Gounod editionhttps://youtu.be/_mfLNq_P5okThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>129507398
Whats similar sounding and as good as Chopin's preludes?
Have you ever been so mad that you hit an F6?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLs-Z47oFYw
I ask again, which has the better opening,Puccini's Madama Butterflyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiRYJ_9FUvs&list=PLjCUNOTbkeqp7PPPSnSfgqftp5b42wehjorR. Strauss' Der Rosenkavalierhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XNg4Of4h6M&list=PLjCUNOTbkeqqXH4jWee_jDOkaZobIOio8
>tfw patrician gf says I have one day to memorize the entirety of Schubert's Winterreise and be ready to sing it to her in the morning or we're doneO_O
fucked up and told a girl Ive played piano for years (I don't), what can I learn in two days that will make her believe that I can play. I picked up a $50 keyboard
>>129541897Learn like the opening bars of dont stop believing and she'll hug you before you have to go any further
>>129541897lol uh sounds like your best option is to get rid of the keyboard and when she comes over, if she asks about it, say "damn wish I could play you something but my keyboard is in storage/my friend's borrowing it"
>>129541915good idea, I can say my piano is being tuned or something
>>129541926>good ideadeception is my fortebest of luck!
>Actually we don't know what tuning Bach and other baroque composers usedWhy not just assume they used what sounds best?
>>129541897Anyone could learn to play this in a couple hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUcYgxGGNMIAnything by Philip Glass is also really easy to learnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMdU-oego4
>>129541979Because then that'd be dishonest.
Today we listen to David Briggs' transcription for organ of Mahler 5.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCKcVKQ7zPc
>>129541979because that's subjective and we can't agree on it
I just don't like Mahler. He was proto-star wars music
>>129542314In the same way Homer, Virgil, and Ovid are proto-fantasy literature, I suppose.
>>129542247Neat! I don't really care for the organ but this is cool
Why do Catholic composers mog all other religions? >Beethoven, Mozart, Bachs good work, Haydn, Palestrina, Schubert, Liszt, MahlerMeanwhile the prodestants are sterile and lame>Mendelssohn, Brahms (yawn!), Thats about it
>>129542409obviously it must be because there is some inherent truth in catholicism that inspired those composers and no other variables
>>129542438His good stuff was under Catholicism.
>>129542443I fucking self mogged its over
>>129542409Protestants also have pre-atonal Schoenberg.
What are Furtwangler's essential recordings?
People were talking about Mahler so I thought id give him a try, fucking jumpscared in the first 50 seconds
>transcription by cockgremlin49The struggles of trying to find sheet music these days.
Be real, the first time we heard Ride of the Valkyrae's was in Bugs Bunny
>>129542409Schutz, Buxtehude, Bach (using Catholic Mass as a text does not make it Catholic), Handel, C.P.E. Bach, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Wagner, Brahms, etc. well equal the achievements of Catholics in music.
>>129542409>BeethovenAgnostic>Mozart, HaydnFreemason heretics>MahlerLol
>>129543282>AgnosticHe very clearly believed in God. His Christianity being that of a non-denominational Romantic mystic is not the same as that being an agnostic, especially since he showed such love for the Catholic expression of his faith in God.
>>129543282Beethoven poured his heart out writing Pathetic for his love of God
Who are some sleep friendly composers?
>>129543512Reger
>>129543512There is a lot of good masses for that
>>129543512I like Debussy and Bach piano music for sleep. The Goldberg Variations were written for that very purpose!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMTBrHm3FS8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNpwAZf6thYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOCSBnCvOOQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcnYbpJhpN4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd5kUWDGyUshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L47SRue0gt8welcome to #SleepCityThere's some other go-to composers and pieces I like when going to sleep, however it can be quite subjective, so the ones I posted I think ought to work for anyone.
Why did 19th century composers write down when to use vibrato as a special effect? How would it not just blend in with the rest of the vibrato being constantly used by the singer?
Haydnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5y0zNZb4as
truth nuke: there is not one piece where Szell has the best recording
>>129544554Szell is the absolute worst conductor who ever lived, so yes.
>>129544554>>129544582https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3AhaMRXuV4
>>129544744Terrible.
>>129541739Gotta hand it to Strauss on this one.
>More often than not, the arrogant, insufferable Karajan refused to take the complementary role and yield the spotlight to singers, overwhelming them with powerful orchestral music, leaving the singers to struggle to compete with the orchestra and ruined the integrity of Verdi's soul-stirring, great tragedy expressed by human voices. hmm
>>129544805It's Puccini vs Strauss, of course Strauss is going to win.
>>129544932the Madama Butterfly opening is bomb and iconic tho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2lbz3qxjwkCan anyone please identify the piece playing at the very beginning of Ken Russell's Mahler when the composing hut is burning? Thanks
>>129545014Why yes, it's Mahler.heheyeah it's fromhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IQDQ9Qw0bQ
Sibeliushttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn0NnGNKokQ
is RachAnon around? you've done a Chopin top 10 before -- do you have a Rachmaninoff top 10? hard mode: splitting up the etudes and preludes into individual pieces
>>129546003I don't think I've done top 10 before. My "top 10" Rach, or anyone else for that matter, wouldn't include any of the preludes or etudes at all. As I've said, logner works are my primary interest. It would be a no-brainer, boring list. Here it is (in no order): Rach 1-4, symphonies 2, 3, symphonic dances, isle, cello sonata, trio 2. What else even qualifies here? Rhapsody? Too jazzy. 1st symphony? For people who don't like Rach. Preludes/etudes? Can't fathom prefering those over the bigger works. Sonatas, The Bells, Vespers, maybe Corelli variations? Acceptable.
>>129546199Huh, coulda' sworn you did with the Barcarolle ranked as the best piece. Maybe I'm mixing it up. Anyway, neat!
Ponchiellihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwx4RZM8qWs
huh, Karajan even has an Orfeo ed Euridice (Gluck) recording? now this I gotta hearhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV8TTJjxt_4
figaro, figaro...
Contrapunctus XI a 4 is the greatest musical creation to ever grace God’s green earth. That is all. (I quite like it as a quartet)https://youtu.be/TkYOXMUBoJk
For me, it's Contrapunctus IX.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D-98xB7Rzk
Composers who did not write any bad symphonies (exhaustive list):1. Beethoven2. BrahmsEveryone else has at least one dud.
>>129547585Beethoven's 1st, 2nd and 4th are mediocre. Brahms' 2nd as well.Mahler is literally the only composer with not a single bad or mediocre symphony.
>>129547596>Mahler is literally the only composer with not a single bad or mediocre symphony.1 and 8 are mediocre and 3 is just a mess.
>>129547809the world's first Mahler 3 hater
>Mahler wasn’t a composer, he knew very well the instruments of the orchestra and the audience is usually hypnotized by the richness of his sound but there are a lot of imperfections in his symphonies. The themes end before they should and appear when they shouldn’t. He gets lost in the developments and doesn’t know how to finish them. Apart from that, he was a liar and a traitor.
>>1295478091st is pretty good, wouldn't call it mediocre, but that's Mahler at his lowest. 8th is indubitably a masterpiece, 3rd is even better, it's basically a whole universe compressed into a symphony. If it's a mess, then so is the universe.Mahler is the formidable king of the symphony.
>>129547596Brahms 2nd is excellent (superior to the 1st for sure) and Mahler's first three symphonies are all a bit too diffuse. First movement of 3 is great though.
>>129547835>The themes end before they shouldNah. Celibidache was an awful conductor. His opinion is likewise terrible.
Handel was fat and bald
>>129547835this guy might be the biggest pseudo intellectual that ever lived.
>>129547445>>129547487The Art of Fugue is a miracle.
Bach isn't better than Mozart.
Mozart isn't better than Beethoven
Karajan isn't better than Bernstein.
Beethoven isn't better than Schubert
Schubert isn't better than Chopin.
>>129549165>>129549194>>129549208>>129549213>>129549239All true
Chopin isn’t better than Debussy
Debussy isn't better than Bach.
>>129542314He insists upon himself
>>129548471Polyphony is the miracle
Can someone explain what's going on here? (And don't roast me if this is a stupid question which it likely is.)This is Bach's famous prelude obviously.But in the fifth bar it doesn't play the submediant chord, instead it plays the dominant chord.Is this a flawed score, or a different version from the one we tend to hear, or what's going on here?
>>129550130Since it says "Die früheste erhaltene Fassing" and "BWV 846a" instead of simply "BWV 846" this score is presumably following a different manuscript from the ones typically used when creating an edition of the WTC.
>>129550130>>129550167this is probably the version in the Anna Magdalena book
>>129550130Yes, in the original manuscript it is the VI. This is either a different version as the other anon suggests and/or a dumbed down version no one should ever use.
>>129542332Ovid is fine but I do dislike Homer and Virgil’s books despite their importance.
>>129541523What's your favorite music for jerking off /classical/? Mine's Shostakovich Cello Concerto No. 1 and Tchaikovsky 6.
>>129550319if you dislike Homer you either read a shitty translation or you are genuinely, medically retarded
>>129550428I can't listen to anything, it's too distracting.
>>129550497Yeah, Homer is the peak of classic literature for sure.
>>129550319>but I do dislike Homer and Virgil’s books despite their importance.:O
https://youtu.be/xcqz8yNLspA?si=FDpOiF48vEnCvurQ&t=786How did he do it?
>>129550617step 1: be a musical genius
>>129550167>>129550183>>129550308Thank you
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-Flat Major, Op. 73 "Emperor"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZntVTnFZd0&list=OLAK5uy_nTd79GklRVr2uSjVX0F6CCOOEa7KdfAa4&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZntVTnFZd0&list=OLAK5uy_nTd79GklRVr2uSjVX0F6CCOOEa7KdfAa4&index=1Surely one of the all-time great performances of this masterpiece.
>>129550521>doesn't know how to read poetry>applies modern expectations to 3000 year old work>cried about itliteral skill issue
best German Organ Mass recording?
my current wagner obsession scheduleday A: listen to the Ringday B: listen to Tannhauser, Lohengrin, Parsifalday C: listen to Meistersinger, Flying Dutchman, Tristan und Isoldethen repeat with different recordings and on and on
>>129551293Do you listen to the full Ring Cycle in a day?
>>129551359in actuality no, usually just two parts + other music, but it worked better listing it like that
Music!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Qx6w2XUbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sel6kUT_y_I
>>129550645>Surely one of the all-time great performances of this masterpiece.it's fine
Scriabin is my beloved friend.
Why did none of you fucks told me Honegger was amazing. I specifically asked if he was any good several times of a periof of months. Fuck.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu7NskuYF7Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2WmIoUeX1chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa5nMSrME-4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PjvRC6OGbohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAl6ZnIDwKEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqSFBwBC0S0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73erL8o_9whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4FmuobrUs4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AR8Y8bWFSwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrDpP0Z2ojEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeqhKYRV7ughttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOJwnhuckgMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rocZ_0CayFohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcHHFH1AN_0&pp=ygUVaG9uZWdnZXIgcnVnYnkgZHV0b2l0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qFqUUQx2Lshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3hVKRbXfTYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3hVKRbXfTYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCR7yozGRBAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqRW1fct1whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqRW1fct1whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJm2AEcbzIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vnhPVyMb38https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUGLqJEfJAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpT_I8tjxbQ
>>129553823Because no one listens to that You'll be lucky if you get Mendelssohn from me.
>>129553854That's a strange non sequitur. Everyone here listens to and loves Mendelssohn. He's as perennial as Brahms or Mozart.
>>129553884I know more about him than anyone.
>>129550710No, it's bug-turd-picking. It's like cherry-picking but instead of choosing the best, often disjointed bits to make something seem more appealing than it is, you choose teensy tiny bad bits that are rare and separate from eachother in order to make something seem far worse than it is.
>>129553891Congrats. Still a non-sequitur.
Impressed some girls by playing Rush E on the dorm piano
>>129553823Is a motherfucker gonna have to shill an underrated/overlooked composer again? It's been a while since I was at it with Tippett, Clementi, and Chabrier
>>129553894I remember soeone once smugly telling me they quit the Illiad, Homer, and all graecoroman myth/legend/etc after one paragraph of the Catalogue of Ships
>>129553897No I don't think so actually.
>>129553919>"No one listens to Honegger.">"You'll be lucky if I talk to you about Mendelssohn, whom I know more about than anyone"Ah yes, perfectly connected "syllogism"
>>129553932It's about classicsal. reread our interaction and see if that helps.
>>129553823Didn't know he had anything beyond the symphonies and string quartets. Thanks!
Never heard Chopin other than SMT Nocturne 9, 55, and that one sad one. What other works of his should I check out?
>>129554615see>>129535178>>129535314https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__hMZL1uoswhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuB3hWjIpPchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYHZTWq974Yetc etc
>>129554656Should I avoid Rubinstein
>>129554665His recordings are famous for a reason but I don't think they're the end-all be-all, and they aren't in the best audio quality. So listen to them if you want but don't think it ends there is all I'm saying.
>play me something anonwhat do you play?
New vocal-autist-and-modern-opera-hating youtube channel just dropped for me to binge watch their videos:https://www.youtube.com/@VocalReckoning/videos
>>129554687Females love Chopin
>>129554783I won't buy it until I hear a conductor I like say it. Of course, you could argue they settle for what they have available, and therefore won't criticize the limited available talent, but still.
how's Barenboim's Tannhauser?
now playingWalton: Scapino, C. 40https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztzLsVOacE&list=OLAK5uy_ld1g1NSoSW0uUvAm-ePitj6MVd95ceAac&index=2start of Walton: Cello Concerto, C. 65https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkRgimn90WA&list=OLAK5uy_ld1g1NSoSW0uUvAm-ePitj6MVd95ceAac&index=3start of Walton: Symphony No. 1, C. 27https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaifaTjq8us&list=OLAK5uy_ld1g1NSoSW0uUvAm-ePitj6MVd95ceAac&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ld1g1NSoSW0uUvAm-ePitj6MVd95ceAac>The First Symphony was largely inspired by the composer's tempestuous love affair with the widowed Baroness Imma von Doernberg, whom Walton met in 1929 and with whom he was living on the Continent in the early 1930s. Although the work was long in gestation, with a particular delay in the composition of the finale, the result was universally acclaimed as an outstanding success, with John Ireland commenting "unlike any other English symphony, this is in the real line of symphonic tradition. It is simply colossal, grand, original, and moving to the emotions to the most extreme degree... It has established you as the most vital and original genius in Europe". Walton's star was in the descendent through the 1950's, with a poor reception to his opera Troilus & Cressida, and equally negative comments for his Cello Concerto, which was widely considered to be embarrassingly old-fashioned in it's essentially neo-romantic idiom. Commissioned by Gregor Piatigorsky (at the suggestion of Heifetz), the work was first performed in Boston under Charles Munch in January 1957, with the UK premiere under Sir Malcolm Sargent following a month later. Walton was unable to attend that concert as he was hospitalised following a car accident on the journey to London from his home in Italy. Now widely perceived as one of Walton's most important late scores, the work is performed here by Sinfonia of London's principal cellist Jonathan Aasgaard.
>>129554783>>129554806I will admit I hear the difference of clarity in the older examples he shows.
Jonas Kaufmann is a hack who just belts out the notes with no regard for the music. No idea how he got popular.
>>129554806People might not be overly critical of young singers, but pretty much everyone admits that the age of 'great singing' and of 'big voices' has passed. Also interesting that Christa Ludwig said that all singers sound the same now and have no unique character even if they sing well. Shows how teaching methods have changed.
>>129554862He's also guilty of that sinful practice known as ingolato.
I wonder what gets them to release some operas on DVD+CD and others only on DVD. It seems the most popular Tannhauser on DVD is James Levine's but it's not on CD, sad.
Don't let Bach distract you from good music.
>>129555151Bach is the beginning and the end. There is no God but Bach.
>>129555199But don't let that distract you from good music.
>>129554806>I won't buy it until I hear an argument from an authority I likeWhy not just use your ears? Shit is obvious.
>>129555415I recognize there is a significant distinction between modern and older singing. The part I don't agree with is modern outright sucks. Older may be better, but modern is still good.
>there are no good women conducto--ACK!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLnYyu_tdNI&list=OLAK5uy_mITFLdGSq6j4_kr3pWMC3jk71Z8TBRvvo&index=4
>>129555444>but modern is still good.You are an actual retard.
>>129555480https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_gbDzvDSQw&list=OLAK5uy_mzOX7nqxJwOsPLok8PmhNA0EbpHyAWrQU&index=8sounds great to me...?
>>129555470don't even have to listen to it to know that it's shit thanks to those egregious timings
>>129555491A bit on the slower end, yeah, but not slower than, say, Giulini or Haitink or even Sinopoli?
>>129555490>greatYou use that word way too easily. This is okay at best. The pitch is wobbly and unsteady on her voice and she really should not be using that sort of vibrato if she can't control it. She has no real power over her dynamics either, being relatively flat and sounding decidedly light even when she tries to muster volume. Also, very mediocre diction overall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij2AitYNYdw Nilsson easily mogs, as do most other singers from this era. I'll grant this is mildly better than the ultra dogshit Wagnerian sopranos that I've recently listened to on Rattle's trashy recordings, but not by much. There is literally no reason to listen to it over older recordings, it offers nothing. >>129555499>A bit on the slower end, but not slower than these other excessively slow conductors ?
huh, Szell has a Tannhauser recording? anyone heard it?>Unfortunately, in this recording the thrill is missing. This is a fast-paced but pedestrian performance. Despite his much-vaunted perfectionism, Szell's conducting is unimaginative, blunt, and hard-edged. There is very little lyricism to be found here. And some of the singers seem miscast.ouch!
>>129541556Scriabin preludes, obviously.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkAvvulBDfYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3tW9U2SwQc
>>129555511>I'll grant this is mildly better than the ultra dogshit Wagnerian sopranos that I've recently listened to on Rattle's trashy recordings, but not by much.Rattle/BRSO Gotterdammerung when!?!?>There is literally no reason to listen to it over older recordings, it offers nothing.sound quality? conductor interpretation and vision? because even if hate modern singers, there's still great conductors with plenty to offer
>>129555511>>A bit on the slower end, but not slower than these other excessively slow conductors >?I just meant Young's doesn't fall into the excessively slow camp, even if it is moderately slow. But I suppose what makes it excessively slow varies from person to person. I'm just saying the runtimes aren't jawdropping or anything.
>>129543512Koechlinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB_iK9yIlFIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pg3zoQIrbIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xce2XP2nhWo
>>129555490Holy shit this sounds so awful compared to >>129555511I'm not sure how one could call such atrocity "great"
>>129541556There's nothing quite like Chopin's Preludes, but other Chopin, Faure's piano music, and maybe Grieg's Lyric Pieces.
>>129555546>>129555511Yes, the Solti/Nilsson recording is stellar, but doesn't mean we ought to never listen to any others ever. And as I always say, with classical recordings it's not necessarily about finding the very best one to marry for the rest of your life, it's about variety in creative vision and performance sound. So sure, if I could only have one, I'd take Solti's, but Gatti's has plenty to offer, and manages to distinguish itself from the older staples like Solti, Bohm, Mehta, Sinopoli, et al.
>>129555549>Faure's piano musicDoesn't sound like Chopin apart from some early pieces or short sections in some nocturnes. Scriabin is closer.
>>129555540>sound quality Any Decca recording at their peak is the equivalent and in many cases surpasses modern recordings, especially in terms of impact and vividness (even if the vivid quality of those Decca recordings are somewhat unrealistic)>conductorI mean, sure. Janowski is one of the best Wagnerians for example. And his interpretation on Pentatone for the Ring is even better than his previous Eurodisc/RCA one. But I am not able to shut out terrible singing in favor of interpretation and there are many old recordings where I don't need to make a hard choice.
>>129555572yes but another anon already named and linked Scriabinand might I direct your attention tohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdPetLZZs2candhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2qmcL4NUik
>>129555582I'm familiar with the barcarolles. They don't really sound like Chopin. I also don't hear it in the impromptus. Faure's biggest influences were Saint-Saëns and Schumann.
>>129555572Fauré and Debussy are closer to Chopin than Scriabin's meandering preludes, although his sonatas and etudes have more in common with Chopin than anyone else. In fact all 3 are closest it gets to Chopin along with Liszt, Rachmaninoff and Ravel
>>129555592It's quite amusing to see someone call 30-90 second pieces meandering. Are you sure this isn't a problem of your attention span? But no, that's not really accurate. Early Scriabin is the most obviously Chopinesque composer of all time. I suppose early Debussy comes close. But there are literally Scriabin preludes that are obvious imitations of Chopin pieces, and it's easy to point them out. I'd recommend listening to the music before climbing peak Dunning-Kruger.
>>129555573>Any Decca recording at their peak is the equivalent and in many cases surpasses modern recordings, especially in terms of impact and vividness (even if the vivid quality of those Decca recordings are somewhat unrealistic)Anon, there are some who think you shouldn't listen to anything post-Keilberth for Wagner's Ring. That's the generation I'm comparing to.There's still some minute advancements in sound quality though. You can tell Zweden's and Thielemann's Wagner Ring against, say, Solti's and Bohm's. Not so much that it makes the latter obsolete, of course, but enough to where it's some points in the modern recordings' favor.Look, all I'm saying, and all I care about is, let's keep supporting modern and living artists. Yes, the Rings of Karajan, Solti, Bohm, and Furtwangler are incredible, and will never get old, but let's give Young, Zweden, Thielemann, Levine (RIP), etc. and their performers some love and credit too.
>>129555624>that's the generation I'm comparing toMany of the singers on the Keilberth Ring are still on Solti's. >minute advances in sound qualityI mean in terms of the mics used maybe but the presentation of both Bohm and Solti's Ring is far more vivid and dramatic which suits the music. I would never prefer Thielemann's Ring in terms of sound alone. >let's support new performers just because they're newNo.
>>129555522I always get jealous reading these reviews from people who so thoroughly know what they're talking about when it comes to recordings of classical music. Someday, me...
>>129555656>>let's support new performers just because they're new>No.New AND good (if in their own way). Just because those old classic recordings may be 9-10/10s (though I think some of the really old ones ought to be capped at lower than 10 because of the sound quality), doesn't mean the newer ones which are "only" 7, 8, or 9/10 are worthless and shit. The way some people here talk, you'd think Knappertsbusch, where you can't even hear the orchestra, is a 10 and Levine's which sounds glorious is a 0 and unlistenable garbage.I guess there's really nothing I can say to convince you all if the modern singing so utterly ruins the music for you guys. It doesn't for me, and therefore I'm able to enjoy and appreciate what new and different things modern musicians are doing with the music today.
>>129555718>7, 8, or 9Barely any opera recordings made in the last 20 years are higher than a 5. Your constant influx of shitty Amazon reviews has led you to have an incredibly skewed view of ratings, that Gatti excerpt you claimed as "great" being easy evidence of that. I listen to plenty of new performers, and am not exclusively interested in historical recordings, but, as far as opera is concerned, we have an objective lack of talent. I am not going to support an opera recording with interesting conducting as its bare minimum. They are accompanying. Ultimately what matters most in an opera are the singers and amongst modern recordings there is no competition there. Occasionally you hear a broadcast of an opera with provincial singers that has tolerable singing, so I do not believe it to be completely hopeless, but one of the main issues with opera is that coddling critics have totally failed in their mission to keep artists accountable for bad decisions. When Karajan put DFD into the shoes of Wotan for his Das Rheingold recording, the critics of his day were scathing. It has been brought up time and time again as the "but" of his cycle, and DFD had ten times the talent of any Wotan recorded for the past two decades. I return to Rattle. I do not like Rattle generally. He is 9 times out of 10 a very poor conductor. However, this is a pretty well conducted Walküre. His Siegfried is even better. Great orchestral color. Urgent, forceful conducting in the vein of Böhm. The recording is vivid and I hear details I rarely make out in other recordings.And the singing is universally complete and utter dogshit. Not just mediocre, but actual offensive dreck. I suppose even the marketing department knew this, because do you notice anything about the cover? No mention of the vocalists at all. Just Rattle and his orchestra. Because that's all that's left in opera today.
His Haydn Creation, which has better and more modest singing, has the main vocalists on the cover. The marketing department were not embarrassed.
people have downloaded this version of the Brandenburg Concertos (Philip Ledger with the English Chamber Orchestra) from me on Soulseek about ten hundred billion thousand times over the past 3 weeks or so. it happens to be my favourite recording of them but is it particularly well regarded compared to others?also these people are clearly in cahoots, there must be discussion of this recording happening elsewhere on the internet
>>129555610It's quite amusing that you're blaming this on attention-span while you don't even know what I listen to. I have no issues with Wagner and Mahler for instance, in fact that's what I mostly listen to. Dunning-kruger comment was quite ironic too considering you don't even seem to know the harmonic language of Scriabin, which is literally meandering, especially for the preludes which don't allow it to truly grow into something else.Maybe consider discussing something instead of chimping out like an illiterate bitch you are? Lol
>>129555825>>And the singing is universally complete and utter dogshit. Not just mediocre, but actual offensive dreck. I suppose even the marketing department knew this, because do you notice anything about the cover? No mention of the vocalists at all. Just Rattle and his orchestra. Because that's all that's left in opera today.kek>>129555837yeah that Creation is pretty dope. So are Rattle's Janacek operas.
For this morning's opera performance, we listen to Verdi's Otello conducted by Herbert von Karajanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBt5oHl_Fnw&list=OLAK5uy_lKP2kjiUgwCpqvrWRtO4pWpnEYjeFdWMY&index=6
>>129555925I haven't a clue except to say that is a perplexing situation and an intriguing question.
>>129555532Thanks these are hitting the spot. >>129555549I've listened to most (if not all) of Chopin's catalogue at this point. Faure I've only listened to his nocturnes which were nice. >>129555592The Rachmaninoff preludes hit the spot for me too
>>129556470A very good performance, even if apparently Karajan made del Monaco tone it down a bit.
>>129556538Don't forget about Rachmaninoff's Etudes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtObD71L8Ekhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L6CxUpBZlYAnd for extra fun, some of his variationshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiDtLscGnn8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oILLr5Lg9OIand both suites for two pianoshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOxsajQmxoE
>>129556062Do you even know what you're talking about? The discussion is about the Scriabin preludes that are similar to Chopin. Naturally, one would assume we're talking about early Scriabin here. The harmonic language of Scriabin isn't this single, homogenous thing; it goes through three significant transformations. Even if one were to accept the dilettante, surface-level-analysis premise that late Scriabin is 'meandering', early Scriabin is far from that.>especially for the preludes which don't allow it to truly grow into something elsePreludes are by definition usually short, fragmentary and monothematic. Rachmaninoff's preludes are one of the rare exceptions to this rule.Ultimately, this seems like a (You) problem, because your expectations are unrealistic. By your logic, Chopin's Prelude in A major, Op. 28, No. 7 is meandering, because it's so short and doesn't grow into anything. Or are there some mental gymnastics unknown to me at play here that would explain why the fragmentary Chopin pieces are fine, but the early Scriabin pieces somehow aren't.
>>129556713>Preludes are by definition usually short, fragmentary and monothematicOh, and I'm obviously talking about the Prelude as standalone piece that Chopin established. And I should add 'concentrated' as well.
>>129556538>Thanks these are hitting the spot.You're welcome. At least some people have the fair-mindedness to enjoy them. :)
Hec what's your new last.fm username? I used your profile for recs, lasshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwKropNNeUA&list=PLmCLUrrx_kSf4VHRwAIHjEbTtrBlb7YyN
>>129556713>Or are there some mental gymnastics unknown to me at play here that would explain why the fragmentary Chopin pieces are fine, but the early Scriabin pieces somehow aren't.Never said they aren't fine, I just find them less Chopinesque than the usual Scriabin, and also less enjoyable. The rhythm and harmony in Chopin preludes (e.g. the A major) are pretty straightforward. This allows Chopin to have some unique element to each prelude, without overloading the music. Scriabin's rhythm is usually vague, never mind the harmony, so it all just blends into one another. I find any genre or form by Fauré/Debussy more resembling of Chopin than the Scriabin preludes. Of course, it's up to the anon to decide whatever he'll listen to(looks like he enjoyed them!), I just pointed the obvious.
>>129553884>Everyone here listens to and loves MendelssohnI only recall his Violin and Piano concerto, don't think I've listened t anything else by him kek
>>129556982You haven't listened to his symphonies, chamber music and lieder ohne worte?
>>129556982Literally everyone and their grandma knows his wedding march.>>129556994His Lieder ohne Worte are a total snoozefest.
>>129557006knowing ≠ actively listening to, theres lot of music I know that I do not put to listen to at all>>129556994No, may have listened to it once but don't recall ever putting to to listen to, now that I say it it's been a long time since I've listened to symphonies (or at least something with "symphony" in the title, contemporary works tend to not have that)
>>129556600I'm quite liking it!
>>129557006ok soullet
Best Bruckner 8?
>>129558081Poschner
Ive been self training opera singing, how can I get a gig?
>>129558733Post a vocaroo.
What would you consider Mozart's greatest non-opera orchestral work
>>129558764Concerto no.23, indubitably.
The finale of Don Giovanni > all of Mozart's symphonies combined.
Hamelin is a living GODhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P60z7m7RhE8&list=OLAK5uy_kM9P0Ve0ddPj3h4cGWTl6dU93gPDenT_A
Are there classical music influences in the drain gang collective's work? Here is one of their songs for examplehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KkMyDSrBVI
>>129556967>Never said they aren't fineOne would assume that calling something meandering means you don't have a favorable opinion about it.>Scriabin's rhythm is usually vague, never mind the harmony, so it all just blends into one another.Seems like a vague criticism. Some rhythms are 'vague' (you probably mean polyrhythmic), while others are pretty straightforward. Same goes for harmony, even though Scriabin generally pushes both parameters further than Chopin ever did. But then you have examples such as Prelude Op. 11 No. 15, which is completely diatonic and rhythmically simple.Not sure why having complex rhythms or harmony would necessarily make all the pieces blend into one another, as there are other musical parameters, as well as the character of the piece in question, to consider. Likewise, I don't see the connection in having straightforward rhythm or harmony to necessarily correlate with uniqueness.>I find any genre or form by Fauré/Debussy more resembling of Chopin than the Scriabin preludes. Of course, it's up to the anon to decide whatever he'll listen to(looks like he enjoyed them!)Fair enough.
>Schumann is known to have written 5 letters to Chopin (only one letter survives), but Chopin never reciprocated. He did not care for Schumann's music,[13] and his only apparent mark of respect towards Schumann is his dedication of the Ballade No. 2 in F major, Op. 38, to him, which may have been out of politeness as much as anything. For his part, Schumann not only dedicated his Kreisleriana, Op. 16, to Chopin,[14] he also wrote his own Variations on Chopin's Nocturne in G minor, Op. 15/3 (first published 1981), in between their two meetings;[8] he wrote a respectful imitation of a Chopin nocturne in a section called simply "Chopin" in Carnaval, Op. 9; and he remained a lifelong staunch champion of Chopin's music,>Chopin is reported to have said that Carnaval was not music at all.[9] Chopin did not warm to Schumann on the two occasions they met briefly and had a generally low opinion of his music.What an asshole
>>129559595From what I remember reading, Chopin did not like anyone else's music except Bach.
The worst name? Mendelsohn
>>129559681Based
>>129559595An interesting thought I came across, was that the contrasting nature of the ballade no.2 (slow/serene and fast/aggressive, rondo-like structure) is in fact a nod to Schumann's Florestan/Eusebius, so it wasn't a mere dedication but acknowledgement of Schumann's artistic vision, which Schumann failed to notice, and didn't praise the ballade as much as he did the first one. I wonder how'd he comment on late Chopin though. But yeah, Chopin wasn't cool. He was an introvert douchebag. Liszt was the exact opposite. Strangely enough, they got along quite well. Except for that one appartment occasion.>>129559681And Mozart, Bellini, that's about it. He wasn't a huge Beethoven fan either, which is surprising since sometimes he sounds very Beethovenian. But that just might be Bach on steroids.
>>129558081>>129558081Karajan/Vienna or Giulini
>>129559870it's always Karajan isn't it
>>129559838>introvert douchebag He's just like me
>>129559893K-God*though he might not necessarily have the best Bruckner 3-6s
confession: Verdi's Il Trovatore is kinda kitsch
now playingstart of Franck: Symphony in D Minor, FWV 48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4XeZZ3Rnxk&list=OLAK5uy_nZy0rZgGqhLTpr-7Tf22uAUsrDkpvezn0&index=2start of Stravinsky: Petrushkahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28wj52qk7mI&list=OLAK5uy_nZy0rZgGqhLTpr-7Tf22uAUsrDkpvezn0&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nZy0rZgGqhLTpr-7Tf22uAUsrDkpvezn0This recording ought to be in every classical fan's library.
>>129559893Also, just to be clear, there are many, many good and even great Bruckner 8 recordings -- Karajan's isn't the only one worth checking out by a longshot. But yes if you're asking for the desert island choice, Karajan's is required listening.
>>129560128>kitschOpinion immediately discarded.
>>129559870yawn
>>129560246>t. likes stuff everyone thinks to be kitsch
>>129559893if you are retarded yes
>>129559904damn you should kill yourself
>>129560292Feel free to make your own recs
a Scriabin opera would have been fun
>>129560377no fukin thanks
>>129560393>t. apollonian materialist
Debussyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr_OkDwcbPI
> Thielemann's conducting is very good, but of a generic sort, rarely achieving the heights of Furtwangler to which he aspires. He manifests yet again his penchant for pauses where they are not indicated in the scores - most damaging at the very end of Gotterdammerung. But his most offensive pause comes at Wotan's final challenge to Erda in the 3rd act of Siegfried. Wagner scored a pause here, and most conductors take it as a 2-3 second pause. Thielemann takes well over 10 seconds! DG hides the effect of this pause by inserting a disc change right in the middle of Thielemann's endless pause, but you can hear the ambient sound at the end of disc 9 and beginning of disc 10.that's hilarious
>>129560411blop glorp sclorp
>>129560948>the heights of FurtwanglerGod is there anyone in all of classical music more overrated than Furtwangler? Even Gould has his detractors, but Furt has a full blown cult
Can this pic be the next OP
>>129561112to be fair the Thielemann/Furtwangler comparison is apt, but you've got a point.>In1971, critic Deryck Cooke famously declared Furtwängler’s Ring was the “greatest gramophone event of the century”.
>>129561128Sorry but we are overdue for another Chad Schumann
>Like Sibelius, Medtner does not flout current fashions, he does not even deliberately ignore them, but so intent going his own individual way is he that he is simply unconscious of their very existence... he has made for himself, by the sheer strength of his own personality, that impregnable inner shrine and retreat that only the finest spirits either dare or can inhabit.>I love him very much, I respect him very much, and I consider him [Medtner] the most talented of all the modern composers. He is - as musician and as man - one of those rare beings who gain in stature the more closely you approach them. That is the fate of the very few!Medtner lived outside of time, outside of trends, beyond the normal, and into the infinite realm of self-constructed beauty. Not a composer to sightsee, his methods are obscure to those who have not the patience to sit down and truly listen with intent. Only those who see further than the immediate can approach his work, a tune is never being, but always becoming. Fire exchanged for fire.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhsD1MeQaXM
>>129561112Sure. Carlos Kleiber is significantly more overrated, for instance.
>>129561277muh beethoven 5, muh beethoven 7, muh tristan und isolde
>>129561258Fine, I'm sold.
>>129561277to be fair his Brahms 4 is indeed pretty good
Gould's Brahmshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWUlWQbutUI
>>129561397I like his approach but in that vein it's not one I reach for personally.To be clear, Kleiber is not a bad conductor. Overrated doesn't mean bad. But he has been stated time and time again to be the best conductor ever by so many people despite the rather limited repertoire he has on disc.
This one any good?>The latest product presents Tobias Kratzer’s provocative new staging of Tannhäuser, a palpable hit for the legendary Wagner festival last summer. Being a staging director sounds like such an awesome job.
>>129561432Obviously not.
>>129561432this looks so unbelievably disrespectful to what I consider to be one of the greatest works of art of all time.but it might also be funny.
>>129561423what Brahms 4 do you prefer?
>>129561540As someone who has only listened to it and never read the synopsis, is Tannhauser not about clowns?>but it might also be funny.try it!
>>129561554it's more about how sexy women can ruin your life
Actually, while on the topic, is the whole "updating the art staging of an opera/play" a modern thing, or have people been doing it forever? Like if Wagner saw this >>129561432, would he go "oh cool, an updated production for modern sensibilities, like we did with Mozart and Handel" or would he go "wtf are you doing"?
>>129561573Damn now I've really gotta watch it...
>>129561586much closer to "wtf are you doing?"it's called regietheater, look it up.
>>129561611Oh cool, thanks.>It can be argued[who?] that Regietheater began with the work of Wieland Wagner (1917–1966), who in the years after World War II responded to the profound problematisation of the work of his grandfather, Richard Wagner, resulting from its earlier appropriation by the Nazis, by designing and producing minimalist and heavily symbolic stagings of Wagner operas in Bayreuth and elsewhere. Guided by the theories of Adolphe Appia, Wieland Wagner's productions allegedly sought to emphasise the epic and universal aspects of the Wagner dramas, and were justified as being attempts to explore the texts from the viewpoint of (often Jungian) depth psychology. In practice this would mean, for example, that the opening act of Die Walküre (the second work of the Ring Cycle), specifically described as set in Hunding's forest hut, was presented on a stage shaped as a large, sloping disc: no hut was either seen or implied, and the composer's many detailed instructions relating to the actions of Wehwalt, Sieglinde and Hunding within the hut were disregarded because it was said that the details of the scoring meant that they were already illustrated musically.>Wagner's grandsonso we've come full circle
>>129561432>>129561455>>129561540https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TNnHos-8xEthis is some weird shit
>>129561651That overture scene just changed my life.
>>129561623That's cope. Wieland was still very respectful to the roots of Wagnerian productions. Where it really started was with Boulez who went for a modern approach that heavily leaned into allegory for the real world.
>>129561694Yeah that's the next example on the Wiki page>Examples>In 1976 the Patrice Chéreau production of the centenary Bayreuth Ring sought to make manifest an anti-capitalist and Marxian subtext recognized to be present in the work given the time of its original creation: following this conception, Wagner's mischievous Rhinemaidens became three ragged whores plying their trade near a hydroelectric dam, the gods are a late-19th century industrialist family, and Siegfried used an industrial steam-hammer to forge his sword.[6]damn so this whole practice is really modern then. I woulda' assumed it started with Brecht and those guys at the very latest.
>>129561716I honestly blame this for the death of opera as a popular artform
>>129561785You don't think it's had the opposite effect? I could, for example, see someone not giving a shit about a medieval setting but if it were updated to something they were familiar with, they'd be more intersted.
> Bernard Shaw, The Perfect Wagnerite (1883) on www.marxists.org Regarding Wagner's Socialist leanings (which forced him into exile in Switzerland and France), Shaw writes that "we have reached the point at which some foolish person is sure to interrupt us by declaring that The Rhine Gold is what they call 'a work of art' pure and simple, and that Wagner never dreamt of shareholders, tall hats, whitelead factories, and industrial and political questions looked at from the socialistic and humanitarian points of view." Later, in summing up The Ring: "there is a considerable portion of The Ring, especially the portraiture of our capitalistic industrial system from the socialist's point of new in the slavery of the Niblungs and the tyranny of Alberic, which is unmistakable, as it dramatizes that portion of human activity which lies well within the territory covered by our intellectual consciousness ... Its meaning was as clear to Wagner as it is to us."based class ally Wagner
>>129561694Wieland already was moving in the direction the Boulez Ring when he died. That's why the Ring done in the early 70s, under Wolfgang, has a weird Japanese aesthetic.>>129561976Wieland was interested in Brecht:
>>129562011Forgot quote:>The Ring […] was not what the whole world usually took it to be – a Germanic heroic epic based on the philosophy of Schopenhauer […] for me it is, firstly, a revival of Greek tragedy; secondly a return to mythical sources; and thirdly moralistic drama in the manner both of Schiller and Brecht.- Wieland Wagner
>>129561976>You don't think it's had the opposite effect?You honestly think anyone with self respect is interested in this trash?
>>129562031>Frank Castorf’s staging of the Ring cycle premiered in 2013; this is from the 2016 performances at Bayreuth. The contemporary setting equates oil to gold, hence the Vorabend is set at a gas station on Route 66; Die Walküre is set in Azerbaijan, as Baku was seized by the Bolsheviks in 1929 for its oil and later was a tempting target for the Nazis. Siegfried finds itself at both Mount Rushmore and Berlin’s Alexanderplatz, while finally Götterdämmerung is somewhere in the GDR, before closing at the New York Stock Exchange....>So much, so sleazy. It all fits, of course, the greed of the Gods and Alberich could hardly find a more apt setting. Wotan is something of a gang leader; this could as easily be a spin-off of The Sopranos with the greatest soundtrack ever (sometimes it veers towards Goodfellas), or with its cowboy hats (Donner) it might be a particularly malicious series of Dallas that occurred in a parallel reality. And Dallas did have oil rights at its centre, Garish hardly covers this production, and yet it transfixes. The gold glows from below the swimming pool; there appear to be slivers of cheap gold leaf (or even imitation gold leaf from Poundland) floating in the water; a swooping ledge in the pool perhaps suggests the winding trajectory of the river.hehe sounds fun
>>129561551>Stereo:BeinumKlempererStokowskiMarkevitch>Monode SabataFurtwangler (1948)ParayBusch
>>129562135>Stokowskibut it's a total mess.
>>129562148We've had this conversation before.
>>129562148if you hate fun, maybe
>>129562152maybe but i'm obliged to point out that the Stokowski Brahms 4 really is one of the all time worst recordings.>>129562171Markevitch has as much energy and doesn't destroy the inner voices. what's fun about Brahms without inner voices?
now playingstart of Brahms: Symphony No. 3 in F Major, Op. 90https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxIM7A_1zDU&list=OLAK5uy_lMZ1cG2qlzrn24T5rbtH9W7TcHnFtQFiM&index=2start of Brahms: Symphony No. 4 in E Minor, Op. 98https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YivYXxThwB4&list=OLAK5uy_lMZ1cG2qlzrn24T5rbtH9W7TcHnFtQFiM&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lMZ1cG2qlzrn24T5rbtH9W7TcHnFtQFiMReleased in 2022.
>>129561128He's pointing at us....
>>129562183I prefer the live one anyways which doesn't suffer from the weird folded quad sound.
Just to be clear, when you guys say modern Wagner singing sucks, what's the rough cutoff? Where do Barenboim's recordings fall? Because this sounds glorious to me,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYnCnst-HT0&list=OLAK5uy_kIbCEJUdJI8HWEwfoBT1ufkkUU27CnnYs&index=19
>>129562371This is fine. There were still good singers floating around until the late 90s or so, even if those performances tended to creep more into inconsistency. Barenboim's Wagner does tend to have more good singing than not, especially compared to today. Although I wouldn't say that there is a uniform excellence across all his cast members unlike what we would get in the 30s-60s.
>>129562402Thanks for the answer. So pretty much anything recorded in the internet age/since the advent of 4chan.I should warn you, the next Lohengrin I'm gonna try is B*chkov's, which came out in 2009, so don't be surprised if in a few days we're arguing about it as I try to say I like it and you say it actually sucks.samplehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbo_2lFqyB0&list=OLAK5uy_liobAcD3F_jMdBjRN6rWZ7Yuxygbt9Ftw&index=17https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnYW79d5ecw&list=OLAK5uy_liobAcD3F_jMdBjRN6rWZ7Yuxygbt9Ftw&index=25
Rachmaninoffhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzvkj1PHBAc
Kleiber's Beethoven 5th is THE Beethoven 5th and no amount of impotent contrarian screeching will change that.
>>129562551It's good but it's certainly not "one recording to rule them all"-good, and especially from someone who doesn't even have a full cycle, its reputation is a bit baffling.
here comes the bride, here comes the bride...
>>129562551Chailly
>>129562371the 2000s
>>129562689Levine's Ring is no good?
If I lived in Iran, I'd be putting on a performance of Shostakovich's 7th Symphony, 'Leningrad' right now
>>129562707it's pretty good actually, other than him being too slow sometimes. But it's one hell of an exception
>>129562732>other than him being too slow sometimesHe's always too slow.
>>129562732>>129562763He's one of my favorite opera conductors :3Maybe even more than Sinopoli and Barenboim!
>>129562763Looking at the total runtime is not a good way to judge how slow a performance feels
>>129562785To an extent, yes. But in Levine's case he's +1 hour on already slow performances. Also it's not really like he utilizes a girthy amount of rubato anyways.
>>129562551You are talking about Erich Kleiber here, right?
I don't listen to Levine because he's so ugly.
For tonight's opera performance, we listen to Verdi's Rigoletto conducted by Sir Georg Soltihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1gMSUv_MhM&list=OLAK5uy_m7USjvPoPAdJrBxq_lIHaY4GdF6UlY9p8&index=11
>>129562809Not the boylover, sexual assault allegations?
>432 Hz
>>129562551Hot, steaming garbage.>>129562802Maybe, if he had any taste.
brahms
Is there such a thing as a wagnerian oratorio? I mean specifically something which utilizes Wagner's idea of continuously flowing music that isn't broken up into numbers?
>>129565091Gerontius and Elgar's other oratorios. It was appreciated in Germany before Elgar achieved British fame after a performance in Düsseldorf due to its Wagnerian influence.
>>129565091Am I dumb or is that not most oratorios? Maybe I don't understand what you're asking.
>>129565222Classic oratorios like those of Handel and Mendelssohn are broken into airs and choruses and recitatives like operas are.>>129565091Actually that reminds me that another to check out pre-Wagner is Louis Spohr's Die letzten Dinge. It's not Wagnerian of course but it has continuously flowing music and leitmotifs too. Very clearly an influence.
For this morning's opera performance, we listen to Puccini's La Boheme conducted by Sir Georg Soltihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUxTeDfNlcM&list=OLAK5uy_nIUHGITGdpil9zPKQ1KdnJciSd1k9w_dM&index=10I almost started listening to Keilberth's 1955 Ring but I figured I ought to take a break from Wagner for today.
>>129565243>Classic oratorios like those of Handel and Mendelssohn are broken into airs and choruses and recitatives like operas are.I get that, plus Haydn's and Bach's. But then every other oratorio past the classical age doesn't is what I mean lol.
>>129565281The vast majority of oratorios before ~1850 or so, including the most prominent in the standard repertory, isn't most oratorios.
now playingstart of Bruckner: Symphony No. 4, "Romantic" (Original 1874 Version)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmqXba0pN5A&list=OLAK5uy_mjGCXBAXFxczhWACouV4p5tRd5DbhdJVU&index=1https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mjGCXBAXFxczhWACouV4p5tRd5DbhdJVU
>>129565307I meant every oratorio past that point fits the desired criteria.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q2JK1hx85A&list=OLAK5uy_mOsE8eKAPw7rkNfmNWltUb8sO5TH-Dm0g&index=1This one is stellar.
>>129565380>female conductor
>>129565411yep. she has a mighty fine Bruckner 2.
I'll never understand how my brain works regarding these phases and binges. Right now I'm primarily into opera, and if I tried listening to even an eight minute piano piece, I'd struggle to get through it without feeling that physical sensation of pressure in my brain telling me to change to something else, yet I can put on a 2-4 hour opera and listen through it no problem. So bizarre. And then one day out of the blue it'll rotate its fixation again and I'll be listening to hours of piano music no problem while being unable to make it through a single opera scene without dying to turn it off.
>>129565393I like Schumann's Faust and Das Paradies und die Peri, but they're not really representative of popular 19th century oratorios from Mendelssohn, Spohr, and Hiller, nor fully Wagnerian in the way the question implies.
>>129565483Then I must not understand what you/they are looking for. Here's two more oratorios,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNrmRreEffs&list=OLAK5uy_lEPD-PuqxvRx918FSxFgwML9KLLRTEUtU&index=1and the amazing Vaughan Williams 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieWsBIuRwOg&list=OLAK5uy_lD3dg5QLqq_jtxB9iwsrXNr5doGdEIu6I&index=1
>>129565091Liszt's Christus
>>129565497A Wagnerian oratorio utilising Wagnerian ideas by definition isn't going to exist pre-Wagner. Schumann's Romanticism with its emphasis on continuous fantasy is a convergent resemblance rather than directly influenced. Some other 'new music' like Berlioz's L'enfance du Christ is doing something different from Wagner. Even once Wagnerian ideas reach public consciousness, which isn't really until past the midpoint of the century, you can trace the diffusion of influence in e.g. Sullivan's Golden Legend, which is still kind of 'half and half', incorporating continuous music but also discrete choruses and arias/duets that one could easily extract (Parry's Job with its long soloist part is also interesting here re: influence on Elgar). Point is, most oratorios are not 'Wagnerian' in the full sense of that word.
>>129565509More like Anus LMFAOOO
Was Shostakovich just aura farming his entire career?
You guys always talk about Wagner so I think im finally ready to check him out, can you recommend some stuff that isn't opera
>>129566610Lol
>>129566610No.
>>129566610Overtures and preludes
>>129566610https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39KqWiKStoM&list=OLAK5uy_lBJVlMsY487gD6IHWtI1JncCxjFOWiFSU&index=1and this Overtures and Preludes sethttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtGfwdIb11Y&list=OLAK5uy_lBjfGRzkp2Shl_x8R38xCfzjXAgnl9N90&index=1what's fun is tons and tons of conductors have their own recordings of many of the overtures and preludes, so many interpretations to explore if you like them; the linked set is the best one to start with though, followed by the Solti "Orchestral Favorites" set -- ah might as well link that toohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GhGuEW4k5w&list=OLAK5uy_ma9fa1xAhUcd22YSPuyfRclvFJTKeRsJo&index=4Enjoy!
>>129566610Check out his music dramas
ngl I'm starting to get tired of Leontyne Price's singing. yeah it's good and distinctive but it's the "cottonballs in her mouth" voice is starting to become distracting
I can't listen to Rubinstein or Horowitz anymore. Who should I replace them with?
>>129567117Ashkenazi and Arrau
>>129567117For which pieces/composers... but in general, Richter and Gilels. Check out this channel, they have a fantastic older selection with a slight focus on Russian performers (ie lots of Gilels and Richter and Oistrakh, so search whatever composer or piece or form in the search bar)https://www.youtube.com/@incontrariomotuhere's a Gilels recitalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTo3vMAULbwhere's some Richter playing Beethovenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsgpxbBdBdgan Oistrakh + Richter duo recitalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRn_8BtYjT8and just for fun, a Michelangeli recitalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYva8lx1ypk>>129567164good shouts too
>>129567164>>129567168Horrible. Awful.
guy-LEL
Verdihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1jsCVmIMG8&list=OLAK5uy_kSNgMXmGtLfAmDkbgODH_DjePk-drwiYY&index=17
>>129567444this was one of the first operas I knew by name because I read it in A Series of Unfortunate Events
>>129567164Perfect >>129567168Right Richter will do too.
did you guys peep the new Lugansky Schumann recording yethttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t01QAuvI_eo&list=OLAK5uy_l55fLllk7jLHYFUc6gCxnpDJijs3XoK84&index=1
>>129567470It's quite good! Do you remember the context? Were they listening to it, or attend a performance, or just bring it up in conversation?
I never rushed myself to know every Mahler symphony but probably listened to all of them once. It feels like I'm listening to the 7th for the first time and that first movement is amazing.
new>>129568111>>129568111>>129568111
