Albeniz editionhttps://youtu.be/7BxWj96lYGkThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>131603348
>Albeniz I actually almost finally listened to some of his music the other day but it'll probably languish in my backlog for a while longer. Does he have anything besides the solo piano stuff?
>>131633187He has a piano concerto, some songs, a few orchestral pieces and a smattering of operas.
Any Bach man in?
>makes your composition good
>>131633228My queen.
>>131633224just us shartman
>>131633228https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=4IZBX5QIb5k
>>131633266Argerichsisters...we lost...
Who's on the album?
>>131633266not gonna watch the video but it is true that youtube commenters have no fucking idea how to use terms like virtuoso or technique. see metalheads.
>>131633504Moshart
>>131633504Rachmaninoff
it's pronounced "bachmaninoff"
Fartmaninoff
BETAhooven
Beethoven was a literal incel.Mozart won.
Mendelssohn.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PNo7CIyiv0&list=PLa1rC97wRkZgnEyfYhBmfIB2e41PXejfT&index=9
>>131633504your favorite composer
>>131634138Hm... this interpretation is a bit too "zippy" for my liking...
I've really been enjoying Mendelsussy's Lobgesang recently, might have to check out his Paul and Elijah
how do i learn to appreciate the maddening repetition of mozart
>>131635709sorry, meant to say schubert
>>131635709>>131636000sorry, meant to say beethoven
>>131635709>>131636000>>131636079No need to be so pedantic, lads. Just say classical period sucks and get over it, we understand. We are in full agreement.
>>131634558Y'know what's funny? I love Paulus and Elijah immensely but have never actually listened to the second symphony/Lobgesang. I should get on that. Asap.
>>131634138>>131634395Reminder: always avoid Kurt Masurhe's a third-rate budget conductor
>>131634168>beethoven and scriabinhmmmmmm, doubt.
Currently requesting best recordings/conductors OF:>Beethoven Piano Concerto 3>Mozart Piano Concerto 12>Liszt Piano Concerto 2Thankee-sai.
>>131637493>>Beethoven Piano Concerto 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yUbXHDFh68&list=OLAK5uy_mijv99SkyDdaw-4tuCAMYQyi99qgNV6pM&index=10>>Mozart Piano Concerto 12https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PqnF8mh5G4&list=OLAK5uy_l9FPxuqaYccKWa_Ki2Jojt6PEo5YMDgJQ&index=20>>Liszt Piano Concerto 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K_6alK-XfE&list=OLAK5uy_n55KO4L5IJlvhBvrBj8OgeC0a8ngbJrkE&index=4If you don't care for them, let me know, there's always alternates. Also, just to be clear, with Beethoven's piano concertos, just about every good pianist has recorded them at some point, meaning there's so many good sets, you could literally listen to a new one each time you listen to them and you wouldn't run out of good ones for years. I only bring this up because you asked for 'best' and while the Fleisher/Szell set is essential, I wouldn't want you to think trying other sets at some point isn't worth your time.Anyway, enjoy!
>>131633223Which is exactly what I often do, but then there's some here who will go "oh, you should only bother with his severely aurally compromised hiss set from 80 years ago and don't bother with any else because none of them are any good"Which is fine if anyone personally feels that way, but last thing I want is for the newbie to try the hiss set and go "oh man, I can't stand this audio quality, but since none other are worth trying, guess these pieces aren't for me". I want as many people to come to enjoy and love classical music as possible.And another small, partial motivation, one of the other reason I like recommending modern sets is to show all of the repertoire is still being recorded and released everyday. That this isn't some niche, dead genre like we're all playing some video game that lost support twenty years ago and it's hanging on thanks to a private server we personally host.
>>131637493Mozart 12 is Zacharias
Augustin Hadelich with FRSO play Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WVIxx8EfdM
New recording of Brahms' late piano music just dropped by one Anna Fedorova, get it while it's hot.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPL4JpTeAQg&list=OLAK5uy_lmJi4JdtWJ9L2HtqwWk8Lg9zFBtUoJWNA&index=1>Anna Fedorova presents the late keyboard works of Brahms. 'These works feel as if he is speaking to us in a more private voice than ever before. The music is deeply personal, full of tenderness, nostalgia, love, and quiet reflection' says Fedorova. 'His lifelong bond with Clara Schumann remained a central part of his inner world. She was among the first to see these manuscripts, and her presence seems to quietly accompany them.' Op. 117 are three sets of melodies without words. Of Op. 118, Clara wrote: 'It is simply marvellous how your inner self seems to bubble, shine and whisper, constantly imbued with the grandeur and depth of your ideas!' With Op. 119, the keyboard seems once again to contain an entire orchestra, just like the early works that the young Brahms had presented to Robert Schumann forty years earlier.
>>131637601As much as people say that old recording are expressed in ways that the composers wanted it to be, I also think that the composers didn't want a loud hiss drowning out the softer parts at a certain level
Palestrina a cutie, no wonder why he had a sugar momma to support himhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRfF7W4El60&list=RDBRfF7W4El60&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLQD9_wQQQ&list=RDFNLQD9_wQQQ&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yd5EE0hAB8&list=RD0yd5EE0hAB8&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv9OsfBKelE&list=RDVv9OsfBKelE&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhLjL0bjMj0&list=RDXhLjL0bjMj0&start_radio=1
>>131637867bruh, i'm sure they would have cared way more about the actual performance than an easily ignored ambient noise
I don't get the whole "composer intent" thing anyway. Shifting practices and individual interpretation is intrinsic to the field of classical music. I mean, yeah, composers no doubt had an ideal vision of the music, and many wrote specific directions on the sheet, but they also knew performers were gonna take their own liberties. I'm sure when Beethoven performed Mozart's music he didn't care about what Mozart intended. So long as the music is working and people are enjoying it, I'm sure they'd be happy.
now playingstart of Schumann: Symphony No. 1 in B-flat Major, Op. 38 "Spring"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGdsF1f_I0c&list=OLAK5uy_kEZfRs02FXu3nf6Cz3J_fscG4WCo0Twts&index=2start of Schumann: Symphony No. 2 in C Major, Op. 61https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOaZUm_qmvU&list=OLAK5uy_kEZfRs02FXu3nf6Cz3J_fscG4WCo0Twts&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kEZfRs02FXu3nf6Cz3J_fscG4WCo0Twts
mood: seeking to understand the musical architecture of Beethoven's Hammerklavier
Mahler 2 is too long and overstays its welcome.
>>131638352I used to feel that way but now I've learned to love the long, winding finale. Same with the finale of the third.
>>131638114Individual interpretation and respect for the composer’s intentions are not mutually exclusive. As the pianist-composer Samuel Feinberg put it, the interpreter both “realizes his connection to the composer’s intentions” and “realizes himself as an artistic personality.”Nor does knowing that performers will take liberties mean approving of those liberties. Beethoven’s letter to Czerny of 12 February 1816 apologizes for a public rebuke while maintaining his objection to alterations in performance. Schumann’s Advice to Young Musicians likewise explicitly warns against altering good composers’ works or adding fashionable ornaments. “They’d be happy as long as people enjoyed it” is therefore a stupid presumption. Let's not even get into Wagner or Gluck's thoughts on interpretation of their works.And even if Beethoven played Mozart very individualistically, that would not establish that he didn’t care what Mozart intended. Freedom within an understanding of the work is different from indifference to it. The alternatives aren’t mechanical obedience and anything-goes: one can take the composer seriously without pretending that the evidence dictates one uniquely correct performance.That aside, I would say a great deal of the issue with modern performances isn't so much the interpretations themselves per se, but rather their total lack of technique or idiomatic style or practice. For example, a modern soprano simply cannot perform Brünnhilde to an acceptable standard. We do not even need to go as far as interpretation, we can simply stop there. >>131638256Have you read Rosen?
>>131638080Classical snobs tend to overrate the old-as-dirt reference recordings. It's just hipster posturing, for the most part.>heh, you think Angela Hewitt's Bach is good??>well, listen to this sloppy ass performance that Sam Steinbergfeldowitz managed to convince me is objectively the most sublime performance of all time >I know it sounds like it was recorded inside a toilet by Varg Vikernes, but it just captures the E S S E N C E of the music so well... at least that's what David Goldmanfeinmanberg told me
>>131638671>hipster posturing>widely acclaimed reference recordings?
>>131638711he wrote all of that out to make a point about jews apparently, logic was clearly a secondary concern.
>>131638711They're widely acclaimed by classical snobs, no one else. Even most trained musicians who've listened to a ton of recordings to prepare for a performance aren't gonna name some ancient recording as their favorite.It's fedorahipster shit, deal with it.
>>131638732Mmmyes, indubitably, good sir
>>131638811>Even most trained musicians who've listened to a ton of recordings to prepare for a performance aren't gonna name some ancient recording as their favorite.Diapson D'or often does boxsets of notable historical performances and asks modern performers, critics, and virtuosi what their favorite performances are and puts them in the set. For example, here's the Beethoven set they did a few years back. Lots of modern conductors choosing very historical performances as their favorties:Symphony No. 1:Arturo Toscanini, '39 (chosen by Jérémie Rhorer)Bruno Walter, '58 (also chosen by Jérémie Rhorer)Frans Bruggen, 2011 (chosen by Gaetan Naulleau)Symphony No. 2:Weingartner, '38 (chosen by Pablo Heras-Casado)Toscanini, '51 (chosen by Christian Merlin)Symphony No. 3:Karajan, '52 (chosen by Patrick Szersnovicz)Erich Kleiber, '50 (chosen by Yannick Nézet-Séguin)Symphony No. 4:Schuricht, '58 (chosen by Jonathan Bellman)Krips, '53 (chosen by Rémy Louis)Symphony No. 5:Leibowitz, '61 (chosen by John Eliot Gardiner)Karajan, '48 (chosen by Nikolaus Harnoncourt)Symphony No. 6:Erich Keliber, '53 (chosen by Nicolas Derny)Mengelberg, '37 (chosen by David Zinman)Symphony No. 7:Reiner, '59 (chosen by Piotr Kaminski)Toscanini, '36 (chosen by Paavo Jarvi)Symphony No. 8:Bernstein, '63 (chosen by Daniel Harding)Scherchen, '54 (chosen by Ivan Alexandre)Symphony No. 9:Furtwängler, '42 (chosen by Simon Rattle)Furtwängler, '51 (chosen by Nicholas Cook)Schuricht, '58 (chosen by Alain Pâris)'
>>131638825>which historical performance is your favorite?>*chooses old performance*Lol who'da thought
>>131638847It wasn't exclusive to historical performances, though. There's a 2011 performance chosen there. It was just about which performance they considered ideal / favorite.
Daniel Barenboim on Wilhelm Furtwängler>“He is a role model for everything.”Stephen Hough on Alfred Cortot>“There are artists who delight listeners with their wild and daring individuality; there are others who uncover the written score with reverence; there are few who can do both. Cortot had a vision which went beyond the academic or the theatrical to some wider horizon of creativity from whence the composers themselves might well have drawn inspiration.”Alfred Brendel on Alfred Cortot>“The one pianist who equally satisfies my mind, my senses, my emotions.”Itzhak Perlman on Jascha Heifetz>“The goals he set still remain, and for violinists today it’s rather depressing that they may never really be attained again.”Yunchan Lim on Sergei Rachmaninoff>I was nine when I first heard the recording of [Rachmaninoff] playing Chopin’s Waltz. I was immediately struck by it. For me, he is the greatest, the most consummate musician.”Yunchan Lim on Ignaz Friedman>“I first started listening to the great names when I was 13. My teacher recommended I listen to Friedman. I was walking home on my way back from school, and I was electrified. Shocked. I just stood there on the road, amazed by the freedom of the playing, and then felt almost remorseful about my own playing. That was the moment when I became determined to improve my playing
>>131638855Regardless, it'd be pretty silly to choose, say, Vanska/Minnesota or Blomstedt/Gewandaus or take your pick of recently released, widely acclaimed, pristine recordings of Beethoven's symphonies. Not to mention the copyright issues.So, the (mostly old) conductors who participated in those selections (who make up a tiny fraction of a percentage of the classical community, I might add) choosing old performances doesn't exactly prove anything.
>>131638917You really need to start thinking for yourself, brother. Your dick-riding is just embarrassing.
>>131638928>copyright issuesThey get copyright permissions for recordings that need it. Also, you're moving the goalposts. You said trained musicians aren't going to name ancient recordings as their favorite.>>131638941Again, you said trained musicians aren't going to name ancient recordings as their favorite.
>>131638955>They get copyright permissions for recordings that need itUhh not necessarily. But even if that were the case, it still wouldn't change the fact that putting a bunch of widely acclaimed recordings that were just released 5-10 years ago on a compilation would be a stupid, boring thing to do. >You said trained musicians aren't going to name ancient recordings as their favoriteI said *most* would not. And if I'm wrong, it's because they're too concerned about their classical street cred.
>>131638671woah, hey, chill it on the anti-zionism
>>131638994They're partnered with Qobuz and can easily manage it, given how they included still licensed recordings in that very list.>too concerned about their classical street credSo we're just making up shit now.
>>131638825>>131638917To be fair, a lot of these are boomers still captivated by the older generation, Yunchan Lim notwithstanding, his answer I do find interesting and notable. Anyway, let's see what younger musicians and the up-and-coming generation have to say in some years.
>>131639041>so we're just making up shit nowIt's the truth, and I have a feeling you know it. Any of the symphonies in Blomstedt's Beethoven cycle are better and more enjoyable to listen to than any recording made before 1945. End of discussion. Don't @me again, hisster.
>>131639112You dress up your personal opinions under a veneer of objectivity to escape from making real judgments and it's really irritating. Maybe you should defend your tastes instead of writing fanfiction about other people's.
>>131639185The sonic element alone is enough to make the best contemporary recordings more enjoyable than the best hisster recordings.The musicianship is also generally better - and why wouldn't it be? Things evolve. In terms of consistency and the ability to execute technically demanding passages with extreme precision, the top musicians today are generally better than the top musicians 70 years ago. How do I know this? I CAN HEAR IT. Take Artur Schnabel's Beethoven sonatas, for example - reference recordings that are widely considered TRANSCENDENT and RESPLENDENT and *insert laughable superlative* - they sound like pure fucking dogshit next to Richard Goode or even Emil Gilels.
>>131639112I tried listening to that cycle because people praised its transparency and attention given to Beethoven's metronome markings, but it's really extremely tepid overall, and Blomstedt's idea of orchestral balance seems to just be inverse Karajan, with brass texture that's totally underwhelming. I always go to the 5th's first movement coda as a benchmark of balance, since it's deceptively difficult and most conductors fail. Blomstedt is one of those failures. He is completely soft edged here, his brass faded into the overall texture, while the strings and timpani dominate. This is a big failure since the brass needs to be heard loudly throughout as it's integral to the rhythm not to mention its function as a harmonic anchor. Even Strauss' old as dirt 1928 recording has this basic concept nailed, but you don't even have to go back that far, even Chailly's Gewandhaus cycle mogs Blomstedt here, not to mention many more. Blomsteft's sense of tempo also disappoints, he's stiff beyond belief and he isn't even playing up to Beethoven's standard of tempo. The only thing "interesting" about the recording is an occasional sforzando, but that's only because the rest of the recording is so feminine and under-articulated. The amount of forced diminuendi is irritating.
>>131639294>the musicianship is so much better today!>cites an 83 year old man and a performer that's been dead for 30 years?
>>131639294Musicianship is by no means better today in some absolute generalised sense, at least not in the sense that we have more genius performers; I shouldn't even have to argue this as it's a completely absurd dogmatic statement. Musicianship has improved in the limited sense that e.g. former second-rate orchestras now play at a higher standard, but that doesn't mean we have Heifetzs spawning left and right. Once again, exercise your own judgment instead of relying on these complacent just-so aphorisms about how things naturally get better. I don't even have strong Beethoven sonata opinions although I am sick of hearing you bitch about Schnabel in defiance of many musicians and critics whom you would otherwise quote blithely as credible authorities when it comes to, again, defending your own opinions about how we should be charitable towards the classical music institutions. Either the emperor has no clothes or he does, but make up your mind.
>One day while Goode was at Curtis, he visited the Philadelphia public library and listened to Artur Schnabel’s recording of Beethoven’s “Hammer-klavier” Sonata. “A light bulb went on in my head,” Goode told me. “I said to myself, ‘He plays the music as if he had written it!’ He had a way of discovering meanings that might have eluded us—a delight in the articulation of the unexpected. It was a new vocabulary—a kind of sculpturing, such as you find in certain great paintings. Mantegna’s Roman soldiers seem to be so real that you could almost grasp them. Schnabel did that when he played Beethoven: he made the contours of the music seem tangible.”>The other huge artistic influence on Goode – even though transmitted via his recordings, he never met him in person, was Schnabel himself. “If Serkin was the heat, Schnabel was the light”, he says.
>>131639351Different strokes, I guess. Chailly's cycle is technically impressive, but it's just a bit too fiery for my tastes - sometimes to a laughable degree. If Beethoven's metronome markings were indeed what he'd intended (which, as I'm sure you're aware, is disputed) they're sometimes TOO FUCKING FAST even when slowed down a bit in some cases.I will say that sometimes the brass in Blomstedt's cycle is rather anemic.
>>131639434>but it's just a bit too fiery for my tastesBeethoven is the very definition of an incendiary composer and the 5th in particular is a revolutionary piece. You need as much fire as you can get. Chailly's cycle is not a favorite of mine, I just listed it as a contrast since they're both Gewandhaus cycles. >which, as I'm sure you're aware, is disputedBy retards, maybe.
>>131639400It just reinforces my point even more.>>131639425>Musicianship is by no means better today in some absolute generalised sense, at least not in the sense that we have more genius performersWe do, if for no other reason than because the population has almost tripled.Cool rant tho.
>>131639433Kinda like how Paul Morphy, Alexander Alekhine, and José Raúl Capablanca influenced Kasparov, Carlsen, and Anand, but the first three would get smoked today.
>>131639458>You need as much fire as you can getSpeaking of retards lol
>>131639425>I don't even have strong Beethoven sonata opinions although I am sick of hearing you bitch about Schnabel in defiance of many musicians and critics whom you would otherwise quote blithely as credible authorities when it comes to, again, defending your own opinions about how we should be charitable towards the classical music institutions. Either the emperor has no clothes or he does, but make up your mind.For the record, I've always refrained from saying Schnabel was objectively bad, and in fact I praised his playing at times (though many of his performance of the sonatas I didn't enjoy). My only issues have been with people who think worthwhile Beethoven piano sonatas begin and end with Schnabel. So yes, in counteracting that, I do lay it on a bit thick, the same way I do when defending contemporary musicians because there's so many here who vehemently denounce all of them and consider new recordings not even worth listening to. Somebody's gotta bring some balance.
alright guys, that's enough arguing for today. good showing out there
>>131639462Your point that new musicians are better is reinforced by old musicians?>>131639467Not really. They both do different things better. I think Schnabel had the better feel for tempo and left hand texture. And he's better at highlighting the structure of the music and making you hear what the composer intended through appropriate contrasts. Obviously Goode has less wrong notes, but it comes at the cost of sounding more plain and not bringing out the intended effects of Beethoven's music at times. As Rosen states in his analysis of the Hammerklavier:>>The tempo of the first movement of the Hammerklavier is Allegro, which for Beethoven was always a fast tempo. He never wrote a simple "Allegro" when he meant "Allegro maestoso" or "Allegro ma non troppo." It does not matter what metronome marking a pianist chooses for this movement providing it sounds Allegro; there is no excuse, textual or musical, for making it sound majestic, like Allegro maestoso, and such an effect is a betrayal of the music. It is often done, because it mitigates the harshness of the work, but this harshness is clearly essential to it. A majestic tempo also saps the rhythmic vitality on which the movement depends. As we have seen, the actual material of the work is neither rich nor particularly expressive; it only lives up to its reputation for greatness if its rhythmic power is concentrated. And it is meant to be difficult to listen to.I do give Goode credit in that his tempo rubato avoids the issue many performances make in making the first movement sound too grandiose, but he's still not quite there overall. The effect of the descending thirds and ascending sixths isn't quite there at his tempo.>>131639475If you like Beethoven with the edges taken off, then you do you. I don't like feminine Beethoven, though.>>131639522>people who think worthwhile Beethoven piano sonatas begin and end with SchnabelNo one is saying this here. Who are you phantom boxing?
>>131639522I get where you're coming from. The Schnabel recordings are respectable relative to other recordings that were made at or around the time - I'm sure hearing them back in 1938 was a revelatory experience - but they just don't stand up to the best recordings today.
now playingstart of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4 in F minor, Op. 36 (2024 Remastered, London 1960)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ycndx5lv8A&list=OLAK5uy_l2eFX8P4uqykfA5PKpELu5isyhgp3da4U&index=2start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 5 in E minor, Op. 64 (2024 Remastered, London 1960)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd8oCHGn1d8&list=OLAK5uy_l2eFX8P4uqykfA5PKpELu5isyhgp3da4U&index=6start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6 in B minor, Op. 74 "Pathétique" (2024 Remastered, London 1960)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmjehsEFa3E&list=OLAK5uy_l2eFX8P4uqykfA5PKpELu5isyhgp3da4U&index=9https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l2eFX8P4uqykfA5PKpELu5isyhgp3da4U>These recordings by Evgeny Mravinsky and his Leningrad Philharmonic, taped in the autumn of 1960 while they were on tour in London, are among the absolute classics of the catalog. They are readings of hair-raising intensity--the finale of the Fourth is marked allegro con fuoco, and if you want to know what con fuoco means, all you have to do is listen for a moment. No one else has ever had the nerve, or the ability, to play the music this way. The treatment is very Russian: the extremes are more extreme, the passions more feverish, the melancholy darker, the climaxes louder. In that department, the development section of the first movement of the Pathètique has to be heard to be believed. The sound is remarkably good for the time, a little edgy in the loudest pages but wonderfully present, just like the performances themselves. --Ted LibbeySurprisingly, despite being one of the biggest Tchaikovsky fans here, one who has listened to countless cycles and individual recordings of his wonderful symphonies, I've never actually listened to this classic Mravinsky set. Ormandy's Tchaikovsky is actually the one I started out with. Well, it's finally time.
>>131639587I doubt you've even heard 5% of the "relative recordings made at around the time" lol
>>131639588Better late than never, eh?
Why does late Renaissance suck so much aside from Lassus, Gesualdo, and Monteverdi if you count him?Some of the works you hear from Palestrina, Victoria, Byrd, and Tallis all sound the same and use the same boring cadences. Now compare that to the early Renaissance like Ockeghem, Obrecht, and Josquin or later franco Flemish like Gombert, Cipriano, and Brumel. Don't get me wrong, they use the same musical motifs for sure, but it tends to be more individual compared to the above I mentioned. I feel like I'm wasting my time listening to a Victoria motet or Palestrina mass, when I can listen to Ockeghem, Lassus's Prophetiae Sibyllarum or Gesualdo's Madrigals and sacred music., all works I can tell apart.Does anyone else feel the same way?
>>131639580>Your point that new musicians are better is reinforced by old musicians?Well yes, actually.>As Rosen states...I know this wasn't intended for me, but I just wanted to let you know I genuinely hate you lol>If you like Beethoven with the edges taken off, then you do youYeah, if I feel like I should be watching the Three Stooges running around performing their signature slapstick comedy while listening to Beethoven, the tempo is too damn fast.But hey, you do you too.
>>131639602Lmaololkek I've heard quite a few Also jej
>>131639626I understand. That is a common issue for those with too much estrogen in their system. Good luck on your transition.
>>131639624Mirroring the same decline we're witnessing today. Artistic renaissance NOW
For me, it's Tchaikovsky's Piano Triohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiWBdT4n6Ow
>>131640247That's my Barenboi.
Just short of 22 hours until Aaron Pilsan's recording of Chopin's Etudes comes out, should be good!sample,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnJzDCvJfcs
The best part about finishing a Beethoven piano sonatas cycle is getting to start the next one.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--52njGWKc0&list=OLAK5uy_nEM1vwu96Zk66TXu92G8IVwWHT0qjESxM&index=1
>>131640294I refuse to listen to a man who poses like that.
>>131640418kek I did momentarily cringe too
>>131640402Yeah, it's not the music itself, but a "cycle" by another pianist. Makes you wonder if you like Beethoven at all.
>another thread of solo piano retardation and orchestral faggotryVGH, it gets so lonely being a chamber music chad...
Proko Concerto 2
I love Bach so much bros....>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2rUsZlXFhcc&pp=ygUSR290dGVzIHplaXQganVzc2Vu
>>131640871beautiful
>>131640871...but does Bach love you?
>>131640871I'd be more interested in seeing the blondes kissing than playing this nonsense.
>>131641170Bach lives on through his music, and his music is pure sonic love.>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im-6oM3pJ8M
The fact that there is so much great baroque music, like Scarlatti, Buxtehude, Rameau, yet dilettantes cling to whatever mediocrity Bach shat out every sunday for the church, never fails to amaze me.
>>131633049For me, it's Granada.If you like Albeniz, try Piazzolla.
noobs who cannot into bach never cease to amuse me
>>131638080next time I go to a classical performance I'm going to talk and burp and laugh and cough whenever I want. After all if anyone gets upset it's their fault for not being able to appreciate the work on its own
>>131633266>[8:10]DAMNgruesome mogging
>>131639294>The musicianship is also generally better - and why wouldn't it be?because with conservatory culture primarily acting as a pipeline towards a specialized "profession", the deeply analytical composer-performer tradition is lost. there's an increased division between creative and recreative artist and it leads to modern performances sounding sterile and same-y. Also, you praise Gilels and Blomstedt for being "contemporary" when they were both borne from the same important, historic, tradition that separates them from modern performers.>>131640733i got you senpaihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wx5Wi1x5ts
>>131641904talking, burping, and laughing, and coughing is obviously much worse than tape or surface noise
>>131642129as an additional consideration on "musicianship", there's a reason by the Busch recording of Beethoven's Late Quartets is still celebrated as the gold standard, and it comes down to musicianship.>deeply analytical composer-performer tradition>ensemble play and transparency that is the envy of modern quartets>authentic gut strings>genuine, rhythmically defined spiccato playing that is near impossible to achieve with today's light bowing and steel strings>vibrato used chiefly as an ornament to enliven specific tones, not as a cover for merely approximated intonation, yielding chords that are much purer than those heard in modern performances
>>131641250That is a beautiful sentiment, anon.
>Frisch, mein Froh, noch ist's ja früh!One of the cringiest lines in any libretto.
What is your favorite vocal wagner excerpt
>>131642858We love and respect master Dave here.
>>131642858He means well but he needs toBuy an ad.
>>131642872No I am really not a big fan of his videos and his snarky attitude. Also his videos are filmed in a way that makes it feel like the POV of one of Odysseus's crew mates stuck in the Cyclops cave where he's just standing over you with his big fat hands constantly pushing in your face in and out in and out
Dohnányi's Brahms. Pretty good!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVwYUrF6_go&list=OLAK5uy_kQALCg904sXZudlUgzItXdnariF0OninU&index=1
>>131643065Holy mogged. Anon is going to shit himself lmfaoooo
>>131640554You've been cranky lately, anon. I'm not even gonna dignify this ridiculous post with a rebuttal.
>>131643099I've heard the Violin Concerto from it which I remember liking a lot. I'll have to check out the rest of the set, thanks.
Beethovenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IhuyYmCE1Y&list=OLAK5uy_nlz15DhPlWB0Akr9vulxkwybz9A42bers&index=13
>>131643273Yeah sorry, I have anger issues lately. Hopefully you can't tell who I am.
now playing, let's start the day with Schumann's string quartetsstart of Schumann: String Quartet No. 1 in A Minor, Op. 41/1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfL6WnuXUmg&list=OLAK5uy_l4oQf-s6sF-E4_IKwYAkTIbGMEZlTrBtk&index=2start of Schumann: String Quartet No. 2 in F Major, Op. 41/2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGTb62euME4&list=OLAK5uy_l4oQf-s6sF-E4_IKwYAkTIbGMEZlTrBtk&index=6start of Schumann: String Quartet No. 3 in A Major, Op. 41/3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IluRI1AlGao&list=OLAK5uy_l4oQf-s6sF-E4_IKwYAkTIbGMEZlTrBtk&index=9https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l4oQf-s6sF-E4_IKwYAkTIbGMEZlTrBtk
>>131643483It's okay, banter is part of the culture here.Plus, if you are who I think you are, oftentimes I make my posts ranting against old school hiss recordings with the purpose of needling you and the other posters who love that stuff, so it's only fair you guys get to do the same to me.
>>131643647Lmao. So you do know who I am. But seriously, I've been taking a couple vitamins lately and two others have noticed it as well, I constantly have to contain frustration over small things. I felt bad for making that comment after realization, so I apologized.
Bernstein, Barenboim, Gould. Let me guess you need more.
>>131643719Uh, yeah. I do.
>>131643716If it helps at all, I can always recognize your posts because you have the most beautiful prose style here. So many times I'll read your posts and think "damn I wish I wrote like that (online)"
>>131643749Now I doubt you recognize me at all. I've probably read 10 times less art literature in my life than you do every year.
>>131643794Oh, maybe I'm mixing up, which means you're the other hiss guy, which means I now, do in fact, recognize you :p
>>131643719I just don't get Gould's popularity, especially for Bach. He was consciously trying to sound as harpsichord-esque as possible, eschewing various pianisms. People like that? I don't get it.
>>131643273>>131643483>>131643647>>131643716>>131643749>>131643794>>131643829some of you need to stop being so closeted and start tripfagging already.
>you should sink to my level
>>131643843Yes they do. Shame about the off key humming.
>>131644094Must be a boomer thing. The popularity of Hewitt, Perahia, and Schiff make much more sense to me.
Brahms 4th is really all about the timpani.
>>131643829Oops.
I'm listening to Markevitch's Beethoven!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5u5Qxwq5WA&list=OLAK5uy_kSOST6b1n71SIQpyKstfY0JkCjAGESOV8&index=7
>mfw listening to the second movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphonyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRpIJsku6iE&list=OLAK5uy_kSOST6b1n71SIQpyKstfY0JkCjAGESOV8&index=28
does anyone know any organ compositions/composers that are of a similar flavor to the organ stuff on Miles Davis - Rated X? i like the extended dissonance of the large chords. i would guess it would be late 19th/20th century french but i'm not really sure what to look for. thanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjFtbGKqFk
>>131646026Should I assume you're already familiar with Messiaen?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icCQu1FCtfQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuqCRachgYgDuruflehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJpG1Qyv6e8Viernehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-fkChE81bY
>>131646061i remembered him right after i posted that and just started listening to L'Ascension for Organ lol. thanks for the others.
>you CAN sing the entirety of the choral part from Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, right, anon? anon???https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G-rUxipMhg&list=OLAK5uy_l2A6TW9Yyc7y81Vd5bd6qKylMu46USgCE&index=4
Saw Argerich live doing the Ravel G-Major. I have no acumen dor evaluating piano technique, but parts of it sounded sketchy to me, kind of too loose. It was still lovely to hear live, but I wasn't blown away. Still, she's 85yo, obviously not in her prime, and the fact that she continues to perform at her age is incredible by itself.
>>131646192Still awesome you got to see her. What else did she play/what was the entire program?
>>131646159Hate that movement. It's an embarrassment.
>add cycle of [redacted] symphonies>start listening to the first one>look up any reviews>come across one by David Hurwitz of one of the later masterpiece symphonies>Rating: Artistic - 1; Sound - 2>immediately pause and remove cycle from my libraryclose call
Something here is mislabeled, right? These runtimes can NOT be correct.
Brahms... what a giftless bastard.
>>131643719>Bernsteinpass.
>>131646566based! Furtwangler is a tad quicker in the first movements and you love to see it!Turns out Bruckner’s pretty good when hes not performed dreadfully slow.
>>131647941I think he's referring to the Scherzo of the 9th being 23 minutes long... apparently?
>>131648014holy moly!
Wagner sucks cock.
>>131648058Wagner RAPED your mind.
now playingstart of Brahms: Violin Concerto in D Major, Op. 77 (Cadenza by Joseph Joachim)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eqqQidnp58&list=OLAK5uy_lx5CUyfLPI5hUwqR3xwCsOwqSs0oYYKn0&index=2Schumann: Fantasy for Violin and Orchestra in C Major, Op. 131https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkydR55LtOU&list=OLAK5uy_lx5CUyfLPI5hUwqR3xwCsOwqSs0oYYKn0&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lx5CUyfLPI5hUwqR3xwCsOwqSs0oYYKn0>Miracles CAN happen! Anne-Sophie Mutter is a great violinist, no doubt about it (and the highest paid classical performer in Germany, according to some sources). Kurt Masur is reliable, but rarely inspired. Well, here's one of those evenings where everything went just right, for this is a Brahms concerto that stands shoulder to shoulder with the great recordings of the past. Mutter plays with her customary scrupulous attention to detail, but also with a more than usual dose of passion and fire, especially in the zippy finale. Masur follows her like a shark on the scent of blood, providing accompaniments that are sharply characterized and rhythmically taut--simply stunning. --David Hurwitz
man, listening to Arrau's Beethoven makes my soul come alivehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExBiImnjKss&list=OLAK5uy_nlz15DhPlWB0Akr9vulxkwybz9A42bers&index=40
Wagnerians, any thoughts on this M&A remastering of Knappertsbusch's 1956 Ring? or is it just the same shit or even inferior as the Orfeo release?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwC9YdtNu0s&list=OLAK5uy_k4_GMeuT_NMtD3j4Adjzv4RY8xgKQ7M2s&index=58
and it's out! Get it while it's hot.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzz-0EwvvCE&list=OLAK5uy_nUiDbEKcGNKjlhnP5Im_ov-0sQq00VOgQ&index=6an interview he did on the release, Chopin, and Bach,https://www.idagio.com/magazine/aaron-pilsan-finding-bach-in-chopin
>>131649096The singing on this is so good.
>>131649357So sassy!
>>131649357Zesty
ravel is incredible
poulenc is incredible
When talking about the best composer of all time, it's got to be Bach. I mean, let's be honest, when you take into account all objective (intersubjective) criteria, there's no reason to think otherwise. The only other composer you could argue comes close in terms of consistency and range is Beethoven. Mozart and Schubert, they would absolutely be in the conversation if they'd lived at least 10 more years, but however tragic their early deaths were and however unfair that is, and despite the fact that they were writing absolute masterpieces in their late years—their peaks are astronomical, especially Schubert's—we have to be honest here and admit that potential is doing a lot of the heavy lifting, and that at least half of their catalogue just isn't good enough. When you're talking about one-instrument babies like Chopin, you're kidding yourself. The greatest composer of all time needs to be proficient in at least two fields (solo instrument, orchestral, chamber, opera, vocal), and Chopin doesn't do it. Arguably, after Beethoven, the two that come closest to being good shouts are Brahms and Wagner. Yes, Wagner mostly wrote opera, but he revolutionized music in such a significant way that you can't really dismiss him. And Brahms wrote everything except opera, so he's a decent shout as well. You have masters of their craft from all time periods and styles, from Handel and Telemann to Fauré, Debussy and Stravinsky, but those names simply don't carry that kind of influence and gravitas. It's got to be Bach.
>>131650691>When talking about the best composer of all time, it's got to be Bachtruehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GPj-d5qyc0
>>131650691This, except Chopin.
>>131650691>When talking about the best composer of all time, it's got to be Bachtruehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqjowhzkq_w
>>131649357Pretty good I guess, but I have to admit that I don't really know what to listen for in piano etudes.
>>131651792Just if your ears like it.
>>131651859Well my ears liked it for the most part. He sometimes seemed to take the pieces a little slow though, e.g. op 25 no 6.
>>131650691True.
>>131650691I'll take Beethoven but Bach is an acceptable answer.
>>131649357God it's unbearable to listen to literally any 25/1 when Cortot's exists. Why is the left hand so loud? Hell, even the melody is loud at times, there is barely any phrasing. Dreadful.
>>131651982Hmm, well, thanks for giving it a try, that's all I can ask. For the recorded I think it's pretty good but I'm still listening through it.
>>131650976Love Nikolayeva's Bach. Her first recording of the WTC is my favorite ever
>>131651982Hm... after listening to Cortot's interpretation and then relistening to Pilsan I have to agree that Cortot clearly has him beat.
>>131651982>>131652225Not every new recording has to be the best ever. Sometimes you just enjoy it in the moment, and/or for a different perspective.
>dude listen to the one from over a hundred years ago and was recorded in another room with a microphone underwater No thanks
>>131652293No, but this sort of speaks to an issue of recording philosophy in the modern era. Everything gets recorded, everything is incidental. Hell, most of them are just live recordings that are barely supervised and just released simply to be released. I often think of Bernstein refusing to record Mahler's 1st symphony for many years because he thought Bruno Walter's recording was great. Or how Arrau recorded an entire Goldberg Variation set only to disapprove of the release since he wanted to give Landowska the spotlight. Or how Carlos Kleiber never recorded Beethoven's 9th or Le Nozze di Figaro, because he thought Furtwangler and his father had already given perfect performances of them respectively. There's a lot to be said about an artist that carefully decides what to record and what to release. When you're just throwing everything out there even though it's not unique nor notable, you're devaluing your discography.
>>131652341Those are neat anecdotes.>Landowskath-that's not even on piano!!Anyway, again, just because you check it out for a single listen doesn't mean you have to add it to your permanent collection and rotation. It's like attending a piano recital even though the performances aren't the best ever; it was still a worthwhile experience.Lastly, it may not seem like it but I actually do spend a lot of time curating and deciding which new recordings I post here. I didn't pull Pilsan out of a hat or saw an ad on the bus, I loved his WTC so I kept an eye on him. Which is to say, I agree we ought to be discerning -- I've already done that part for you.
Whose take on Paganini is the best, and why is it Rachmaninoff?
>>131652404It's actually Ysaÿe.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_p5EvufYxA
Some anons here would have you believe you should only have one main go-to recording for each masterpiece work, like a monogamous relationship. Truth is, you should have anywhere from five-to-ten in rotation, while regularly exploring others.
>>131652571You should only ever listen to each recording once, to simulate attending a live performance.
>>131652579Well, that's the beauty of recording the performance, anon.
Is there anything worthwhile for solo cello apart from Bach's suites?
>>131652654Britten, Reger, and Kodaly all wrote worthwhile pieces for solo cello.
>>131652340>tfw no Perahia Chopin Nocturneswhy live
>>131652929No one (1) needs another new daily set of Nocturnes, Preludes, GV, or WTC.
Ysaÿe (criminally underrated).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHtVD89s2jk&list=OLAK5uy_kI2TCF2YIJKvlJWumj9qH_CRlpDDv43U4
>>131652571There is usually one or, at most, 2-3 recordings that can give a man the best pleasure possible.
>>131653039There can never be too many recordings of the greatest masterpieces in classical music. Of course, it helps if they have something new to say, and in this case, Perahia's Chopin is pretty good.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0ZY7kM2eB0&list=OLAK5uy_nI4KgSWmsIC5yF9-JoxN41JA1Z--CfS4Y&index=80
>>131653136Perhaps, but I reject the idea one should only stick to the recordings they find 10/10 with their ideal interpretation. Some variety in the 9.5s, 9s, and even 8.5s is both important and nice to have around.
>>131653165>Some variety in the 9.5s, 9s, and even 8.5s is both important and nice to have around.Yeah, and they all coincidentally happen to hiss.
>>131653216:O
>>131653148>Perahia's Chopin is pretty good.Why?
>>131653296Produces pleasure chemicals in my brain.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aumqLdt5o1Y&list=OLAK5uy_nI4KgSWmsIC5yF9-JoxN41JA1Z--CfS4Y&index=11
now playingstart of Sibelius: Symphony No. 3 in C Major, Op. 52https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puIctSZLOvY&list=OLAK5uy_kaaYqjGU5x97XwkSIm4gayFy8gjR6M5K0&index=17start of Sibelius: Symphony No. 6 in D Minor, Op. 104https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3te0IRGmas&list=OLAK5uy_kaaYqjGU5x97XwkSIm4gayFy8gjR6M5K0&index=20Sibelius: Symphony No. 7 in C Major, Op. 105https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvLEcto6pQ&list=OLAK5uy_kaaYqjGU5x97XwkSIm4gayFy8gjR6M5K0&index=23https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kaaYqjGU5x97XwkSIm4gayFy8gjR6M5K0This cycle was released this year. After finishing this, I might go and check out Saraste's first Sibelius cycle from thirty-five years ago. Always fun to do comparisons like that within a musician's/conductor's own discography, to see how their interpretations may have changed over time.
Bach.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSEQcitQNO4
>>131653871Is that Geese?
What is going on? Ever since two days ago, both 4chan and YouTube Music have been laggy as hell, especially with recordings that have a large track count. Is this a sign of God I ought to take a break from my classical (and /classical/!) hobby? Hopefully this fixes soon because it's annoying as hell.
Einstein... on the Beach!Live... at the Met!I don't know why but I find it so fun to say these phrases. Sometimes I'll utter them without any impetus or reason beyond the pleasure I find in their pronunciation.
Strange how Sawallisch's Wagner's Ring isn't more popular.https://files.catbox.moe/l40avc.flac
I can't stop listening to bruckner
>>131654110Not too impressed by this Alberich... but it does raise my curiosity...
>>131654165I know that feel. Fortunately, his music is more than deserving of such monomania.
>>131654181I've been in a hiss mood lately so I'm currently listening to Knappertsbusch 1956 >>131649096https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSKijO59jVo&list=OLAK5uy_k4_GMeuT_NMtD3j4Adjzv4RY8xgKQ7M2s&index=44
How is it that even possible? He died mobile phones were even a thing?
>>131654426the Ghoul looms...
>>131654426Anything is possible through the power of Christ.
feels like a WTC dayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Frh1sYV5k&list=OLAK5uy_lPqcojDCOBz9BtLGP3jYvk5H9JmVGIu74&index=13
>>131654445In other words, anything is not possible in the real world.
>>131654426>thanks for buying both copies of my Goldberg Variations Anon, hope you enjoy them>nowadays I vastly prefer the slower more introspective interpretation of the 81
https://youtu.be/UPeLLqcNyD4
>>131654657old news.
now playingstart of Brahms: Symphony No. 2 in D Major, Op. 73https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nTKrlpPvGI&list=OLAK5uy_npy4-RTaHKm_KDHIuhJD4vda2HBoyOlXM&index=2start of Brahms: Symphony No. 3 in F Major, Op. 90https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv-3goOLEKM&list=OLAK5uy_npy4-RTaHKm_KDHIuhJD4vda2HBoyOlXM&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_npy4-RTaHKm_KDHIuhJD4vda2HBoyOlXM
>>131654657who was in the wrong here?
There's too much good music I want to listen to at the same time, ahhhHHHHHHHHH. I want to listen to Schubert's piano sonatas, Beethoven's piano concertos, Brahms' piano quartets, Bruckner's symphonies, Strauss' tone poems, Tchaikovsky's symphonies, Chopin's piano sonatas, Faure's Nocturnes, Mahler's symphonies, Rachmaninoff's Preludes and Etudes, Wagner's Tannhauser, Schumann's solo piano music, Mendelssohn's piano trios, Bach's cello suites, Shostakovich's violin concertos, Prokofiev's piano sonatas... it's too much! And before I know it the day will be over and I won't have heard it all and then tomorrow will come and instead of continuing through the list, the list replenishes, the desires for the pieces I listened to today return, and the issue repeats. ahhhhHHHHHHHBachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9334VtmIzs&list=OLAK5uy_m1g2HAfPpniWQR8EzDDJZcflTE0jtiOp4&index=22
>So, what are your hobbies, anon?>Well, among other things, I'm obsessed with listening to music.>Oh? Me too! What kind of music do you like?>Classical. You?>...you like classical? No you don't.your reply?
>There’s a contradiction at the heart of collecting historical recordings. However much they pretend that the sonic limitations of early or pre-LP sources often matter little to a perfectly adequate appreciation or enjoyment of the interpretation in question, collectors invariably continue to look for transfers that offer marginal improvements over those that they already own. Why the hypocrisy? Simple. There’s no avoiding the fundamental fact that music is, first and foremost, sound. Therefore, the contention that it doesn’t really matter how much of a performance you can actually hear is simply bunk, and deep down inside even historical collectors know it, much as they may hate to admit it. This is particularly true of chamber and piano recordings. ---- David Hurwitzholy, hiss sisters btfo
>>131655036>This is particularly true of chamber and piano recordingsIn chamber/solo performances literally everything essential is audible as soon as electrical recording was established, with extreme frequencies (that carry little information in most classical music) missing and slightly flattened dynamics, but never to the point where one cannot discern what's being played
>>131654941>*raises eyebrow* well... okay I guess
>>131655224>*they point at you*>Hey everyone, this guy's a pretentious FRAUD
https://vocaroo.com/15bYmh9kEg2bDoes anyone recognize this choral piece sung during Pope's visit to France today?
>>131655036>>131655152Yeah I don't really get that. Piano and chamber music in historical recordings, you aren't really missing much. Detail wise most of it is there. And stereo separation isn't really necessary here like it can sometimes be for orchestral works. I'm quite certain Hurwitz has said so himself in a video too, where he talks about how opera and piano historical recordings are usually much easier for him to listen to compared to symphonic
fine I guess it can't hurt to try out Inbal's Bruckner cyclehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tja4PtbcVv4&list=OLAK5uy_lZ0nst7in4bfQpMBZRg3ZRDXMf9CwpCsA&index=26
Liszt.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhqJpoXoSPM&list=OLAK5uy_kFOBFU70AmCqO_S8h1ierMOPI5KtOpyvA
More Liszt.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj9CW-3eMCQ
>>131641306the average Bach cantata is better than the average Buxtehude piece lmao
>>131642782Vengeance Trio from act 2 of Gotterdammerung
>adds a female part to the first two acts of Siegfriedthere, it's fixed
>teleports back in time to abort Richard Wagnerthere, it's fixed
>>131659193Felix sama...
I'm listening to Jochum's first Bruckner cycle!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYt243tj16M&list=OLAK5uy_kW7CrYmH6YGdc9FzGPuQdEpP0wtb-R6yE&index=9
Ysaÿe.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN7mPqe_bRc&list=OLAK5uy_lM2e1NftFFhgBxh7kCX9BYxyzHGK_twes&index=2
you guys try this recent Vasily Petrenko Mahler 3 yet?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-ibHkM3uyc&list=OLAK5uy_nFbrWwP-zAMRcCF0UqWOhqNV6fFY6oroE&index=1I've yet to be let down by a recording of his.
I'm writing an essay called The Politics of Hiss. It lays out the implications of privileging old historical recordings, which often contain audio defects (playfully referred to as "hiss" within the classical community) because modern recordings are of significantly lesser quality. This contains an insidious reactionary undercurrent as it suggests some kind of defect within Western society, present since WW2, that renders it incapable of producing musicians without the requisite soul necessary for a worthwhile artistic performance.Hiss is fascist
>>131659449er, renders it incapable of producing musicians with* the requisite soulwhoops!
It really is a shame that none of the old greats recorded a cycle of Ysaÿe's sonatas.
>>131659449>Art is nothing more or less than the expression of the collective metaphysical world picture of a culture. The flat iconography of the medievals lacked perspective not out of artistic immaturity, but because subjectivity and perspective were not features of their transcendent and eternal World Picture. The emergence of geometric precision and perspective in the art of the Renaissance was not accidental, it was an expression of the new metaphysic of human experience and terrestrial sensation. Such is the case with all artistic paradigms.>In modernity, all transcendent hierarchies have been flattened, and all metaphysics declared dead. There are no universal forms for the artist to transmit through their craft, and those that try can merely imitate those of the past. The "modern" artist is forced to both produce novel noumenal forms and transmute them into phenomenal works of art: a contradiction of universal and particular, simultaneously subjective and transcendent. This is why modern art is so abstract and incomprehensible to the average normal, there are no formal anchors for artist or viewer to gain purchase.
>>131659507Spengler?
>>131659515Close. I am quoting a homosexual from tumblr.
>>131659374The violin and piano pieces are nifty little trinkets, but this concerto maybe should have stayed undiscovered.
More Ysaÿe.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVkzNQPayx4&list=OLAK5uy_nQZYHvzc2-4XLVyl48Rz_hwldLbMcSBCk
>>131659385not a fan of the sound on that one, it comes across as very artificial and weird
Hm... how about some... Rossini!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC7rpOC9t8c&list=PL_1hEr6VAFhrbxclyGu6rJAr_QEpntYZD
Als wüsst der Tooooooooooood was mir zu tun noch bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeebhttps://voca.ro/1bKDGZa0fhcU
https://youtu.be/yQo80hCI9DIRandomly came across Copeland's "Dance Symphony" recently. I don't know anything else of his (besides Hoe-Down from Rodeo) and found this very enjoyable. The influence of Parisian music is obvious, the middle part sounds impressionistic, while the final part is an obvious Rite of Spring ripoff. What else should I check out by him? I've been meaning to hear the 3rd symphony for a long time.Also Barabara Hannigan a cute, wish I could meet her irl.
Ight dis fire no cap
>>131661188I feel like you had to have been in some kind of acapella group in college in order to appreciate stuff like this.
>>131661673Honestly, most of his stuff is worthwhile. Check out this collection.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrL492RM4sc&list=OLAK5uy_nwwMiL-8O1CJ1AWaDqpqCC5Cupp07frEY&index=1Fuck, I might start my own morning with some Copland.
I just realized Les Rallizes Dénudés is the rock version of Bruckner. Plus The Velvet Underground's masterpiece song Sister Ray.
>>131661985I would dispute this but I did actually listen to a fair amount of acapella in my formative years and sometimes sang along to different parts with a friend.
>>131662071Keep in mind, I'm not saying it sounds bad to everyone else. As a layman, I can "appreciate" it. I'm just saying to really like it, to feel it in your bones, you probably need to have been a singer.
>he doesn't have 40+ Brahms cycles in his library, becoming paralyzed with indecision every time he wants to listen to oneheh... casual
>>131662117>put all your Brahms cycles in a playlist>when you want to listen to some Brahms, just start the playlist>after you're done listening, move the recording to the end of the playlistProblem solved. You're welcome.
>>131662156:OProblem is I often decide based on mood and taste. Sometimes I want to hear Brahms' performed heavy and slow (Bernstein, Barenboim, Barbirolli, Giulini, Bohm), tender and lyrical (Rattle, Sanderling, Kertesz), majestic and powerful (Klemperer, Karajan, Solti, Wand), poetic and balanced (Jochum, Levine, Abbado, Dohnanyi), or taut and rhythmic (Walter, Alsop, Kubelik).That said, that's not a bad idea.
>>131662117>listening to cycles instead of individual recordingsheh... casual
>>131662307I don't listen to the entire set at once if that's what you're implying. And wait, wouldn't THAT be the more patrician move, and individual recordings the causal one?
>>131662320knowing that the greatest recordings are usually not part of a cycle is patrician
>>131662334Ah.I don't know why I have a bias for cycles over discrete, partial recordings. I think on some level, I respect those who have a complete, unified vision of a composer's entire cycle over those who just like a few of the works. Like, if you don't love and have something to say about Beethoven's early piano sonatas, why should I trust what you have to say about his late sonatas?
>>131662362Did Beethoven write the early sonatas with the late ones in mind? Then why should you consider the early ones when performing the late ones? This is an asinine opinion.
If you don't love Brahms 1, you just haven't heard a good enough recording of it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elIKzRPzDZ4&list=OLAK5uy_lijEEEReyrEng22LoUfanmNcMpi8liKUU&index=2
>>131662362in der beschränkung zeigt sich erst der meister
>>131662374That's a reasonable point. I don't know, it's not really something I can logically defend over just being something I intuitively feel. Maybe I'm victim to marketing tactics.One thing I will say is discrete, singular recordings do tend to have more interesting, idiosyncratic interpretations over those in complete cycles, because they're unburdened by tradition and historical baggage. You can especially see this when you see like a Chopin or Liszt mixed program recording with one or two of the Nocturnes or pieces from Annees de pelerinage/Harmonies poetiques.>>131662406You could argue having to come up with an interpretive vision for a whole cycle over a single piece or two is the greater constraint. If anything, like I just admitted above, recording just that single piece or two grants greater interpretive freedom.
>>131662374>>131662334Look, all I know is, with all the complete cycles of, say, Beethoven's piano sonatas or Brahms' symphonies out there, when I come across a recording of just three of the Beethoven sonatas or the first Brahms symphony (and the musician doesn't have the rest of the cycle in their discography), I ignore it. I do want to rectify that though. Pianists who have only recorded, say, the Hammerklavier or conductors who've only recorded Sibelius' Fifth Symphony probably do have something unique to say about it you won't find in a complete cycle because they're unburdened by interpretive, historical baggage (which can also be beneficial -- I'm just saying it works both ways).
now playingstart of Debussy: Préludes, Livre I, CD 125, L. 117https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaUrJGNQc6w&list=OLAK5uy_kCtB8YEBKjAZ-eokRlqMsNZvqFdcvilYo&index=2start of Debussy: Préludes, Livre II, CD 131, L. 123https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEFOO88dZMA&list=OLAK5uy_kCtB8YEBKjAZ-eokRlqMsNZvqFdcvilYo&index=14Debussy: L'isle joyeuse, CD 109, L. 106https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo3S2rK-dn4&list=OLAK5uy_kCtB8YEBKjAZ-eokRlqMsNZvqFdcvilYo&index=25start of Debussy: Images, Livre I, CD 105, L. 110https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJb1_GGz8gg&list=OLAK5uy_kCtB8YEBKjAZ-eokRlqMsNZvqFdcvilYo&index=26start of Debussy: Images, Livre II, CD 120, L. 111https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTAArV06Mmw&list=OLAK5uy_kCtB8YEBKjAZ-eokRlqMsNZvqFdcvilYo&index=28https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kCtB8YEBKjAZ-eokRlqMsNZvqFdcvilYoClassicsToday (presumably Hurwitz) has this as one of their main reference recordings for Debussy's Preludes. Fierce competition.
>>131660727Great fun, though it does start to drag a bit.
>>131662489so you've never heard karajan's mahler 9?
>>131662663Obviously I've made exceptions. That's Karajan. Plus, he recorded the 4th, 5th, 6th, Das Lied, Kindertotenlieder, and Rückertlieder. And it's especially acclaimed.But there are a lot of conductors who if you go through their discography you'll see they recorded just the 6th, and yeah, despite my love for Mahler, I keep on browsing. That's more what I'm talking about.
The problem with Wagner is you listen to one, maybe two of his operas, and then turns out the day is now over and he monopolized it.
[crackle of a blank section of a vinyl record]
Is the audiophile anon around? I've got another comparison regarding the Alexander Bak/RR guy if you don't mind. Check out his remaster of Arrau's Beethoven piano sonatas that came out recently.Bak/Reference Recordinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IhuyYmCE1Y&list=OLAK5uy_nlz15DhPlWB0Akr9vulxkwybz9A42bers&index=13original Deccahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlt__5HVUDo&list=OLAK5uy_mgcxeWRckHc6JIZBB5G7J-8AmQClZuUDo&index=16is there any actual difference, much less improvement? if anything, my ears feel like the Bak/RR one has a harsher, brighter sound, versus the Decca which has some warmth, making it easier to listen to, but that might just be placebo. Thanks in advance.
>>131662945the guy doesn't have access to the original masters, no respectable audiophile would rate him
>>131662945It's not a matter of being an audiophile, you're really referring to the mixing.If you're on regular YouTube, the audio quality is capped at 126 kbps AAC. It's 128 kbps on YouTube Music, and 256 kbps with a premium subscription. It's lossy no matter what.
>>131662997I know, I know, but still, when you want to listen to a recording, and you see there's a newly released remaster in the search results, particularly by a guy who has a lot of them giving him some level of credibility, you can't help but become interested. We all want to listen to the best available version after all. Nothing like spending eleven hours listening through a set only to find out there was a superior one all along. It gives me decision anxiety.
>>131663013Of course. I was only using that word to refer to the anon who does his own remasterings and knows a lot about these kind of technical audio quality matters.
>>131663014>It gives me decision anxietyi'm helping you decide. stick to the official authorized releases
>>131662997Plus, simply put, I'm too charitable. The way my mind works, I'm thinking "oh there's no way this guy would release a remaster if it wasn't an actual improvement... right?" even though I of course know some people would do that, especially as I think with these remasters of old, classic classical recordings, when you listen to his release, he gets the playcount revenue. I could be wrong about that though, but then why else do it? If he really is releasing recordings that aren't actually an improvement in any shape or form just to siphon off income that should be going to the people who actually did the work on the other official releases, well, that's just despicable.>>131663065Yeah, I did switch back to the Decca set. Like I said, it may just be in my head, but I feel like it has a warmer sound which makes it easier listening, particularly for multiple sonatas. Something about the Bak/RR one is... clangy.
>>131663013>you're really referring to the mixinghe has access to the multitracks?? who knew!!
arrau's beethoven piano sonata cycle is the one they listen to in heaven. goode's is their alternate on weekends.
>>131663097So Beethoven is not performing in heaven? He's downstairs?
>>131663097For me, it's Grinberg and Barenboim
>>131663110even he prefers arrau and goode over his own performance.which in seriousness, just because a composer is great and wrote the music, doesn't mean they're the best performer of it (even if they have the best interpretive ideas, someone else could still play and implement it better).
>>131663123I should revisit that Grinberg set. You think it's that good? And which Barenboim? He has four(4![2+2!!]) sets, all pretty different, even if from the same fundamental approach.
>>131663082>If he really is releasing recordings that aren't actually an improvement in any shape or form just to siphon off income that should be going to the people who actually did the work on the other official releases, well, that's just despicablehave you never heard of grey market reissues??
>>131663082There doesn't necessarily have to be a nefarious intent behind releasing a bad remaster. He may genuinely believe it to be an improvement.
Most conductors today are DEX builds, Sergiu Celibidache was pure STR build. Man was a disheveled pile of sweat at the end of each performance.
>>131663179he just wants the dough
>>131663179Which leads to the next problem: if he says it's better, who am I, a tonedeaf layman, to disagree?
>>131663203be a gullible customer. buy, buy, buy!
>Beethoven's early piano sonatas aren't goo--ACK!!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB--7ri5ZdY
>>131663217He actually does charge exorbitant prices on his webpage, lol. But yes, we all want to listen to the best available release of these great recordings.
>>131663236>we all want to listen to the best available releaseand those are obviously not his "remasters" lmao
>>131663254I'm just sayin' his releases take advantage of that desire and anxiety.
>>131663263you should be anxious to get scammed!!
>>131662945Such a strange set to remaster. Most of the guy's remasters and releases I can understand, but then he also does recordings that already sound pretty great with no real need for improvement for enjoyment. Arrau's Beethoven I always thought sounds very good.
>>131663275Jokes on him, I don't have $93 to spare. But I will admit, if his remasters don't do jack, then even providing him revenue by streaming his releases on YouTube Music makes me feel icky. Especially in this scenario, where the company for the proper release still exists, lol. I'd rather support Decca (note: Arrau's Beethoven cycle was originally made for and published by Philips, but then Decca obtained the rights) than this guy. When he does recordings that have no proper release or an extinct publisher, then I don't mind so much.
>>131663289He probably ran out of popular recordings worth remastering but not out of desire for money.
>>131663309weird thing is that the copyright on the arrau set hasn't even expired, so basically universal could sue the guy if at all bothered
It's timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOyoo_T-Bkk&list=OLAK5uy_lJDQJUUwgOY8ZGzcyBkKlxaTnTBCIrfzY&index=1(note: I'm only 70% sure the release in the link playlist is the same one was in picture, remastered and released by Pristine Classical)
>>131663315Hence, feeling icky. Sometimes his releases are useful though, particularly in cases where his remaster is the only release available on YouTube Music.>>131663326lol right? which is why I was especially confused when I saw it for the first time the other day. I'm surprised he hasn't done Schnabel's Beethoven instead.
>>131661746It's grown on me over time. It's not one of my favorites, but it's a nice go-to for that specific approach and sound. What's funny is, as my enjoyment of that set has increased, my enjoyment of Schiff's first WTC on Decca has decreased. I used to enjoy its warmth and overt emotional expression, but now I just find it muddled, plodding, and gaudy.
ahhhhh he's everywhere!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d-LLBOkhS4&list=OLAK5uy_lFwLQcD90V5C088ObfIca5_mdseSOKCmw&index=1This is a case where there really isn't another good option on this streaming service though, so I don't mind, and it actually sounds much better than the one budget alternative they do have (on that Andromeda label which I always avoid -- if theirs is the only option for a historical recording, I consider there to be no options).
>>131661188Are there any operas with acapella ensemble passages like here at 05:18? Would be pretty cool I reckon.
>Riegger: Symphony No. 3 / Mennin: Symphony No. 3uh, who are either of these composers lolRieggerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyrrDiF7dmI&list=OLAK5uy_nmKn2Vb9az29mmnZa1Pt6rdxRu_gefQpk&index=2Menninhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTPEE_ZeZgQ&list=OLAK5uy_nmKn2Vb9az29mmnZa1Pt6rdxRu_gefQpk&index=5found this by browsing through Mitropoulos' discography, since I know a lot of the historical inclined anons here consider him one of the great conductors
>>131659918I personally like it but I actually do understand what you mean. It has this kind of texture like it could be playing in the background of a Disney film lol. To me though, since I like it, I'd describe it as vibrant and expressive.
now playingstart of Tchaikovsky: Piano Trio in A Minor, Op. 50https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6AuowwxsG0&list=OLAK5uy_lD0GX8vQ4ZKeaohlAOmfd-jL1RfTAnCYI&index=2start of Shostakovich: Piano Trio No. 2 in E Minor, Op. 67https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSmZpS2Tfdw&list=OLAK5uy_lD0GX8vQ4ZKeaohlAOmfd-jL1RfTAnCYI&index=16start of Weinberg: Piano Trio in A Minor, Op. 24https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6zvgN3YhLg&list=OLAK5uy_lD0GX8vQ4ZKeaohlAOmfd-jL1RfTAnCYI&index=19https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lD0GX8vQ4ZKeaohlAOmfd-jL1RfTAnCYIChamber music mood.
>>131663379The Decca one is still my go to set.
>>131664346I used to really like it too but I don't know, the last couple times I tried putting it on, I couldn't make it more than a few minutes before changing to a different set. These things sometimes fluctuate, I could end up loving it again in a year.
for me it's the 1st movement of brahms 1 playing in my head while i taking the largest shit imaginable in one smooth tidy log
>>131664571Oddly specific.
>>131664583it happened to me this morning
new>>131664603>>131664603>>131664603
>>131664590In my dream last night, I put some Ravel on a stereo and actually heard the music play.
