Rossini editionhttps://youtu.be/c5NW1oYF25EThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>129158941
Papastefanou's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UYsw_xywQ&list=OLAK5uy_kXJNSZLtsA2smMcjQr2W9jnRdFPZrZNKs&index=1If the album cover wasn't so horrid, this recording would be a bigger deal.
Rememberrr meeeebut forgettt my fateee
now playingstart of Glazunov: String Quartet No. 3 in G Major, Op. 26https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3sohCjvdr0&list=OLAK5uy_lo8iY0RYILdNsrfaPDJx0rCdg0p8SM4Ek&index=2start of Glazunov: String Quartet No. 5 in D Minor, Op. 70https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqwwxshXIfU&list=OLAK5uy_lo8iY0RYILdNsrfaPDJx0rCdg0p8SM4Ek&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lo8iY0RYILdNsrfaPDJx0rCdg0p8SM4EkCan't ever go wrong with some Russian chamber music.
can Pichon record a St John Passion already, c'mon
>>129178856he's doing the faggot mason thing
>>129178856Rossini looks so uncanny in that picture. I much prefer this one
>>129179287He looks normal in the Op. In this one he looks like a shark.
>watching TV show>putatively smart character says: "Beethoven named his greatest symphony number three"wtf, not only wrong but nonsensical
Is it just me or is the Quartetto Italiano's phrasing oddly inexpressive? Very pretty, but rarely do I find their renditions as emotionally powerful as those by something like Takacs.
>>129179441I have the opposite opinion, actually, on both groups.
>>1291793743rd IS his best symphony, dumbass. Only rivaled by the 8th.Although, my personal ranking is following:8 > 3 > 6 > 7 > 5 > 9 > 4 > 1 > 2
now playingstart of Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 in A Major, Op. 92https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbH8RwLFoMs&list=OLAK5uy_ly0TOseuwCcIOuKNPfsTgJ_XRgLVam2dk&index=27start of Beethoven: Symphony No. 8 in F Major, Op. 93:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6K5olQiQI&list=OLAK5uy_ly0TOseuwCcIOuKNPfsTgJ_XRgLVam2dk&index=31start of Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 in D Minor, Op. 125https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdPLngOUjq8&list=OLAK5uy_ly0TOseuwCcIOuKNPfsTgJ_XRgLVam2dk&index=34https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ly0TOseuwCcIOuKNPfsTgJ_XRgLVam2dk
Godowsky's Sonata. Still haven't managed to crack this one yet; it has some very nice melodies to latch onto at times, which is probably the main reason I've stuck with it so often, but the rest is a labyrinth to me. Its the same way as Grande Sonata, both are really tough pieces with enough gorgeous moments that there is an subtle pull or need to come back and figure out the pieces of the puzzle.Also Hamelin's album covers are always the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf5Urbd44z8&list=PL7I3wkfAukSlLQMQzOdnhg8lE-yzoIh3p
>>129179667Jesus Christ...how faggy can you be?
Damn, the sisterposter was right -- all the lesser-known composers I discovered, and now, at the end of it all, I only listen to the same handful over and over because what they wrote was by far the best. Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, some Schumann, maybe Chopin here and there. What else do you need on a daily basis?
>>129179667Thanks for sharing, I've had that album in my backlog forever. Maybe I never got around to it because the name's hard to remember.>>129179759Shut up.
>>129179779All you need are the two Schus, Chopin and Mahler. The rest are cookies for the desert.
>>129179789The exact composition of composers (pun intended) doesn't really matter, it's the principle of it all -- everyone has their own chosen handful. I remember doing everything I could to discover as many piano concertos as I could, now I just listen to Beethoven's, occasionally supplemented by Mozart's and Brahms'. Like you said, everything else is superfluous.
>>129179789>All you need are the two Schustoo bad Schubert only has two listenable symphonies
>>129179805>Schubert only has two listenable symphoniesnow, now. there is no need to be that generous.
Memorize all 123 leitmotifs of The Ring right now:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzFdrDju4Zw&list=PL78TsyiiZjhGNl-civwjVsk_7tn6XG3wh&index=1
>>129179287>>129179307Let's just admit he looks like shit.
>>129179817I've probably memorized at least thirty. how good is that?
>>129179374Kek, holy shit. What TV show was this?
>>129179826He looks dreadfully scary in the OP, the other pic is chubby and cute.
>>129179817>>129179828Drop your top 3 favorite and least favorite leitmotifs now
>>129179830most likely some garbage from America.
>>129179830Killing Eve, S4E5
Are Beethoven's Piano Concertos the most commonly recorded cycle in the repertoire? Seriously, there are so many sets it's actually dizzying. You could listen to a different set every week and it'd take you a decade before you start getting repeats.
>>129179838that's a tough choice. the thunder, magic sleep, and fate motifs are my favorites
Three incomplete Beethoven piano sonata cycles in my immediate backlog; Serkin, Solomon, and Gould. Which to listen to...Serkinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYkySWN8jiM&list=OLAK5uy_lm29X_YVBnbR7o0A1C6vV0mj2vG0F0CgE&index=51Gouldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HCNmTZn5hk&list=OLAK5uy_lweFSuBtB1nA5H-bcecrtWdYeuXCVtuL0&index=43Solomonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgHEPRcPGNs&list=OLAK5uy_kl1pYPhkRop5m9ECqNF0fVbE7FUJKMsZs&index=22what do you guys think? I guess I'm already going through the piano concertos on the Serkin set w/ Ormandy and Bernstein and they're fantastic, so I might just continue listening through, but idk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqPNg_smDE4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMXtTlEmms8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fJQlhTkh1c
>>129179913Gould, we love that autist here.
>>129179838Not a Wagner expert, but:Rhinegold, Renunciation of Love, Tarnhelm, Ride of the Valkyries, Wotan's Love, Wotan's Grief
I was just about to make a post complaining how this wasn't out yet only to see it's in fact now unlocked! Come get it while it's hot, folks.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anPq8tweGOM&list=OLAK5uy_keTyaf7z8DNX6P1eKZiOU-pG2HzSy8Ds0&index=1>These late works by Brahms are like a testament. But what is this secretive man revealing to us here? Or rather, what is he still trying to hide? Hiding it until the very end, arousing in us an irresistible desire to guess what it is? Perhaps that is where the beauty of these scores lies. - Piotr Anderzewski. A short album, a selection of jewels from Brahms' Late Piano works (Op. 116 to 119, with Op. 119 No.4 being the last piano piece Brahms ever wrote) presented in a carefully chosen order. Op. 116 to 118 represent the composer's late piano works, written during the final decade of his life. Here we find a more mature, intimate and subtle Brahms, far removed from the roaring Romanticism of his earlier works.a 48 min recording is kinda weak, esp. when it's only a selection of these op. 116-119, and you can always include other Brahms if Anderszewski doesn't like all of the pieces, but w/e
>Cooper illuminates Bartók’s personal life and relationships, while also expanding what is known about the influence of other musicians—Richard Strauss, Zoltán Kodály, and Yehudi Menuhin, among many others. The author also looks closely at some of the composer’s actions and behaviors which may have been manifestations of Asperger syndrome.
>>129180014Ride of the Valkyries is only "bad" because it has become cliched.
>>129179948Gould can only be liked when he praises his superiors:>It was Hofmann. It was, I think, his last performance in Toronto, and it was a staggering impression. The only thing I can really remember is that, when I was being brought home in a car, I was in that wonderful state of half-awakeness in which you hear all sorts of incredible sounds going through your mind. They were all orchestral sounds, but I was playing them all, and suddenly I was Hofmann. I was enchanted.
Berio/Schuberthttps://youtu.be/NQB5bFTwHfI
For today's opera performance, we listen to Wagner's Götterdämmerung conducted by Pierre Boulez. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7NJFcLYd00&list=OLAK5uy_mW9kgJgXdBv6xR56T0vu7lRlFy8bflDlA&index=151
>>129180089So it's not bad at all, gotcha.Besides, Wotan's Grief is probably my favorite overall.
>>129180094>he was so wonderful that I couldn't even remember the performance, instead I envisioned myself playing in his steadBased Gould throwing shade that you can't pick up on.
>>129180110kek the copium
>>129180101I'mma listen to this, and based on whether it clicks or not, make my determination either to continue trying to get into opera or give up.
>>129180125You should read what he said about Mozart.
>>129180130>either to continue trying to get into opera or give up.Just give up, Opera is hollywood schlock. There is nothing worthwhile about it.
Wagner is sophistication.
>>129180141you will be found and killed.
>>129180141Isn't it basically orchestral lieder? Like Strauss' Four Last Songs, which everyone here including me loves, but on a large scale?
Wagner is the answer to Ives' unanswered question.
Wagner redeemed the world.
Wagner created reality.
wagner sucks
W (pbuh)
Wagner is respected for one reason: the upper-classes insecurity about taste. Wagner appeared when music became widely distributed. To convey that they were cultured, the upper classes name-dropped the most widely distributed composer/s at the time. This is how he became revered - he became the go-to for posh people to name-drop in conversation, and those they talked to copied them - and it snowballed from there.
>>129180163>Isn't it basically orchestral lieder?No, because lieder doesn't have mass amounts of back and forth dialog between characters and plot to get through. The arias of an Opera are like lieder, unfortunately there is an unbelievable amount of shite you have to get through in order to hear them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HamamatylUQ>>129180159All Opera listeners are fat, old, and above all stupid. I have nothing to fear from disparaging it.
>>129180202yeah, and Jesus was just a random carpenter.
>>129179779I'm constantly listening to the Bach sons, Michael Haydn, Cherubini, Pfitzner, etc.
>>129180202>Alkan accurately noted Wagner’s unpopularity in Paris but ‘found it impossible to explain why such rubbish happened in Germany’. Apparently Alkan had met many people, artists and amateurs, who shared the same viewpoint, even if it were not openly expressed. Finally, with an appropriate verbal flourish, Alkan declared that Wagner was ‘not a musician, but a disease’.
>>129179838Valhalla, Bequest and Blood Brotherhood.
>>129180205solution: browse your phone, read a book, or have a conversation with a friend during the dialogue parts. or listen to a highlights album.
>>129179374its strange wording but I'm pretty sure they mean "beethoven named his 3rd symphony as his best one" which is true
>>129180209>Michael HaydnIs he any good?
>>129180205This problem is solved by Wagner's through-composed orientation to opera.
>Vickers enlarged on why he refused to sing Tannhauser. He believes the work is Wagner’s most full frontal assault on Christianity, the title role a blackguard “despicable, arrogant and amoral”.>Vickers takes his stand on “humility before the eternal and the acceptance of justification by faith.” He’s a great Wagnerian singer, yet he has no doubt of Wagner’s evil purposes. He traces a line of corrupt influence from Voltaire and Rousseau through Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Marx to “the greatest evil influence of all that has wreaked damage in our civilisation like no other figure – Sigmund Freud. A controversial opinion, but I have the support of one of the very great minds of this century – Mr Hayek.”
>>129180236Good attempt at a save but the context is them deliberating on the group's name, and after that line, they decide on The Twelve, ie a parallel to Beethoven's Symphony No. 3, "The Third" lol
>>129180238kill yourself, rat face.
I wouldn't mind all this wagnersister talk and worship if they actually would discuss the music and their favorite recordings. Favorite Ring cycle? favorite Tannhauser? favorite Tristan? Okay but how about favorite of all of those released in the 21st century?
>>129180141haven't you already shared this opinion and been ignored before?
>>129180252shouldn't it be "The Twelfth" them?
>>129180261They're trying to save me from forcing myself to listen to opera in an attempt to learn to like and appreciate it. I'm on the fence. I agree with a lot of what they say but I'm not ready to give up on that I'll never enjoy all of the parts of opera music.
>>129180266No, because that's singular. I'm just relaying what happened in the show, anon.
>>129180252>The Twelve, ie a parallel to Beethoven's Symphony No. 3, "The Third" What?
>>129180258these spamming faggots don't care about music, only memes. You have to remember that by now about half of this site's userbase is under 18.
>>129180273I'm mocking the fact that it's not actually named "The Third" despite the character's line, which suggests it is. Unless we're all idiots and Eroica actually means "The Third" lol
>>129180268>they're trying to save me from trying to appreciate a genre which most great composers appreciated because they personally dislike itso they're retarded, got it
damn, this Boulez recording of Wagner's Das Rheingold (I'm gonna try and listen through his entire Ring cycle today) is actually really good. At least the singers are.>>129180274tru>>129180290to play devil's advocate, the argument I suppose would be that those composers and others who liked it were still attending the performances and experiencing the music in context of the plot and rest of the opera. What anon is suggesting is listening to opera solely for the music and completely disregarding the libretto and plot is pointless and doomed to failure. That is the question.
>>129180300>>129180101Why would you ever listen to Wagner, A second-rate wannabe Beethoven?
>>129180300forgot to linkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqyxjQviS9E&list=OLAK5uy_mW9kgJgXdBv6xR56T0vu7lRlFy8bflDlA&index=9You can hear a lot of the characters shuffling about and stomping around since this is, obviously, taken from a live performance.>>129180310I needed something new.
>>129180229>Solution: do anything besides listen to OperaCorrect.>>129180245Ah yes, the problem of having to sit through endless slop driven only by plot and dialog to get to the real music was solved by Fagner via being an even worse case above all others. >Wagner has some great moments, but a lot of miserable half hours
there's nothing more patrician than listening to opera at home/via audio recording
>>129180300Why don't you just read the libretto?
What's better Mahler - Symphony No. 6 (original version) or Mahler - Symphony No. 6 (revised version)?
>>129180355Is that the scherzo swap? I don't even know. I like the original order, scherzo > andante
>>129180348Because I just want good music. When I do read, I prefer reading actual literature.>>129180355I'm gonna assume this refers to the order of the two middle movements? Scherzo-Andante is better, but all of the recent recordings, as a result of the latest published critical edition of the sheet music, does Andante-Scherzo. You'll have to try both and decide for yourself. Most here agree SA is better, however the question is if that's mostly the result of us being used to it, despite the arguments we can make in its favor (symphonic balance and whatnot).
>>129180382>Because I just want good music.Then don't listen to opera.
>>129180377>>129180382I bought the Zander/Phiharmonia 3CD set. It's scherzo first, and it has two versions of the 4th movement. I assume he will discuss this in the commentary disc but I want to listen to the music first.
>>129180382>however the question is if that's mostly the result of us being used to itMaybe, but I think the Andante is in general better than the scherzo, and should not be "wasted" as a second movement right before the finale. Scherzo perfectly fills that spot.>>129180382>When I do read, I prefer reading actual literatureHow do you know if it's good if you haven't read it? >>129180418Probably 1 hammer vs 2 vs 3. I don't even remember how many are there, I think usually it's just 2. Who even cares.
>>129180425>goodOr rather bad
>>129180258>Favorite Ring cycle?Bohm
>>129180425It seems the only difference is the original version has an extra hammer blow. The more hammers the better so I'll listen to that one.
>>129180400Correct.
>>129180492Lol. The hammers are so irrelevant, I don't get the obsession. If it had 0 hammer blows it would make no difference to me, the music is still good. I can't believe they did an extra version just because of 1 hammer blow.
>>129180418>>129180492oh lol, for that Zander CD, yeah, it's just the hammer thing, doesn't matter. It's a great recording, hope you enjoy it.
Haydn sonatas, Pletnev. Hob 20 is among the finest sonata of all time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw3jxDcL22s&list=OLAK5uy_lfyhj_oaqJWSlYdHTsjpO5yx3TreXweSw&index=11
Just listened to Das Rheingold in one sitting, maybe I'm starting to enjoy this opera stuff after all :)now onto Die Walkurehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqhh4jpKcY0&list=OLAK5uy_mW9kgJgXdBv6xR56T0vu7lRlFy8bflDlA&index=44Also my compromise for not reading the libretto is I read a plot synopsis once the scene starts
>>129180757Fantastic piece and performance
I wanna start getting into Renaissance/pre-Bach choral music
now playingRangstrom: Symphony No. 3 in D-Flat Major, "Sang under stjarnorna"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgcNKCCTa3M&list=OLAK5uy_mFv-1180KLoShNXRvwSNa8i-zfAHB-Uvk&index=2start of Rangstrom: Symphony No. 4 in D Minor, "Invocatio"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdC8S2uE9i8&list=OLAK5uy_mFv-1180KLoShNXRvwSNa8i-zfAHB-Uvk&index=2https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mFv-1180KLoShNXRvwSNa8i-zfAHB-UvkSome full-blooded, bold, intensely dramatic post-romanticism.
>>129180928Didn't ask.
>>129179255Dude wasn't expecting have his picture taken and he's about to pull on the camera operator
Anyone here listen to and familiar with Stenhammar's solo piano music? I know he has some piano concertos too. I remember being pleasantly surprised when I tried his string quartets, so this might actually be good.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMTLWzFvKn0&list=OLAK5uy_myLWzsoe4kZ-64PXIItowRS1lG-GcLzfk&index=1
>>129179779Rach and Ravel
>>129180958Charming. RachAnon, give this a peep.
When I hear the valkyries, it is like the heavens have opened up and now chariots of angels descend upon this doomed earth
Wagnerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZgEqzXUxGI&list=OLAK5uy_mwWbjHpeb73z1Hq0dYiq6uZ7Y0K7w7RTQ&index=27
Who needs anything else when you have thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjw6aTXXoZA
>>129181392it's excellent but i've always felt it's undeservedly overshadowed his other solo piano musichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lep0rN5kgxc
>>129182002Huh, I was pretty sure it's his most popular solo piano piece. Did you mean 'overshadows'?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGmISHll84
>>129182002>>129182016nvm I misread that, yes it overshadowed other pieced, but "excellent" is a hell of an understatement my man. I couldn't name you better piece at a gunpoint.
>>129182035https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYWmu8m7WAg
>>129182097Based.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZtpJHhhAqE
>>129181392>30 minute fantasieSlop. >>129180880Correct.
>>129182149thanks for your input musically illiterate sister
>>129182157>musically illiterate sisterYou're the guy listening to 30 minutes of improvisational sludge. Fantasies are suppose to be short fun pieces, having a large scale 30+minute fantasie is utterly stupid.
>>129182177>30 minutes of improvisational sludge.Case in point. thanks musically illiterate sister.
>>129182193>Case in point.Do you even know what a fantasie is? Do you know what forms are?
>>129182208It's very apparent that it's you who doesn't know shit. thank you musically illiterate sister.
For today's opera performance, we listen to Verdi's Don Carlos conducted by Anthony Pappano.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2RAgvuya90&list=OLAK5uy_kwPIdWWgCXM6AoYNK2GDxdlwFmVIqauOg&index=25>Don Carlos exists in several versions, in French or Italian (Don Carlo, in five acts or four. This recording (five acts in French) uses the original version composed by Verdi for a premiere at the Paris Opera in 1867. It is longer than the 1883 revision (four acts in Italian), but longer means better when we talk about Verdi's music, and the French prologue gives a more concrete understanding of why Don Carlos loves his stepmother, Queen Elisabetta, with a more than filial affection. There are show-stopping arias and duets galore, a striking scene in which the Inquisition burns a group of Protestants, echoes of revolt in the Spanish Empire, and poignant reflections on lost love. It is an opera whose true greatness is not yet fully appreciated by many Verdi fans, but this eloquent recording should help remedy that. --Joe McLellan
>>129182208>Do you know what forms are?oh god the irony.
>>129182222>>129182245Not an argument. Feel free to explain what a fantasie is. Let me guess, another copy paste reply?
>>129182177>Fantasies are suppose to be short fun pieces, having a large scale 30+minute fantasie is utterly stupid.arguably it's part of its genius!and speaking of long Fantasieshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZVqT8R8G0g
>>129182278excellent question metalslopper.
>>129182278fantasy is a genre. it can have any form. do your own research.
Okay, so Wagner and Mozart's operas are finally starting to click for me, however whenever I try Italian opera there's a pervasive camp and bard-esque form to them I don't care for at all. So I guess what I'm getting at is, is it normal to only enjoy German opera? Or should I keep trying to get into the Italian stuff?
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JuvObZcy_U&list=OLAK5uy_kOl17LnzZxxCKZNAVfGsmJrkpUFEeq9gg&index=29
>>129182337Incorrect. Fantasie is a form that is formless. Thats why you have fantasie and fugue, a formless form to contrast the strict form.>>129182309>arguably it's part of its genius!Maybe if you think bitter tasting candy is genius as well.
>>129182398It's like you looked at the time and thought, "oh shit haven't had any arguments today, gotta remedy that" and had to make some bullshit up to get your fix
>>129182398>Fantasie is a form that is formless.If it doesn't have a form, then how can it be too long? checkmate, you can pay me my winnings next time, wasn't anything personnel, kid
Smetanahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zehg8vA3vCc&list=OLAK5uy_k9rpWqmK3YwSXoeQ0KDWfSS_YhYvaGmmg&index=2
>>129182398thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129182428Because you need something with proper form to create cohesiveness in long compositions. Otherwise you are just listening to stream-of-conscious sludge with no meaning. Without structure there is no purpose in writing anything beyond a few minutes. Fantasie exists as a fun whimsical carefree short form, either alone, or to contrast with other more strict and dry forms. 30 minute fantasies are just romanticlowns taking forms and creating over-indulgent sludge like they usually tend to do. >>129182411And now I can relax for the rest of the day upon winning that argument, hell yeah.
>>129182482kek, that seriously did not deserve any other response.
>>129182499thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper>>129182501At this point I'd rather have sistershitter do the job.
>>129182506>>129182501>>129182482Not an argument norseposter, but thanks for the spam. >mfw the lowfi tremolo picking is HORIZONTAL and the autistic screeching is in bel canto
>>129182513thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129182513As far as I'm aware, you're the one spamming /classical/ with torist tier garbage
>>129182463Smetana's vocal music is so criminally overlooked. People only know him for his Ma Vlast and string quartets, which are certainly great, but his pivot to vocal music in the later part of his career contains just as much greatness
>>129182518So true metalsister, what form are dark funeral songs in again?>>129182524>no u are da spammerThank you sycophantic sister.
>>129182538thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
Composing a 90 minute fantasie with a quadruple fugue rn (right now).
>>129182840For me its the two hour long prelude with nothing afterwards.
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hjxyF18x0M&list=OLAK5uy_kqIL4tknyUd9qh4rVtrNb793CuVSGR-yc&index=13Ciccolini is such an overlooked pianist.
>>129182891The greatest crime of Chopin was creating the stand alone Prelude despite fantasie already existing. What a fucking retard.
>>129182350I'd say it's fairly normal overall since Italian opera can be its own little world and tradition. But if you like Mozart's operas you'll probably find something to like in Rossini or other bel canto era composers. Maybe leave Verdi aside for now.
>>129179374Beethoven's prime was his 20s and maybe early 30s. You can't deny that while still great his later symphonies were the products of a aging mind and failing hearing.
covered my bow with marijuana resin, im gunna write tha 420 Sonata
>>129183313Based Gould.
>>129183377I know he said it about Mozart which is true, did he also say it about Beethoven?
>>129183394>G.G.: To tell you the truth, you've chosen a work (Violin Concerto) that absolutely drives me up the wall. But then, that whole middle-period explosion of ego in Beethoven—the "Appassionata" [Sonata], the Violin Concerto, the Fifth Symphony, and so on—all those self-satisfied, repetitive, I-dare-you-to-make-me-move-on-to-the-next-progression pieces bore me to tears. It strikes me as one of life’s minor miracles that those pieces have such an astonishing appeal.Although I think he liked stuff such as the Grosse Fuge. I also quite like the Appassionata myself, but we appreciate Gould's opinons here regardless of if we agree with them all.
Listening to Beethovens 3rd, it just sounds like noodling. It has no memorable melodies. His 9th symphony is probably the only symphony in all of classical aside from Rites of Spring that I can listen to in its entirety without getting bored
the 9th is his worst symphony
This is supposed to be Beethoven's most innovative composition. You may be listening to it right now. Does any of it actually grab you? I'm a jazz, metal, third-stream and classical composer of 27 years, and all I'm hearing is 'diddly diddly diddly RAAAA, tiddly tiddly pom, plonky-plonky-PLONK, plonky-plonky PLONK, diddly diddly diddly pom POM pom POM pom POMMMMM..' - does this stuff really relate to your deepest self?
>>129182177Zoomer attention span detected
>>129183762Try these.
>>1291837623rd literally has the best melodies except the 6th and 8th. What the fuck are you talking about.
>>129183990Maybe I got to listen to it again to get it. I did like the 3rd movement
>>129183999And not the funeral march, or the ferocious 1st movement? The climax of the 1st mov is one of the greatest orchestral masterpieces ever conceived
>>129184027I kind of zoned out. Ill give it another shot someday
>>129183882>zoomerName a 30 minute fantasie from the Classical or Baroque era.
>>129184159like they do every day Idk they didnt make recording back then
>>129184167Thank you retard.
This is how a classicalchad last.fm needs to look like.https://www.last.fm/user/Only_Perception
>>129184159Fantasie is not a form you insufferable imbecile. It's basically a sonata.
Shat myself blasting Wagner again. Big one this time.
>>129184372>metalslopper>extremely, overly dumb cretinLike pottery
>>129184372>Jute GyteETERNAL HEILS TO HIS 12 TONE GLORIES
>>12918441412 TONE GLORY HOLES MORE LIKE
>>129184432>look up adam>see a guitar>close tab
Holy shit
>>129184100Just give it a shot todayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pWFsEhQQK0&list=OLAK5uy_nrDP03wSgYJlqy7ZpVb1RZU8C-r_RO1q0&index=9
>>129184388>It's a sonata.It is not. Nor would anyone ever write a sonata and call it a fantasie. Maybe a retarded romaniticlown would because they were also retarded enough to write preludes that prelude nothing.
>>129184453>"Democritus Laughing" opens with a four-measure riff that accelerates by gaining an extra note each measure in a horizontal 4:5:6:7 ratio, for a total of 22 notes. The 22 pitches played by the opening guitar were generated aleatorically by rolling a 24-sided die; the three other guitars play serial transformations of that pitch material. When the drums enter, the tempo ratio becomes vertical and the four guitars trade tempos in that 4:5:6:7 ratio every time the opening theme recurs.
>>129184482ok fine but I started listening to 9 again so ill put it on after
>>129184500Wow math rock
>>129184572>serial transformations, aleatoric phrases, and archform >math rockIncorrect.
>>129184588Yeah buddy the drum kit sells you out sorry
>>129184506The 9th is romanticism slop, one of his worst
>>129184493>>129184588>>129184753thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
If it is true that Wagner's music is worthless, as I believe to be the case, then the question is what I think he ought to have done with his talent. For quite obviously it took a set of very rare talents to produce this bad music.
Jute Gould
>>129184753Correct.
>I understand how newer stuff I’ve done sounds ugly to people, but it doesn’t sound ugly to me. Or, it doesn’t sound exclusively ugly. I hear ugly parts, or pretty parts, or lush parts. I still use a lot of those lush chords. It’s just a different kind of language. If you’re looking at it from outside, if you haven’t internalised that language, then you’re going to hear a lot of things that sound like ‘wrong’ notes, notes that are right next door to the ‘correct’ notes but not quite there. And that’ll be discordant. But that’s subjective. And by the time these albums are released, I’ve heard that stuff so many times that it just sounds totally normal to me. I hear little musical jokes, I hear happy parts and sad parts, and I hear a lot of parts that don’t seem to have any emotive content at all. It’s not just uniformly ugly, just as Schoenberg’s work is not intended to be uniformly ugly.>His work does have that expressionist vibe, especially before he adopted the twelve-tone method. And the expressionistic stuff in my work, I think, was during that Romantic period. I was listening to a lot of late-Romantic stuff like Sibelius, Mahler, Brahms – who I just revere – and I think they’re probably more of a reference point for what I was writing there than Hate Forest or anything.>I went through my undergraduate career loving baroque music and earlier music, and the 20th-century vanguard, and basically being disgusted with everything in between – the classical and Romantic eras. But maybe a year after I graduated, I ran across this box set of Sibelius’ symphonies in some thrift store somewhere, so I just bought it. And I was just awed. I’d heard Sibelius before, but I hadn’t really heard it. I wasn’t receptive to it then. So that stuff, which is very expressive, if not expressionistic, was a big influence.
>>129184904Hes part of the western canon now, zased.
>>129184604Never disrespect Mahler like that again, plebeian.
>>129184904No no the notes are right if you think about it in this context
>>129184904Further proof Sibelius is shit
>>129185134>>129184904Same with Mahler.
Ravelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RBunnN3QKw&list=OLAK5uy_kidojW3TBAVOT7BOzrO6C_ysJwn1GfQVw&index=3
>>129185283>Ravel>Artistically worthful artListening!
>>129185134Personally I am partial to his violin concerto.
>>129185002>>129185146I just got Mahler mixed up with Wagner He would seethe at me so much
Bach and Before, Ives and AfterA little bit of Grieg, Russian 5, and Chabrier, with a dash of Franck and Late LisztAnd you get a patrician concoction of platonically moral music that soothes the soul and puts the passions at rest and the spirit in balance
Listening to Tchaikovsky. Feeling homosexual.
Where to start with Mozart's Quintets, Serenades and divertimenti? What recordings?
I like Renaissance, Classical, Romantic, Serial/Atonal, Expressionist, and Opera-exclusive composersI also have sex with women regularly in a healthy fashion
>>129186970lots of great Mozart recordings for all his pieces but this is a good place to start for the quintets
>>129186970Divertimenti K. 136, 137 and 138: Mozart Quartett SalzburgPiano Quintet K. 452: Stephen Hough with the Berlin Philarmonic Wind QuintetClarinet Quintet K. 582: Jane Booth with the Eybler Quartetcan't help you with the serenades before No. 5 because I rarely listen to them, but No. 5 and 7 in particular are some of my favorite Mozart pieces and I'm fond of the other later ones as well:Serenade No. 5 (and the March in D Major K. 215 which some believe was written to be played just before this serenade): Sandor Vegh with the Camerata SalzburgSerenade No. 6: Ton Koopman with the Amsterdam Baroque OrchestraMarch in D major K. 249 (which some believe was written to be played just after serenade no. 6): Hans Graf with the Mozarteum Orchestra SalzburgSerenade No. 7: Mackerras with the Prage Chamber OrchestraSerenade No. 8: Sandor Vegh with the Camerata Salzburg againSerenade No. 9: Abbado with the Berlin PhilarmonicSerenade No. 10: Mackerras with the Orchestra of St. Luke'sSerenade No. 11: Santiago Mantas with the European Union Chamber OrchestraSerenade No. 12: Amphion Wind OctetSerenade No. 13: good old Hagen Quartet
>>129187123based
>>129187123actually change serenade No. 10: go with either de Waart or Mehta
>>129179255The coat pocket was the gentlemanly recourse for resting one's hand in the victorian age. The masons didn't have exclusive rights to it.
The problem with choral music is you get the side-eye from people not into it when they hear you listen to it>isn't that like... church music? you a hardcore christian?
damn, Suzuki's St Matthew Passion is fantastic
>>129186374>Feeling homosexual.Can we french kiss anon?
Schuberthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X9UEYDeTE0
>>129187683Dunno, maybe
If Vibrato is natural than why do singers recorded in the first decade of the 20th century not use it?
>>129189016because it sounds like dog shit.
>>129188967Karajan makes even romantic slop sound good
heard the postman whistling Messiaen this morning
For today's opera performance, we listen to Puccini's La Boheme conducted by Herbert von Karajan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNLcq2cYkQ&list=OLAK5uy_kEnpGJUzcPwBmjXd_nwaRp5FHJGs9tTnE&index=1
>C.J. Cregg: You're taking her to the opera?>President Bartlet: Verdi's Otello. Romantic, huh?>C.J. Cregg: Isn't that one where the guy kills his wife?>President Bartlet: It's in Italian. I'm hoping she won't notice.*laughtrack*
>>129189016What are you talking about? They do. The modern singers are just inexpressive and untalented, so they don't know when to use it and how much
>>129186323>Late LisztHow did this end up being acceptable to your meme?
>“Yes, I know, of course, that I have no individuality” [“Ja, ich weiss ja, dass ich keine Individualität habe.”]-Brahms
now playingstart of Schumann: Piano Quintet in E-flat, Op. 44https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxErp4oXyd8&list=OLAK5uy_lbOD7VHBLVrKHbWOtXVLj1uTyejt9Zubg&index=2start of Dvorak: Piano Quintet No. 2 in A, Op. 81https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-DQtqcydes&list=OLAK5uy_lbOD7VHBLVrKHbWOtXVLj1uTyejt9Zubg&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lbOD7VHBLVrKHbWOtXVLj1uTyejt9ZubgImpossible to not enjoy these masterpieces.
>>129190065me on the right carrying Cloud's sword from FFVII
>>129185717Both are hated here.
I'll bake the next bread.
are the Mozart Piano Concertos before, say, the 17th worth listening to?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSx3td1uwck
>>129190082no they aren't
>>129190113Some say from 11th, some say from 15th, I say from 19th, but to each his own. I might change my mind later and start listening to earlier ones, but from what I've heard, I'm not motivated to listen. I do love some bits, like this section of the 17th, listen:https://youtu.be/qWQ7kAvW5O8?si=N76xC4d7JUVgrtJB&t=242
>>129183297Alright, I will. So Bellini, Rossini, and Puccini -- who else? and I might start trying more Russian operas too.
>>129190053
>>129190176nta, but Bellini, Rossini and Donizetti are the "big 3 of bel canto".
now playingstart of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 8 in C Major, K. 246 "Lützow"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKAnrWgpmdo&list=OLAK5uy_kG_HKu6jOYUGElQ1yHdQmG4aXrqpdRL_0&index=2start of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 12 in A Major, K. 414https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnA_x1otXws&list=OLAK5uy_kG_HKu6jOYUGElQ1yHdQmG4aXrqpdRL_0&index=5start of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 16 in D Major, K. 451https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ30Vnbq4Vg&list=OLAK5uy_kG_HKu6jOYUGElQ1yHdQmG4aXrqpdRL_0&index=7https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kG_HKu6jOYUGElQ1yHdQmG4aXrqpdRL_0One can never have too many recordings of Mozart's Piano Concertos, nor of Mozart in general really. And of course you cannot deny Serkin+Abbado.
>>129190168They are, including Bruckner. Romantislop is not an era, it is a disease.
>>129190282i dont care what your taste is like, most of the general has no problem with those composers
>>129190200Thanks, I'll try out some Donizetti.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQiMe8P7RQs&list=OLAK5uy_lIeAmBzLDDU1Ut3zcCMdWTuAxbZCKT7ZM&index=7inb4 someone tells me I'm crazy for not going with the Karajan/Callas recording instead>>129190321They're just baiting, don't mind them.>>129190282Without the Romantic era, we wouldn't have anything to listen to here at all!
Dohnanyi!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh4BJjLPyp4&list=OLAK5uy_nSXq5ue1jxrFq2GX9uS_wm_FNtN8U0yQE&index=1
>>129190344>Without the Romantic era, we wouldn't have anything to listen to here at all!Without the Romantic era, perhaps we would still a contemporary classical scene worth listening to.>>129190321All of us on the official /classical/ council have already decided that the B.M.W. trio represents the pinnacle of romantislop disease. I'm sorry you aren't on the council, but you have to love classical music and form to be a part of it.
>>129190473embarrassing post all-around, anon. please cease and desist, thank you
>>129190473this general is for actual conversation not for trying to be funny
>>129190483>>129190507The romantisloppers cry out as the obvious truth on their destruction of classical form and structure is laid bare before them. In their hearts, they truly think they are not responsible for the death of music.
>>129190549>>129190507
>>129190571Nothing funny about 30 minute long fantasies, preludes that prelude nothing, programmatic slop, and fire truck sirens - true.
Late Haydn, Gould edish. Shame he didn't perform Hob.20, but of course that wouldn't be his style of composition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4EPzYbwhH4&list=OLAK5uy_kMelmbJHnaDsXGAf5MMtqCVqi8QYnKvpk&index=5
>>129187123had a brain fart: the march in D, K. 249 supposedly was written as a prelude to Serenade N. 7, not as a closure to Serenade no. 6. I wrote all of that while drunk so do forgive me.
>>129190581whatever, man. listen to what you like and shut up. discussion of romantic music is obviously a permanent part of this general so saying it's all bad without any further substance just makes you a little kid
now playingstart of Brahms: Violin Concerto in D Major, Op. 77https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omIaQyPZ-n8&list=OLAK5uy_kU-rYbVg-4cjVQXMufdrsfZlvlm3NttLw&index=2start of Brahms: String Sextet No. 2 in G Major, Op. 36https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nNWshx9n8s&list=OLAK5uy_kU-rYbVg-4cjVQXMufdrsfZlvlm3NttLw&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kU-rYbVg-4cjVQXMufdrsfZlvlm3NttLw>Ever since it's release in 2011, this album has been one of the jewels of Isabelle Faust's discography, with Daniel Harding and the Mahler Chamber Orchestra providing tremendous accompaniment in the concerto. The coupling is a poignant reading of the delicate and highly personal Sextet no.2. "Her performance is wonderfully proportioned... never grandiose nor unnecessarily rhetorical, with the Mahler Chamber Orchestra supplying perfectly scaled support..."(The Guardian).Nice pairing of works.
>>129189862>he doesn't know how groundbreaking and emotionally restrained late Liszt isKill yourself
>>129190802Stop wasting your time replying to bait, anon.
>>129190802>discussion of romantic musicDiscussion is open to both negative and positive remarks, might I suggest a different forum or site if opposite opinions of your own are too frightening to engage with or even view? For all the praising of Nietzsche the romantisloppers were up to, their fans are certainly no upholders of his values or sensibilities. Not much of a stomach among them.
Who has better violin+piano duo works, Schubert or Mozart?Schuberthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmDfXpcFJZEMozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRfLP2zQBCU
>tfw no rachmaninoff violin concerto or violin sonatasad
Apparently calling composers "romantisloppers" over and over counts as "discussion" in some people's heads.
Just discovered a new composer, Gian Francesco Malipiero (1882 - 1973, Italian).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8blKvSClF9Q&list=OLAK5uy_nnl6k_P1kBE1BE0UO7aqsGWxJr_OkDXFw&index=1>The eight string quartets that Malipiero wrote between 1920 and 1964 constitute a major body of Italian chamber music and reflect his successive musical affiliations. The first two form a linked unit and espouse his radical anti-Romanticism in the early 1920s. Nos. 3 and 4 share structural similarities and act as a kind of laboratory for his symphonies of the time. Quartet No. 5 was inspired by Malipiero's theatrical work, whilst No. 6 explores a new-found narrative dimension. With the two late quartets Malipiero moves into a world of chromaticism, where tone-color freedom reaches the apex of imagination and achievement.It appears he has some symphonies, piano concerto, orchestral works, some solo piano pieces, and of course these 8 string quartets.one community reviewer writes,>It's now all the rage for writers to rave about Malipiero's masterful quartets and rate them up there with those of Bartok.>That's a pretty fair argument except to point out that Malipiero has more range and was in many ways more original than Bartok. Twenty years ago you couldn't get the same writers to even acknowledge Malipiero as one of the greatest composers of the 20th Century, which he most surely was.:OOlofty praiseanyway, give him a try!
>These days if you can find a specialist classical music shop and ask for these wonderful string quartets no one even bats an eyelid, but I remember quite vividly going into a record shop in Liverpool in the early 1980’s, an establishment known for its selling of musical instruments and the building of organs (it’s no longer there) and asking about the Bartók String Quartets, only to be met with the response of “Oh, you don’t want that rubbish!”hehe
>>129190987Thank you for the fallacy-fallacy.
>>129190830>he doesn't know how groundbreaking and emotionally restrained late Liszt isThen why isn't other equally garbage nonsense such as late Debussy on your list?
>>129184904>>129185002>>129185307>>129190082>>129190282thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129190473>>129190549>>129190581>>129190859>>129191043thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
Celibidache!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7PquSOaZr8&list=OLAK5uy_lXLX2n6u-LWxhPg4L8DCHJ8MPZGiwbh1Y&index=1>Sergiu Celibidache was without question one of the most important and original conductors in recent memory. He was a perfectionist who disliked what he perceived to be the synthetic sounds created in the modern recording studio, preferring the immediacy of the concert platform and the interaction with a live audience. This Bruckner recording celebrates the extraordinary legacy of his collaboration with the Münchner Philharmoniker, from which he was Musical Director between 1979 and his death in 1996. "One of the greatest Bruckner performances I have ever heard - a truly towering act of the re-creative imagination (...). [This performance] is centred in string playing of astonishing depth, eloquence and homogeneity. As with Giulini, it is the viola and cello sections which seem to harbour the very soul of the music. The viola cantilenas in the slow movement (...) are things of rare beauty." Gramophone
>>129191011This would probably be very good for anyone into Hindemith + modernism in general
>>129191091>>129191087Thank you for the spam norseposter metalsister.>mfw the lowfi tremolo picking is HORIZONTAL and the autistic screeching is in bel canto
>>129191212That was crazy to me how he was explaining his piece and how it was horizontal in a 45 6 7 ration or whatever but he designed it vertically so its just vertical music he calls horizontal
Iveshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td_aGvcU5lM
>>129191212thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
I am fond of them, of the inferior beings of the abyss, of those who are full of longing.
>>129190859god you are such an obvious teenager
>>129191335unfortunately our resident charlatan newsister is an adult, he is just that asinine.
*concludes classical*
>>129191630Oops, wrong pic!
>>129191335>god you are such an obvious teenagerIsn't that more of a romantislopper quality?
>>129191654Concludes the metalsister's listening experience, based.
>>129191666>>129191678thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129191882Whoops meant to reply to myself >>129191654
The whole "thank you [x]" posting had a lot more umph to it when it wasn't being spammed by a metalfag who also spams /nbbmn/ and /metal/.
>>129192017it never had any "umph" to it nor was it ever funny. this general's forced memes are never funny and only serve to bore or mildly annoy people
>>129192050Correct.
Authentic Beethovenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9hC-_YIALA
>>129192574>4 generations removed from Beethoven>Liszt of all people is the model>authentic
>>129192601excellent sloppost illiterate sister.
>>129192681Beethoven literally never heard a single note Liszt played.
>>129180716I listened to it and I thoroughly recommend it. Excellent recording with very natural sound, and hammer blows that don't disappoint.
>>129192753thanks charlatan.>``I was about eleven years old when my respected teacher Czerny took me to see Beethoven. He had told Beethoven about me a long time earlier and asked him to give me a hearing some day. However, Beethoven had such an aversion to infant prodigies that he persistently refused to see me. At last Czerny, indefatigable, persuaded him, so that, impatiently, he said ``Well, bring the rascal to me, in God's name''. It was about ten o'clock in the morning when we entered the two small rooms in the Schwarzspanierhaus where Beethoven was living at the time, myself very shy, Czerny kind and encouraging. Beethoven was sitting at a long, narrow table near the window, working. For a while he scrutinised us grimly, exchanged a few hurried words with Czerny and remained silent when my good teacher called me to the piano. The first thing I played was a short piece by Ries. When I had finished, Beethoven asked me if I could play a fugue by Bach. I chose the Fugue in C minor from the Well-tempered Clavichord. ``Could you transpose this fugue at once into another key?'' Beethoven asked me. Fortunately, I could. After the final chord, I looked up. The Master's darkly glowing gaze was fixed upon me penetratingly. Yet suddenly a benevolent smile broke up his gloomy features, Beethoven became quite close, bent over me, laid his hand on my head and repeatedly stroked my hair. ``Devil of a fellow'' he whispered, ``such a young rascal!'' I suddenly plucked up courage ``May I play something of yours now?'' I asked cheekily. Beethoven nodded with a smile. I played the first movement of the C major Concerto. When I had ended, Beethoven seized both my hands, kissed me on the forehead and said gently ``Off with you! You are a happy fellow, for you will give happiness and joy to many other people. There is nothing better or greater than that''Liszt studied with Czerny, closest friend and a pupil of Beethoven. His pupils are closest to what Beethoven himself intended.
>>129192838>eleven years old>saw him literally once when he was deaf as a doorknob>hated child prodigies but forced into pretending he could hear some random child by his student CzernyLike I said, Beethoven never heard a single note Liszt played.
>>129192864thanks for the copium charlatan
>>129192878You're welcome metalfag. Do try to grow up and realize many people fake and pretend when people we know force us to interact with things we dislike, and the general self-consciousness that comes with losing a faculty like hearing or sight. Ask an old dying person what they think of a gorgeous mountain in the distance and they'll very often tell you how much they love the colors and shape, and you'll be there nodding, knowing that there isn't even a mountain at all.
>>129192913thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129192838>Liszt studied with Czerny, closest friend and a pupil of BeethovenYeah, and there also numerous historical documents from Viennese critics and musicians of the time too, Liszt was obviously the most Beethovenian performer except maybe Czerny>>129192913holy cope
>>129192930thank you brother.
Arrauhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1rdyPqnjqA
>>129192930>Czerny, closest friend and a pupil of BeethovenAka the only reason Beethoven actually put up with seeing child prodigy #98213, the guy was so fucking deaf he was using metal rods for added vibration and yet you'll actually believe he even heard Liszt play at all. He gave his student's student some lip service like you would for any friend.>Liszt was obviously the most Beethovenian performerI don't think Beethoven was known for being viruososlop doing salon tricks for popularity.
>>129192979>I don't think Beethoven was known for being viruososlop doing salon tricks for popularity.I don't think you have slightest idea of what you're talking about.
>>129193002There is a reason etudes, miniatures, songs, and transcriptions are Liszt's main compositional form. The only time credit is given to his compositions is after he went mad in old age and forgot how harmony was supposed to function.
Even Liszt's only real accomplishment, the B Minor sonata, is just his poor attempt to copy Alkan's Grande Sonata 7 years after the fact.
Preferred Schubert symphony recordings/cycles?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKcrjW2nEvs&list=OLAK5uy_k5wyGThTq-8t0pjI0x4pbABP7LvkqslpM&index=1
>>129190887As much as I love Schubert's, Mozart simply has shitton of them (even if most of them are totally forgettable). And K.304 is magicalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmJN5bTHvJk
>>129178856I'm peeping that real hard
>>129191052>"Ives and After"Retard alert, starting reading and stop dilating to Schumanns Trantasie Op 17
Walter's Schumann 4. Actually preferable to the famous Sawallisch's. More expressive.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=188SVn3HD0c&list=OLAK5uy_niKe3HsRQRLnOTQ4P2OQFZ7oG3pJ3IzTo&index=1
>>129190830>emotionally restrainedIn other words, awful
>>129192784>Artistic Quality: 6>Sound Quality: 8I'll pass. When Dave speaks, I listen.
Nikisch, Walter, Furtwangler, Casals, Mengelberg, Fried
>>129193768Dave is out of his mind.
Walter's Mahler 4 with Vienna.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSNkpGuoeGA
Amazing how so many modern conductors totally butcher Mahler (or anything for that matter), when they have Walter in front of them.
>>129180274They discussed more music than most of the thread though >>129179817
>>129178852What makes Cherubini's better than Fux's? There really isn't that much to say or ways to explain these concepts. And exercises in Fux are decent. I guess the translation is awful, and some basic concepts are not explained and the student has to do their own research. But besides that, I'm curious.
>>129193999I made it sound too bad, when it actually isn't. Translation is okay.
>>129193417BlomstedtThen specifically for the 8/9, Bernstein, Karajan, Bohm, perhaps Wand if you're into that
Fux's species method was criticized by CPE Bach I think. Would it be ideal to approach counterpoint with thorough bass instead? Are there any books for it?
>>129194021Into what?
What is Mahoposter's favorite Mozart violin sonatas
Y'know, I'm ready to say it, Fazil Say is one of the great pianists of our time. Plus he has a wonderful discography: complete Beethoven and Mozart sonatas, Bach Goldberg Variations, Chopin Nocturnes, and then a bunch of miscellaneous from Satie, Debussy, Scarlatti, Stravinsky, Bach, Prokofiev, Mussorgsky, Haydn, Chopin. If you care about piano music at all, you would do well to acquaint yourself with his recordings.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t79b8pdUWbs&list=OLAK5uy_l0grdhGXO5OV-kvpWZW36zyEvlQjhKqaM&index=3bonus Satiehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD6pOlTBsRY&list=OLAK5uy_kYK50tYNh08W32wJ0YxPtCmQr11NjlcC4&index=17
>>129194061>StravinskyHe likely sucks then.
Debussy.
>>129194078>>129194078>>129194078Novy
>>129194026There is nothing wrong with the species approach. Also,>booksGet with the times, old man.www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPHC9Zf9s04&list=PLSntcNF64SVW2hG6S7j78_cXg_13ZWN0q
>>129194069It's a piano arrangement of The Rite of Spring
>>129194088I trust CPE more than 4chan anon.And I don't need ADHD visual helper when book is sufficient, but thanks.
>>129194099>CPE Bach maybe critized the species method in some way, probably. I'm not sure in what way or if he really even did.Yeah, putting some real confidence in Bach Jr.
>>129194108It was criticized by the Bachs. And yes it was CPE. It's not how they taught counterpoint in the baroque period.
>>129194124Source: trust me bro.
>>129194139Source: letter to Forkel, in CPE's own words his "father opposed "species" method".
>>129194088>polyphony cant exist without harmonyImma stop you right there possessed satanic demon who gets it backwardsIts harmony that cant exist at all lol All because he learned harmony first like everyone else its cooked bro
>>129194202You have the right idea but you're wrong there. Harmony is not just "functional harmony", it's also the relation between different pitches (intervals).
>>129194226Nah thats not what this guy is referring to when he says harmony lol
>ad 9um: Da er selbst die lehrreichsten Claviersachen gemacht hat, so führte er seine Schüler dazu an. In der Composition gieng er gleich an das Nützliche mit seinen Scholaren, mit Hinweglaßung aller der trockenen Arten von Contrapuncten, wie sie in Fuxen u. anderen stehen. Den Anfang musten seine Schüler mit der Erlernung des reinen 4stimmigen Generalbaßes machen. Hernach gieng er mit ihnen an die Choräle; setzte erstlich selbst den Baß dazu, u. den Alt u. den Tenor musten sie selbst erfinden. Alsdenn lehrte er sie selbst Bäße machen. Besonders drang er sehr starck auf das Aussetzen der Stimmen im General-Baße. Bey der Lehrart in Fugen fieng er mit ihnen die zweystimmigen an, u. s. w. Das Aussetzen des Generalbaßes u. die Anführung zu den Chorälen ist ohne Streit die beste Methode zur Erlernung der Composition, qvoad Harmoniam. Was die Erfindung der Gedancken betrifft, so forderte er gleich anfangs die Fähigkeit darzu, u. wer sie nicht hatte, dem riethe er, gar von der Composition wegzubleiben. Mit seinen Kindern u. auch anderen Schülern fieng er das Compositionsstudium nicht eher an, als bis er vorher Arbeiten von ihnen gesehen hatte, woraus er ein Genie entdeckte.According to CPE you should not buy a book on counterpoint, but a book on voice leading from which to learn how to write chorales. Once you know how to do that, you should study Bach's and then create your own two part inventions, then three part inventions, then four part fugues.
Species method is for 15 yo 4channers and graduate student redditors
>>129193999many things but I will keep it short. Cherubini provides better explanations concerning tonal melodies, tonal harmony, and the treatment of tritones. His book is also more organized than Fux's and he wasn't an insecure peasant who larped as Plato by writing it in the form of a dialogue. >>129194272no. it's just taught by people who don't really understand how it works. species counterpoint should be taught after melody and melodic elaborations (suspensions, appoggiaturas, harmonic divisions, etc.) >>129194226there are really four types of harmony and they overlap each other to an extent: root progressions, part writing, set theory, and strict counterpoint.
>>129195166Species shouldn't be taught It exists as the sole curriculum, but in effect its just a hypothesis for curious youth, and busywork for reddit graduate students who encounter it for the first time in their lives at least 7 years later after the youth have moved on from it to greener pastures
>>1291942564-part voice leading is commendable but the principles of counterpoint start to creep in when you deal with anything more complex than natural triads in the diatonic scale.
