The Most Epic Of Geniuses, The Bacchus Among Composers, The Tiger Among Poets, Master Of Music Richard Wagner Editionhttps://youtu.be/iXUjuxF2oIYThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>128696628
Previous: >>128716753
Meyerbeerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmFukZWOUDchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdsx3b3aWTM
Music sucks, but Scriabin is good.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsr1QP39LWo
>Emanuel Bach, Haydn and Mozart had established the structural laws of sonata form for all time. It was the outcome of a compromise which the spirit of German music reached with that of Italian music. It acquired its external character from the way it was used: the pianist used the sonata to present himself to the public in order to delight them with his dexterity and to entertain them agreeably as a musician. We are no longer speaking of Sebastian Bach assembling his congregation in front of the organ in church, or summoning a connoisseur or colleague to a competition; a wide gap separated the wonderful master of fugue from those who cultivated the sonata. They learned the art of fugue as a means of consolidating their musical studies but applied it to the sonata only as a learned device. The raw consequences of pure counterpoint gave place to pleasure in stable eurhythmics: only the completion of its pattern in the sense of Italian euphony appeared to meet the demands of the music.
Schützhttps://youtu.be/ypnjbeinJ5Q
>Under the lead of Italian vocalism, Music had become an art of sheer agreeableness: one thus entirely denied to her the power of giving herself a like significance with the arts of Dante and Michelangelo, and had hence dismissed her, without more ado, to a manifestly lower rank of arts. Wherefore from out great Beethoven there was now to be won a quite new knowledge of her essence; the roots, whence Music had thriven to lust this height and this significance, were to be followed thoughtfully through Bach to Palestrina; and thus there was to be founded a quite other system for judging her aesthetically, than that which took its reckonings from a musical evolution lying far outside these masters' path.
>If we survey the historical progress which music made through Beethoven, we can define it succinctly as the acquisition of a capacity which, it was previously thought, had to be denied to music: it has transcended the aesthetically beautiful and entered the sphere of the sublime. It is liberated from every constriction of conventional forms through the penetration and animation of these forms with the essential spirit of music. This achievement is immediately apparent for all humanity by the character that Beethoven gives to melody (the basis of all music), the character whereby the highest natural simplicity is now regained as the fount from which melody is at all times and in all circumstances renewed and nourished to the highest and richest diversity. We may summarise this in one concept comprehensible to all: through Beethoven melody is freed from the influence of fashion and changing tastes and elevated to the model of the eternally valid and purely human. Beethoven's music will forever be understood whereas the music of his predecessors will for the most part remain comprehensible only when mediated by historical reflection.
>Whoso would seize the wondrous individuality, the strength and meaning of the German spirit in one incomparably speaking image, let him cast a searching glance upon the else so puzzling, wellnigh unaccountable figure of Music's wonder-man Sebastian Bach. He is the history of the German spirit's inmost life throughout the gruesome century of the German Folk's complete extinction. See there that head, insanely muffled in the French full-bottomed wig; behold that master, a wretched organist and cantor, slinking from one Thuringian parish to another, puny places scarcely known to us by name; see him so unheeded, that it required a whole century to drag his works from oblivion; finding even Music pinioned in an art-form the very effigy of his age, dry, stiff, pedantic, like wig and pigtail set to notes: then see what a world the unfathomably great Sebastian built from out these elements! I merely point to that Creation; for it is impossible to denote its wealth, its sublimity, its all-embracing import, through any manner of comparison.
>Mozart’s music and Mozart’s orchestra are a perfect match. An equally perfect balance exists between Palestrina’s choir and Palestrina’s counterpoint, and I find a similar correspondence between Chopin’s piano and some of his etudes and preludes. I don’t care for the lady's Chopin, however. There is too much of the Parisian salon in that; but he has given us many things that are above the salon.
>Mozart is the founder of German declamation. What fine humanity resounds in the priest’s replies to Tomino! Think how stiff such high priests are in Gluck. When you consider that this text, which was meant to be a farce, and the theater for which it was written, then compare what was written before Mozart’s time (even Cimarosa’s still famous Matrimonio Segreto) – on the one side the wretched German Singspiel, on the other, the ornate Italian opera – one is amazed by the soul he managed to breathe into such a text. And what a life he led! A bit of tinsel at the time of his popularity, but for that he had then to play all the more dearly. He did not complete his work, which is why one cannot really compare him with Raphael. For there is still too much convention left in him.
Not enough Wangner
The Overflow Room reviews
now playingstart of Schoenberg: Verklarte Nacht (Transfigured Night) , Op. 4www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPFhhbFA-8s&list=OLAK5uy_lVZemIT4mudvPBSMlQm-TGh7Kdo7WoMKk&index=1start of Dvorak: String Sextet in A Major, Op. 48, B. 80https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6zIHTc_WTk&list=OLAK5uy_lVZemIT4mudvPBSMlQm-TGh7Kdo7WoMKk&index=2https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lVZemIT4mudvPBSMlQm-TGh7Kdo7WoMKk>The Talich Quartet, complemented here by Jiri Najnar and Vaclav Bernasek, illuminate these chamber music gems in brilliant colors. The string sextet version of Schoenberg's Verkleñrte Nacht (Transfigured Night), which is still bound to the late Romanticism, is a true enrichment to the repertoire.
>>128756420Schoenberg's Verklarte Nacht is so fucking good it actually kinda hurts, because it makes you wish he continued composing in this style.
>>128756573There's always his first string quartet.
>>128756578Yes, and Pelleas und Melisande. My love for Schoenberg pretty much ends there though.
I'm gonna walk to the library in the rain to do some reading. What is some essential rainycore? Sibelius, Debussy, Rachmaninoff...?
>>128756603it's even raining on the cover!
>>128754712Poulenc in France, Prokofiev in Russia, Hindemith in Germany, Martinů in Central Europe and a whole generation of mid century composers whose default language was basically neoclassical. It wasn't about one or two stars but about the sheer number of composers writing in that style. And yes, Stravinsky was absolutely the central figure (he set the aesthetic vocabulary everyone else reacted to) but the popularity of neoclassicism came from its breadth, not from him alone.>>128754786See above. Neoclassicism was the mainstream, not fucking Boulez. He may have pushed serialism, but audiences and most composers did NOT follow. Darmstadt was a fashionable cult among the avant-garde, not the mainstream.
quick, rough Schubert top 10:symphony 9string quartet 13string quartet 14string quartet 15string quintetpiano sonata 19, d. 958piano sonata 20, d. 959piano sonata 21, d. 960mass no. 2impromptus, d. 899sad no Symphony 8 or Klavierstucke, D. 946 or Piano Trios, or, as I know some anons will complain, no Winterreise
>>128756865FUCK I forgot the Piano Quintet, "Trout"Cut the Mass No. 2 then, damn...
>>128756573Too much chromatic sludge for me. I prefer his early atonal stuff to that any day.>>128756865Further proof that D934 is underrated.
>>128756861The academy is much more important in defining in what's regarded as significant music than the ambiguously defined 'mainstream' for a style that has generally been marginal in the 20th century. Even composers like Takemitsu, Ligeti, Berio, Penderecki, Gorecki who moved away from seralism were still engaged with it to greater or lesser extent out of necessity. For every non-serial neoromantic or post-tonal neoclassical composer there are plenty of Nonos and Norgards. In any case the original post you responded to was not making claims about the tastes of audiences but about the general direction of classical towards academic fashions.
Would any of you guys be interested in an ongoing discussion group? We listen to one piece a day and have an optional ballet and an opera each week?
>>128756972>Too much chromatic sludge for me. I prefer his early atonal stuff to that any day.I don't think I've read anything this stupid here. Atonal stuff is fully chromatic, it doesn't get more chromatic sludgey than that
>>128757219Sure. Where/how?
>>128757274I think he's talking about chromatic voice-leading/part writing vs disconnected series of tones and chords.
>>128757219yes, if we use tripcodes.
>>128757289We can have a running discussion in these threads. I don't mind getting the wheel going, I just want to gauge interest before setting something up
>>12875731912 tone technique is chromatic voice leading and part-writing. Just retarded version of it, for retards.
>>128757341Sure, I had a similar idea for a while. It'd be like going to a concert together lol. I usually ignore most music posted here, I imagine that's the case for all of us, would be nice if we were to listen to the same piece, even if boringly shitty. Let's just not go beyond post-romanticism or before baroque.Anyway I'm off to bed now, see ya.
>>128757274I don't consider the early atonal works from him to be sludgey. They're quite a bit less meandering and are over with quickly as well
>>128757345are you implying Schoenberg became retarded?
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEEyN-kGM0I
>>128757329Just like old /classical/
Josquinhttps://youtu.be/1HxLzIfaOz0
>>128756865The goat lieder composer has to have some lieder in his top ten
>>128757788Lieder just has a lower peak altogether is the problem.
>>128756972>Further proof that D934 is underrated.Maybe if I had made a top 20. Then I'd get to include the Wanderer Fantasy too, which is the first Schubert piece I ever heard, one I immediately fell in love with.
what was classical called when it was new?
>>128755025Best Saint-Saëns Cello Concertos?
>>128757987Wagner.
>>128756573Try his Pelleas and Melisandre.
>>128758138see >>128756589
>>128757219I'm game.>>128758148Wrote that before I scrolled to >>128756589.
>>128758121Like, recording? There's a lot of great recordings with bigname performers of just the first one, but if you specifically want a recording with both, I'd recommend this one,>Here's a logical and, believe it or not, rare coupling. Saint-Saëns wrote two excellent cello concertos, and you would think that they would be featured together on more recordings. Instead, we usually get the far less musically rewarding "Lalo" Concerto, and listeners are robbed of the chance to make the acquaintance of the Concerto No. 2, which deserves to be much better known. Maria Kliegel is a very fine cellist--as good as anyone out there on any given day--and she has made a lovely series of recordings for Naxos. This is one of the best, a totally enjoyable romp through Saint-Saëns's typically French combination of formal sophistication and polish. --David Hurwitzhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBPxo_fAlPc&list=OLAK5uy_n6xzS9Y3xfR2uae6hWrvyDhMcqRL6DorA&index=1Truls Mork/Neeme Jarvi also have a recording of both but I haven't heard it. I should get on that.Standalone of the first? Like I said, a lot of big-names recorded it, from Du Pre to Starker to Rostropovich to Yo-Yo Ma, but I'd personally recommend Maisky,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tupNP3_yJ4k&list=OLAK5uy_mZhIYI31DhjiT0PBhDOf286joKqiS8oow&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8wesoupWMg
>>128758222Thank you. I don't care if both are the same recording, just wanted to hear both his Cello concertos. Maisky recording is great!
>>128757987Gallant
Is Bryn Terfel a good singer? Is he still? He's 60 years old and I have an opportunity to hear him.
>>128757289>>128757329>>128757392Okay guys, my plan is this, and you can tell me if it seems to your mind to be the best oneWe listen to Bach's oeuvre, order by BWV since that would make it simple. One work a dau, starting with BWV 1, "Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern"For the opera this week, for something equally ambitious I figure Das Rheingold. And another installment of the cycle every weekFor the ballet, I reckon the ballet film Young Men. If you don't have a streaming service, it's available for free herehttps://videotanz.ru/dance/young-men-the-movie/I chose this ballet because it's about WWI and this is a cinematic adaptation, so it is a very accessible entry point for men who don't otherwise watch balletTo keep track of what work is currently on the program, the channel performance-art on the Criterion Club server is open to youhttps://discord.gg/XhFGx57VKm
>>128760142I'm just going to be asking people to explain the music to me every day.
>>128760174People are good for something after all
>>128760142good idea regarding the BWV but I suggest starting on the 1st of January.
>>128760358That's more workable because people tend to be busy this time of year--but the thing is Bach's corpus is extensive enough that at one piece a day it would take us over three years to finish anyhow. Does it make sense to put off considering that?
>>128760391I just think you should start on the 1st of Jan so that the more irregular posters who have actual lives can easily keep track. I look forward to discussing Bach's musical offering in the 3rd year.
>>128760142But which recordings would we listen to? If everyone listens to a different recording wouldn't it defeat the point?
>>128760451Would you rather, then, until the end of December, which listen to Fredmans epistlar?>>128760496The works are short enough that I generally listen to multiple recordings. Do you think I should set a group recording, and then you can listen to others as well if you prefer?
>>128758628Happy to help :)
Szell is the best conductor
>>128760570>The works are short enough that I generally listen to multiple recordings.You listen to Das Rheingold multiple times in a week?>Do you think I should set a group recording, and then you can listen to others as well if you prefer?I think that would be the best. Obv people could recommend recordings.
>>128757219>>128760142I guess I'll be the one naysayer to give some balance: I suppose I just don't see the point. Reading a book or watching a film together with 4chan anons, great, I get it and love it, but listening to music together seems a bit pointless. A) music is one of those things where people only listen to what they're in the mood for at any given time, why listen to what someone else proscribes when I wanna listen to something else? and B) even if one participates, so what? it simply ends with either a "i liked it" or "i didn't like it", so the group experience seems pointlessBut maybe that's just me
>>128760142>We listen to Bach's oeuvre, order by BWV since that would make it simple. One work a dau, starting with BWV 1Hard pass. I'm not ever going to torture myself listening to the entire Bach oeuvre. Good luck though.
>>128761335When you go to a concert, do you choose the program? Did people in the past have any choice what to listen to at all?I think the idea is great, but listening to Bach every day sounds nauseating already. I'd rather listen to Handel or Scarlatti. Even then, I don't see the point of binging an entire oeuvre while pretty much every composer has about 90% junk and 10% worthwhile music (except if it's one's favorite composer I guess lol)
For me, it's Beethoven's 22nd piano sonatahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvDiB2fKsac
>""Property" is practically held to be more sacred than religion in our state-run society: for offence against the latter there is lenience, for damage to the former no forgiveness. Since property is deemed the foundation of our entire existence as a society, it seems all the more destructive that we do not all own property, and that the greatest part of society even comes disinherited into the world. Society is thus manifestly reduced by its own principle to such a state of dangerous discontent, that it is forced to estimate all its laws to the impossibly of settling this antagonism. Protection of property, in its widest universal legal sense — what armed force is selectively maintained for — can truly mean nothing else than a defence of the Haves [Besitzenden] against the Have-Nots [Nichtbesitzenden]. As many serious and keen calculating minds have applied themselves to the study of the problem before us, a solution to this — the final one perhaps being an equal distribution of all property — is something nobody has wished to bring to fruition [glücken wollen]; and it seems as if, through state exploitation of an apparently so simple a concept as property, a stake had been driven into the body of mankind that makes it waste away from the misery of a painful illness."
>"Clever though be the many thoughts expressed by mouth or pen about the invention of money and its enormous value as a civiliser, against such praises should be set the curse to which it has always been doomed in song and legend. If gold here figures as the demon strangling manhood's innocence, our greatest poet shews at last the goblin's game of paper money. The Nibelung's fateful ring become a pocket-book, might well complete the eerie picture of the spectral world-controller. By the advocates of our Progressive Civilisation this rulership is indeed regarded as a spiritual, nay, a moral power; for vanished Faith is now replaced by "Credit," that fiction of our mutual honesty kept upright by the most elaborate safeguards against loss and trickery. What comes to pass beneath the benedictions of this Credit we now are witnessing, and seem inclined to lay all blame upon the Jews."
>>128761335>it simply ends with either a "i liked it" or "i didn't like it", so the group experience seems pointlessYou could say the exact same thing about books and films.
Wagner is salvation.
>>128761411Well, you do generally know what piece you're going to see. Even then, that's a live concert. Just because I'll listen to classical radio when I don't have a choice doesn't mean I listen to it at home, if you get my analogy. But hey, if anons are interested then fine, I just hate to see someone try and then not have anyone show up, that would break my heart the most.>>128761891There's content and themes. But maybe I'm biased because I don't find talking about musical form that interesting.
>>128761899>There's content and themes.Just like in music...>But maybe I'm biased because I don't find talking about musical form that interesting.Yeah definitely sounds like a (you) problem. You can't even talk about instrumentation you like?
Wagner was here before the river and the trees; Wagner remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrNjANeC5e4
>>128761904>You can't even talk about instrumentation you like?That still boils down to "that part sounded good. this part I wasn't crazy about. the finale was intense!" etc
Wagner is damnation.
>piano sonata no. 5>piano sonata no. 6>piano sonata no. 7>piano sonata no. 8>piano sonata no. 9>piano sonata no. 19>piano sonata no. 20>piano sonata no. 10>piano sonata no. 11>...tiredpepe.jpgI get it, it was the only way to make it fit on X amount of CDs without having to include another one, but goddamn is it annoying
>>128761914>That still boils down to "that part sounded good. this part I wasn't crazy about. the finale was intense!" etcNo, it really doesn't. It boils down to objectively observable skill and originality.
Official list of decent - good composers (if you think of a popular composer who didn't end up here, chances are they are shit):>Machaut, Dufay, Ockeghem, Brumel, Marenzio, Josquin, Gesualdo, Sheppard, Monteverdi, Buxtehude, Vivaldi, Handel, Bach, Haydn, Pergolesi, Krauss, Mozart, Schubert, Beethoven, Rossini, Wagner, Brahms, Liszt, Strauss, Mahler, Dvorak, Chopin, Debussy, Ravel, Rimsky-Korsakov, Janacek, Faure, Varese, Hindemith, Bartok, Scriabin, Grieg, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Szymanowski, Stravinsky, Villa-Lobos, and Busoni.
>>128760128No answer?
>>128762305It's missing Scarlatti and Weber.
>managed to accurately plot out the chords and melody of a piece after hearing it once this morningi feel like such a fucking big dick chad right now, if only girls were watching
>>128762305>singlehandedly mogs the entire musical output on the listKneel before the big 4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCDUfNFGC6E
Nielsenhttps://youtu.be/zVuG2VNBwbg
Is Strauss really the only composer to come close to recreating Mozartian opera? It doesn't seem like anyone else tried.
>Certain nights I would go leaden with dread because I could hear the chamber music tuning up, tuning up and near to pitch. (Yes, murder sounds like a symphony in your head, and suicide is a pure quartet).---- Normal Mailer, "An American Dreamtru?something I read the other week and meant to post
>>128761237Oh Das Rheingold. No, I don't but I use a streaming service to watch opera. I'm open to any recommendation on this though >>128761335*prescribesQuite distinct wordsThere is absolutely no reason you can't listen to something else too. Except for operas and some ballet, compositions are almost always much shorter than a film though, and certainly much shorter than a book. This is probably the least demanding next to a painting enjoyment group You should consider music appreciation videos or books because classical compositions can be very complex forms of expression and even a particular rendition or interpretation of a work can have much said about it in its own right >>128761411Bach is definitely not 90% junk, and that isn't binging (enjoying things back to back). As for the point of listening to works by the same composer so extensively, it's because one more greatly appreciated their unique voice and the context of their works within that. Just as having seen many paintings by Van Gogh or Da Vinci, or having read many works by Shakespeare, allows us to better appreciate each one
>>128764011>Bach is definitely not 90% junkI did say if it is one's favorite composer it doesn't apply. Of course 90% of Bach is junk, nobody cares and nobody listens to it except hardcore Bach fans. Even then, people stick with their favorites more often than not. >and that isn't bingingDid you not suggest listening to each BWV which would take 3 years? Because that's binging.Anyway, good luck with that, bu I'm telling you the ugly truth, people won't care. Here especially.
Disliking Bach is a sign of low musical intelligence.There's a reason why every major composer for the past few hundreds years has absolutely adored Bach and been deeply inspired by his work. And that reason is because the music that Bach created was simply brilliant.If you don't Iove the baroque style compared to later styles thats one thing. But you have to respect the ingenious of Bach's work.Disliking Bach is like disliking Shakespeare or Isaac Newton. It comes off as ignorant.
>>128764364>appeal to authority>strawmanGot any more of yer low IQ logical fallacies, simpleton?
>Johann Sebastian Bach has done everything completely. … He was a man through and through.Schubert>Now there is music from which a man can learn something.Mozart>Bach is like an astronomer who, with the help of ciphers, finds the most wonderful stars.Chopin>The immortal God of harmony ... Not Brook but Ocean should be his name.Beethoven>And if we look at the works of JS Bach - a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity - on each page we discover things which we thought were born only yesterday, from delightful arabesques to an overflowing of religious feeling greater than anything we have since discovered. And in his works we will search in vain for anything the least lacking in good taste.Debussy>...the greatest Christian music in the world...if life had taken hope and faith from me, this single chorus would restore all.Mendelssohn>Music owes as much to Bach as religion to its founder.Schumann>...the most stupendous miracle in all music!Wagner>Study Bach. There you will find everything.Brahms>In Bach, the vital cells of music are united as the world is in God.Mahler>It may well be that some composers do not believe in God. All of them, however, believe in Bach.Bartók>I had no idea of the historical evolution of the civilized world's music and had not realized that all modern music owes everything to Bach.Rimsky-Korsakov>There is one God - Bach - and Mendelssohn is his prophetBerlioz>What gives Sebastian Bach and Mozart a place apart is that these two great expressive composers never sacrificed form to expression. As high as their expresson may soar, their musical form remains supreme and all-sufficient.Saint-Saens>If one were asked to name one musician who came closest to composing without human flaw, I suppose general consensus would choose Johann Sebastian BachCopland>Any musician, even the most gifted, takes a place second to Bach's at the very start.Hindemith
>>128764392
>>128764329>Of course 90% of Bach is junkNta but applying this as a universal rule is incredibly stupid because Bach is one of the rare exceptions, by the nature of his music and his process of composition, where pretty much all of his music is good, and a lot of it great, albeit very far below his peak as a composer. I've never listened to a single Bach contata that was junk, because he treated them like a master craftsman treats his products, also pumping out something of high value although not necessarily original.
Mendelssohnhttps://youtu.be/IXooZzrVr54
>>128764423There are no exceptions. Junk is anything that doesn't meet the high standards. You might like every Bach cantata, that doesn't make them equally good or any good at all really. I'm only making a single relevant point here: people won't sit down and listen to 1500 something pieces of the same style and the same composer each day for 3 years. You're welcome to try, disagree or whatever the hell you want, but I'm making a comment that the OP might find useful. That's all, no need to chimpout over nothing.
Why do you hate waltz? It's lovely.DUNCHING CHINGDUN CHING CHING
>>128764536Who tf hates waltz? Most people love it
>>128764504Anon, you're being very contradictory. You're not just being useful, if you were just pointing out that no one wants to listen to all of Bach's works because they're repetitive that would be one thing, but you're arbitrarily claiming that they don't meet 'high standards' when everyone who knows them will tell you that they do. Of course they're 'good'. You should just stick to giving simple advice, not casting judgement on the entire oeuvre of a composer. You're being hubristic.
>>128764590>when everyone who knows them will tell you that they do.Who is 'everyone'? I know them well and I will tell you that they don't. Do you want me to name someone else who will say the same? How will that change anything? Just because someone or group of people say something is true it doesn't make something true. >not casting judgement on the entire oeuvre of a composer. No, I said it applies to every composer, and I stand by my statement. You're a crybaby pussy and took it close to the heart.
>>128764329Bach isn't my favorite composer tho. My favorite composer is Vivaldi followed by Mozart. Bach is still undisputably a genius and calling 90% of his output junk is like saying 90% of Michelangelo's or Shakespeare's output is junk. If you don't enjoy baroque music very much then you might not like 90% of his work but that's because of your personal tastes, not because Bach mostly produced slopBinging has nothing to do with the time. Having a drink a day for three years isn't binge drinking.
>>128764690>you might not like 90% of his work but that's because of your personal tastes,Correction: you might like any % of his work, but thar's because of your personal tastes. Now calm down, this discussion won't go anywhere.
>>128764729It's not just a matter of taste, it has to do with the quality of the work. For example I don't have to care for miniatures to acknowledge the quality of elegant and intricately carved miniatures
Uh guys, why are these threads missing the greatest composer of all time (Tchaikovsky)? 1812, Swan Lake, Capriccio Italien, Marche Slave, The Nutcracker, all so grandiose they make me cry every time I hear them. Mahlers 6th can't compare. Wagner is a child before him.
>>128764748>it has to do with the quality of the work.Some qualities can be more or less assessed objectively, such as voice leading, counterpoint, harmony. Others much less, such as melody, structure, timbre etc. Therefore an overall "quality" is a delusion, and is indeed a matter of taste.
Tchaikovsky is sentimenal kitsch.
>>128765107Disliking Tchaikovsky is a sign of low musical intelligence.
>>128765107obviously>>128765179you wish
>>128764011>*prescribes>>Quite distinct words;o -> >:(
>>128764404the "authority" in this case being "every great composer who ever lived"
>>128765680a.k.a. authority thus logical fallacy
>>128761940it's highly subjective and no one can say anything and expect to be taken seriously, not even academics. attempts at picking apart the music theory is for content slop youtubers who can name just a handful of things that the composer did and not delve deeper into it. emotional themes are subjective. do you consider the mahler 9 anon to be a troll or can you say anything about mahler 9 that makes it objectively a genius composition that stands out from the rest of bach, beethoven, etc?
>>128765656No, it's the truth, you have low musical intelligence.
>everything is just, like, your opinion, man
now playingstart of Schubert: Violin Sonata in D Major "Sonatina", D. 384https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmws6ceLeVg&list=OLAK5uy_n49UiXUXZcSDyAPSbxBEAJeLXoLgCidak&index=2start of Schubert: Violin Sonata in A Minor "Sonatina", D. 385https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EdJA3zkVOY&list=OLAK5uy_n49UiXUXZcSDyAPSbxBEAJeLXoLgCidak&index=5start of Schubert: Violin Sonata in G Minor "Sonatina", D. 408https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i464eID5ErU&list=OLAK5uy_n49UiXUXZcSDyAPSbxBEAJeLXoLgCidak&index=9start of Schubert: Violin Sonata in A Major "Duo", D. 574https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56BOxloPORk&list=OLAK5uy_n49UiXUXZcSDyAPSbxBEAJeLXoLgCidak&index=13Schubert: Rondo in B Minor, D. 895 "Rondeau brillant"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkOoKOUFFrU&list=OLAK5uy_n49UiXUXZcSDyAPSbxBEAJeLXoLgCidak&index=17start of Schubert: Fantasy in C Major, D. 934https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbYH7yL6uao&list=OLAK5uy_n49UiXUXZcSDyAPSbxBEAJeLXoLgCidak&index=18https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n49UiXUXZcSDyAPSbxBEAJeLXoLgCidakThere are three essential sets of Schubert's violin works: Kremer's, Julia Fischer/Helmchen, and this one. And you can't ever go wrong with Ibragimova.
>>128765729Correct.
Andras Schiff's Beethoven is deeply British, Francois Guy's is deeply French, and Rudolf Buchbinder's is deeply German.no I won't explain what I mean and why, if you listen to their performances it should be immediately obvious.
>>128766190
Piernéhttps://youtu.be/aLQQ3WyKhAU
>>128766221If there can be novels and films and paintings which capture the ethos of a culture and people, why can't the performance and interpretation of music? People here always get upset when I say this, yet I read people on other sites refer to particular performances as, for example, "very French" all the time.
Music Chat: Has Bruckner Fever Run Its Course?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rs0jCQp_FM
>>128766275NTA, but I find gestures towards a national character a pretty unhelpful and imprecise way to describe most art and entertainment, including novels, films, etc.
>>128766318I won't deny imprecise but I do reject unhelpful in addition to meaningless
>>128766370It is unhelpful unless supplemented by precise detail. It's not wholly inaccurate or meaningless, in that local schools and fashions are often relevant to the character of some work or another, but invoking national character as a descriptor of music and poetry can quickly devolve into popular clichés and hoary constructs of the nineteenth century.
Who is the absolute GOAT and why is it Frédéric fucking Chopin?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54A9A--ED90
>>128766814thank you grandma Gertrude
>>128766221the only sensible reaction to that, lmao
>Tippett's Symphony No. 3I don't get it
Any music theory nerds care to explain what makes Japanese music have that distinct wistful melancholic quality to it that makes your mind conjure up images of cherry blossoms whenever you hear it?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x2KyAWNMsU
>>128767960Music theory is only for content slop youtubers. Didn't you get the memo?
>>128762305Pretty ambitious to put CPE Bach in there.>>128762343This. Omitting Scarlatti is nonsense.
>>128767960I think the pitch class set 0157 is what you're looking for. It points towards the minor key and its sonority is open yet mysterious owing to the prevalence of both perfect 5ths and tritones respectfully (p2msdt2).
The true successor to Beethoven was neither the Wagner/Liszt faction nor the Brahms/Schumann faction.The true successor to Beethoven is the only composer who correctly identified the most important part of Beethoven's best symphony and spent the rest of his career trying to improve it.Yes, the true successor to Beethoven is bird man Messiaen, who brought the bird calls from the Pastoral symphony to their limit.
>>128768207Beethoven's successor was Mahler.
>>128768207>>128768272No one cares. Romantics were better than anyone before or after.
>>128768207Based also by this logic the current Beethoven is Takashi Yoshimatsu
>>128768207schizophrenically based
now playingstart of Leo Ornstein: A Morning in the Woodshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBe2tmq7CQQ&list=OLAK5uy_nw_0YE6KfRbE_hjDqpYQlw66sXi7FJwgI&index=2start of Leo Ornstein: Piano Sonata No. 4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M7jPdFqp6w&list=OLAK5uy_nw_0YE6KfRbE_hjDqpYQlw66sXi7FJwgI&index=4start of Leo Ornstein: Piano Sonata No. 7https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTu4bO6faME&list=OLAK5uy_nw_0YE6KfRbE_hjDqpYQlw66sXi7FJwgI&index=9https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nw_0YE6KfRbE_hjDqpYQlw66sXi7FJwgI>Leo Ornstein, who died in 2002 at the approximate age of 110(!), was a notorious wild man in his early years. The inclusion of three of his early pieces, including such titles as Danse Sauvage and Suicide in an Airplane (both from 1913), show where he got his reputation. But there is much more to Ornstein's story than the mad dissonance of his early works. He was a highly accomplished pianist (his only recordings are acoustic 78s of Chopin) and an excellent teacher, and he wrote in a wide variety of styles, sometimes simultaneously. This disc begins with a breathtakingly lovely piece of impressionism from 1971, A Morning in the Woods, and includes two large-scale piano sonatas with many impressive aspects, one from 1924, the other from 1988. Pianist Janice Weber, who is also a successful novelist, seems to specialize in super-virtuosic music, and she is fully up to the challenges of Ornstein's most difficult writing. For its demonstration of the variety of Ornstein's work, its quality of performance, its realistic sound, and even its outstanding booklet, this disc deserves an enthusiastic recommendation. --Leslie GerberWhat a gap in these two compositions -- 1924 and 1988!
Now playing Three Nocturnes for Piano Op.20 by Giovanni Sgambati. Cozyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo98IX0OH2A
What is it about most post-romanticism that makes it sound so derivative and sloppy, whereas most romanticism sounds timeless? Is it quality of composers or is it demonstrative of romanticism being a dead-end?
>>128769470Very nice. I should try and see if there's a list of every Nocturne composed. It seems to be a genre/form which, more often than not, delivers.
>>128769495Depends on what you mean by 'post-romanticism'. If you mean Howard Hanson, then yeah, he is just kind of mediocre. If you mean Sibelius, it's only half-Romanticism anyway. On the other hand, Medtner was indisputably Romantic, writing well past the point when Romanticism was fashionable, and he's a great composer. It's mostly just that you're drawing from a smaller pool of composers who would be self-consciously writing in an older style increasingly regarded as fusty. Worth remembering that Bach himself could be accused of this.
>>128769571Found it on this record. 11 CDs.
>>128769647Thank you.
>>128769617You have a point. In my mind, a lot of the good post-romantic composers had blends of modernism (eg Sibelius), but it's possible I'm selectively and incorrectly separating the good composers from the not. For the record, yeah, I was thinking of the likes of Hanson and Langgaard.
>>128769617This is the first time I've ever seen the word fusty.
>>128770022it's a perfectly cromulent word.
Drank some melatonin tea, what to listen to while falling asleep tonight... Ravel? Bach's Art of Fugue or Goldberg Variations? Some cello work? decisions decisions
Konstantin Lifschitz’s Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3r58VS4wwQ&list=OLAK5uy_n8Fwtb3obEv5yb8CgTJqtyIO7QQUhdq3M&index=1>Not since Glenn Gould's debut recordings has a young pianist tackled this challenging work with similar executional ease and unbridled joy. Konstantin Lifschitz blends heart, mind, and fingers in a way that makes Bach's textural complexities clear with a minimum of fuss. What marvelous music-making, and to think the pianist was sixteen when he recorded this! Lifschitz observes all the repeats. --Jed Distler
>>128768100Pitch class set 0157 (0-1-5-7, or C-C#-F-G in C) isn't a standard named Japanese scale/mode but represents intervals common in Japanese music: a minor second (0-1), a perfect fourth (0-5), a perfect fifth (0-7), and a minor third (1-5, 0-4 is common, 1-4), often found in modes like In-sen or Yo-sen (pentatonics), especially in modern compositions by artists like Takemitsu exploring traditional Japanese scales and Western harmony. Composers use these cells for konketsu ()Japanese concept in music. How 0157 relates to Japanese Music:>Pentatonic Roots:Traditional Japanese scales (like In or Yo) are pentatonic (5-note), using intervals like perfect fourths, fifths, and minor seconds, which 0157 contains.>Specific Intervals:0-1 (Minor Second): Crucial for tension and melodic movement in traditional music, appearing often.0-5 (Perfect Fourth) & 0-7 (Perfect Fifth): Foundational intervals in Japanese scales, defining their characteristic sound.1-5 (Minor Third): Creates the distinctive "bent" sound in scales like Hirajōshi.>Modern Composition:Composers like Tōru Takemitsu, Minoru Miki, and Serena Yang blend these traditional cells (like 0157) with Western harmony, creating unique sounds that acknowledge both traditions.>Nuclear Tones:The prominence of certain pitches (nuclear tones, kakuon) in Japanese music means these intervals often highlight those core notes, say from C to F (0-5) or C to G (0-7). So, while not a formal name, 0157 embodies the interval relationships and building blocks found when Japanese traditional scales meet modern compositional techniques.
Wagner sucks cock.
>>128772530basedimagine thinking mahler and wagner are top tier genius composers
>>128772656Mahler is. Wagner is close, but not really on the top.
https://youtu.be/cVncQFQIul8?t=73This part here is the reason why Wagner surpasses every musical composer in existence. It is the reason as to why Nietzsche called Wagner a sickness that had infected and changed music for the better or worse. Exactly at 1:10 I started unconsciously masturbating till the end as I delved into the madness of Alberich (one who sacrificed love for power). This is a power leitmotif, power that only comes when you sacrificed your soul to the devil. Imagine my surprise when it was Wagner who created leitmotifs in the first place itself.Truly the greatest composer that ever graced our shithole of an earth. We as humans should start conducting pilgrimages in the name of Wagner. There should be a church specifically dedicated to Wagner and Wagnerian religion.
>>128772341posters who use chatgpt should be permabanned.
>>128762397good, goodshit, great3/4
>>128772814Incorrect. They are all great. Also, filtered by the GOAT himself.
Daily reminder that Mozart was gay.
>128772977(you)
>>128772977More like Moshart
>>128773029say that to my face and I will massacre you.
>>128773075Stop worshipping shit-tier pop music composers
>>128773007It's the truth.
>>128773098The simplicity (or "popularity") of Mozart's music is a hard won simplicity that takes genius to achieve. now go and be a contrarian loser somewhere else.
>Repetitive music has often been negatively linked with Freudian thanatos. Theodor Adorno (1948, p. 178) provides an example in his criticism of Igor Stravinsky, whose, "rhythmic procedures ostinato closely resemble the schema of catatonic conditions. In certain schizophrenics, the process by which the motor apparatus becomes independent leads to infinite repetition of gestures or words, following the decay of the ego.
>>128773127Adorno is Schoenberg for retards and Marxists, but I repeat myself.
>>128773125LMAO. Any halfwit can "compose" moshart's lullabies, dork
>>128773187I should add that it's perfectly okay not to "get" Mozart immediately. I'm not trying to shame anyone for being under informed, because nobody starts out knowing anything. My condescension is only directed at those arrogant plebs who, upon listening to and not enjoying some music by one of the most scholarly acclaimed musical geniuses of all time, immediately leap to the conclusion that _Mozart_ must be the weak link in the chain, and not their dumbass ears.
>>128773226>y-y-you must be informed!>moshart good. s-scholars said so!Pathetic.
He was the greatest gay composer. Prove me wrong.
>>128773267Tchaikovsky, Chopin, Schubert, Lully, etc
>>128773226>My condescension is only directed at those arrogant plebs who, upon listening to and not enjoying some music by one of ... musical geniuses of all time, And yet you're defending Mozart, and not Rachmaninoff who was as much of a genius as the former and was called shitty a post above (as opposed to Mozart being called 'gay' which isn't even an insult lol) You like trends, popularity, historical context, not the content of music itself.>inb4 you actually try to justify the cognitive dissonance with a logically inconsistent essay
>>128773267No. That would be Saint-Saens.
>>128773322Both composers are for kids who can't handle dissonance
>>128773226>I should add that it's perfectly okay not to "get" Mozart immediately. I'm not trying to shame anyone for being under informed, because nobody starts out knowing anything. My condescension is only directed at those arrogant plebs who, upon listening to and not enjoying some music by one of the most scholarly acclaimed musical geniuses of all time, immediately leap to the conclusion that _Mozart_ must be the weak link in the chain, and not their dumbass ears.
Wagner raped your mind.
>>128773267ravel, stravinsky, wagner
>Spoke with R. about Mendelssohn. Comparison to a crystal: the Hebrides. Overture so clear, so smooth, so melodious, as definite in form as a crystal, but also just as cold; such an enormous talent as Mendelssohn’s is frightening, it has no place in the development of our music. A landscape painter, incapable of depicting a human being.
Scherzo no.3 analysishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W5H2Sqa-ZQThis one's quite interesting.
>>128773998buy an ad, cock sucker.
I like serialism.Helps me calm down when I'm having an autistic break.
>>128773127Adorno could have been a worthwile philosopher if only he managed to tone down his jewish resentment.
>>128774162Give me a link of your favorite tone rowOptionally, explain what you like about the tone row
The Romantic, Classical, Renaissance (sacred music) and modern eras are all degenerate as they often attempt incorporating non-musical elements in music. Opera is a degenerate genre which could only be explained by the lack of taste found in Italy. The only relevant music ever composed for its musical value was chamber music without titles, most baroque and classical music without titles.The ultimate musical degeneracy is clearly Mahler's symphonies and Impressionism, they were manifestations of the ineluctable abasement and prostitution of music. Beethoven's fifth could be considered as one of the first examples of this, although against the composer's intention, but rather because of philistines associating extra-musical ideas to said symphony, such as "fate knocking on the door" or similar retarded shit. Attempts at incorporating anything non-musical in music outside of Overtures and Opera is degeneracy. Most of said degeneracy originated in Germany, due to retarded romantic ideals; Wagner and Liszt would thus be the supreme degenerates of classical music.Chopin always looked at composers nicknaming pieces and doing similar things in contempt; he was right: Chopin was the last composer to walk this earth, before German degeneracy wiped music away and replaced it with effeminate, extra-musical ramblings, sold to dumb masses as "Zukunftsmusik", which should have been named "Unschicklichmusik".
>>128774175Adorno was literally retarded and he didn't understand anything he wrote about. with that said, I do use Adorno's writings as toilet paper while reading Schoenberg.
>>128774203>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B7WSKZ63UrE&pp=ygUYR29leXZhZXJ0cyBjb21wb3NpdGlvbiA3Karel Goeyvaerts - Composition no. 7
>>128774214>SchoenbergWhat can I expect reading him? What do I read?
Bartókhttps://youtu.be/uGuE20hKaDw
>>128774203my favorite is 71409362T5E8.
https://youtu.be/2_LhhoYvQ6E
>>128774278start with the theory of harmony and then read his book on composition.
>>128774299thanks. I will whistle it on my mail route.
>>128774324y tho
>>128774348If you have to ask you'll never know.
>>128774346kek, nice to see someone else make this joke
Heard the postman whistling Messiaen today(!)or was it birds
>>128774265It sounds shittier than expected. I'm surprised, I don't think there's even a coherent tone row there. Good job, anon.>>128774299I said gimme a link, autistic kraut
https://youtu.be/8CpRGGAdZDI
>>128774385just play the following on a keyboard/piano:G - Db - E - C - A - Eb - F# - D - Bb - F - Ab - B -(it's one of Rautavaara's btw.)
HOW LOUD SHOULD IT BE??>100WagnerBerg>90-99BartokXenakisStravinskyBeethoven>80-89MozartShostakovichSchoenbergVivaldiVerdiMontiverdi>60-79ScelsiFerneyhoughWebernSchubertGesualdoSchumannMahlerBrucknerHaydn>40-59JSBachSchnittkeBrahmsSaint SaensDebussy>20-39RavelChopinBoulez>1-5FeldmanSatie>0CageNancarrowGriseyRileyPartLisztTchaikovsky
>>128774593This, but the exact opposite
now playingstart of Villa-Lobos: String Quartet No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eULyHBMGtlA&list=OLAK5uy_nFHe64AhvoTIXYd8pMRqrqq5UOXDxuf_U&index=36start of Villa-Lobos: String Quartet No. 12https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuTX0yve7A&list=OLAK5uy_nFHe64AhvoTIXYd8pMRqrqq5UOXDxuf_U&index=40start of Villa-Lobos: String Quartet No. 16https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWivK7RO6W8&list=OLAK5uy_nFHe64AhvoTIXYd8pMRqrqq5UOXDxuf_U&index=44start of Villa-Lobos: String Quartet No. 5https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6acm5-dVwIM&list=OLAK5uy_nFHe64AhvoTIXYd8pMRqrqq5UOXDxuf_U&index=47https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nFHe64AhvoTIXYd8pMRqrqq5UOXDxuf_U
>Son arrested after Grammy-nominated singer Jubilant Sykes stabbed to death at California homehttps://edition.cnn.com/2025/12/10/entertainment/jubilant-sykes-murdered-son-arrested-hnk>Jubilant Sykes was nominated for best classical album at the 2010 Grammy Awards for “Bernstein: Mass,” in which he performed the Celebrant role.>He appeared in the 1990 Metropolitan Opera production of “The Gershwin’s Porgy and Bess” in the role of Jake.>A Los Angeles native, Sykes was a baritone who was praised as charismatic in a 2008 New York Times review of “Mass.”>He told NPR in 2002 that he felt comfortable singing every genre of music, from pop to opera.>“My singing is like breathing — it’s an extension of me. I don’t think of it is extraordinary. It’s my passion,” he told NPR in a 2002 interview.>Sykes was artistic advisor for Orchestra Santa Monica, and he sang in and narrated some of the group’s performances, the organization said in a statement.>“Jubilant was a true inspiration—his artistry, generosity, and kindness touched countless lives,” said Roger Kalia, Orchestra Santa Monica’s music director.Damn. Anyone here familiar with or a fan of this baritone?
ChoFan/RachAnon, what do you think of Leo Ornstein? see: >>128769341
>>128773998dope, thank you, love this kind of stuff. I'd prefer if it were a written article as opposed to a video, but such is our contemporary digital age.>>128774139stop being so negative, vicious, and malcontent.
I love Beethoven's piano sonatas so much. I could happily listen to them everyday for the rest of my life if I were limited to a single set of works, and not only would I be immune to ever growing tired of their breadth of emotions, quite opposite my love would only continue to grow with each listen as I became more and more familiar with every facet of their genius and note of their musical architecture.
>>128774638cope HOW MANY so many books still name Wagner as recordings HAVE YOU LISTENED The fact that SHITEATING seething coping piece of dry CUM, Classical critics are often SHITEATING seething and Hopefully, one not-too-distant day, seed when FUCK YOU IF YOU DON'T LIKE off Les Troyens buttfucks WAGNER YOU'RE A KEK to cope HOW This is the sad status of criticism: HOW CAN YOU HAVE AN OPINION shut the FUCK up coping you fucking schizo HAVE YOU LISTENED "the greatest or most significant or most influential" composer ever only tells you how far Gesamtkunstwerk still is from becoming a serious art. Critics have MANY recordings long recognized that are Offenbach and Verdi, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. totally ignorant of the music of the past, they barely know the romantics. No wonder they will think that Wagner did anything worthy of being saved. In a sense, Wagner is emblematic of the status of criticism as a whole: too much attention paid to firetruck phenomena (be it Berlioz or Bruckner) and too little to the merits of real musicians. If somebody composes the most divine music but no major political party picks him up and sells him around the world, a lot of critics will ignore him. If a major party picks up a musician who is as stereotyped as can be but launches him worldwide, your average critic will waste rivers of ink on him. critics are basically publicists working for CUM, and seed when to the greatest Opera composers of all times TO EVEN, to feed it has already been dilettantes and Nazis like Mendelssohn, who never sold much. They simply coping piece of dry CUM, and seed when to highlight what product the music business wants to make money from fanboi fuck your favorite little composer fuck you, what do you even know, you italian AIDS poorfag HIP schizo, cope harder gotem gotem
>>128769341>>128775059I'm pretty sure I've heard this before. It sounds meandering, maybe I'm not in the right mood for this impressionistic style (I rarely am tbf). But still, undeniably pretty, saved. The second movement (Danse Sauvage) was rather strange and barely coherent, third movement reminds me of late romantic more, which I prefer. >>128775067I would prefer if it was just analysis of form and motifs, without all the extra babbling about symbolic meanings. It would be a short 10-15min and that's all I liked there lol. Richard Atkinson's videos are by far the best, I can't recommend them enough.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTxYykhQZbI
>>128775289Thanks for giving it a try :) Love sharing whatever lesser-known solo piano music I across that's of interest and good
>[R.] comes to the subject of Nietzsche, who, out of sheer malice toward him, distorts the passage he wrote in his Beethoven about the way B. listened to folk melodies, and he did it just in order to denigrate R., "ignoring the fact that Beethoven was the greatest melodist who ever lived. The way he took a folk tune and gave it back to the people, transfigured–it was like the condescension of a god, like the unknown maiden appearing to the shepherd. And to rank him on that account somewhere below Schubert! What Schubert was, B. had long known all about. Disgraceful—and so stupid!">In the evening [R.] plays and sings An die entfernte Geliebte [Beethoven, Op. 98] to us, greatly moving us with it. "The whole of Schubert can be found in this," he says, and that brings him on to Nietzsche's maliciousness (about Schubert and Beeth.) and the whole dismal experience!
>>128775314I like listening to them as well, and sharing my thoughts, so anytime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYsEUTc4Dm0
>>128775389damn, how I did I not know about this recording? It's a great selection of pieces performed by Kissin. Added. I should just go through his entire discography, see what I've missed from the good chunk I have already heard and enjoyed.
>>128761389If you find Bach torturous then wtf are you even doing in a classical general.
now playingstart of Haydn: The 7 Last Words of Christ, Hob. XX:2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmtbNKF1UNg&list=OLAK5uy_m32y6D2jb0eqcNFKrt2qV0AR7Zjtx3yEE&index=1https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m32y6D2jb0eqcNFKrt2qV0AR7Zjtx3yEE>In short, the Attacca reading is rich, dynamic, emotional, uplifting, and inspiring. When you add the excellence of Azica's sound into the mix, their performance surely stands among the best available. ---- Classical Candor>The Attacca Quartet completed a recording project of Haydn’s masterwork “the Seven Last Words of Christ on the Cross” arranged by Andrew Yee and the Attacca Quartet. In his review for Gramophone, Donald Rosenberg wrote “The Attacca Quartet explore the works range of expressive moods with utmost sensitivity to nuance and interplay. . . They triumph in every respect, and are captured in such vivid sound that no telling Haydn detail is allowed to go unheard.”Thewholenote.com wrote “...It’s easily the most satisfying string version of the work that I’ve heard.”A sublime work. Highly recommended.
>>128775446Is this the best thing Haydn ever composed? Even better than The Creation? Quite possibly.
>>128775352>Beethoven was the greatest melodist who ever livedBased, Wagner knew what was up.
Liszthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdhBDzF_OA4&list=OLAK5uy_mYYE2SX8ubmajJIOedEY8QxcYUNQYiAmw&index=5>The Transcendental Études form a cycle of twelve pieces whose composition began in 1826 and was completed in 1851. Starting from the idea of an encyclopædic collection which, in the manner of Johann Sebastian Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, Liszt's Transcendental Études became something of a seismograph of his compositional aesthetic, first strongly under the influence of Paganini, later more in the style of character pieces. These études are among the most difficult works ever written for the piano. Together with Chopin's Études, they serve as a basis for piano technique, some of them already prefiguring musical impressionism, and they had a significant influence on subsequent piano music, most notably that of Debussy, Rachmaninov, Bartók, and Ligeti.
>>128775410It's a nice performance, but honestly mediocre Medtner performances are rare, only the dedicated pianists dare to play him at all.>>128775457It's pretty good but I haven't listened to it entirely, sounds like Beethoven. My favorite Haydn piece is sonata no. 59, especially the slow movement, one of the most memorable things I've heard from him. Barely sounds like Haydn
>>128775512Look dude, I'm not racist, but I don't listen to Asian pianists with the single exception of Mitsuko Uchida because she grew up in Europe and was taught by Wilhelm Kempff.
>>128775529>It's pretty good but I haven't listened to it entirely, sounds like Beethoven.I was gonna say Schubert, especially the Largo/second movement I'm listening to right now, but yes, most definitely.>My favorite Haydn piece is sonata no. 59That one is pretty great. My issue is he has so many piano sonatas, every time I listen to them, they all kinda get lost in the mass, especially since I visit them so rarely. I ought to spend more time with them.>especially the slow movementhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IcvGCllh54&list=OLAK5uy_nZBzClcHP_zAmfLSHiiiiGwr2M8xiSpNY&index=142From my favorite (complete or otherwise) set.
speaking of Asian pianists, anyone else excited? I know there are some Yunchan Lim fans here. Comes out February next year. Here's the excerpt-single they have released in the meantime if anyone wants to peep:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCJImHej2l0&list=OLAK5uy_kkUGiv-CMs6k5A1jbYBLn0Ff5LAKWRwis&index=1>Release date: 6 February 2026>25th April 2025: Carnegie Hall has been sold out for months in anticipation of Yunchan Lim’s return to perform Bach’s Goldberg Variations. The whole world watched as a moment of musical history was made. 70 years earlier – and just a few blocks from Carnegie Hall – a 22-year old Canadian called Glenn Gould made a recording of the Goldbergs which was also destined for legendary status. Decca Classics is now proud to present the next chapter in the history of this timeless music and an extraordinary young artist. >The New York Times:>“I assumed that the increasing depth of Lim’s “Goldbergs” during the concert might have been him settling in. But after, I wondered if he’d had the intention, or at least the instinct, to turn Bach’s journey into the account of a young man growing up.” >Yunchan Lim:>“To me, this piece is the journey of the human life told through music—Bach’s portrayal of existence itself. Performing a piece like this is why I do music.” >“The first time I heard Bach’s Goldberg Variations was when I was eight years old and I discovered a box set of Glenn Gould’s Bach recordings. When I first listened to it, I was amazed by its grandeur and beauty, and it has remained close to my heart ever since. I’ve dreamt of releasing this piece as a live album from Carnegie Hall.”Very cool, very excited. Nice to see these bigtime releases still happen, and to witness it in real-time :D
>>128775566somewhat based but give it a try
>>128775598>>The New York Times:>>“I assumed that the increasing depth of Lim’s “Goldbergs” during the concert might have been him settling in. But after, I wondered if he’d had the intention, or at least the instinct, to turn Bach’s journey into the account of a young man growing up.”I haven't the slightest idea what this means lmao, much less why they would include it on the product page as marketing. They couldn't find a better quote?
scriabi :3
>>128775567>My issue is he has so many piano sonatas, every time I listen to them, they all kinda get lost in the massThat's why I never listen to the sets, only a select few or just one, but since most of them don't 'click' I rarely bother.>>128775512That's how I imagine you look LOL>>128775598I saw a headline today:>Zimerman Praises Lim's Chopin as Earth's Finest
>>128775677>That's how I imagine you look LOL-_-Not in the slightest. The part white blood does a lot of work. You probably wouldn't even know I was Asian on first-or-even-second glance.>>Zimerman Praises Lim's Chopin as Earth's FinestDo you agree? I know I've seen another anon say his Etudes are the finest modern set. They're great but a tad too virtuosic for my taste; I prefer a little more poetry, a little more sentiment, and a little more delicacy.
>>128775705>Not in the slightest.Most Asians look similar tbf, since there's less genetic diversity in their population. >Do you agree?Today? I also like his Etudes, but what else does he have? Besides Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Beethoven? I can't say. Plus I'm not as familiar with 21st century pianists as I am with 20th and 19th century pianists. Lim's Chopin I've listened to has good rubato, may be one of the finest today.In general? Hell no. It's too early to say, I don't think he'll surpass the likes of Hofmann and Rachmaninoff though.
>>128775861>Most Asians look similar tbf, since there's less genetic diversity in their population.I don't disagree, but that only applies to full-blooded Asians.>Today? I also like his Etudes, but what else does he have? Oh I just meant your opinion on his Chopin. His Liszt Transcendental Etudes is apparently a big deal, and often gets listed as a modern reference recording of the work. And as posted above, his Goldberg Variations should be interesting and worth checking out.>In general? Hell no. It's too early to say, I don't think he'll surpass the likes of Hofmann and Rachmaninoff though.I'm not even that big on Lim but,thanks boomer
>>128775943Looking at images of asian european mix, I would instantly tell you're part asian. The eyes and cheekbones are dead giveaways. I also have mixed friends, both are female but it's not much different.>Liszt>Goldberg VariationsOk looking forward to that.>thanks boomerYou're filtered by hiss. Hofmann is the GOAT. If you can put aside the recording quality for a moment, and actually compare interpretations, you'd likely agree that he and his contmeporaries are special.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOjIVS216UMuch more expressive and in control of the instrument. Melodic lines emulate Italian bel canto singers like Caballé. I tried to show it to you a couple of times with timestamps and all.
>>128775499Beethoven was a medicore melodist.
Beethoven was a melocore medidist.
>>128775439Listening to and posting classical music? What kind of question is that?
>>128776207it's just strange that you would enjoy the rest of classical music if you find the very foundation for 90% of it to be torturous.that's like going on /lit/ while hating Homer
>>128776261>if you find the very foundation for 90% of it to be torturous.I never mentioned Corelli or renaissance contrapuntists though?It's not strange at all, I like some Bach toohttps://music.youtube.com/watch?v=kWg_H2CqrbY
>>128776261I don't see what's strange about it at all. It may be foundational but it's from a completely distinct time period and style.>that's like going on /lit/ while hating HomerPlenty of people like modern novels and don't care for ancient verse.
now playingstart of Schubert: Symphony No. 8 in B Minor, D. 759 "Unfinished"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23S5AaVp_qw&list=OLAK5uy_n5N2GxofkPZU7Qm7IF5S9lc_u-0BdltRA&index=6start of Schubert: Symphony No. 9 in C Major, D. 944 "Great"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nIa5AufNlE&list=OLAK5uy_n5N2GxofkPZU7Qm7IF5S9lc_u-0BdltRA&index=11https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n5N2GxofkPZU7Qm7IF5S9lc_u-0BdltRAFelt like either a Beethoven/Schubert 9 day, and this time I opted for Schubert. Let's see how the master Sawallisch handles it!
>>128776312>Plenty of people like modern novels and don't care for ancient verse.yes, but they are the uninitiated young readers and the romance-loving housewives
>>128755025anyone else find this edit cringe, specifically the facial gestures of the girl. i find her face even annoyying
>>128776312>>128776334He isn't even foundational, just a culmination of all the traditions and techniques before classical era, in the most sophisticated style. You must be retarded to think Bach is foundation to anything. Even his son CPE was more innovative in harmony and form (sonata forms can be traced back to him)
>>128776357bach is definitely foundational for most of what came after him, and most listeners of classical generally don't listen to much before him.and don't even try to say he wasn't popular after his death, composers studied him extensively. he simply wasn't popular with the general audiences, not composers.
>>128776352This general has been taken over by wagner cocksuckers and poojeeta spammers. It's over. It's all poo now.
>>128776399What he was foundational in? For whom? In what way?Composers studied him because he was the most prolific contrapuntist to ever live and he was very good at what he was doing. Doesn't mean he was foundational to anything, everything Bach did can be found elsewhere, not as exhaustively for sure, but nonetheless all of it was widely available.
Is Szell's Mahler 6 as bad as hurwitz says?
>>128776993I'm not familiar with Hurwtiz's review of it, but no, it's not bad.
Favorite pieces for the lyre?
De Fallahttps://youtu.be/Ur5z7f4HHxg
jeets will never be coolshit only makes shitMahler sucks cock.
Went with my normie buddy (EDM fan, but ok with occasional classical) to Beethoven's Violin Concerto. And she liked it but was like "there's too much attention to the soloist instead of an orchestra". I have never thought about it like that, but what do you think /classical/? Where do think the balance between soloist and orchestra should be? My favorite Violin Concerto is Stravinsky, but there it's more like soloist versus the orchestra.Also heard Music for String Instruments, Percussion, and Celesta by Bartok which started very depressing. As for the later movements, I felt that some passages were copied one for one into Piano Concerto No. 3. Although I prefer them in Piano Concerto No. 3.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bX1BVXJak
Mahler might not have been a great melodist, or a good pianist, but nonetheless, I would consider crowning him as the absolute GOAT. If anyone should have the title, it's him. At least in the orchestra departement, hands down.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTjex4t1wzM&list=OLAK5uy_nBSyOZ1m0kwJ8zikY0YYnjtOvoG45VYAI&index=1
jewish bullshit
>>128777329Performances have some control over the balance too, which obviously means sometimes they can go too far in either direction. That said, that's what an X concerto is supposed to be lol, a piece with predominant focus on X instrument.
>>128777420All I see in the image is the GOAT and some hebrew text
>>128777376Yes. He's got anywhere from 9-to-11 of the top 20 symphonies of all-time.
>>128777018Do you accept harp? In that case Handel: Concerto for Harp, Strings & b.c. in B flat major and William Alwyn ''Lyra Angelica'' Concerto for Harp and String Orchestrahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4PvsfzHGD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OP3N7KxTpU
Who has time for this old shit when I could sit to listen and WATCH k-pop beauties
>>128777376>not a good pianistHe was considered a piano virtuoso at 12 and early in his career gave concerts where he played difficult pieces by Liszt and Beethoven. I don't think those piano rolls are representative of his pianistic skills.
>>128776484Nta but you can play this game with any artist or art form. >what was foundational about Einstein/general relativity? I mean, he built off of Maxwell's equations and other people's ideas, etc. Yes, nothing is created in a vacuum, knowledge is provisional, and no one's work has ever been completely original.Bach took counterpoint to the next level. He brought more emotional, narrative, and structural complexity to music than any composer before him. He was the first to use music as a true force for dramatic tension and release, which is why the classical and Romantic composers sound far more like Bach than Corelli, Palestrina, or any earlier figure.
For me, it's Schubert's Wanderer Fantasyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy_HeH-pRfI
Just finished listening through Bruckner's oeuvre for the first time. What a snoozefest. No idea what everyone is raving about.
>>128778092Just finished reading your post. What a terrible opinion. No idea why you haven't ended your life yet.
>>128777741>but you can play this game with any artist or art form.You can apply that logic to most composers, that is correct, but not to any artist or art form. Einstein is a terrible example since he actually 'stole' the theory of general relativity. >He brought more emotional, narrative, and structural complexity to music than any composer before himContrapuntal complexity - for sure, emotional narrative? Fuck no. Even his contemporary, Handel was much better at that. But Handel in general was one of the best in that regard, so it's not even fair to compare the two.Bach probably had his little micro innovations when he used heavy chromaticism, as every composer did, but he is not an innovator. Contrapuntal complexity is not an innovation, it's pushing the limits. He's not an innovator in a sense that Haydn or Beethoven or whoever were. Some people are so delusional that worship their some composers like gods, they see no boundries to their praise, but in reality no composer could be good at everything as they were all human. Learn to acknowledge facts instead of this ignorant, blind worship. Bach was the master contrapuntist above all else and one of the most famous composers, there's no need for you to shove his unearned achievement down our throats.
>>128778092Bruckner, just like any other composer, needs time and effort to digest and fully appreciate. The adagio of the 7th is his most beautiful, complex and accessible movement, in short his greatest work, take another listen:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghzevma-nyAIf that doesn't convince you to reconsider your thoughts, then Bruckner just isn't for you.
>>128778148>but not to any artist or art formPerhaps "any" was a stretch, but certainly the vast majority - including artists and art forms who are (correctly) identified as foundational, given that the term is not an absolute.>Einstein is a terrible example since he actually 'stole' the theory of general relativityVery dumb (and most likely uninformed) take. It's like saying Dalton "stole" his atomic theory from the Greek atomists. Einstein took an existing (and rather nebulous) idea and expanded upon it in ways that were actually useful to every physicist who came after him. Anyway, back to music...>Handel was much better at thatNo he wasn't. And if be surprised if any classical or romantic composers who weren't insufferable contrarians would have disagreed with me.>He's not an innovator in a sense that Haydn or Beethoven or whoever wereInnovative ≠ foundational Bach is foundational in the sense that his influence can actually BE HEARD in subsequent composers more than that of any other composer during or before Bach's time.
>>128778389>Einstein took an existing (and rather nebulous) idea and expanded upon it in ways that were actually useful to every physicistHillbert, Lorentz and Poincaré were by far the most important figures for the theory of general relativity. They absolutely did the main job, Einstein just decorated it, combined their works into one and claimed it as his own (or rather, the nobel commitee chose to make Einstein famous and forget about the larger genius that went into it)>composers who weren't insufferable contrarians would have disagreed with me.I don't care who would agree or disagree with you. I care about the facts, which can only be observed through ears alone, in music at least.>Bach is foundational in the sense that his influence can actually BE HEARD in subsequent composersIf that's how you define foundational, then sure. Beethoven even took motifs from Bach, almost note by note. Bach was an influential figure, but not a revolutionary in any stretch of the imagination.
Check out my CD, /classical/:>symphonicness 10/10>spectacularity 10/10>digitalness 1/1Objectively the best classical album of all time. 10/10 will listen again, but not right now because it's the kind of music that makes you want to turn it up too loud.
>>128778511>Hillbert, Lorentz and Poincaré were by far the most important figures for the theory of general relativityThanks chatGPT!!Einstein built on their ideas and actually proved them mathematically. This is not theft by any stretch of the imagination, you nitwit. >I care about the facts, which can only be observed through ears alone, in music at leastMe too, which is why I'm comfortable appealing to popularity in this particular case. Bach's music is more emotionally mature and impactful than Handel's - and I have no doubt the vast majority of people would agree with me.>but not a revolutionary in any stretch of the imaginationYou keep moving the goalposts. First it was "he wasn't innovative", now it's "he wasn't revolutionary." I suppose we’re getting into semantics here, but foundational carries a different meaning than those two terms. Artistically speaking, to lay a foundation is simply to establish groundwork - not necessarily the absolute groundwork - for future ideas or work. In that sense, Bach provided more of the foundation for the future of music than his contemporaries, insofar as he was the most extensively studied, admired, and directly drawn from in terms of style.
>>128778511>Hillbert, Lorentz and Poincaré were by far the most important figures for the theory of general relativity.Maybe you could argue that for special relativity.
>>128778690Yooo this nigga listenin' to JARNEFELT hahahahaha
>>128778704>Thanks chatGPT!!ChatGPT wouldn't misspell Hilbert, dear brainlet.>actually proved them mathematically. Lol nope. Mathematically Einstein did the minimal. >which is why I'm comfortable appealing to popularity in this particular case. So you don't care about facts, gotcha.>emotionally matureMeaningless word salad.>You keep moving the goalposts.No, it's the same sentence worded differently.Bach was studied, but so was Fux. In fact, Fux was MUCH more essential to Beethoven and Haydn than Bach. You can find HUNDREDS of sketches of Beethoven working out Fux's exercises, you can't really say how much he learned from Bach. In short, let's not blow anything out of the proportion. But I wouldn't expect anything less from a logiclet.
Bach fans are insufferable. They can't comprehend that not everyone likes Bach's terrible music. Most people have not even heard of him.
Wagner fans are poo. They can't comprehend that not everyone likes poo. Other than poojeets no one has even tasted poo.
>>128779050>ChatGPT wouldn't misspell HilbertYeah, I guess you should have just copied and pasted.>Mathematically Einstein did the minimalOhhh, he did ""the minimal"". I stand corrected.>So you don't care about facts, gotchaLol you can't even follow your own logic.You say you care about facts which, in your words, "can only be observed through ears alone, in music at least." Well, if that's the case, the facts are on my side not yours, given the FACT that 99% of people would agree with me.>Bach was studied, but so was FuxYeah, and so was Josquin. But no one's work was poured over more than Bach's - this isn't up for debate.>You can find HUNDREDS of sketches of Beethoven working out Fux's exercises, you can't really say how much he learned from Bach“Study Bach. There you will find everything." - Beethoven
>>128755025What /classical/ music fits winter?
>>128779198*pored over Under the circumstances, I feel it's important to correct my mistake here lol
I am a transgender Wagnerite and I approve of all of the above as an integral manifestation of the Will itself.
>>128779206https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee_TCQDrrIU
>>128779206Here's a boring answerhttps://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqHFsmWGbtPAMkJvj81k25JbzDsLtbmf4
Wagner lives in your head. Your alarm is made up of the loudest Wagnerian baritone Gottlob Frick. You hum like Wagnerian sopranos in your showers and bathtimes. You have started sexually exploring yourself completely and without limits. Your dreams are filled with you taking swanboat rides.
>It’s all the more remarkable that Wagner could in 1865 get away with painting sexual love in the intoxicating sounds of Tristan’s second act duet; but it is in the question of Musical intoxication that Nietzsche and Eduard Hanslick agree. Wagner’s genius was too powerful. His music ‘bullied the senses’, and overwhelmed the listener. Hanslick felt the sensuality of Tristan to be pornographic.
>>128779206For some reason this Stenhammar quartet always felt wintry to me.https://youtu.be/q-YsF5cphaw
>>128779198>Yeah, I guess you should have just copied and pasted.Kek cope harder. I guess you'd need chat jeetPT for something as simple as that, thus the projection.>Ohhh, he did ""the minimal"". I stand corrected.I never said he didn't. >given the FACT that 99% of people would agree with me.So? Is this another ad populum? How boring. Not to mention that your statistic is made up, not to mention that not even majority would agree (not that it's relevant, just pointing out the irony).>But no one's work was poured over more than Bach'sConsidering that most of Bach's music was not even widely available, this is indeed highly debatable if not outright dismissimble.>“Study Bach. There you will find everything." - BeethovenThis is a quote by Brahms, not Beethoven.
>>128779198>>128779528It is indeed dismissible, Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven all were more familiar with J.C. Bach's works (not J.S.'s), CPE Bach's works and Handel's works, according to both the primary and secondary sources, you can use a search engine I'm sure (I'm being sarcastic), so you can go ahead and drown in disappointment as your entire point is invalidated.
>>128779528>So? Is this another ad populum?You say facts are what you hear, and you're complaining about ad populum? And yeah, obviously 99% is not objective and a bit hyperbolic, but denying that the vast majority of people would agree that Bach is more spiritually stirring than Handel is just dishonest.>Considering that most of Bach's music was not even widely available, this is indeed highly debatable if not outright dismissimbleI was talking about the work of composers during or before Bach's time.You're just being argumentative now.>This is a quote by Brahms, not BeethovenSo it is."His name ought not to be Bach (brook), but ocean, because of his infinite and inexhaustible wealth of tonal combinations and harmonies. Bach is the progenitor of harmony." There's one from Beethoven.
>>128778690definitely unique
>>128779607>source: just trust meFuck off, pseud
composers I always forget exist: Enescu and Kodaly
>>128779871oh and Eugène Ysaÿethe amount of times I made mental notes to revisit their six sonatas for solo violin and promptly forgot...
now playingstart of Malcolm Arnold: Symphony No. 5, Op. 74https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfYU0wjJazo&list=OLAK5uy_kA79ES_pPkXBl3a6X4QDsmAa1DXAbsF-s&index=2start of Malcolm Arnold: Symphony No. 6, Op. 95https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBJPRAC9quo&list=OLAK5uy_kA79ES_pPkXBl3a6X4QDsmAa1DXAbsF-s&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kA79ES_pPkXBl3a6X4QDsmAa1DXAbsF-sLoving these English symphonists as of late.
I love Mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEKUUnkbZMA
now playingstart of Glazunov: Symphony No. 1 in E Major, Op. 5 "Slavyanskaya"www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1hirbGDAxU&list=OLAK5uy_km4Z2XrqM0mPZkwKaAqeK3nzNwDRW7rGE&index=2start of Glazunov: Symphony No. 2 in F-Sharp Minor, Op. 16https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCju0J6e0Pw&list=OLAK5uy_km4Z2XrqM0mPZkwKaAqeK3nzNwDRW7rGE&index=6start of Glazunov: Symphony No. 3 in D Major, Op. 33https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p756DOGwt3k&list=OLAK5uy_km4Z2XrqM0mPZkwKaAqeK3nzNwDRW7rGE&index=9https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_km4Z2XrqM0mPZkwKaAqeK3nzNwDRW7rGE>Glazunov's symphonies are a significant cycle within the Russian symphony, to which similar status should be accorded as the today considerably better-known symphonic cycles by his successors Prokofiev, Myaskovsky or Shostakovich. Like Camille Saint-Saëns in France or Max Bruch in Germany, Alexander Glazunov was a truly progressive, but formally conservatively thinking composer who was not willing to sacrifice the traditional symphonic form to superficial Modernism. It is now time to rehabilitate Glazunov's symphonies. Whoever studies them intensively will discover some of the finest music of their time and particularly under the wonderful baton of the great Glazunov champion Neeme Järvi.I find these symphonies incredibly comfy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHSY7eRS_HsThis is so incredible, I'm very pleased to have discovered this>>128779871I can never forget Kodaly because of the cello sonata, whenever I think of the cello it comes to mind
>>128781082Earl Wild composed some music? neat, I'll check it outAlmost as crazy as when I learned Stephen Hough composes music too
>>128780959Often feel that Glazunov is a little overlooked for being a Russian composer who doesn't fit certain stereotypes of what Russian composers are supposed to be like i.e. heavy, emotionally overrunning, etc.. Very fleet-footed and lyrical, always great in scherzos.
Scriabi's Diner
Brahmshttps://youtu.be/F0FmuJjLMhY
>>128755025Best recording of Resphigi's 6 Pieces for Piano?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdx5nGphnAIIsn't it beautiful how life is such a long yet ephemeral experience? You can die at any given time if death has willed it. You can die walking down the street and you can die in your sleep. The inevitable conclusion to all life. The end. You are left wondering what was it all for... all that toil, all that act and farce, all the failures, all the victories... for what? for nothing... for nothing chud. You did it all for absolutely nothing. I am sorry but this is how things are and how things are going to be. What a damn shame with all those millions of meaningless carbon monkeys toiling away in the void.
>>128781640nigger
>>128781640>You are left wondering what was it all for... all that toil, all that act and farce, all the failures, all the victories... for what? For Wagner.W.
I remember still the first time I saw the Vagner meme.It was 73, Brahmscuck was on /classical/ with the trusty Sibelius. I'd never seen Vagner before, and found myself thoroughly entertained. I'd heard Vagner was a tranny meme, and it certainly showed in its humor. I distinctly remember smirking to the memes. But nothing could prepare me for the absolute show of wit that was about to come in first syllable of the word Vagner, when happened the eponymous vag.Vagina! A single pun, and just after Wagner’s name! I burst out laughing. "Oh Brahmscuck" I remember thinking, barely managing to think straight at all between my chuckles and wheezing. "What a prankster! What a jokester!"/classical/ attemped to calm me down, some even asking how I'd not known about the famous Vagner by then, popular as it was. Were they not happy one had been lucky enough to live to that point and still feel the pure, unadulterated Brahmscuck genius? Were they jealous? I did not know then, and do not care now.I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the Vagners in the next post. At the edge of my seat, I waited for the repeat of the Vagner, this time hoping to control myself. Imagine my surprise then, during the next Brahmscuck post, when the Vagner surprised me further by not showing up at all! At that point I feared for my life, such was the lack of oxygen from my guffawling fit.They only managed to removed me from the thread putting an end to my disruption after I'd already soaked the board in urine.
Wagner is the only reason one needs to live. Even if you are an incel or a woman, you may yet "Live" through Wagner.
>>128779206Sibelius' tone poem Pohjola's Daughterhttps://youtu.be/faPICSQRQIw
>>128777376>At least in the orchestra departement, hands down.Wagner and Strauss beat him there. Even Bruckner if you want to follow Stravinsky's opinion.
My issue with wagnersisters is it's not like he did anything unique, he just composed operas. It'd be the same as simping for Mozart or Strauss or Verdi.
Niemann.
>>128782186Listen. This is /classical/, not "plebbit". We only discuss patrician refined music here. You are on the wrong bus stop, but instead of being a civil individual and leaving, you are instead creating a "ruckus" for the other waiting passengers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMw0EjLFPXw Wagner showed us the dangers of being a "faustian" man, not with long essays and tedious literature, but with elegant sound and smooth instrumentation. You are the devil, "Mephistopheles" trying to seduce us poor souls into degeneracy.W.
>>128782186yes, and George Lucas was just another director.
In Meistersinger's harmonies, one hears the echoes of Bach's intricate counterpoint, as if the ghostly specter of the Baroque master had momentarily forsaken the organ in favor of the opera house.Richard Wagner once said of Johann Sebastian Bach’s music: “That made me what I am. My unending melody is predestined in it.” In Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, Wagner demonstrated to post-Tristan sceptics his mastery of traditional musical forms. Sonorous chorales, an overture which Wagner described as 'applied Bach', a fugally-inspired toccata, an unforgettable quintet and counterpoint worthy of Bach all feature in this magnificent score celebrating the marriage of inspiration and tradition.The whole of Die Meistersinger— shaping itself before our very ears — is Wagner's answer to his critics, a song offered them to meet their specifications, filled with all the things they demanded and found wanting in his other work: diatonic structures, counterpoint, singable tunes, ensembles, folk dances worthy of Weber and chorales worthy of Bach.
>>128782186Is this bait or are you just too retarded to realise that Mozart, Strauss and Verdi are all extremely unique geniuses?
Upon listening to Brahms' fourth symphony, an embarrassment of sterility shuddered through me. I knew that were I to show this mudswamp of music to the Neolithic ancestors of so-called Brahmsians, the sort of false men who doubtlessly made Venus figurines, they would find it suitable for their crude worshipful mating dances. All at once I felt the brokenness of the cuckold, the humidity of the polycule, all the longings and dissatisfaction of the timid and inferior man contained in that unnecessary music. An inert and sapless art indeed.
>>128782240That's my point!
>>128782305But what's wrong with opera composers????? Man you're missing out.
new>>128782307>>128782307>>128782307
>>128782305the difference is Wagner founded a full fledged religion.
>>128782308My question is why simp *only* over Wagner when, to my view, he was simply one among a handful.>>128782322That's how people act!
>>128782332There's absolutely nothing wrong with being an obsessive fan of Mozart, Verdi, Wagner or Strauss. Why do people pick any composer as their favourite? Them all being opera composers isn't relevant because their operas are so different.
>>128782332Wagner was the most important person since Jesus.
>>128779753>>128779771>>128783404
hearing Pines of the Appian Way for the first time is fucking orgasmichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdve48nptNk
