>Wagner : "Jews are going to ruin classical music">20 years later :https://youtu.be/bQHR_Z8XVvI?list=RDbQHR_Z8XVvI
>>129461952Atonality and the associated 12 tone system was a method to preserve tradition in the face of increasing Wagnerian influence that threw the rigours of common practice theory out the window, exchanging it for mere parsimonious voice-leading between tertian chords. Wagner was the true "Musik Entartete" ironically enough. What Schoenberg wanted to do was wrest hyper-chromatic hyper-modulatory late-romantic musical from the mythology that it logically descended from German music traditions, as opposed to the exhuberance of Fagner himself by putting it into its own framework so that people who made such music would eventually have a system by which to derive it. He knew a cork had to be put into the dam to get the Wagnerian waters and the Brahmsian waters (of the German tradition) flowing in their respective channels. So by making the language that contained the more emotional Wagnerian approach with its own intellectualism, he restored order to the future direction of music. Now this board blames him for ruining music tradition when he actually did his best to preserve it, because he's a Jew. Whether or not he had any success is another story. Meanwhile earlets and brainlets on 4chan think Wagner is traditional music because they like how it sounds better (as if such barbaric populism should matter). Rather it was more white*ids like John Cage (who Schoenberg, in teaching him, actually tried to graciously discourage from being a composer unless he would dedicate himself to the refining of his harmonic ear), Pierre Boulez and Karlheinz Stockhausen who decided to completely take an axe to tradition and anything good and decent.tl;dr: apologize
>>129461986Jews invented the concept of music that no one wants to listen to, even 120 years later. Groundbreaking
>>129461986>as if such barbaric populism should matterSad
>>129461986Correct.
>>129461952"I had imagined that I was going to meet music of an innovative kind but was astonished to find a pale imitation of Berlioz ... I do not like all the music of Berlioz while appreciating his marvellous understanding of certain instrumental effects ... but here he was imitated and caricatured ... Wagner is not a musician, he is a disease."- Charles-Valentin Alkan
>>129462024Alkan is a pianolet
>>129461952Nice set.I didn't notice it was a playlist and accidentally listened to 2 minutes of Scriabin after it ended.
>>129461999You don't get it. It's *sophisticated* dogshit.
>>129461986The "whiteoids" could make atonal classical music that still retained a sense of direction and musicality. Someone like Varèse can actually conjure something vivid. I've never heard something from a Schoenberg or a Feldman that didn't sound like a bad study.
>>129461952You know what? I like jewish music. I find the jewish tendency of trying to push formalisms to their limits absolutely fascinating. I wonder why it even came about. Maybe from their tradition of exegesis? Or is that downstream of the tendency? Whatever the case is, sometimes you end up absolute geniuses like Mahler and sometimes you get freaks like Zorn. Very interesting
>>129463124Cynicism.
Nothing is sacred to a jew save for jews.
>>129461952It really does sum up jewishness. Instead of embracing the societies in which they live in, they reject it in every way possible to separate themselves from the goyim.Instead of contributing to society in order to uplift people, they would rather embrace the ugly and grotesque as a statement of how much they despise people who are not jewish.
>>129461952This sounds fantastic! How long would it take to learn and play it?
>>129461952Well they did, "classical music" or good, melodic orchestral music is absolutely dead outside of (((Hollywood))) film scores, it's beyond depressing.
>>129463339>>129461999Inshallah, brother.
>>129463234>>129463260>>129463339Bahaha! Got any remarks on Mahler?
>>129463459I give him a pass for your sake because I like you.
>>129463471Alright. I was more or less expecting you to at least concede he's one of the good ones
Jewish music traditions are inherently based in klezmer music which was peasant entertainment in the shtetls. While this was good for popular music it did not lend itself well to the highbrow art music tradition of classical. That's the simplest and least /pol/-ish explanation for it.
>>129463562What are you talking about? Western classical music is full of popular folkloric motifs.
>>129461952To be honest, i have noticed that when seeking versions of classical songs I like, the jewish players play way too fast, like they are speeding through it almost skipping over the entire emotion of the piece. And when searching for recommendations for whichever song, it is always the Jewish players who are regarded as the all time great players. Very weird.
>>129463620>it is always the Jewish players who are regarded as the all time great playersisn't it always like Asians who are considered the all time great and they always play perfectly precisely but like a karaoke machine with zero expression or emotion?
Wagner wrote operas, a medium that was already 200 years outdated when he was writing them.
>>129463638i don't know man, but rubinstein playing chopin does absolutely nothing for me... and i love that music
Germans came back as saved music yet again after Schoenburg
>>129461986tl;dr don't trust your ears it actually is good chud
>>129463638That's how Asians are, lol. Even if you hear their traditional music it's totally robotic and has no expression at all.
>>129461986>Atonality and the associated 12 tone system was a method to preserve tradition in the face of increasing Wagnerian influence...But atonality and the associated 12 tone system are just Wagnerianism taken to its harmonically unstable extreme.
>>129463668Japs are much better at playing music than jews. Whether it's composition, interpretation or improvisation
>>129463804That's like saying acidity and bitterness is good in food so let's just drink glasses of vinegar and eat raw onions as if they were apples. Jews simply have no taste
>>129463935Are you conceited to the point of believing you can brush aside the history of serialism with something as vulgar as a food comparison? And not even a good one at that, since Schoenberg wasn't chasing dissonance for its own sake like you would chase pure acidity in drinking vinegar. What instead happened was that he identified that the german composers that preceded him had exhausted tonality, and thus what he attempted to do was rescue german music from formal exhaustion by providing a new framework for composition. Whether you think this hurts your ears :( is beside the point, none of the great composers of the time were interested in writing pieces inside a system they believed to be stagnant just to please the crowd. Yes, the artist is egotistical in this chase, but so is the listener when he demands his sensibilities (faggotries) be catered to
>>129464191>something as vulgar as a food comparisonMichelin starred chefs are more refined, sophisticated and knowledgeable than music composers. By far
>>129464191>exhausted tonalityThat's why jazz brought back tonality and literally replaced classical music in the west, even among hyper intellectual jews ?
>>129463916>>>/a/
>>129464287>>> reddit.com
>>129464255My aren't you witty. Maybe try that quip at /ck/.>>129464280Jazz didn't "bring back" tonality because it had had never left popular music at the time in the first place. Did you know? Jazz is a subset of popular music, not classical music, and thus they were mostly unconcerned about the exhaustion of formalism like classical composers were. Interestingly enough, something similar happened to jazz with half a century of delay; once jazz pivoted from improvisation over pop tunes to a cerebral exploration of changing tonal centers, best exemplified by Bird and Coltrane, it wasn't long before the post bop cats also got bored of tonal music and switched either to full blown free jazz or modal music in the 60s. Funnily enough modal music was extremely succesful and Kind of Blue sold well
>>129464341>My aren't you wittyYou are a pseud faggot, that's why you love to trick semi-retards into liking garbage
>>129464341>once jazz pivoted from improvisation over pop tunes to a cerebral exploration of changing tonal centersYou mean once jazz musicians started getting taught music by jews at Juliard, they ran it through the ground and turned it into garbage. Then black people had to be saved by funk and rock n roll to be able to produce relevant culture again. Jews literally ruin everything they touch
>>129464359Are you the guy gushing about gourmet chefs or the guy who let /pol/ hijack his brain?
Meanwhile, nogs from Detroit:
>>129464370You're too retarded to figure things out from the information that is given to you.
>>129464366>You mean once jazz musicians started getting taught music by jews at JuliardWho and when, exactly? Certainly not Ellington, or Mingus, or Trane, or Gillespie or Parker or Evans. Practically every single one the bebop and post bop legends learned their instruments either in church or with tutoring from local bands. Juilliard people might try to coast off Davis' prestige and claim him as their own, but he dropped before his second year was done to play with Bird. Besides, he only gave modal music a go fifteen years after dropping out, and can you guess why? Because when you hear Bird and Trane nail whatever lightning fast chord changes they're coming up with, you realize it's time to try something else. All of this happened independently from conservatoire or university education. What did Adorno think of jazz, again? The only notable scholar type in the time period when it comes to jazz was George Russell, who wasn't even jewish, he was a mulatto.>Then black people had to be saved by funk and rock n roll to be able to produce relevant culture againWhat the fuck are you talking about? Doo-wop and soul coexisted with jazz just fine during the 40s, 50s and 60s, the latter decade being the one when Motown took over. Who the fuck is Marvin Gaye? Who the fuck is Stevie Wonder? When rock and funk got their slice of the pie in the 60s, jazz had already existed for half a century, and even then, the new amplified music blew some life into it, jazz fusion did fine for the 70s. I guess black music finally died in the 80s when... no, wait, you forgot Michael Jackson. Do I have to go on or is this enough?You need to do some more work on your thesis. Did some kike bone your girlfriend or something? So far everything you said has been half-truth at best. Please stop pretending to care about music or the history of music when what you're interested in is just distorting everything until it fits on your /pol/-driven procrustean bed.
>>129463021Varese is genuinely dogshit
>>129463339>t. pussy who can't look at ugly things without needing to look away
>>129461952Shoenberg is good but so is Wagner.
>>129461952>Jews are going to ruin classical musicthere are still modern composers working inside the pre-modern form and even if there were none you'd still never listen to and digest the complete works of>bach handel haydn mozart beethoven chopin liszt mendelssohn wagner verdi brahms tchaikovsky bruckner mahler debussy haydnin your lifetime so why bitch about some jew when you have centuries of catching up to do
>>129461986lol ok bro
>>129466973Waow this shit is so ugly, my petit bourgeois sensibilities are so challenged right now
Jewish cynicism has only served to make the whole world sick. A neurotic world for a neurotic people.
>>129466973You might as well call him a pussy for disliking Slipknot
>>129461952Rhythmically that stuff you posted is good, like if you use it as backing to something else. Those chords are not bad at all. You know who uses them well? Hamauzu.He learned Schoenberg and you can see the application in some of his songs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXtcJP_AFUY
>>129461952this isn't serialism at allare you sure it isn't inspired by Steve Reich rather than Schoenberg
>>129467547meant to reply to >>129467518
>>129467518Weird, when you throw in some actual intent from a truly artistic mind you get something that doesn't sound like an overcerebral nerdlinger milking his mangled noodle all over a staff
>>129467558>>129467557>>129467547Point is. Some of the chords Schoenberg is spamming here & there are useful and sound good. Its good to have them on your arsenal as a pianist. You can make beautiful harmony with them, even if he didnt do so. I look at his music in parts I take what I like discard what I dont like.
One dude destroyed classical music? Thats pretty based
>>129461952wonder what level of musicianship you need to reach before stuff like this becomes natural, i dig the dynamics and can occasionally grasp some of the rhythmic patterns and some of the variations over the series but most bars feel like an extraneous puzzle i can't solve. same thing for some improvised music, maybe it sounds alright for the people that can. i guess this is what happens after decades of musicians making music for other musicians and i'm just outside looking in
>>129461952Schoenberg ruined it so he alone could take the blame and so no future composers would have to go down that road and suffer the same fate.
>>129461986>>129462024>>129463620>>129464341>>129465796effortposts? in my korean celebrity softcore board?
>>129467742>wonder what level of musicianship you need to reach before stuff like this becomes natural, i dig the dynamics and can occasionally grasp some of the rhythmic patterns and some of the variations over the series but most bars feel like an extraneous puzzle i can't solve. same thing for some improvised musicThats because its probably improvI bet he never played the same thing twice. many classically trained people of fame in their concertos didnt play the exact same thing twice there are parts that are pure improv to make it an unique experience for the public
>>129467866shush.dont reward stupid
>>129467742It's theoryfaggotry. You aren't actually meant to listen to it like music.
Over 100 years later and people are still filtered, amazing. Pierrot Lunaire is absolutely beautiful.
>>129463935I mean, food analogies being the most midwit comparison possible aside, I'm not arguing for or against atonality or the 12 tone method. My comment wasn't value-based. It's just a fact.
How can a man be this based?
>>129469309egon schille is very good
Gracie Abrams > Arnold Schoenberg
>>129463668So, you've never heard an anime OP? Never listened to a video game VST?
>>129469309His hand looks like a tired fighter.
>>129469500I have no doubt in my heart that Wagner would throw it all away for a chance to crack Gracie Abram's Jewussy.
>>129467922>Thats because its probably improv12 tone serialism is the furthest thing from improvisation possible
>>129461999>>129462967>>129463021how's third grade going?
>>129461952it sounds good. i don't get the criticism
>>129469176The comments on this one really confirm it as 2deep4u midwit trash
This really is just another jew grift like post-structuralism isn't it?
pilpul applied to music
>>129471738>>129471790Same pseud faggot pretending to like something they don't understand
>>129471970Correct and this try-hard wall of text >>129465796 is proof of it
>>129471986I understand it, but that's because I'm over the age of 12
>>129472258>no you !You are 12
>>129461952Oh so that’s why people don’t like Wagner. I mean, they run the record companies...
>>129471994>still seething about that one guy instead of posting a reply to itsorry man but you got mogged hard
>>129472322>>129465796Samefag
>>129471986this place is full of autists schizos
>>129472280well then how does it feel that you've been filtered by something a 12 year old could understand?
>>129472335
>>129472381>>129472429this place not having IDs breeds this weird quasi-paranoid tendency of thinking that everyone that calls you retarded is the same guy
Classical music for TooL fans
>>129467491look at developed cultures that dont have jewish influence China, Japantheir popular music still has inherent, objective beauty it has not been corrupted
>>129472555>inherent, objective beautywatch out we got Roger Scruton over here>China>marxist for yearsah yes marxism a famous non-jewish ideology
>>129472611>ah yesGo back
>>129472756you got me good there I think you're right maybe jpop really is objectively beautiful in a transcendental way and Marx wasn't a jew
>>129472921fuck off redditor
>>129472994here's a compromise, i might make an account on that website and hang out in there as long as you give me a convincing explanation on how China, which spent decades marxist, "doesnt have jewish influence". the absolute state of this board
>>129472921>>129473048samefag
>>129473142are you retarded? of course all these >>129472611 >>129472921 >>129473048 posts are mine
>>129473180retard
>>129473186what the fuck are you smoking? the posts I highlighted are all mine because we're having a back and forth. i'm not replying in a way that tries to sell that i'm more than a single person. i can't tell if you're confused as to what "samefag" means or if you're just having a bad trip. said it before and i'll say it again, the absolute fucking state of this board
>>129461986Wagner is Jesus, tearing down the failed traditions and ushering into a new age in the name of God while the priesthood shrieked and invoked the failed old laws.
>>129473180>>129473224samefag
Jews failed to realize they were in no position to refine or evolve existing German/European cultural traditions. They weren't asked to nor welcome yet they simply assumed they could coopt these traditions and wear them like a costume. Their impudence caused much bad blood. They learned from this and just went over to the US were such traditions were a custome to begin with and succeeded in creating their own authentic culture among the clueless local zogcattle goyim that would take over the world.
>>129473315>They weren't asked to nor welcomeYes they were, that's why Franz Joseph gave them equal rights and why Mahler could attend the Vienna Conservatoire, where he did well enough to later be appointed director of the state opera house, later on taking Schoenberg under his wing. Whether or not this was a mistake is a completely different discussion.>Their impudence caused much bad blood>They learned from this and just went over to the US [...]I think they went to the U.S. because a certain austrian painter, you know the one, decided every single jew in Europe, whether artist or worker, from the humblest poorfag to the banker he might have had reason to be suspicious of, was an insidious piece of shit that had to go. It is a huge irony that two other jews in the U.S., Von Neumann and Oppenheimer, ended up working in that Manhattan project thing that nuked Japan and ended the war the damned painter started. Thanks to him and his antics, nationalism is basically taboo in the Europe and europeans feel racial guilt to this very day, hence why they have been importing millions of migrants for decades. Yeah, thanks a lot. If you want to play the right wing game at least worship Franco instead of the meme painter because the former at least did some good to his country. I swear mongoloid wignats and their neighbours can't ever get anything right man
>>129473315Anyone can and Should get into classical music, that doesnt mean they are good at making it though, the Japanese are the best newcomers to European classical styles, but the Japanese always been that way, they learn something and they push it very far in a faithful manner.
Schönberg is AWESUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!U guys r just antisemetic IDIOTS who never listened to his first chamber symphony or string quartet
>>129474212There was no strategic value to nuking Japan at the time they did it, the enlightened Jews at the helm of the project just really really wanted to see some science at work.
>>129477720>There was no strategic value to nuking Japan at the time they did it,Anon, the nukes struck military targets, Hiroshima was the headquarters of Japans Second Army and Hiroshima Castle, and Nagasaki was a major manufacturing hub for the Japanese military, as it was home to Mitsubishi which was the largest arms and aircraft manufacturer in Japan at the time.
>>129464191>exhausted tonalityNo such thing, by the way.
>>129477451This but without a hint of irony.
>>129477451My professor (a big fan of Schoenberg) once described the First Chamber Symphony as "steamrolled Mahler", meaning a bunch of neurotic ideas condensed so much that they have no space to breathe or develop properly. I think he somehow meant that positively. The funny thing is, Schoenberg really thought the work was full of "singable tunes".That transition from 19th to 20th century classical is really where I switch from the Germans to the French and Russians. They did far more colorful things without sacrificing depth or rigor.
>>129462959So overall you listened to 2 minutes of good music. Nice.
>>129477720>There was no strategic value to nuking Japan at the time they did it, the enlightened Jews at the helm of the project just really really wanted to see some science at work.Sweet, now we're at true /pol/ territory where hopefully you'll feel at home. The issue is that you're still full of shit. The people in charge of the strategy, you know, the people who actually decide to nuke japan, were the military, authorized by the president, while the two guys I mentioned where just college professors who were called in to work for said military, contributing with theoretical and engineering work. Do you perhaps think Creel Marshall and Harry Truman were jews? Truman notably saw Oppenheimer as a sentimental retard after the bombs were out.You people seriously can't stop pulling shit out of your ass. You always latch onto some tiny snippet taken from the fucking walls I'm writing, spin some bullshit on top, and then call it a day, like you did on all these posts: >>129464280 >>129464366 >>129474212 >>129477720 , and if I want to set the record straight I'm forced to write yet another effortpost, from which you can spin another little lie on top.Brinks to mind a Bastiat quote:>In very few words they can announce a half-truth; and in order to demonstrate that it is incomplete, we are obliged to have recourse to long and dry dissertations.I can't tell if you're doing it intentionally or you just don't know any better, but it is what it is, and it leads fucking nowhere. Now that I see what you're doing I won't waste my time any further.
>>129480269Accidentally marked >>129474212 instead of >>129473315, which is the snippet I was actuallyreplying to. Misclick aside the point stands. Keep seething about Schoenberg and da jooz until you pop a vein
>>129463916Lol no. I don’t think jews are any better but there are only four are five actual good japanese artists. the rest are just sloppy copies of white and black music.
>>129472555>china, japanmaybe they are good at jazz or something but not the fucking popular music. asian popular """music""" is the fucking worst. even the gayest western pop is more straight than asian pop.
>>129477451someone over 18 posted this
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>>129467866The first post is an old pasta.
