Instead of HSR, why doesn't California build a high speed ferry between LA and San Francisco?
>>2069658ferries have high but very obvious upfront costs centered around specific properties, so they're easier to point at and basedface about how expensive it is. meanwhile, HSR is priced per mile so you can pretend like it's not as expensive upfront because most americans can't do math.
If we use the Catalina Flyer that takes people from mainland California to Catalina Island as our base line, that has a top speed of about 30mph. Do you have any fucking idea how long it would take a Ferry like that to go between San Fransisco and LA? Nobody wants to actually spend that long on a boat rocking about on the ocean surrounded by randos unless it's a massive cruise ship. Plus that's just the top speed, depending on tide and weather conditions it's going to be way slower
>>2069670A hydrofoil would work great though, also why are anti-transportation people so worked up about "spending time with randos", people take trains and it's a lot more cramped than a boat
>>2069658It could be done, but it would be difficult to make it cost effective. A basic itinerary would be San Francisco, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Morro Bay, Santa Barbara, Ventura, and Santa Monica Los Angeles. The total distance traveled would be something like 440 miles. At 20 mph (about the average speed of the San Francisco Golden Gate ferries) that works out to 22 hours of travel, not counting docking, loading and unloading. Morro Bay would probably be a crucial logistical stop point because it's about halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles. The other challenge would be Honda Point, Point Arguello, and Point Conception. This area of the California coast can become extremely treacherous in fog, even with experienced captains.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTveGOZo1_ghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Point_disaster
>>2069658>>2069685Honestly it would be better to just improve ferry service in the Bay, add more stops/lines and connect them better to public transit.
What if we just made the ferries go so fast they could lift off the ground with a wing? And what if we put wheels on it so they could take off and land on the ground instead of the water?
>>2069688Ferry service in San Francisco Bay is limited because of competition with the Bay Bridge, BART/Caltrain and land constraints in the South Bay. Historically there were about 12 ferry companies ferrying people between San Francisco and Oakland every 30 minutes before the bridge was built. Supposedly there will be a ferry from SF to Berkeley because traffic is high enough to warrant it.The South Bay land issues are another matter. The problem there is that the bay is very shallow and there is a large area of former salt ponds that are now wetlands. One could probably get a ferry as far as the center channel of the Dumbarton bridge safely every time but after that one would be limited by high tide.
It's crazy that by the time we're done bombing Iran China will have built a new airport yet if you were to propose something like that on US soil it would unanimously dismissed as a waste of money
It's also one of the reasons why the historical Sonoma Creek ferry to Wingo was abandoned. There would need to be a dredging operation and that just isn't cost effective based on who would use the ferry.In the case of the Petaluma River there is already regular dredging for free by the US Army Corps of Engineers because its a river used by the Coast Guard to patrol San Pablo Bay. And there were plans for a ferry to Port Sonoma, but those fell apart. The bridge is for cars only. The issue there is that the port facilities are on the east side of the river at Port Sonoma, but the people are on the west side of the river at Black Point-Green Point. There is a direct rail link from Black Point-Green Point to Novato owned by SMART. And SMART has stated (this was about a decade after the Port Sonoma ferry plan fell apart) that they would build their own bridge for rail and pedestrian traffic if someone else were to put in the funding. Because it's to Marin/Sonoma it would fall under the Golden Gate Transit ferry system and I don't think capacity has been reached at Larkspur Landing such that it would warrant the creation of a new terminal. There will eventually be a pedestrian path for the San Francisco Bay trail.https://mtc.ca.gov/operations/regional-trails-parks/san-francisco-bay-trailAnd the general area is considered to be part of the San Francisco Bay water trail for kayakers.https://sfbaywatertrail.org/
Here's the depth map for the South Bay
>>2069702Where did you get these maps?
>>2069703If you image search NOAA and the location you are looking for you can find them. But it also helps to know the chart number to find the best resolution. The San Pablo bay one is from here:https://geographic.org/nautical_charts/14_san_francisco_to_cape_flattery/18652_6_san_francisco_bay_to_san_pablo_bay.html
>>2069696China has never and will never send humans to the moon. I hear there's plenty of airports in Africa too anon.
>>2069703nautical charts are literally free in the US
>>2069706Who the fuck cares about weird "feats of strength" like sending people to the moon? I want public services I can use, not international dick-measuring.
>>2069696>>2069708This brainrot is the result of watching too many soijaking b-roll of Chinese construction projects played to trashy third world phonk music on social media. There's many improvements America can make to public transportation but we don't need more airports. But if building new airports is what tickles your autism for some reason, there is a new commercial airport that was just approved and funded for construction in Southern Nevada but it isn't expected to be completed for another decade, hopefully your doomer ass would've committed suicide by then. One can only hope
>>2069706How does that improve my quality of life and that of my fellow citizens?
>>2069709JFK should be razed to the ground and rebuilt.
>>2069709>it isn't expected to be completed for another decadesee, this is the problem. chinks can get shit done. america is too up the ass of career bureaucrats that make money on every single delay to even approve construction. publically execute all bureaucrats and politicians.
my city just started a water taxi and the only people using it are tourists. faster to just take the bus for anyone commuting.
>>2069789my city started water buses a couple years ago. mostly for their winter icebreaker duty, but they keep running in the summer because why not. a bunch of tourists, of course, but i've also seen people on dates and highschool kids with tutors.
>>2069796that's pretty neat it breaks up the ice and doubles as public transport?
>>2069796>highschool kids are dating their tutors
>>2069658not as fast nor efficient, don't carry as much peoplenow a ground effect vehicle might cut it
>>2069658Six reasons1. Less opportunities for graft and land theft (which HSR is 99.9%)2. Overnight accommodations would be required because sailing from Los Angeles to San Francisco would take a minimum of 10-12 hours for a ship doing 30 knots and no one wants want to do that during the day (you can take the Coast Starlight if you have that many hours to kill and get a much more scenic view).3. In order for this service to be economically feasible, you'd need a ship capable of carrying a large number of people (something in the range of 1,000 at least). Less a ferry and more of an ocean liner.4. The Jones Act of 1920 requires all US-flagged vessels (i.e. the only ships allowed to travel directly between US ports) to be American-built and American-crewed.5. American ship-building is in the fucking gutter and has been for decades. Since 1958, a grand total of ONE passenger ship has been build at an American shipyard, the Pride of America, and only the hull was completed here, the rest of the ship had to be finished in Bremenhaven, Germany.6. California's coastline is notoriously treacherous with San Francisco in particular being littered with dozens of shipwrecks. You'd basically be unable to operate the service for a good 4-5 months out of the year. See >>2069685Don't get me wrong, I'd love to sail LA-SF and never have to fly SFO-LAX or take fucking Amtrash ever again, but I don't think it's feasible under the current circumstances. The only reason that the Alaska Marine Highway is able to operate is because it gets a massive amount of Federal funding on account of being considered a part of the National Highway System.
