https://apnews.com/article/conservative-christians-sin-of-toxic-empathy-c9ab96faf99605e010f487df61d92d8fEmpathy is usually regarded as a virtue, a key to human decency and kindness. And yet, with increasing momentum, voices on the Christian right are preaching that it has become a vice.For them, empathy is a cudgel for the left: It can manipulate caring people into accepting all manner of sins according to a conservative Christian perspective, including abortion access, LGBTQ+ rights, illegal immigration and certain views on social and racial justice.“Empathy becomes toxic when it encourages you to affirm sin, validate lies or support destructive policies,” said Allie Beth Stuckey, author of “Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion.”Stuckey, host of the popular podcast “Relatable,” is one of two evangelicals who published books within the past year making Christian arguments against some forms of empathy.The other is Joe Rigney, a professor and pastor who wrote “The Sin of Empathy: Compassion and its Counterfeits.” It was published by Canon Press, an affiliate of Rigney’s conservative denomination, which counts Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth among its members.These anti-empathy arguments gained traction in the early months of President Donald Trump’s second term, with his flurry of executive orders that critics denounced as lacking empathy.As foreign aid stopped and more deportations began, Trump’s then-adviser Elon Musk told podcaster Joe Rogan: “The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy.”Even Vice President JD Vance, a Catholic convert, framed the idea in his own religious terms, invoking the concept of ordo amoris, or order of love. Within concentric circles of importance, he argued the immediate family comes first and the wider world last — an interpretation that then-Pope Francis rejected.
“Could someone use my arguments to justify callous indifference to human suffering? Of course,” Rigney said, countering that he still supports measured Christ-like compassion. “I think I’ve put enough qualifications.”Historian Susan Lanzoni traced a century of empathy’s uses and definitions in her 2018 book “Empathy: A History.” Though it’s had its critics, she has never seen the aspirational term so derided as it is now.It’s been particularly jarring to watch Christians take down empathy, said Lanzoni, a graduate of Harvard Divinity School.“That’s the whole message of Jesus, right?”Arguing empathy can be good — and badThe word empathy appeared in English for the first time in 1908, taken from a German word, meaning “in-feeling.”Though the word is relatively new to English, the impulse behind it — to feel for or with another — is much older. It forms a core precept across many religions. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” reads a common version of the Golden Rule.Stuckey admits Jesus is an empathetic figure. In her book, the Southern Baptist from Texas writes, “In a way, Jesus embodied empathy when he took on flesh, suffered the human experience, and bore the burden of our sins by enduring a gruesome death.”She’s clear that empathy can be good. But she writes it has been co-opted “to convince people that the progressive position is exclusively the one of kindness and morality.”“If you really care about women, you’ll support their right to choose,” she writes of this progressive line of thinking. “If you really respect people, you’ll use preferred pronouns. … If you’re really compassionate, you’ll welcome the immigrant.”Rigney doesn’t think empathy is inherently wrong, either. He finds fault with excessive or “untethered empathy” that’s not tied to conservative biblical interpretations.
He has been talking publicly about these ideas since at least 2018, when he discussed the sin of empathy on camera with conservative Pastor Doug Wilson. Since 2023, Rigney has worked at Wilson’s Idaho church and seminary, affiliated with the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches.Rigney said initially he experienced pushback from “certain corners of evangelicalism, that at the time were very dialed into questions of the #MeToo movement and abuse or critical race theory, social justice kind of stuff.”This debate over empathy often devolves into arguments over word choices or semantics. Rigney prefers older terms like compassion, sympathy or even pity. The Rev. Albert Mohler leads the flagship seminary of the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest U.S. Protestant denomination. He featured Rigney and Stuckey on his podcast this year and agrees with their empathy critiques.Mohler prefers the word sympathy over empathy.“There’s no market so far as I know for empathy cards,” he said. “There is a long-standing market for sympathy cards.”The role of race and gender in anti-empathy argumentsIn 2014, Mohler did encourage his audience to have empathy. His words came after a white police officer killed Michael Brown, a Black teenager in Ferguson, Missouri.“I look back at that statement now, and I would say it’s nowhere near as morally significant as I intended it to be at the time,” Mohler said. Though expressing empathy for hurting people appeared to be “close to the right thing to do,” he sees it as less helpful now.Stuckey traces her own anti-empathy awakening to the summer of 2020, when racial justice protests roiled the nation. She saw other Christians posting about racism out of an empathy she found misguided. “I reject the idea that America is a systemically racist country,” she said.When she said as much in the months after George Floyd’s murder, her audience grew.
Rigney echoes this critique of systemic racism but reserves most of his ire for feminism, which he blames for many of empathy’s ills. Because women are the more empathetic sex, he argues, they often take empathy too far.He found an encapsulation of this theory at Trump’s inaugural prayer service, where a woman preached from the pulpit. During a sermon that went viral, Episcopal Bishop Mariann Budde pleaded with the Republican president to “have mercy” on immigrants and LGBTQ+ people, prompting a conservative backlash.“Budde’s attempt to ‘speak truth to power’ is a reminder that feminism is a cancer that enables the politics of empathetic manipulation,” Rigney wrote for the evangelical World magazine.Progressive Christian leaders respond“Empathy is not toxic. Nor is it a sin,” said the Rev. Canon Dana Colley Corsello in a sermon at Washington National Cathedral, two months after Budde’s plea from that sanctuary.“The arguments about toxic empathy are finding open ears because far-right-wing, white evangelicals are looking for a moral framework around which they can justify President Trump’s executive orders and policies,” Corsello preached.“Empathy is at the heart of Jesus’ life and ministry,” Corsello wrote in a recent email exchange about the sermon.She added, “It’s so troubling that this is even up for debate.”In New York, the Rev. Micah Bucey first noticed Christian anti-empathy messages after Budde’s sermon. In response, he proposed changing the outdoor sign at Judson Memorial Church, the historic congregation he serves in Manhattan.“If empathy is a sin, sin boldly,” he proposed it say, a catchphrase that borrows its last clause from the Protestant reformer Martin Luther.A photo of the resulting church sign was shared thousands of times on social media.“Our entire spirituality and theology at Judson are built around curiosity and empathy,” Bucey said. “We’ve always considered that our superpower.”
This is not news. It's just liberal crying and seething
>>1428445Found the anti-empathy activist
>>1428447>Cried the butthurt child abusing degenerate Democrat
>>1428440>For them, empathy is a cudgel for the left: It can manipulate caring people into accepting all manner of sins according to a conservative Christian perspective, including abortion access, LGBTQ+ rights, illegal immigration and certain views on social and racial justiceGood post.Yeah it's always fun listening to evangelicals tell us that we need to accept literally every vice otherwise we're going to hell.Pay attention to the last names of the preachers who advise you to sin.
>>1428452>anyway we just let Ghislaine Maxwell out
I'm gonna be honest, anything coming from prosperity gospel types is worth less than the ramblings of a meth addled homeless man. Tell each other why empathy is bad and greed is good.
>>1428445The Devil has taken hold of your heart. I'll pray for you to find the grace of God once more.
>>1428440The christian right aren’t actually christians. They don’t care about any of christianity’s tenants unless they support their actual beliefs. Any that don’t are ignored, discarded, or altered.
Caring about other people is WOKE!!! It's part of the Left's mind control agenda to make you gay.
>>1428440the left have spent the last decade literally saying if your neighbour is a trump supporter let them die. If that isn't cult behavior idk what is.Empathy is just another tool by the piece of garbage on the left to use as a weapon via false empathy don't you care about woman don't you care about kids don't look at what we're doing look at what we're saying don't you care about those innocent little fucking pieces of shit murderers they have families too
>>1428509>>1428500Leftists are immoral subhuman bigotted hypocrites who love to preach the preach but never do the act. Fuck off you disgusting filth of a human
>>1428521You don't know any leftists and get everything you know about them from far-right grifters on xshitter.
>>1428440Forget table flipping and whipping, Jesus would be punching these motherfuckers in the throat.
>>1428527you have 0 self-awareness about how you act and think the world is your fucking soapbox because you talk to like-minded imbred morons on twitter and rddt.You're an absolute scourge on the earth, I don't use twitter you fucking moron I use actual news sources you don't get to bury your fucking actions under ignorance. you're disgusting
>>1428530stop trying to speak english
>>1428521>>1428521>immoral subhuman bigotted hypocrites who love to preach the preach but never do the act.That is exactly the christian right. Like you just described them perfectly, to a T.
>>1428528Nah, jews get other people to do their dirty work.
>>1428530Daywolf? Is this you?Looks like the neocons got ahold of Trump again. Nothing but relabeled "compassionate conservatism" being sold. This didn't end well for the GOP after Bush's second term, but there's more support to try to force Armageddon now from the irrationaly cynical.
>>1428519>the left have spent the last decade literally saying if your neighbour is a trump supporter let them die.Damn bro, nice strawman. You're gonna really scare some crows away with that one.> If that isn't cult behavior idk what is.I'm sorry, which side deemed a dodged assassination attempt as divine intervention? Which side literally reworked their entire party around one man and shuns anyone who dares to speak up against him? Which side had a literal golden idol of their candidate at their convention?
>>1428562its leftists moron, the christian right at best does the shitty think of the children. the leftists do it 5x as obnoxiously and on everything so fuck off with your gaslighting.>>1428580who started the strawmanning and assasination attempts? oh right? go get pissed no one's going to sympathize with the party of hypocrites and domestic terrorists. you literally invented whataboutism just to detract from your fucking sheer hypocrisy you disgusting filth.
>>1428621>go get pissed no one's going to sympathize with the party of hypocrites and domestic terrorists.So Republicans? Reminder they literally had a banner at RNC that said "We are all Domestic Terrorists"
>>1428624ahh yes the republican new york city riots, the republican CHOP, the republican california scum, the republican tesla burning.get your fucking facts straight imbecile.
>>1428628you sure have a stick up your ass today shill
>>1428643I hate hypocrites like you so much I wish ww3 would happen just so you would be blown up while I watch from the sidelines. you have destroy cultural globally you have ruined humanity and you are parasite on the world fuck off.
>>1428650esl
>>1428440Do not commit the sin of empathy. Empathy is moral weakness. God hates weakness. The leftists are God's enemy and yours too. They hate God and His people. They insult God and his People through their degeneracy. A good Christian needs to properly hate in response. These people are not merely deceived, but are the deceivers. Forgiveness and redemption do not exist for these people. As a follower of God, your eye shall not see one touch of pity; your heart shall not know one drop of mercy; you will be strong of body, pure of thought, and righteously wrathful, for that is what God demands.
>>1428663hurry up and drink the koolaid faggot
>>1428664https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzRnDK_Pw6U
esl shill still doesn't understand how text only boards work. everyone point and laugh
>>1428668enjoy losing 2028 demshit
>>1428440>Allie Beth StuckeyShe looks like a slut.
>>1428440You can abuse good will only so much until it is withdrawn.
>>1428509No. Weaponizing a persons sympathy for your situation is scummy and manipulative. Lefties always use the word empathy when they mean sympathy because left wingers are all perfect examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect.>>1428580lol. Stop gaslighting faggot. We've all seen the social media posts.>>1428651>>1428668Careful. I caught a three day ban for calling some anon esl. That's trolling, and you can only do that outside on /b/
>>1428663That's the exact opposite of what my bible says for some reason
>“Empathy becomes toxic when it encourages you to affirm sin, validate lies or support destructive policies”How do you respond without seething uncontrollably? Also, C/D whether progressives exploit Christian compassion for selfish gain.
>>1428740GIVE a man a fish, yiu feed him for a day. TEACH a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
>>1428740>affirm sin, validate lies or support destructive policiesWhich is what the Christian right does.
>>1428744Thus post brought to you by the same hands that will lecture on the finer points of a religion they have nothing but contempt for.
>>1428746>It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God>Gives all their money to a millionaire who then gilds the shit out of the white houseDo I need to get out the golden idol to him btw?
>>1428746>the same hands that will lecture on the finer points of a religion they have nothing but contempt for.evangelicals already do that
>>1428746Empathy not being a sin is not a fine point.
>>1428749Try again. Sympathy. You mean Sim. Pah. The. Sympathy. And you abuse it to manipulate people.>>1428747Do you honestly think being rich is a sin?
>>1428750you're a simp for pathological liars
>>1428750Sympathy is not a sin.Empathy is not a sin.
>>1428749You got that right.
>>1428519>the left have spent the last decade literally saying if your neighbour is a trump supporter let them die.You made this up in your head
>>1428768i think it's more of a sinclair talking point that he's shilling
>>1428753>>1428768I see you're stuck on loop.It's also not a sin to refuse to fall prey to emotional manipulation. And we have all seen the social media posts. The internet never forgets.Oh. Still waiting for that anon who brought up the eye if a needle thing to answer if they believe being rich is a sin.
>>1428778it's not a sin to get rid of evil either
>>1428718Now that you mention it, all the ones I find don't have that either. Weird. >>1428746Why should I respect your religion when you don't either? Christianity is about being kind to all, even those not kind to you. Why the fuck did God humble himself into the body of a man and die for the sins of mankind if the point was to be callous and angry? Christians are supposed to be BETTER than godless atheists, for fuck's sakes. They're supposed to be loving thy neighbor and helping the poor and downtrodden while atheists worship money and only care for themselves. When the fuck did that change?
>>1428740He's affirming one of the biggest lies of our time. He's a hypocrite at best.
Honestly it's really funny watching so-called Christians echoing the arguments of Simon Magus. Peter blew you the fuck out millenia ago. Read your bibles.
>>1428787You have eyes, but you cannot see. You think you understand Christian theology, yet you close your ears and mind every time an actual Christian points out your misunderstandings. I hope you see the truth before it is too late.
>>1428778>It's also not a sin to refuse to fall prey to emotional manipulation.I didn’t say that was a sin. The Christian right is saying empathy is a sin. They’re wrong.
>>1428768https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/11/14/connecticut-teacher-trump-video/76251011007/https://nypost.com/2025/05/03/us-news/maine-high-school-teacher-joanna-st-germain-says-president-trump-and-followers-need-to-die-in-sick-facebook-posts/the second one is especially aggregious, Let me use your own party's words against you, verbatum you should die.>>1428771I live in reality not in your delusions idk who the F sinclair is i'm basing this off fired academia professors or staff who have repeatedly asked for political violence. you are a party of hypocrites with your head buried in the sand.
>>1428793Nope.
>>1428796>Let me use your own party's words against you>Two random teachers
>>1428803nice goal post moving you fucking disgusting narcissist never take responsability for your own actions huh. pathetic loser.
>>1428801Yup.>>1428804>narcissist never take responsability for your own actionsTrump.
>>1428805>its just 1 person like me>its just 1 professor>its just 1 small group>its just 1 politician>i didn't vote for him he's from another state>its just 1 person not mejust kill yourself you goalposting moving human filth.meanwhile omg look rittenhouse is evil richard spenser evil all the magas are evil out to kill me and u!!!.god no self-awareness moron imbecile absolute cretin.Trump is in power right now because of people like you and>>1428803
>>1428809Wow you literally showed the strawmanning process in real time. Hey question; does this apply to those "hang all democrats" types too?
>>1428810seeing as you didn't denounce the democrats asking for political violence why would I care, you should just go ahead and get hanged. Or fed to a crocodile.
>>1428813Oh wow look who's advocating for political violence.
>>1428820>act like absolute pieces of shit>call for violence and lynchings>people retaliate>oh no look we're not the violent ones, two wrongs don't make a right be kind be better don't be violent.Ok hypocrite, please just get lynched already
>>1428821So basically>Some random dems said to punch republicans!>this basically means all dems said to punch republicans!>That's why we have to kill all dems!
>>1428822Indiana teacher wears shirt calling for the 86'ing of Trump ...CT teacher resigned after video threatening Trump voters ...Teachers who cheered Trump assassination attempt ...Waterville Maine High School Teacher Incites Violence against trump and his supportersProfessor who suggested shooting men who won't vote for Kamala harrisI just googled it and on the first page of google i have 5 different teachers calling for the murder of political opponents and people who voted for them.you're such a disingenuous bigot there's no point arguing with human scum like you, just know when you get hunted down because this shit always goes round circle people will be out there relishing your tears.
>>1428822you're as likely to commit political violence as a druggy is to overdose, yes YOU not some random dems people like you with your rethoric
>>1428824Hey remember that trump supporter that literally shot two dem lawmakers?I can pull up random MAGAts calling for the deaths of all libs all day lmao. And a few that actually did it too.
>>1428827you can think of 1 example, i have dozens on every single google search page. democrats are disproportionally more violent you wanna know why i know that because every crazy righty gets blared across the news cycle 24/7 every lefty gets minimal coverage and hidden away.you're a sex pest and a violent group of bigots
>>1428828>https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-democrats-violence>https://www.wired.com/story/trump-shooting-far-right-calling-for-violence-war/>https://epgn.com/2022/06/15/pastors-in-idaho-and-texas-call-for-execution-of-lgbtq-people/>https://www.newsweek.com/pastor-urges-trump-admin-shoot-democrats-journalists-if-they-conspired-rig-election-1551246>https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/-some-folks-need-killing-north-carolina-gop-nominee-endorses-political-violence-in-a-church-214437445694
>>1428829>2018>after the assassination attempt which everyone should agree with if leftists are violent terrorists you don't just sit still for them to shoot again.>2022, this one's a bit rough so i'll give you that>2020 and if someone commits treason and election fraud they deserve it>post assassination attemptgot anything relevant? everything you have is a nothingburger or people saying if the leftists start shooting which they already did by that point people should shoot them back.you're just a terrorist going only we get to be politically violent.
>>1428829>>https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-democrats-violenceok just fuck off you imbecile she didn't even say anything, the person running her account liked a facebook comment you fucking disingenuous liar.
This thread is full of retards who can't look past their own nose and are incapable of understanding nuance.>people in power on both sides push wedge issues to rile people on their side up>the divide grows wider and wider, fear of the other side is more easily justified>social media and negativity bias only feed into one another, so people are only exposed to the worst examples of other people because that is what gets clicks>now you have people ITT who are saying one dimensional shit, they don't even see how a very small amount of very loud people are responsible for them thinking the "other side" is out to get them all the time because they saw x, y, z on social media>Fear of the other side only feeds into escalation + more frequent negative encounters with people who have different beliefs on wedge issues and it becomes a positive feedback loop>Conversation eventually devolves to what you see here: "YOU WANT TO KILLS US" "YOU ADVOCATE FOR POLITICAL VIOLENCE, SO I AM JUSTIFIED IN DOING SO AGAINST YOU"I guarantee you fuckheads yelling at eachother have more in common than the rich assholes you think are on your side. They just funded news corps and influencers to make you think the exact opposite. Now they're trying to convince people sympathy/empathy are bad, because that might make you realize how much you actually have in common, and that is BAD for the powers that be. The right-wing is justifying it in the above way as an appeal to Christian values and allowing sin, the left justifies it with "tolerance for everyone but the intolerant." It is better for them to have an extremely polarized voting base so that productive conversation cannot take place. I don't know how to fix this, it has gotten so bad in recent years I fear we are well beyond the point of no return.
>>1428830>No no but you see the context makes it fine
>>1428831Perfectly normal to like a comment saying the shoot the opposition leader in the head.Oh, and also to reply to a comment asking "Now do we get to hang them ?? Meaning H & O ???" (referring to Clinton and Obama) with "Stage is being set. Players are being put in place. We must be patient. This must be done perfectly or liberal judges would let them off."
>>1428848>. Now they're trying to convince people sympathy/empathy are badOnly ones doing this are the right. Don't act like this is a "both sides!" issue. False neutrality isn't nuance.
>>1428805Nah. Nothing in that article denounces empathy. It only points out the emotional manipulation if the left wing crybullies.
>>1428851>>1428855>murder and violence is fine if you're a leftist>if you're a righty though liking a facebook comment is worth the death penaltyOk you disingenuous imbecile
>>1428851so what's the context that makes it fine from dozens of leftists in academia pushing for murder?oh right nothing you fucking loser that's the different leftists always cope and seethe and their pathetic whataboutism look at them is always fucking stupid because leftists are prodominently the party of violent and terror to the point morons like you are saying oh its fine because they liked a facebook comment I can be a terrorist and call for murder.>>1428855You deserve to be violated for your stupidity
>>1428441I can have empathy for mentally retarded trans people but that does not mean that my empathy should allow them to influence policy
>>1428440>LGBTQ+ rightsAlright, I'm gonna ask a question here and I mean no ill will towards it, I'm literally just a guy that can't find a good source for this beyond Reddit which I refuse to humor, but what exactly are LGBTQ+ rights?Everything ultra Christian conservatives are for is always retarded, but this one always stands out as the "what even is this?" The only one I know of is gay marriage, which I don't have a problem with, but I know that isn't all of it. What even are trans rights? I seriously don't know what rights they want that they don't have. If they wanna take hormones, they can. If they wanna get cosmetic surgery, they can. It's something that's always bugged me because whenever I see "trans rights", I always think to myself "Which rights?". Afaik it always feels like it's alluded to extremely trivial stuff like pronouns, but there has to be more to it than that.I've wanted to make a thread on /lgbt/ asking about this, but I feel like I'll get banned for asking it. Idk the board culture over there.
>>1428886>If they wanna take hormones, they can. If they wanna get cosmetic surgery, they can.No they can't. Plus them actually changing their IDs to their preferred gender isn't allowed either. And you gotta remember it's not just about GETTING rights. It's about KEEPING them.Getting married? They're trying to come after that.Adopt kids? They're trying to come after that.Make displays of affection in public? They're trying to come after that.For fucks sakes, Florida just the other day erased a rainbow sidewalk that was a MEMORIAL to the Pulse Nightclub shooting. A shooting where 49 people died, not even 10 years ago. They did so solely because it was a gay symbol. That shit would be unimaginable in any other context.
>>1428886NTA but it went from "we want to exist" to nowadays where its been hijacked to be a middle-upper class predominantly white self-diagnosed illness used to demand special privileges and protected status.when people say trans right what they're really saying is pamper and listen to us or we're going to ruin your life, we're above the law and we deserve exceptions to be made for us because woe be me I am rich and bored.>>1428887no one cares anymore boomer you burnt up all the goodwill by being obnoxious karens. the vast majority of people think the trans movement is made of sex pests like lily tino, Its funny how all the people in these congress halls that push the trans agenda are almost always white privileged and universally unhinged karens
>>1428440Yes, its time to stop letting leftists use emotional bullshit as a political cudgel to keep destroying the country.We are supposed to view the American worker as a labor statistic where outsourcing jobs and suppressing wages through immigration are good for the economy because it makes the numbers go up. At the same time, we are supposed to view every third world savage as an individual and bend over backwards for whatever sob story they can cobble together.Its complete bullshit to browbeat people into supporting anti-labor policies and cheer on every last drop of wealth being extracted from the working class.
>>1428891But the ones cheering on anti-labor policies are the same ones rallying against migrants. There's a reason the four richest men in the country were all given front seats at Trump's inauguration.
>>1428887>Getting married? They're trying to come after that.It was a mistake allowing this in the first place, the slippery slope fallacy turned out to be not a fallacy at all. >Adopt kids? They're trying to come after that.lgbts shouldn't be around children>Make displays of affection in public? They're trying to come after that.fisting each other during a parade isn't a public display of affectionYou people are disgusting perverts and its long past time for all of that shit to straight back into the closet
>>1428893Thanks for proving exactly why LGBTQ rights are being championed, because you're proving there's a threat to their right to exist.
>>1428892what policies are those?You're caught up in the leftist branding of being pro worker when your sacred cows of immigration and outsourcing are the main drivers of the income inequality you claim to hate so much. And you go along with it due to the emotional bs playing your empathy.The main drivers of the wealth extraction is wage suppression from immigration and outsourcing.Labor is a commodity like anything else and its price is driven by supply and demand.Most of the billionaires are leftists as well.
>>1428894we gave you people an inch and you went straight for the kidsI argued until I was blue in the face in favor of gay marriage. I was wrong. If you people could act like decent human beings instead of disgusting perverts trying to encourage kids to following your lifestyle you might have a point. But you're not decent human beings. You only seek attention and conflict and seek these by doing more and more disgusting shit and going after children.Back to the closet.
>>1428887See this is why this is one of those things that's hard to really grasp. I'm not trans, but in my head if I was rule 63'd into a woman tomorrow, I'd just say 'well fuck it' and continue on with whatever new pronouns I have.So I never really understood the big deal about having preferred gender on ID's. In my head, it should be what sex you are, because physiological stuff is more important if, for example, they're trying to identify you in a car crash or something. Having a new category for intersex, sure, but transgender I don't really get the point of.Having said that, I still believe they should have the right to get married to whoever they want, get surgery, adopt kids, make public displays of affection, all that's individual rights that the person should be allowed to do imo. America has always been about the individual, so they should absolutely be allowed to do whatever they want in that regard. I might find it a little weird, but really at the end of the day it doesn't affect me at all, so who cares? That's something Ultra christians should just have to seethe over.I really thought hormones and shit was allowed in most states, albeit maybe not covered by health insurance, but I always thought it to be under the category of cosmetic stuff so I never questioned that. If it's illegal, it should definitely be legal. But again, maybe it's just because I'm not trans and that experience is completely lost on me, but the pronouns stuff I just could never understand, and I always felt it was such a weird hill to die on. Because all this other stuff is important for the individual's rights, but tacking that on always felt like a bit like it lowered the stakes of everything else. You think I could make an /lgbt/ thread about this to ask? I don't wanna get a 30 day vacation for trying to start shit when I legitimately, actually just want some more perspectives on this that isn't reddit retards.
>>1428895Oh I don't know. How about->Gutting of worker safety>Gutting of unions>Destroying jobs via tariffs>Gutting of healthcare>Literally advocating for more h1b1 visas>Literally advocating for jobs like farms being able to dictate whether their illegal workers are deported, effectively making them slaves
>>1428897>See this is why this is one of those things that's hard to really grasp. I'm not trans, but in my head if I was rule 63'd into a woman tomorrow, I'd just say 'well fuck it' and continue on with whatever new pronouns I have.>So I never really understood the big deal about having preferred gender on ID's. In my head, it should be what sex you are, because physiological stuff is more important if, for example, they're trying to identify you in a car crash or something. Having a new category for intersex, sure, but transgender I don't really get the point of.It's not only a personal thing, but it also makes existing in any place that needs id incredibly annoying because if you pass, then they start doubting your ID because it says M when the person showing is wearing full dress and makeup with years of hrt under their belt, or says F when the person showing it is a bodybuilder in a wifebeater with a full beard.
>>1428900Yeah, alright that's a fair point. I always thought it was more of an affirmation thing, which I thought was kinda stupid.
>>1428898>>Gutting of worker safetysuch as?>>Gutting of unionssuch as? unions are perfectly legal in every single stateImporting cheap labor and outsourcing hurts unions negotiating power as well as the individual.>>Destroying jobs via tariffsjobs are coming back, removing trade protections are why those jobs left in the first placeyou're advocating for outsourcing right now which hurts the working class>>Gutting of healthcaresuch as? nothing of the sort happened. Removing illegals from medicaid and having a work requirement isn't gutting healthcare. >Literally advocating for more h1b1 visasYeah that is bullshit and the vast majority of right wing people hate h1bs and want them all banned. Biden admin saw the largest increase of these btw.>Literally advocating for jobs like farms being able to dictate whether their illegal workers are deported, effectively making them slavesExcept that hasn't happened policy wise and farms are being raided by ICE as well. Also not at all slavery.
>>1428902>such as?>https://www.epi.org/blog/trumps-crusade-against-health-and-safety-regulations-endangers-workers-hobbles-the-environmental-justice-movement-and-sets-the-stage-for-our-next-public-health-crisis/>such as? unions are perfectly legal in every single stateNot for long.>https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-trump-administration-ended-collective-bargaining-for-1-million-federal-workers/>jobs are coming backNo they aren't lol. For example, John Deere tractors just fired 200 workers and closed a factory because Trump's new tariffs made it too expensive to operate.>such as? nothing of the sort happened.Big Beautiful Bill.>Yeah that is bullshit and the vast majority of right wing people hate h1bs and want them all banned.Not Trump.>https://www.reuters.com/world/us/elon-musk-vows-war-over-h-1b-visa-program-amid-rift-with-some-trump-supporters-2024-12-28/>Except that hasn't happened policy wise and farms are being raided by ICE as well. Also not at all slavery.Tell that to Trump.>https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-could-let-millions-illegal-migrants-stay-us-farmers-hospitality-2094586
>>1428903>https://www.epi.org/blog/trumps-crusade-agaactivist bullshit that dives straight into race baiting bullshit>https://www.americanprogress.org/government workers shouldn't be allowed to unionize in the first place, nothing wrong with this>No they aren't lol.Ford is building four new factories and expanding production at existing plants. They are also moving assembly back to the states. Stellantis is still expanding. Many more. John Deere has been going to shit for a long time and is blaming tariffs for making cuts. They also didn't close any factories, just trimming workers. But you have to remember, removing trade protections cost millions of Americans good working class jobs, and many millions more working in supporting industries also lost jobs. Removing trade protections gutted the working class. Leftists in the 90s pretended to care about this and now fight to protect outsourcing instead of stopping it. >Big Beautiful Bill.Removing illegals from government healthcare is a good thing. Adding the work requirement for abled bodied people is a good thing. Its literally 20 hours a week of work or school, or you have to prove you're looking. The underlying assumption here is that you think working class people being dependent on government programs is a good thing. Also, the ACA required employers to provide health insurance, so getting a job will get them health insurance as well. >Not Trump.Trump has implemented restrictions on h1bs, but the entire program needs to be scrapped and every visa canceled. Every single h1b visa is an American being backstabbed. Its interesting you support outsourcing jobs but are seemingly against bringing in cheap foreign labor to replace American tech workers.Why do Americans working in non-tech industries have to compete with cheap foreign labor and not tech workers?You people have literally no core values.>Tell that to Trump.Yet ICE has still been raiding farms since then.
>>1428906>Uh it doesn't count! He just SAID he would do it! He hasn't done it yet!And more familiar types of cope. Enjoy our newly fucked job market thanks to Trump's retardation.
>>1428906>Ford is building four new factories and expanding production at existing plantsLol. That expanded production is new process that results in less jobs. They're actively cutting workers. Plus they don't fix how expensive things are, nor replace the tons of jobs being cut thanks to tariffs closing factories. Same goes for Stellantis. It's rapidly becoming a choice between "Make factory in the US and pay much more for materials and shipping out of the US" or "Keep production outside the us and make US consumers eat the tariffs" and most companies are choosing the latter.
>>1428908your post is just noisesimply having a response isn't an argument >>1428910Building more plants results in less jobs?This is some high grade mental gymnastics.Ford has been cutting corporate positions, not plant positions. They will be hiring people to work the new locations. And you're also back to advocating for outsourcing jobs. You can't advocate for outsourcing and also claim to be pro-labor.>It's rapidly becoming a choice between "Make factory in the US and pay much more for materials and shipping out of the US" or "Keep production outside the us and make US consumers eat the tariffs" and most companies are choosing the latter.Except the companies not bringing production back are eating the tariffs. Prices have barely moved from them. And yes, paying more to make things in the USA is a good thing. Americans having good jobs is more important than rich people lining their pockets. Tariffs work. Leftists have zero core values. You're literally advocating in favor of outsourcing jobs while claiming to be pro-labor.
>>1428922>Building more plants results in less jobs?>https://www.lpm.org/news/2025-08-11/ford-louisville-assembly-plant-to-build-midsize-electric-pickup-truck-adding-2-200-jobs>Whoops we're only securing 2k of the 3k jobs that work here. See ya suckers!>Except the companies not bringing production back are eating the tariffs. Prices have barely moved from them.Delusional. Prices are up 10-20% almost universally.>And yes, paying more to make things in the USA is a good thing. Americans having good jobs is more important than rich people lining their pockets.>YOU WILL OWN NOTHING, PAY MORE, AND BE HAPPY
>>1428650That's very righteous thinking right there, very healthy
