I hate this fucking meme that jazz is too hard for a random person and if you dont know about scales is impossible to follow. I dont deny there is some jazz like that, the thing that bothers me is the idea that EVERY jazz is like. I personally dont get some Davis or some Bill Evanz but jazz is a musical tradition that goes back to the 20s until now. To thing that every jazz song is the same thing is ludicrous. Please if you think like that listen to Trane, or Lee Morgan, or Art Blakey, or Charles Mingus, or Cannonball, or Shorter, or the goat Duke Ellignton, or monk. Without any musical background i found all of this very enojable. I fucking hate normies. I fucking hate this word jazz. I hate society. And i hate people. Why would you listen to the more complex jazz if you want to get into it? Fucking my favourite things is a masterpiece and it´s all about the feels. No complex soloing nor anything. just pure feeling and the feeling that we are tiny compared to the universe or God. fuck i love this fucking song it makes me cum everytime. And normies will not listen to it because this word. Charles Mingus was right.
It's hard for the lowest common denominator but not because they don't know music theory or scales or whatever. A lot of the best jazz musicians don't even know any music theory at all.The problem is that there's a lot going on in jazz that doesn't 'sound right' to the average person due to a lack of exposure. I could quantify these things but it would require me to use musical terms like non-diatonic, dissonant, downbeat heavy, etc. but it all comes down to how jazz does the opposite of what appears to be appealing to the uninitiated.Even stylistically, there's nothing going on that's appealing in other genres. Jazz musicians focus on playing off of each other and just being concentrated on the harmony in general. With a classical performance, there's at least the image of the conductor inciting emotion in the viewer-listener.In jazz, there's just the music, and that music sucks to most.
>>129833306gem
>>129833306>Charles Mingus was rightI listened to The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady and it was very meh. It was definitely a fun album, but deficient as art music. I think I could respect jazz more if people treated it as just having fun, because nothing I've heard lives up to its reputation as high art.
>>129833750>nothing I've heard lives up to its reputation as high art.Listen to Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch!, Andrew Hill - Black Fire, or Kenny Dorham - Live at the Cafe Bohemia complete sessions
>>129833831Skimmed through all of those, it just sounds like endless noodling that doesn't go anywhere. I prefer the Mingus, even if it's not Mahler it's at least going somewhere.
>>129833870>Skimmed through all of those, it just sounds like endless noodling that doesn't go anywhere. Sounds like you are just filtered by the genre, no offense
>>129833893Ah yes, the classic 80 IQ response. If you can't articulate why something is good, just say "filtered" and it'll surely work. Is it not noodling?
>>129833919Don’t get so upset, jazz isn’t for everyone. What you call noodling, I call exploring.
>>129833750i recommend you to listen to other Charles Mingus records. My favourite is Blues and roots. But It is just having fun. If you really want some artsy shit listen to Trane on My favourite things or on a love supreme. But i dont think something has to be trying to be pretentious to be high art. The art in jazz is in the movement. On the Sax. On the sounds. When it clicks it really clicks. To me ESP and all the Shorter dischoghraphy it has a atmosphere i couldn´t get anywhere.
>>129834402>But i dont think something has to be trying to be pretentious to be high artI don't know what this means. I think that something is only pretentious if it's trying to be high art but it's not. Which is what a lot of jazz I've heard is like. >But It is just having funI mean yeah, I'm an Iron Maiden fan. But that's nowhere close to being high art. It's just a good time.>it has a atmosphere i couldn´t get anywhere.That's true. Every genre brings something unique to the table. It's why I can't stop listening to metal. It's just so high energy.
>>129834442i meant pretensious in the broad sense of trying to consciosly trying to be art. I dont think a love supreme is bad in fact i think it is amazing. But it is different to other jazz record that without trying to be art are. That was my point.
>>129833306extremely based, best /mu/tant opinion i've heard in a long timet. enjoy most jazz from the early days of armstrong and the duke, to mingus and trane despite having never taken a music class in my life
>>129834402>Blues and rootsnot bad but it sounds like a bunch of outtakes from Ah/Um
>>129834812I feel like blues and roots is more well bluesy and has a very earthly feeling. while ah um is more experimental. both are good but i just enjoy more blues and roots.
spiritual jazz is best jazz
>>129833750listen to Alice Coltrane's Journey in Satchidananda, Pharoah Sanders' Karma, and John Coltrane's A Love Supreme. these albums are high art and also the epitome of jazz music
>>129835122I remember someone recommended me Pharoah Sanders. So I went to spotify and put on one of his most popular songs. I was shocked at how good it was. Turns out that was a collaboration with a classically trained musician who composed the good parts lol. Then I put on Pharaoh Sanders' solo stuff and it was... Not as good.
>>129833306yeah you just need the ear for it. there's memes about random notes and no rules, but it's structurally very rigid. maybe you need to the right type of tism to hear 50 versions of the same tune
>>129835182nah man he has good stuff https://youtu.be/ii63fKLTSuU?si=TAfI1WjQJ3k3CQsL
>>129835208Well that's definitely jazz music.
>>129835182can you link the song
>>129835397It was something from his collaboration with Floating Points.
>>129833750most of jazz is just having fun. very few jazz albums claim to be high art
>>129835122>>129835182Free jazz is fake and gay. John Coltrane faked his death to get out of a contract with the Rothschilds, who were funding all the bop players since the early 50s at least. Trane knew his "spiritual" gimmick was just that, a gimmick, and it felt wrong but he was contractually obliged so he slipped some cash to the county coroner and press and used his fed/military contacts to get a cover identity and probably taught jazz in some no name midwest college the rest of his life or something.Pharaoh Sanders is as fake as Sun Ra. None of them are genuine, their beliefs, acts, and compositions are scripted to make purposefully bad music to tarnish the popular image of jazz as fun dance music with a dash of virtuosity. Ironically smooth/contemporary jazz returned the genre to its roots as something listenable and popular for the average person, and what do you know its reputation is constantly bashed and tarnished by the rank and file chaos promoters.
>>129833306>I hate society. And i hate people. Why would you listen to the more complex jazz if you want to get into it? Fucking my favourite things is a masterpiece and it´s all about the feels. No complex soloing nor anything. just pure feeling and the feeling that we are tiny compared to the universe or God.It's okay to enjoy My Favorite Things, but the subtleties of the beauty of his playing will always be out of your reach. He's so much better than you think, it's insulting to say it's only about the feels, he can only express said feels because of his mastery.You'll be forever stuck listening to people who are not too overwhelming or too deep for you to follow what's going on, and it will just sound like noise. You will hear Art Tatum and Paul Bley and completely miss all of it, the entire world that each of them is.
>>129837096Pseudointellectual nonsense.
>>129837096>ugh you're beneath>you wouldn't get itAll the complex wild theory for bebop and free jazz is a post hoc coping mechanism, to salvage meaning from an increasingly meaningless sound form.>it will just sound like noiseNot all, but a lot of this junk is noise, plain noise. Even the slightly musical sounding subgenres will have noise inserted to upset and instill confusion in the listener. In the 50s and 60s that was the natural reaction until university and conservatory programs got the memo to promote the noise as a form of intellectual depth, the same way they hold up beat poetry or Pollock and Picasso, both godawful wastes of canvas. And like modern art, it functions as an avenue for money laundering too. So many careers and life positions as the chair of this organization or professor of that, funded by black money.There is as much depth in free jazz as there is in pic related. Eat shit and huff farts in hell, faggot.
>>129837096it just art man. at the end of the day it is all just about the feels.
>>129837008did you ever listen to Pharaoh Sanders? he is mostly easy listening with some exception. but how anyone can listen to harvest time and think it is pure chaos is beyond me.
>>129837008Fun schizo takes but not true, Coltrane just wanted to be a more listenable Ayler in his late years.And Sun Ra and Sanders have lots of accessible albums, dunno why you're so butthurt about them, the real free jazz guys like Taylor and Ayler had more of an european appeal and didn't care much for the american audience
>>129840068>>129840815exactly
>>129837008>Free jazz is fake and gay. John Coltrane faked his death to get out of a contract with the Rothschilds, who were funding all the bop players since the early 50s at least. Trane knew his "spiritual" gimmick was just that, a gimmick, and it felt wrong but he was contractually obliged so he slipped some cash to the county coroner and press and used his fed/military contacts to get a cover identity and probably taught jazz in some no name midwest college the rest of his life or something.saved>shittalking Sun Ralisten to this and tell me again how he wasnt greathttps://youtu.be/CTl6yNnw6l0?si=r3ytdKzwV_9TYiP3
I like this type of jazz. Playful, catchy, but also serious music. Brubeck is also good. Maybe I'm just too white for the "real" jazz.
