Solstice Editionhttps://youtu.be/bmlEmDInh1oThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>128854217
What's the best recording of the Jupiter symphony?
>>128878794Karajan of course.
now playingstart of Schumann: Symphony No. 1 in B-Flat Major, Op. 38 "Spring" (Re-Orchestrated by G. Mahler)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rYhqmINYb4&list=OLAK5uy_nRWPeGyKbJGyqO72N7zn09YmHoaGBb0V0&index=2start of Schumann: Symphony No. 2 in C Major, Op. 61 (Re-Orchestrated by G. Mahler)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxipjT2j8LA&list=OLAK5uy_nRWPeGyKbJGyqO72N7zn09YmHoaGBb0V0&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nRWPeGyKbJGyqO72N7zn09YmHoaGBb0V0Alsop + Schumann + Mahler? Can't go wrong.
>>128878794Szell or Bohm with Berlin>>128878796If you have something you need to vomit up maybe
Liszt travels to Wagner's castle, where he observes a secret ritual portraying a devilish Jew raping several blonde-haired Germanic nymphs. Wagner then appears with Cosima, dressed in Superman outfits, and sings how "the flowering youth of Germany was raped by 'the beast'" and that a "new messiah" will soon arrive to drive out the beast. At the conclusion of the song, Cosima marches the audience, composed entirely of children, out with a Nazi salute as they chant that they "will be the master race".Liszt confronts Wagner, who is unaware of what Liszt has seen, and inquires about his ambitions. Wagner confesses that he has been building a mechanical Viking Siegfried to rid the country of Jews. When Wagner awakens Siegfried with his music, the creature turns out to be crass and slow-witted. Liszt sneaks holy water into Wagner's drink, but the water has no effect. Wagner then reveals himself to Liszt as a vampire and threatens to steal his music so that Wagner's Viking can live. Liszt rushes to the piano and plays music, exorcising Wagner and bringing him to near death. Cosima, witnessing Wagner's moribund state, imprisons Liszt and then resurrects Wagner in a Nazi ceremony as a Frankenstein-Hitler wielding a machine-gun guitar. Trapped, Liszt observes as Cosima leads the Wagner-Hitler to gun down the town's Jews, after which she kills Liszt by stabbing a needle through the heart of a voodoo doll made in his likeness.In heaven, Liszt is reunited with the women he has romanced in his life and Cosima, but it never is explained how she got there after killing Liszt, who regret their behaviour toward him and each other and finally live in harmony. In the final episode, Liszt and the women decide to fly to Earth in a spaceship to destroy Wagner-Hitler who has now ravaged Berlin in a fiery machine-gun frenzy. Once Wagner-Hitler is destroyed, Liszt sings that he has found "peace at last".
>>128878794There's lots of great ones, really it just depends how you like it (from Walter to Karajan to Szell to Bernstein) but I had to pick just one, it's Blomstedt:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiohY_O6-uY&list=OLAK5uy_lxVoucjYdl_svINirR_7SRlD_uTScz6cs&index=5
Karajan in Mozart is an insane recommendation. Mozart with recessed fucking woodwinds and his proprietary greasy strings, great idea.
>>128878798I'll admit, the first time I heard Mahler's re-orchestrations, I didn't think much of the difference, but now that I'm much more familiar with the symphonies than I used to be, I now notice they are in fact a huge improvement.
>>128878820HIPsters btfo, aesthetes win again :^)>pic: me as I'm about to steal your girl as you sit next to her
Karajan haters are pathetic contrarians. How can they not recognize his truly exceptional talent?
>Wagner came to find Rienzi “quite repugnant,” but Gustav Mahler characterized it as nothing less than “the greatest musical drama ever composed.”
>>128878831In fairness, the argument is usually Karajan for some things, and not for others. Me? I like the K-man for all timezones.
>>128878827I don't give a shit about HIP. I recommended Szell or Bohm >>128878802. Karajan's Mozart is just godawful.
>‘There are really not more than three perfect German opera composers: Mozart, whose sureness of aim in all that he did is unparalleled, Wagner - and you’ll be surprised at the third!’ ‘Weber?’ I asked. ‘No! The third, in my opinion, is Lortzing. His Zar and Wildschütz reveal him, in text, plot and music, to be the greatest operatic talent next to Mozart and Wagner.’
>>128878843I tease, I fully understand and respect why one would not care for Karajan's Haydn and Mozart. How do you feel about Bernstein's though?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3cGFGCUuQY&list=OLAK5uy_mFDHj1_m9c1IayhOBM1kjX56JDQCHtAys&index=41More clarity and fidelity than Karajan's, with a similar aesthete perspective, and with more oomph and weight.
Berg on Mahler vs Strauss
Okay, anons, it's that time of the month where I yet again attempt to get into opera. Which work should I put on? Preferably with a recording recommendation. Mozart? Verdi? Wagner? Strauss? Puccini? Let me know.
>woke up in the middle of the night to this song playing on the classical music station I have on at night as background noise> it just had to be this title, wake up spontaneously to it being on for about 10-15 seconds enough time for me to see it and cap itClassical /mu/, this is some sick joke by god laughing at me isn’t it? I mean what the fuck
>>128878913lolIt's the last sleep of the virgin because you're finally gonna get laid today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr2mcEtCxnY&list=RDdr2mcEtCxnY&start_radio=1Sounds amazing for its age
>>128878859not my first rec but it's not bad and I've enjoyed them in the past. Bernstein's typical issue is being kind of sloppy/choppy and losing the line, which doesn't really apply in these late recordings, but there is maybe a little too much stateliness at the expense of movement. I wouldn't call his predominantly Romantic aesthetic similar to Karajan's, which is smoothed over and regular (Karajan is best understood as a modernist). The conductor I forgot to mention is Walter, who would be my preferred choice for a more Romantic interpretation of Mozart.
>>128878907>Wozzeck>Kegel>L'incoronazione di Poppea>Cavina>From the House of the Dead>Gregor/Mackerras
>>128878859Bernstein sucks so bad
>>128878959the Berg it is as soon as this Bach recording ends, thanks. I hope it finally clicks for me this time so I can finally explore an entire musical space I've been missing out on.
>R. relates that it was maintained in the Musikalische Zeitung that he (R.) was no true musician; the proof of that could be seen in his never having ventured into the field of the symphony. “Well,” R. says, “I should like to know who has ever written a symphony, except for Beethoven! How idiotic to make a generic term out of one man’s most individual characteristic, as if everybody had to write symphonies like that.”
>>128878948When I say aesthete sensibility, I simply mean they subordinate almost any concern for fidelity to the piece for their own all-consuming musical vision, the conductor as artist par excellence. And yeah, Walter's is great.
What is it about much of Bach's pure music (ie non-vocal) which contains that mystical aura? Most of the cello suites, some of the solo violin sonatas and partitas, and above all the Art of Fugue. This musical holiness is completely absent in classical music again until Liszt.
>>128878907LOHRNGRINLOHENGRINLOHENGRIN
>>128878848Has anyone here ever actually listened to Lortzing?
>>128879085apparently mahler
Listen to:>Bach (Set the quality standard tier)>Mozart>Gesualdo>Haydn>Lotti>Zelenka>Webern>Byrd>Palestrina>von Biber>Buxtehude>Martin Kraus>Monteverdi>Ravel>Schoenberg>Rameau>Berg>Bartok>Scriabin>Schubert>CPE BachAvoid listening:>Beethoven (Ruined music tier)>Rossini>Brahms>Wagner>Mahler>Tchaikovsky>Rachmaninoff>Shostakovich>Chopin>Debussy>Satie>Saint-Saens>Sibelius>Holst>Williams>von Weber>Zimmer>Gounod>Cage>Glass>Verdi>Schumann>Schnittke
which of Mozart's piano sonatas are are your favourites?
>>128879213None, Mozart died too late rather than too soon.
Mozart died too late rather than too soon
>In the afternoon we play Brahms Triumphlied, much dismay over the meager character of this composition which even friend Nietzsche has praised to us: Handel, Mendelssohn, and Schumann wrapped in leather. R. very angry, he talks about his longing one day to find in music something that expresses Christ's transcendence, something in which creative impulse, an emotion which speaks to the emotions, can be seen.
>Beethoven >Rossini>Brahms>Wagner>Mahler>Tchaikovsky>Rachmaninoff>Shostakovich>Chopin>Debussy>Satie>Saint-Saens>SibeliusBASED and god-tierJust missing>Scriabin>SchubertLet's get rid of the rest.
>>128879213I pretty much love all of the ones after and including 310. If I want more upbeat and charming, I go for one of the 300s, like,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAbNjF2Slgg&list=OLAK5uy_l_YU0yv6tFh2wLnLPG4ORHIYImuhbe_zs&index=24orhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwLSK2vfyMQ&list=OLAK5uy_l_YU0yv6tFh2wLnLPG4ORHIYImuhbe_zs&index=7If I want dramatic and emotional depth, I go for one of the later ones,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uSRNxggaBc&list=OLAK5uy_m27j5lZUQm8mWQYygEa34KSCIscCrlPDQ&index=2orhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UShsM7T5IQw&list=OLAK5uy_m27j5lZUQm8mWQYygEa34KSCIscCrlPDQ&index=26
speaking of Mozart, now playingstart of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 24 in C Minor, K. 491https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZaVz2-8fjg&list=OLAK5uy_mVuc55NQv8zeaTgrkJEbLZSkXhcaf0V7M&index=2start of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 25 in C Major, K. 503https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAYR3iLoCak&list=OLAK5uy_mVuc55NQv8zeaTgrkJEbLZSkXhcaf0V7M&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mVuc55NQv8zeaTgrkJEbLZSkXhcaf0V7M
>>128879405so true romantislopper, so true
>>128879347Triumphlied may be kinda kitschy but it's fun as fuck and life-affirming, all similar to Beethoven's Choral Fantasy.>>128879405I suppose I could subsist a lifetime on this if need-be.
>>128879405but why no Bach?
>>128879496he put Satie and Tchaikovsky on the same level as Beethoven and Brahms, it's obvious ragebait
>>128879496Why Bach? He only has like one great piece (Art of Fugue).It's all the same contrapuntal boring mess.>>128879556>it's obvious ragebaitAre you describing your own post right now? lol
>>128879596...how can you not like the Goldberg Variations at minimum? I can see why one wouldn't care for Bach's other singularly contrapuntal keyboard works or the dense, often inscrutable cello suites and solo violin sonatas and partitas, but the Goldberg Variations are universal in their immediate appeal, formal genius, and emotional depth.
>>128879194>>Bach (Set the quality standard tier)>>Late Beethoven>>Gesualdo>>Haydn>>Lotti>>Zelenka>>Stravinsky>>Josquin>>Palestrina>>Satie>>Buxtehude>>Bartok>>Machaut>>Ravel>>Couperin>>Marais>>Nielsen>>Bartok>>Scriabin>>DebussyFTFY, always glad to help fellow plebs cook
>>128879654I never said I don't like it. It just sounds like any other Bach piece, few variations aside. It's quite monotone. Art of Fugue is great since it's the absolute best of that boring, one dimensional style of strict polyphony.
>>128879668Disliking Anton von Webern is a sign of low musical intelligence.There's a reason why every major composer for the past century has absolutely adored Webern and been deeply inspired by his work. And that reason is because the music that Webern created was simply brilliant.If you don't Iove the dodecaphonic serialist style compared to earlier styles thats one thing. But you have to respect the ingenious of Webern's work.Disliking Webern is like disliking Samuel Beckett or Kurt Gödel. It comes off as ignorant.
>>128879422thanks
>>128879727>There's a reason why every major composer for the past century has absolutely adored WebernThere's a reason appeal to authority and/or popularity is a logical fallacy.
>>128879727Totally forgot about this pasta, thanks for the reminder.Liking Webern is also a sign of not getting laid, Rachmaninoff and Debussy appreciators don't have this problem
I wish you nothing but a Merry Christmas /classical/ Baroque and Russian classical for all because tis the season.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJYUDy1Q69g&list=RDdJYUDy1Q69g&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMGKtXElgvA&list=RDMMGKtXElgvA&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc62GZC5p8s&list=RDjc62GZC5p8s&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RydMnTCwJvQ [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1bfAmz05Do&list=RDY1bfAmz05Do&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GUzJ7fQBtg [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0Jn1mpWyg [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0vFOax7ZeU&list=RDk0vFOax7ZeU&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhiK7ldzP7s&list=RDvhiK7ldzP7s&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYFBZkN-3ag&list=RDGYFBZkN-3ag&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
Why is the coda of 4th sonata so peak? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqOicJVsEbATop 3 codas of all time: this, ballade in f minor, appassionata.
>>128879910But my favorite interpretation is Sofronitsky'shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5MFrX8yWhsI get the musical equivalent feeling of looking at a delicious cheesecake on a plate in front of you with an empty stomach, while listening to this coda, if you get me
>>128879910Scriabin's 5th etude in e major op 8 and well as some of the early preludes converted me, but it was you mentioned that convinced me he was a God
>And so, by way of conclusion, I should like to say something about the overall impression which this performance of Der Ring des Nibelungen has left me with. Firstly, it has left me with a vague recollection of many strikingly beautiful musical features, especially of a symphonic kind, which is very strange, given that Wagner least of all intended to write operas in a symphonic style. Secondly, it has left me with respectful admiration for the author's tremendous talent and his incredibly rich technique. Thirdly, it has left me with misgivings as to whether Wagner's view of opera is correct. Fourthly, it has left me greatly exhausted, but at the same time it has also left me with the wish to continue my study of this most complicated work of music ever written.>Even if Der Ring des Nibelungen seems boring in places; even if there is a lot in it which remains unclear and incomprehensible when listening to it for the first time; even if Wagner's harmony is sometimes marred by excessive intricacy and refinement; even if Wagner's theory is mistaken; even if there is quite a large dose of aimless quixotry [28] behind this theory; even if his huge work is condemned to rest in eternal sleep in the deserted vault of the Bayreuth Festival Theatre, leaving nothing else behind other than legendary memories of a gigantic endeavour which for a while became the focus of the whole world's attention—even if that were to happen, it is still the case that Der Ring des Nibelungen will always constitute one of the most significant phenomena in the history of art. Whatever one thinks of Wagner's titanic work as such, nobody can deny the greatness of the task he has carried out or the strength of his spirit, which impelled him to complete what he had once begun and to realise one of the most tremendous artistic projects ever conceived by the human mind.
Oi Norseposter, what are your favorite Chopin pieces? I know you like Shubert, but I can't help but feel like his piano pieces are of no good quality. I was just listening to D. 840 and frankly thought the first minute and a half was absolutely dreadful. I doubt I would ever really get super deep into Chopin, but I'm just exploring around atm. >>128879910>>1288799514th was a great sonata, still much structured and pointed compared to his works afterwards, yet not as conventional and uninspiring as his earliest ideas. The perfect middle ground. The coda of this that reminds me in some ways of Medtner, you'll find the same dense textures and fiery emotions, although Medtner is removed of outright ecstasy that Scriabin so often likes to indulge in. >>128879951I prefer Pogorelich most of all for its recording. Sofronitsky's performances are all great, but the recording quality on them all is atrocious, the high notes are shrill and some of the lower notes are blended together hurting the overall texture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9BZWNBFV1U>>128880040Op. 8 No 12 is a truly fantastic piece, not often a short work like that is so memorable.
>>128874619> That's certainly too broad a definition for my (and I think most people's) idea of ecstasy.> We definitely have two very different ideas of what 'ecstasy' means in music.Please describe ecstasy then.
First time listening to Alkan, seems rather fantastic. Apparently he was friends of Chopin, but in form he seems rather distant, no?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Z5P1gAjyE
Having to do three (3) three fucking captchas just to reply to garbage posts really is the worst. Is there even a point in coming to 4cuck.org anymore? What a fucking awful site its turned into. >>128840545>If Bach lived today he would be crafting post-african repetitions beep boops that aren't even contrapuntal and are at times nothing but random evolving rhythms.
If Beethoven lived today he would play metal to represent his struggles.
>>128881697Jute Gyte.
>Glazunov, Rimsky and Rachmaninov were discussing the Piano Concerto and they were all in agreement that it was a terrible and dreadful work. One said, “Scriabin has lost his mind!” Another replied, “He never had a mind to lose!”.
>>128881684I find the new captcha rather convenient and easy.
>>128881864>I find doing three captchas to be preferable to doing oneOnly on 4cuck.org will you hear this type of nonsense.
>>128881963Skill issue, I still only have to do one.
>>128881862>He was effeminate, a real pansy.>His hatred of Christ was shown when he said that he was greater than Christ and said he could walk on the waters of Lake Geneva and prove this. His attempt resulted in having to be rescued from drowning. This is another example of his madness.>Even as a child, he was deemed to be mentally ill and all his life he was.>A Scriabin prelude lasting 40 seconds which has nothing to say is hardly good music and certainly not great music. And yet there are people who complain that modern music has no tunes. Neither has much Scriabin!>I am sure the Russian pianist who said that Scriabin’s music was ‘just notes, just bloody notes’ is right.>He was a notorious drunk and much of his music was written under the influence of alcohol which resulted in poor quality and incoherence in his music.>He was a megalomaniac. Megalomania is a very serious psychopathological disorder characterisedby personal power and self-importance. Not only was he into spiritualism but other dangerous cults and promoted them.>Scriabin was effeminate and that is a worrying mental condition. Effeminacy is in this piece.>Like Nietzsche, he campaigned against morality so he could force sex on any girl or woman>He resigned from the Conservatory over yet another sex scandal. Not only was he a paedophile, he was a rapist
https://youtu.be/U7BqVavXID0?si=guB4QRJKwomw8ACwThis is it. The peak, the finale. The end of music. Nothing can be ever greater then this, nothing can ever last as this will. Nothing will surpass this.How can you literally perfect "perfection"?Wagner did it, HE ENDED FUCKING MUSIC ITSELF.
>>128882149>>128881862Who are these quotes from exactly?>>128881989Fuck you.
>>128882194>le epic soaring melodies and fire truckingRomanticlowns should stay away from anything related to orchestra.
>>128882200>Who are these quotes from exactly?David Wright's essays
>>128882350>David Wright>music criticLol.Lmao.
>>128882219please don't reply to a guy who has been spamming the same shit for 5 years
>>128882219Listen. This is /classical/, not "plebbit". We only discuss patrician refined music here. You are on the wrong bus stop, but instead of being a civil individual and leaving, you are instead creating a "ruckus" for the other waiting passengers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMw0EjLFPXw Wagner showed us the dangers of being a "faustian" man, not with long essays and tedious literature, but with elegant sound and smooth instrumentation. You are the devil, "Mephistopheles" trying to seduce us poor souls into degeneracy.
>>128882658>doing triple captchas for a copypasta
Well that's it, the fix is in! These are the best composers, represented in correct order, objectively speaking.
>>128882685>Popularity contests = objective greatnessThank you for the copy paste bait.
https://youtu.be/QgIq1P7OQyw"Though the brevity of these pieces is a persuasive advocate for them, on the other hand that very brevity itself requires an advocate."Consider what moderation is required to express oneself so briefly. You can stretch every glance out into a poem, every sigh into a novel. But to express a novel in a single gesture, a joy in a breath -- such concentration can only be present in proportion to the absence of self-pity."These pieces will only be understood by those who share the faith that music can say things which can only be expressed by music."These pieces can face criticism as little as this -- or any -- belief."If faith can move mountains, disbelief can deny their existence. And faith is impotent against such impotence."Does the musician know how to play these pieces, does the listener know how to receive them? Can faithful musicians and listeners fail to surrender themselves to one another?"But what shall we do with the heathen? Fire and sword can keep them down; only believers need to be restrained."May this silence sound for them."-Arnold Schoenberg
>>128878848Lortzing's great but I don't understand how anyone could think he's greater than Weber. Maybe Mahler's idea of 'perfect' doesn't coincide with greatness.
Habahttps://youtu.be/lL4MstnX5NY
>>128880332>Wagner's harmony is sometimes marred by excessive intricacy and refinementThat's one of Wagner's virtues. Tchaikovsky's harmony is too simple.
>>128880477>what are your favorite Chopin pieces?4th ballade stands as one of, if not the highest achievement of piano music. Generally all late Chopin is in the same league: polonaise-fantaisie and cello sonata - very Beethovenian, motivically and contrapuntally driven pieces. Barcarolle, ballade no.3 and sonata no.3- drenched in the Italian bel canto, the second theme of the 1st movement for example, is mindblowingly brilliant 2-minute long 'aria'. Late nocturnes op.48, op.55 and the last 2 op.62. And Scherzos, the beautiful 2nd, fiery 3rd, and more elaborate 4th. Now his early pieces such as 1st concerto and 1st ballade are equally as charming and genius especially regarding the melodicism. But concerto for example, is flawed in orchestration mainly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QXz8-rQ2hEBallade no.4 is one of the rare pieces that I just can't find a perfect or even "good" recording of because of my strong attachement to it. All the great interpretations have something so irreplaceably good about them that when others play it any other way, it feels wrong. The only recording that comes close to perfection is by Josef Hofmann, greatest 20th century pianist to whom Rachmaninoff dedicated his 3rd concerto to. But the recording quality is so awful it's barely listenable. The way he handles rubato/bel canto, and each inner voice like a true polyphony makes me ecstatic. But Horowitz is close, and recording is pretty good.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h19WVxSpaskZimerman is technically flawless, and even his coda of the Barcarolle is unmatched, but his tone and rubato not enough. My preferred recordings are all hissy so I'm posting the best of the non-hiss.(1/2)
>>128880477>>128883032https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BaLVjoLUAQThe nocturnes, all of them are brilliant but 48, 55 and 62 are all must listen. The 48/1 is the most dramatic and the reprise of the main theme is where Scriabin derived the coda of 4th sonata from I believe, and certainly Scriabin's beautiful Impromptu 12/2 - which you should check out if you haven't. Preludes, waltzes, etudes, they're all short and beautiful, I would start there.>but I can't help but feel like his piano pieces are of no good quality.Listen to the last 3 sonatas, esepcially the D960 which is along with Chopin's 3rd and Beethoven's 30th sonatas my all-time favorites. I honestly don't remember D840 that well, I'm sure it's charming but nowhere near the level of D960.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOUNRRAFozA&list=OLAK5uy_k1B2bvvQFjKBmLX58XpJrZABfDn-Vx-5k&index=9First movement is so good, especially the development section at the end. Ans the last movement is an earworm. Besides, listen to perhaps his most important piece String Quartet no.14 'Death and the Maiden' if you haven't already.>compared to his works afterwards, I think his late works are just as structured motivically, but the lack of tonality doesn't allow for as much cohesiveness as his middle/early works. That said, I like 7th as much as 4th, and it's his late work.>Pogorelich My problem is that he bangs on the keyboard too much, and doesn't play with proper romantic expression.And on the last note, I highly suggest you get into Mahler, start with any symphony you'd like, they're all vastly different, but the 9th is the one I feel you will enjoy the most, I can't stop listening to it these days! It might take you some time to click though (2/2)
What piece has made you cry
>>128883144https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQBNDnrS8HY
>>128879668>no Bibercringe
Schmelzerhttps://youtu.be/UAicD4-JXWI
>>128883144https://youtube.com/watch?v=YAWobfclhGo
>>128883144Nocturne in C minor op.48
Composers you wish had written a requiem?
>>128878794Donald Runnicles>>128878796kill yourself
>>128882200>>128882401here:>https://silo.tips/download/scriabin-and-mental-illness-david-c-f-wright-phdenjoy
>>128883421BachBeethovenWagner
What are the best recordings of Brahms final solo piano pieces?
>>128882194>HE ENDED FUCKING MUSIC ITSELF.more like he ended fucking up music itself
>>1288792132, 10, 15 and 18
VERY good recording
bach was ai music 300 years before ai existedhell an ai would have better taste
>>128879727Schumann’s piano pieces alone (to name but one work) prove that you do not need atonality to express the full range of human emotions. Any suggestion otherwise is sheer absurdity. Forms of tonality and tonal organization reign in virtually every form of music produced by every human culture prior to the cataclysm of artistic “modernism”. (Modes, raga, microtonality, etc.)Atonality is, to me, a sign of petty angst, pretense, contempt for other human beings, and a general dearth of creativity or artistry. Good art, to me, communicates to its audience in a language they can understand; it is self-evident; I don’t believe it should require explanation or erudition to be understood and appreciated (though erudition can and should enhance the experience for those fortunate enough to have it.Atonality is, to me, the Ivory Tower of music, a baleful snobbery that deems anyone who points out what is obvious to all—that it does not sound pleasant—as an inferior peasant. I see it as sound and fury signifying something only its composer is purview to—and hence, barely distinguishable from signifying nothing at all.Speaking as a mathematician, it is also an technically insult to noise to compare it to atonality; statistically speaking, random sounds are more likely to have quasi-tonal, modal, or honestly tonal passages in them than, say, your average piece of serialism.I see tonality is an abrogation of music’s inherent teleological capabilities as a narrative art (the narrative being the establishment of consonance, and the creation and resolution of dissonance); analogous to music to what, say, Finnegans Wake is to literature: interesting from a technical or theoretical perspective, and that’s about it.I can’t stand atonality for the same reason I can’t stand alcohol: it burns going down, causing me physical (and psychological) discomfort in the process.Listen to it if you must, but please... don’t say it is necessary.
>>128883577>Schumann’s piano pieces alone (to name but one work) prove that you do not need atonality to express the full range of human emotionshow exactly do they "prove" that?
>>128883571you have literally 0 justification to stay here
>>128883032>>128883082>cello sonataThis seems a bit more interesting than the usual Chopin I hear, I'll try some of the other pieces at some point as well. Some of the cello lines seem a bit clumsy, could also be a bad performance, but I suppose he is a piano composer. >Ballade no.4>bel cantoLolwut. >Nocturnes>The 48/1 is the most dramatic and the reprise of the main theme is where Scriabin derived the coda of 4th sonata from I believeI admittedly have no great fondness for nocturnes or ballades, usually they are a bit meandering in nature, but 48 was nice, I can see the relation to Scriabin's 4th that you mention, just in a more restrained and a tragic setting, rather than Scriabin's ecstasy. >My problem is that he bangs on the keyboard too much, and doesn't play with proper romantic expression.We like a bit of banging here, especially for romantic music, if anything its romantic expression that resulted in banging of the keys so often. Certainly can't say classical or baroque were known for such a thing. I'm sure Pogorelich is not how you are suppose to play the piece, but he adds force and emotion in his own ideal, ones that I enjoy more than a traditional Scriabin interpretation would have, especially for the fourth, which as I said, is a rather fiery piece at its end. Then again, there is a reason I've mostly moved on from Scriabin in favor of Medtner, thats more what I was really looking for. >MahlerI am not much of a fan of irony poisoned composers, nor am I a symphony lover, let alone a romantic symphony lover, let alone the king of fire trucking, let alone the firetrucker that is also as irony poisoned as Prokofiev is. Not sure why you think I would like Mahler of all composers, I would probably be much more inclined towards Bruckner over Mahler, for when I need a dose of loud horn blaring.
>>128883601seethe krautit's hours and hours of brickwalled keyboard shat out onto the page without feeling
Despite my hostility toward the atonalists, my arch-nemesis would have to be the monster otherwise known as Prokofiev. He’s my archetypical example for tonality done in bad faith; he does not respect the chords, he mocks them, flays their skin off and prances around wearing their flesh and entrails twisting everything into ghastly deformities.I’m autistic, and am extremely sensitive to sound. A dominant seventh (or major or minor ninth) resolving to the tonic (not a tonic seventh, just a plain old tonic chord) can send electricity dancing down my spine; what Debussy or Prokofiev or Schoenberg do causes me physical and emotional discomfort. Honestly, i would be much, much happier if I could have positive experiences with modernist creations, but I cannot. It makes me distraught, angry, and uncomfortable. Meanwhile, Rossini makes me smile, Strauss (of waltz fame) makes me dance, and Beethoven makes me weep uncontrollably. No modernist work can get anywhere near to the depth, power, and pleasure (and/or catharsis) of tonality.
>>128883624your first word was "seethe" and your second was a buzzword indicating a particular nationality so I won't read the rest of your post at all because you've shown yourself to be a proud user of 4chan memes and lingo over normal human speech.
>>128883681Correct.
>>128883571Just listen to the stokowski transcriptions and ignore literally anything else to do with bach, you'll thank me later
>>128883650>I’m autisticstopped there
>>128883175I don't like Canadian composers
>>128883650It's amazing in 2025 people are still filtered by the most standard modernism, a movement which began over a hundred years ago.
>>128879194I wholeheartedly disagree with you but I appreciate you have a truly unique taste entirely your own.
Bach's music is perhaps the most monotonous and soulless music I have ever heard. He repeats the same patterns again and again, while the music itself rarely if ever actually goes anywhere. Honestly, a computer could have written that music. It's almost inhuman in its cold, rational sterility. Five minutes of it would put me to sleep, and any more than that and I would feel the need to jump out of a window to escape the hopeless monotony.Even Mozart admitted that it was in fact Handel who was the only one of the great composers up to that point who truly understood affect. Bach seems to have understood this the least of them.
>>128883739If the prelude of the first cello suite does nothing for you, you might not even be human
>>128883722I must impress on you my extreme sensitivity to music. Not only do I have a sensitive disposition, but I am also autistic, which makes my relation with sensory stimuli far more hectic and precarious than what would be the case for the average person.To give you an example of what I mean, my first encounter with Beethoven’s last piano sonata (#32) was in the days when YouTube was still up and coming. I heard the piece played in MIDI format on the website Kunst der Fuge.I had to pause the computer-generated recording of the Beethoven sonata several times, because I could barely hear the music over the sound of my own uncontrollable sobbing. Electric frissons danced down my head and neck. The famous “boogie-woogie” variation of the Arietta left me feeling like the sky and the stars were being downloaded into my body, swirling and dancing.Even now, half of my lifetime later, it is difficult for me to listen to that piece without swooning or crying.It is, in a word, good music.To that end, my first charge against, say, Webern’s Passacaglia is a purely empirical one: I feel revulsion toward it. Yes, there are impressive—even tolerable—passages in the piece, but then it erupts in cacophony or murmurs, and I wince at the dissonances and the unresolved notes.I do not deny or doubt the ingenuity of the piece as a composition. Though the SVS was many things, lacking diligence or erudition was not one of them. Nevertheless, try as I might, I simply cannot convince myself that their works are pleasurable. I would very much like to be able to enjoy this, but I cannot. It is like with spicy food, or heavy metal, or the sound of an electric guitar: it fills me with undesirable, intolerable sensations, to the point where having no exposure to it genuinely leaves me feeling better in mind and body.
>>128883766I hate women.
>>128880496Ecstasy is what I feel when I listen to Jute Gyte. Pure ecstasy.
>>128883766this is without exaggaration the gayest thing I have ever read. you could show me a photo of a male anus gaping open dripping with cum and it would be vastly more heterosexual than what you just posted
>>128883830Nothing gay about it, thats just a w*man.
>I recognize now that the characteristic fabric of my music (always of course in the closest association with the poetic design), that my friends now regard as so new and so significant, owes its construction above all to the extreme sensitivity that guides me in the direction of mediating and providing an intimate bond between all the different moments of transition that separate the extremes of mood. I should now like to call my most delicate and profound art the art of transition
>>128883806This, but for me its when I'm balls deep in a Timberly rawrjob.
Okay, I've now listened to the entirety of two of Rudolf Buchbinder's Beethoven piano sonata cycles, the ones on DG and Sony/RCA, the two newest ones (2014 and 2010-2011, respectively). The DG one is excellent (if memory serves me right), the Sony one is pretty good. Time to try his first set, the one on EMI/Warner, recorded between 1973-1981. Pretty big gap.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTXqJrVrAYg&list=OLAK5uy_kQN3TtOeQMR6n_7y2K9hkc_0rP3_t74Uo&index=77Hope it's good!
>>128883849lol
>I once had a wild six hour discussion walking the streets of New York with Boulez, how he is telling me, he is really telling me but he is using Ives, "Oh, Ives, the amateur!" And I think it's absolutely outstanding, I think it's absolutely incredible why one would think about Ives as an amateur. No. He wrote fantastic things, like the conception of the 4th symphony, I'm talking about the one with the four pianos, he never changed anything, Mahler was changing things all the time. Why was he [Ives] an amateur? Because he wasn't a European? A man does all these innovations, he is an amateur, I, for years, I'm still called an amateur. I'm one of the few original people writing music, I'm an amateur! Is it only that -, I never understood that John Cage is an amateur, I'm an amateur, Ives is an amateur.
>>128883705Correct.
Well I just finished listening to a full Bruckner symphony because of my last post, what a waste of time that was. Back to some proper music.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMOruXvNiS4Really wish Tozer had a recording of the third violin sonata, I have no idea why he only did the first two when he basically has the complete works of Medtner otherwise.
Frank Sinatra
>>128884300don't fret, Derzhavina is very good
>Robert Craft, a conductor and Stravinsky's longtime assistant, writes in his new book, "Stravinsky: Discoveries and Memories," that the composer had several homosexual affairs — including one with Maurice Ravel — during the years he composed his three great ballets, "The Firebird" (1910), "Petrushka" (1911) and "The Rite of Spring" (1913).>Craft writes, "Ravel and Stravinsky were, of all artists, the most successful in concealing their sexuality. The two were time-to-time lovers...." He further states that Stravinsky had affairs with composer Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's eldest son, Andrey, and with the Belgian composer Maurice Delage.
>...It's as though Korstick is aiming not for uniformity, exactly; but for an evenness of tempo, attack, purpose and weight. A constancy, rather than sameness; a reliable regularity in phrasing; this can be its own virtue. Nothing is skewed either to the Romanticism of an Arrau, Van Cliburn or Kempff or to the classical of a Kovacevich, Lewis or Perahia. For every passage of superb clarity, Korstick is equally intent on not over-interpreting or imposing the potentially wayward. At times, it has to be said, he seems intent on pulling the expressive teeth from the warmth and humanity of Beethoven's intimately personal, visionary and highly emotional music. Listen to the detachment in the last movement of "Les Adieux" (no. 26, Op. 81a) [CD.8 tr.8], for instance. For all Korstick avoids being matter of fact, plain or perfunctory, still less never rushes to complete a sequence of notes, his playing – while not lacking spirit or soul – has the quality of someone describing the music to us. That someone is highly gifted with words, to be sure. But they're not building the narrative for themself....>Listen, for instance, to the first movement of the "Hammerklavier" [CD.9 tr.1]. Korstick's playing is neither soulless nor mechanical; it's neither predictable nor monolithic. Yet the soul is a calculating one which certainly hides (or disguises) its warmth. The progression of Beethoven's musical ideas is – if not strictly automated – calculated. While the elements of surprise are present, not so much is made of them as would be by a Brendel or an Ashkenazy. And a virtue is made of not lingering over the phrasing of the repeated rubato figures in such a way as to suggest engagement and affection. Successive movements seem to proceed because Beethoven wrote them; not because Korstick has spent an emotional lifetime internalizing them.This reviewer is such a poor writer, I don't understand what any of this means, what they're actually trying to say.
>>128884369:OOOit's just like my soaps
>>128884373Sounds like he's calling it too impersonal and self-conscious. The first paragraph reports a general impression that his playing is basically smooth and even, neither clear and dramatic nor warm and lyrical, creating a sense of distance, and the second more precisely that the pianist consciously avoids emphasis on moments of surprise or sentiment in the music, as though he is disguising its feeling.
can someone recommend an opera that would be good as a gift? for someone whos not super learned but i know they like opera
>>128884976Figaro
>>128884976Mozart is a safe bet
>>128884976Wozzeck
>>128884976Brokeback Mountain
>>128885108based
>>128883607>but I suppose he is a piano composer.He struggled a lot writing for cello, and it is the last piece he published before his death so it's one of his most mature pieces. Gerhardt/Osborne and Du Pre recordings are pretty good. Took me some time myself to get into this piece, but it's amazing. 1st mov consists of few short motives, which also appear in other movementshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C-iykj3Y1Q&list=OLAK5uy_mUhS9wR18zzcWgXrOOsPq50CTmZI4cqO8&index=1>LolwutBel canto refers to not just specific style of Italian singing but also melodic style AND performance. Here's a great discussion about it, I highly suggest:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osdiIVaqg_MThey explain the differences between styles of 19th century and late 20th century pianism, which differ significantly.>I can see the relation to Scriabin's 4th that you mentionYeah Scriabin loved that technique, in the Impromptu he even uses polyrhythms like Chopin does:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOS0RJ15Wt8>romantic expression that resulted in banging of the keys so often. Certainly can't say classical or baroque were known for such a thing.Yes romantic expression was about "more" but more importantly about the contrast between loud and quiet, not just loud, it's what people often forget. And what Pogorelich is doing is more in line with the modern traditions rather than 19th century pianism and the Russian school. It's still up to preference so I won't argue, all I'm saying is that I prefer more authentic and expressive approach. And sometimes (like in the coda of Barcarolle, which I posted earlier) I also like a lot of loud piano banging.>irony poisoned composers,I can see the 'irony' in Prokofiev but I don't really see it in Mahler in the same way. I though you'd enjoy the 9th since you like heavy, dark, contrapuntal and structured/cohesive music. Bruckner's 7th and 8th are likewise brilliant, but only comparable in length.Also, any recent Medtner discoveries?
>>128882685The actual correct order, from greatest to least:>Chopin (Greatest Man Who Ever Lived Or Will Ever Live)>Schubert>Brahms>Schumann>Beethoven>Mozart>Liszt>Mendelssohn>J.S. Bach>Wagner>Handel>Haydn>Schoenberg>Debussy>Berlioz>Stravinsky>Verdi>Weber>Monteverdi>Gluck
>>128887188>>Schubert>>Brahms>>SchumannMajor pleb taste. Oooohh romantic melodies oohh mildly interesting formal innovation ooohh.
>>128887201You lack the necessary IQ to understand the true nature of romantic music. Schumann might lack the quantity, but by quality alone he's above all humans.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEjhA3QVdJA
scriabin is literally the definition of dry formalism
Is Winterreise the most morose piece of music ever written? OooOOOoOo, Schubert is rattling his chains and wailing at us! Someone lock him in the attic so he'll haunt us no more
