>Electronic shifting is becoming a thing
>Yet nobody has come up with an automatic shifter yet

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I've ridden all three big brands, and if you count bikes I've owned for a while and sold, I've had 1 AXS bike and 6 Di2 bikes to this point. So I'm a fan of electronic shifting. Before I got my hands on Di2 my favorite was Campy Ergo ultrashift, and I've ridden everything all the way down to stem shifters and offbrand plastic gripshifters. I also used to work as a bike shop mechanic and have worked on all of the things.

Electronic shifting is great for these reasons, sorted by their importance to me personally:
1. Perfect shift every shift forever without having to think about it.
2. Ergonomic freedom - shift from any riding position where you can tap a button with a single finger. This is great for comfort or maintaining an aero position or just when you only have one hand on the bars
3. Shimano GRX Di2 2x in full synchro mode off road is like having a close spaced 1x18. And you never have to worry about crosschaining when you're deep into a hard ride and exhausted or otherwise distracted - just press the button and the system goes to the next appropriate gear without requiring any attention
4. Less maintenance (excluding the occasional battery charge and addressing chain/sprocket wear and external damage), you can install your drivetrain once and then never touch it again for years, it stays perfect without any attention. Also nearly impervious to water, snow, or all but the worst mud.
5. less hand force and extension to shift is great for smaller riders or people with less hand strength
6. Simplicity is great for riders who aren't going to take the time to learn how to shift. If my aging parents (who are not cyclists) suddenly decided they wanted to take up road cycling, I'd set them up on bikes with 105 di2 in full synchro. One button for easier gear, one button for harder gear. They'd be much more likely to have a good time that way than with any other setup.

>>2054384
>So what did I miss here?

you're slow
electronic shifting matters to people who can put down 2000 watts on one pedal to defeat breakaways and win sprints, where missing 1% of shifts under load might actually matter. if you aren't podium-finishing multiple criteriums per week electronic shifting is pointless and irrelevant

I would never buy electronic shifting because of the number of for parts or not working rear derailleurs you find on eBay vs mechanical systems that are 30-40 years old and still function as designed

I love my ultegra Di2. Its just cool and i love the sound it makes when shifting. Its kinda star wars combining with cycling.
>>2054392
Poor

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>>2054393
>I love my ultegra Di2. Its just cool and i love the sound it makes when shifting. Its kinda star wars combining with cycling.

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>>2054398
The only thing worse than nu-Star Wars is the resulting reflexive nu-zoomer reaction to the phrase "Star Wars"

Star Wars is a 1977 movie (and line of toys), and also a massive defense industry boondoggle from the early 80s. Your Jar Jar Binks Natalie Portman children's movie has nothing to do with any of this

>>2054400
The original movie was for kids too bozo, you just were a kid at the time. See if you can see this post from your massive position of hubris

>>2054384
>it reminded me of the first time I got my dick sucked .... "that's all? that's what all the hype was about?"
Something was either wrong with you or that first blow job.

>>2054387
a bunch of companies have. Shimano has automatic shifting for e-MTB, Di2 does automatic front shifting, and an upcoming version of Cues Di2 will have a fully automatic mode
>>2054388
sucks balls when batteries go kaput mid-ride tho, which is really common on group rides, especially for people riding SRAM because they have coin batteries in the shifters. I once wound up inadvertently doing a singlespeed MTB ride (which was more of a hike) in a high gear because my AXS battery discharged while off the bike, which sucked. Now I bring a battery pack and the battery charger so that I can charge the battery if needed, and of course a spare for the shifter

>>2054522
>carrying a spare battery and charger at all times
Most of the people shilling e-shifting say this is a total non-issue, if it is an issue then that's a total dealbreaker for me

>>2054535
the coin cells in the shifters last years and anyone who isn't ret or new to e-shifting just checks the di2/axs battery before every big ride. They all have a light that indicates the battery status. Carrying an extra battery or charger is something you do for touring or ultra races

t. other guy

>>2054539
with AXS it's better to use the app, but that only works if the system is active, so in the case I ran into, I only found out when I arrived at the trailhead, plugged in the battery, and nothing worked. Also on a recent lunch ride with a friend, his Di2 went kaput in the middle of the ride. He's been riding with Di2 for over a decade now. File under shit happens. Personally I don't think it's a big deal to keep a small battery pack + charging cable (and that shitty battery charger SRAM uses...one nice thing about Campy WRL is that there's a USB-C port right on the battery) with you just in case

>>2054539
>the coin cells in the shifters last years
I don't see how that's possible considering the coin cells in my hub mounted speed sensor are good for like a year, tops. like maybe they're just incredibly amazing at power management or wahoo just sucks at it, but I'm skeptical

>>2055941
Last time I changed mine was in early 2023. Of course it depends on how much you ride and how often you shift but they're definitely nothing I would worry about.

>>2055944
Now that I think about it, a wheel sensor is always on (when in motion), the shifters can probably go into some kind of sleep/standby state when they're not transmitting

>batteries
>apps
>charging ports

For a fucking bicycle chain. Kill yourselves immediately. Also look up the pentest for Di2, it’s a joke. Someone can hang outside your cafe, grab your codes with a flipper zero then dump you into max gear and stick it there as you pull out into traffic. A sufficiently motivated malicious psychopath could cause a mass casualty event when the big blob of dentists and accountants go for their Sunday ride.

>>2057185
Or they could just drive a coal roller into you with a bunch of pizzagate bumper stickers and get a presidential pardon and a $300k gofundme for the damage to your truck, seems easier to me?

>>2057194
Deranged fredder

I have been thinking about how best this could be done. The big problem for automating bicycle gears of either derailer or the internal type is that you can't be applyling force to the pedels as you change gear, for either type. Derailers must turn a little and internal are better freewheeling but they are minus force on the pedals. Which means the rider must know he is to change gear which means it cannot be automatic.

It occurs to me that the problem of continous automatic pedal drive could be handled as on modern car automatic gearboxes - with two clutches and two gearboxes and instantanious shifting between the two.

I thought the easiest way might be to have two chains going to two derailers, both on clutches at the back. While one is engaged the other is disengaged but turning.

When you shift, either by hand or computer, the derailer on the passive side would shift first, then once in gear that clutch would go in and the other out. The gear cogs would be spaced so as that would be one gear higher. Then to shuft up to the next the power drive would switch over by clutch again after engaging.

On internal gears the same effect could be had by having two gearboxes side by side with matched gears. They could be identical using current designs or spaced apart uding a new design . Or a single gearbox could be redesigned to be two geaboxes internally with seperate clutches, and only one drive chain.

I think it would work. Transmission would be continuous and able to be automatic.

This does use some electricity but people could charge up before they go or operate a small dynamo to keep it changed.

The good thing about this is it doesn't need masses of electronics. Just something that compares pedal speed with wheel speed. No app, just if there is lots of free wheeling shift up and if slowing while pedalling shift down. Maybe a lever to adjust targetted pedal rate.

>>2055941
that shifter only uses energy when you shift, whereas your speed sensor is constantly probing 24/7 at a high HZ of course its gonna use more energy. Think about it for a second.

>>2057237
>>2057050
lmao didn't see

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>>2054388
>electric is for lazy and stupid people
as i fucking suspected

>>2057185
it's a shifter not a nuclear power station, I'll take my chances

>shifts worse outside of top 0.01% of big uphil pulls by athletes that have more muscle in one leg than an average man has in his body
>less reliable
>more maintenance (regular charging)
>more weight
>dramatically more expensive
>easy target for thieves
>eliminated the derailleur hanger so you'll break something expensive if you fall
>exists solely to sell expensive shit to rich fucks, while giving manufacturers the excuse to make shit for peasants worse (why would we make good 11s cable drivetrains, you should buy electronic!)

>>2059104
that's a lot of poorfag cope lmao

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>>2059107
>

>>2057974
If that's what you got from that post you're being dumb or disingenuous

t.will gladly use my cable shifting till the cows come home because I just don't think it's worth it for me (and likely for most people that use it - but they enjoy it and value it so who am I to make fun of that)

>>2059107
fuckoff, cable shifting is a perfectly fine solution and the price and reliability issues are definitely a legitimate concern, even if one isn't at the poverty line, hell - even way above it it's legitimate

>>2059104
wait what? how is e-shifting about eliminating the defailuer hanger, that's a whole other issue

>>2062237
>he doesn't know
the entire point of those hanger-less electronic shifters is to have it in a standardized position against the wheel so that you don't need to adjust anything, you can just shove it in there and it'll shift out of the box. there's a reason there are no hanger-less cable derailleurs, it makes no sense.

>>2054384
this looks completely unmaintainable

>>2062733
A bike is only as maintainable as its market share

>>2062238
>there's a reason there are no hanger-less cable derailleurs, it makes no sense.

Eagle 70 and 90 are both full mount mech derailleurs. Direct mount has nothing to do with electronic shifting and the reason we aren't seeing more full mount groups is because SRAM doesn't let other companies fully utilize it. Even if you dislike full mount UDH is a great thing because it forces all manufacturers that want to use SRAM groupsets into using the same derailleur hanger.

>>2062736
amazing how unracers don't get this. they stubbornly insist that their "normal" (usually, anachronistic and 15+ years behind industry standard) will always be "normal" so any time they need a new bike they buy something that's already outdated at the time they're buying, and then after a few years of not riding (but complaining about spandex a lot), when replacement parts start becoming necessary because their shit rusted out from being chained up in the for years, they're utterly shocked when those parts are niche hipster items and they blame marketing jews and carbon spandex homosexuals for an entirely avoidable, self-inflicted problem. like no shit rim brake 700c wheels are getting rare, anyone with eyes saw this coming years ago and now you're mad? we tried to warn you but you weren't having it.

>>2064909
I know right? those fucking unracers! let's post about them in every thread!

>>2064909
I built a couple of rim brake wheels (different specs) a year or two ago. I didn't have any trouble finding rims or hubs. velomine is still full of rim brake wheels.

>>2064929
oh it's you, the velomine guy. yes, I've perused your site. it's not bad for an index of dumpster dive finds. you should probably buy an ad though.

>>2054387

It exists, it's called enviolo automatic. It's a CVT and it's fitted to e-bikes because of the weight/resistance, but it's really nice. You set a cadence and the system auto adjusts the gearing for you.

Some day electronic shifting will be the default and rich people will dab on everyone else with their expensive boutique mechanical shift bikes

let's be real, 90% of riders actually shift maybe once a month

>>2066779
Weird thing to admit but ok

>>2068148
just stand on your pedals bro. this isn't a race, it's start-stop traffic

>>2059102
In 500 years there will be a taboo against thinking computers and having an unregistered Di2 part will be the technology equivalent of a smallpox vial

>>2054389
Oops everyone forgot to give this guy a (You)

>>2057236
I don't mind technology but the shifting under load meme for derailers (I see what you did there) is only really a problem on the front derailleur, 95% of your shifts are on the rear where it's unlikely to cause trouble.

>>2054388
>If my aging parents (who are not cyclists) suddenly decided they wanted to take up road cycling, I'd set them up on bikes with 105 di2 in full synchro.
because you'd convince them so you can justify buying some random garbage

>>2074426
>shifting under load meme
i thought you literally had to be under load to shift at all because otherwise the chain isn't moving and doesn't get dragged to the next gear

>>2075327
Have you literally never ridden a bike before? Are you retarded or just a fred?

>>2075334
I know who you are, nta btw

options for shifting over WiFi 802.11AX?

>>2075327
It is literally impossible to shift under load.

>>2075336
All shifters will be required under NY state law to have an always-on internet connection (BLE using the same network as Apple's Find My) that checks your shifting in real time to make sure you're not on the way to or from a shop that sells objects that could conceivably be used as manufacturing precursors to a ghost gun, such as objects made of plastic, wood, or metal

>>2075366
>carbon fiber isn't banned
Based?

>>2075366
based disbar

>>2075378
literally whoms't?

>>2057185
There has to be some kind of handshake between the components since otherwise you couldn't have a whole blob of people all using them, so causing a mass event might be hard.

That said, it surprises me that wired electronic shifters aren't more of a thing. Seems to me like it'd have a lot of advantages, you'd get the performance benefits of electronic shifting but without the concerns of wireless (accidental interference as well as intentional etc.) and it'd mean you'd only need a single electronics and battery package, which could be frame mounted where it's safer in a crash and could have a much bigger battery. It could probably be a lot cheaper too since not only would you eliminate the wireless stuff and dual batts etc. but they also wouldn't need to hyper-miniaturize things like they do when the whole package needs to hang on a derailleur.

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>>2077304
>There has to be some kind of handshake between the components
nah just basic spectrum deconfliction which is pretty easily achievable since the "2ghz spectrum" is actually huge
back in the day this was user-defined but modern wireless protocols just do it automagically. it increases overhead but you can get gigabit connections over fucking 1w bluetooth now so who cares

after that it's just UDP style yeeting commands on broadcast but you include the serial number (or other addressing) of the thing that is talking and what it is talking to. the shifter doesn't care about a response from the derailleur; if something is wrong the derailleur can complain. under normal operation a response is not required or is at best implcit (e.g. if derailleur wants to report it's got a problem and can't shift, it doesn't need a formal ACK packet response, but good design demands the shifter will do something about it)

>wired
it's for weight weening and aero nerds so despite it making way more sense, the lycra faggot will not tolerate it

>>2077321
I'm just saying that you couldn't send a blanket command, you'd have to sniff out the serial number or whatever for each set and issue commands individually if you wanted to affect a whole group.

I think the wired version could conceivably be lighter too, since it'd only need one battery and electronics package connected by pretty thin wires. It could be more aero too since the shifter and derailleur parts themselves could be a lot more minimal. I guess a lot of the appeal for people is also just not having to run wires though.

>>2077330
>I guess a lot of the appeal for people is also just not having to run wires though.
it's really just this, modern people are retards who hate looking at wires or cables for some reason.

see also: integrated "cockpits" and internal routing. literally zero advantages except "it looks cleaner so it must be faster bro" (it isn't)

>>2077333
Because wires suck and are a massive failure point with a huge attack area, and wireless shit is a solved problem. You guys are living in the '00s if you think you're going to win this battle. And I'm a confirmed luddite and I love "sticking it to the man", I've clung to my wired shit until everyone else had moved on. And every time I capitulate, long after the battle was won, I realize I was wrong and wireless *is* a better user experience. The other day I was de-cluttering and I dug up an old pair of AKG K701s. I can't believe I used to think these were good. Tried to give them to one of the contractors working on my bathroom and the guy looked at me with pity in his eyes (pity! from the help!) and was like bro nobody uses those anymore sorry.

I don't even have a wireless bike, though I have ridden them and think they're fine. I'm in no hurry to upgrade but the time will come, and I really do not give a fuck if there's no transmission lines I can touch with my hands like an autist. I've learned my lesson the hard way enough times by now. Wires are the past. You're only hurting yourself. Go protest the Flock cams at your city council meeting if you want to be a luddite, at least do something socially useful. Railing against wireless shifting jfc. Get a grip man.

>>2077334
this has to be a copypasta originally about wireless keyboards or something

>>2077335
I'm surprised you didn't call it chatGPT, you zoomies always think anything more than 3 words at a time is LLM text.

But no. My resistance was broken down first by getting a modern ax router, and later by getting Focal Bathys headphones. There is literally nothing wrong with radio waves anymore. Early technology sucked but no longer.

The only reason I cling to a wired keyboard is I have superstitious fear of key logging even though a microphone and some AI could easily crack my passwords.

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>>2077334
im a robofucker chad and want my machinery to have as many exposed transmission lines and pull cables as is reasonable, which is more than none but not necessarily all of them

>>2077337
>getting a modern ax router
Wait, you had to actually go out and get one? My ISP literally gives them out for free.

>wireless keyboard
wireless pc peripherals suck because you have to change batteries, which sucks, or charge them by USB, so they just become wired anyway since you may as well just leave it in to charge unless you HAVE to move it away from your desk. Also, the stupid dongles always disappearing or breaking and few modern computers/laptops having integrated bluetooth receivers worth a shit.

> a microphone and some AI could easily crack
the russians were already doing this in real time by the 60s my man

>>2077340
>using the equipment your ISP gives to you
Giga cringe. Let me guess you also use the default SSID and password?

And yes, I acknowledged that there are much weaker links in my opsec than the connection between my keys and the computer but sometimes we do irrational things based on emotion and not logic. You would know about that, being anti-wireless shifting.

>>2077334
I was really thinking about as a cost thing more than anything else, I just addressed some stuff that other anon brought up, or things I thought /n/ people would think about. I'm also a mountain biker though and my priorities are different from roadies, a simpler and more crash-resistant solution could be worth a few extra ounces and modern MTBs all have internal routing so the wire isn't really an issue.

>>2077345
wired electronic shifting is how campagnolo did it with EPS before going wireless. That shit was a mess and pain in the ass to assemble.

>>2077342
>Let me guess you also use the default SSID and password?
Yes. :)

And electronic shifting is giga gay but not because of security considerations. I just think all the problems it "solves" are made-up and have easier solutions, and even the current form factor it has is sub-optimal for the technology available at the suggested price point.

>>2077337
>The only reason I cling to a wired keyboard is I have superstitious fear of key logging even though a microphone and some AI could easily crack my passwords.

my dude, MIT kids were pulling high fidelity sound reproduction off of low-quality youtube footage of a potato chip bag like thirty years ago

I would give even money that the spook shops can infer your passwords from any stochastic channel you care to name

>>2077393
Why is everyone replying to my post saying keylogging has multiple effective methods involving sound (etc) as if I said keylogging was physically impossible and had never been done before

>>2077395
because you said you think it would require "AI"

>>2077423
I didn't say anything about what was required to accomplish an end goal. Pay up for a bigger context window next time.

>>2077340
I clung to wired for years but modern wireless mice are god tier, and you only have to charge them for like an hour a week, which you can often do overnight if your PC leaves its ports powered when shut down. Getting rid of cable drag is an absolute game changer. I've never had issues with the dongles on them either, in large part because they go on the end of the same cable you charge the mouse with.

I'm still on a wired keyboard because there are a lot more options and wireless adds a lot to the price, and I feel it has much less advantage since you're not moving your keyboard around constantly.

>>2077510
Did you ask Grok to write you that post?

>>2077527
So much for being utterly unperturbed and nothing gets under your skin, huh. Remember this one is also a bicycle related thread. If you have nothing to add, you are invited to pipe down and let the grownups talk.

>>2077510
>I didn't say anything about what was required
>>2077337
>I have superstitious fear of key logging even though a microphone and some AI could easily crack my passwords.

IDIOT

>>2077529
Were you home schooled? I'd hate my parents too if I were in your shoes.

>>2077393
>>2077347
>>2077340
>>2077333
>>2077330


There he is.


The incredible retard.