Chad Schumann editionhttps://youtu.be/4RQoJjhFv2sThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>128836326
>>128854255what a crock of shit lmaogermans are such blowhards
>>128854158>Sometimes I feel the ecstatic mystic impression and sometimes I just feel that the music wants me to have that impression.Well said.
Is your ability to appreciate Western art music limited if you weren't raised playing an instrument? I believe so.
>>128854299average vocabulary of a german-hater
finna travel back in time and make Chopin compose another cello sonata at gunpoint, maybe even a cello concerto
>>128854042>>I never feel that my music is sparse or minimalist; the way fat people never really think they're fat. I certainly don't consider myself minimalist at all.lololol>>128854086>>For me it's the instrument. If I want to think of a flute and the state of the arts I hear a vibrato; I don't know what a flute is unless the person plays it for me.did he create the meme?
Fell asleep listening to Messiaen and woke up a Deleuzianhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFq0j6US1Fw&list=OLAK5uy_nxwJ5Xhx7-WtMY4gabghyHvyuKPWB-ACI&index=2
Falling asleep to Feldman's Triadic Memories.
>>128852005>>128853129Okay I tried the first sonata and I can't do it, sorry. I just don't like the sound of a fortepiano. I felt the same way when I tried Schiff's fortepiano performances of Schubert. Thanks for the rec anyway.
have you noticed how the composers who had sex wrote much much better music that the composers who did not have sex?>mozarthad sex, wrote good music>wagnerhad sex, wrote good music>bachhad sex, wrote good music>strausshad sex,wrote good music>beethovendid not have sex, shit music>mahlerdid not have sex, shit music>schoenbergdid not have sex, shit music>sorabjidid not have sex, shit music>handeldid not have sex, shit music>chopindid not have sex, shit music
>>128855584Mahler married the most desirable arthoe in all of Vienna, what you talkin' 'bout?
Debussyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv0liAHNdL8&list=OLAK5uy_lsutu188roJQiMuO9VCfAp1RNObBRdXuA&index=1
>>128854716Chopin's lyricism, pianism and cello is a match made in heaven.
>>128854217So sad Schumann has no melodies.>"In Schumann there is not a single melody, and that’s why I place Schubert so high above him.">"I think highly, too, of many of his songs, though they are not as great as Schubert's. He took pains with his declamation—no small merit a generation ago.">Wagner says he has often sung to himself themes from Mendelssohn but found it impossible to do the same with Schumann, whereas with Brahms he had really begun to doubt his musical receptivity till his pleasure in Sgambati showed him he was still capable of taking things in.>He then speaks of how much he likes the one chorus in [Mendelssohn’s] Saint Paul following the stoning of Saint Stephen. He remarks on what a period of decadence we live in; Mendelssohn still had some ideas, then Schumann, a foolish brooder, and now Brahms with nothing at all!>Wagner wrote ironically to Wolzogen about the various tragedies: of Schumann, to have possessed no melodies, of Rossini, to have had no school, of Brahms, to be a bore, etc.
>>128855682more like a match made in hell
>>128855683>that’s why I place Schubert so high above him."The fuck does Schubert have to do with Schumann other than the prefix "Schu"? Wagner is a fucking retard.
>>128855711I can live with someone not liking any of Chopin's piano music but if you don't like the cello sonata, I can't be convinced you like classical music at all.
Is the Ring actually the most ambitious work of music/art ever created?I hear this a lot.
>>128855584>>sorabji>did not have sexHe had sex, but it was gay sex.
>>128855801Hot
I love John Cage.Cope & seethe.
>>128855891I too love 4'33, his magnum opus. It's my most listened piece of music of all time.As for the rest of his repertoire... Yuck!
*writes the greatest symphony of all time**writes the greatest piano concerto of all time**writes the greatest violin concerto of all time**writes the greatest string quartet of all time**writes the greatest piano trio of all time**writes the greatest piano sonata of all time**writes the greatest violin sonata of all time*How the FUCK did he do it?
>>128855979Objectively speaking:>greatest symphony of all timeMahler 9>greatest piano concerto of all timeRach 2>greatest violin concerto of all timeMendelssohn E minor>greatest string quartet of all timeDeath and the Maiden>greatest piano trio of all timeD929>greatest piano sonata of all timeChopin sonata no.3You're a popslopper. I am correct.
>>128856323>>greatest symphony of all time>Mahler 9>>greatest piano concerto of all time>Rach 2>>greatest piano sonata of all time>Chopin sonata no.3>>>/r/classicalmusic
>>128856536Thanks popslopper, any other redditlinks?
>>128855717They're the two most famous lieder writers, retard.
>>128856701Schumann didn't even write that many songs. And his lieder is far outweighed by piano/chamber/orchestral output.
>>128856323so true indian child
>>128856797Excellent post redditchild
>>128856323>>>/metal/
>>128856783>his lieder is far outweighed by piano/chamber/orchestral output.I don't think that's true. I know Schumann wrote a lot of lieder, albeit not as much as Schubert. But it's rather beside the point because the next sentence makes it clear that he's comparing Schumann and Schubert as lieder composers and iirc Wagner was totally ignorant of Schubert's greatness as a composer outside of lieder.
>>128856837Okay I was wrong, 250 songs isn't bad. I'm only familiar with the song cycles and even that is meh, and Schumann is easily one of my most listened composers. I absolutely love his instrumental music.
>>128856889>I'm only familiar with the song cycles and even that is mehMaybe you're just not a lieder guy? In the late 19th century he was pretty universally revered as the second great lieder composer.
>>128855683I find much more care and detail in the songs of Schumann, Brahms and Hugo Wolf. By comparison, Schubert's settings are literal and offhand, and his accompaniments redundant to a degree I find difficult to live with.
>>128857003Yes, I'm not a lieder guy.
>>128856594>>128856797>>128856815fantastic classical discussion, redditsisters
This may be a controversial statement, but I think Beethoven was the greatest lieder composer.
Scriabin or Rachmaninoff?
>“You don’t like being kissed,” Chopin wrote to his school friend Tytus Woyciechowski in one of 22 letters. “Please allow me to do so today. You have to pay for the dirty dream I had about you last night.” Letters to the friend, who was actively involved in Poland’s January uprising of 1863, often start with “My dearest life” and end with: “Give me a kiss, dearest lover.”>Some letters fall just short of being sexually explicit. In July 1837, Chopin wrote to his friend Julian Fontana in Paris from London, reporting with excitement about “great urinals” with “nowhere to have a good tinkle”.
>>128858472Rachmaninoff. But I love Scriabin about as much.
>>128857537hes the best composer and best human that ever existed
>>128858784No, that was Wagner.
>>128858802no sissy crossdresser is the best human that ever existed
>>128858784>>128858802It is empirically proven that the greatest man who ever liver or will ever live is Chopin.
>>128858819who?
>>128858819Chopin, while great, is not the greatest composer. You have Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Tchaikovsky. But Chopin was great, I'll give you that. Again, it seems that it's a copy of other European powers, though. Nothing really breakthrough. Seems like Poles have their own versions of European art, but they don't invent or discover, just have their own take...which is fine, but it's not revolutionary.
>>128858829>is not the greatest composer. Correct. He is the greatest man who ever lived or will ever live.
>>128858835No, that was Wagner.
>>128858858That's a weird way to spell Chopin
>>128855979Ubermensch is as the ubermensch does
>>128858805The ladies didn't think so.>Wagner, at this time, had moved into a cottage built in the grounds of Wesendonck's villa, where, during his work on Tristan und Isolde, he became passionately involved with Mathilde Wesendonck. Whether or not this relationship was platonic remains uncertain. One evening in September of that year, Wagner read the finished poem of "Tristan" to an audience including his wife, Minna, his current muse, Mathilde, and his future mistress (and later wife), Cosima von Bülow.
>>128854963I tried this last night but there was so little happening my mind began to wander and it only kept me up, so I switched to something else more engaging
>>128858819I don't believe in empirical science. I only believe in a priori truth.
>>128858960Then you are not very bright and your opinion is irrelevant.
Anyone listen to Beethoven's early and middle string quartets more often than they do his later ones these days? The later ones are too powerful for casual listening, whereas the earlier ones are perfect.
beware: there are people in this thread RIGHT NOW who earnestly believe Schumann's symphonies are better than Brahms' symphonies
After the French Revolution and the time leading up to it the music and the art and humanity itself became corrupt.Music after the 17th century is not worth listening to, for the most part. Music affects the soul; Plato said that music is integral to a healthy society; a Chinese emperor said that he could tell the health of his provinces by the character of the music which was popular in each of them; Lenin said that he knew no quicker way of corrupting a people than bad music. So why poison your soul with the violent and distasteful music of the 18th century, the brooding and evil romanticism of the 19th century, or the schizophrenic and malignant "music" of the 20th century? The popular music of today is nothing but pornography mixed with cloying sentimentalism; cheapo McDonald's music for cheapo McDonald's souls.I don't think you can listen to Mozart and not become a flamboyant socialite obsessed with "beauty" (vanity).I don't think you can listen to Beethoven and not become a disturbed, brooding revolutionary intent on self-glorification and an arbitrary "justice".I don't think you can listen to Chopin and not become a pretty little girl fond of nostalgic memories.I don't think you can listen to Wagner and not become a raping and pillaging pagan.I don't think you can listen to Mahler and not become a neurotic Jew.I don't think you can listen to Stockhausen and not become Satan.Hail Palestrina!
>>128859029Brahms 4 > Schumann 3 > Brahms 3 > Schumann 4 > rest of Brahms > rest of Schumann.
>>128859128Further proof Brahms 2 is underrated
>>128859029Schumann's symphonies far surpass Brahms' symphonies, which contain all too much filler and, with the exception of the 4th, end in a whimper. Brahms was never able to write a truly triumphant finale, instead concluding in a placid continuation of the present mood (the 1st attempts to contrive tragedy in a minor key introduction, only to return to the major tonality of the previous movements). Just compare the lackluster finale of his 3rd symphony, coming after the intense 3rd movement, with the cathartic finales of Schumann's 2nd symphony and 1st piano trio. Brahms' slow movements in the first three symphonies are also more tedious than memorable or moving.
now playingLiszt: Piano Sonata in B Minor, S. 178https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3O6H_RLsi8&list=OLAK5uy_lxA2PynueMa4o4RRMLNMsAbrZsnRyEb0M&index=2Liszt: Nuages gris "Trübe Wolken", S. 199https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUWXiqCObxE&list=OLAK5uy_lxA2PynueMa4o4RRMLNMsAbrZsnRyEb0M&index=3Liszt: Unstern! (Sinistre) , S. 208https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KxeljDNCqE&list=OLAK5uy_lxA2PynueMa4o4RRMLNMsAbrZsnRyEb0M&index=4Liszt: La lugubre gondola I, S. 200 No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtR64gWQHos&list=OLAK5uy_lxA2PynueMa4o4RRMLNMsAbrZsnRyEb0M&index=5Liszt: R.W. – Venezia, S. 201 (Homage to Richard Wagner)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QQ44NJPsZM&list=OLAK5uy_lxA2PynueMa4o4RRMLNMsAbrZsnRyEb0M&index=5
Getting so tired of rock/pop, might have to finally start listening to classical on my headphones when I'm out and about in the world.
>>128859142>underratedThanks plebbit.
>>128859278>listening to popslop
>>128859156>>128859326the madmen have slimed out of their Schumanncave. is this the part where I reply,>actually Schumann is peak plebbitin any case, it goesBrahms 3, 4 > Schumann 4 > Brahms 1, 2 > rest of Schumannactually I might even go so far as to say Schumann 4 = Brahms 1, 2 but I'll be gracious
Now that the dust has settled (NTTDHS), we can all admit Igor Levit probably has the best recording of Liszt's Piano Sonata in B minor, ye?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hiLo_EcXII&list=OLAK5uy_nw8n8qLECAVVHXddDJA-y9IoCxUxIPmPg&index=4
>>128859362Hideous ranking. Schumann's 3rd mogs all Brahms, even 4th on a good day. Your taste is reddit.
How can a mann listen to Schumann's 3rd and be like>hEH i THinK 4tH iS Le beSt aNd BRaHms iS bEttEr
Schumann was probably the greatest symphonist before Mahler came alonghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u1u_xAYg4o
now playingstart of Modest Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibitionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUlFqPg3iQE&list=OLAK5uy_lNCMofCdU16OdsCwOfL9wiTz1vyu4bKm4&index=2start of R. Schumann: Fantasie in C Major, Op. 17https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79VGi9M12w&list=OLAK5uy_lNCMofCdU16OdsCwOfL9wiTz1vyu4bKm4&index=11https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lNCMofCdU16OdsCwOfL9wiTz1vyu4bKm4>Paul Lewis’ Mussorgsky/Schumann coupling may not persuade 100 percent of the time, yet there’s no question of the pianist’s serious, mindful, and thoroughly committed mastery. ---- Jed Distler, ClassicsToday, Ranking: 9-9I don't know why but I got the motivation to go on a spree of adding several recordings of Mussorgsky's seminal work, mostly for piano but some orchestral too. I decided to start with Paul Lewis' recording mostly because of the nice pairing. Next time will be Evgeny Kissin, which many say is the finest reference recording of the piece. Anyway, this one should be great!
>>128859514>Schumann: Fantasie in C Major, Op. 17Basado. One of the GOATsWhy is Schumann so great bros
>>128859507>finest symphonist>needed Mahler to improve and correct the orchestration
>>128859529That's why Mahler was the ultimate symphonist, and Schumann behind him
>Aristotle? No thanks, I prefer Mozart.>Kant? No thanks, I prefer Beethoven.>Nietzschean? I'm more of a Lisztian. >Schopenhauer? For losers. Scriabin is my philosophical guide.
Anyone familiar with any of the "Khrennikov's Seven"? Just came across them.>Khrennikov's Seven (Russian: Хpeнникoвcкaя ceмёpкa or Ceмёpкa Хpeнникoвa) was a group of seven Russian Soviet composers denounced in 1979 at the Sixth Congress of the Composers' Union by its leader Tikhon Khrennikov for the unapproved participation in some festivals of Soviet music in the West. Khrennikov called their music "pointlessness... and noisy mud instead of real musical innovation". The seven were listed in the following order: Elena Firsova, Dmitri Smirnov, Alexander Knaifel, Viktor Suslin, Vyacheslav Artyomov, Sofia Gubaidulina, and Edison Denisov. These composers subsequently suffered restrictions on performance and publication of their music.[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrennikov%27s_SevenOh hey, Sofia Gubaidulina we know. And I can understand why certain people would call her music and anything like it "noisy mud" haha.>"An administrative punishment was made, preventing them from being performed on the radio and television, and prohibiting the publication of their scores. The leaders of the Composer's Union also proclaimed the policy of 'divide and rule', and Schnittke, who previously had been harshly criticised, was suddenly given official recognition." (Dmitri Smirnov: Song from Underground 1)[2]huh
Anastasia Kobekina's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYt9fGcpBnw&list=OLAK5uy_kv4SWl_TyuaYA9kRL3UTU7hXnjegwm2Dc&index=13
Is there such a thing as a "firetruck" string quartet? Is it physically doable?
>>128859379https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U3D37QN49Qhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtzuGmF29bAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i8Ddv08VHg
>>128858829>Tchaikovsky
>>128859894I told you to leave those dusty old records in the attic, grandpa. It's Igor Levit's time now.
>>128858829Maybe Chopin was just rehashing Beethoven's Moonlight, Les Adieux, and Funeral March, but he did it to utter perfection, taking them to new depths of beauty, emotion, and form.
>>128858735>Woyciechowski is shown in Chopin's letters to him to be amongst the composer's favorite friends, or perhaps a lover: >As always, even now, I carry your letters with me. How blissful it will be for me, having gone beyond the city walls in May, thinking about my approaching journey, to pull out a letter of yours and assure myself sincerely that you love me, or at least to gaze at the hand and the writing of him, whom only I am able to love!>—Frédéric Chopin to Tytus Woyciechowski (27.3.1830) >I will go and wash. Don't kiss me now, because I haven't yet washed. You? Even if I were to rub myself with Byzantine oils, you still wouldn't kiss me, unless I compelled you to do so with magnetism. There is some sort of force in nature. Today you will dream that you're kissing me. I have to pay you back for the nasty dream you brought me last night.>—Frédéric Chopin to Tytus Woyciechowski (4.9.1830)damn, did a fujo translated it?
>>128858829>Mozart
>>128859807>rolleibladtryhard shit, not a good start
>>128859807aight untidy and not in a casals way, lacks bowing arm strenght for the intensity she wants. not a fan of the mic placement. kinda hot.
>>128860138My issue is I don't very much care for the baroque tone, despite the romantic elements. It's funny, most performances that combine both end up with a soft middleground, but here, Kobekina takes and utilizes the hard, distinctive elements of both, and then you add a highly personalized approach, you get a individualistic, harsh result. Seems love-it-or-hate-it. For me, at first I didn't care for it, but the second review on here,https://bachcellosuites.co.uk/bach-cello-suites-home/list-of-reviews/anastasia-kobekina/>This is not a “Man (or Woman) For All Seasons” set. Some will love Kobekina’s adventurous, clean slate, approach to the Suites, whilst others will be irritated by the lack of an obvious direction and structure throughout, copious hesitations in phrasing, and personal idiosyncrasies. This has already been reflected in reviews I have come across, where 2 major music journals have given it short shrift, but a national newspaper gave a favourable review! As for me, I am just glad to have spent time in her artistic presence, and this recreative act. Frankly, if I could convince Charles to convert my Favourite Five into a Super Six, this would make my cut in the pantheon. I suspect that might be a forlorn hope, but I dare to dream!convinced me to give it another shot, and I'm seeing the merits. I just need to get over the baroque tone!
>>128854217There's a new book - A History of the World in 50 Pieces: The Classical Music That Shapes Us by Tom Service, it lists the following compositions:• Enheduanna: Hymns• The Orestes Fragment• Malkauns Raga• Cantillation: The Chants of Judaism and the Other Abrahamic Faiths• Hildegard of Bingen (1098–1179): Ordo Virtutum• Dies Irae Plainchant• Pérotin (active around 1200): Viderunt Omnes• Comtessa de Dia (c. 1175–1212): A chantar m’er• Prince Mangkunegra IV of Surakarta: Ketawang Puspapawarna (“Kinds of Flowers”)• Anonymous, c. 1450: L’homme armé• Bell Pattern: Standard Pattern / Bembé• Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina (1525–1594): Missa Papae Marcelli• Maddalena Casulana (1544–1590): Il Primo Libro di Madrigali• Claudio Monteverdi (1567–1643): L’Orfeo• Francesca Caccini (1587–after 1641): La liberazione di Ruggiero• Barbara Strozzi (1619–1677): Il Lamento• Change Ringing: The Tradition of Bell Ringing and its Repertoires• Henry Purcell (1659–1695): Dido and Aeneas• Isabella Leonarda (1620–1704): Sonatas, Op. 16• Élisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre (1665–1729): Céphale et Procris• Roque Jacinto de Chavarría (1688–1719): “Fuera, fuera! Háganles lugar!”• The C Major Scale• Johann Pachelbel (1653–1706): Canon in D Major• Johann Sebastian Bach (1685–1750): St Matthew Passion• George Frideric Handel (1685–1759): Messiah• Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges (1745–1799): L’amant anonyme• Wolfgang Amadé Mozart (1756–1791): The Marriage of Figaro• Ludwig van Beethoven (1770–1827): Symphony No. 9• Louise Bertin (1805–1877): Fausto• Richard Wagner (1813–1883): Der Ring des Nibelungen• Patty and Mildred J. Hill: Happy Birthday• Igor Stravinsky: Le Sacre du printemps (The Rite of Spring)• Lili Boulanger (1893–1918): Psalm 130 “Du fond de l’abîme”
>>128860138>>128860191>tfw no professional artist/cellist gfsomeday...
>>128860203• Ralph Vaughan Williams (1872–1958): The Lark Ascending• Solomon Linda (1909–1962): Mbube• Dmitri Shostakovich (1906–1975): Symphony No. 7 “Leningrad”• Margaret Bonds (1913–1972): The Ballad of the Brown King• Karlheinz Stockhausen (1928–2007): Gruppen• Leonard Bernstein (1918–1990): West Side Story• Yoko Ono (1933– ): Cut Piece• Pauline Oliveros (1932–2016): Bye Bye Butterfly / Deep Listening• Emahoy Tsege-Mariam Guèbrou (1923–2023): Music for Piano• Songs of the Humpback Whale• Julius Eastman (1940–1990): Stay On It• Steve Reich (1936– ): Different Trains• Meredith Monk (1942– ): Atlas• Thomas Adès (1971– ): America – A Prophecy• Unsuk Chin (1961– ): Šu, Concerto for Sheng and Orchestra• John Luther Adams (1953– ): Become Ocean• Kaija Saariaho (1952–2023): InnocenceI thought it's quite a decent list.
>>128860203>>128860210for me, its the C major scale and Yoko Ono's cut piece
>>128860203>>128860210Did those later contemporary pieces really change or affect anything, beyond an incredibly insular, generally outdated, and possibly dead genre of music?
>>128860203>>128860210Cool list, thanks. I'll check out the book and the articles about and reviews on it.
>>128860203Does it actually go into detail or is it just a pop-rundown for retards?
>>128860278It's a whole book, anon.https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/dec/17/nazis-ode-to-joy-happy-birthday-beethoven-shostakovich-putin
>>128860278Book's not out yet.
>>128859362>I remember from a conversation with Frau Schumann how she, for her part, evaluated the first movement [of the First Symphony]. She found little outstanding about the ideas of the first part of the Allegro; only with the so-called development in the second part was the music thrilling and significant. Moreover, in the second subject she discovered a reminiscence of Schumann’s Manfred Overture. She explained that when she expressed this to him one day, Brahms retorted with irritation: “Yes, I know, of course, that I have no individuality” [“Ja, ich weiss ja, dass ich keine Individualität habe.”]
>>128859474It certainly has more beautiful themes than any symphony by Brahms.
now playingstart of Liszt: Piano Concerto No. 1 in E-Flat Major, S. 124https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs6F9CYI3WY&list=OLAK5uy_l73XOMyH8SBwhT2c2ctJqwgDw9yUHZ47I&index=2start of Liszt: Piano Concerto No. 2 in A Major, S. 125https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3JJrGt1NE8&list=OLAK5uy_l73XOMyH8SBwhT2c2ctJqwgDw9yUHZ47I&index=6start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 10 in G, Op. 14 No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY917uYx36k&list=OLAK5uy_l73XOMyH8SBwhT2c2ctJqwgDw9yUHZ47I&index=10start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 19 in G minor, Op. 49 No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgDNqAVMFCo&list=OLAK5uy_l73XOMyH8SBwhT2c2ctJqwgDw9yUHZ47I&index=13start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 20 in G, Op. 49 No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CXC0OYx53U&list=OLAK5uy_l73XOMyH8SBwhT2c2ctJqwgDw9yUHZ47I&index=14https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l73XOMyH8SBwhT2c2ctJqwgDw9yUHZ47I
>>128860371>Recordings of Liszt's concertos come and go, some of them making an impressive splash before they disappear without trace. But Richter's with Kondrashin endure, thanks to their combination of imperious pianism, inspirational conducting and shared instinctive musical understanding. All this rubs off on to the music, giving it the finest advocacy it has ever enjoyed, in word or deed. To Richter, of course, goes the lion's share of the praise, for his unmatched mastery of rhetoric and structure. So often he seems able to extract as much juice from a semiquaver as most other pianists from a crotchet. And by subordinating flashiness to nobility and control of phrasing he can release unparalleled adrenalin rushes when he finally cuts loose. I doubt whether the accelerando through the finale of the E flat Concerto has ever been better realized.Kondrashin, too, has been lavishly praised for his role, and with reason. He draws from the LSO playing of a fieriness to make Liszt's apparently corniest moments feel like authentic infernal visions. At the other extreme he has them dovetailing their phrases with the soloist like a dream, accepting minuscule imprecisions (as at the opening of the A major Concerto) for the sake of the greater poetic good. >Whether the disc is more desirable with three Beethoven sonatas than with the Liszt Piano Sonata (the coupling on the Philips comparison), I would doubt. But the Beethoven recordings certainly show Richter on top form, placing each sonata in an expressive world of its own. Supplement either disc with Richter's and Kondrashin's live Liszt concertos, taken from the last of Richter's London début appearances in 1961, and you will have riches indeed; though I have to say the studio accounts are in many ways the more daring. David Fanning -- From International Record Review
all this argument because of a five year old pastahttps://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/95976170/#q96000238
>>128860479Just because someone is copy-pasting, doesn't mean they don't mean it. Often times, it perfectly represents what the poster wants to say.
>>128860515people have been posting it for years so i doubt that
any fans of the composer Kurt Weill? anything worthwhile from him?
>>128855801Interesting, Freddie Mercury was also Parsi and a faggot. Do the similarities also hold in music? Give me a characteristic piece that's short enough for me to bother.
>>128860550i like the overture of the three penny operahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPD-s7jcCoM&list=OLAK5uy_n4p9VuHmipxehdO-Rd8bVmRT1Bz_nsvgA&index=2
>>128860515>>128860533also, even compared to Wagner pastas this one is very obvious bait. I say this as someone who loves the Schumann symphonies but within the first line you have obvious (You) farming lines like saying Brahms of all composers contains "too much filler". if someone who wants to advocate for Schumann thinks they are doing so by posting this pasta instead of making an original post, they no more warrant a response than if it were insincere
>>128860613https://youtu.be/sdwCj8jLKdU
>>128860362>In the evening he goes through [Spontini’s] Olimpie Overture with Herr Seidl, who does not know it: “Splendid stuff,” says R., “I can actually see the Diadochi filing in. It stands somewhere between Gluck and Rossini, quite remarkable—it has an entirely Gluckian structure and a passion for cadences such as no one showed before Rossini, except Cherubini. But it has character, one is aware of a proud fellow who will stand no nonsense, wears all his medals on his chest. One can see what a difference self-assurance makes, how unmistakably dramatic it all is when one compares it with Brahms, for instance.”You can hear the unsureness in Brahms' music.
>>128860690In all sincerity, I've always been jealous of those who are sensitive to those subtle emotions of music. Not sure I could ever identify 'self-assurance'. Assuming he's not just BSing or saying whatever negative stuff about music he doesn't like, of course.
>>128860023Nonsense. Chopin is the logical conclusion to the late Beethoven and thus peak of music.
>>128860870Chopin is gay as hell
>>128860904Any other comment you want to make on the greatest man who ever lived or will ever live?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZu5z5u_jM
>>128860717it's pretty silly when Nietzsche says there is "impotence" or whatever in Brahms, but it is true that Brahms tends towards ambiguous and reflective moods which can strike people as distant and unsure, although i think this is partly due to identifying surety with drama. Brahms' "surety" is in his peace. Even his large Romantic statement in the 3rd symphony is less a surging drama and more a portrait of starkly contrasting torn moods, internal rupture that settles into peace. Frei aber froh as opposed to Schumann's frei aber einsam; his expression is of one who is pained by his need to remain separate from the world. this modern feeling of Flaubertian objectivity in which the artist is invisible and the artwork is everything is what Nietzsche disliked in Brahms, although his critique becomes rather overstated as it does for Wagner. it's self-evident that Brahms didn't lack inspiration and trying to qualify yearning which arises from abundance vs. impotence in music of all things is a fool's errand.
I think we should ban every poster who praises their favorite composer to a godlike status, like the Wagnerfag or the Chopinfag just now calling him "the greatest man to ever live". These people are here more to raise statues to their heroes than to actually enjoy and talk about music.
>>128861082The Wagnerposting is largely an in-joke holdover from when the general was dominated by arguments about the War of the Romantics
Polonaise fantaisie op.61 should be regarded as the peak of artistry. I've never heard a more clever musical architecture, fiercer drama, richer emotional palette and melodic genius at the same time anywhere besides Mahler's 9th. Pay close attention to each voice and motivic cell, this is how music should be composed and performed:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Y8GDwa4qU
>>128861082Wagneromania is an excusable absurdity, Wagnerophobia is a disease.
>>128861161trvthnvke from Saint-Saens
The Wagnersister is falseflagging the Chopincel to make the Brahmscuck look bad.
Anon is falseflagging an an anon to make an anon look good.
>>128861431I'd never seen your favorite little composer Vagner before who never sold much.
>>128861449I bet that knockoff Beethoven 9th symphony you call "Brahms's 1st symphony" is tickling your prostate as we speak.
>>128860643>In the HothouseKek. Not feeling the heated intense emotions though, cold and fragmented.>>128854803A bit like Satie's Sarabandes, and a bit like someone meeting a piano for the first time.>>128855643Regular Debussy, like Satie, but without the subtlety.>>128859173Always like a slow piece, very avant-garde sound from Liszt.>>128859514Not seeing those pictures from the exhibition from that, just not really elegant and artistic for me.Accidentally played two videos at once, enough for today.>concertos>sonataspass
>>128861082
>>128861509It's interesting how the internal mythology of Wagnerism has often produced this idea of a line of descent through Bach, Beethoven, and sometimes Weber, with other major German composers excluded. Nietzsche said something similar in Birth of Tragedy:>From the Dionysiac soil of the German spirit a power has arisen that has nothing in common with the original conditions of Socratic culture: that culture can neither explain nor excuse it, but instead finds it terrifying and inexplicable, powerful and hostile – German music, as we know it pre-eminently in its mighty sun-cycle from Bach to Beethoven, from Beethoven to Wagner.To some extent this can be attributed to German nationalism of the lesser German kind (Handel and Mendelssohn being too cosmopolitan, Mozart/Haydn being too Austrian), but there is also this attempt at retrospective historical shaping. Bronze Age Pervert is a contemporary exponent who makes the same argument:>If you begin backward, if you start first with the music of Wagner and Scriabin, sense their intentions and spirit, and from there reconsider the classical music tradition from before, it starts to sound different. If you listen to Beethoven and Bach with what comes later in mind, then you see something hidden. You start to see that yes, the composition of polyphony and even much of Baroque music still was almost entirely within the Christian-Alexandrian synthesis that is known as “Western civilization.” But within German music in particular there is an undercurrent that is not of it, it is from somewhere else. It’s not always honestly and explicitly expressed, but it’s there in the bass harmonies of Beethoven and already of Bach, and often also in their thematic melodies that recall an uncanny, impulsive and brutal spirit that says again and again: here is nature, here is the brute surface of the rock face deep inside night forest...It's a kind of conflation of Wagner's own self-engendering history with history as a whole.
>>128861390Dont be fooled the Mahler cult is surely behind all this
>Why don't you love Mozart? With regard to him we clearly disagree with one another, my dear friend. I not only love Mozart – I worship him. For me, the best opera ever written is Don Giovanni. With your fine musical sensitivity, you surely ought to love this ideally pure artist. True, Mozart did expend his energies far too liberally and very often wrote not following his inspiration but out of necessity. However, do read his biography which has been excellently written by Otto Jahn, and you will see that he had no choice but to do so. Besides, Beethoven and Bach, too, wrote lots of weak works which are unworthy of standing alongside their masterpieces. Such was the force of circumstances that they sometimes had to turn their art into a trade. But take Mozart's operas, two or three of his symphonies, his Requiem, his six string quartets dedicated to Haydn, and the C minor quartet. Do you really not find anything beautiful in all this? True, Mozart does not grip one as profoundly as Beethoven; his sweep is not as broad. Just as in life he was a carefree child to the end of his days, so in his music there is no subjective tragedy of the kind which reveals itself so strongly and powerfully in Beethoven. However, this did not prevent him from creating an objectively tragic figure, indeed the most striking and powerful human figure ever portrayed through music. I mean Donna Anna in Don Giovanni [...]
>>128862035>For God's sake, do read the bulky but very interesting book on Mozart by Otto Jahn. You will see from it what a wonderful, irreproachable, infinitely kind, and angelically pure nature he had. He was the incarnation of the ideal of a great artist who creates because of an unconscious stirring of his genius. He wrote music as the nightingales sing, i.e. without pausing to think, without doing violence to himself. [...] Everyone loved him; he had the most marvellous, cheerful, and equable temperament. There was not a whit of pride in him. Whenever he met Haydn, he would express his love and veneration for him in the most sincere and fervent terms. The purity of his soul was absolute. He knew neither envy nor vengefulness nor spite, and I think that all this can be heard in his music, which has reconciling, clarifying, and caressing properties [...]>I could go on talking to you forever about this radiant genius for whom I cherish a kind of cult [...] Apart from you, I have met a few people before who had a fine understanding of music and loved it passionately, but who at the same time would not acknowledge Mozart. In vain I tried to open their eyes to the beauty of his music, but never before have I so wanted to win over someone to the ranks of Mozart's admirers as I would like to win you over now. Of course, in our musical sympathies it is very often accidental circumstances which play an important part. The music of Don Giovanni was the first music which produced a tremendous impression on me. It awoke a holy enthusiasm in me, which would later bear fruit. Through this music I entered that world of artistic beauty inhabited only by the greatest geniuses. Before that I had only known Italian opera. It is to Mozart that I am obliged for the fact that I have dedicated my life to music. He gave the first impulse to my musical powers and made me love music more than anything else in the world.- Letter from Tchaikovsky in 1878 to Nadezhda von Meck
i only listen to ~4 minute long piano pieces on minor keys which could easily fit in the background of some cheesy anime
>>128862069the chopincel path
>>128862035Figarocels seething over Don Giovannichads
rameauhttps://youtu.be/Eaf9NzclFUw
ockeghemhttps://youtu.be/ZWLsLAujZzI
isaachttps://youtu.be/tRnYS_hW0P8
josquinhttps://youtu.be/vlB1HR4BgUg
obrechthttps://youtu.be/qemz3il_R4s
de la ruehttps://youtu.be/UL9snI2h8Kw
Top 40 best operas of all time according to Scaruffi:1) Richard Wagner: "Tristan und Isolde"2) Ludwig Van Beethoven: "Fidelio"3) Claude Debussy: "Pelleas et Melisande"4) Alban Berg: "Lulu"5) Wolfgang Mozart: "Don Giovanni"6) Richard Wagner: "Der Ring des Nibelungen" (Das Rheingold/ Die Walkure/ Siegfried/ Gotterdammerung)7) Ferruccio Busoni: "Doktor Faust"8) Richard Strauss: "Elektra"9) Giuseppe Verdi: "Aida"10) Philip Glass: "Einstein on the Beach"11) Arnold Schoenberg: "Erwartung"12) Modest Moussorgsky: "Boris Godunov"13) Dmitrij Shostakovic: "The Nose"14) Krysztof Penderecki: "The Devils of Loudun"15) Giuseppe Verdi: "Otello"16) Wolfgang Mozart: "The Marriage of Figaro"17) Igor Stravinskij: "The Rake's Progress"18) Gyorgy Ligeti: "Le Grand Macabre"19) Olivier Messiaen: "Saint-Francois d'Assise"20) Kurt Weill: "Die Dreigroschenoper/ The Three-Penny Opera"21) Luigi Nono: "Prometeo"22) Leos Janacek: "From The House of the Dead"23) Harry Partch: "Revelation in the Courthouse Park"24) Benjamin Britten: "Peter Grimes"25) Paul Hindemith: "Mathis der Maler"26) John Corigliano: "Ghosts of Versailles"27) Wolfgang Mozart: "The Magic Flute"28) Giuseppe Verdi: "La Traviata"29) Laurie Anderson: "United States"30) Peter Maxwell Davies: "Taverner"31) Sylvano Bussotti: "La Passion Selon Sade"32) Luigi DallaPiccola: "Prigioniero"33) Iannis Xenakis: "Oresteia"34) Wolfgang Mozart: "Cosi` Fan Tutte"35) Richard Strauss: "Salome"36) Richard Wagner: "Lohengrin"37) Giacomo Puccini: "Turandot" (1926)38) Richard Strauss: "Der Rosenkavalier"39) Luigi Nono: "Al Gran Sole Carico d'Amore/ In the Bright Sunshine Heavy with Love"40) Arthur Sullivan: "Mikado"
>>128861030>but it is true that Brahms tends towards ambiguous and reflective moods which can strike people as distant and unsure,Which is wild to me. It's depth that only adds to his genius.
>>128861508Thanks for giving them a try :)
Brahms appeals only to longhoused freaks and repressoids.
>One of Schonberg's best remembered criticisms of Bernstein was written after the famous 6 April 1962, performance before which Bernstein announced that he disagreed with pianist Glenn Gould's interpretation of Brahms' Piano Concerto No. 1 but was going to conduct it anyway because he found it fascinating. Schonberg chided Bernstein in print, suggesting that he should have either refrained from publicizing his disagreement, backed out of the concert, or imposed his own will on Gould; Schonberg called Bernstein "the Peter Pan of music".
reading some Murakami at the moment, and he always includes some neat passages about classical music in his novels. A little pandering, a tad pompous, perhaps, but who cares, a) it's mixing two of my loves, literature and music, b) high culture recognizes and references each other, and c) I love reading about art, no matter the source -- all the better when it's in other artthese are opera related1/2
murakami don giovanni 2/2
>>128862631amusing but on the other hand it's a good thing those Bernstein/Gould recordings exist
>>128862673it's not a good thing any Gould recording exists
>>128862857hate to embarrass you in front of your gf but Gould's Hindemith?
>>128862866it's not a good thing any Hindeminth recording exists either
>>128862872damn, you just embarrassed me in front of my gf
Strausshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzmyaGOPjpI&list=OLAK5uy_lACB4waLZg7jnDQM_cmE3T_ZuTUng2A7g&index=5
>>128862891my wish: -2 strauss operas, +2 strauss symphonies
>>128861030>trying to qualify yearning which arises from abundance vs. impotence in music of all things is a fool's errand.No offence anon, and I don't agree with Nietzsche here, but this statement kind of reeks of the modern tendency to study art in isolation and in the abstract rather than in connection with a broader cultural education. You seem to be rejecting the very possibility of there being deeper layers of intelligence and imagination in the interpretation of art, which robs art of a great deal of its cultural significance.
feels like a Rachmaninoff Symphony No. 2 nighthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBLe64Tlapg&list=OLAK5uy_kBqWxaNeGXX0Ecq0LyFZrr7WEEtmDepN0&index=6
>>128863011I think there are deeper layers of intelligence that can be perceived without claiming that a composer who wrote as many lyrical songs as Brahms was lacking in inspiration or potency, only covered up by references. My statements on the meaning of Brahms' sound world testify enough that I do not regard it as appropriate to regard music as purely abstract or isolated.
Any recommendations for pieces to learn on the piano after 1 year of playing? Prelude in E Minor Op. 28 No. 4 is currently the most difficult thing I can play. Also, which scales should I learn after learning every major and its relative minor?
>>128863011>>128863514to add to this, I don't think it would be unreasonable for an unsympathetic listener to call this kind of objectivity masochistic or self-abnegating, excessively inward. Nietzsche is correct to identify Brahms as expressing a modern mood, not a classical one. I object to the word impotence because it is just an insult, not meaningful interpretation, especially as he has conceded that Brahms possesses specific personal inspiration. When Brahms "relaxes" and shows us peace or surety, it is often expressed in those gentle and lilting melodies that are characteristic of him. it's not surprising that his most widespread and inescapable tune is a lullaby. To say his comfort in objectivity and reflective beauty, this separation from the world and concern with loss, mourning, consolation, is morbid or self-punishing—well, whatever, not everyone can like Brahms, and they say similar things about poetic counterparts like Tennyson. but impotence is at best Nietzsche's smear against creative powers and yearnings he deemed unhealthy. at worst it is journalist's cliché.
Late romantic opulent decadence type of night.
>>128865787I added that recording a while ago and forget to ever listen to it. Thanks for the reminder.
>>128865230>>128865230Bach: any of the 15 InventionsMozart: Sonata Facile KV 545Beethoven: Sonata No. 20 Op. 49 No. 2Chopin: Prelude Op. 24 No. 6Schumann: anything from the second part of Album für die JugendBrahms: Waltz Op. 39 No. 15Debussy: Jimbo's Lullaby from Children's CornerBartok: any of the Romanian Folk DancesAs for scales, I'd recommend the harmonic and melodic minor and the chromatic scale.
Can Brahms fans tell me what it is about his music that appeals to them? Whenever I listen to it I find it far too mechanical, especially compared to Wagner, Bruckner and Mahler.
>>128867537It just sounds good, what else is there to say?>Whenever I listen to it I find it far too mechanicalIt seems like he thought of form first, yes, but he always included everything else. So what?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrYTz9x8pDwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrBU9u6RKiohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZTRwXvq82wI don't get how anyone can not love these pieces.
You need to be an old soul to truly appreciate Brahms.
