Tovey Editionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlzm7H8kFZsThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPreviously, on /classical/: >>130717222
Chopin = God.
>>130736356which god?
I fucking hate how this guy lifts his hands off the keys. FUCK.I'm also jelly of his large hands, but that has nothing to do with my hate.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZsJpkUHrs
>>130736575That's called the Liszt Lifzt
Mythical youtube algorithm pullhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prwvCGQ6dhs
>>130736381Chopin
>>130736575>yt penisesThere's your problem
Quick update on the Johann Baptist Joseph Maximilian Reger front: 825 files, 178 folders, ~75 hours of music and potentially growing (if I can find any complete recordings of his major lieder cycles). Officially moving onto the tagging portion of operations. Expect him. Expect me.
So now that the dust has settled, this is the greatest Bruckner 5 recording of all-time, ye?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=858JzTrwKTc&list=OLAK5uy_kEe5SxKl_SFW26PImoymkS1BSnXVfQrpQ&index=1honorable mentions: Karajan, Celibidache, Barenboim, Skrow, Wand/Berlin
>>130737585based formslop-pilled late-romantic-maxxer.
>>130737585It's gonna be a Reger Summer if not Fall and Winter for you, anon!
>tfw you sleep with a girl, you're talking in bed, you tell her you love classical music, and she says "oh, put some on, anon :)"O_Owhat do you play?
>>130737879I'm glad you asked.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6maWI85kSxU
>>130737879https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5E7ry50vs
>>130737879https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp3BlFZWJNA&list=RDDp3BlFZWJNA&start_radio=1
I say again, listen to Strauss' Die Frau ohne Schatten (opera)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP8o63w5zAo&list=OLAK5uy_k3GbVE-rGynGiVaAM9j5yIx9vau7gD5lw&index=1
>>130737879This is a bit too hypothetical for my taste
>>130738163well you are gay.
>>130738215No, not one
>>130737879Scriabin
>>130737827All of those are not to my tastes. Too much sludge. Not enough clarity. Not enough momentum. Bruckner 5 is a work that needs speed, grit, clarity of texture, a complete avoidance of homogenity in the orchestra, and above all an actual flexible pulse that can make the more static parts of the first and third movements sing.
>>130738547Respectable. This is exactly why we have conductors and option. I'm guessing you like Jochum?
>>130738564>Furtwangler/BPO 1942 (live)>Horenstein/BBCSO 1971 (live) >Zender/SWRSO 2005>Schuricht/VPO 1963 (live)>Gielen/SWRSO (1990)Both the contemporary Berlin and Concertgebouw Jochum recordings are quite good but maybe just a bit too slow for me.
>>130738589Damn I've only ever heard the Furtwangler from this. Didn't even know Gielen had any Bruckner. I'll check these out, thanks.
>conducts the greatest Wagner Ring cycle of all-time (or at least one of)>conducts virtually nothing elsewhat the FUCK was his problem
>>130737879I'd be sleeping with a man. I would play Szymanowsky sonata no.2.
The only organ music I like is the opening of Mahler 8https://files.catbox.moe/jklb24.flac
What is the solfège for 12 tone music?Asking for a friend
>>130739107Chromatic scale?
The greatest single-movement orchestral piece is what, /classical/? Siegfried Idyll? The Hebrides Overture? Metamorphosen? Tod und Verklärung? Finlandia? Pavane pour une Infante Défunte? 1812 Overture? Les Preludes? Verklärte Nacht for string orchestra?
>>130739249The Lark Ascending.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqngx6B0vm0&list=RDNqngx6B0vm0&start_radio=1&pp=ygUJQ29tcG9uaXVtoAcB&ra=m
speaking of single-movement orchestral pieces, this one has always ranked among my favorites,Elgarhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkPMm9VMGHI&list=OLAK5uy_nUtK6v6PeiuOWIL35b0KDJrXsmLR2_eQw&index=6>>130739258tru
>>130739249Hmm. Isle of the Dead, mayhaps?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88vv3IyMkhQ
>>130739249ahemhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImgqGv0TXCs&list=OLAK5uy_msPMHm5G7Xnm_AitIKlCtKCgw1ikeuRnw&index=1America wins again
>>130739299Good choice. You prefer that over Scriabin's Poem of Fire and Poem of Ecstasy?
>>130739333Yeah. I do love those two as well though. Especially Poem of Ecstasy. They're mysterious and special, but Isle touches the soul like no other, especially conducted by Rachmaninoff himself.
>>130739119Solsi
>For two years, Rachmaninoff looked for inspiration for a symphonic poem, and in November 1906, he wrote to his friend Nikita Morozov, seeking ideas for a subject for such a work, but was uninspired by his suggestions.[1] Then, in Paris in May 1907, he saw a black and white reproduction of Arnold Böcklin's painting Isle of the Dead, and, inspired by the painting, he used it as the basis for his symphonic poem, on the suggestion of his friend Nikolai Struve>Rachmaninoff was disappointed by the original painting when he later saw it, saying, "If I had seen first the original, I, probably, would have not written my Isle of the Dead. I like it in black and white."
>>130739582lolIt does sound like that looks.
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZafCBUuFII>>130737879>girleww>>130738668husband material
What was the name of Mendelssohn piece that was inspired by Fingal’s Cave?
>>130740435The Hebrides overture?
>>130739249>Pavane pour une Infante DéfunteDoes that even count? It’s only like four minutes. But that would be my favourite
>>130737879I screw mine to classical works playing in the background. Yesterday I had Stravinsky's violin concerto and Pulcinella on
>>130739249idk about greatest, but I've been listening to RK's Easter overture and VW's Flos Campi & suite for viola a lot lately
>>130739249>1812 OvertureLolz!
67 Overture
>>130739249https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ESN_t7txI
>>130737835Well, I like a lot of stuff. Might come as no surprise to learn I'm the one who's been Boccheriniposting for the past two months.>>130737836Full-on winter, my man! It's gonna be a cozy one, I hope.
There's a kind of old-world comfyness to Furtwangler's Bruckner. It feels like I'm on the way home after the Trojan War or my family and I are heading west after we just sold our Virginian farm.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_q04jRRmA&list=OLAK5uy_mtFarSangzoiflsYky41-vYb8AuAWhaII&index=13ya feel?
>>130742509What?Also where is the first movement
>>130742518Missing. Lost to history.
>>130742523Who is this "history" guy and why did they steal the first movement
>>130742538:p
speaking of Bruckner 6, what are Horst Stein's essential recordings?
>>130738627he literally died conducting, what a GOAT
>>130742509cringe larping you got there, pal
Holy shit, the Bachianas Brasileiras are perfect easy listening. Beautiful and refreshing, like a chilled tropical fruit
>>130742806Now listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbJLp0p8Jcs&list=OLAK5uy_kjuw-GbIy3Q9hmmUxRRcyTUsHkWPjNv2s
>>130742875>that album coverMarketing geniuses right here. Do we have any Bach albums featuring brooks?
>>130742681I'm not larping, I really did listen to Furtwangler's Bruckner this morning!!
I'd give up half of my lifespan to be able to play like thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T09OvyzM0Xo
>>130743119For me, it'shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVyHIP-ZZFY&list=OLAK5uy_letTXp1RZcIu6_z_3AJREDbe6Brvhr-MY&index=13
>>130743135Lol, come on. An amateur can play with that voicing, rhythm and crudeness.
>>130743119yet you're not willing to take classes and practice
>>130743239That's harder than just agreeing to a short life desu. Plus I'd never find a teacher so good to teach me Cortot's technique
Stravinskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kEvp4kFN88&list=OLAK5uy_lEmjCDlYaFqIQJwVNpzeQYVr4MvlO0QLo&index=1
>>130743293Don't need a teacher when you got the man himself telling you how to do it. Got another excuse?
Strausshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvaFgXZgMJk&list=OLAK5uy_nTD2wLfgQIWC4vLVCLdM7TqazXlY9eFf4&index=40One of the Amazon community reviews states this was Leontyne Price's last role.
>>130743239It was just rhetoric to praise the performance. Why everyone here gotta be such a literal grump?
>>130743432Many posters have a certain condition.
>>130743432Because fuck you, that's why>>130743451Yeah, terminal pissedoffitis
Taking a break from Boccherini to listen to another master of chamber music
Always difficult to choose which recording of Shostakovich's 24 Preludes and Fugues to listen to. There's so many great ones, and they're all different, which greatly changes the emotional tone and musical timbre of the work.maybe Rubackytehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZaFtiI98uk&list=OLAK5uy_mCP-fUVWJn2BlUU6bWZsHX4dSYt8r3uAY&index=29
>>130743432>why is everyone on AutisticLosers.com such an autistic loser?!
>>130743375Oh yeah, no excuses. I'm still learning, I just know I'll never be as good as him.
Which of Brahms's string quartets should I listen first?
>>130743726The second.
What is the best way to judge the length of a piece objectively? People always use the amount of bars, but an adagio will be exponentially longer than an allegro with the same amount of bars
>>130743790Objectivity is antithetical to music.
>>130743819Bro im talking about a measurable thing here
>>130743837So then what's the objective speed of an adagio?
>>130743869Dunno im asking you
>>13074386966–76 BPM
everyone one:absolutely everyone:still everyone:every single soul:literally everyone:even Mozart (still alive):random incel on 4chan: WAGNER IS LE BEST COMPOSER EVAR!!! W.[everyone disliked that]barenboim: wait that's illegalglenn gould: ok that was lowkey on pointscriabin: slaps roof of car Schloezer did i ever tell you about the time i wrote a piece to bring about the end of the world? it was an epic moment.yuja wang: *braps loudly*Schloezer: is retardedCIA: Bane?Wagner's ghost: hey don't google HP Lovecraft's cat name[OP googles hp lovecrafts cat name]CIA: congratulations you got yourself caught!Chopincel: flies past in a spaceship ooooh i dont care what universe you're from that's GOTTA HURT[everyone laughed]Dave Hurwitz: you're breathtaking!area 51 guards:i bet i can take HurwitzDave Hurwitz: you sure about thatDave Hurwitz: anally rapes and spitroasts all area 51 guards with his black boyfriendarea 51:wait thats illegalEveryone liked thatCIA: am I joke to you?Mahoposter: I am a gay pedophile who likes little girls[everyone disliked that]kraut: I'm gonna post notationsAlt right incels: there's no way classical can be good agai....Alma Deutscher: hold my beerBig chungus joined the chatDrumpf has left the chat/classical/lets: 'Yeah, I'm thinking this is kind of epic based pilled, maybe a bit of a coom moment?? Idk think I might post a link.
>>130743912I miss the Mahoposter.
>>130743957Funny, I hadn't even noticed that he's gone until you brought it up.
>>130743957>>130743969Im still here
>>130744008Go back.>>130743957Fuck you for summoning that dipshit.
>>130744057He made on-topic posts and provoked conversation with straightforward questions that generally avoided any of the falsely sophisticated affectations that you often see in classical discussion. Would much rather that than people who feel angry and embarrassed about an anime picture.
>>130744130Why are you talking about yourself in third person schizo?
>>130744445My posting style isn't even particularly close to his. You're not really making the case for yourself as a superior poster.
>>130744451>let me change my posting style, that'll show em!
>>130744490Do you think that refusing discussion in favour of these games is good posting?
>>130743726Going in order is fine.
Mahler's 6th & 7th are criminally underplayed, the latter especially. I see no objective reason why the 5th should be the go-to instrumental symphony (after the objectively accessible 1st). The adagio of the 6th is just as beautiful as the adagietto and the finale of the 7th is even more jubilant than that of the 5th.
>>130743912All.Absolutely everyone.All.All of that is true.And Mozart (who is still alive).An unknown musician on 4chan.“Wagner was the greatest composer!!!”[All denied].Naked.“Wait, isn’t that illegal?”Glenn Gold."I understand now."Scriabin. (shaking the roof of the car)"Schloss, have I told you? I'm writing music that will destroy the world. This is the moment."Wang Yujia.*tears in her eyes*Castle."Silly."The CIA."Good?"The Ghost of Wagner."Hey, whatever you did, don't leave..."[I don’t know what to do].Traditional Chinese:"Welcome."(Experiment gone wrong)"You're... sorry, sorry, sorry."[Special Link]Traditional Chinese:"Excuse me."51 Chinese:"Sorry, sorry, sorry."Traditional Chinese:"Wow?"Traditional Chinese:The 50-year-old woman is a 51-year-old woman.Location 51:“Wait, isn’t that illegal?”[Raises hand].CIA:"Are you kidding?"A killer.“I’m a homosexual pedophile who likes girls.”[They’re all downstairs].Cash.“I’m taking notes now.”Uniquely alt-right.“Classical music hasn’t changed…”The German spirit."Wait."Big Chungus started talking.Drumpf is here. /classic/ All."Hmm... I think it's more subtle, more 'woke'. Maybe you'd like it too, I don't know, but I'll post the link now."
>>130743912>>130744812Can you quit posting this cringe, low quality gibberish?
>>130745016great now you just made sure they'll keep posting it
Schiff (1984) has the best WTC 1.
maho more like my whore
>>130745016Grope about in the fryer of Being all you like, hylic
>>130745081No WTC can be classified as "good" other than Feinberg's, sorry! They're just not good enough.Busoni would've been absolutely GOATed if he recorded full WTC, but alas.
>>130744008I love you :3
The REAL 50 greatests pianists for you, kids.https://youtu.be/MbM3WCjlvbw?si=5q4o_34FNn44qTBA>The criteria I mostly chose for was a strong artistic spirit, poetic nature and being able to say a lot with a little. At this level like I said, it can be quite difficult to come to concrete conclusions, but, I would not make a mistake as poorly as rating Hofmann below Brendel.KEK. Savage.
>>130745268Not true btw
>>130745372On the opposite days, yes!
Thoughts on Liszt's Faust Symphony? For me, Mephistopheles might be a masterpiece in itself.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKjswVRxq4
>>130744797The 6th is obviously better than the 5th but I can understand why people find the 5th far more accessible, especially more than the 7th.
>>130745016/classical/ memes and jokes are ALWAYS welcome>>130743912>>130744812ty as always>>130745081Why do you think so?>>130745415Love it.
confession: I love Wagner's Meistersinger but it might be the work I most often fall asleep to before I can reach the end. It's just so long! And too lengthy a period without any woman's vocals.
Liszthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Rxj6JJ4TE&list=OLAK5uy_lF_CjNW0uTQgOyP3Ekl3Kgzfh8WYC73qo&index=2
>>130736315This is peak.
>>130742509I wouldn't really call his Bruckner comfy. More like incendiary. Especially the fourth movement which is not only the loudest but one of the fastest on record. >>130742652His Parsifal that he did for video is the best thing he did. >>130745415I enjoy parts of the first movement, but the second movement is a slog. The last movement is half excellent and half ridiculous. It's honestly best played very fast and a little cut.
>>130746547>Hentaigross
>>130745415All of Liszt's orchestral works from 1850 onwards rate amongst the best in their respective genres. Pic related is my favourite recording.
>>130747334....let me try that again
>>130747315hantai means opposition...ばか
>>130747334Please say sike.
speaking of Liszt, for peak spiritual health, one ought listen to his masterful Annees de pelerinage piano cycle at least twice a month,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuPAJBOafas&list=OLAK5uy_nwMTLK1B2Z8xdAgg4auBUm_gnDKHqhUTU&index=1
>>130747723Baithooven
>>130747781I don't like to listen to music while sleeping.
>>130748117Missing out. I've attended myriad opera and concert performances in my dreams.
Brahmshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zMz2F1X9IY&list=OLAK5uy_k7dGX4SWOg9C8XTcG9gPcZ9j6cKAqQlNU&index=4
>>130748289It is honestly incredible how much better Brahms's second piano concerto is than his first.
>>130748299Just about all of Brahms' music shows this development, eg String Quintet 2, Piano Quartet 3, String Sextet 2, Symphonies, Cello Sonata 2, Clarinet Sonata 2. The closest exceptions are the Piano Trio, Violin Sonata, and String Quartet, but that's more a case of the earlier work having the catchier themes, meaning the later ones still show better structure and overall composition.
>>130748299>>130748312Oh, and obviously, his solo piano music.
betatesting a quote, don't judge:>If you don't like Brahms, you have no brain. If you don't like Chopin, you have no heart.how's that
>>130748541Both sucked at orchestral music. This is an orchestra general. Make /chamber/ if you wanna talk about them
>>130748541Meh. I've heard better quotes.1307486352/10 bait
>>130748635>>>/chamber/>>>/piano/>>>/opera/>>>/choral/>>>/lieder/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu9ya1xopjY&list=OLAK5uy_nS6bpHIopqmHvQ0KxvptOimv5VYhnN6A0&index=7unbearably slow. what the hell was she thinking?
>>130748683It does sound more like a pianist messing around or trying something different than a serious, genuine performance. Funny, I was thinking about trying this cycle the other week but I'm pretty sure I read a review that turned me off from it. That and I also listened to the first two or three sonatas and was like "yeah no thanks"I appreciate that Biret recorded widely and often but a lot of it is kinda junk tbqh
>>130748635 Incorrect. Brahms was a good orchestrator and terrible at writing for the piano. Opposite for Chopin.
>>130749480>t. hasn't heard ops 116-119
>>130749489It's spelled "opp." just fyi
>>130749495anyone who doesn't like brahms is my opp, ya feel?
putting in my will my family must perform Tannhauser live at my funeral
>>130749489Garbage.Composition-wise it's not bad. It's terrible because they weren't orchestrated.
>>130749812This is stupid. Brahms wrote for the piano the same way he wrote for everything. Violinists make the same complaint about his violin concerto, but people often prefer it to more 'idiomatic' violin works by Ysaye or whatever. Not everything is about writing 'for the instrument', especially not Brahms.
I am in a world, where I am taking a stroll in a beautiful park built by the divine, suddenly my legs feel tired and request to stop. Cordially I went on ahead to sit under the shade of a chestnut tree. My fatigue washes away from me as I slip into my imaginative daydreaming, I can hear the melancholic chirping of the sparrows and the water flowing from the creeks, feel the gust of a chilly wind approaching my face, smell the rejuvenating fragrance of the good earth. But then I realize I was just listening to the start of Lohengrin. I a poor soul, venerate the gods for creating such beauty and allowing an inferior soul like me to experience it!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG53S27HI5k
reminder: the second best Lohengrin recording ever came out in the 21st centuryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbo_2lFqyB0&list=OLAK5uy_liobAcD3F_jMdBjRN6rWZ7Yuxygbt9Ftw&index=17Proof that Wagnernian performance isn't dead nor impossible.What I don't get is why this is the only Bichkov Wagner release available. If you google around, it would appear he's performed them most of them if not all at some point, yet only this wonderful recording is available.
Schuberthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYuVHmFRh14&list=OLAK5uy_nfQQU2ubL5bfBrqFNPebxFMydXv13sbMA&index=1
>>130750792Ghost of Zimerman that appears as a disembodied head and hand and tries to suck your dick.
>>130750854don't ever reply to my posts again
>>130750871I, who am awakened to Brahman, should not expect the unenlightened to elaborate fluently upon Lord Scriabin
>It sounds like there’s an additional mic strapped to Kobekina’s nose so that we can get every snort and puff in HD. topkek
feels like a Bach's Cello Suites morning. Let's go with the 2023 Queryas sethttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0NJBgXqSF8&list=OLAK5uy_m1g2HAfPpniWQR8EzDDJZcflTE0jtiOp4&index=1
Wow this sucks.
>>130750957;o -> >:(Chopin's Nocturnes in general or just that set?
>>130750966This set.I'll stick to Arrau or Rubinstein.
>>130748299I really need to get into the second piano concerto cause I like the first a lot
>>130750980>>130750957here's another worthwhile modern set. came out in 2025https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWfEJhnN0p0&list=OLAK5uy_k8n5UGlP9d7mebMw5i_KSNYIDA1Zr31tQ&index=4
>>130751004I don't listen to women
>>130751067Do you check symphony recordings for whether any women were in the orchestra?
>>130751067Oh. Well, here's two more very recent ones by menMaltempohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBVLlUsTrFc&list=OLAK5uy_msiiRw4wA_weiAqEFU0PsYoyI_UUDBgro&index=9Lisieckihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZmgoDBv0Rk&list=OLAK5uy_mAG9JpOt49H-OXVqyfpYWM67cu7xV5X9c&index=1That said, the Arrau and Rubinstein sets are both great, and there's many other excellent ones between then and now. I just wanted to give you some more modern options since you didn't like Hough's.
I know I've posted this album cover before but this time I'm finally giving it a proper listen. Join me!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRSd-DCaUPg&list=OLAK5uy_nYFrWI7eBj_AZYfFEwNBwQU32byBEX1wA&index=1>The long journey that has led me to the recording of one of Liszt's longest cycles for piano solo began many years ago, in the early stages of my piano studies. At that time, while casually tuned in to what is now known as "Radio Clasica", I happened to stumble upon one of the Hungarian composer's most important works-the Faust Symphony. Captivated by this music and unaware of the author's identity (not yet having the training necessary to identify him), I not only listened to the entire work but also made a pledge to dedicate my life to this composer, regardless of who it might be. Many of the impulses and interests of our teenage years frequently fade away, but this was not the case with my new-found passion for Liszt, which has steadfastly grown over time, along with my knowledge of his life and works.Hopefully I can make it through the entire three hours of all three books in one sitting. That's my goal, anyway.
Is classical music still evolving? Is there any opera, or sonata, or piano concerto made in the last 20-30 years that is widely considered a "true classic", here to stay?
>>130751124Define "classic"
>>130751124try Thomas Ades>operahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2HiU5470XU>piano concertohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3271RinJ3cc>sonataNot titled a cello sonata but it's still a cello-piano duo chamber piecehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DOoCEF1c2Q>>130750981well hurry up and get on it, anon!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtbdSX6G_BM
Little known Respighi: Impressioni Brasilianehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDh3wjJtyF0
>>130751098Lisickis nocturnes might be the worst I've ever heard. Completely butchered 48/1.
>>130751141Some piece, or even better a composer, that people will consider in similar league as we consider all the "big guys" from the 1800s and 1900s today.
>>130751205Hey, some people like his and Barenboim's heavy-handed, over-sentimentalized approach to Chopin. I def. understand hating it though.
>>130751164THanks for the link, I love Richter. Also I already know and like the 1st movement from trying to get into it a bit ago, I just remembered.
>>130751217Por Norgard did pass away recently, RIPJohn Adams is still alive and kickin'
>>130749843>Violinists make the same complaint about his violin concertoMaybe because they're violinists you know, perhaps there is a small chance they know, understand and hear violin better than you.Brahms fucking sucks at the piano. End of the story.
>>130751236Brahms was a performing pianist. He wrote the way he did intentionally. And violinists say the same thing about Beethoven's violin concerto. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what these composers were about.
>>130751164>>130751233Never heard of these guys. You would actually put them in same tier as Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, etc etc?
>>130751303Me? No. but they're two of the most acclaimed and esteemed contemporary composers.here's a 24 Preludes for Piano from 1999https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G58ELWYW5-s
>>130751266>you fundamentally misunderstand, they were gods I swear, composers could do no wrong!Pathetic. Actually embarrassing.
Harpsichord anons, what do you think of Luc Beauséjour's WTC?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjRepQJWl9o&list=OLAK5uy_mF5PIVy_64onrmwmtBB7cuNV0wLpsn-vM&index=24https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSO6C12PuGQ&list=OLAK5uy_kGV5XTBnz48mc8jtN_awe_PPEwQj9f77g&index=12I prefer the piano myself but the reviews are effusive, so figured some anons here might enjoy.
>>130749812What are the metrics by which one can identify a piece that is written idiomatically for the piano?
>Vladimir Feltsman, the Russian-émigré, made a sensational début some twenty-two years ago at Carnegie Hall with the works of Beethoven, Messiaen, Schubert and Schumann. Equipped with a vast repertory, Mr. Feltsman’s discography encompasses the music of Baroque masters to the lesser-known 20th century composers with the likes of Alexander Knayfel and Valentin Silvestrov.who and who? anyone familiar with these last two names/composers?
>>130751348Not helping yourself by pretending to be retarded. There is a reason the Brahms and Beethoven violin concertos are masterpieces while Paganini or Ysaye are seen as instrumental specialists and technical masters. People do this song and dance with the Missa Solemnis too. Did Beethoven write very idiomatically for the voice? No. Is it a huge pain to sing? Yes. But it's still a masterpiece of late Beethoven. A composer like Liszt is appreciated insofar as he transcends being *only* pianistic.
>tfw tasteless
Would you marry a classical musician? Or opera singer? Motivate why / why not, and if yes, which specific kind.
>>130751434Not opposed to it obviously, but there are a good number of classical musicians who just treat it like a job and don't have a particularly deep relationship with the music. It's not necessarily the case that there would be a shared connection there.
>>130751434What exactly are we talking here? Community orchestra or virtuoso?
>>130751367Textural transparency (two hands implying more than two voices via broken-chord configuration like in Bach and Chopin), exploiting what only piano is able to do (such as pedal and tremolo figures), voicing chords that reinforce instrument's natural resonance (open spacing in the bass) comfortable fingering and patterns that can be interpreted more freely, etc.>>130751392Who says it is not a masterpiece? Just sit down.
>>130751465Nice deflection but it doesn't change the fact that such people use the same reasoning as you do. It's one of the most common habits of instrumental specialists including vocalists to get tunnel vision about the idea that great music has to be idiomatic for their instrument or else it's bad .
Just for fun, which of these four WTC sets do guys think sounds the best?Sheppardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BgRha3Lyr4&list=OLAK5uy_niuBG3f5wSLexWCEX2nVbTi56vtoD8MDc&index=7Feltsmanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9OMjKMQpkY&list=OLAK5uy_nitfSx11v6oM0k8_BJ6SyPjEU7p6Q7mkk&index=7Bernard Robertshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3pXGGgMQws&list=OLAK5uy_k7AQQvkVXf1O262IdT2iEydtOi5G65yYg&index=7Schiff (1987)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-ezSE-TmP0&list=OLAK5uy_nOj9ZI9kc8GX4qzMtGz_HJyI9gq6kHbrE&index=4
>>130751497Literally no one said that. People criticize great art because nothing and no one is "perfect".
>>130751601Brahms writing unidiomatically for the piano is the substance of your criticism. You think you're the first person to notice this? It's like string players hating Bruckner etc. But his late piano works would not achieve their thick, almost symphonic texture if they were written without those 'awkward' voicings, uncomfortable fingering etc. It's made doubly silly because unlike the Bruckner example, Brahms was a virtuoso pianist. It's not a criticism of the music, which has its own beauty quite different from the Chopinesque style, but rather a parochial frustration with the technical efforts required to achieve Brahms' effects.
>>130751726>But his late piano works would not achieve their thick, almost symphonic texturePrecisely why they would work better in orchestral setting. Now you're just replying simply for the sake of it.
>tfw playing Brahms's late piano works and not noticing anything that weird about the fingering
>>130751741No, they wouldn't. There have actually been orchestrations of some of his late piano works (certainly of op. 117 and op. 118) and they're simply not as good because they lose the inward, domestic character. Achieving those unique effects *on the piano* is the point. Pushing the boundaries of what instruments can achieve beyond what is idiomatic for them is part of what pushing the boundaries of music mean. It's obvious you don't have an argument here or you would've made one instead of deflecting.
How can one create programs that offer a living cohesive experience, moving beyond convention and randomness?
>>130751823Don't overthink it
>>130751434She would preferably have big tits and play cello. But yes
>>130751800>brings up vague things like"inward, domestic character.">accuses me of having no argumentsYou're *the* reply for replying sake anon. I know you. Your pattern is just too obvious. You never have arguments but you think you do, not sure why I'm even wasting my breath on you.
>>130752680Yes, it's very vague and mysterious how pieces written for domestic settings on a single instrument have a domestic character compared to pieces played on a full symphony orchestra. Fuck off.
>>130752814Thank you domestic cattle.
>>130752928You keep deflecting. Do you or do you not regard the expressive character of solo piano as distinct from a symphony orchestra?
>>130752986Yes, when the expressive character is actually present. No one is deflecting, domestic cattle, you're just upset.
>>130751574Schiff obviously
>>130753025Claiming that no expressive character is present in Brahms' piano works is both vaguer and more hubristic than anything I have said. Perhaps if you put more effort into understanding why these pieces express a great deal to a great many musicians and listeners instead of coming up with pithy sub-sisterposter comebacks, you would be able to engage seriously with this topic. No one cares how emotionally detached you are.
now playingstart of Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 in D Minor, Op. 125https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C05uXTOHNUk&list=OLAK5uy_m3QwYOwmxKy0AMoEVbPZiknfDfqiwVi_E&index=1https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m3QwYOwmxKy0AMoEVbPZiknfDfqiwVi_EA Beethoven's 9th afternoon, conducted by Franz Konwitschny and performed by the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra.
>>130753396from the opening of a review of this recording,>There is no shortage of fine recordings of Beethoven’s celebrated Ninth Symphony, but this reissue of a classic version by that great Beethoven conductor Franz Konwitschny can take a proud place among them. A few years ago his complete Beethoven symphonies cycle was issued, and in his review Rob Barnett made the pertinent observation that ‘for his state funeral procession the streets of Leipzig were lined deep and crowded over a ten kilometre route’. Man, imagine that happening today!
>>130753159Too much text from a dilettante. Keep it short next time, domestic cattle.
How do I voice like Glenn Gould?
>>130753443Good to know you feel pressed enough that you've replaced any attempt at substantiation with the typical clichés. Unfortunately there is no third act where you're rewarded for being the hooded wojak on the high end of bell curve who is simply above dilettantes and midwits. Argue, you coward. Do you actually believe that Brahms' piano works have no expressive character or is that going to be another statement you leave unargued?
>>130753559Practice voicing each line, then practice voicing two lines at the same time (in every combination of lines), then practice giving one of the two lines more weight than the other (again, in every combination), then practice switching between those voicings on the fly, then listen to a Gould recording and copy him.
>>130751465>Textural transparency (two hands implying more than two voices via broken-chord configuration like in Bach and Chopin)What you are describing is just counterpoint, which is not unique to the piano.>exploiting what only piano is able to do (such as pedal and tremolo figures)That would get old pretty quickly if composers had to dogmatically apply it in their pieces.>comfortable fingering and patterns that can be interpreted more freelyThis is not audible.
>>130753688Thanks he plays those fugues better than anyone.
>>130754108You're welcome. Go get 'em, champ :)
Yet again putting all of Marc-André Hamelin albums on a playlist, just wonderful, I wish Sir Andráss Schiff would also dabble a bit on modern/contemporary stuff, love his playing.
hello, can someone help me identify a song from this i'm not sure if i did it in the right key it might be beethovenhttps://onlinesequencer.net/5499123
>>130745356The 50 greatest penises?
>Good to know you feel pressed enough that you've replaced any attempt at substantiation with the typical clichés. Unfortunately there is no third act where you're rewarded for being the hooded wojak on the high end of bell curve who is simply above dilettantes and midwits. Argue, you coward. Do you actually believe that Brahms' piano works have no expressive character or is that going to be another statement you leave unargued?
>In Paris in 1858, Wagner listened to Berlioz reading the libretto of Les Troyens with a mounting anxiety, so that "I really found myself wishing that I might never see him again since, in the end, to be so utterly unable to help a friend can only become unbearably painful. The text is clearly the pinnacle of his misfortune, which nothing now can surpass.">Six years earlier, in a letter to Liszt (Wagner considered Berlioz, Liszt and himself the three most important composers of the day), he had written: "If ever a musician needed a poet, it is Berlioz, and it is his misfortune that he always adapts his poet to his own musical whim, arranging now Shakespeare, now Goethe, to suit his own purpose. He needs a poet to fill him through and through, a poet who is driven by ecstasy to violate him, and who is to him what man is to woman." But the poet Wagner had in mind for this job of violating Berlioz was Wagner himself. He thought that Berlioz ought to set the story of Wieland the Smith, a German legend of which he, Wagner, had written the prose outline.
>>130755609It sounds like he wants to knock him up
>>130741298> RK's Easter overtureMe too.
>>130750919> Plays Preludes 30% faster than usual> The rest of the movements is pretty normal What's the idea here ???
>>130754910Would you rather a fat ugly hand like Ham's that can reach an 11th easily, or nice slender fingers that max out at 10ths?
>>130755748Every artist wishes to impregnate the world with aesthetic sublimity.
>>130754018>What you are describing is just counterpointNot really, it's the way piano handles counterpoint. Huge difference.>That would get old pretty quicklyNo, it absolutely would not. That's like saying "good orchestration would get old".>This is not audible.It actually is. You never hear as much freedom in Brahms precisely because it's unpianistic and ugly.>>130753672The argument ended when you brought up nonsensical terminology to cope with basic facts about a composer, keyboard warrior, you lost. You had no argument to begin with.>Argue, you coward.As I predicted, you're replying for the sake of it. You never have any substance to offer, like our previous debate about meaning in music. A keyboard warrior subject of /classical/ with no ultimate purpose in any debate.
Hmm, yeah the Bichkov/Czech Phil Mahler cycle is pretty mediocre. There's just something emotionally and tonally pallid and dull about it. Symptomatic of our modern times I suppose.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGo9ZrFg7Mk&list=OLAK5uy_kfWJspr5hfj-l90N68iw9iVtb8xWq5RD0&index=6This movement should make you feel, y'know? Yet it does nothing. Maybe I'm just not in the mood for Mahler. Could be.
Brahmshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p5xb2dv9hI&list=OLAK5uy_n09x5EN3XbRG9WAIMn59lu0GjsaDFs9EI&index=6
idc, I love the Zweden Ring. In fact, I might rank it even over the Barenboim and Boulez Rings.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq0yb7BvlD4&list=OLAK5uy_mnsm4T-64P2laU9NVxDL0MmK4qbDNAywE&index=5
>>130756762i hope you're as miserable as you seem
No one actually likes composers like Steve Reich, Philip Glass, or Ligeti, right? They're the RYMcore of the /classical/ world.Messiaen is dope tho
>>130757159I genuinely think you may be deaf to what makes a good voice.
>>130757332I'm getting there. I can recognize that the singing on the Thielemann Rings or Luisi Ring or Janowski 2011 Ring are not good. But I legitimately like the singing on the Zweden Ring.And I like that it's different than the Golden Era singers.
Nothing pleases my autism more than this shithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4DEnboF7xE&list=RDK4DEnboF7xE&start_radio=1
>>130756762you really think Brahms' music is so difficult that virtuosos who can play stuff like the trascendental etudes are not good enough to interpret it? lmao.
>>130757360I like some of the singing in the Zweden ring but some of it is god awful
>>130757668Fair enough.
What is some refreshing music you can use to cool down in this heat?
>>130758014Kreisleriana (Horowitz, 69, Cortot 35)
>classicstoday still hasn't brought back the feature to search for a specific work
>>130758197Just search on Dave's channel
>>130757136i finally managed to find that cd-set for a reasonable price, and i'm not disappointed: what marvelous string sound! have these symphonies ever sounded better? great stuff.
Burgmüller.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q5qysUBcpo&list=OLAK5uy_mR_n28yXk6Bw3VUtEttYJnwxFurmkwhTE&index=2
Etude Op.25 no.6 - Rank these performances, who has the best thirds?Rosenthal (piano roll)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvWiVnt2UX4Lhevinnehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lec704Z7vmATiegermanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHduUqgSg2MKoczalskihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CrSCca-EpIFriedmanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j2Av0Q18js
>>130758887Lhevinne > Rosenthal > Tiegerman > Friedman > KoczalskiMight have rated Rosenthal higher actually but it gets a knock for being a roll
>>130758887It's exremely hard but I'm gonna attempt my own: Rosenthal > Lhevinne > Friedman > Tiegerman > Koczalski>>130758908Very similar to my own! But on some other day I could rank Koczalski higher, or whatever, but Rosenthal's is the most impressive.
>>130758887Friedman > Rosenthal > Lhévinne >>>>> Koczalski > Tiegerman
>>130758665Glad you love it as well! I keep recommending it here but people never seem to take my Levine recommendations seriously.
>>130736315Not the thread for it but settle a debate for me /mu/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRrz3yYC2YgIs the first note of the flute solo at the end a G3 or a G4?
This is pretty goodhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZrq8iLS9iE&list=OLAK5uy_mjcsHhEue17IeCZ2TWu7QBMM1l0MumsNc&index=2
>>130759290
>>130759324
>at lunch with family, family friends, and some friends of theirs>my mom talks about some slop tv show she likes>some upper 20s yo guy whose a friend of one of those family friends makes an insulting comment about my mom's tastes>me: "what music do you like?">them: some indie shit, with a smug, secure smile>me: "oh lol... aren't you a little old not to be listening to classical?">them: "pfft, ya, like you're into classical">me: "well, yeah, i'm not a child :)">them: no comebackliking classical has practical benefits too
>>130757290I like Steve Reichhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXJWO2FQ16c>>130758197Are they going to? I thought they gated it behind the paid tier.
>>130759416>>them: some indie shit, with a smug, secure smileYou should've just replied>>me: thank you indie sister
>>130758197Really? That's cringe. Searching on Google for "[work] classicstoday" works decently.>>130758559Fuggin' Zoomer. Reading articles > video reviews.
>>130759473>Reading articles > video reviews.No. Video reviews have more discussion and it's better to listen than read. Fuck off.
>>130759658Not only can I read faster than the speed of the video, I can read while listening to classical. Checkmate, Gin, Yahtzee.
New Haydn solo piano recording just dropped by Peter Donohoe. For those unfamiliar, he's one of those pianists who's just short of greatness. Still, generally worth a listen, especially in this case where there aren't too many options for Haydn sonata cycles.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lJUplmFlvU&list=OLAK5uy_kFofeFHXwSoTX8AMoKMF8jbQxOaqX3Xac&index=25>This second volume of Peter Donohoe's Haydn Keyboard Works series brings together a wide-ranging selection of sonatas, partitas, capriccios and fantasias spanning almost the composer's entire career. From the early Partita in G major to the dramatic B minor Sonata and the late works of the 1780s, the programme traces both Haydn's stylistic development and the evolution of the keyboard itself. Folk-inspired pieces such as the Capriccio in G major and the Fantasia in C major sit alongside sonatas of elegance, wit and expressive depth. Donohoe's clarity, rhythmic vitality and architectural insight illuminate Haydn's invention and craftsmanship throughout.
>>130759471That's liable to get your arrested for a hate crime here in Portland.
>>130759699>second rate piano works by a second rate pianistHmm, I think I'll skip this one.
>>130759717y-you can't just listen to Richter's Haydn for the rest of your life!!
test
>>130759675Fast readers are usually retarded and bad at analysis. Checks out that you listen to music while reading, you do neither of those things efficiently.
>>130759814Yeah I'm laying back down. Goodbye.
>>130759710Would they make fun of your opioid addiction?
>>130759838This ain't four years ago when I looked like a ghoul, I look good now, people can't tell anymore.
Tchaikovskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rNUvAl_DxA&list=OLAK5uy_kMEixP5emqmdqK0-QM7Z6F2tSGdvSpCew&index=25
>>130756762I'm not responding to your hooded wojak roleplay anymore. Again, how exactly do you get from the unique pianistic challenges these works present to claiming they have no expressive character?
the Axel Kober Ring remains the final modern one I haven't tried, so let's gohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8B-dkU2-rY&list=OLAK5uy_l2rQxjNgUNL5Jjmn61V6O5M2AOz4uCrAA&index=13Sounds pretty good to me so far.inb4 the other Wagner anon samples it and says it sucks and I have no taste and wouldn't know good singing if it sucked my cockIf they try it and say they like it, that would make me a bit happy though.
Feltsman's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW9bTf9w6LM&list=OLAK5uy_nitfSx11v6oM0k8_BJ6SyPjEU7p6Q7mkk&index=31the WTC has been hitting the spot so nice lately
You guys ever have days where there's several pieces you want to listen to all at the same time and it's difficult to decide which? Maybe you start up one and then a couple minutes in you switch and then after a couple minutes again you debate switching back or maybe to yet another
Lalo.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1EspHhPXms&list=OLAK5uy_lf0y4Tk5TupeVqPyGQTY1jn1eagsf3R2w&index=23
>>130760410Don't worry, I only listen to the audio you post whenever you bait me in with a "this is just as good as old singers!" line.
>>130760592Yes and oddly enough I had that feeling about Kreisleriana vs another Schumann piece, which is ironic because of how indecisive and turbulent the piece itself is.
Wow
Draeseke.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS4vPFSTbiw&list=OLAK5uy_nHx59LermGT9wCqMco-oBoMC74PLdpV0k&index=5
What causes dissonance, what determines its degree, and what is crucial for our perception of it?
>>130761054Certain intervals whose pitch classes are either too distant in the overtone series or create jarring, unpredictable frequencies (due to specific waveforms) that we hear as dissonant; Several things, including and especially interaction of overtone series and waveforms; Ears.
>>130761158So dissonance appears when man brings close together frequencies that nature has kept far apart?
>>130761187No. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Also dissonance appears in nature.
>>130736315Recently I've been listening to Sibelius Violin Concerto by Lisa Batiashvili / Barenboim and the Staatskapelle Berlin. It also has Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto as a pair. Heard her in live with Prokofiev First Violin Sonata and Franck Violin Sonata in A Major. There was also To Gia Kancheli - a piece by Georgian composer Josef Bardanashvili. Honestly a pretty nice piece, although I was unable to find a recording. Anyway, live she was amazing too. Any other of her albums to recommend?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGZh_VivKa4&list=OLAK5uy_kqYm_357UDfxb3fmO7uNdmGuyoan-KdTE&index=4
>>130761283I'm a Georgian myself but I'm surprised Georgian performers/composers impressed you so much. I'm not familiar with her recordings so can't recommend anything, sorry.
What composer wrote the best adagios/andantes?
I only listen to Rach 2 and 3 played by Yuja
>>130761879"[Composer name] [number]" is for symphonies, not concertos>>130761879>Aborted.
>>130761879Rookie mistake.
>>130760709hehe :ptry that Kober one if you have the time and let me know what you think.
>>130761283Visions of Love, which contains the Prokofiev Violin Concertos. Secret Love Letters, which contains pieces from Franck, Debussy, Szymanowski, and Chausson. Echoes of Time, which contains Shostakovich and Rach. And then her Beethoven Violin Concerto and Brahms Violin Concerto recordings.
>>130760709>>130762363Oh, and if you still haven't tried it yet, the Bichkov Lohengrin DOES in fact stand up to the classics.
Mahler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEGIcVAEszw&list=OLAK5uy_kfWJspr5hfj-l90N68iw9iVtb8xWq5RD0&index=30
Kanchelihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbAVk0Ms_mE
Someone should do a listening survey of Liszt Piano Sonata in B minor recordings.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UimlbR1ffO4&list=OLAK5uy_kfXsYK6hIl24E0pCt4JUeTG7GZIrpKMtg&index=5
>>130763747Fascinating stuff, thanks! This would be amazing to see in live performance.
>Sir Charles Mackerrasdismissed
It seems universal that the average performance for any given work uses a slower tempo than intended by the composer. Are there any exceptions to this? A piece where most musicians and/or conductors went "okay this actually needs to be sped up"?
>>130762382One more Vocalise into my collection. Thank you for the recs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GphRFlFF_yg&list=PLuvKLuE6MiW9xhaw8M-FcvWF3Kw8IocI8&index=8
>>130765222Glad it worked out. I love Vocalise too.Also, my not listing her other recordings doesn't mean I didn't like them, I just haven't tried them, so they might be worth checking out too if you're really into her.
Holsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmn1oP3KW1A&list=OLAK5uy_nvBnI3XN1E18antWJCeQOJHQmK4mf_YD8&index=1
brahms
mozart
bruckner
chopin
>>130767567>>130767810this>>130767380a bit if this>>130767822not so much this
>>130765128yes, Mozart's Alla Turca (Turkish March). Virtually everyone plays it faster.
>>130768193Ultimate pleb
Mozart > Brahms > Chopin > Bruckner
Chopin > Brahms > Mozart > Bruckner
>>130768201Interesting, thank you.
once again, it's pronounced brahmins
Sgambati.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTU6X3CwDew
Widor.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIhh6rsqLzA&list=PL4D14bmfCxVW6QkfstWujMlTqgXtY9BLC
okay I guess I'm starting to realize the singing on the Zweden Ring perhaps isn't as good as I remember. Primarily I'm noticing there's certain parts/voices where I'm not so much enjoying as I am tolerating.I don't know if I'm ready to go full "delete any Ring besides Karajan/Bohm/Solti/Keilberth" but I at least sympathize with it now
you guys peep this new Martinu cycle yet?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMjVI6zjzg&list=OLAK5uy_k4T9TGlEQqO7Xw7xKRDs99FIS6vON3rVA&index=16>On their new album, conductor Jakub Hrůša and the Bamberger Symphoniker explore the six symphonies of Czech composer Bohuslav Martinů – one of the 20th century’s finest symphonic cycles. Composed during the composer’s American exile, these mature works encompass poetic lyricism, epic tragedy, and Bohemian colour and energy.
Unironically worth going through all of the Beethoven Piano Sonatas? I think I've listened to all the famous/named ones. Or should I just spend my time listening to other people's works.
>>130770110As someone who used to think only the named and late ones were essential, I've come to realize all 32 are masterpieces in their own right. Depends how much you like them versus how much you want to explore a certain other composer, I suppose. But if you're already in the Beethoven zone, then yeah, most definitely.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w3ulelzdfg&list=OLAK5uy_m_afPa6Mlu26qm3BjKrYKKDCFhkrLRxAo&index=20unbridled joy!
new>>130770271>>130770271>>130770271
>>130770110Not really.
