Chad Schumann Editionhttps://youtu.be/4YpkT_WGVnAThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>130842397
>chadDies of aids No
Best polyphonic chamber music composed for a monophonic stringed instrument?
>>130853861do canons count?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWczmo1wAdI
Favorite pieces by Por Norgard?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNSukg81c_0ahhhh my ears!
How Per Nørgård tricked Ligeti into discovering Rued Langgaardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OX_4cJyhgI
>>130855698Norgard sucks and people should stop assuming something is good because it's Nordic.
>>130853861>2 minutes after a new thread is made>already seethingI've completely mindbroken you. I guess your meltdown continues into the next edition.
>>130853861>>130856185Whoever those are, you truly are mindbroken, both of you. Lmfao.Friendly reminder that cello suites are not chamber music.
>be me>taking Classical Music: Chamber class>write final essay on Britten's Cello Suites>get F with a note in the margin: "not chamber music">cry, dropout, and get hooked on fentanyldamn
I still don't understand why e.g. solo cello is chamber music but solo piano isn't.
Janos Starker's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p70Yyfdbllk&list=OLAK5uy_nSXNp582nUGqE2W8ZZMKRUuGq8WLW3XqY&index=1
>>130856213Your logic and reasoning is entirely correct. Neither of them are chamber music. You can't possinly think of a coherent explanation without resorting to logical fallacies and arbitrary "exceptions".>>130856202Kek. Deserved.
>>130856202that reminds me of the time when a theory lecturer told me I incorrectly identified something in an analytical essay but the lecturer refused to elaborate further.
>>130856202>BrittenI bet you were put on a pedophile watchlist as well.
>>130856199>>130856202>3 minutes after my postYou're not fooling anyone, mindbroken buddy.Friendly reminder that Bach's cello suites are chamber music and this is a widely accepted fact by the BWV and NBE catalogues, Bach scholars, musicologists, performers, teachers, conservatory people, publishers, editors, record labels, liner-note writers, music databases, libraries, archives, Bach societies, ensembles, broadcasters, educational sites, streaming metadata, listeners, and general real-life musical usage.>>130856213Bach is an exception. The two main reasons are the polyphonic "illusion" and historical context.>Solo piano music is not considered chamber music because it is self-sufficient and fully orchestrated by one person, whereas unaccompanied solo cello—such as Bach's suites—is a specialized category that historically grew out of chamber ensemble traditions.
>>130856291>You're not fooling anyoneCorrect. I'm not trying to either.>Friendly reminder that Bach's cello suites are chamber musicIncorrect.>Bach is an exceptionIncorrect.
>>130856291Why are you advocating for unprincipled exceptions?
>>130856303>I'm not trying to either.Reverse psychology attempt.>Incorrect.I guess everybody is wrong and you're right. I'll be looking forward to your groundbreaking scholarly work on the subject.
AIslop sisters... Our response?
>>130856307Life is full of exceptions, anon. Why are you screaming at the sun?
>>130856308>Reverse psychology attempt.Schizophrenia moment.
>>130856312>The world is not perfect, therefore I'm right.
don't you guys have anything important to discuss?
>>130856307Because they are an unprincipled, spiteful moron.
>>130856314Oh the irony.>>130856317Who are you quoting?
>>130856324I guess everybody is wrong and you're right. I'll be looking forward to your groundbreaking scholarly work on the subject.
>>130856320How about the fact that cello suites are categorically not chamber music by any coherent definition? Sounds fun.
>>130856333I guess everybody is wrong and you're right. I'll be looking forward to your groundbreaking scholarly work on the subject.
Broken record.
>sun is not a star, it's an exception>donkey is not an animal, it's an exception>wagner is not a composer, he's an exception
>>130856341False equivalency, by the way. Nobody is claiming those things, whereas Bach's cello suites are widely accepted as being chamber music.
>>130856335>I guess everybody is wrong and you're right.Correct.>>130856344Incorrect.
>>130856348>Correct.Well that finally settles it. Everybody is wrong and you're right. That's all I needed to hear.
>>130856360Yes, from henceforth you are always wrong and I am always correct.
>>130856360>>130856367go back to discord, faggots.
My favorite chamber composer, Liszt!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMtTvSvD7dY
I feel like there ought to be a Russian Bruckner. Oh well.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfhIyFWYYkU
The K-God's Beethoven (1975-1977 recordings) is pretty damn good.
>>130856310sneed.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLvoN-dPydI
>>130856426Mmm. Smells like pure chamber music!Anway, only my use of AIslop was ever justified on /classical/. And it was to illustrate the Schumann/Liszt debacle.
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v0YHzg2IdE
>>130856479>chad Liszt>seething SchumannWhat is our response, chad-Schumann sisters?
>another thread of people replying to the keyboard hisstersister's ragebait
What do y'all know about Michael Nyman?
>>130856600pbuh.
>>130856400Like I always say, the acclaimed sets have their reputation and fame for a reason.
>>130856664kill yourself immediately.
the Ravel set every poster in /classical/ ought to have in their library<------https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew0d-hderKs&list=OLAK5uy_n4oXvP23jHFxWRyMuNV7rZcyWSBuI60DY&index=1
I f*cking love guitar music, especially pieces with restrained melodies and a sense of ancient places instead of overt virtuosity.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qMaeIMh1pw
Are Bach cello suites with belly dancer accompaniment chamber music?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ux2qYgZNfUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6bjHLVr_iM
>>130856786fuck off.
>>130856786That counts as an ensemble in my book, so yes.
>>130856746
newfag to this gen, want to get into piano, looking for a digital, doing research :>"dude just get a yamaha P145">"dude don't be dumb shell out just a bit more and go for the P225">"dude no the action is SHIT get a Roland fp30">"dude no the action is shit too on a roland fp30 you cant play fast shit you'll outgrow it fast"pls help
BWV 1002 is one of my favorite chamber pieces
>>130857565I personally have a Roland FP-60 and am happy with it. Have had it for about 8 years now and still looks and works just as when I bought it. It's true that the action isn't exactly like a concert grand but I can't play any of those super virtuosic pieces anyway. Anyway, from what I remember from my research an FP-30 will be basically the same for someone just starting out except cheaper, so I would recommend either of these.
>>130857565don't be retarded and just go to the nearest music store that has keyboards and see which one you like best.
I wanna ask, why are people in these threads so autistic about what is a chamber piece of music or not?
>>130857674it's really just one guy
>>130856310why does this matter
>>130857674I would abandon these threads for talkclassical or reddit but then I remember they are even worse.
The finale of Beethoven's 7th is waaayyyy too gaudy.
>>130857566BWV 1004 for me but all his Violin Sonatas/Partitas are masterpieces.
>>130857566>>130858183Not chamber music.
>>130858393Symphonies are technically chamber pieces if you think about it because a concert hall is basically a big chamber
>mfw someone calls Bach cello suite a 'chamber piece'
>>130858608only if played by a chamber orchestra.
>>130858608At least a chamber symphony can be viewed as an ensemble, a solo performance ain't chambershit.
>>130857674Some jackass got upset last thread that people didn't include Bach in their top 10 chamber composers, citing cello suites as their example of Bach "chamber music", then I pointed out that cello suites aren't chamber pieces, so the jackass started appealing to authority and cited some catalogue-making dude as a proof that the cello suites are chamber music, extrapolating that to say that all musicologists agree that cello suites are chamber music.Fact: cello suites, solo violin sonatas&partitas and solo piano are not chamber pieces. Chamber music requires an ensamble: duos, trios, quartets, quintets, sextets, septets, octets, etc. are all chamber ensembles.
>>130858741thank you sister
>>130858752sending hugs through discord, sister
>>130851935You were right, Beethoven's 5th sonata is great as well.
>>130857566For me it's BWV 1012. Really the peak of chamber music.
>>130858741So basically he was citing actual musicology and you're doubling down on your basic, preschooler definition. Cool, got it. I just checked the catalogue you mentioned and the pieces are sorted under chamber music, so anon was correct.
>>130858741I am guessing this is because people don't really care about what stuff is named, so confusion starts>>130858752>>130858774y'all trannies?
>>130858891To be fair to the autist, he didn't just name musicologists, but performers, teachers, publishers, editors, record companies, blah blah blah. It stops being an argument from authority if everybody is doing it.
>>130858891>he
speaking of solo cello pieces I've been enjoying the Weinberg sonatas lately.https://youtu.be/13vgjsMu9IU
>>130858950Sorry sister, I meant she.
I see where Schumann got his autism from
>>130858957Redpill me on Weinberg
>>130858891>>130858938Incorrect.They only cited a wikipedia article. The article contains Schmieder's catalogue. I still have to see a source independent of Schmieder and his influence, that calls these pieces 'chamber music' - so pre 1950. It's no surprise thar Schmieder wrongly lumped these pieces with chamber music, because they're very few and unique. Although that doesn't mean they are or that they function as chamber music.
>>130859043First of all, Wikipedia uses real sources these days so it's not like somebody made it up. The references are on the bottom of the page and it's not that hard to verify. I went back and checked what you two retards were specifically fighting about and no, they didn't only cite Wikipedia. They also cited IMSLP and a bunch of other random websites because their whole point was that everybody refers to those pieces as chamber music in practice, which is evidently true.
>>130859121>because their whole point was that Their whole point is invalidated by the fact that he's citing an influential catalogue-maker and using that as his sole argument.
>>130859149Sounds suspiciously convenient for you but no it doesn't really look like that. He's citing more than one catalogue and also a bunch of random websites that have nothing to do with the original catalogue.
>>130859149>>130859186Look I checked the other catalogue on IMSLP>https://imslp.org/wiki/Neue_Bach-Ausgabe_%28Bach%2C_Johann_Sebastian%29and it says this>Series VI. Chamber Music>1. Werke für Violine>2. Sechs Suiten für Violoncello soloso I'm not sure what the confusion is about.
this guy does this routine of stubbornly repeating himself and calling everyone but him wrong and stupid every thread at this point. idk what you expected.
Classical that makes you forget about women that keep coming in your dreams? Wagner maybe
>>130859269Scriabin
>>130859269>women that keep coming in your dreamswhat a specific problem
This album is extraordinarily fantastic. Really special.All killer no filler
>>130859269nothing will make you forget other than having sex with them IRL
>>130859316First one passed away, broke up with the other one two weeks after meeting her because she was laughing at gore and racebait videos on /b/, she was cute but incapable of being genuine. Felt I was betraying the first one. Thanks for reading my blog>>130859271Maybe the piano sonatas and préludes, but his orchestra works make me long for, well, sexual ecstasy.
>>130859269Love is exaggerated in your fantasies and on television. Reality however is quite disappointing. Your problem will only get worse with Wagner, listen to some other music instead like rap or hip hop.
How can people even stand to listen to mono/hiss recordings that sound like they were recorded underwater over modern, clear recordings?
>>130859214>Series VI. Chamber MusicThis is the exact same Schmieder catalogue. Stop wasting my time you retard.
>>130859561Sometimes the performances are good enough to justify the downgrade in audio fidelity.
>>130859733>Sometimes
>>130859561I actually like it when it sounds old
>you will never hear Schnabel, Schiff, Scherchen, and Schwarzkopf perform Schubert, Schumann, and Schnittke together
now playingstart of Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 15https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5cmXkdY5A&list=OLAK5uy_nq9rtqaTLvtoInM-aG9lLJziPDxELA5F4&index=2start of Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 2 in B-Flat Major, Op. 83https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNXtlOEmE1M&list=OLAK5uy_nq9rtqaTLvtoInM-aG9lLJziPDxELA5F4&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nq9rtqaTLvtoInM-aG9lLJziPDxELA5F4>Overall, Mehta’s latest cycle of Brahms’ symphonies and piano concertos is well worth exploring. While it doesn’t offer any groundbreaking interpretive insights, the performances are consistently reliable, showcasing polished playing and a deep understanding of this great music. ---- Tel Agam, The Classic Review
if you don't like Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony, we can't ever be friends or sleep together, sorry!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHO2Wr9yQeQ
>>130860284If I like it, can we sleep together?
>>130860284I was JUST listening to the finale when I decided to drop by! It's such a beautiful composition, it's almost as if the saddest thing on planet earth is happening right before your eyes but you are a cold and emotionless observer, and the strings and the mellow brass in the background are like a fire melting away the ice that has encapsulated your heart... And then the massive brass at the end, like the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah...
Just... WOW!I cried at some parts. Any more like this?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3s45XOnYOIw
>>130860431https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeOs0r_5Xbw
>>130859739All the times in the case of opera Most of the times in the case of solo piano works A good chunk of times when it comes to symphonic worksKinda mixed on chamber musicAlthough in all these cases, limited repertoire of early recordings means you can sometimes be wanting for more.
>>130860455Yeah there aren't as many great chamber recordings for some reason. Thankfully solo piano and cello are not chamber music and Casals recorded Bach cello suites though!
I want a Bruckner 8 with very transparent textures. A lot of instruments are completely drowned out by others in the finale of famous recordings. What do you guys recommend?
>>130859703No, it's not. The Neue Bach-Ausgabe was published by Bärenreiter and has nothing to do with Schmieder personally. It's a completely separate critical edition with its own series structure. Chamber music is the 10th genre group out of 13 in BWV, but Series VI out of 9 in the NBA. It's very clearly not the same thing.
>>130861221
>>130861227The neue bach-ausgabe uses the same macro-genre divisions established by the BWV catalog. It was published (1954) after Schmieder's BWV (1950). It all perfectly lines up, the former influenced the latter. That is no independent source.Stop wasting my time.
Everything is connected.
>>130859400>broke up with the other one two weeks after meeting her because she was laughing at gore and racebait videos on /b/>her>she
>>130861311No, not really. The NBA obviously uses BWV numbers and belongs to the same Bach scholarly tradition, so it isn't completely unrelated. But it has nothing to do with Schmieder personally, it's not the exact same catalogue and it doesn't "perfectly line up". BWV has 13 main genre chapters, the NBA has 9 editorial series, and they combine the material differently. The relevant point is that the NBA still puts the solo violin and solo cello works under chamber music, so this clearly isn't some random Schmieder-only quirk. If Schmieder had simply made an error, as you're claiming, then a later critical edition had every chance to correct it. It didn't.And you're wasting your own time. Nobody is forcing you to keep doubling down.
>>130861367>then a later critical edition had every chance to correct it. It didn't.It didn't have a chance, it reduced tbe amount of categories as you suggest, it didn't expand them. And it was mainly done for convenience, as I explained it earlier, the non-keyboard solo pieces are too few so they lump them with chamber pieces even though they're not related at all.
>>130861367Aren't you the one who has been doubling, nay tripling down on this?
SiDoMirelalaDo dofadofaMifare, solsol remisifa fasi
>>130861367The National Bachketball Association
>>130861390Do you have a source for "mainly done for convenience", or is that just your own explanation? Reducing the number of categories doesn't prove anything by itself. Critical editions can combine, split or reorganize material for all kinds of editorial reasons.And if it were just convenience, the structure is oddly specific. Organ works are separate from keyboard works, lute works are grouped with keyboard rather than chamber music, and Canons + Musical Offering (why aren't they under keyboard or chamber music?) get their own series with Art of Fugue. So there's clearly an editorial logic here that isn't as simple as one would expect.The point is that this seems to be a broader Bach-cataloguing convention, not just an error by one person.
>>130861459>Organ works are separateare still separate etc.*
Don't those kinds of catalogues and editions usually have some kind of critical report at the beginning that explains what they did?
>>130861459>The point is that this seems to be a broader Bach-cataloguing conventionSo tell me, how would you as a Bach-catalogist organize the non-keyboard solo works? You can't lump them together with cantatas, motets etc. surely? You can't lump them with organ or keyboard works either?You can't make a whole branch of non-keyboard solo works since it would be too small and inconvenient.What's left is the chamber music, since it is timbrally closest to chamber music than any other Bach category one could arrange. What's more, is that this person in 1954 clearly didn't think this through on their own, they based their categorization on a well-established one to avoid further confusion. The "damage" was already done.
This discussion is by far the most autistic and ridiculous in history of this board.
>>130861565Good question, but it's based on an assumption. That's a plausible explanation, but it's still just your explanation. A critical edition wasn't under some metaphysical obligation to copy Schmieder's categories. It could have created a solo instrumental works category, or called the series "chamber and solo works" or whatever, or arranged the material differently if the existing classification were considered genuinely wrong.>this person in 1954 clearly didn't think this through on their ownThis just sounds like guesswork.
>>130861658As a wise man once said, any explanation is better than none. Critical edition was not under any metaphysical obligation, however it had epistemic access to Schmieder's catalogue which gives us the right to claim the influence.
>>130861221For transparency above all else, Janowski's is the way to go. It's kinda stiff tempo wise.
>right-click "Bach: Cello Suites">artist: Johann Sebastian Bach>performer: Mischa Maisky>genre: Symphonythis kills the /classical/ poster
now playingstart of Brahms: Violin Sonata No. 1 in G Major, Op. 78https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6YyF0zEVpE&list=OLAK5uy_mBt2bnLG2DewgJrMJbouG0k8sav68k4NA&index=2start of Brahms: Violin Sonata No. 2 in A Major, Op. 100https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlHYD4Nwnxw&list=OLAK5uy_mBt2bnLG2DewgJrMJbouG0k8sav68k4NA&index=5start of Brahms: Violin Sonata No. 3 in D Minor, Op. 108https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXSs107fyuo&list=OLAK5uy_mBt2bnLG2DewgJrMJbouG0k8sav68k4NA&index=7https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mBt2bnLG2DewgJrMJbouG0k8sav68k4NA
>>130856199I'm just shitposting, and will be spamming this from now on, not because I have any opinion on it, just that its been a while since we had a hot take like this in /classical/.
If a solo instrument counts as chamber music, then does an an ensemble of 5 instruments who use triple and quadruple stops along side dense counterpoint with loud dynamics count as a symphony?
>mfw someone tags obviously dense polyphonic composed cello music as solo instrumental in the genre tag rather than chamber music
Is there anything more sex-pilled than this masterpiece?
>>130861589We're so back boys, now we just need some tripfags we can bully then /classical/ will begin cooking again.
Is 36 Chambers >/chamber/?
>>130863752just tag it as classical, faggot
Strausshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjwnp2vaZVU&list=OLAK5uy_mFfot9-qLbaWZ-qL6d5MV0iW4Xq3XtIKI&index=1
Saariaho goddess of musichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nhZrcWeWcQ
>mfw I finally realize French Baroque is goatedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK6rSxVk05o&list=RDGK6rSxVk05o&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBLu0KQF80U&list=RDgBLu0KQF80U&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2krKZCdgNs&list=RD-2krKZCdgNs&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FCteVF8Cyk&list=PLXRLZBvRZlldDkrtXXw9mK0rb3aA_EgI2&index=6https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OMjMgQXHGo&list=PLXRLZBvRZlldDkrtXXw9mK0rb3aA_EgI2&index=26https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41A9SzM06Uw&list=RD41A9SzM06Uw&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJfd9CuE7MU&list=RDlJfd9CuE7MU&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OAZukcPeCI&list=RD2OAZukcPeCI&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMoRPxLdSQ0&list=RDIMoRPxLdSQ0&start_radio=1Bow to the glory of Le Roi Sol, Vive le France!
Who has the best Beethoven piano sonatas
>>130865263Annie Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Arrau, Gilels, Brendelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiS-MQV6QwM
>Boulez hated Tchaikovsky's music. When he assumed the music directorship of the New York Philharmonic in 1971, his contract specifically stated that he would not be required to conduct any of this composer's music !shiii
>>130865613Checks out. Boulez is the most soulless, inexpressive, modernist MIDI-conductor who has ever lived, whereas Tchaikovsky's orchestral music is actually the peak of expression, no one rivals him in that aspect.
>>130865841Well, one of those statements is true at least.
>>130865848Oh, which one do you think isn't true?
This is your monthly reminder Tchaikovsky has eleven (11[!!]) hours of solo piano music, and you should listen to it allhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhPeJmCMgrM&list=OLAK5uy_mXe0PPUqjYuJvv8iEpKVNbAeH0_cmp8ss&index=54review,https://theclassicreview.com/album-reviews/review-tchaikovsky-complete-works-for-solo-piano-valentina-lisitsa/
>so, what kind of music do you like, anon?>classical>no you don'thow do you respond? namedropping some composers? listing the pieces you had for breakfast that morning?
forgive the dumb Q but is Schubert's Winterreise pronounced with the 'v' sound at the start?
>>130866040yes, the German for winter is Winter
>>130866051thx
>>130865988Why would I respond? That guy is obviously not interested in conversation.
>>130866063He's challenging you in front of your family and friends and girl and his girl. Can't get mogged.
>>130866069How is he mogging me by being antisocial?
>>130866078He's calling you a poser! a fraud! a charlatan!
>>130866079Well my family and friends and girl know what I listen to, so why should I care about some idiot?
>>130866084So you end up mogged and your girl loses 20% attraction for you. Good work.
>>130866089What kind of situation would I even be in where all of my family and friends are there and then also some random guy?
>>130866095If I wanted to paint the setting, fill in the mise-en-scene, I would have.
Debussyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62EPSD_d7m8&list=OLAK5uy_l3-b2lwPmjl0Ufl23IoX7UWkjkbqbZHDg&index=17
>>130865900>LisitsaJesus Christ, anon
>>130866142?you don't appreciate her rags-to-riches, literally bet the house on making it story?
>>130863758Scriabin
This part in Lohengrin blows me away every timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJGw3tMJbq4&list=OLAK5uy_mFrJv9EJcOV98Cp02JUMdaM8vn8b4vshg&index=19
>>130861759Right, so we've gone from "it's the exact same Schmieder catalogue" to "influence is plausible", which is a much vaguer and weaker claim. But that doesn't prove convenience, laziness or that "the damage was already done". The NBA still made its own editorial choices and one of those choices was to keep the solo violin and cello works under chamber music. The fact remains that the aforementioned Bach works are widely accepted as chamber music. My guess would be that this has something to do with the specifics and evolution of Baroque instrumental genres. But we're just guessing at this point so it makes sense to end the discussion here.
>>130866148what does that have to do with the music?
>>130866148If only any of that translated into playing good...
>>130866189>>130866195just in case your issue was personal. i know there's been some controversy over some of her comments on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.and i don't know, she seems plenty fine to me. and not like you have many options for complete Tchaikovsky sets anyhow. keeping that mind, the playing in the set is more than satisfactory.
>>130866200For some reason, I'm really not that interested in the piano music of non-pianist composers. I mean, he obviously knew how to play the thing, but he proclaimed "I am not a [concert] pianist" so that's good enough for me.
>>130866220i guess that's fair. i see it more as he cared about the genre enough to write eleven hours worth of material for it, so for those who love Tchaikovsky like me, it merits at least checking out (and i already know i love The Seasons and the two piano sonatas)
AI texts are easy to spot. How can you tell? No careless mistakes, nothing that jumps out at you, but in return zero rigorous thought. One block, then another block, then basically the same thing again, just reshuffled a little. And the people doing this won’t be able to write or think properly in a few years, that much is obvious.AI is essentially just a huge library, nothing more, but one where you get everything instantly, with no source references. The operators couldn’t care less where it comes from. You have no control over whether the information is correct, whether it’s Russian disinformation—as if disinformation weren’t everywhere. AI spits something out with the tone of absolute conviction, and when you say that’s not true, it says: Yes, you’re right, that’s not true. And people rely on that.In music and art, fakes used to take a lot of effort; Hans Franke stole whole symphonies. For AI it’s no problem, it changes things a little and that’s it. And then you get characters like the female pastor who has AI write her sermon and says it’s still hers, because after all she told the AI what to write, and then proofread it. You’re the controller, so you’re the creator. Very interesting. But there's zero creativity.A composer who uses AI is untrustworthy, is no composer. A journalist who writes with AI is a fraud. Simple as that. There’s nothing to puzzle over. AI will never replace Beethoven or Schubert, never Bruckner or Brahms. But all mediocrity, yes, that will disappear. That’s the good news: the end of mediocrity. We already allowed it with streaming, copyright doesn’t interest anyone anymore, it’s all just a pretense. Just like our civil liberties were gone during Corona, that’s how we just let it happen.AI has long been disenchanted, but we’re working on making it hold us firmly in its grip.
>>130866341The funny thing is, I cab't tell whether this is anti-AI mob rage pasta or AIslop itself, it certainly is not your original post.>it changes things a little and that’s it.That's not how AI works.Also it is guaranteed to "replace" absolutely any music, given enough time.
What's the deal with the Here Comes the Bride theme? Wagner outright invents it for na opera and weddings the world over adopt it for the most important moment of a person's life just like that? How did this happen?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsiDgHA-v28&list=OLAK5uy_mFrJv9EJcOV98Cp02JUMdaM8vn8b4vshg&index=28
>>130866410How is AI going to replace live music?
>>130866426Humanoid robots. Enhanced intelligence > transhumanism, in which case "human" will no longer be the same.
>>130866426Please don't engage with AI-obsessed techfags, they're retarded cattle. It's a waste of your time.
>>130866492Ironic coming from anti-AI mobster.
>>130866492now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NEAe0XZBRA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnFbYWViRUI
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy9BOgXWXyo
>>130867356Who's that boy?
>>130867663Scriabi's server
>>130867663Scriabin I guess. the prompt I entered should have specified more plot and character details.
rate and hate.
>>130867760next thread pic just dropped.
>>130867760Looks like Poemes are back on the menu boys!
>>130867663Scriabin's son, Julian
>>130867760Anything Scriabin is good enough for me
>>130867760Needs a bigger moustache
PerfectionBest Bach pianist of all time, period, don't argue.
I wonder if people before recorded media were forced to have an excellent memory for music. Like you'd only get to hear Mozart's Don Giovanni or Beethoven's 9th Symphony one time in your life but you're able to sing melodies from them until your deathbed.
>>130868593Did you forget people could also buy instruments and sheet music?
>>130868593I'm pretty sure they weren't humming symphonies or operas but rather music for solo instruments. Piano sonatas and whatnot.
heard the local fentanyl addict humming Ligeti's Requiem between his nodding out
>>130868624>>130868593Song and piano miniatures were the most popular kind of music in domestic settings in the 19th century. Popular arias from operas would've been sung in piano versions too.
>>130868655Yeah, arias and lieder certainly would have been committed to memory and hummed/sung, but I wonder how popular they really were. That stuff was probably known mostly to the privileged class.
>>130868615>>130868624>>130868655Must've been a decent living being a full-time arrangement composer.
>>130868706>That stuff was probably known mostly to the privileged classNo. The 19th century saw the rise and cultural domination of the bourgeoisie/middle class.
>>130868706They were popular with the new middle class more than the old upper class.
>A different friend worked in the classical department at a Tower Records in a major American city. One morning, he and his colleague arrived at work to a large box and a message saying “Levine’s Mahler 3 is out today. Put up this cardboard display for the LPs and the life-sized cutout of Levine at the top of the escalator before opening.” Many of you may still remember the halcyon days of record stores, where the classical managers presided over their departments with equal parts commanding knowledge and total authority. So it was in this Tower. These guys were used to deciding which Mahler 3’s were worthy of pushing based on their knowledge of 100 other versions. Their view was that Levine was not a good Mahler conductor, that his 3rd probably sucked, and they were not, in any case, going to race to put up all that tacky display stuff until they’d at least listened to it. Well, the shop opened at 10, and at 10:15, James Levine came scooting up the escalator looking for the life-sized cardboard cut-out of himself. He got to the top, stopped and stood there, his eyes narrowed, looking in vain for the missing shrine to his genius. He then turned around and left.>Minutes later, my friend got a phone call from Tower’s corporate office. Levine had called his manager, the manager had called the record company, and the record company had called Tower. This is how fast things can move when a ‘great man’s’ ego doesn’t get the feeding he thinks it deserves. The air was blue as the national head of the classical division explained in no uncertain terms that this was a world-class screw up, and that they had exactly 45 minutes to get the display up. They, of course agreed.>They then took the LP bin, the cardboard cut-out and all the Mahler 3 LPs out to the dumpster and threw them all away. Sure enough, a little while later, Jimmy came up the escalator, looked around briefly with an even darker expression, then turned and left.
>>130868762>On March 12, 2018, the Metropolitan Opera announced that Levine had been fired. The Met's investigation found Levine had "engaged in sexually abusive and harassing conduct towards vulnerable artists in the early stages of their careers".[93][94][95]>Levine sued the Metropolitan Opera in New York State Supreme Court for breach of contract and defamation on March 15, 2018, three days after the company fired him, seeking more than $5.8 million in damages.[96] The Met denied Levine's allegations.[96] A year later, a New York State Supreme Court judge dismissed most of Levine's claims, but ruled that the Met and its attorney had made defamatory statements.[97]>The Metropolitan Opera and Levine announced a settlement on undisclosed terms in August 2019.[98] In September 2020, the size of the payout was indirectly exposed by annual disclosure statements required for nonprofits; Levine had received $3.5 million in the settlement. It is speculated he was able to negotiate such a large settlement due to the lack of a morals clause in his contract with the Met.[6]aka>get fired for gross sexual misconduct and abuse (some articles outright say rape) over the course of decades>sue and receive $3.5millionso this is the power of J culture
Shostakovichhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsQZZ5kMoYY&list=OLAK5uy_maVlyNQUl_kAAVE8VeV1J-DK0UWz5I2Rg&index=1
>>130866618>no u
>>130865988I'd say "yes I do I have been playing it for years even"
>>130865841Tchaikovsky is too expressive (gay) and Boulez is too soulless (asexual)
>>130868383Feinberg rapes that bitch before Cortot blows her into pieces. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNmf7_ixqQINo one needs Hewitt.
Angela Hewitt's Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh0hSdBO_xU&list=OLAK5uy_ni3h-jKGDtWay1V7HRcTQ0P1USReJp1vA&index=14
Is there anything that even comes close to the Swan Theme? It's a piece that always brings a tear to my eyes, even though I've probably heard it 50 times or so. The way the soft vulnerable oboe solo is suddenly engulfed in a sea of mighty brass and strings is just... amazing.
Which Figaro to listen to today...
>>130869357How about Suitner?
>>130869404guess I can peep!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No4cXCYjD40&list=OLAK5uy_mQDQQCoR5004RaoYQ-aemNX7SJnKd6pCA&index=35thanks
>>130869357Muti, as always
>>130869226Hipster nonsenseNot only does that sound like it was recorded with a fucking toilet, the performance is not as sharp as Hewitt's.
let's try Aldo Ciccolini's Beethoven Piano Sonatas cyclehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMtC-0x7pZA&list=OLAK5uy_lkrgj4Vkaf9wHujlTSpfTcL2QkP3OOzV4&index=5
>>130869497This is the only one I'll listen to anymore. It doesn't get any better imo.
>>130869474>Hipster nonsenseYou mean hisster
>>130865988>I do, have since childhood, and not just>I also love jazz, prog rock and brutal metal>all in all, I'm a difficult audience, I guess
>>130869474The most delusional post of the year. That is easily the top 1 greatestest Bach recording anyone has ever made. Arguably one of the best Cortot performance. Completely mogs Hewitt's entire career and she herself would agree:Angela Hewitt: "Twenty years ago, somebody gave me Alfred Cortot's 1930s recording of Chopin's preludes and impromptus. I had never heard anything like it. There is such an eloquence in the phrasing, an unaffected freedom in the rhythm- and he did it with such economy of movement. It's impossible to imitate; one can just marvel at it. His beautiful sound was probably helped by the pianos of the time, which were less harsh and more distinctive; but he had, in addition, an elegance and charm that is increasingly rare in modern life... My piano teacher's piano teacher worked with Cortot, and he introduced me to Cortot's editions Chopin, Liszt, Schumann. These days, the tendency is to return to the basic notes of the ur-text: it's somewhat frowned upon to use editions containing personal interpretative ideas - a shame, because we lose out on many important performance traditions. Cortot's writings were full not just of technical ideas and exercises, but of inspired suggestions as to what exactly was going on in the music, literary connotations and other insights. Cortot helped me realise how free you can be." You're deaf.
>>130869603Nice
>>130869611>That is easily the top 1 greatestest Bach recording anyone has ever madeHyperbole always makes me giggle So, in other words, Hewitt took inspiration from a great performance and benefitted from VASTLY superior recording technology.The sonics alone are enough to give Hewitt's recordings the win, but of course hipsters like yourself will disagree.
>>130869531
Do you think composers would prefer hiss recordings over modern recordings?
>>130869664>Hyperbole always makes me giggleIt's not a hyperbole this time. Cortot's cadenza in the brandenburg is easily the best Bach piano playing.Alfred Brendel on Cortot playing the cadence of the Bach 5th Brandenburg Concerto: >"About the best piano playing I have ever heard!"Is Brendel also exaggerating? Nope.>Hewitt took inspiration from a great performance Doesn't mean anything. She even says it's "impossible to imitate.">VASTLY superior recording technology.Childish remark.
do not reply to hyperbole posters
Cope poster above
>>130869713If we're talking relatively similar performances that match their intentions, the answer is clear: not only would they prefer the best sound quality, they'd be absolutely awestruck by it. Imagine Beethoven listening to an audiophile quality recording of his 9th on a top-tier system.
>>130869737>It's not a hyperbole this time. Cortot's cadenza in the brandenburg is easily the best Bach piano playingYou said it was the best Bach recording, which is a laughably hyperbolic notion. Please avoid any further attempts at moving the goalposts, anon.>She even says it's "impossible to imitate."Lots of things are impossible to immitate. Doesn't make them the greatest.>Childish remarkFacts are childish? Interesting take.
>>130869794>You said it was the best Bach recordingCorrect. It is the best Bach recording. That is not at all in conflict with what I said in my previous post. Please use your brain before replying.>Lots of things are impossible to immitate. Doesn't make them the greatest.wut
>>130869802>That is not at all in conflict with what I said in my previous postYou said the cadenza was the greatest Bach piano playing, suggesting you were just referring to recorded piano works. Perhaps I misinterpreted, but even if you were just referring to piano works, it would still be a laughably hyperbolic notion.>wutWhahuuh?
>>130869863>You said the cadenza was the greatest Bach piano playing,It is.It is also the best Bach recording overall. Not even Feinberg, Casals, Stokowski, Mengelberg, Furtwangler, Enescu, Busoni, etc. come close - all of which are the best Bach interpreters in their own right. Cortot's rubato and tone is the most pure, flawless representation of what Bach tried to convey through his manuscripts.
>>130869902You keep making blanket, superficial assertions (many of which aren't even coming from yourself) as if this is somehow reinforcing your case.I'm guessing you're the resident pseud who lurks these threads 24/7.
I really love how cute this piece ishttps://music.youtube.com/watch?v=U3G-qQt-kNA&list=OLAK5uy_lEURsuyo5u-0ED2SVBi1dA2HaPLzJJmm4
Found the whole Bohm beethoven cycle vinyl set at a flea market for like 10 bucks. What a steal.
Are there any eroica-like symphonies? Short expositions and large sprawling developments? I notice often that even longer symphonists like Bruckner have relatively short development sections proportional to the exposition and recap
>>130870036Nice. I've actually never heard that cycle.Check out the following (my favs) if you haven't already:Blomstedt/Gewandhaus Vänska/Minnesota The Chailly cycle is pretty good too, but it's a bit too speedy for me at times.
Hey kinda new to classical musical, I really liked some of Erik Satie's work. I'm not sure this counts but this piece I also quite enjoy Brandon Acker's interpretation of Verano Porteño. I enjoy when classical music kinda works off one riff and recontextualizes in a bunch of different ways.
>>130870094would be nice to get some recommendations based on that sorry kinda boneheaded and forgot to finish my train of thought
>>130869931Just stating facts. When I quote, I always say so.
>>130870094>>130870104Listen to Bach preludes & fugues, Chopin waltzes, preludes, nocturnes, Schubert impromptus, Grieg lyric pieces.Then move to Beethoven sonatas, Schubert sonatas and Chopin ballades.
>>130870057Are there any symphonists other than Beethoven and Bruckner worth listening to? I thinks not.>>130870094>I enjoy when classical music kinda works off one riff and recontextualizes in a bunch of different waysAs far as symphonies go, Bruckner is your man. >>130870114If you're not smart enough to know the difference between facts and opinion, you're not worth any more of my time.
>>130870094>I enjoy when classical music kinda works off one riff and recontextualizes in a bunch of different ways.Bach's Chaconne and Passacaglia. Performances Grumiaux and Karl Richter respectively
>>130870146>Are there any symphonists other than Beethoven and Bruckner worth listening to?Talk about a waste of time. Both of them are made completely redundant by Mahler.
Beethoven's 9th and 3rd are his best works
>>130870169The most quintessentially Jewish composer. Bombastic, neurotic, overemotional, rambling and goofy.Although I have to give him credit for one thing. He was relatively successful in capturing the spectrum of human experience - unfortunately much of human experience is pretty fucking awful, and he had a tendency to labor over the not-so-pleasant aspects.
>>130870246Oh, I forgot, Schumann also mogs Bay hoo wan and Brock nerd.Canonically, objectively, it's:Mahler > Schumann > rest of the Austro-Germans.
>>130870094the recommendations already given to you are goodI'll just add two things, that are obvious to long time classical lovers, but may not be to you:- some works, you'll have to learn to listen, and may not appreciate at first, but would if you listened to them further, or later down your path (some may also just never work for you at all, despite most recommending them: just don't necessarily get discouraged at first)- some recordings of the same work will make sense to you, while others absolutely won't (for instance, I generally like dry, analytical recordings that are fast, and purposely search for those even for such things as Mahler where most will likely prefer a lush sound, which I always find confusing): so don't limit yourself to listening a single conductor or interpret, just because you have seen it recommended by most classical lovers; search for various styles of interpretation, until you learn your own tendencies, and can search more efficiently for the kind of recordings you'll like most (we don't all like nor search for the same things, at all)
>>130870257Unbelievably bad taste.Are you the dipshit who called Beethoven "soccer mom music" a while back on here? I'll never forget that. Genuinely one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen on 4chan.
>>130870276Terrible projection, in both ways.
Symphonies under 50 minutes are not worth listening to
>>130870309that shit is how you end up listening to droolingtardly slow conductors, lol
>>130870286Lol I thought it was you. You have a very distinct brand of pseudo-intellectualism.
>>130870335thank you sister
>>130870324Bitch I know you ain't talkin' about me.
>>130870362talking to celibidache would likely have been unpleasantbecause listening to his laughable excuses would surely have taken far too much time too
>>130870169average 16 year old classical poster
>>130870429He's hit-or-miss for me. I like most of his Bruckner, and I love his Requiems and Mass in B Minor. His Beethoven is just ridiculous.
I competely agree with Glenn Gould's take on The Rite of Spring.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW3nyib0Z8w00:10:00 mark>I find Le Sacre de Printemps a very offensive work. I don't find it a good jest. I'm sure it's effectively presented on the stage. I've never seen it as a ballet, I regret to say. But I don't find it an important work from any aspect that one can judge it musically. I think it's an important work only in the sense of it's acting as a kind of therapy to the admittedly high temperature of late Romantic culture at the time in which it was written, but I don't think it's an important work of itself, starting from within itself.
>>130870552>it's acting as a kind of therapy to the admittedly high temperature of late Romantic culture at the time in which it was writtenTruer words have never been spoken.
>>130870552>I find Le Sacre de Printemps a very offensive workquit not as offensive as the noises gould made while playing, lol
>>130870459Bruckner is for children.Mahler is for men.
>>130870623>Mahler is for men Lol what an odd thing to say about music so emotionally erratic
>>130870658It's only erratic if you lack senses.
Romantic neuroticism is for children.Baroque reason is for men.
>>130869531>fortepianoanon we've been over this
>>130870884Yes, we've been over the fact that you're easily the most tasteless person who frequents this general.
>>130870923:OWell that's an escalation.
>>130870935Lol if you're not the Mahler autist, I apologize.Still, not liking the fortepiano makes you inferior to me.
>>130870963Everyone here is a Mahler autist
>>130871002Considering Mahler is a giga-kike, I find that very hard to believe
>>130870884and then we've gone back to it, because that's what those compositions were made forand it's beautiful
>>130871002I most generally love Mahlerbut not really his symphony no. 2I know the context, I know what he's doing, I don't even find it downright shit, and the ideas even speak to me, but that's it: I never really want to listen to itthere, I said it
>>130867760This looks like a show about a paedophile
I had a dream I was interviewing Glen Gould and I asked him why he played like that, cause some people didn't like it. I can't remember what he said but he was a little annoyedHe was also playing Beethoven and it sounded like Berg or Schoeneberg or somehting it was quite thrilling
>>130871098Hm, interesting. Do you keep a dream diary?
>>130871049That's alright. Everyone thinks Mahler 2 is the most epic symphony ever, then they grow up and listen to the rest of Mahler.
>>130871118No, it was a good dream though, I was smoking weed, crack and taking qualudes and arguing with Jews
>>130871128I was already of that opinion as a teen in the 90's, desuI don't hate it, but it has never been my thing, and never willand I particularly love his no. 3, even more so by Jansons and Concertgebouwthere, I said that too
>>130867356He has a lot of good preludes that man. Preludes to what? I don't know
>>130871196preludes are preludes to the rest of your life, anonalwayshence why you gotta choose them carefully
Scelsihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnWoAHULAkk
In Meistersinger's harmonies, one hears the echoes of Bach's intricate counterpoint, as if the ghostly specter of the Baroque master had momentarily forsaken the organ in favor of the opera house.Richard Wagner once said of Johann Sebastian Bach’s music: “That made me what I am. My unending melody is predestined in it.” In Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, Wagner demonstrated to post-Tristan sceptics his mastery of traditional musical forms. Sonorous chorales, an overture which Wagner described as 'applied Bach', a fugally-inspired toccata, an unforgettable quintet and counterpoint worthy of Bach all feature in this magnificent score celebrating the marriage of inspiration and tradition.The whole of Die Meistersinger— shaping itself before our very ears — is Wagner's answer to his critics, a song offered them to meet their specifications, filled with all the things they demanded and found wanting in his other work: diatonic structures, counterpoint, singable tunes, ensembles, folk dances worthy of Weber and chorales worthy of Bach.
>>130871118 I asked him why he didn't play Liszt as well and he said because Liszt was too good and he couldn't improve on him
>>130870094Theme and variations, passacaglias, the list goes on...
>>130871196>Preludes to what?Truly the most romantic of ideas, full of yearning for the unknown; inconsolable longing.
ok I give up there is no perfect Bruckner 8 everyone fucks something upthe best are Jochum and Wand both with Berlin
>>130870552Truth Nuke
>>130870552I still don't get what the jest was?
Listened to Shostakovich's first as the first symphony from him I listen to. I felt it was a bit meek. Feel like he still needed some time to figure his style out. Should I skip to his 4th or 5th and come back to 2 and 3 later? I know that his 4th is where his Mahlerian influences start to really show and his 5th is his first big success.
Shostakovich was the central figure of 20th century classical music.
>>130872242>Should I skip to his 4th or 5th and come back to 2 and 3 later?If it's your first time, yeah.
>>130872285His music was dull, derivative and mostly irrelevant compared to composers like Messiaen and Stravinsky. Hell, even Philip Glass had a bigger impact.His string quartets are amazing tho.
>>130872367>d mostly irrelevant compared to composers like Messiaen and Stravinsky. Hell, even Philip Glass had a bigger impact.yeah and look where that got usAt least Shostakovich and the like knew how to combine modernist elements with accessible, good-sounding music.
>>130872448Personally I don't find his symphonies particularly modern. His string quartets, sure, but the symphonies mostly just sound like wonky marching band music to me.
>>130872367did any of them write a new WTC fit for the modern age? I rest my case.
>>130872302I see. Should I do his 4th first or go by premiere order?
>>1308725084th if you don't mind some unconventionality, 5th if you want something completely accessible to get you to love him right away.
>>130872505He wrote a modernist WTC? Was not aware of that.
>>130872527https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDbTtD0MEvcor a sample,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlPC9CNsafU
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4kYd3qeiCE
>>130869447hmm okayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1emMSSgtN8&list=OLAK5uy_lVbEotvYChtvjDyBSpXSYRahuUTKyBoYA&index=1
>>130872515Depends on which way it is unconventional. I dislike unconventional structure in the scenario that it makes a movement lose it's sense of unity, but I don't dislike unconventional harmony, melody or instrumentation.
>>130872571Just do the 5th first since it has that classical symphonic structure, then do the 4th after.
>>130872595Sounds like a good plan. I tend to listen to symphonies communally with a friend whose more staunchly anti-modernist, so it might be a better choice for him too.
>open library>ctrl+f '*recitative*'>deletethere, every piece is improved
>>130861221I thought that's what the Boulez 8th is for?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNA3EQmOo90&list=OLAK5uy_mb3oPotZ-3cYlT8ZKojT5H5mCo7FPzoeU&index=1>>130871817*teleports behind you*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF3pqzy3Q-A&list=OLAK5uy_lAkehvFkLvCFB0PZvxGo_XTNZm9H8lHG8&index=1
>>130872633uhhh, based department?
>>130872539I like that a lot
>>130872515>>130872508>>130872302>>130872242>>130872610>>130872595Listen to his 7th next. Peak Shosty writing.
>>130872791the 8th and 11th are better.
>>130872802bodied that freak
NEW>>130872806>>130872806>>130872806
