Rheinberger editionhttps://youtu.be/bX9_HvNXA58This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>129781680
>>129799268Never heard of Rheinberger before. He got any symphonies?
>>129799286He did do one at least I believe, and a piano concerto, but he's principally known for his organ and choral works. Worth a listen if you like Mendelssohn.
>>129799307cool, I'll do some searching. I see he has these violin-organ duo pieces, now that's something newhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV0SE-p39rA&list=PLqtJvoPt0GCqiYe7kTMhck88ZShqSF-Ky
>>129799333Yes, he did a bunch of chamber music with organ, interesting ensembles. A couple of organ concertos too. I think his most famous piece is the motet Abendlied. Perhaps a specialist composer but I find him very easy to get on with.
>Writes one of the greatest religious works ever>Still gets sentenced to burn in hell for eternity because he's a gay glutton Sucks to be him
>>129798621Whenever most people mention Janowski's set, they're talking about the earlier RCA/Eurodisc one from the early 80s. That set has the downsides of Adam/Kollo/Altmeyer, but all three are considerably better singers than their respective counterparts on the modern set, and are, on the whole, relatively fine and experienced Wagnerian principal singers. For Wagner's Ring specifically, it's *always* a question of which 'gotcha' you tolerate. For myself personally, even though I understand that Adam/Kollo/Altmeyer are not on the level of, say, London/Windgassen/Nilsson, they're still "good enough" and not really annoying to my ears as opposed to, say, Solti fucking up the conducting here-and-there. But on the other hand there are people that really hate Adam's aged vibrato in that cycle, or find Kollo's tone weird, or think Altmeyer is too light (kinda like Karajan's Crespin). As I said, it's all about what you tolerate.A good example of Janowski vs Solti is always the Funeral March in Gotterdammerung. Janowski actually has one of the best ones on disc, but most conductors do it better than Solti. https://youtu.be/OvAS-Oee93E?list=RDOvAS-Oee93E&t=165There is always a danger of sounding too triumphant in this part. The point is that the Sword and Siegfried motifs keep trying to rise up triumphantly, but inevitably get stomped out by the Death motif. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjkT2JYucZQ&list=RDLjkT2JYucZQ&t=169sSolti's is exciting, visceral, but it doesn't really manage that. The conception is off. It gets worse as it goes on, the Siegfried and Sword motifs are so much more loud and drawn out, the Death motif doesn't have any sting to it, so to speak. And, in general, the balances in the Janowski version are just better. Just compare the famous Ride of the Valkyries and hear how much additional instruments you can make out that is otherwise buried in brass on Solti's recording.
>>129799687Also, even when you'd EXPECT Solti's tendency to blare the brass to come in handy, like in the Wanderer Prelude where Wagner specifically asks for a crescendo from p -> f, Solti falters as well. It's like, come on man, at least be consistent with your loudness. His forte is just flaccid here, absolutely no crescendo at all.>Soltihttps://litter.catbox.moe/mt956khi2cfz9yge.mp3>Bohm (the best one)https://litter.catbox.moe/zo6rcm20nh5or38h.mp3To be somewhat fair, many conductors falter in this Prelude, but it just seems like something Solti would nail, so it's always been extra disappointing to me. That's kind of his paradox as a conductor overall, though; he had a reputation for being the brash, loud, out of control maniac when it came to the orchestra, but, in reality, he only got that reputation for doing so at the most inopportune times; many of his recordings are plagued by climaxes/loudness where you'd least expect it, and a limpness where you'd actually want him to be loud.
>>129799687Thanks for the input. Apologies for not being clearer, but by 'set' I meant their entire recordings of Wagner's (major) operas, and how all three conductors have modern stereo recordings of each. So not just their Ring cycle.
>>129799479The Lord works in mysterious ways
>>129799687>>129799733Basically, in reference to my earlier post, if one were to just go, "I'm gonna go with Solti/Barenboim/Janowski for all of my Wagner and call it," which would be the best choice, since apparently Solti isn't as top-tier as I had thought.
>>129799733I guess if you're really itching to just have a single conductor for all of the major Wagnerian operas, then I would go for Barenboim over Solti, yes. Janowski's modern set of the major operas has a fantastic orchestral contribution, but modern Wagnerian singing is just not there anymore. Barenboim's singers are highly variable, but almost all of them are preferable to the ones we have nowadays.
Franck's Violin Sonata has the power to save the worldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO-sq22HVCg
>>129799770Everyone needs more Franck in their lives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS_e2NfTLlk
>>129799760>I guess if you're really itching to just have a single conductor for all of the major Wagnerian operasEach of the three do seem to have a consistent voice and vision in their performances. Which isn't to say one can't have individual favorites from each, but I do think having a strong preference overall for one conductor's set over another's is probably the most common occurrence.
Liszthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQrPEKrECOM
best Bach organ works cycle?
>>129800990I don't know about the "best" but Walcha's cycle is pretty good.
If I had been a conductor in a past life, surely I would have been Giuseppe Sinopolihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnePcliodSo
La donna è mobileQual piuma al vento,Muta d’accentoEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee di pensieeeeer!
All WTCs except Feinberg's are garbage and/or mid.
>>129802132That's it. Give me a minute.
>>129800990I like Simon Preston but for the german organ mass I'd go with Haig Mardirosian (which doesn't have the 4 duets for some reason so for those I like Hans-Ola Ericson)The Art of Fugue doesn't have a single performer that satisfies me throghout on the organ, I have to pick performer piece-by-piece with that one.
I just woke up from an dream. It was of the HMS Pinafore and extremely vivid and included we sailed the ocean blue and so do his sisters and his cousins and his aunts. But all the sailors and officers were black. I myself was not even in the dream, my pov came to the ship while they were singing,from above like a bird landing but kept moving about like a camera
>>129802132>>129802186the great WTCs chartam I a hypocrite for including Tureck (DG) and omitting Fischer and Feinberg? probably. my chart, my rules, simple as(for some reason Nikoleyav's pic from discogs kept getting cutoff so had to download it and upload it manually, weird)
feels like a Meistersinger -> Gotterdammerung -> Tristan und Isolde dayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHIXnwRkT4U&list=OLAK5uy_k-dZ5kc57ZQyg1ONC6kkYHvVM7-6Hepc8&index=3
>>129802247is Gilbert & Sullivan /classical/?
>>129802313Terrible.
>>129802356there's twenty picks! you must like some of them. don't tell me you're a>tries one WTC set>"this one is the best and all others are irrelevant"anon
>>129802346Operettas are generally considered such. Is Die Fledermaus?
>>129802361No, they all just happen to be bad.
>>129802401sigh, why are 4channers so uncharitable? also the 20 run the gamut of interpretive approaches, I think it'd be impossible someone to not at least like a handful of them
>>129802379>Is Die Fledermaus?wouldn't know, I turned it off within minutes of the one time I tried listening to it
Mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaqEzoijrR0&list=OLAK5uy_nxoxNVXuU1gBNFtn1EARBJ35Hg5KuV4Pc&index=2
>>129802422Well you don't speak German but you can watch it with subtitles. I doubt anyone can actually dislike Strauss's music if they like classicalhttps://youtu.be/lAcedJD4Law
>>129802416I don't think you genuinely pay attention to what you're listening to.
>>129802449I'll check that out next time I'm in the mood. and I do like his waltzes performed by Karajan. this CD containing a collection of Karajan's J-Strauss performances is seven and a half hours long!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWeY_sTnB2Y&list=OLAK5uy_nvMYogNwwW3zpp7saQRVFmdlFzDuMXMi4&index=20
>>129802462Yeah my dad got this collection for my birthday as a kid. Vienna was his favorite city in the whole world and he considered it thr center of civilization
>>129802461Anon, I told you that in strict confidence!And I do. I just happen to really, really love Bach's WTC, and like I've said a million times, one of its virtues (as with most of Bach's music), is it allows for a wide range of interpretive possibilities, so to limit oneself to only one or two sets only serves to deprive oneself of many of the other wonderful shades and tones of Bach's WTC brought to life by some of the many top-tier pianists who've dedicated time and effort to master it and thought and creativity to do something new with it.Liking only one WTC set would be like only liking one symphony.
>>129802494That's a wonderful tidbit. If I ever have a child, I'll do the same for them.
>listens to one set of bach's cello suites>"wow yo-yo ma is the greatest cellist of all-time!!">listens to one set of bach's goldberg variations/wtc>"wow glenn gould is the greatest pianist of all-time!!">listens to one performance of beethoven's 9th>"wow furtwangler is the greatest conductor of all-time!!">listens to one performance of strauss' four last songs>"wow schwarzkopf is the greatest singer of all-time!">listens to one performance of bach's chaconne>"wow grumiaux is the greatest violinist of all-time!!"
>>129802553Someone can have the best recordings without being the best of all-time or even the best alive
On that note, what are /classical/'s favorite recordings of Strauss' sublime Four Last Songs? I've only listened to a few recordings of it, which is a crime, I need to up my numbers.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMlVHr3_h78&list=OLAK5uy_mPenFKOvJIlcZGm8l1DMg-gUmJdA78G24&index=1We love Jessye Norman here? I would have thought either the Szell/Schwarzkopf or the Karajan/Janowitz recordings would be by far the most popular for this piece, yet searching on Amazon, the Norman/Masur actually appears to dwarf all others in terms of popularity and acclaim (you can usually tell by ratings count for a cursory metric, and then reading the reviews if you really want to get into it).
>>129802498>it allows for a wide range of interpretive possibilitiesTrue, some are shitty, some are professional and good.I'm not depraving myself of anything worthwhile. This garbage:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUQnLb7AhVkOffers nothing that Feinberg doesn't, instead it corrupts the piece with awful staccato, voicing and directionless performance. But again, you don't pay attention to those things, amateur pianists will impress you.
>>129802577Hey, you don't like Hewitt's, that's fine, many other options to choose from. Maybe you'd preferWoodwardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcd-Y_WBBDk&list=OLAK5uy_lKr-TUmp_U035LIV5TCkrDSrzHTMfXePg&index=5Aldwellhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzVOSWGgGc&list=OLAK5uy_kYANdgE0uovXwvr8F9_K8EHo4LXO1mCx4&index=5or maybe... Tureck, the "high priestess of Bach"?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWDj04EIy8s&list=OLAK5uy_nHtFdzWlFTJK2Q_IB_kTgFdQidSZqqk04&index=5
>>129802577>>129802594But fine, I will give the Feinberg (and Edwin Fischer) set another try. You don't have to fling insults every time I don't agree with you, anon. I admit I have the peculiar trait (and possible flaw) of shifting tastes and moods (where one weekend I love one interpretive approach and the next another), as well as of being rather loose on my criteria for a quality performance, and not knowing anything about the act of playing music itself so I don't recognize techniques or formal aspects, and this often leads me to having a high quantity of favorite recordings for any given masterpiece, but none of this means I don't care about or pay attention to the music.
>>129800990Whats a cycle? Whatever Passagalia is in
>>129802313based for Gulda
>>129802416he's just a jaded/depressed retard
>>129802313feels like you just chose these at random also why not Richter's better recording
What is your favorite work that uses the melodies from Mozart's operas as a base? Things like Beethoven's variations on papagenos aria from zauberflote
>>129802966whats with the anime avatar
>>129802981She is mozart
>>129802981he's an autist with a hyper-obssession with a fictional character
>>129802966I've never even heard of any.
>>129802626>You don't have to fling insults every time I don't agree with you, anon.You don't have to take insults seriously. But fine, I'm guily of being too vulgar.>as well as of being rather loose on my criteria for a quality performanceWell then, you can always try to learn. Try listening to Feinberg with a close attention for staters.
>>129799268>Rheinberger
>>129803356kek
>>129802950>feels like you just chose these at randomI've listened to each multiple times and have them on my regular rotation. There's no interpretive consistency because my own preference depends on my tastes which shifts with my mood and the time. Sometimes I want the ponderous heavy-handedness of Barenboim, sometimes I want the tranquil spirituality of Poblocka and Koroliov and Aimard and Crossland (or the ponderous spirituality of Woodward and Richter and Tureck!), sometimes I want the delicate sentimentality of Crochet and Nikoleyeva, sometimes I want the limpid tautness of Schiff, sometimes I want the warm nimbleness of Xiao Zhu-Mei and Aldwell, sometimes I want the beautiful song and dance of Hewitt, sometimes I want the formal playfulness of Gould, and sometimes I want the diverse joyfulness of Gulda and Pilsun. Nothing random about it, I just think they each have their own reasons for being great.
>>129802576https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y63k4LfMem0
>>129802966https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9onAZ_AEYc
>>129800990I like Walcha and Marie-Claire Alain's third.
>>129800990Weinberger
>>129800990Andre IsoirPeter HurfordMichel Chapuis
Why is Bruckner 6 so under-appreciated?
>>129805138I assume because it's probably the black sheep stylistically among his mature symphonies. Bruckner himself said 'Die Sechste ist die keckste'.
>>129805138First movement is one of my favorites of his and is the one Bruckner movement that seemingly every normie friend likes on the first listen. That its not more popular is bizarre to mee.
Die Erste ist die schwerste.Die Zweite ist die freiste.Die Dritte ist die umstritt'ne.Die Vierte ist die geschmierte.Die Fünfte ist die vernünft'ge.Die Sechste ist die keckste.Die Siebte ist die geliebte.Die Achte ist die flachste.Die Neunte ist die verträumte.
>Orlando Bloom was named after Orlando Gibbons and was raised heavily on the music of the Virginals. Didn't know that.
Strausshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFRTd0qraq8&list=OLAK5uy_mqGbHtGwTcHRC7L01n9nZYVJDYI3EdCcY&index=1
Oscar-Arthur Honeggerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu7NskuYF7Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2WmIoUeX1chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa5nMSrME-4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PjvRC6OGbohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAl6ZnIDwKEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqSFBwBC0S0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73erL8o_9whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4FmuobrUs4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AR8Y8bWFSwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKLcpEF29nQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbTdcWUTV4Ihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prxyp8EHITohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrDpP0Z2ojEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeqhKYRV7ughttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rocZ_0CayFohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcHHFH1AN_0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qFqUUQx2Lshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ddnp-GHn6Mhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJm2AEcbzIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vnhPVyMb38https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDy3brfTcIshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQw_xezqK_shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUGLqJEfJAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpT_I8tjxbQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTd_1GKeQg8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYCB3PdLakhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wjT1ycujT4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx8FX5ZtnNMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iphzdVU9kEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLlg0r2wXuIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZRBxy6onXM
lonely bump
>>129802966>>129805138kill yourself nonce>>129803053and also a nonce
don't bully mahoposter
>>129806616don't enable degenerates
>>129806628anime website :^)
>>129806637a) its initial raison d'être need not inform its current oneb) if it's anime you want you can always go to >>>/a/c) The link between anime and degeneracy is disngenuous at best and a strawman for projecting pedos to point at to get eyes off of themselves, you know, like they do with drag queensanyway, avatarfags have always been and will always be cringe
The transition from the cadenza to the soloist playing an accompanying figure in the first movement of Mendelssohn's violin concerto sounds so natural and effortless... it's such a marvel to listen to every time...
>>129806663
>>129806685beg
>>129806663mahoposter's avatarfagging is much more forgivable than your shitty off-topic bit
>>129806700It was a legitimate reply to this >>129806637 dumbass post, but yeah, I don't want to go any further off-topic
>>129806637>>129806685>>129806700>simping after avatarfagskill yourselves
>>129806482what jean luc godard film is that pic from
>>129806823Betaville
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqi1Wb96DBs
Hector they're insulting Thorns in /metal/J.C. Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPb-SVIIxB4
>>129806637what does that have to do with posting shitty children's anime?
>>129806718>>129806742>>129808247 gb2reddit
>>129808266cry harder child rapist
>>129807984The goat playing the goat
>>129808266does reddit have better taste in anime?
>>129808231>metalNot sure what this has to do with /classical/. Maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
The nocturnes by Chopin, Fauré, and Field have have been faithful companions to me in these trying times. Where do I go from here for more achingly beautiful solo piano music?
>>129808730Ferencz Ritter Von Liszt - Harmonies Poétiques Et Religieuses/Années De PèlerinageJakob Ludwig Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy - Liede Ohne WorteCharles-Valentin Alkan - Recueils De ChantsEdvard Hagerup Grieg - Lyriske StykkerAchille Claude Debussy - Préludes I & II (too obvious?)Alexander Nikolayevich Scriabin - all the Poèmes
>>129808730Unfortunately nothing comes remotely close.
>>129808779>LiedeLieder*, godsfuck>>129808780(not true, by the way)
It's timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygaEyAOPyA0&list=OLAK5uy_k679Ff7jhnmmFOqNVaruYjXh0yG4LJPIg&index=1
>>129808730Brahms' late piano pieces of coursehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyKFKY00NrIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSf2veLfC-whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4nnjhHe15Uhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaQdK1iY26Yand these balladeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CjDhmcpJCYoh the rhapsodies are nice toohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMveEoRmkJE
best Bach complete keyboard works set?
>>129809018>completeHewittI believe it doesn't include her Art of Fugue, and I think it uses her first Goldberg Variations recording which, while excellent, I personally prefer her second newer one, so those you might have to check out and download/listen on your own.
>>129809041>Canadianno thanks
>>129809050it's not Gould
>>129809056yeah good point, anything is better than Gould
Best harpsichord bach recordings?
how is this "András Schiff" character's Bach piano cycle? i don't know anything about him, but based on how he looks, i get the gut feeling to distrust him completely
>>129809064Gould had to carry the burden of being such a terrible interpreter so that the rest of the country could earn having Hewitt as their compatriot
>>129809078Zuzana Ruzickova
>>129809081>i don't know anything about himthat's quite a feat ngl
>>129809081>based on how he looksTerrible take; go listen to Yuya Wang or however that shit's spelled.
>>129809081decent WTCs. I prefer his first one.
what should i listen to?
>>129809094based, also recommendingbher
>>129809129some of this >>129806482I'm currently rocking out tohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qFqUUQx2Ls
>>129809081He's very love-it-or-hate-it. Either you'll think he's the only one doing Bach right and it's brilliant or he's unbearably dull and plain.Worth a try.
best Bach Fortepiano recordings?
>>129809081It's Schitt. He's essentially a living MIDI, dry as dust and no personality.
>>129809157>living MIDIperfect for Bach then. what's wrong, anon, can't you enjoy music in its most pure, abstract form?
>>129809161someone's still mad
>>129809161>can't you enjoy music in its most pure, abstract form?it's better to just read the score at that point
>>129809157exactly how classical pianists should be
>>129809167we're all mad here>>129809171>it's better to just read the scorecorrect
>>129809179if you're retarded, yeah
>>129809179baroque
>>129809094>>129809133Thanks any particular recording rec?
>plebs still need to rely on recordings to actually hear their favorite music>They can't just look at the score and hear it flawlessly in their mind
>>129809222Few people posting here can actually read a sheet music. I bet the link spamming orchestra guy can't
>>129809222I bet you imagine the music as sounding like the instruments indicated in the score instead of hearing it as pure sinewaves, you fucking pleb, you fucking pointless pseud
>>129809129bruckner 8, Paavo Jarvi, Tonnhalle orchestra
>>129809161based>>129809181BASED
>>129809298but after >>129809140
Kek look at /shreddit/'s latest posts, these monkeys are figuring out what a counterpoint is
>>129809348No they're not, I have to do their homework for them. And that includes you, apparently. I wish you'd share in my decency and not mention that place.
>>129799268Would someone please recommend me some piano concertos? I need something to listen to as I read poetry!
>>129809549Number 8
>>129809549You don't just put classical music in the background, so no.
>>129808953This is an interesting performance. It's not solemn, slow, and reverential like the usual Parsifal. It's much faster, tuneful, with a constant forward momentum. Recommended for those who usually find Parsifal boring.
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RuVyTY5sl4
>>129810800>1912Debussy's second book of Preludes were composed in the same year. It's also the year Mahler's 9th premiered!
>>129810813Back when art still mattered. Paderewski owns 17/4, it has no equal. And the piece is such an earworm.
>>129809018Gould obviously
>>129811142bait used to be believable
How do I get my dad to listen to composers besides Mozart? Any recs?
>ex-gf says it's okay I have classical playing on speakers all day>when we broke up, one of the reasons she listed for ending it is she got tired of hearing classical music blaring all day longfug
>>129811271When in the car with him, put a different composer on and force him to listen to it.
>>129811271Just put on Haydn and tell him it's Mozart.
What do you guys define as good orchestration?
>>129811413Mahler.
>>129811413Bad orchestration is when it sounds muddled and disharmonic. So, good orchestration would just be the opposite of that.
>>129809348I sincerely doubt that. those cretins would first have to develop an understanding of melody and harmony.
>>129811479>Bad orchestration is when it sounds muddled and disharmonicbut enough about Schumann.
you HAVE listened to Chailly's cycle of Mahler's revisions/re-orchestration of Schumann's symphonies, right, anon??https://files.catbox.moe/ifu619.flacThe Alsop/Vienna Radio cycle is pretty good too. I'm pretty sure there's a Mahler quote I've even posted here before about how he considers this one of the most important things he ever did, and hopes it becomes one of the largest parts of his legacy, but I can't seem to find it.
>>129811413Henry cowell
>>129811276She doesn't deserve you anon
Wagner broke my mind. I will never be the same person again.
>>129811725that's what you get for breaking the first rule.
Is it just me or did Mozart fall off in his later years with the exception of like requiem and a couple other things, but even requiem is overrated. He peaked around 25
>>129811854kill yourself.
>>129811861Not an argument, low IQ detected
Mozart peaked with Don Giovanni and Die Zauberflöte.
>>129799687>>129799726Revisiting Solti's cycle right now and I must say, I actually quite like the fact the orchestra is so loud and domineering. Of the ones you named, I think currently I'd goBohm > Solti > Barenboim > JanowskiEven though Solti doesn't handle many parts musically as well as Janowski, the overall lush and powerful aesthetic better suits my own personal preferences. There's a lot of Rings like Janowski where I'm constantly wondering if I simply don't have the volume turned up loud enough lol. With Solti I don't have that issue. The orchestra is unquestionably an equal partner to the singing. It's almost like an opera-symphony instead of just an opera.Of course Bohm is best of all worlds comparatively though.
Ive never heard any Beethoven other than the meme symphonies and some sonatas, what should I check out by him?
>>129811875https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAgdd2VqLVc
>>129811875follow this link and just go to townhttps://www.youtube.com/@incontrariomotu/search?query=beethovenor this onehttps://www.youtube.com/@cgoroo/search?query=beethovenYou can skip the 1st, 2nd, and 4th symphonies thoactually since I'm feeling generous, for some quick links,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsaNoWHTVMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC7qA9NRBNohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31lI85hqhGYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiS-MQV6QwMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y5YTNkiCrwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAyDU_nlw7ohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoIi5xb2k1chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHa0NNAHyWIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2_4NsjOlzghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tasiu4NcDUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVo2c5xUP9Mhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICCX_f2y_0khttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PNe2LcIb6II think that's pretty good coverage. Enjoy!
For today's opera performance, we listen to Mozart's The Magic Flute conducted by Otto Klemperer overturehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2AMfuXxtIY&list=OLAK5uy_l6pIsQFKm3bVBMY0ToGwgasmZuBeD1bWw&index=2random vocal movementhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iFuvBG4dmc&list=OLAK5uy_l6pIsQFKm3bVBMY0ToGwgasmZuBeD1bWw&index=8This is a true listener's recording as the spoken dialogue movements are omitted, thank God!
am i into opera? oh heavens no. i'm into wagner and strauss.
The Brahms violin concerto isn't that good. There. I said it.
>>129811875Listen to the 3rd symphony until you realize it's the best thing you've ever heard, after that, all the rest, symphonies 7, then 5, then 6, then 9, all the sonatas with names, then late sonatas.
>>129811980Mendelssohn = Tchai > Brahms > restNot even close. It's a masterpiece.
>>129811980violin concerto rankingsbrahms > tchaikovsky > beethoven > dvorak > elgar > mendelssohn > bach > berg > prokofiev > stravinsky > sibelius > shostakovich > bartok > britten > mozart > khachaturian > bruch > barber > schumann > glazunov > saint-saens
>>129811921thanks
I can't stand horrorwitz, he is everything I hate in a pianist
*steals the /classical/ general's rheingold*
>>129812053lemme guess, because of the :^) ?
>>129812069No idea what you are talking about. His playing is way too muddy, he doesn't know when to take his foot off the pedal
>>129812081owell his playing and recordings sound good to me but to each their own I supposehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie_qvSRw8-Y
>>129812081Just like my gramps when he used to drive me to baseball practice.
>>129812087>"We have Horowitz at home">Horowitz at home
>>129812093hehe
>>129812089Based gramps, its the only way to drive
>>129812007>mendy this low againGet your hearing checked
>>129812107It's still ranked as a masterpiece on that list. But you're right, the Elgar should lose some points for its occasional meandering, whereas the Mendelssohn is taut and succinct, no note is wasted, no bar is bad, so switch those. I standby ranking the Dvorak over it though, for my own tastes at least.
>>129812060>what it looks like when people see me, a 30yo, with my 18-20yo hookup/gf in public
>>129812060Why can't the ring cycle a properly funded adaptation instead these embarrassing stage plays. Its one of the greatest stories of all time and is ripe for a feature musical film.
>>129812198Does opera translate well to film? I suppose the majority of people with power and means do not think so.
>>129812207The people with power and means think that it would not sell enough to justify the investment, which is correct.
>>129812207Tons of theatre musicals have successfully transitioned to film
>>129812230That too. Putting on a stage production is not only a fraction of the cost, you can charge more for the tickets!
>>129812243The pop-singing of musicals translates seamlessly to film. Operatic singing I'm not so sure.
>>129811875Missa solemnis
For Meistersinger, Solti/Vienna or Solti/Chicago? On one hand, Solti felt strongly enough that the first recording with Vienna was flawed to have it be the sole Wagner piece he desired to record again later in life. On the other hand, conductors and musicians aren't always the best judge of their own work. Listening to Vienna now and sounds good to me so far,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3vLE-UlySg&list=OLAK5uy_lRXzLG4-iLKIoDr5b2UUp3iVV1XXcct7c&index=3
>>129812303I remember when I first tried listening to the Missa Solemnis. It was probably the third choral work I'd heard ever, and my brain could not properly comprehend what it was hearing. Something like Bach's Mass in B minor or Mozart's Requiem, anyone who's heard any choir singing in their life will find the sound aesthetic of those works completely familiar. Beethoven's Missa Solemnis, on the other hand, with its experimental melodies and unconventional structure, sounded like something from another dimension entirely, it blew my mind. Yet, despite this foreign incongruency, this perplexing strangeness, I felt a special connection to it, and I knew it was something I'd come to love, that it was latent sublimity, so each time I'd listen to more and more until it finally clicked.
>>129810092Is he right?
>>129812303I thought avataring was against the rules
>>129812541Yes.
>>129811413No such thing.
>>129812541The answer is literally one search away
>>129812541No. All counterpoint is harmonic. Renaissance polyphony is still full of harmonic considerations, just not the chord-based functional kind that came later.
>>129811871I don't have a problem with loud and domineering. I have an issue with Solti's moronic handling of the leitmotifs.
>>129812710You're actually retarded. Harmonic counterpoint strictly refers to tonal counterpoint.
Unironically I will admit that I am constantly angry, which is probably why I can't leave this genre and why I'm here to begin with. Metal is infinitely better, but its just not... the polyrhythm isn't right, it doesn't sound like how I feel. I want beautiful melodic ideas blossoming, a motifs that piece it all together, someone humming in my ear. Medtner is like that on Night Windhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KY0IqN9ST0Most classicucks don't get it, they just get drunk and blast boring lullabies that could easily be replicated in any other genre like drone. Lofi-hip hop and classicalfans are the same shit. We don't share a bond.
>>129812849Retard, all counterpoint involves harmonic (vertical) relationships by definition. Renaissance is more linear/melody-first, but it's still dripping with intervallic/harmonic rules.
>>129812903Missed you Hec, don't ever leave the shitheaps again.Scarlatti afternoon.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSj24ge6sew
>um, actually harmony refers to any time two or more notes sound at the same time
>>129813040Yes, that's the basic definition of harmony. Any two or more notes sounding together.
>>129812710Polyphony is technically anything that has more than one voice following along the same melody.
>>129812951>>129813062It doesn't matter you stiny fuckwit. Harmonic counterpoint MEANS counterpoint in the context of functional harmony. That's what the term refers to in every pedagogical textbook.
>>129811413kill yourself
>>129812303kill yourself twice
>>129812612wrong>>129812710correct>>129812619even more correct>>129812849false and a lie>>129812951correctest>>129813213thereby making >>129810092 wrongglad I could help
>>129811854it is just you
>>129811854Just you and Glenn Gould.
>>129813639All this discussion, just because some idiot thinks that modalism isn't harmonic
>>129814652More like because someone was being redundant and then trying to cover up for their mistake instead of simply going "oh my bad"
the modes are a lie
>>129815240speak on that
>>129815249genres also are a lie
Shostakovich's first violin concerto and first cello concerto get all the glory, primarily for their formal creativity and visceral excitement, but for me it's the stunning, meditative emotional depth of the second concertos which most impress me.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwjyZoATAeQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0eF30oZPeIGranted, I will say I do have to be in the mood for them, whereas the first concertos are great 'anytime listening'. When you are in the mood, there is nothing else in the entire repertoire quite like them.
>>129813639>thereby making >>129810092 wrongIncorrect. Now kill yourself you nonce
>>129815348Not an argument.
>>129814652>>129814681No. Harmonic counterpoint IMPLIES counterpoint within the functional harmony, that's how they use the term "harmonix counterpoint". That doesn't mean modes aren't harmonies you utter fucking idiots.>Harmonic counterpointis a musical texture combining two or more independent melodic lines that function together to create coherent harmony, with a strong focus on voice leading within chord progressions. Unlike strict linear counterpoint, it emphasizes how individual melodic voices shape the underlying harmony. >In musical theory,Renaissance counterpoint is typically distinguished from harmonic counterpoint because it is modal rather than tonal. Kill yourself right now.
whats the best recording of holst planets
>>129815362But enough about yourself. You got absolutely BTFO'd here >>129815377
>>129815381
>>129815377>>129815388>is a musical texture combining two or more independent melodic lines that function together to create coherent harmony, with a strong focus on voice leading within chord progressions. Unlike strict linear counterpoint, it emphasizes how individual melodic voices shape the underlying harmony. All that to say that counterpoint is inherently harmony>Renaissance counterpoint is typically distinguished from harmonic counterpoint because it is modal rather than tonal. Being modal instead of tonal doesn't make it any less vertical, i.e. harmonic. Nice try, now kill yourself
>>129815381step 1: does the work have a recording by Karajan? -if yes, it's usually the best recording.-if no, lament, then ask on /classical/ for a recommendationHuh, it seems Karajan has two, one with the BPO and one with Vienna. I only knew about the more famous BPO one. Might listen to the Vienna recording myself tonight.BPOhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyUlvK9xEr0&list=OLAK5uy_kX72QZ9ho0WeKd5eymfXSq9eZI1vxEwz8&index=1Viennahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow3EPyVKKgE
>>129815417>usuallynot in this case, though>>129815391
>>129815413>All that to say that counterpoint is inherently harmonyNonsequitur>Being modal instead of tonal doesn't make it any less vertical, i.e. harmonicModality and tonality are two different systems, and harmonic counterpoint implies tonality, as pointed out>Renaissance counterpoint is typically distinguished from harmonic counterpointNow kill yourself. Again, I can't emphasize enough, kill yourself (kill yourself).
Holst's The Planets is one of those works often recorded and almost always well. Which means you really can't go wrong with any of the famous recordings, it just depends on how you want it performed.For the record, ClassicsToday lists as the best recordings,>Reference Recording: Dutoit (Decca), Mehta (Decca), Steinberg (DG)I've heard the Mehta and I wasn't impressed. I think that one might be a case of "it was famous and widely available for its time" though it probably just wasn't for me.>>129815431>>129815391I'll peep, thanks. I don't often listen to Boult. I don't think I've heard anything of his outside of Elgar and Vaughan Williams!
>>129815435>NonsequiturNone. What you described patently makes counterpoint a form of harmony. The post is there for anyone to read.>as pointed outBy your description of counterpoint being a form of harmony, as pointed out>Modality and tonality are two different systemsTwo different types of systems that present both melodic and harmonic aspects. We're discussing them in the context of harmony.>harmonic counterpoint implies tonalityIt really doesn't, as pointed out>Now kill yourself. Again, I can't emphasize enough, kill yourself (kill yourself).cry harder
>>129815435>>129815476and thus we reach the inevitable inflection point of arguments on /classical/, where any progress or learning can no longer be achieved, and the best outcome would be for the interlocutors to walk away now before wasting any more time on shouting insults and pedantries past each other. they rarely do, however. let's see how it goes.
>>129815476>NoneYou wish you nonce. "counterpoint is inherently harmony"= nonsequitur.>It really doesn'tIt really does, as pointed out:>Renaissance counterpoint is typically distinguished from harmonic counterpoint
>>129815506Let's put an end to it, shall we>In music theory, counterpoint is the relationship of two or more simultaneous musical lines (also called voices) that are harmonically dependent on each other, yet independent in rhythm and melodic contour.>two or more voices>harmony>counterpoint is harmonic glad I could help
>>129815506You're talking about academia Here, the arguments can continue
>>129815511>Renaissance counterpoint is typically distinguished from harmonic counterpointnon-sequitur>noncead hominem>insisting on being demonstrably wrongsuit yourself
>tfw been trying to listen to chopin's nocturnes for the past four hours but due to medication keep nodding outthis time i'll stay up, i promisehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0s0TQkUXfw&list=OLAK5uy_nsOgwA3t1EyYo_2ApwUSd2qGfVN59xhDw&index=8
>>129815530>non-sequitur>ad hominemNone of these are true. Learn your fallacies.>insisting on being demonstrably wrongThe quote demonstrates that you're wrong:>Renaissance counterpoint is typically distinguished from harmonic counterpoint
>>129815608>this quote that is baseless and that I keep repeating ad nauseam proves you're wrong! Ha! I winCounterpoint is inherently harmony
Harmony is the simultaneous sounding of two or more notesCounterpoint is the relationship of two or more simultaneous musical linesMusical lines are made of notesTwo or more musical lines, made of notes, constitute harmonyTheir relationship therefore is inherently harmonicCounterpoint therefore is a form of harmonyq.e.d.
>>129815709Seems reasonable.
>>129815709>Harmony is the simultaneous sounding of two or more notesI'm skeptical
>>129815791hi skeptical im dad
>>129815655The quote proves you wrong. Counterpoint can be harmonic, or not. Both versions involve harmony, but here harmony implies functional harmony.
>>129815839goalpost moving; counterpoint is harmony
>>129815839>this quote that is baseless and that I keep repeating ad nauseam proves you're wrong! Ha! I winCounterpoint is inherently harmony
>>129815417The K-God always delivers!
So now that the dust has settled, is Pollini's recording of Chopin's 24 Preludes, Op. 28 the best ever?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HywkLG0LJSE&list=OLAK5uy_kBovYY6XOO8WNNCrD9fmNQQJfY4hFlL9A&index=13
>>129815516>that are harmonically dependent on each otherno they're not. counterpoint is still applied when using the method of composition with twelve tones.
>>129815886Pogorelich has him beat I'm afraid.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi5vMF0Kq2k
>>129815892>counterpoint is still applied when using the method of composition with twelve tonesOf course, why wouldn't it? You can sound two or more simultaneous notes with no tonal centre>>129815709>Counterpoint therefore is a form of harmony
>>129815924That one is definitely essential too! Good for breathing new life into a work that's been recorded a thousand times by a thousand talented pianists.
ESSENTIAL CHOPIN PRELUDES OPUS TWENTY-EIGHT RECORDINGSArgerichBlechaczMoravecOhlssonPogorelichPolliniTrifonov
>>129815851You don't understand what you're saying.>>129815864>repeats the same quote The irony.Harmonic counterpoint != modal counterpoint.
>>129816008based. You should check out Tharaud and Fliter too.Tharaudhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYQpg3dpA_k&list=OLAK5uy_kzD1Fsdw7xeWhebajWL19DiYcvo4Qmhd8&index=15Fliterhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVQObHRYq5k&list=OLAK5uy_no_CyvrLENbGcjOM62x4eHmfEYpbX_L00&index=4These two + most of your list would probably be mine too, at least off the top of my head. Oh, Arrau too.
>>129816014see >>129815709
>>129815886>>129815924both awful picks
>>129815417The BPO one isn't the more famous one. The Vienna one is.
>>129816183Let me guess, you prefer Cortot?
>>129816084See >>129815377
>>129816191Really? I remember seeing the cover of the BPO recording many times on /mu/ way before I ever got into classical. And a check of ratings on Amazon shows 322 ratings on the BPO recording (with an additional 235 on a secondary generic listing!) and a modest 163 on the VPO recording.
>>129816335see >>129815709no one will think less of you for admitting you're wrong
>>129816084>>129816335>>129816376aaaaaaand stop!/argument
>>129816376See >>129815377I'm not wrong since that's how musicologists use the term "harmonic counterpoint" and you're one search away from verifying it yourself, as I already did and posted quotes.
>>129816391>your axiomatic, irreductible definitions are wrong, but the ones I've culled from opinions are right!see >>129815709
>>129816391>LALALALALALA I'M NOT WRONG I'M NOT WRONG LALALALALALyou'll go far in politics
While the blame may fall on the performances I'm listening to, I'm starting to think Meistersinger might just be a tad overlong.
>>129816466The first step is the hardest. Best of luck on your journey to recover from wagner-is-good disease
>getting into classical again>go to /mu/>cool, a general for it>nothing but the most autistic, pretentious posts imaginableBiggest mistake in ages.
>>129816510Arguments like these only happen in about one-in-every-ten threads, don't worry.
Wherefore does the enchanted forest sing its secrets to me? It tells me now that I am the king of the once and future world. The lark trills, the eagle screams, and the giggling nymphs bathe in the supernaturally blue waters of the Oracular Pool. I step forward to receive their vision, and lo! Ancient dragons, fairy castles! The yodelling bard walks a weary road, calling out for knights of faith to hear his melancholy and redeem the tragic renunciate with a sword of justice! The whole world is lost and reconquered before my very eyes.Alas, it is over too soon! This is but a foretaste of what awaits the pilgrim soul when he surrenders to the genius of Richard Wagner.https://youtu.be/iXUjuxF2oIY
>>129816532be quiet
now playingVaughan Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr3aRXpoqE8&list=OLAK5uy_n61tQPQj9eglhO1EilIoNYjtZOrSvG--M&index=2start of Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 2 "A London Symphony"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRs7XAL9s2c&list=OLAK5uy_n61tQPQj9eglhO1EilIoNYjtZOrSvG--M&index=2https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n61tQPQj9eglhO1EilIoNYjtZOrSvG--M>Sir Adrian Boult's reading with the LPO is lively and lyrical--a brisk, impressionistic view of RVW's London, delivered with all the naturalness one could ask for. If the approach is more fanciful and rhapsodic than most, particularly in the second movement, there is no shortage of weight and power in the big moments of the two outer movements. The orchestra plays the score with perfect idiomatic fluency, and the recording is open and finely detailed. A bracing account. --Ted Libbey
>>129816557At times like these I think of the Master of Music and Poetry in whose name this general was consecrated. Wagner would not have allowed his discord kittens to grow so unruly. With his integral and organic conception of the artwork he would, while paying the respect due to those composers out of whose genius was formed these pristine instruments of musical understanding, recognize these matters as beneath the dignity of the true artist for whom they are but tools of his unified expression. Come, let us embrace one another as sisters and retreat to the seraglio to repose in profound meditation upon the works of the Master.https://youtu.be/yF0pwSC7qWg
>>129816566kill yourself
>>129816574Just take a good look at this filth that is being uttered here. You can only imagine how harsh and solitary life must have been for an artist like Wagner back in his living days. Not only was he the Prometheus that brought the humans such magnificent revolutionary theater, he was also the natural force of goodness. His work brings out human positivity and empathy, it makes you go out and plant trees, build castles, donate to churches and charity, and be honest and just...this positive "vibe" that is imbibed in you from the enriched music of Wagner shows just how great the German was.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW5L5fviP4M
>>129816562now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8b51L89lwM&list=OLAK5uy_lME7WR5OdT9Lv0Fih6qv5898zUSTHAX-QI don't really like posting playlists but it beats posting a shitload of individual videos I guess
>>129816603kill yourself
>>129816605Still on the Boccherini binge I see.
>>129816612When I recall the day that I listened to Lohengrin, it sends chills down my spine. Just the prelude itself aroused my cock up to 90* perpendicular, I tore my clothes off and ran naked to the streets shouting "JUST FUCKING RAPE ME ALREADY GOD". This is what listening to Wagner for the first time did to me. Wagner was not just making ordinary music for ordinary people, he was sound-raping his listeners and fucking their brains out until they attained nirvana or musical pleasure.https://youtu.be/XdolW_A3tD0
>>129816621Oh yeah, there's plenty to listen to yet, and when approaching a composer I'm not familiar with I like to limit myself to one hour (or, in this case, one work, since it's ~75min in duration) per day
>>129816623commit prompt suicide
>>129816684Since sound wave is a naturally occurring phenomena in the universe then chances are that the alien life if there exist any, could possess an analogous organ to the human ear, imagine what would happen if we manage to make contact with the aliens in due time, just what will we show them? A bunch of naked feminists on the streets shouting "feel the nipple" or a furry rally passing through the streets of moscow or a bunch of angry bigotted chuds fighting meaningless battles online? How will we introduce them to our culture?We will show the aliens true "Human Excellence". Our mastery of art and music. We will show them "Wagner".This is it. The end. The peak. The Finale.https://youtu.be/J8UzmAgGdlU
>>129816661>and when approaching a composer I'm not familiar with I like to limit myself to one hour (or, in this case, one work, since it's ~75min in duration) per dayWhy's that?
>>129816703I like to give each work time to sink in properly, and to avoid having the music kind of overlap in my memory. If possible, also, I like to read as much literature as I can find (analyses, reviews and such) on each work before listening. That makes it really time consuming for me to listen to any more any given day
>>129816205Not my favorite but definitely better than those two.
>>129815886>>129815924>>129816008>>129816037All fucking garbage. Awful load of shit, pop music of classical and an insult to Chopin. Plebian.>>129816183Based.
>>129816759You are unproductive, crass, unwelcome, and your posts contribute in no way to the betterment of the thread or those posting in it.
>>129816754Which ones are your favorites then?
>>129816802Same goes to the posts I replied to.
>>129816848evidently not
>>129816823Moiseiwitsch, Sofronitsky, Moravec, and Arrau
>>129816875All fucking garbage. Awful load of shit, pop music of classical and an insult to Chopin. Plebian.
>>129816848>people sharing their favourite recordings of a piece is exactly the same as me shouting "lol pleb"You truly believe that, huh
>>129816875Moi is my boi. rest are mid.>>129816897>favorite recording is literal slopYep
>>129816990Moiseiwitsch is fucking garbage. Awful load of shit, pop music of classical and an insult to Chopin. Plebian.
>>129816875Props on giving an answer. NTA, I prefer the list on >>129816008
When your standards are so low, don't be so surprised when your taste is trashed on.
>tfw 24 minutes left of a 4 hour work and can't take another second but so close to the ending I don't wanna give up nowahhhhhhhhh c'mon we're so close
>>129817023that is some bottom shit anon
>>129817009You're under no obligation to be a pintless cunt regardless of how little you think of other people's taste. You made the choice to be a loud, confrontational, unhelpful arsehole yourself, and would have regardless of the circumstances. Fuck off somewhere quiet and kill yourself.
>>129817029every note is agony and all I want is mercy but I may never make it to this part in this recording ever again so I might as well listen to it for once and for all
>>129817029Oh, so you're top? Do you think you'd make it without us bottoms?
>>129817063like I said
>>129817070yeah man you just top a less toppy top
>Cortot recorded the Chopin preludes 4 (four) timesDamn. I guess recording technology made major improvements during his lifetime, but still.
>>129817151His earlier recordings are much better.
>>129817087But then you'd have to bottom in return.
>>129817151damn, he was 0 for 4
>>129817191no? I get mine and that's it
new>>129817224>>129817224>>129817224
Gay sex is a great way to end a /classical/ thread. Thank you gentlemen
>>129817237Hot.
