>>129256194
Because videogames are for children. Case in point – OP.

cause it's not as good as anime music
now goddammit op, tell us something we don't know

>>129256194
I love big titty brown women so much it's unreal. It's the reason I can't be racist.

>>129256194
Videogames are unironically childish as fuck. Not mechanically speaking -- that part is often fine -- but aesthetically and mentally. I genuinely can't think of anything less appealing about a person than hearing they're a "gamer". It immediately suggests arrested development, and it's embarrassing that this is now something people announce proudly and build an identity around.

The original music written for videogames is, with rare exceptions, fittingly mediocre. Even the better examples feel "off", because they're intrinsically bound to the game itself. They barely function as autonomous music at all; they exist as functional background sound, not as works that can stand on their own.

People will say it's about a "total experience", but that comparison collapses immediately. Wagner's music dramas are a total artwork because every component operates at an extremely high level. In videogames, the opposite is true: weak individual elements are propped up by context. The whole compensates for the parts rather than elevating them.

This obvious distinction enrages terminally obsessed gamers, because admitting it would mean questioning the thousands of hours they've sunk into these things. They could simply say they're having fun, without trying to elevate the activity into something serious. But instead, everything has to be declared "art" and "heckin' valid".

There's very little to take seriously here. But don't worry, OP -- in time, every major and minor concert hall will be forced to program shitty videogame music alongside actual art just to survive. As IQs, music education and attention spans continue to plummet, the market will demand ever more watered-down repertoire. That's simply reality.

>>129256194
Cause it's usually crap and/or boring
Same reason nobody takes film scores seriously
Only VGM I like is Silent Hill music

>>129256336
As a former "gamer", I'm frustrated by how undeveloped it is as an art form versus as a form of entertainment. It's probably the medium with the highest artistic potential right now, but nobody cares. All people want and all people get is shooting zombies and bing bing wahoo bullshit. Best you'll get is some cinematic playstation game that has maybe just a little more substance than a Marvel movie and that's if you're really, really lucky. There's exceptions like Kojima/Sam Lake who at least try, or Disco Elysium, those really make me wonder what videogames could be if there was more of a serious artistic movement behind them.

>>129256400
Kill yourself mate.

>>129256400
Yes they do, sorry brah, but John Williams is canon, and will be played centuries from now alongside the likes of Beethoven and Wagner

>>129256419
Video games will never evolve as an artform until you can make a taboo game without the world REEing about it
There are films and albums about rape
Try making a game without rape in it in any capacity and it won't go over well
It's stifled as an artform cause people are retarded
>>129256423
You know I'm right.
>>129256427
>one composer
Name who did the film score for the 2024 best picture winner Oppenheimer without looking it up

>>129256400
System Shock, Streets of Rage and nuDoom have pretty good music that is interesting to listen to outside of the context of the game. Quake soundtrack is a pretty great Nine Inch Nails ambient album.

And there's that fucking shitty Robocop game for the gameboy and Commodore 64 that randomly has this insanely good main menu music.

>>129256427
Not even John Williams would agree with you

>>129256419
>>129256437
I don't agree with the premise that videogames are stifled or immature art form that just hasn't "found itself" yet. I don't think they'll ever be art in the first place, they're entertainment by nature.
The problem is structural, as games are goal-oriented systems built around mechanics, rewards and optimization. That logic is fundamentally hostile to autonomous aesthetic form.
Whenever a game tries to be "serious", the interesting/developed parts are almost always narrative, visual or atmospheric, i.e. literature or visual art bolted onto a thin layer of gameplay. Strip the mechanics away and the work usually improves. Keep them, and meaning is subordinated to doing tasks.

>>129256437
To be fair Max Payne shows you a dead baby in the first five minutes. But then that's a Sam Lake game, who's one of the handful of guys trying to tap into the artistic potential as games.

>>129256336
i don't have an opinion myself because i don't play much but I do have a friend who is an accomplished musician and he's remarked several times in the last couple of years that the most interesting media adjacent compositions are almost all coming from games, and not movies and tv, as used to be the case.

>>129256475
>as games are goal-oriented systems built around mechanics, rewards and optimization
Maybe it's just because that's all devs know to do with the medium.

>>129256487
Hans Zimmer kind of raped film/TV music, it's all very minimalistic "dun dun dun dun dun" music now. It's very boring and samey

>>129256475
Why can't a game mechanic be considered an artform?
What makes me strumming some chords and wailing about some girl who won't fuck me more artistic than beating in a virtual zombie's head with a 2x4?

>>129256475
You are an ignorant person.

>>129256487
I'm not convinced this says anything good about games or media. It mostly says something bad about contemporary art. Most contemporary art is garbage, not because people are inherently stupid or untalented, but because everything is market-facing, hype-driven and optimized for circulation. There are no real standards, no continuity and no shared aesthetic horizon.
When art is cut off from tradition, craft and any sense of form, it doesn't disappear, but it does get absorbed into media, content and entertainment, where it becomes purely functional. At that point you don't really have art anymore; you have "media", and every kind of creation or expression is automatically treated as art. Everything just gets flattened.

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This thread is completely full of narcissistic morons who think they can determine what is and isn’t art.

Video games are art, have always been art, will always be art, have always had merit and will continue to expand into new territories just like every other art form.

Shame on all of you.

>>129256492
I'm not sure it's that. I think it's the nature of the medium. Remove goals, rules and optimization and you don't really get deeper games, you get something that isn't a game anymore.
>>129256520
Cool. So what do you think is wrong in my post? Calling someone "ignorant" because you're offended isn't an argument.

>>129256336
"gamer" != someone who plays video games

>>129256554
>Remove goals, rules and optimization and you don't really get deeper games, you get something that isn't a game anymore.
I bet people said the same about some of history's most experimental, innovative music that was instrumental in shaping the way the medium is now

>>129256551
You're not responding to anything I wrote. I gave concrete, coherent reasons for why games are structurally entertainment rather than art. Simply declaring "video games are art" isn't an argument.
We should start distinguishing between the basic act of pumping out entertainment for consumption and the creation of something meant to express what can't be reduced to market logic. Not everything humans vomit out counts as art or culture in the stronger sense of the word.
Saying everything is art doesn't magically make everything equally meaningful; it just makes judgment unfashionable. Form, proportion, coherence, autonomy and internal necessity still exist as criteria, whether or not people want to apply them.

>>129256573
This comparison makes no sense. There has never been music with goals, optimization or win conditions. Experimental music stretched harmony, form and sound, but it never removed the basic fact that music is something you listen to, not something you complete.

>>129256594
Jazz completely changed the rules of how music was supposed to work

>>129256554
For starters just because a particular game can be goal oriented doesn’t mean that you cannot engage with it in whichever way you see fit, video games like all art forms can be interpreted in different ways, engaged with in different ways. Yuji Naka the creator of Sonic The Hedgehog was partially inspired to create said game because he found getting through 1-1 in Super Mario Bros. Tedious so he’d see how fast he could beat the level and he’d keep at it. This is arguably not the intended way of going about playing the level.

Then there are games which let you do basically whatever you please, Minecraft, LittleBigPlanet, Scribblenauts are all examples of games that allow unprecedented freedom, most of all LittleBigPlanet, truly a gaming experience like no other, you were only inhibited by your imagination. That was a game that would let you compose music, direct films, character customization like you can’t imagine, just complete and total creative freedom.

I’m not sure what else to add rn, feel free to retort.

>>129256607
This is too vague to mean anything. Which rules, specifically?
Music never had a single rulebook to "break". Western music already contained modal harmony, chromaticism, syncopation, complex rhythms, improvisation, etc. Jazz didn't remove any of music's defining properties, it still unfolds in time, is apprehended by listening and operates through form, rhythm and harmony.
Historically it's also continuous: it develops from blues and Black American vernacular music while absorbing Western harmony and form and many early jazz musicians were classically trained. Late 19th century classical music already anticipates a lot of what later gets labeled "jazzy".
None of this is comparable to games.

>>129256627
I mean like the improv in Jazz and shit but maybe I should have kept my mouth shut because wtf do I know about Jazz.

The point I am trying to make is that the boundaries of the medium you described are self imposed. You can make a game without a reward system, win conditions and goals and shit like that. Those things have already been done too to some extend

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>>129256581
I agree with you on some level, but extending this line of thinking to something as diverse and vast as video games is outdated and incorrect. It just isn’t correct, film, literature, music, the visual arts can all be perverted can all be molested and co-opted by advertising, can be packaged and sold as entertainment with no care or love or intention other than greed. Video games like all other art forms can be made with artistic intention, with something to say, unconcerned with the corporate machine and the “demonic” system we find ourselves in.

>>129256618
I fear we might be talking past each other a bit. I'm not denying that players can engage with games creatively or in unintended ways. That's about player behavior, not medium structure.
The point is that games are still defined by mechanics, systems and instrumental action, even sandbox games. You're always doing something to produce an effect within a bounded system. Ignoring objectives or playing creatively doesn't remove that structure. There's also a difference in function and mode of production: videogames are inherently market-facing, massively collaborative products, designed, tested and optimized for consumption and engagement. That doesn't make them worthless, but it does shape what they can be.
Music having "rules" isn't comparable, for example, because music doesn't have goals, success conditions or optimization. It doesn't ask you to achieve anything, just to listen or perform.
Despite my originally provocative post, I'm not saying market = bad or art = pure, and I don't have anything against entertainment as such. I'm saying that different media have different origins, functions and limits. When we flatten everything and call it all "art" by default, the term stops doing any useful work.
Treating videogames as interchangeable with serious art doesn't elevate games either, it just lowers the standards we use to talk about art in the first place.
I do still think it's incredibly lame to base your entire identity around gaming, like many people do. You need a healthy dose of engaging with serious art and entertainment, and being too far into one direction is bad for you.

>>129256655
Yeah, I mentioned improvisation and it's absolutely nothing new at that point because it existed long before jazz. It also doesn't remove anything essential from music. Games are different -- goals, mechanics and state change aren't conventions, they're constitutive.

>>129256706
The market surrounding and producing videogames is not actually a function of the medium itself. It is a self imposed limit instead of a fundamental limit if the art form

>>129256665
Right, but you're talking about co-option and commercialization after the fact. I'm talking about the nature of the medium and its mode of production. Literature, music, even film can be repackaged and sold as entertainment, yes, but they're not constituted by that logic. A lot of it is created as art first and only later absorbed by markets.
Videogames seem different because they originate as market-facing, massively collaborative products, designed around mechanics, engagement and iteration. You can have artistic intentions within that, but intention doesn't override structure.
An example from literature: the fact that Les Misérables can be turned into a Broadway musical tells us nothing about Hugo's novel or literature as an art form. He didn't write that as "content" or "entertainment", and the form is the proof, as you can see he used fiction as a vehicle for history, social theory and moral philosophy. The novel's excesses (random digressions, essays and detours) are anti-market in spirit and its later musicalization and branding are derivative, not constitutive.

>>129256719
Maybe >>129256739 already answers your point.
Anyway, I gotta go now.

>>129256739
I don't know why you keep going on about structure when games theoretically have the most undefined and free structure of any artistic medium out there. Conventions and the market around videogames are limits imposed on the medium by its developers and consumers, they are not inherent to the medium itself.

>>129256551
Only the likes of GTA and Bioshock are art.
The vast majority of games are just interactive movies

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>>129256194
GTA has real music in it

OSTs are generally designed not to be actively listened to so much as to enhance a scene that is playing out. it's meant to be ignored. video games are generally meant to be more fun and less thought provoking than other media, like film or albums, so the music accompanying it is going to (a) not take itself seriously by definition, and (b) be designed from the ground up to discourage active listening.

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>>129256194
They do

>>129256336
You've internalized and rationalized what you think women want to hear. You're an intellectual simp.

>>129256843
GTA is fucking retarded immature power fantasy bullshit that has nothing going on behind the surface aside from basic South Park style cynicism towards everything and a lot of shit ripped off 1:1 from movies and TV.
Bioshock has a great artstyle and worldbuilding and all that but actually playing it is fairly uninteresting. It's just a System Shock game with most of what made those games good stripped and streamlined out.

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They dont have autism, unlike (you)

everything in life is as serious as you want to approach it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRkQyuzPv4
this track evokes intrigue, a heightened sense of awareness, a sense of uncertainty about one's environment, and culminates in a crescendo that is reminiscent of a hunter chasing its prey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcoLNTG1tTo
this song is effectively a plot synopsis, and speaks about the plight of he who is arisen, which is to say he who is bound by fate to the dragon's dogma, an endless cycle of reincarnation that lasts until one can break the curse. such a concept is reminiscent of eastern religions like buddhism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA614N3IHD4
and this is an aggressive and rhythmic orchestral expression of the struggle of survival that he who is being preyed upon might experience.

this shit is conceptually and artistically more sound than anything taylor swift has produced and you can't tell me otherwise. there are countless more examples of good music. go listen to the deus ex soundtrack, go listen to the cyberpunk 2077 soundtrack, witcher 3 soundtrack, fucking sonic the hedgehog has some of the best music in the business.

if you don't take video game music seriously, then I just don't take you seriously.

>>129258004
>more sound than anything taylor swift has produced
big bar, aye?

>>129258054
well she is only one of the biggest contemporary female artists, and thus is a reflection of the consumption habits of a great deal of the population, so of course she's going to draw comparisons, and this is saying nothing of the fact that this board apparently has some affinity for pop music, which doesn't imply a varied and unorthodox taste that some up-his-own-ass music snob might embody. find me any "serious" artist more evocative than what can be found in video game music, why don't you. often times there is some overlap between the music made for anime and actual music produced for general consumption, at least in japan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXo3DrXHY8w
a track like this is more than just background decoration, it's building the atmosphere and draws from the artist's interpretation of whatever cultural and intellectual schema and strata they've previously consumed to hone their craft. it's not divorced from a greater cultural context just because hurr durr bideo gaem.

>>129256194
Sauce
NOW!!

>>129258087
personally I cannot take as seriously music that is intended to be immanent to a specific function in a goal oriented medium, compared to a fully fleshed out vision of an artist. Most of videogame music is simply limited by too many factors: it can't be experimental because it's meant for a commercial product, it has to be easy listening because you're gonna listen to it over and over again, it's often modular and needs to adapt to the players actions, etc. Basically, videogame music is ingrained on the idea that it has to "work" for something rather to live on its own. Of course, sound is sound and there are few exceptions, but if you published them as a standalone album you could hardly call them "videogame music".

https://youtu.be/p-0RZeIfT4Y?si=8V4UryPtS30KjBPx
https://youtu.be/XWVij6r4QBw?si=D1LEsAQziMnMumnl

>>129258262
while what you say is true, I can't help but feel like it describes the vast majority of music. name any genre, and you'll find within it music that is produced as a commercial product, that is supposed to be easy to listen to so as to be repeatedly consumed, and adaptable based on the proclivities of either the consumer or some stringent set of guidelines (i.e. heavy censorship for the sake of radio play, contractual obligations, etc). none of these things apply when the artist is given free reign over the product in question, and since video game music is more often than not atmospheric rather than conveyed through some stylistic delivery, showmanship and lyricism, it can generally get away with more than a particular artist who is constrained by the need to maintain their image for example, or some other set of considerations, even when restricted by a set of similar guidelines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr9rMO7GKj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFQwn6M1RMc
here are two examples, these tracks could easily have been produced for a movie ost, they're fine for what they are but go on /v/ and ask them to name their favorite tracks. I doubt tracks like these will comprise the majority of what people choose to post.

i hada gf that looked like this
i met her in a drug halfway house we were both in
would sneak out to fuck in parks around san francisco
she was obsessed me face fucking her
i still get painful boners thinking about it

>>129258212
tiktok

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Why yes, I do listen to Persona OSTs despite never playing them. How could you tell? Color Your Night, Pursuing My True Self, Whims of Fate... the list goes on really.

>>129256194
so who's the girl?

>>129256194
Burn every single e-thot at the stake

>>129256200
fpbp /thread

>>129256336
Good post and thoughts, mirrors a lot of my own, thanks anon
>>129257715
fat, stinky virgin

>>129256427
go back to letterboxed, neckie

>>129260511
we know zoomer, and it's P5 as well

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>>129256437
>It's stifled as an artform cause people are retarded
Well yeah, as said above, most gamers are emotionally stunded neckbeards and are the reasons games are held back as a so-called artform. They keep buying remakes, remasters, uninspired formulaic trash and gatcha shit, but still have the balls to insist their overpriced action figures and slot machine aesthetics are worthy works of art. Game dev companies have more in common with toy companies than art collectives, not to mention the billion dollar industry attracts shareholders who care about keeping you complacent and addicted, not enlightened or edified.

>>129256487
he sounds like a normie retard with shit taste.

>>129256502
Agreed. It's probably not his fault though, just an industry of producers and execs who demand a certain formula from their composers because that kind of complacency isn't risky and leads to money.

>>129256519
Stumming chords is a creative expression. Playing with digital toys and dolls is less like that and more like playing poker or choosing what to wear for the party. You can have fun doing any of these things. So what? Why is that art?

>>129256520
>ad hom
mad and coping kek

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>>129256551
>morons determining what's art or not
>btw vidya is art you guys

>>129256607
No, wrong, it didn't. It created it's own so-called language (a family series-set of rhythms, tonalities, harmonies, etc.) that distinguished it from other forms, even if some overlap (mainly blues and classical) was still there. This is as arbitrary and meaningless as saying a language developed in the 1300s "completely changed the rules" of how writing and talking are "supposed to work". Many jazz musicians don't even buy into the idea that there are "rules" to follow, but instead that jazz practice and theory is made up of TOOLS instead of rules. See the famous Debussy quote for an easy example of this.
t. massive jazzfag for like 25 years, even used to play

>>129256194
These threads are sad. People are so pathologically obsessed with being negatively perceived they will sacrifice things that bring them joy.

>>129258004
>whoah le deep

>>129256336
good post
>>129257715
>t. hates women so convinces self they can't be right about his hobbies being stupid

When I play games I usually switch the audio input to my stereo and just listen to that instead.

>>129256336
Based.

>>129256774
That's just not true. Games don't have "undefined" structure; they're one of the most structurally constrained media there is. They're rule-based systems with mechanics, bounded spaces, permitted actions and enforced state changes. You can only go where the game allows and do what the system recognizes.
That isn't imposed by the market or by convention; it's what makes something a game in the first place. Remove that structure and you don't get a freer game, you get something that isn't a game anymore.
And this isn't specific to videogames. Just look at other games. Chess isn't structurally free. Football isn't. Card games aren't. Remove the rules, permitted actions or win conditions and you stop playing the game. What's the difference? Videogames are just the same logic as other games, implemented digitally, with audiovisual layers added on top.
Variety of content isn't the same thing as freedom of form. Compared to literature, music or visual art, games are far more tightly regulated at the structural level.

Streets Of Rage 2 is the best video game soundtrack, and that one wouldn't really appeal to people who weren't familiar with the game
it's a genre for people to listen to by themselves because they know the game
don't ever listen to it around normal people
nobody's stopping you, but they don't care about the game you like, and they will judge you for putting it on, and they'll be right even though they like shit music
have some dignity

Its meant to loop after a minute which really limits what they can do with it, its good as ambient music for that reason though

>>129261891
i don't think that anon at all understands what you mean when you say "structure". i kinda get it though, and youre right

>>129256194

I got head in my car while Crush 51 was playing. Fuck you, thot.

>>129256226
Is it still racist to want to keep them for yourself, as a white man? Not in a slavery sense, but just… this is mine and I don’t want to share?

>>129256194
First we need to know what this 1lbs make-up face thinks is real music

>>129261891
>Remove the rules, permitted actions or win conditions and you stop playing the game.
Maybe you got a point that it would stop being a "game" at a certain point. So lets just call it like interactive software art or something, which is still something that does not really exist as a mainstream art form but definitely could.

Also I would like to adress your earlier point about gameplay and game mechanics being purely entertainment, you can definitely get ideas and experiences and feelings across through gameplay, other than just "fun". Hideo Kojima is a great example of this, his games often blend the narrative with the gameplay in ways where you get experiences that you could not possibly transfer to another medium. Like there will be an emotional death scene where Snake has to execute another character in a cutscene and you'll have to actually press the shoot button yourself. Or he'll have a level where you fight child soldiers and they start screaming and crying if you attack them. Now it's not just the character feeling guilt, but the player too. He's even said that he deliberately made Death Stranding 2 less fun to play because it got in the way of the kind of experience he was going for.

I mean I think it would speak for itself that games have a unique artistic potential because it is the only medium where you can have your audience as a participant in the narrative.

>>129256194
I hate these larping e-thots

>>129263576
my favorite moment in MGS3 is when you fight the sorrow and if you went the whole game without killing soldiers, the difficulty of the fight changes in accordance with this action, as the sorrow uses the ghosts of dead soldiers that you killed against you. it reinforces the various anti-war themes and makes for an interesting boss encounter at the same time.

>>129263611
>old snake getting back pain if you crouch too long
>raiden's dog tags showing your username before he rips them off and walks away
>venom snake is actually your custom character
>psych meter goes down if snake gets his feelings hurt in a cutscene

>>129256200
fpbp

>>129261165
>>129261432
I've touched a nerve. And I didn't even imply that women think this as a rule, I implied that you think they do. It IS your motive.

People in vgm threads on /v/ talk about the generic slop music from their favorite game like high art. The amount of snobbery is amazing. It's the tone that people used to use here discussing Trout Mask or something. They truly believe they are enlightened beings for appreciating the most boring unimaginable shit ever.

>>129264955
fat and smelly

>>129265014
There is a video on YouTube where musicians have to guess whether a melody came from Mozart or pokemon and they could not reliably tell them apart

You sound like those artists who claim that art made by humans is better than ai because it's has "soul" or something

What you call "high art" isn't anything special. Whatever criterion you use to define it is probably some vague nonsense, that is more of an expression of your own contrarianism rather than a measurable property of the actual music.

Music isn't really that deep, since the space of melodies that sound good to
humans is combinatorically very small.
There isn't anything remarkable about it at all.

Its not made to stand on its own, 2/3 of it is mediocre, and its bogged down by the context of its existence. I dont care how objective you think you are but if all of Mozart's best work was permanently tied to a game like Dragon Age you would take it considerably less seriously

>>129266429
You're misunderstanding me. I have no issue with video game music. A lot of it is very good. But there is a type of person who only listens to video game music, who is totally ignorant of music outside of video game music, and thinks they are superior to others for doing so. But no, at the end of the day most of the music they jerk off about is just derivative classical, fusion and electronic. I'm not going to lay out objective terms for quality in music but there is certainly much more interesting music to listen to. Also people not being able to tell Mozart and vgm apart is probably not a great argument for you. It just means they are ignorant. Retards can't tell apart AI slop from reality but it doesn't mean there is no difference.

>>129267011
Agreed but the dnb tracks on ps1 games are better than any commercially released "real" dnb. So /v/irgins get that one

>>129266429
Imagine using music written by real composers for a video game to defend the AI that's taking their jobs away. Jesus dude. You realize Vidya music is made by real people, right?

>>129266429
>There is a video on YouTube where musicians have to guess whether a melody came from Mozart or pokemon and they could not reliably tell them apart
Nta but I honestly don't know what your post is supposed to prove. If you strip a single parameter, a fragment of melody from its harmony, form, development, texture, context, etc., then yes... you're left with "just melody" and nothing too remarkable. Taking a single line out of context and saying "undefined musicians couldn't tell Mozart from Pokémon" tells us nothing about music as an art form; only that decontextualized fragments collapse distinctions. No shit.
>Whatever criterion you use to define it is probably some vague nonsense
Not really. They're grounded in centuries of theory, analysis, aesthetics, pedagogy and historical practice. You can dismiss that as "pretentious" all you want, but that dismissal is doing all the work here: not an argument.
It's *really* easy to flatten everything into "content" or "media" and declaring it all equivalent, but it doesn't count as insight. Just an abdication of judgment. Music isn't subjective, taste is. Music is governed by intersubjective criteria (form, coherence, development, hierarchy, context), which is culturally defined, yes, but not arbitrary and not purely biological either. This is precisely why some music endures and others don't.
>the space of melodies that sound good to humans is combinatorically very small
This is, ironically, the vaguest claim in this thread. Music isn't shallow, you're just reducing it until it becomes shallow enough to dismiss.
There isn't anything remarkable about your post at all.

>>129267216
It's a /v/ tourist who's too autistic to actually enjoy or understand music. They basically said they don't even like Vidya music. They're just here to argue. Let's stop responding to this thread and go listen to some ps1 dnb playlists on YouTube.

>>129261201
Music criticism is just as bad as game criticism though. Music reviewers have always been boring, trend chasing creeps trying to appeal to teenage tastes and aggressively shilling for the big industry players. It's been really bad since the rise of poptimism in the 2010s but you can look at older reviews too and it was always shit. Movie criticism is the only criticism with the veneer of respectability.

Because you are in your 30s

>>129267260
You're right.

>>129256336
It's a new medium and is still being held back by the same thing film was in its infancy: trying to emulate what came before rather than being its own thing.

R4 mogs 99% of music

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>>129267293
nta but I'm thinking more about the general taste and ability to descern quality of the general public.
If you'd ask a normie about their taste in music, they would often probably concede that they listen to what sounds good to them and that they aren't really aware of what brings artistical value to a record. They’re not pretending to have some refined framework for “artistic value,” and they don’t feel threatened by the idea that their taste might be shallow or situational.

When it comes to "gamers", it's like they NEED their hobby to be legitimized with some kind of artistic value rethoric. And while you could probably well argue that some games truly carry some artistical value, their desperate need for validation poisons any kind of introspection and insight they might have . Therefore everything they play has to be a masterpiece, every single moment an emotional climax.

>>129256200
/thread
fpbp

>>129268295
>>129267260
For me, it's
https://youtu.be/h3_s3Lqvdcs?si=oNUJWnPtPB5kCRKl

>>129270338
>Therefore everything they play has to be a masterpiece, every single moment an emotional climax.
This is a good point and it's why I don't buy into >>129267293 because game reviewers are so easy to impress. Games with a 70 on metacritic are considered average if not skippable, meanwhile music/movies with a 70 are considered pretty good, probably worth watching. The expectation for games that gamers/game reviewers place is so completely absurd and disproportionate.

>>129271403
In other words, the reason why there are so many more games with scores of 90+, compared to music/movies, isn't because games are inherently better, it's because the bar for a game getting that score is CONSIDERABLY LOWER than the bar would be for other mediums. A film or novel has to do so fucking much in order to be considered pretty good, far much more than what a game needs to do in order to be considered a masterpiece or GOTY. A complete oversaturation that's fueled by a market that needs to keep on pushing out high-score titles so that people will keep on buying them.

>>129256194
what's her nasty slutty snatch page?

>>129256194
>hates anime and videogame music
>listens to PHONK, MACHINGUNKELLY or anything else is viral on tiktok nowadays instead

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>>129256194
https://youtu.be/-M2EYvqeTdI?si=9SVQw0vELUAx51CF ...Dawn Winery Theme

>>129256336
>>129256200
They don't care about the music, they jist care about whatever boogyeman they create on their mind.Just look at these posts going about muh childish

>>129256194
performative otaku

>>129256336
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Isz6lbYwL2Q&pp=ygUTc2hhdHRlciBoYW5kIGFyZWEgZA%3D%3D

Fucking retarded take since 1991

>>129256200
well I guess that's just your opinion

>>129256200
>>129261116
>>129263804
>>129270584
samefag

>>129257715
I've come to the conclusion that if a woman likes something, 9/10 its usually garbage. women are nice to cum inside of but useless for discussing anything intellectual or interesting. women are things.

>>129256194
I like vidya game music as much as stuff like dark ambient, folk, jazz/funk, electronica, alt/indie rock, prog, classic, metal, punk, industrial. music's music, man.

>>129268253
>>129273805
>>129274235
Not a single point addressed, not a single counterargument found. I accept your concession. Now go back to playing your silly little games.

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is there anything unique about modern video game music?
In the past, there were sounds like 8-bit music that only video games used
nowadays, it's just other genres they use to appropriate for their games

>>129276450
It can be dynamic, changing depending on what's happening on the screen, it's not an easy to task to seamlessly fade between tracks like that. Video game soundtracks are often solo projects so you can find all sorts of niche stuff.

>>129256336
So your argument is that film scores aren't real music, and apparently neither is theater.

Fucking retard.

>>129256336
Vidya is actually the ultimate art experience. You're a pleb.

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>>129256419
>those really make me wonder what videogames could be if there was more of a serious artistic movement behind them.
I generally separate the medium into 'toys' and 'experiences' like I would with movies, books, and music. We can point to some garbage film like Paul Blart and understand that technically it isn't a poorly made movie, but it's utter garbage -- the same can apply to looking at FIFA versus a Sam Lake title. I don't like writing off mediums entirely because that's retarded shit but video games are the one medium where a majority of it is still in the 'toys' category for me.

>>129276964
>So your argument is that film scores aren't real music
Not exactly what I said and you're just collapsing distinctions. "Not autonomous" doesn't mean "not music"... it means functionally subordinate. Film scores and incidental music are music, but they're less autonomous by design. They exist to support something else and are evaluated primarily in that context.
This isn't even remotely controversial. It's also why, when people talk about a classical composer's greatest work, they literally never mean a 5-10 minute cue (incidental music, overture) written to set a scene or get the audience to sit down. There's a hierarchy of seriousness and ambition, whether you like it or not.
>apparently neither is theater
Saying "theater" is vague. If you mean ballet or opera (where music is structurally central, not incidental with an occasional song), those are different cases. Especially opera, which was conceived as a total artwork from the start. Even there, the music is complex and developed enough to stand on its own in a way most background or functional music simply isn't.
So yes: music written to be background, atmosphere or support will almost always be less musically serious than music written to exist autonomously. You fucking illiterate.

>>129277200
I hope this is ironic and not genuinely your opinion because that'd be fucking embarrassing. Anyway, see >>129276381

>>129277859
>You get music, choreography, photography, directing, art style, and immersive storytelling all wrapped into one medium
>Not art

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>>129274336

>>129274358
underaged, virginal, and mad kek

>>129276450
no.

>>129276949
improvisational musicians change based on what's happening on stage all the time

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>>129278300
>art is when you jam pack as many mediums/techniques into one candy wrapper together as you can
slot machines are art now, guys

>>129256419
>Best you'll get is some cinematic playstation game
>There's exceptions like Kojima/Sam Lake who at least try, or Disco Elysium
You dont like videogames.

>>129278598
nor should he, they fucking suck now

>>129277674
agreed, well put. with music i definitely consider the vast majority of it to be fleeting junk food, but the 5% of it that speaks to me is too powerful to dismiss

>>129278655
Thats because devs try to make the 'le profound cinematic experience' this guy loves so much. Let me correct myself, he never liked videogames in the first place.

>>129278598
what games you like?

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>>129278850
The games I played recently and liked are Blasphemous, MGR Revengeance, Resident Evil 3 OG and Cuphead. I gave Death Stranding a second chance a month ago and Kojima's failed frustrations of being a film director are encouraged when he makes third person shooter, stealth kinos and not delivery simulators with horrible pacing at the beginning. Remedy's best game was released 25 years ago and Alan Wake has the most repetitive gameplay of all the games I played, so yeah I think he is shit.

>>129263294
bro just discovered monogamy

>>129278690
everything is a hollow formulaic husk of ran-through ideas, AAA cinematic or indie slop

>>129264955
that's nonsensical. you could just as easily have assumir his motive as anything at all.

What makes gamers truly retarded is that they think art is just about having an emotional response to something. Which is the laziest, most myopic mindset ever because then anything from state-mandated propaganda to toy commercials or even family footage of some crying baby can be seen as "art". It's a complete degradation of creative standards all in the name of elevating dogshit to the same level as temples, symbolist literature, modernist sculptures, etc, all things that come from a long lineage of specific aesthetic ideals and whatnot. Any retarded entertainment normie slop can be good at producing an emotional response - just look at Disney flicks and their well-known narrative formulas predicated on basic emotional manipulation techniques.

>>129279201
>Blasphemous, MGR Revengeance, Resident Evil 3 OG and Cuphead
Are they art?

>>129263294
it's racist and sexist

>>129256419
>it's probably the medium with the highest artistic potential right now
no it isn't. video games are basically just porn but for the natural drive to complete tasks, "work" etc., the only reason video games resemble art is because real (albeit extremely shitty 99.9% of the time) art is pasted on top of them

>>129279433
Yes

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>>129279433
god no lmao

>>129279425
Your first mistake is thinking that art is reserved to only the ideas that high institutions have placed and set to their elitist standards. No better than the corporate shart you hate so much.

>>129279921
So every band from the last 50 years that has had merch made for it isn't art, got it.

>>129280278
this but unironically

>>129279921
also let's be honest, in 40 years time no one in going to remember about cuphead

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>>129256419
>There's exceptions like Kojima/Sam Lake who at least try, or Disco Elysium
You're like one of those retards who hates heavy metal, and then reveal when you used to listen to metal, it was some objectively dogshit subgenre like nu-metal or -core slop when you were 14 and blame the entire genre itself instead of branching into the stuff that was decent.

They are videogames not videomusic

>thread is about video game music
>it's just retards rambling about video games themselves
>including retards who don't even play games
Anyway, post vidya music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P48nEUVm4k

>>129280302
>>129278850

>>129256194
please give fucking sauce

>>129258262
>personally I cannot take as seriously
You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
>Most of videogame music is simply limited by too many factors: it can't be experimental because it's meant for a commercial product
Yeah, because it's not like there hasn't ever been music written and recorded with the sole purpose of commercialism, no sir. Not once has artist deliberately built a song around a hook they could net them radio play, not once has an artist had to rewrite lyrics or censor them for mass consumption.
>it has to be easy listening because you're gonna listen to it over and over again
Oh my science, you mean I have to write something with melody and rhythm in it? I can't just turn in some atonal slop and have people tell me I'm le genuis because I farted out a bunch of samples with no rhyme or reason? The cheap sounding drill slop from dead Chicongo nogs has more artistic merit than something by Koshiro?
Also, you don't play games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgJbPYDVgwM

An infamous example of deliberately uneasy listening vidya music.
>it's often modular and needs to adapt to the players actions, etc.
Nigger what? Even now not every game uses dynamic music. Most of the time it's one song set for one environment or level.

>>129256194
black women are only cute when they wear a weave to make themselves look more white or put in hours straightening their pube hair everyday

its sad but if at least 20% of them were as hot as this bitch I would not be racist, in reality though she is an absolute unicorn. damn I love qt blacks who do their best to look and sound white.

>>129280443
you sound butthurt, maybe if you calm down I will actually bother reading whatever you're saying

>>129280512
lol nice cope.

>>129280563
>NIGGER SHIT FAGGOT RETARDED COPE
>reduces everything to strawmans
sorry, your astute analysis is beyond my league

>>129280635
>NIGGER SHIT FAGGOT RETARDED COPE
>sorry, your astute analysis is beyond my league
I accept your concession.

>>129280647
you won just like in your videogames!

>>129280662
lol seething

TLOU2 is Kurosawa in video game formate.

>>129280669
yes seething you're aren't able to frame a discussion without only using buzzwords and fake equivalences

>ah, because it's not like there hasn't ever been music written and recorded with the sole purpose of commercialism, no sir.
yes, this usually taints the artistic value of the record. Producing something according to what you think your potential audience likes diminishes the artistic expression, usually
you sound like a redditor btw

>Oh my science, you mean I have to write something with melody and rhythm in it? I can't just turn in some atonal slop and have people tell me I'm le genuis because I farted out a bunch of samples with no rhyme or reason?
false dicotomy, you can make interesting sounding music without larping as Glenn Branca; that usually doesn't happen in videogame music

>An infamous example of deliberately uneasy listening vidya music.
infamous is the right word, right. I posted drakengard btw

>Nigger what? Even now not every game uses dynamic music. Most of the time it's one song set for one environment or level.
I don't see how this contraddicts what I'm saying. It's a limit that is sometimes present, that is all

Lasly, it's not like I'm saying anything controversial. Videogame music is
ancillar to a function, and that function is most of the times simple entertainment. You can deem it irrelevant, I simply do not.

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>>129256194
Because it's incidental music; alienated from its media it's generally worse than whatever it takes inspiration from. I love Bloodborne's soundtrack (which itself is much better than most vidya music) but on its own the artistic merit pales in the face of classical music. If you listen to vidya game or anime (or movie) music instead of real music it shows a lack of intellectual and aesthetic curiosity.

>>129256427
You're retarded. Williams just rips off composers from 50-100 years before his time and his music is all incidental (and pedestrian interpreted outside that context). Beethoven and Wagner changed the landscape of music entirely.

>>129280783
Learn how to format your posts, and learn how to speak English.
>yes, this usually taints the artistic value of the record. Producing something according to what you think your potential audience likes diminishes the artistic expression, usually
Didn't refute what I said
>you sound like a redditor btw
Speaking of buzzwords.
>false dicotomy, you can make interesting sounding music without larping as Glenn Branca; that usually doesn't happen in videogame music
Because any tryhard "challenging" music actually sucks.
>infamous is the right word, right. I posted drakengard btw
So you agree that not all game music is intended to sound "nice"?
>I don't see how this contraddicts what I'm saying. It's a limit that is sometimes present
>sometimes
Funny, you said "often" earlier, now it's "sometimes". Almost like it's not a hard rule game music follows. In turn, you've negated your own criticism.
>Videogame music is ancillar to a function
Sar, the word is "ancillary", ancillar is not a word. Secondly, if it being "ancillary" strips game music of having any artistic value, then that must apply to any film or television score, because that stuff does the same thing, play second fiddle to a scene unfolding and only being used enhance or manipulate the mood of what's happening on screen.

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>>129281203
>then that must apply to any film or television score

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>>129278690
Fuck you I never said that's the kind of shit I wanted, it's just the only way these motherfuckers can think of to put any kind of substance in their game even though it kind of misses the point of the medium.
>>129278598
I like(d) videogames a lot but I played too many of them to the point that the vast majority of them are just "been there done that" or just a worse version of something else I played. And since so little games offer any kind of artistic substance I can't often bring nyself to finish something anymore because what's the point? Is finishing this gonna add anything to my life? Will this make me reassess my views or feel something very strongly? Will I get anything out of this other than dull amusement? At least with a dumb action movie it's two hours max and you're out but games take up too much of my time, after a while I "get it".

Really I have a list of games that I am very fond of and that I feel are genuine works of art, or at the very least extremely interestingly or well designed games, but I find the medium extremely disappointing as a grown adult.

I fucking wish I spent my teenage years learning to play guitar instead of wasting my time getting good at completely useless shit.

Sorry for ranting I'm really fucking mad for reasons unrelated to this thread

>>129280278
Yes. Any other questions?

>>129280080
universities are teaching video game art classes now retard, reread the post.
>>129280302
this lol

>>129280355
>shitty elevator music transitions into cheesy cliche 80s pop rock guitar solos
not art
>>129280469
>dear diary

Blessing this thread with Nobuo, peace be with you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4XbtqZK7KA&list=RDY4XbtqZK7KA&start_radio=1

>>129281644
all the amazing tracks to choose from and you pick this slop from IX after he peaked already.

Because most normalfags don't consider vidya to be that worthy of a medium, boomers don't think it evolved passed Pacman or Super Mario, a couple younger gens who never really got into it don't think they're anything more than mobile shit you see ads for. Execs and academies don't have time to bother with games.

>>129281408
>I like(d) videogames a lot but I played too many of them to the point that the vast majority of them are just "been there done that" or just a worse version of something else I played.
Your problem for overindulging and not taking a break. Burnout is a you problem, not the medium's fault.
>And since so little games offer any kind of artistic substance I can't often bring nyself to finish something anymore because what's the point? Is finishing this gonna add anything to my life? Will this make me reassess my views or feel something very strongly? Will I get anything out of this other than dull amusement?
Can literally be said about any other medium. Again, you overindulged and think it's a fault of the medium. You can get the same burnout from watching too many movies, or hell too much music.
>At least with a dumb action movie it's two hours max and you're out but games take up too much of my time, after a while I "get it".
And what has the dumb action movie added to your life beside wasting your time? Also you know there are things like arcade games meant for short bursts of play time. You not only overindulged, you indulged in bloated AAA slop or genres that requires time investment.
>Sorry for ranting I'm really fucking mad for reasons unrelated to this thread
You should probably chill. Maybe play a game to unwind?

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https://youtube.com/watch?v=jyVrRs-PSAw&t=17m37s

I don't get OST-only types for the life of me but Toby Fox objectively has some bangers, this is just prog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62uqsJB1BVU

>>129281789
If the problem was burnout then you'd think the problem would go away after like several years of barely playing anything and going full months without videogames even, right? But I still feel the same way most of the time if I try to play a game.

>>129281964
You sound like you never really enjoyed games, or lack the intellectual curiosity to play things outside of normie shit.

>>129281603
And universities teach black gay transgender racism studies nonsense, your point is?

>>129281973
Maybe just ask me what kind of games I like, you fucking retarded fucking faggot. No need for assumptions when you can just use those scrawnly little pissfingers of yours to type a nice, reasonable inquiry

>>129282011
My point is I've been strawmanned. I listed a few major art movements and some retard changed the goalposts to academia, which nowadays champions gaming more than it does Vasily or Bely. Self-refuting nonsense from out of touch retard cro magnons.

>>129282150
uh oh melty

>>129280969
i bet you that asswipe listens to more film osts than baroque or impressionism kek

shit thread

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>>129256194
Cause most people have trash taste and only think with stereotypes without whether its true or not.

>>129256194
I honestly don't even know what the fuck videogame music is.

>>129256200
I don't play videogames but that's a retarded statement. It's like saying that cartoons are for kids when movies like Watership Down and Heavy Metal exist.

>>129256194
Who is she please?

>>129256400
>>129256437
The Marty Supreme soundtrack is really fucking good. I've never seen the movie and probably never will, but a friend of mine who's into movies said it has a good soundtrack and it really fucking does. Aside from that, the BBC's version of Utopia has an excellent soundtrack by Cristobal Tapia de Veer. There are certainly more great soundtracks out there, but I rarely watch films or television.

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>>129282196
Yeah yeah like I said I already entered this thread fuming hecause if some irl bullshit

>>129283895
duly noted retard zoomer. I’ll get right on that jewish mainstream slop OST. thanks!

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>I LOVE LE PROTOMEN!!11ONE

>>129284800
I was born in '94. You should confidence in your intuition.

129281203
>Learn how to format your posts, and learn how to speak English.
Or else? lol

>Didn't refute what I said.
On the contrary, pointing out that commercial music exists doesn’t refute what I’m saying.

>Speaking of buzzwords.
Lmao, I was parroting you.

>Because any tryhard “challenging” music actually sucks.
Lmao.

>So you agree that not all game music is intended to sound “nice”?
Are you actually incapable of not dealing in absolutes? I never said it. It is also disingenuous to bring Drakengard or Evergrace as a common example of videogame music.

>Funny, you said “often” earlier, now it’s “sometimes.” Almost like it’s not a hard rule game music follows. In turn, you’ve negated your own criticism.
Semantics. The fact that there are a few exceptions doesn’t make my statement false. Video game music is heavily limited to a function.

>Secondly, if being “ancillary” strips game music of having any artistic value, then that must apply to any film or television score, because that stuff does the same thing: plays second fiddle to a scene unfolding and is only used to enhance or manipulate the mood of what’s happening on screen.
Again, you deal in absolutes. There’s a gradient, and there’s a hierarchy. No one said video game music was stripped of all value. The more music is subordinated to an external function, the less autonomous it is, and the less I personally value it aesthetically. Videogame music is heavily constrained by function by design. Exceptions don’t negate that tendency,

>>129256194
>why don't people take videogame music seriously?
boomers or they dont take music seriously in general, although I guess it is somewhat a hold over from film scores

>>129285046
What the fuck is videogame music?

>>129285053
music that was written for a videogame

>>129256194
What is real music? If it's video game music, it can be any genre. There is no such thing as a video game music genre itself; even chiptune music was just a hardware limitation. Even anime music is even crazier because it's mostly rock music. I don't understand what makes something “video game music” or “anime music.”

>>129285081
>What is real music
music that exists for itself and itself

>>129285094
*and in itself

>>129285094
There's no such thing as “real music.” Do you mean modern singles or record-based music? It's not even that modern because it started in the late 19th century. I feel like this is a pointless discussion.

>>129285110
no, that's not what I said and I don't understand why you think I'm implying that

>>129256194
I want to fuck her

>>129285147
When people refer to “real” music, they mean record-based music or sheet-based music. Video game music is usually played within the context of the audio-visual experience of a video game. But it is no less music than “Sugar, Sugar” or the “5th Symphony.”

>>129285153
you can call it "non-autonomous" music if you'd like
Basically, it’s music that is not meant to be actively listened to

>>129285168
How is it not meant to be actively listened to? Ragtime pieces in Mario are just as much music as “proper” ragtime pieces. It's such nonsensical backwards thinking based on a prejudice against toys. Yes, video games are capitalist garbage. But that doesn't make video game music any less music than your illogical elitist mush brain thinks. If anything, the musical knowledge you need to make chiptune music makes it much more interesting than a lot of “proper” music. It's the only place that brings you down to a more scientific approach to music. Like, look at sheet music. They're pitches, but their notation is based on piano keys. Whereas the chiptune approach comes down to the actual pitch number, which is much more logical than actual sheet music. Weird out-of-place rant. But I've been thinking about it.

>>129285081
She's obviously a weeb doing a bit of trolling on fellow weebs

>>129285209
girls don't watch anime tho

>>129278300
As I thought, you didn't even bother to read my post, so let me help you out
>People will say it's about a "total experience", but that comparison collapses immediately. Wagner's music dramas are a total artwork because every component operates at an extremely high level. In videogames, the opposite is true: weak individual elements are propped up by context. The whole compensates for the parts rather than elevating them.
If you want the longer version, try to bother and read my other posts ITT.

>>129280355
>>thread is about video game music
>>it's just retards rambling about video games themselves
OP asked why videogame music isn't taken seriously. Explaining that requires talking about videogames themselves. Crazy stuff, I know.
>>including retards who don't even play games
Yeah, because not playing them means we're not personally offended when someone dares to criticize them. That's kind of the point.

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I like videogame music but the problem is you have reddit retards who "represent" it posting gay fucking shit like Nier OST saying how it's art and all this other crap when I just listen to shit like this
https://youtu.be/MXQw5Z2lZ-4?si=IPuJKMeMcEFhni5y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdXiT59cu5o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxZ28KzQWDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMCA7jwjxNc

>>129285081
>>129285110
>>129285153
>>129285191
>What is real music?
Who are you even quoting? You're inventing a position to argue against. Nobody used those words until you did.
Nobody is saying videogame music isn't music or there's a single videogame music genre. Genre is irrelevant because the issue is function and autonomy. Do you know what those words mean?
Music can be written autonomously, i.e. to be listened to for its own internal development, form and necessity. That's different from incidental or functional music which exists to SUPPORT SOMETHING ELSE. You're either genuinely retarded or dishonest not to understand this. The distinction is older than videogames or film and not even remotely controversial at all. I explained it already here >>129277842
>If anything, the musical knowledge you need to make chiptune music makes it much more interesting than a lot of “proper” music
As if you'd know ANYTHING about "making proper music". Technical constraints or how something is notated don't make something artistically deeper or more serious. How pitches are encoded or how "scientific" the workflow is (whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean) are surface level technicalities and a tiny aspect of music.

>>129287864
When I was in school some of the biggest most annoying weebs were girls that loved shota yaoi

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>>129280283
>>129281593
It's....

Over.

>>129287937
>Nier OST
it's really good though

Because for most people like your pic related.
It's only cosmetic. People don't take it seriously because most people don't.

>>129287994
Nigga, your nonsensical musician rant about autonomy is bullshit. The SMB theme is no less autonomous than whatever pop music on the radio.

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>>129256194
Silent Hill 2
Tekken
Hylics 2
Final Fantasy 13, 13-2, 13 LR
Castlevania
Persona 3, 4, 5
SMT Nocturne
Ragnarok
LaTale
Maplestory
Valkyrie Profile
Donkey Kong
Super Mario
Zelda

All those have good music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWjyLeLGhaM

>>129285094
So is Wagner not real music?

>>129256336
>highest form of art.. Bad
>faggots prancing in cosplay..GOOD

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>never refuted

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blessing this thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80XAJKqRU9k

>>129289452
>it's simply made to be good music to listen to
no, it's music made to not be listened to actively

>>129289504
being made to be good to listen to and being made to be listened to actively are not mutually exclusive things, thus vidya music can be both or just one

>>129289557
>thus vidya music can be both or just one
most of the time it's the latter

>>129289578
depends entirely on the composition
i can just as easily say that most music is trash, which it is since so much is forgotten and uncared for, that is just the nature of music

>>129261236
You're mistaking creation with engagement. How is clicking play on spotify art?

>>129289620
>i can just as easily say that most music is trash, which it is since so much is forgotten and uncared for, that is just the nature of music
yes but if you teleologically write music with the the idea in mind that it's meant to stay on the background you're most likely not gonna end up with a composition that is as insteresting as an autonomous piece of work

>>129289659
That's an entirely false assumption given there's a huge interest in vidya music nowadays. Bury the Light from DMC5 had an upload with like 100 million views before it was forced into a reupload and many games even revolve their creation process around their music, such as say, Undertale which pulls similar numbers.
Everything you say just sounds like cope my man, the only leg up you have on vidya music is that the people creating it usually don't get big bucks to advertise it and instead the game advertises it for them.

>>129289716
I don't see why you think the popularity of the medium/music refutes what I'm saying

>>129289752
There's nothing to refute. It's a blanket statement that presumes it is true by itself, when that is not really the case cause people have no problem remembering tons of "background" tracks over even just old pop songs that had their course on radio and left the public consciousness. 10 years from now, more people are going to be humming Megalovania than any Billie Eilish song.

>>129256336
>This obvious distinction enrages terminally obsessed gamers, because admitting it would mean questioning the thousands of hours they've sunk into these things. They could simply say they're having fun, without trying to elevate the activity into something serious. But instead, everything has to be declared "art" and "heckin' valid".
Rest of the post is wrong but this is unironicly true

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>>129256194
I think Uematsu is up there with the greatest composers of all time

>>129289765
>It's a blanket statement that presumes it is true by itself
which one? that videogame is teolologically written as background music or that background music is usually not as interesting as "proper" (vague term but you get it) music
>cause people have no problem remembering tons of "background" tracks over even just old pop songs that had their course on radio and left the public consciousnes
the fact they didn't listen to them actively doesn't mean that a lot of those songs weren't written with the opposite idea in mind
also where pop music places in the hierarchy of art is a whole another topic I do not wish to debate today
>10 years from now, more people are going to be humming Megalovania than any Billie Eilish song.
I don't think lots of people will remember either

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>>129289752
>songs written to be in the background of something will not be remembered because... they just won't, ok!
most music IRL is just spam playing off of a spotify list in random bars nowadays, it's basically at a lower tier than vidya music because at least vidya music is tailored to a scenario and memorable in that sense kekkaroooo

>>129289817
>most music IRL is just spam playing off of a spotify list in random bars nowadays, it's basically at a lower tier than vidya music because at least vidya music is tailored to a scenario and memorable in that sense kekkaroooo
there's no point in not comparing the best of both categories
approximately 100,000 to 120,000 new tracks are uploaded to Spotify every day

>>129289815
>that videogame is teolologically written as background music
not all is so your argument crumbles. was "proper" music never written to just be background music on the radio as well?

>>129289815
Both are essentially false statements because they are not always true.
>weren't written with the opposite idea in mind
there's no effective difference if most music is not remarkable enough to be remembered
>also where pop music places in the hierarchy of art is a whole another topic I do not wish to debate today
Too bad, if you debate "hierarchy of art" (nonsense that defeats itself btw, there is no hierarchy if anybody can define a new hierarchy at the drop of a hat) you have to debate everything in the hierarchy. You picked a fundamentally retarded thing to argue about and now you don't wanna do it.
>I don't think lots of people will remember either
Well, that's to be seen, but I'm kind of doubtful one of the most popular games ever is going to be less remembered than a generic pop artist from the late 2010s.

>>129289842
>not all is so your argument crumbles
no it doesn't
>>129289902
>there's no effective difference if most music is not remarkable enough to be remembered
artistic intent is valuable, also see >>129289841
>there is no hierarchy if anybody can define a new hierarchy at the drop of a hat)
the hierarchy is simple and objective: wether the music is autonomous and lives for itself and in itself.
you might not agree with it but it's a perfectly reasonable criterion to follow if you love music as an art
>You picked a fundamentally retarded thing to argue about and now you don't wanna do it.
no, you're strawmanning against something I'm not argueing for
>but I'm kind of doubtful one of the most popular games ever is going to be less remembered than a generic pop artist from the late 2010s.
again, not an argument against what I'm saying

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anything /mu/ listens to or recommeds is utter fucking dogshit
if /mu/ hates videogame music then it can only be great

>>129289995
I listen to VERY good music though

Finally an interesting thread on /mu/ for once.
Just gonna throw in the last videogame song I've liked on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQG3fjOO47U

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>>129290000
Digits don't lie.

>>129290001
>nierslop

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>>129289986
>wether the music is autonomous and lives for itself and in itself.
this was of course defined by yourself, I can just contest that and your hierarchy is objectively trashed
>you might not agree with it but it's a perfectly reasonable criterion to follow if you love music as an art
It's not perfectly reasonably nor is it objective.
>no, you're strawmanning against something I'm not argueing for
You're arguing about something subjective and pretending it's objective. I've ran into people doing this about art in completely different contexts before and usually it's just a question of them being insanely arrogant.
>again, not an argument against what I'm saying
Yes it is. Interest is entirely about how much actual interest something generates and also how much interest it can maintain over time. If you are going to argue that "you're most likely not gonna end up with a composition that is as interesting as an autonomous (read "real music") piece of work" then you literally have to bring science to the table and prove it. Because you cannot actually do this your argument is bad and worthless.
This is why, like the other anon said, your argument crumbles. It fundamentally assumes that you are correct from the onset when you can't actually meaningfully make people believe that. The success of an argument are based on convincing an audience and since multiple people don't agree with you I can only assume you are not successful.

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>>129289777
>Gets Mogged by Hamauzu
Nothin personnel kid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M9En5BJq_g

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>>129290145
as far as jap composers go, for me it's kobayashi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZBoiW460nU

>>129290036
>this was of course defined by yourself
I didn't come up with it
>It's not perfectly reasonably nor is it objective.
determining the intent of the composer is quite objective in this case
>interest is entirely about how much actual interest something generates
you're basically conflating popularity with artistical value
>If you are going to argue that "you're most likely not gonna end up with a composition that is as interesting as an autonomous (read "real music") piece of work" then you literally have to bring science to the table and prove it
the science is that 99.9% of the time, those pieces of music are only listened by gamers, and I don't it's because they're enlightened listeners. This is of course anedoctal, but the kind of person that tells you he's into videogame music usually doesn't have a great knowledge of other music
I also genuinely think that if you skim only the best of videogame music that are comparable to the most memorable records of "real" music you're gonna be left with only a handful of songs, most of which don't suffer from the background music constraint

>>129256200
Reminder that people who have adopted the "first post, best post" adage, are all extreme newfags. It is true for certain historic threads, but it is not like "digits confirm"

>>129290194
>I didn't come up with it
Irrelevant, it'd be just as invalid regardless.
>determining the intent of the composer is quite objective in this case
Not really, the value of art is not actually dependent on the intent of the composer. Maybe that can increase its value to certain people who view it, but then ultimately speaking, their view is just subjectively enhanced by those factors. People who say they basically presume they speak for others and I can prove you wrong by simply saying "no"
>you're basically conflating popularity with artistical value
Nah, you made a statement that those works would not be as "interesting" as real music but if "interest" is not defined as how many eyes it attracts, or at least for how long it stays in public consciousness, then what is interest? Plenty of vidya music can go into the whole dissection/analysis portion of art much deeper than many "real songs", it's not inherent to non-vidya music to be interesting nor can you easily prove that it's more likely to be interesting. It's just your mere personal view that it is.
>he science is that 99.9% of the time, those pieces of music are only listened by gamers
Shocking that people who listen to music from games probably played those games, or at least watched somebody playing them. But you should be able to give me a statistic for this so you can at least say that you are objectively correct, right? Right?
>This is of course anedoctal, but the kind of person that tells you he's into videogame music usually doesn't have a great knowledge of other music
Which is anecdotal, good that you can see to that.
>I also genuinely think that if you skim only the best of videogame music that are comparable to the most memorable records of "real" music you're gonna be left with only a handful of songs, most of which don't suffer from the background music constraint
Well, that is what you think, as you say.

>>129256336
God what an insufferable post

>>129256336
I listened to dungeon synth when I played through Goldbox games because they don't have a soundtrack. But I like that music separately too.

But it's true that the game scores are tied to the games themselves. Also true that they're not the most mature and don't carry the same cultural "cred" as some artsy fartsy avantgarde music of the yesterday.

But they're meant to be appreciated as they are, listening to this outside the game as it gave me the chills when gaming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6I37jelcMk

>>129256419
>nd bing bing wahoo bullshit. Best you'll get is some cinematic playstation game
video games SHOULD NOT BE MOVIES. bing bing wahoo bullshit is closer to the art form that games should be

>>129290337
Yes I agree see >>129281408

>>129290246
>Irrelevant, it'd be just as invalid regardless.
what would make it relevant to you?
>People who say they basically presume they speak for others and I can prove you wrong by simply saying "no"
you can hear that they're meant for background music, I mean
>you made a statement that those works would not be as "interesting" as real music but if "interest" is not defined as how many eyes it attracts, or at least for how long it stays in public consciousness, then what is interest
a complex list of subjective and objective aspects such as originality, the abiltity to subvert expectations, tension, emotion, etc etc
>Shocking that people who listen to music from games probably played those games,
given they are also very popular, one would expect them escaping the gamer bubble if they were truly so interesting
>Well, that is what you think, as you say.
you could try to prove me wrong by bringing some examples and explaining why you think they are relevant

>>129289995
Kate Bush and Steely Dan are good but besides that I haven't had any good recommendations from /mu/ that I can remember.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA21z_k4Nrg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZIzJvRAEyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwsXcA5KJc

>>129290366
>what would make it relevant to you?
If it held any sort of objective reason for me to pretend it should dictate what I think about it. If it can't, then it's a worthless spook and I'll gladly think whatever I wish.
>you can hear that they're meant for background music, I mean
This is objectively false, some vidya music is meant to be front and center. Some vidya music has the whole game constructed around presenting the music (not even just rhythm games).
>a complex list of subjective and objective aspects such as originality, the abiltity to subvert expectations, tension, emotion, etc etc
So a subjective definition of what interest is that you cannot clearly define?
>given they are also very popular, one would expect them escaping the gamer bubble if they were truly so interesting
Many have. A lot of games earn popularity off of their music. There are many games I've learnt to play only off of music and in the age of social media, I'm fairly certain something like DMC5 reached a wider audience than any of the other games pretty much off of Vergil being cool & Bury the Light being in a bunch of TikTok videos.
>you could try to prove me wrong by bringing some examples and explaining why you think they are relevant
This is not for me to prove, you entered the discussion claiming something. If you want to assert it and want me to believe it, your case has to be good, and better yet, you have to have evidence. Till then, all you can say is "I think" and anything else you say is just a cover for saying that you think (subjective) about something.

>>129282150
so what do you play? because i came to the same assumption as the other anon

>>129256336
and what faggy shit do you listen to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4qMxJJAszg
Does /mu/ like siivagunner?

The only good vidya music is from the Darius/Rayz series, Sonic CD, Battle Garegga and Rave Racer. Nothing else matters.

>>129290695
a lot of else matters. People already posted most of the great ones ITT and they are none of the ones you posted.

>>129290708
Yeah because everyone else is a faggot with shit taste. Video games only excel at fusion and 90s club music. Everything else put out is really just background noise.

>>129290731
ur retarded

/v/ found the thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VAjwo3fnGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLSlWr2nDYw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFzPW2mlg28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODy6rmrh4Og
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwmDUVxBxA0

Everything this guy makes is gold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGJbuHUbw8k

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>>129290808
>/v/ doesnt know about the band of Hamauzu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I5fqus8HMA

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>>129256194
I hope people will listen to my crack theory. Preferring vidya OSTs has implications on someone's character more than if they just liked listening music. The main factors:
- Video game music is composed with a tactile experience in mind
- In most cases, the person listening has played the corresponding game, meaning that they're reexperiencing the tactile part as they enjoy the music, subconsciously.
My postulation is that people who prefer to listen to vidya OSTs listen for that subconscious reminder, the association with sensory stimuli they are familiar with, or something that they would rather be doing, rather than appreciating music that's made for the sake of music. Additionally, I think people that criticize fans of OSTs maybe aren't able to parse this exactly, but feel the same way. It creates an innate lack of understanding between the two "tribes" because they both listen to music for very different reasons, driving the discussion and vitriol.
>t. fan of both forms of music.

>>129291053
>Video game music is composed with a tactile experience in mind
Depends by who. A lot of the best composers have had bands or did extensive music works in the past like HamaGODzu. That guy lived all his life in the music conservatorium.

>>129256739
Sure, the medium originated as that, but it doesn't mean people can't make "real" art out of it later, no?

>>129291081
Just because a composer may have made regular music in the past doesn't make it untrue. Writing music for a particular scene/level/screen is a way different discipline.

>>129256336
Most shit take I've ever seen.

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>>129256336
MKW was AOTY 2025

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3J8zk58BP4

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>>129256336
>words words words

>>129290844
ebin spazzy adhdcore for le epiks

>>129291221
dentist waiting room music

>>129256336
Look at this doood with his reddit ass opinion. Hit em with the Yoko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqDeit4elR8
BAM, Shut the fuck up.

>>129291541
this isn't very good

>>129291541
average squenix bab

>>129291568
>>129291576
Sorry to hear about your disability. Here's something more your speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXYVfk7agqU

>>129291591
you need to listen to more music if that sounds groundbreaking to you

>>129291601
Who said anything about groundbreaking, subhuman? It's just good taste.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUQuBBBzx-I

>>129291635
>It's just good taste.
nah it's boring and cliché
this one I like

>>129291651
Pretentious dweebs are boring and cliche. That's (You).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDZ3Hr3u1pc

>>129291694
I simply find this overplayed orchestral slop boring, it all sounds like dun dun dun with some added bells and whistles

>>129291728
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkVwZMjgjm8

>Composer gets the entire dev team to do the chorus of the song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P-VQ42SzOI

>>129256194
Listen, if this doesn't hit you with melancholy of summers gone I am just going to keep it moving. I got two functioning hands I am good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mKujjD7L9A

>>129256336
post a single of your creation.

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>>129256336
Beethoven and Mozart would both concede defeat to the Donkey Kong country soundtrack.

https://youtu.be/-5rAjOjTGtc?si=my76rPxafUdD3TAo

>>129256194
there is so much angry ranting and buzzwords in this thread. no points are actually being proven. everyone is retarded.

anyway, video game music is very nice and deserves better. check this one out. https://youtu.be/-J0H5ah1G7A?si=BWlCulOP9Y3D7vKv

>>129291906
>Implying the /mu/ cattle are capable of humility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FCvzsVlXpQ

>>129256437
>There are films and albums about rape
There are plenty of games (made by nips) with rape. Rance games are all about porn, both F/SN and Tsukihime have rape.
>b-but they are porn they don't count!
You are the one who is moralizing and restricting expression, and you don't even see it.

>>129256336
listen to gusty garden galaxy from super mario galaxy, come back here, and apologize.

>>129291962
BING BING WAHOO!!!

Don't ask me why I know this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=725J0Z_QBnA

>>129291962
garbage. listen to literally any Bruckner adagio and then kill yourself

>>129292059
>HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I am so fucking cultured DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j13u4YBjSAY&t=2026s
Look at all this old shit I know about LE CLASSICS you GAYmers could never.

>>129289153
He's talking about high art type of music and using video games as the target to punch down on while using chatGPT to relay his argument. Just a silly troll you can ignore.

Non of you here know what good music is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfgfFKNlRKk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQOCaGZyVCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ufS7LaYVC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgILh3rJ9dk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyy2MhKyL9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13-Mj5MZ5Ow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ztL9-Ld4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTJQiGRQS8Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jln8YzYMB9s

>>129292059
The fact that you reply with a suggestion that’s so thematically incongruent proves you’re a dilettante.

>>129256336
cool story bro

>>129256336
so based that it warranted a /v/ thread

>>129256336
>--
Thank you chatGPT. Very cool.

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>>129291962

Infinite Azure is a beautiful song

>>129256336
Please explain in detail how this isn't good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cclxu9T0tcQ
>inb4 le gacha is le bad
If you resort to this, I will consider you to have conceded the argument

>>129256336
/v/ermin childrens BTFO

>>129256336
These are the people who write reviews on rym, folks!
These are the people who listen to theneedledrop.

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I like vydia music that is stacked the fuck out with bars in Synthesia bc this is teh best way to practice

>>129256194
Because Normies cant play instruments

Normies hate instrumental music even though it is objectively the purest form of music with its mood and feel unperverted by a bad lyricist, you can imagine the feelings it bestows upon thee in whatever manner its soft piano melody hits you.

Normies will never comprehend the holiness of melody.

>>129256336
Bank account and timestamp, lets go, this will be easy

>>129293701
Instrumental music is a good test for intelligence.
Stupid people may be able to achieve an understanding of language that mimics intelligence but they still do not have the capacity interpret concepts without words. Midwits tend to get bored if there's no words telling them what to think and the sound requires a bare minimum amount of personal interpretation.

>>129280928
>If you listen to vidya game or anime (or movie) music instead of real music
You can do all of those, you shouldn't restrict yourself to one type of medium.

>>129290253
>>129290590
>>129291171
>>129291467
>>129291541
>>129291885
This is either one absolutely SEETHING individual or a whole stinky room of gamers. I don't know what's worse.
Interesting how there isn't a SINGLE point addressed or attempt at constructing an argument, just emotional responses.

>>129295140
These posts too
>>129291962
>>129292547
>>129292549
>>129292599
>>129293446
>>129293795

>>129292599
ChatGPT doesn't use "--", it uses "—".

>>129291906
>there is so much angry ranting and buzzwords in this thread. no points are actually being proven.
I agree. I've explained pretty clearly why videogame music isn't taken seriously and why it's less autonomous than "serious" music throughout this thread, but all the responses I've gotten so far is children having temper tantrums. I have nothing against people who listen to it, but pretending it's some kind of superior art form that should be taken seriously, and not literally just functional music, is hilariously deluded/dishonest.

>>129291122
Do you see the system changing anytime soon? I don't. So no, I think it doesn't mean that. It's also a structural problem, like I've already explained.

>>129290287
>dungeon synth
Funnily enough, I realized that dungeon synth is just a shittier version of organ music.
>But they're meant to be appreciated as they are
I agree! That's why it makes sense to appreciate it as functional music, not something deeply serious or incredibly interesting.

>>129289771
>Rest of the post is wrong
It's not but thanks anyway.

>>129289452
>>129289452
It's been refuted several times indirectly with various posts ITT. Calling it the "purest form of music" only works if you're defining purity to mean lacking autonomy, intention, form or ambition. Music written to exist purely as support for gameplay is functionally subordinate by design. One of my deeper issues is that videogame music simply inherits the aesthetic poverty of videogames themselves, which are mostly childish and visually crude in essence.

>>129289257
Terrible, uneducated example. See >>129277842

>>129289153
If it's "bullshit", then dismantle the argument. Address my actual points. Which part is wrong, specifically? Just shouting "nuh uh!" isn't an argument. And offering generic radio pop muzak as a counterexample is laughable. You've still said nothing about autonomy or function.
>>129292166
Nope, not an argument. I accept your concession.

>>129290485
I've read through your posts and I don't think dissolving everything into "everything is subjective, therefore nothing can be said" makes a lot of sense. Functional vs. autonomous music isn't something a few people randomly invented ITT, and it isn't controversial.
Music written to sit in the background and support an external activity is teleologically different from music written to exist for its own internal development and logic. Nobody is arguing that functional music isn't "real music", but the difference absolutely exists whether you like it or not.
Saying "some vidya music is front and center" doesn't refute this. A loud or catchy cue, or music for a rhythmic game, is still subordinate if its role is to accompany gameplay and respond to it.
You also keep conflating popularity with artistic value. "People will be humming Megalovania in 10 years" isn't an argument. Plenty of shallow, even functional music is memorable, and plenty of serious/autonomous music was never mass-popular.
In the arts, you have intersubjective criteria that aren't just some vague, arbitrary nonsense: form, development, coherence, originality, necessity, historical context and other musical parameters. Reducing all of that to engagement metrics tells me exactly what kind of listener someone is.
Functional music isn't "fake music"; it just isn't serious in the same sense as autonomous art. Not understanding this is deluded, dishonest or just stupid. It's pretty clear why videogame music will never be taken seriously as an art form.

>>129290485
>>129295703
Oh and people will always yap about and parrot how elitist serious art or music supposedly is, but at the same time they will try to justify their own hobbies and preferences as being either serious or "just as valid". The result is a flattening where no distinctions can ever be made and nothing anyone does can ever be "lesser", which is, ironically, pretty elitist in itself.
"Don't judge anything" isn't a neutral position, because it's just a way of making sure that nothing you like can ever be judged as lesser, because that would be mean and unfair or something. It's an emotional response and basically cope. It's a way of insulating one's own subjective tastes from intersubjective judgment, which is the only kind of judgment in the arts that is reasonable and as close to objectivity as you can get.

should I make a part 2?

>>129295724
No, everything has been settled. Think of something else.