Robert Shaw Christmas Editionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXJbJJ_nNYI&list=OLAK5uy_nksA7ZGzzTdlRmAx6YcKNcgtCD_MuX2EQ&index=7This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenprev: >>128901860
choral conductors love their Christmas albums
Wagner.
Brahms.
Is Brahms better than Beethoven?>his fourth symphony is better than all Beethoven symphonies>he is the best chamber music composer of all time>his opuses 116, 117, 118 and 119 are better than Beethoven's piano sonatas>he never composed a bad opera, unlike Beethoven
now playingBax: Overture to a Picaresque Comedyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYj5cabh1Kg&list=OLAK5uy_myCJzZNw86w6NMFK0dd-yf_0ZDxuXXiN0&index=2Bax: Nympholepthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs7vTwnsMrg&list=OLAK5uy_myCJzZNw86w6NMFK0dd-yf_0ZDxuXXiN0&index=3start of Bax: Symphony No. 4, GP. 307:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g6ZaVAtAxA&list=OLAK5uy_myCJzZNw86w6NMFK0dd-yf_0ZDxuXXiN0&index=3https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_myCJzZNw86w6NMFK0dd-yf_0ZDxuXXiN0I can't quite explain it but something about Bax's music sounds Christmas-y to me. Maybe it's the sloping melodies, the colorful orchestration, and the forlorn yet inspiring drama.
>>128914865really, anon? you really want to spend your holidays intentionally spreading LIES?
>>128914865Only three of those are true.
>>128914893You know damn well only the 4th is true.
I wish it wasn't such a fuckin' pain trying to search for new recordings of Bach's Partitas. You search 'bach partitas' and you get the Solo Violin Sonatas and Partitas too. Okay, so you try "bach six partitas" but then it turns out a whole host of violinists have named their recordings "The Six Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin" ugh, okay, so you try "bach keyboard partitas" only to discover about half of the pianists don't include the word 'keyboard' in their title. Goddamn it!
>>128914976>what is the Bach-Werke-Verzeichnis
>>128914985True but again, not all recordings have BWV825-830 in the title. Some do though, you're right.
>>128914976just search by BWV number
>New Year’s Day 1888, Leipzig, the home of the famous violinist Adolph Brodsky; the occasion, a dinner party in honour of three composers with whose music Brodsky was closely associated – none other than Brahms, Tchaikovsky and Grieg! This marked the beginning of a friendship between Grieg and Tchaikovsky though through their music they already regarded each other as‘kindred spirits’.The same was not true of Brahms and Tchaikovsky who never came to terms with each other’s music – though they had great personal respect for each other. Fortunately, we have several recorded witnesses to this extraordinary event. Everybody spoke fluent German, so that presented no problem. However, Grieg’s wife Nina, who had, most correctly, been placed at the table between Brahms and Tchaikovsky suddenly got up saying:“l can’t do this – I don’t dare to sit between these two”.At which Grieg said:“l DO dare” and swapped places.lol?
In broad terms, Webern's attitude seems to have first warmed to a degree of characteristic fervor and perhaps only much later, in conjunction with widespread German disillusionment, cooled to Hitler and the Nazis. On the one hand, Willi Reich [de] notes that Webern attacked Nazi cultural policies in private lectures given in 1933, whose hypothetical publication "would have exposed Webern to serious consequences" later. On the other, some private correspondence attests to his Nazi sympathies. Webern's patriotism led him to endorse the Nazi regime in a series of letters to Joseph Hueber, who was serving in the army and himself held such views. Webern described Hitler on 2 May 1940, as "this unique man" who created "the new state" of Germany; thus Alex Ross characterizes him as "an unashamed Hitler enthusiast".
However, Krasner was particularly troubled by a 1936 conversation with Webern about the Jews, in which Webern expressed his vague but unambiguously anti-Semitic opinion that "Even Schoenberg, had he not been a Jew, would have been quite different!" Krasner remembered, perhaps with the benefit of hindsight at the time (1987), that "Jews ... were at the center of the difficulty. Those who wanted to, put the blame for all this calamity, for all this depraved condition, on the Jews who had brought it with them—along with a lot of radical ideas—from the East. People blamed the Jews for their financial worries. The Jews were, at the same time, the poverty-stricken people who came with nothing, and the capitalists who controlled everything."When once asked by Schoenberg about his feelings toward the Nazis, Webern nonetheless sought to allay Schoenberg's concerns; similarly, when in 1938 Eduard Steuermann asked Krasner about rumors of Webern's possible "interest in and devotion to the Nazis" on Schoenberg's behalf, Krasner lied by denying the rumors categorically and entirely. As a result, Schoenberg's Violin Concerto of 1934 (or 1935)–36 continued to bear a dedication to Webern, although whittled down as a result of Schoenberg's continuing suspicions or, indeed, on Webern's behalf, i.e., to protect Webern from further Nazi suspicion and persecution. Schoenberg's tone was ultimately conciliatory in remembrance of both Berg and Webern in 1947: "Let us—for the moment at least—forget all that might have at one time divided us ... even if those who tried might have succeeded in confounding us."
>>128915128>heil Hit–ACK!
Ruth Laredo's Scriabin, yay/nay?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkHsZ7MLRbM&list=OLAK5uy_me7ZpOMcdPl-wqg3jKs1fafhDzztXAY7Q&index=6
Musicologist Richard Taruskin describes Webern accurately if vaguely as a pan-German nationalist but then goes much further in claiming specifically that Webern joyfully welcomed the Nazis with the 1938 Anschluss, at best extrapolating from the account of his cited source Krasner and at worst exaggerating or distorting it, as well as describing it sardonically as "heart-breaking". Taruskin's authority on this delicate issue must be credited, if at all, then only with the significant limitations that he has been polemical in general and hostile in particular to the Second Viennese School, of whom Webern is often considered the most extreme and difficult (i.e., the least accessible). New Complexity composer and performer Franklin Cox not only faults Taruskin as an inaccurate and unreliable historian but also critiques Taruskin as an "ideologist of tonal restoration" (musicologist Martin Kaltenecker similarly refers to the "Restoration of the 1980s," but he also describes a paradigm shift from structure to perception). Taruskin's "reactionary historicist" project, Cox argues, stands in opposition to that of the Second Viennese School, viz. the "progressivist historicist" emancipation of the dissonance. Taruskin himself admits to having acquired a "dubious reputation" on the Second Viennese School and notes that he has been described in his work on Webern as "coming, like Shakespeare's Marc Anthony, 'to bury Webern, not to praise him'".
>>128915166>>128915147>>128915128so... it was all bunk and you just wasted all of our time
As might be expected, the young Webern was enthusiastic about the music of Ludwig van Beethoven, Franz Liszt, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Franz Schubert ("so genuinely Viennese"), Hugo Wolf, and Richard Wagner, visiting Bayreuth in 1902. He also enjoyed the music of Hector Berlioz and Georges Bizet. In 1904, he reportedly stormed out of a meeting with Hans Pfitzner, from whom he was seeking instruction, when the latter criticized Gustav Mahler and Richard Strauss. In 1908, Webern wrote rapturously to Schoenberg about Claude Debussy's opera Pelléas et Mélisande. He conducted some of Debussy's music in 1911.Some of Webern's earlier thoughts (from 1903) are as amusing as they might be surprising: besides describing some of Alexander Scriabin's music as "languishing junk," he wrote of Robert Schumann's Symphony No. 4 that it was "boring," that Carl Maria von Weber's Konzertstück in F minor was passé, and that he found Johannes Brahms's Symphony No. 3 (which struck Eduard Hanslick as "artistically the most nearly perfect") "cold and without particular inspiration, ... badly orchestrated—grey on grey." These youthful impressions are in some, but not complete or altogether necessarily very significant, contrast to the considered opinions of Webern in the 1930s, by then a decided nationalist who, as Roland Leich described, "lectured at some length on the utter supremacy of German music, emphasizing that leading composers of other lands are but pale reflections of Germanic masters: Berlioz a French Beethoven, Tchaikovsky a Russian Schumann, Elgar an English Mendelssohn, etc." After all, even when young, Webern had described one of Alexander Glazunov's symphonies as "not particularly Russian" (in contrast to some of Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's music at the same all-Russian concert) in the same passage as he praised it.
>>128915128>>128915147>>128915166>>128915188Something about this writing style is making my head hurt
Merry Noel Classical, Christian Baroque and Russian music for all!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJYUDy1Q69g&list=RDdJYUDy1Q69g&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMGKtXElgvA&list=RDMMGKtXElgvA&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc62GZC5p8s&list=RDjc62GZC5p8s&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RydMnTCwJvQ [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1bfAmz05Do&list=RDY1bfAmz05Do&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GUzJ7fQBtg [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0Jn1mpWyg [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0vFOax7ZeU&list=RDk0vFOax7ZeU&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhiK7ldzP7s&list=RDvhiK7ldzP7s&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYFBZkN-3ag&list=RDGYFBZkN-3ag&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
More Christmas because its Christmas tomorrow /classical/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeGkNe5oRYo&list=RDPeGkNe5oRYo&start_radio=1 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNQpbtpaOz4 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mapXm4Zy-Vs&list=RDmapXm4Zy-Vs&start_radio=1 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxKFkGDiD0&list=RDcDxKFkGDiD0&start_radio=1 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOMnYNLpt7k&list=RDjOMnYNLpt7k&start_radio=1 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdxZhmylG-I&list=RDwdxZhmylG-I&start_radio=1 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY4wRVREgB8&list=RDpY4wRVREgB8&start_radio=1 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYD6l5Wg5SQ&list=RDdYD6l5Wg5SQ&start_radio=1 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0Jn1mpWyg [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3mkuLjAEqg&list=RDU3mkuLjAEqg&start_radio=1 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU&list=RDusfiAsWR4qU&start_radio=1 [Embed]
speaking of Christmas, let's not forget one of its masterpieces<----https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAuJ1LAaQE&list=OLAK5uy_nIjTV4LmUsrwuVhJFzyV6sAuleNOZL5iM&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FE7H-H72UY&list=OLAK5uy_nIjTV4LmUsrwuVhJFzyV6sAuleNOZL5iM&index=8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-0iQG6B4A&list=OLAK5uy_nIjTV4LmUsrwuVhJFzyV6sAuleNOZL5iM&index=9https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0qfj_nfSEg&list=OLAK5uy_nIjTV4LmUsrwuVhJFzyV6sAuleNOZL5iM&index=13and of course the start of the magnum opus itselfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXpMgzhUF8g&list=OLAK5uy_nIjTV4LmUsrwuVhJFzyV6sAuleNOZL5iM&index=14
>>128915530britten sucks cock (literally)
>>128915594*only literally, ie his music ownsSeriously, try one of those links and you'll fall in love on first listen like I did.
Most of my posts are fuckin bullshit but I thank this general for occassioanasly coming up with good music. And by engaging with this genreal I've heard far more classical than I would have done on on mu own. And that's truly beautifuly music in some casesMerry ChristmasJoyeux NoelFrohe Weihnachtenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cSrqRdlFeo
>>128915833Merry Christmas, anon, godbless
https://youtu.be/9GhGuEW4k5w?si=vDPm1Qfkvr3ZZRSg&t=748I am not like other people. I need brightness and beauty and light. The world owes me what I need. I can't live with the miserable whistle of an organist like your master Bach.
Tonality was a mistake and secular music should never have been allowed
>>128917077Hopefully all music tries to find Christ
>>128914865True. 0 lies. Casual romantic music W. Schubert and Chopin as well.>>128914886>>128914893False.
there are nigs who unironically rate chopin higher than Bach
All three of Jed Distler's reference recordings for Faure's Nocturnes are hiss? c'mon man>Reference Recording: Thyssens-Valentin (Testament), Heidsieck (EMI): Collard (EMI)I refuse. (yes I know Collard isn't actually hiss but it's still old)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5m5d8QJ5uk&list=OLAK5uy_m9oL7db083mA78uh8mhRpuqisHM6bggVk&index=10
>>128917575>Thyssens-ValentinIt really is the best desu
https://youtu.be/xpzdB0G3TJU
>>128917580
>>128917580I'll give it a try someday because in all honesty, there's something... off about every modern set I've tried. Could be the work itself, or maybe Thyssens-Valentin and Heidsieck hold the interpretive answers.
>>128917560Chopin was literally the greatest man who ever lived or will ever live though?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZu5z5u_jM
christmas confession: there are some great long works I love that I've never actually heard the last 1/10th or so of because I've always either fallen asleep, changed it to something else, or zoned out.
>>128917731This is why I rate all music longer than 15 (or less than 4 ) minutes below 5-10 minute long pieces, which is the ideal. No man can say more than Chopin did in the 4th ballade or the polonaise-fantaisie, and they're both around 10 minutues, so what's their excuse? Nothing.Of course I still love and recognize longer works, but their inherent, objective flaw is usually their length. And thus are inferior.
>>128917575>>128917580Yep, it's Thyssens-Valentin.>>128917668>there's something off about every modern set I've triedExactly.>Could be the work itselfI would think that if Thyssens-Valentin didn't exist.Sometimes you just have to accept that there are cases where an old recording is the clear winner. It's not even that bad; it's not like timing, articulation, voicing, rubato, etc. are no longer perceptible. And 50s hiss is still miles better than 20s hiss.
>>128917704name one chopin piece that is better than mass in B minor?
>>128918826I already did. Any Chopin can apply, from mazurkas to the sonatas.
>Like Sibelius, Medtner does not flout current fashions, he does not even deliberately ignore them, but so intent going his own individual way is he that he is simply unconscious of their very existence... he has made for himself, by the sheer strength of his own personality, that impregnable inner shrine and retreat that only the finest spirits either dare or can inhabit.>I love him very much, I respect him very much, and I consider him [Medtner] the most talented of all the modern composers. He is - as musician and as man - one of those rare beings who gain in stature the more closely you approach them. That is the fate of the very few!Medtner lived outside of time, outside of trends, beyond the normal, and into the infinite realm of self-constructed beauty. Not a composer to sightsee, his methods are obscure to those who have not the patience to sit down and truly listen with intent. Only those who see further than the immediate can approach his work, a tune is never being, but always becoming. Fire exchanged for fire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhsD1MeQaXM
Is this supposed to be a Mahler 9-esque piece? Someone mentioned Berg op.6 here a few days ago. I know Berg loved that symphony, as do I, but so far I'm struggling to find the resemblance except a few passages. What Berg pieces are like Mahler 9?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5GzRx38DYk&list=OLAK5uy_lOOh8AQ45oCHhU6_PRH9ZVJx5g11N4cL0
>>128919002They are very similar in how quick one might wish to turn it off and direct your ears elsewhere.
>>128919033oohhhhhh snap!
>Others called it 'long-winded, tiresome, unimportant, in places tawdry, amorphous and difficult to grasp on a single hearing...' - adjectives very similar to those used in spiteful descriptions of many of Medtner's works, which is somewhat ironic, given the dedication. Rachmaninov subsequently lost whatever was left of his confidence and withdrew the concerto until he attempted a final and most extensive revision in 1941 reducing the concerto from a total of 1016 to just 902 bars; most of the cuts are in the final movement. Unfortunately even this did not aid its popularity. It is my opinion regarding many of Rachmaninov's revised works (e.g. the Second Piano Sonata and the Second Symphony), that he should have stuck to his guns as the original versions are usually superior, in terms of both form and emotional impact. The Fourth Concerto is a case in point: in its original version a truly epic work. I find the revised version too truncated; it has lost its violent contrasts of musical ideas, particularly in the Finale, where the Dies Irae-tinged theme has been removed almost completely and the severe rhythmic abnormalities (often quoting or teasing Medtner) have largely been ironed out (probably resulting from conductors' complaints!). The harmonies are less pungent in the revised finale, and Rachmaninov cuts out the return of the second subject, so that instead of an unstoppable, psychedelic coda - which requires such rhythmic precision that if you blink in the wrong place, everything immediately falls apart - he inserts one of his trade-mark 'big tunes' towards the end, a feature evidently intended as a crowd-pleaser, and also present in his overwhelmingly successful Second and Third ConcertosRach couldn't live outside of time, or further than the opinions of the masses. Devoting a piece to his friend, and then severing the likeness of that friend when the crowd disproved. A begger for the cheering of vermin.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MwY03hBHqo
>>128919033>filteredKWAB
Why is there so many classical compositions about Christmas
>>128919228>Why is there so many Post immediately hidden and left unread.
>>128914826Can you like classical music if you don't dance, compose, or go to church? Explain it to me, classical music lovers. Where does the interest come from? Video games, church, or because you move your butts?
>>128919241I like classical music because I have two ears and a heart.
>>128919241Anyone who truly enjoys music on some level will listen to classical, no other genre develops phrases in the way classical does, and you don't need musical education to know that. Listen to enough music and the repetitive nature of pop-music will eventually become apparent. All roads lead to classical.
>>128919241Yes you can and you should. Biggest music enthusiasts don't dance or go to church, but sometimes they compose. How do you even dance to a Chopin nocturne?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOjIVS216U
>>128919295So you don't dance, watch opera, or go to church. So... At least you play, right? There's that autistic jazz enthusiasm for music theory.
>>128919355No, you don't have to do any of that. I started composing long after I started listening to classical music, but onlu as a hobby.
Taneyev violin sonata.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76vVUSCs-zA
>>128919002>When he [Berg] showed me the score [of the March of the three pieces for orchestra] and explained it I remarked of the first visual impression, 'That must sound like playing Schoenberg's Orchestral Pieces and Mahler's Ninth Symphony, all at the same time.' I will never forget the look of pleasure this compliment -- dubious for any other cultured ear -- induced. With a ferocity burying all Johannine gentleness like an avalanche, he answered, 'Right, then at last one could hear what an eight-note brass chord really sounds like,' as if convinced no audience could survive such a sonority; that it did survive it and has in the meantime grown accustomed to much wilder things is surely a sign more of neutralization than of welcome progress in musical perception.>Despite its rather modest proportions when set beside the Mahlerian movements which served as precedents, the March undoubtedly has symphonic weight. Its problematic nature is evident from the fact that even today no one has yet succeeded in a convincing analysis In Willi Reich's book on Berg, which appeared in 1937, I undertook such an analysis. I wrote it under great time pressure and regard it as unsatisfactory. In particular, I no longer think of the third, self-contained entry of the March as a recapitulation. In reality the piece simply moves forward inexorably, much as marches do, without looking back. It is as if Berg had been the first to explore from within a large-scale work the fact that the irreversibility of time is in profound contradiction to the recurrence of an identical being.
>>128919818Adorno is an embarrassing non-entity.That aside, I see faint resemblances in certain passages of the march to the 9th's Rondo burleske, that sound like quotations rather than inspiration. The outer movements of the 9th symphony are very engaging and unique to my ears, whereas the inner movements can be boring if the mood is not right. So praeludium is quite nice as it seems to attempt to capture that first movement:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MWsccFYnJoI still find it lacking in the Mahlerian spirit. Surely, Berg can do better?
Thinking about using Timberly's closed armpits as my own personal fleshlight.
>>128919818One evening in March 1925 Soma Morgenstern went to the Konzerthaus to purchase a ticket for a performance of Mahler’s First Symphony. At the door he saw a very agitated Helene Berg, who implored him for help. Apparently a young man from Frankfurt who wanted to study with her husband had been invited over at three that afternoon and then had simply refused to leave.He stayed for Jause and even after the Jause he didn’t leave, and he talked away at Alban until Alban was quite pale from exhaustion. Alban had no idea what he was babbling on about. After the Jause we told him that we had arranged to go to the concert with Alma and had to leave early to go into the city. He said he’d come along. And he did not leave. He rode with us, bought himself a ticket, came straight to our box, and now is standing in front of Alban talking away at him. Alban sent me down here. After the concert we are invited to join Alma. He’ll certainly want to go. You must rescue us!Morgenstern entered the hall, and what he saw confirmed Helene’s description. ‘Standing in the box where Alma and her entourage sat, was Alban and in front of him a small and, compared to Alban, very short figure that was indeed talking away at him. When Alban saw me he raised both arms high above his head, but not in greeting but like a drowning man.’
Jauchzet frohlocketAnd he shall reign forever and ever
Wagner sucks
Wagner raped your mind.
Brahms made Wagner obsolete.
Probably most bewildering to his protégés was to discover the depth of Brahms’s obsession with Wagner. Once when Richard Heuberger declared Wagner responsible for sowing confusion in young minds—something Brahms had said often enough himself—the rebuttal camequick: “Nonsense, the misunderstood Wagner has done that to them; the ones who are misled by him understand nothing of the real Wagner. Wagner is one of the clearest heads that ever lived in this world!” (Surely he exaggerated for effect.) As to Hanslick’s eternal naysaying, Brahms observed that the critic had “absolutely no ear, absolutely no understanding for Wagner’s work. Hanslick is old and this whole artistic approach is a foreign language to him.” When Hanslick made one of his occasional mild objections in print to a Brahms work, Brahms joked to Heuberger that the critic’s misunderstanding “puts me in the very good company of Richard Wagner.” He even expressed pleasant memories of Wagner’s endless monologues at parties, and as for the infamous personality: “Wagner’s thick-headed conflict-seeking character was necessary to create such a work as Meistersinger."
Tchaikovsky made Wagner obsolete.
>"It seems to me that music in Western Europe is going through a sort of phase of transition. For a long time Wagner was the only major composer of the German school. This man of genius, from whose overwhelming influence not one of the European composers of the second half of our century has been able to escape, stood there in splendid isolation, so to speak. And just as was the case during his lifetime, now, too, there is nobody who could replace him. True, there is in Germany one highly respected and esteemed composer: Brahms, but the cult of Brahms is more like a way of protesting against the excesses and extremes of Wagnerism. For all his mastery, for all the purity and earnestness of his endeavours, Brahms can hardly be said to have made an eternal and precious contribution to the treasure-house of German music. Of course we can also point to two or three other outstanding German composers: Goldmark [8], Bruckner [9], the young Richard Strauss [10]; indeed, here one should also mention Moritz Moszkowski [11], who, in spite of his Slavic name, lives and works in Germany; but, on the whole in the classical land of music one can sense a certain scarcity of talents, a certain lack of life and stagnation. The only place where there is true life is in Bayreuth, in this centre of the Wagner cult, and whatever our attitude may be to the music of Wagner, it is impossible to deny its power, its fundamental significance and influence on all contemporary music."- Tchaikovsky
Upon listening to Brahms' fourth symphony, an embarrassment of sterility shuddered through me. I knew that were I to show this mudswamp of music to the Neolithic ancestors of so-called Brahmsians, the sort of false men who doubtlessly made Venus figurines, they would find it suitable for their crude worshipful mating dances. All at once I felt the brokenness of the cuckold, the humidity of the polycule, all the longings and dissatisfaction of the timid and inferior man contained in that unnecessary music. An inert and sapless art indeed.
Scriabin made Wagner obsolete.
Opera is lowbrow
Leave Brahms to the Apu mommy milkers posters, the impotent gynocentric man who fears the fire of the true Eros that is the creative flame.
Karajan vs Bernstein
what to start the day with...
>Karajancareerist with occasional flashes of brilliance>Bernsteintried to become a conduit for the music to the point where he forgot that he still had to conduct accurately
>>128921176>>128921176Both are god-tier but I give the slight edge to Karajan
>reviewer tells me recording is one of the best>recording starts sounding better to me nowi really am a sheep, aren't i
now playingstart of Beethoven: Symphony No. 3 in E-Flat Major, Op. 55 "Eroica"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBZzjy8vzMM&list=OLAK5uy_lphda-7STkTrNdOzjLGKDElbxViYwfZ6g&index=2How a Great Symphony Was Written (Leonard Bernstein Discusses the First Movement of Beethoven's Eroica with Musical Illustrations) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym1KjscMCLw&list=OLAK5uy_lphda-7STkTrNdOzjLGKDElbxViYwfZ6g&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lphda-7STkTrNdOzjLGKDElbxViYwfZ6gHolidays are for great recordings of classical's masterpieces.
>>128921214Don't be too hard on yourself, this happens to almost everybody.
>>128921235o whoops, forgot this review excerpt that I'm sure no one ever reads but me but I like the gravitas it adds,>Just what was the Leonard Bernstein phenomenon all about? This disc--part of Sony's ongoing series of reissued performances from the conductor's years with the New York Philharmonic--goes a long way toward recapturing at least two aspects of his protean musical career. Bernstein's astonishing powers of communication as both conductor and teacher permeate this account of the landmark Eroica Symphony (recorded in one day in 1964 under legendary producer John McClure); filling out the disc is a lengthy excerpt from his broadcast discussion of the work, "How a Great Symphony Was Written." The charismatic rapport between Bernstein and his New York colleagues crackles with live-wire intensity. Throughout, the sense of excitement in bringing Beethoven's untamable profusion of ideas to life is unjaded. Indeed, it's easy to imagine Bernstein exhorting his players to the explosive power of the score with such descriptions as he later uses in his analysis: the explosive opening chords as "whiplashes of sound," the new theme in the development section "like a song of pain after the holocaust," the evocation of struggle, and--above all--the constant surprises that nevertheless ring with inevitable truth. Bernstein masterfully conveys both deep focus and the larger epic and architectural structure of the symphony but never dams its brimming energy--what a contrast from the mannered style that the conductor would manifest later in his career. It's an extraordinarily inspired performance that does justice to the Promethean range of this music. For a fascinating interpretation of the Eroica in terms of Beethoven's larger political and aesthetic vision, take a look at the Cambridge Music Handbook by Thomas Sipe. --Thomas May
>>128921214Our tastes are defined by others, le individual taste is a meme.
Arrangement of Beethoven's Violin Concerto as a Piano Concerto, interestinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20EzmvEQ4pY&list=OLAK5uy_kyzk6zFAVBZRIY-rnv6BrAl3_Q_kN8JTM&index=27
>>128921237>>128921295thanks for the kind words, merry christmas
>>128921376I don't celebrate goysheep holidays.
>>128921295Only if you're an NPC.
>>128921376Merry Christmas, anon :)
feels like a Mahler 2 morninghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH-uzk22KBo&list=OLAK5uy_lAdKhMRqHqmgku46EYnchabk54Lm6LL-k&index=1hopefully not a mistake going with Boulez/Vienna herea highly positive review of the recording for those who like to read reviews when listening to music -- like me! :3https://www.classicalsource.com/cd/boulezs-resurrection/
I find I can't really enjoy the symphonies of Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven anymore (and a bit Schubert), that classical era orchestral sound is completely stale to my senses right now.
>>128921736Once you get into the supreme romantic music, there is no going back to inferior classical and before, or modernist and after.
>>128921752so you feel me. I still do like Bach tho but absolutely none of his orchestral stuff (the Brandenburg Concertos? yuck! xP)
>>128914826Anyone ripped from met opera on demand? Any issues? What works?
>>128921757Solo compositions are peak Bach anyway.
>>128921757I still enjoy tons of Beethoven, some Mozart and Haydn, but I can't bring myself to listen to them more than once a month. The only Beethoven symphonies I often return to are 3rd and 6th. Bach made his own music obsolete with the Art of Fugue. No other Bach piece offers anything more than that to my knowledge, so I avoid all of it excepting that.
finishing the Ashkenazy Beethoven piano sonatas cycle26, Les Adieuxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35ayAAScXok&list=OLAK5uy_kKPF7Rjd-6tDB-oExD5H6VfVZckHq_95E&index=8327https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpS32oeq38&list=OLAK5uy_kKPF7Rjd-6tDB-oExD5H6VfVZckHq_95E&index=8628https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIckHX4ahJw&list=OLAK5uy_kKPF7Rjd-6tDB-oExD5H6VfVZckHq_95E&index=88Andante favori in F Major, WoOoOoOoO 57https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZfXbVxjM8Q&list=OLAK5uy_kKPF7Rjd-6tDB-oExD5H6VfVZckHq_95E&index=9129, Hammerklavierhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKRI-I8NOj4&list=OLAK5uy_kKPF7Rjd-6tDB-oExD5H6VfVZckHq_95E&index=9230https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_m8g4fhZb8&list=OLAK5uy_kKPF7Rjd-6tDB-oExD5H6VfVZckHq_95E&index=9731https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVPo_Ftz2y0&list=OLAK5uy_kKPF7Rjd-6tDB-oExD5H6VfVZckHq_95E&index=9932https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0jNYb6rrE4&list=OLAK5uy_kKPF7Rjd-6tDB-oExD5H6VfVZckHq_95E&index=102does Ashkenazy have the proper sensibility and spiritual vigor to do a proper job of the late piano sonatas? let's find out
>>128921789Someday, I hope, you come around on the Goldberg Variationshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG8u7LaW-Uc&list=OLAK5uy_lrxSOce_2wQm9SPm6DyU9rO86vhzf8_DI&index=14Godbless!
I am neither depressed or happy. I don't feel anything this Christmas. I think I am going to listen to Schoenberg.
>>128921840It's ok. But what does it offer me that Art of Fugue doesn't? I'd rather stick with Schumann.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU_WJmCVEgA
>>128921924I haven't felt anything on stupid holidays since I was 21. Gradually I lost the ability to enjoy n*rmalgoy activities, and began to resent them. Schoneberg sounds perfect for that mood, chamber symphony no.2 maybe? Not the serial nonsense.
>>128921964I was listening to String Quartet no 4.
>>128922008Can you hum the primary tone row? Did you memorize it or did it 'click' immediately? Do you recognize it in every form and transformation that Schoenberg presents? If I were able to do that with little effort I'd probably enjoy it.
>>128921925Simply put, the GV is upbeat, jovial, vivacious. AoF is contemplative, spiritual, introverted.
How much does conductor really matter
>>128922096Just listen to e.g. the Berliner Philharmoniker playing the same piece under different conductors and you will see.
>>128922096The performers in general, from the conductor to the orchestra to the soloist musicians, matter quite a bit. One performance of a piece might not click with you at all, yet when you listen to another, the piece begins to come alive.
>>128922053No, gods no. I am bad at humming and whistling. I find it repulsive when I murder or mess up the tune. Regardless hurwitz and his videos have forced me to try String Quartets. It is the first time music has started battling with my conscious. I will like String Quartets and I will master them, even if I have to destroy my thought process. Either me or the art will remain.
>>128922096You tell me:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OOVuP7Ehshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKB80dZLxQUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQOfydpwM8Yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsZuSA6u1VkJust sample the first minute of each and it'll tell you everything you need to know about how much the particular recording with its particular performers and particular interpretation matters.
now playingstart of Chopin: Four Balladeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC4mTThgF2c&list=OLAK5uy_lJoxB6K0YqaT3k0LN0RGVbaaA_MnzVAQ4&index=2start of Chopin: 3 Impromptushttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeIs0ChByxM&list=OLAK5uy_lJoxB6K0YqaT3k0LN0RGVbaaA_MnzVAQ4&index=6Chopin: Fantaisie-impromptu in C-Sharp Minor, Op. 66https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUCdCrX3a6w&list=OLAK5uy_lJoxB6K0YqaT3k0LN0RGVbaaA_MnzVAQ4&index=8https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lJoxB6K0YqaT3k0LN0RGVbaaA_MnzVAQ4felt like trying a new, recent recording of Chopin's Ballades and this is the first one I came across with a decent amount of ratings and streams (aka not some random no-name).
>>128922091All that applies to some of the fugues and passages from AoF. I meant from the purely musical perspective, what does GV offer us that AoF doesn't? Some kind of hidden fugal techniques I don't know about? Everything GV does, AoF does in the twice as intricate and structured manner. The rest of Bach is all the same, static polyphonic blob of sound. If I listen to rococo strict counterpoint, I want it to be its best representation, not some inferior versions of it.
>>128922213>I meant from the purely musical perspective, what does GV offer us that AoF doesn't?...that they sound different.AoF is undeniably more complex but that's not the end-all-be-all.
>>128922234 Rococo music is static, it doesn't change tempo, loudness, mood, tonality, doesn't modulate far, it's static. Strict counterpoint offers polyphonic complexity, nothing else to my knowledge.
>>128922213>>128922281You might as well say you only need one part from the AoF because they're all the same.
>>128922161Damn, this looks kinda like my last ex, only older and not as cute.
>>128922289False. AoF in its entirety presents every fugal and contrapuntal technique known up until Bach's death. A single fugue doesn't contain everything, BUT if XIV was finished, you'd be probably right. It was supposed to be a quadruple fugue, containing everything from stretto, augmentation to chromatic subjects and their inversions. It would be the one fugue to end them all.
>>128922125>Worship eceleb Midwitz to the point where you force yourself to listen to something you hate over and over again all to cement your loyalty to some obese retarded bagel baker who hates Bach and every Baroque because of antisemitismEceleb worshippers might be the most embarrassing people on this earth.
>>128922161>female performerNot listening!
>>128922359It is kinda respectable tho. I wouldn't do it, but kudos to him.
>open Midwitz video on baroque>spends majority of it saying its all awful background elevator music and shitting on European cathedrals and Baroque architectur - to quote: "when the teacher asked us how to know if something was Baroque, I would answer with 'because its terrible!'>Further down the line - "and another thing, I was terribly put off and so offended because of the texts, which were because of my own upbringing in a racist community, which was rife with antisemitism"Stunning stuff, what a fat ugly subhuman. >>128922393If it was of his own volition, sure, when its just because of the worship of some semitism eceleb? Nah.
>>128922410>"when the teacher asked us how to know if something was Baroque, I would answer with 'because its terrible!'kek. Based 'witz.
>>128922368a-anon, be reasonable
>tfw a 'female performer' has the best recording of both Chopin's and Rachmaninoff's Etudeslink to her Scriabin 10https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdngfCTgt54&list=OLAK5uy_kSneUdzOZh_FRdKhR2agUz4uKeY-LQ2AQ&index=36
>>128922427Peak witticism for Midwitz and his lowwit cult, I'm sure. https://youtu.be/2HynpKOlESU?t=23There is nothing more antisemitic than beautiful architecture and European nationality. We can only thank that great desert people for their grand contributions to art, such as the "International Style", and the 12 tone system. יברך אותך !
>>128922500>female performerPost immediately hidden and link left unclicked.
Antonio Salierihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Mj3ybZmmohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxWeoDPrn9whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQp_p0-oQrghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcK8Xzhh1DAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qsc5-Vm4Bkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiDroZRF7YAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da_esQ0XFBEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvmQA60UXzohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUATooCTIEshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ss1CrilVO0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO3ql93tUVohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCJo_a1Z2I0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gtqYD0n0U0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpjK3VsIq8Uhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uNbXpMVgaohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnI0EZfAdDIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RgmDK3DoWghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGefRFFVRh0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh-8d4dcKAEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HMPpcHMhdwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnYt6rLbY5chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWUa8phjjm8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4nCGTaEmR4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkTHYgZhgSkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOx1QlmipHshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpyIah8fnbkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF8NVzUQQCUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDx1hEAS6Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQBGawSCnichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PdxccETDukhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seqwy6JXFoQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUJkROWNROU
>tfw a 'female performer' has (one of) the best Beethoven piano sonatas cycle(s)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wueeyMT7E5c&list=OLAK5uy_mJBG-0UYD6UZt9tqrqzP2FvO2oiHqmEO0&index=72
>>128922550Thanks simp.
>>128922368>>128922528I'd bet my balls you wouldn't even be able to tell blindfolded if it was female or male
>>128922556insecure male successfully threatened
>tfw a 'female performer' has (one of) the best Bach Sei Solo cycle(s)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giT1nSQBPZc&list=OLAK5uy_kCNAQahZ3iQRgzkqNAG17LPKfOjc1xPPQ&index=27
>>128922595like it's hard?
>>128922572Low quality and undeserving of even being posted = female. Sort of like if you blindfolded someone and only show the speed of a pitch, one could tell the gender of the ballbase pitcher. >Ehrm thats a physical thing, CHUD, women are equal in the mental area!!!!Chess, video games, math, science, etc. All still dominated by men. Women are only posted because the poster is one of the following 1) Simp.2) A female who can't accept the higher limits of men/3) Transgendered male who promotes women because they wish they were one.4) Ideological political driven madness (simp but justified with nonsense about equality that not even he believes is real)>>128922595>>128922597>t. female/transgender
>>128922626fragile tiny-ween male in flight more
>>128922639Female tries not to mention cock or her vagina within two posts challenge: clearly impossible.
>>128922649cowering, shaking, absolutelly mentally ruined little man
>>128922663
>>128922670>h-ha, gotem ;_;
>>128922694Whoops, meant to reply to >>128922663
>>128922705that's so clever and manly of you anon
>“[...] he played me the Fourth Prelude and Fugue (C-sharp minor). Now, I knew what to expect from Liszt at the pianoforte; but from Bach himself, much as I had studied him, I never expected what I learnt that day. For then I saw the difference between study and revelation; through his rendering of this single fugue Liszt revealed the whole of Bach to me, so that I now know of a surety where I am with him, can take his every bearing from this point, and conquer all perplexity and every doubt by power of strong faith.”
>>128922714Thanks. What kind of failed female freak posts on 4cuck.org anyways? How ugly do you have to be in order to spend your time on an incel anime forum?
>>128922626>Sort of like if you blindfolded someone and only show the speed of a pitch, one could tell the gender of the ballbase pitcher.Okay, here's a challenge for you. And if you pussy out you immediately lose this battle. I will provide you with 2 or 3 recordings of the same passage on a vocaroo, however many times you wish (but I'll stop at 10), let's see how many you guess?If you pass, you immediately forfeit that you're as politically driven as it comes.
>>128922729>only women can see me for the wee-pricked insecure fag that I amSorry to break this to you, anon...
>>128922746>I-I am a real man j-just you like you...Women truly are retarded children.
imagine wasting your time engaging in debate with thoroughly indoctrinated amerimutts instead of posting music
>>128922763What, you want me to post dick, thirsty boy? What's the scoop here
>>128922770Boring post.
>>128922734It only works within the context of what is posted to others out in the open. For instance we can all admit there are bad male performers that have been recorded, but no one posts intentionally mediocre male performers here unless the work simply has not garnered enough attention for one. Whereas every female recording is by their nature of a lower quality, inherently so, as proven by the fact women have always lost in every single competition that exists.
>>128922776Do better>>128922784Copout
>>128922789Bitter female who is totally invested in getting a last reply yet cannot rebuttal any statements, well, enjoy it, its all yours!
>>128922784>It only works within the context of what is posted to others out in the open.Yes so I will post top male and top female performers, you will guess which one is female. Are you up for the challenge, or do you forfeit? It would be more respectable if you actually took the challenge, even if you failed.
>>128922807>top male and top female performersAccording to whom and by what metric? For which composers, which instrument, and what pieces?
>>128922816None of that actually matters. You reject female performers, so you should be able to recognize one without an album cover. So have you already given up? That easy?
>>128922849Unwilling to engage in any good faith conversation by answering any queries I have, probably have only bad faith trickery using only the hardest most contrived examples possible, as I would expect of someone like yourself. Politically driven people like you are always like this in the end. Later.
>>128922796>I am so threatened by women that I cannot but assume anyone who makes me feel attacked must be a womanGood luck in life>>128922816>>128922884Disingenuous goalpost-shifting, AND "no-u"-ing. Indoctrinated amerimutts are simultaneously fascinating and dully predictable
>>128922884No, I would use the textbook examples, solo performers. Your willingless to derail this simple task into "uhh, but that's not textbook, that's not this, it's not that" is a sure sign of defeat and peak bad faith.
>>128922884>Politically driven people like youThis much hypocrisy cannot be good for your health, sister
Poor simps and females are all riled up now in a frenzy to support their fellow sisters, yet ask a simp to post his top ten composers and suddenly the room will go.... silent. We ought to wonder if these great defenders of female honor should have a single female in their top twenty...thirty...fifty... maybe a pity hildegard for a few? Oh to be in service to the enteral vagina in words only, yet in reality they are as misogynist as myself when the doors are shut!
>>128922942Words of a loser.
>>128922942excellent schizoposting, sister
playing instruments is a mechanical skill, you act like a machine, just following the instructions of the sheet mindlessly, that's why there are good pianists like Martha Argerich and Mitsuko Uchida.composing is an intellectual skill, you don't see good female composers in the same way you don't see good female mathematicians or engineers.
>>128922942>discussion about interpreters gets out of his control>changes discourse towards composers like a sad loser>>128923010>you don't see good female mathematicians or engineers.Maybe you don't see them because they aren't exposing themselves because if they do they run the rist of having to deal with people like you
Sound is the most powerful force in existence. It has a will of its own. Only a few can tame it.
>>128923010Wagner >>128922942Wagner
>playing instruments is a mechanical skill, you act like a machine, just following the instructions of the sheet mindlesslyall good male interpreters are woman-like, bottom subs confirmed
I really like Fanny Mendelssohns Lieder but yeah it is what it is
Anyways! Back to doing what we do here in every thread of /classical/: posting and discussing men all day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jdAr6nIDM8
There aren't many "great" female artists, scientists, mathematicians and scholars for 2 main reasons:1. Geniuses have extraordinarily high IQ. The gaussian distribution of men's IQ is wider than women's, this means far less genius-type AND far less intellectualy disabled women as well. Of course that doesn't mean there aren't/weren't female geniuses BUT2. Culture has forced people to perceive women as inferior, thus making it impossible for high IQ women to succeed in their pursuit.Both chuds and libshits hate the poetry of reality, because it's not as black and white as their tiny minds like to think it is.
https://youtu.be/iTen8I8szhQ?si=7CeiozqahfegGbnEBe gay. Stop being straight. Kiss yourself in the mirror. Ignore and ghost girls. The Devil tempts you through lust with his most obnoxious weapon that are women.>Hating girls is hating lifeStop reading Nietzsche. He is clouding your judgement. Make your own principles.
>>1289231431. Isn't refuting anything.2. Culture is just the expression of reality, women were perceived as inferior because they were inferior, there has been no successful "culture" that has ever perceived women as greater.
>>128923149This, but unironically; also minus the Wagner pic. You likely have more in common with your fellow male in another distant country/race than you do with your local female.
>>1289231581. I wasn't refuting anything.2. There were and are many cultures which worship women. "Succesful" is an arbitrary criteria that can't be reasonably defined. Anyway, if you're that loser chud, you won't be taken seriously.
Can you homos stop ruining hating women for the rest of us
>>128923195What if homos exist solely to defend women? What if that's how evolution explains homos??
>>128923182>"Succesful" is an arbitrary criteria that can't be reasonably defined. As so successful is an arbitrary criteria when its negative towards women, but when its in defence of women: "thus making it impossible for high IQ women to SUCCEED in their pursuit.", then it was none-arbitrary. Lets be honest here, you're coping. Post an actual successful empire that thought women were greater than men in anything beyond having sex and giving birth.
>>128923182Every culture worships women to some extent but almost none of them think theyre intellectually equal to men and you know this but are pretending its not true because youre in one of the vanishingly few cultures which have decided to so pretend. Granted this same culture is fairly exceptional and so maybe were just right and everyone else was just wrong - but that were basically alone in thinking this shouldnt be denied
>>128923220 Succesful culture cannot be defined, because it's not self-conscious in its motives. A succesful woman can be defined as someone who achieved what they were striving for, be it in arts or science.>>128923225 >you know this but are pretending its not trueHow am I pretending it's not true when I pointed out the IQ differences here >>128923143 ?>Granted this same culture is fairly exceptional It's not.
>>128923266>>128923253>Successful culture cannot be defined>successful woman can be definedYou are such a weasel its insanity. So a woman smoking crack on the corner of the street is successful because she wishes to smoke crack? No, we all understand what SUCCESS means and its social connotations, just like we all understand what success means for a culture. A successful culture is one that dominates and rises above other cultures, and this may be through sheer conquest (Romans), artistic/intellectual might (Athens), or diplomatic/trade genius (British). You are being dishonest and disingenuous with us for the sake of women.
The most German of composershttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQUGB1o-JOw
>>128923149Wagner famously hated women so much that he did not get married twice and did not have multiple kids.
>go out for christmas lunch with family>come home>51 new posts in /classical/>scroll right to the bottomsorry if you had a question I could have helped with
pseudochristian wagnerian incels radicalised by russian psyops, resentfully hating women while larping as manly aryan chads are the most delicate flowers in all of God's pink and lily garden; they must be protected so that the comedy may go on
>>128923401Thank you sister, anything else from the estrogenized side of the fence for us?
At times like these I think of the Master of Music and Poetry in whose name this general was consecrated. Wagner would not have allowed his discord kittens to grow so unruly. With his integral and organic conception of the artwork he would, while paying the respect due to those composers out of whose genius was formed these pristine instruments of musical understanding, recognize these matters as beneath the dignity of the true artist for whom they are but tools of his unified expression. Come, let us embrace one another as sisters and retreat to the seraglio to repose in profound meditation upon the works of the Master.https://youtu.be/yF0pwSC7qWg
>>128923305>A successful culture is one that dominates and rises above other cultures,Dominates though conquest, expansion? In those societies, women were typically excluded from politics, propety ownership and millitary, the avenues that defined "success". If we define successful as culturally resillient, prosperous, influential, then more examples emerge where women had equal, and sometimes dominant powers.
>>128923350True romantic king of melody, second only to Mozart
>anything else from the estrogenized side of the fence for us?
I can't explain why but Hammerklavier is kinda Christmas-yMight solely be because one time when at a family Christmas party my sister-in-law's father offhandedly said he had finally learned how to play it, but there might be something more to it
>>128923431>second only to MozartThere are 2 Germans alone, who are above all but the few Russians, you absolute tard.
>>128923350pop-classicalsalon-classicalbourgeois-party-classical
Don't worry, everyone: All unresolved cultural, political and gender-based issues and problems are about to be resolved forever in this thread. Tell your family and loved ones!
>>128923378>>128923401I see that the spiritual women here have been run through by the "Complete Artwork" of Wagner and turned into gibbering holes with Borderline Personality Disorder towards the composer out of sheer resentment for the sensual mastery with which he united all the classical forms in his music drama. That is the Nothung which has raped to death the Fagnirs of this general, leaving only the superior men.
>>128923453>>128923460Filtered by pure germanic melodiousness! How sad, what a tragic life!
>>128923462>t. pic
>pic relme waiting with bated breath for the resolution of all cultural, political and gender-based issues and problems
>>128923453>There are 2 Germans alone, who are above all but the few Russians, you absolute tard....is my tooth infection finally spreading to my brain or is this post difficult to parse?
>>128923429>If we define successful How can this be, when only moments ago you stated "successful culture cannot be defined"? Or is it now that you can define the undefinable? Or is it that it was indeed definable all along, and you were just crafting rhetorical tricks and lies? Or is it that it was not lies or trickery, but rather you were just speaking without thinking, as you tend to do? Or is it that of course you never did any of that, but rather it was indeed undefinable and still remains as so - but somehow in some magical way - you are now accepting of hypothetical definitions of the undefinable because that is the only way you could justify the past without admitting a wrong?
The word of truth, delivered to me by the universe itself, the unquestionable, uncontested truth as revealed by the universe: the greatest melodists goes as followsTchaikovsky > Chopin > Schubert > Dvorak > Rachmaninoff > Mozart > Handel > the rest of them.
>>128923466From moon beams with hellish be pain joy stormed! Arts and composed messianic human being genius after music but dreams determinedness. Rapturous insane death over-the-top him genius pathologist! Of fabric silks, hell furiously into new self his my physical bodily desire! In artistry woman want but beautifully graceful. Wagner's mind, a tortured soul weaving in silks and roses. No chance. A sick, hysterical man forced the world into his gaze. His ruthlessness genius evil. He was a man of degree that megalomania insanity approaching actual, the lunacy -- self selfishness disturbing man was a being, was frightening. Noble love would. Demons the eyes of penetrating gaze would, like me am men! What love it tragic early romance chorus cries Bace**ck.Abnormal the journey logic through insane force ultimate! Through creation him beauty mystery... seductive man race grand touches itself against fate's enemy struggle--shattered genius.In conclusion pathos linger forever within, collapse reaches joy intertwined last stages, much truth Wagner dies love eternal madness forever unspoken. But Wagner's music was a substitute for a life of violent need... unsatisfied love desire poured, deeply heavy.
>>pic rel>me waiting with bated breath for the resolution of all cultural, political and gender-based issues and problemsx2
Wagner succeeded with his notion of the Gesamtkunstwerk in one regard only: his operas only work because of the lyrics and stageplay. They are way too fucking long to work on musical merit alone; they simply overstay their welcome by multiple hours.
Guys, you're making Wagner look bad...
>>128923476>>128923492give it a fucking minute, they're cooking
>>128923486>successful culture cannot be definedIt cannot be defined reasonably, as I said, it will turn into bickering. Arbitrary definitions can takes us so far. Not reading the rest of your schizopost.
>>128923484The first comma was unnecessary and breaks up the sentence in a misaligned manner. Over punctuation; many such cases.
>>128923484>>128923504Excuse my half assed post, I should get some sleep
>>128923500The wagnersister's spam HAS gotten out of control lately. I rarely even read the interesting anecdote excerpts anymore.
>Richard Wagner famously admired aspects of Johann Strauss II's work, particularly the waltz "Wein, Weib und Gesang," calling him "the most musical mind of Europe," acknowledging Strauss's innate talent for melody and rhythmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwda9IWnxYk
>>128923503>>128923503>Arbitrary definitionsOh sorry, so YOUR definitions of successful for women are truly perfected objective forms, but everything else is merely arbitrary, a very literal case of "objective for me, but not for thee!". Finely finished up with "I am totally and utterly stumped, so I shall pretend to have not read the words that outlines all of my potential counterarguments, because pee-empting counter positions is not good fundamental argumentative practice, but rather 'schizo', a 4chan buzzword that means literally nothing at this point". Congratulations.
Wagner the person is boring and his music's not that good either. Can't we stop pretending any of it is still relevant?
you ARE listening to Tchaikovsky's The Nutcracker today, right, anon? a-anon...???https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex2X2uDRgwY
>>128923564the only decent thing he wrote
Favorite /classical/ topic of discussion?>the religion/atheism debates>who's better composer/artist/x debates>the patriarchy/women debates
>11:09 first movement Hammerklavier>first 15 seconds is silenceare you serious...
Rach the person is boring and his music is subpar. Can't we stop pretending that popularity and influence is related to quality when Medtner was always better?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXcC5xlxf3M
>>128923572>Bach is an atheist :/>Bach is a theist:|>Bach is a crypto-atheist:)>Bach is God:D>Bach is an alien:O
>>128923546I'm afraid he's been outdone. Wagner would surely agree.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bok5aRlejMQ
>>128923553I'm sorry but this isn't merely my opinion, it is the definition of 'success':https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/success>the achieving of the results wanted or hoped for: If you don't like that, fine, just learn the meaning of words before you use them. And fuck off with your essays, fit your message in a few sentences you raging incel
>>128923572the war of the romanticucks larp
>>128923586There is literally no one on the planet who thinks Medtner is better than Rach, not even you. Get fuckin' real. The real contradiction to your post is the kind of taste you need to like Medtner is the kind of taste that would require you to love Rach more.
>>128923594>Bach is a crypto-atheistTrue.
lol blaze it lmaohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0nO1R962kQ
>>128923606>literally no one on the planet who thinks Medtner is better than RachKeep telling yourself that, rachmanletcuck
>>128923606>the kind of taste you need to like Medtner is the kind of taste that would require you to love Rach more.Glad to hear you never listened to Medtner, many such cases. When you give it a try let us know, might I suggest the Quintet I posted?
>>128923586I love Medtner, but I'd take Rach's 2nd symphony over most of Medtner combined.
>>128923572wagner-obsessed barely repressed homosexuals obsessively posting every single quote on the man's private life they can get their hands on like the absolute k-pop-tier fangirls they are is up there for sure
>>128923602You mean the arbitrary definition of one dictionary that includes many definitions such as "something that achieves good results". You are a moron.
yeah what's next, Rimsky's better than Tchaikovsky? Borodin's better than Prokofiev, Myaskovsky's better than Scriabin? get real
>>128923630I would take Night Wind over Rach's entire career tbqh.
There is a linear relation between height and musical talent
>>128923624might I suggest literally almost anything Rachmaninoff composed?
>>128923650>might I suggest literally almost anything RachmaninoffI'd prefer not to. I have Strauss II for my salon tunes, thank you very much.
>>128923496This is maybe true for Das Rheingold, but Tristan, Meistersinger and Parsifal are an endless stream of beautiful music.
>>128923637"Good results" is not reasonably definable, and is far less relevant in this context. The first definition describes the word more accurately, and it's why it's the first definition. Any other dictionary has that definition above the more arbitrary "good results". Anyway, no need to cause bickering, you already took a massive L by not participating in guess female performer contest, shoo!
>>128923401And your simping women :3
>>128923679>>128923679>The first definition describes the word more accurately,>objective for me, but not for thee!You are a moron. Have the last reply, I'm bored by you.
>>128923679https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/succeedApparently not.
>>128921811Very disappointing Hammerklavier, wow. What a letdown
>>128923690Don't bother, hes an ESL from Finland who has himself trapped in an unwinnable position besides to play subjectivity/semantic games forever until you get bored and stop replying.
>>128923647A positive linear relation, in fact. Scarily accurate. I shall add that to my theory of evidence-based quality assessment methodology.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZU9wGVX7VQ
did you guys peep?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1654ozK4vE&list=OLAK5uy_lx84nLbrV-vFcieAQfmeQnXO2RGLseIe0&index=17
>>128923690Apparently yes, look at the second definition, the first one is not relevant in this context in any imaginable way>to turn out wellNow try to define "well", you end up with the same nonsense.
I need Trifonov to record Rachmaninoff's complete Preludes and Etudes NOW
>>128923770>no that doesn't count because uhm uhh it just doesn't okay!!!
now playingstart of Debussy: Préludes, Book 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnkoRA04uPI&list=OLAK5uy_l3-b2lwPmjl0Ufl23IoX7UWkjkbqbZHDg&index=2start of Debussy: Préludes - Book 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMzjwdTPWww&list=OLAK5uy_l3-b2lwPmjl0Ufl23IoX7UWkjkbqbZHDg&index=13https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l3-b2lwPmjl0Ufl23IoX7UWkjkbqbZHDg>Following her acclaimed Brahms release on Signum Classics in May 2021, Leeds International Piano Competition Winner (2015), Anna Tsybuleva, releases a new album of Debussy's 24 Preludes pour solo piano. Tsybuleva has been described by as embodying "superb pianism and intelligent musicianship" (Gramophone Magazine) and "A pianist of rare gifts: not since Murray Perahia's triumph in 1972 has Leeds had a winner of this musical poise and calibre" (International Piano Magazine). Praise for Tsybuleva on Signum Classics "One is speechless. As far as their performance is concerned, the German Symphony Orchestra Berlin, the soloist and the conductor Ruth Reinhardt are an extremely eloquent team that realizes their musical ideas together. You can hear a direct and gripping Brahms, without any airs, without frills - music that speaks to you directly" - Piano News
>>128923776Trifonov's 2nd concerto was sterile as fuck. Why are you so obsessed with garbage? I mean, you wouldn't even be able to tell between contemporary artist X and contemporary artist Y without an album title/cover. Just listen to Buniatishvili or whoever twerks their ass better. I'll stick with good performances myself.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61MiiIVTXQo
>I knew Medtner's name way before that, but it wasn't until about 10 years ago that I started to look at the music. Medtner's music unfortunately is of the kind that rarely makes a first of the best impression at first hearing um it is not particularly melodically generous like for example Rachmaninoff tends to be but I've found time and again that if you give Medtner time and if you give him a second chance and a third chance if you listen and listen and listen again he will reveal himself to you and you will not be able to get rid of him. -Afterwards, he will be always part of you-Medtner vs Rachmanioff is the same feeling of classical vs pop, of depth at the price of your investment vs easy accessibility that leads with shallow impressions.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhsD1MeQaXMRachmanioff on Medtner (direct quotation):>You are, in my opinion, the greatest composer of our time
>>128923786>to come next after another in office or position or in possession of an estateExplain how this can be applied to what we were discussing. If you don't reply you're a certified pussy of the thread, worse than the chud loser.
>>128923821>Any other dictionary has that definition above the more arbitrary "good results". Explain how this statement is predicated on whether the definitions listed in the dictionary can be applied to what we were discussing.
>>128923786I told you its pointless, he'll just keep this semantic warfare up until you stop replying, and then tell himself he "won".
>>128923796Oh we're playing like that? Okay. Lemme try,We get it, hiss gets your dick hard. You're more an archeologist than you are a musical fan to be honest.
>>128923827>shifting goalposts
>>128923842I learned from the best :)
>>128923820Forgot pic related for the first quote
>>128923836You're good, asian nerd.
Can you really 'prove' that a human mind won't enjoy almost everything that is remotely structured, given enough time, by mere exposure effect? You can 'maybe' force yourself to enjoy something, but for what reason? To what end?
>>128923866Yeah go listen to Webern's autistic total serialist pieces, it'll suck just as much on the 20th time as the first.
>>128923866It's the excess need for validation, which is the main reason behind this behavior. People who feel like they can attain status by having peculiar taste in arts, they are the most virtue signaling of the bunch too.
>>128923866>catranny>unable to comprehend delayed gratificationLol.
>>128923883So true, thats why I listen to Drake, only cringecel virtue signalers listen to weirdo shit like classical lmao. If its not good at the first heavy bass beat, and it takes a modicum of effort to understand, then its just a cry for attention, nigga.
Post overrated composers, I'll start:Here I'm tempted to say Mahler, but I'm afraid of getting shot, so I'll choose Charles Ives. Like Satie, Charles Ives wrote several masterpieces, but as far as the bulk of the music goes, I have to agree with Elliott Carter, who once said that Ives is more often interesting than good.
>>128923912>>128923912>I'm afraid of getting shotOk I'll do it for you, because this horn farter is garbage.
>>128923912>Post overrated composersEvery Russian composer ever. Some Scriabin is alright though.
>>128923938>Every Russian composer ever. >Some Scriabin is alright though.Nonsensical post. Of all Russians, why would Scriabin of them have something "alright"? Over say, Taneyev or something.
We prefer Medtner here.
>>128923879not really no
>>128923963Correct.
>>128923966>t. Webern telling people it'll finally click after the 50ths listen
>>128923963Scriabin > Medtner > Feinberg >>>>>>>>> iunno, Luria or something >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rachmaninoff
>>128923879I love Webern's instrumental miniatures to bits, and loved them from the very first listen. Songs and vocal music I can take or leave
>>128923953Seeing as we're talking about overrated composers, you could've deduced I'm talking about household names like Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, and so on. Taneyev isn't in the same league as those in terms of popularity, even if he might've written better music than them.
>>128923912Wagner. Him being overrated is like Mozart being underrated: Never repeated or emphasized enough.>>128923883A.K.A. Wagnerians
>>128924007>Seeing as we're talking about overrated composers, you could've deduced I'm talking about household nameYou quite literally said "Every Russian composer ever", not my fault you only speak in all encompassing hyperbolic language that limits your own modes of communication.
insane how people will flaunt about not being ESLs as if being an angloid is something to be proud of lmao
>>128923912>>128923938>>128923953>>128924010>overrated>underraredLiterally plebbit. All of you. Go back. Reddit dot com
>>128924018You know what: you're right. I should've been more specific. But it does seem to me that, as opposed to the Austro-German tradition where the cream rose the top, with Russians the opposite happened. You've got to dig for the good stuff.
>>128924035>But it does seem to me that, as opposed to the Austro-German tradition where the cream rose the top, with Russians the opposite happened.It didn't. You're just a massive retard with hate-boner for good music. No honest man can say they don't love the fuck out of the 2nd piano concerto or the pathetique symphony.
>>128924043This.
Also>cream rises to the topI don't see Mahler above some of the Austo-Germoid autists? It seems the cream didn't rise to the top properly. Never has, never will.In case of Russians, it did, but by accident.
Milne lacks the will to heed the commandment of Medtner: "The whole piece is in an epic spirit". Otherwise rather well played in general, nice touch for the subtle sections, although I think even those are less ominous than they should be. Also side note, but totally wrong artwork for this as well, marketing failure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KY0IqN9ST0Still think Pogorelich would have done wonders with this sonata in his prime. >>128924035Its because Russia had a big push to craft their own nationalistic brand of music that was separated from German tradition, Taneyev (Medtner's teacher and contrapuntal god) believed it was possible to craft Russian music by using their folk harmony/melodies, but keep to the same standards of Germanic composition and form. Anyways, basically the louder and more immediate crowd won out, so slop like Pictures at an Exhibition are more well known than Night Wind.
>>128924043The Pathetique symphony has some pleasant enough moments but by no means justifies Tchaikovsky's standing in the classical music world. As for Rachmaninoff, I quote Alfred Brendel - "he wrote music for teenagers".
>couple of retards think "cream rises to the top", but only in germany and not russia>I know for a fact, it does not rise to the top, but it did so by accident in russiaIt seems that the lesser functioning minds cannot comprehend reality as cleaely as we do.
>>128924090>by no means justifies Tchaikovsky's standing in the classical music world.Mindbogglingly retarded statement which can be applied to any composer in history of mankind.>As for Rachmaninoff, I quote Incapable of forming your own thoughts aren't ya, lower functioning mind?
>Rimsky-Korsakov recalls what he considered Taneyev's glaring conservatism in the 1880s. Taneyev reportedly showed "deep distrust" in Alexander Glazunov's early appearances. Alexander Borodin was merely a clever dilettante, and Modest Mussorgsky "had made him laugh". He may not have had a high opinion of César Cui or even of Rimsky-Korsakov himself. >Taneyev started playing through part of the manuscript at the piano. "With characteristic pedantry Taneyev began showing Tchaikovsky what he considered to be faults, thereby sending Tchaikovsky into even greater despair. Tchaikovsky grabbed the music and wrote across the page with a red pencil: "Awful muck." Still not satisfied with this punishment, he tore the sheet of music in half and threw it on the floor. Then he ran out of the room. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2PYRtFsd0w
>>128924120Oh you're the tasteless romantislopper who thinks schmaltzy slav piano-banging is the peak of classical music. Carry on merrily ;)
Schumann is the greatest Austro-Germoid after Mahler, he has the fantasy op. 17 and rhenish symphony, but he also has the piano concerto. How do the poor Germoids even compare? More expressive than Bach and HandelMore perfectly melodic than MozartMore organically structured than Haydn and BeethovenLet's just forget the pre-romantic music ever happened, shall we?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E82aQHGvIpo
>>128924147Oh and you're the less functioning mind who cannot comprehend reality very clearly! It's okay, imbeciles thrive in our times.
Most of the Russians are fine, I just don't care for them. Rachmaninoff however is irredeemably worthless.
>>128923912>t. neuroticI bet you like Mozart and other romantisloppers like Brahms and Chopin?
A fancy quote-post to help our lesser functioning minds grasp reality, as they seem unable to do so by listening alone“The Fantasy dedicated to me is a work of the highest class, and I am really proud of the honor you do me in linking my name with so imposing a composition. And so I intend to study it and absorb it thoroughly, to draw all possible effect from it.”-Liszthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGmISHll84
We could just remove everyone before Schumann from history, no one would notice.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C7HoMPJQlg
>>128924211How did this fat chud-lite manage to land one of the hottest babes in classical music?
>>128924221The type of post only someone high on Midwitz's eceleb opinions makes.
>>128924229GOATed talent attracts GOATed women, it is known.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roBGgIkXSu8
>>128924231As opposed to the posts that lesser functioning minds make? Agreed.
>>128924237Thank you retard.
>>128924252Thank you lesser functioning mind.
When David Hurwitz speaks, I listen and learn.
>>128924258Tru
Daddy Dave is wise. We should all listen to him.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9tOcjMcJpI
Any composer you like sucks.
Diabelli Variations is a proof that Beethoven was just on composing spree for his entire life without much regard to the quality.>i'm... compOOOOOOOOOSSIIING
>>128924258Even if you hate him, you gotta admit he's a walking library of classical music. No one comes close.
>>128924324He's living proof that knowledge is not intelligence. Anything smart would just use wikipedia instead of the opinions of an inbred snoz subhuman.
Who are the most exotic contemporary composers? Except the minimalists
>>128924349Uh lets see, we got 12 tone slop, atmospheric Legeti nothingburger slop, and minimalist slop.
Every now and then, someone gets butthurt by Dave for (rightfully) trashing some recording and /classical/ can't shut up about him. Hilarious.
>>128924304This but gross fugue
>>128924398>>128924398>>128924398New
>>128924229She's a normal looking woman and her personality was cold and frigid.
>>128924368There's always some guy crying about Hurwitz
>>128924410So how come both Schumann and Brahms fell head over heels for her?
