>>2053984It's only built for tourists who fly into madrid
>northwestern branch requires gauge changing trains>lazy Portuguese don't do shitis it really that difficult having a highspeed train line between Lisbon and Madrid? >6-8 trains (counting both directions) on super expensive tunnel between France and Spain only>still no eastern coast line Barcelona-Valencia-Malaga - current Euromed train is shit>atocha and sants are over capacity and overcrowded >baggage xray checks are security theatre. ETA haven't been bombing shit for decades>talgo trains are shit yeah renfe also running TGV and ICE trainsI have no idea why Ouigo runs their trains in Spain with the old TGV interior compared to the dogshit refurbished seats at Ouigo France, so you basically just pay 5 Euros more for TGV 1st class seats. not that I'm complaining.
>>2053986spain is a square where the largest population center is in the centerbuilding the network around Madrid makes sense
>>2053987>>northwestern branch requires gauge changing trainsfair enoughtheir fleet is being replaced with those trains so that problem is temporary>is it really that difficult having a highspeed train line between Lisbon and Madrid?Not gonna happen unless the EU funds every pennyPortugal is clearly not interested in HSR>>still no eastern coast line Barcelona-Valencia-Malaga - current Euromed train is shitThe "corredor mediterraneo" is being built, the core of the network around Madrid is already fully there and that's the only missing bit>>atocha and sants are over capacity and overcrowdedAgree, trains can be rerouted to Chamartin through the tunnel to ease pressure from Atocha>>baggage xray checks are security theatre. ETA haven't been bombing shit for decadesYou forgot about the islamist terrorist bombings on the Madrid train stationIt's the main reason behind them
>>2053984>in tarragona>want to go to valencia>have to go hours out of the way to madrid
Network
>>2053984>all of it except one or two lines is underused and has massive deficit>different gauge and electrification than existing lines making interoperability extremely complex>Mediterranean coast doesn't have continuous service despite having some of the highest demand>northeast and northwest also not directly connected despite being important centers of activity >prioritizes major cities while hurting rural areas which see their regional services reduced or even eliminated>no connection to Portugal>connection to France is pointless because it's 6 hours Barcelona-Paris, 8-9 Hours Madrid-Paris>essentially just a massively subsidized and uneconomical public works project>which drained away funds from the rest of the rail system which is crumbling from lack of investment>massively overbuilt in a country with low population density and extremely difficult terrain, where a combination of air travel + cheap normal trains + night trains would of been more economical (like in Russia)You'd really have to ask what's good about it, and it likely boils down to>Madrid-Seville and Madrid-Barcelona lines
>>2053991>You forgot about the islamist terrorist bombings on the Madrid train station>It's the main reason behind themThose attacks where on commuter trains. I love the attitude of>let's protect the good trains and fuck the poorfagslmao
>>2053984it's in spain instead of a cool country
>>2053984La Robla / Leon is missing
>>2053984the flaw is that RENFE and ADIF are absolutely dogshit companies and and everything is breaking down due to zero investment
>>2054054Even the HS lines which are like barely 20 years old lmao
>>2053986Do tourists even go to madrid? I thought it was all the southern coast and bilbao
>>2053986it's the opposite, the guiris take 20 euro flights direct to Alicante, Malaga, etc. Spaniards have to travel to Madrid by train for work all the time.in b4>Spain>work
>>2053984It's in Spain.Fuck Spain.
>>2053984Continuity
>>2054001>>no connection to Portugalthis one is because the portuguese government won't fund their half of the linethe connection from madrid to the portuguese border is already under construction
>>2053984its built entirely around madrid, forcing people to take relatively long routes if they go from the periphery to other places that arent madridits very convenient if you live in madrid tho
>>2053984Spain is shockingly close to Africa. Like vagina close to asshole levels
>>2053984it connects to scatalonia
>>2054182Why would you build half an HSL if the other country isn't building the other half? That's pants on head retarded.
>>2054294the line goes to Badajoz which is a large city on the border with Portugal and is intended to go to Lisbon as soon as the Portuguese government gets around to it
>>2054320>a large city
>>2054338t. chink
>>2054421Cope
>>2053984
>>2053987Who gives a fuck about Madrid? If anything, it should go straight to the French border via Burgos; that's been endlessly debated and couldn't be any better understood.
>>2054001>Massive deficit As far as I know, every line in the world, except for Paris-Lion and another one in Japan are just vanity money pits.
>>2054182The Portuguese government won't fund it because>It's a money pit that'd require massive investments without any guarantee of roi>There's no actual confidence Spain would fullfil its part, since it's of no interest to them (actually the opposite, see below)>Portugal is actually more interested in high-speed FREIGHT exports line to Europe (i e.: France, etc.), which would probably have had to yield to passenger traffic, denying its hs advantage.
>>2054495Japan is probably the worst example, because most lines there are operated either profitable or as part of a profitable business (like say with additional income from station shops owned by the train company).In the EU to subsidize train *operation* there has to be a public tendering for subsidized service. Most long-distance lines and especially HSR are operated as commercial service, ie as a profitable train service (and recently other operators started competing for them which is also retarded but a whole different story).However the trick is that the cost of infrastructure is counted separately. It works like this>government builds rail line>either charges operators for running trains on them>or tenders out subsidized serviceSo the question is: does any particular line get enough traffic to make the *infrastructure* economically viable, ie pay for maintenance and construction cost?In France the higher used lines are profitable in both operation and infrastructure costs while the lesser used lines like the LGV Nord and LGV Mediterranee likely lose money on the infrastructure.However you can argue that a certain deficit is fine so long as you get enough other benefits out of it.Spain otoh is a grotesque example. All HSR lines except Madrid-Barcelona, Madrid-Seville and Madrid-Valencia are massively underused to the point that the government has to tender out subsidized HSR service to get more than a few trains a day running.The Spanish HS Infrastructure operator has a debt of almost 20 billion euros (and counting because it has a yearly deficit of 100 million), and that doesn't include direct investment from the government and from the EU in HSR construction. Spain has also invested around 24 billion euros only from 2022 to 2026.tl;dr train lines often have some deficit in operation only (as normal lines have often been built 100+ years ago), but Spanish HSR deficit is in a league of its own
>>2054514>Japan is probably the worst example, because most lines there are operated either profitable or as part of a profitable businessIn the Tokyo metropolitan area and connecting Shinkansen services: yes. Everywhere else: no, which is why the various JR businesses have been steadily closing and ripping-up regional branch lines all the way from privatisation in the 1980s through to today.
>>2054515>which is why the various JR businesses have been steadily closing and ripping-up regional branch lines all the way from privatisation in the 1980s through to today.Which is why the lines that are left tend to be economical. Pretty obvious. The ones that aren't are turned into third-sector lines (or whatever it's called) where they're subsidized by local governments.
>>2054519>where they're subsidized by local governments...thus, not profitable or part of a profitable business.
>>2054514>Profitable Germany finished building a new line some years ago; I did some rough calculations based on numbers provided then: even just accounting for cist of building it (no expenses with trains, operation, maintenance, taxes, etc.), tickets would have to be at around 100 €, just to pay it up within decades.
>>2054538And a small minority of the total of rail lines. Which is essentially what I said.Dipshit.
>>2054569>Which is essentially what I said.No, you posted something wrong and I corrected you, and now you're mad.
>>2054572I said>Japan is probably the worst example, because most lines there are operated either profitable>mostYou're grasping at straws because you're low IQ and now your jimmies are rustled.
>>2054612You said>most lines there are operated either profitable or as part of a profitable businessThis is incorrect, because the Japanese railway is more than the Tokyo metro and Shinkansen network, which are the profitable parts of the Japanese railway. This is not 'most lines'. Please don't move goalposts when corrected.
>>2053984Its retarded gauge
>>2054656>You said>>most lines there are operated either profitable or as part of a profitable businessI did because that's correct
>>2054781Nah this is the HSR which uses standard gauge.They chose broad gauge because railroads would never reach the french border and the king thought they'd tackle hills better by fitting larger engines.In hindsight they should have used cape gauge and gradually switched to standard in the early 20th century.
>>2053984taking a bike on spanish trains is a major hassle
what happened here
>>2055212Dual gauge. Not pure HSR but shared with regular trains.Should have drawn something in the gap.
>>2055173Portugal literally begun by using 1,435 gauge, before it even was an internationally adopted standard, but quickly switched to 1,664 gauge (by moving the rails to the outer nails). Iberian 1.668 is a compromise between Portuguese 1.664 (5 portuguese feet) and Spanish 1.672 (6 castillian feet) gauges.
>>2054048And also the connection between Madrid and Badajoz, presumably via Toledo.
