https://www.npr.org/2025/09/28/nx-s1-5555970/multiple-people-shot-mormon-church-michigan-shooter-downAt least four people were killed and eight were injured after a gunman attacked a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints service in Michigan on Sunday morning, police said. The shooter was killed by police.Authorities say the 40-year-old suspect, Thomas Jacob Sanford, rammed his vehicle through the front doors of the church in Grand Blanc Township, about 60 miles northwest of Detroit, before exiting and opening fire with what they described as an assault rifle on the hundreds of worshippers inside.Investigators believe the suspect also deliberately set fire to the church, which appeared engulfed in flames in photos and videos shared on social media."All indications on this investigation are the suspect used an accelerant of some sort, we believe gasoline, and lit the church on fire," James Deir of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Detroit office said during a Sunday evening press conference. Deir said authorities also found "suspected" explosive devices.Authorities said during an evening briefing that two additional bodies were recovered at the church, adding to an earlier death toll of two. It is not known if the two latest victims were shot and killed or died in the fire. There are more victims unaccounted for in the burned-out church, according to Grand Blanc Township Police Chief William Renye.Earlier, Renye praised the two officers who quickly responded to the emergency call in less than a minute and "neutralized" the suspect in the church's parking lot. "We do not believe that there's a threat to the public," he said. "We believe that we have the guy who did this."One of the hospitalized victims was in critical condition and seven are in stable condition, he said on Sunday afternoon.
>>1443088Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer said in a post on X that her "heart is breaking" for the Grand Blanc community. "Violence anywhere, especially in a place of worship, is unacceptable," she added.President Trump said in a post on Truth Social that he had been briefed on the "horrendous" attack and vowed the full support of the FBI. Trump added that it "appears to be yet another targeted attack on Christians in the United States of America."In an early afternoon press conference, Renye did not provide any information about a motive for the attack, but said investigators would search the suspect's residence and cellphone records.Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints spokesperson Doug Andersen called the attack a "tragic act of violence" in a statement posted on the church's website."Places of worship are meant to be sanctuaries of peacemaking, prayer and connection," Andersen added. "We pray for peace and healing for all involved."
>>1443088Everyone will fight over whether this unhinged retard was a "right wing" or "left wing" unhinged retard and no one wants to address the real question which is that should everyone, including unhinged retards of whatever persuasion have full access to guns. That's the discussion America is most afraid of though.
>>1443103>Everyone will fight over whether this unhinged retard was a "right wing" or "left wing" unhinged retardWhich makes you wonder why half of America is incapable of accepting when people like them commit acts of violence. Not only that they continuously use acts of violence to try to score political points without regard for the truth.>unhinged retards of whatever persuasion have full access to gunsThe dude was a vet if we're gonna have guns at all, that's one of the few classes of people that should definitely have them. This one isn't about fucking guns.
>>1443103Left wing, obviously.And murderous left wing loons have all kinds of rights. I say the biggest problem driving these loons insane is constant left wing agitation. If we end the left wing speech no one will have to suffer.
the shills aren't even fun to make fun of anymore, they're just too dumb :'(
>>1443103He drove to the location right?Just ban cars already. #StopVehicleAttacks #OnlyNationWhereThisHappens
>>1443118False equivalency. Also, cars ARE fucking restricted and shit you retard. You need a license to drive but you don't need one to shoot?
>>1443124It's not false equivalence. You're more likely to die in an accident involving an unlicensed driver than a gun.No one needs cars. Cars are legal killing machines. We only have them because they look cool and people want them, the dumbest part is they're not even constitutionally protected.
>>1443131see, i ride a Yamaha, its small.
I bet he found out the the preacherwas fucking his old aldy
>>1443124Who cares, just ban free speech like I said. It's not regulated and anyone can do it. I mean, WTF?
>>1443110Totally clueless.... Is this you Mr President?
My thoughts and prayers go out to those affected by this tragic event.
The important thing is coming together to figure out how this was caused by lefties (who are definitely responsible). It would break my brain to face a reality where my ideology was at fault
>>1443109>The dude was a vet if we're gonna have guns at all, that's one of the few classes of people that should definitely have them. I legitimately laughed when I read this. PTSD riddled vets who systematically get treated like shit from the government when they're back home should be exactly the people most closely monitored given how often things like this happen. But it's your country, if you like assault rifles being readily available to anyone with mental illness then rock on and enjoy the murder sprees All I'm saying is you can't have it both ways. If you want guns to be accessible by all then accept the basic math that it means when an unhinged radicalized idiot with mental problems gets one they are going to use it irresponsibly. If you're okay with that then be okay with it. Don't act shocked and horrified when the inevitable happens.
>>1443231Gonna are easily available in the US because Democrat policies encourage crime. The push for less gun regulation is proportional to the amount of increased crime caused by Democrats
>>1443256The numbers aren't with you. Most crime riddled states are red...
>>1443256typical right wing propagandaThe real answer is that right wingers aren't becoming pirates anymore. The decline in pirates is correlated directly to increasing amounts of gun crime. Study it out, fag
>>1443260What race of people commit those crimes in the red states?
>>1443256Sergei, you're not even trying. Do better or no rubles today
>>1443266>everything revolves around raceHow did you get like this?
>>1443266The same race that voted for those representatives I guess. Can't divorce one from the other, can you?
Americans are gaining gun rights every year. My state just got rid of permits and started constitutional carry for concealed and open carry. Democrats have completely lost on this issue, along with every other issue, but especially this
>>1443267No potato for the Sergei today
>>1443268>Doesn't understand that the most dangerous places are the blackest places, which are Democrat voters>>>14432690/100 Apply yourself, jeet shill
>>1443270>Americans are gaining gun rights every year. My state just got rid of permits and started constitutional carry for concealed and open carry. Schoolkids have completely lost on this issue, along with every other issue, but especially thisfixed it for the shill
>>1443273Fuck them kids
>>1443275>Mr Trump, no, we're trying to distance you from Epstein>please get off the kid Mr. Trump
>>1443272No, seriously, how did you become obsessed with race to the point that it blinds you from all the socioeconomic problems in the world?
>>1443279You're ignoring the the point to deflect the fact that your argument contradicts your world views
>>1443256This isn't about crimes like store robberies or muggings, this is about people using firearms for political and social reasons like assassinating someone they disagree with or shooting up a church of people you think are heathens. Do you want someone unhinged who has political or religious motivations that may be polar opposite to you to have free and easy access to guns and ammunition? That's the question. And I'm not trying to say what I think your answer should be, just to be honest about what you want from your society.
>>1443286Well, they don't want to say anything thats going to stop the shillbux from rolling inPlus they'd want another martyr like Kirk, who literally died while spouting insincere arguments like the shill is now
>>1443286I'm not going to start infringing on people's rights just to stop a statistically insignificant number of deaths. Kirk believed this too and he even died by it. To answer your question, sure, I would absolutely be in favor of banning all Democrats and liberals from owning guns. That is what you would call a common sense gun reform.
>>1443289How do you tell the right wing gun crazies from democrats before they shoot someone though? These people are 100% MAGA up until they shoot someone and its revealed they donated $10 to ActBlue, or voted in a democratic primary half a decade ago. It should be illegal to look like an inbred right winger if you've done either of those actions, I don't know who to trust. Do you think gun retailers need to start requesting voting and donation histories before selling guns? How are we going to detect cash donations?
>>1443289It's funny how you start saying something respectable, that I might not fully agree with but is an understandable position to take. >I'm not going to start infringing on people's rights just to stop a statistically insignificant number of deaths. Kirk believed this too and he even died by it. But then you seem to just throw that in the trash to say you actually do agree with guns being restricted, but when it's someone who's views you disagree with.>To answer your question, sure, I would absolutely be in favor of banning all Democrats and liberals from owning guns. That is what you would call a common sense gun reform.That's the crux of what I'm asking, because if you think seriously for a moment you know you can't have it both ways. Even if you did get that exact scenario, all it does is leave the door open that when the political pendulum swings again the other side has precedent to take the guns of anyone who ever registered Republican or something equally ridiculous. That's why it's a real and serious question, which I am asking to to consider genuinely, not just spew out a response here. What kind of society do you want?
>>1443290>These people are 100% MAGA up until they shoot someoneAbsolutely false>>1443292It's because you're retarded and don't understand that the second part is sarcasm.
>>1443231>PTSD riddled vetsWe already have laws against people with sufficient mental illness owning guns. And vets without PTSD exist.Stop being a dumbfuck. I'm for stricter gun laws, but in no universe is there a good point to disarming vets.
>>1443088Mormons up 1, Christians up 1. Will a MAGA suicide bomber break the tie?
>>1443231>>1443341And just to be abundantly clear, I am not saying this specific vet should have had a gun. I am saying that if he shouldn't have had a gun, that was an enforcement failure, or a policy failure not relating to the regulation of guns, such as investment in mental health support.There is never going to be strict enough gun laws to get guns out of the hands of vets that as far as the government is aware are mentally healthy, and the idea that there should be is ludicrous. Police and military are the 2 groups that are supposed to know what the fuck they are doing so they can be trusted with guns more than any other groups. They should be who is most likely to be responsible gun owners from a regulatory standpoint *absent individualized evidence to the contrary*.Stop trying to make every fucking shooting about guns. There are plenty of fucking shootings better gun laws would have prevented you don't need to try and force every fucking shooting under that umbrella. Unless you're going for a total gun ban, in which case you're mentally ill.
This anon >>1443344 is right. If some retard shot his dick off, I would celebrate that retards right to own a gun. Other people shouldn't have to suffer for it. I'd never make the same statement regarding Charlie Kirk and his shooter though, because more right wing MAGA retards are dumb as shit and can't understand its the same thing.
>>1443343Jesus came back with an AR15 and some gasoline.
>>1443284Cool strawman but answer the question.
>>1443344Only the government should be allowed guns. We don't need free speech, we don't need rights, we should house soldiers marshalling us, we must be able to prove who we are and where we are going, we just need to go to work and go home to Netflix and chill. Gee, someone went crazy with a gun couldn't be social engineering the perfect consumer is it? That couldn't have consequences besides record profits? How can we spin this for more control and more money? Any ideas?
Leftshits are so desperate they have to larp as conservatives now
>>1443443Only in your head, son, just like your girlfriend.
>>1443436>Only the government should be allowed gunsI am not saying only the government should have guns. I am saying arguing the government shouldn't have guns makes you a fuckwit.
>>1443341>We already have laws against people with sufficient mental illness owning guns. And vets without PTSD exist.Yes, utterly limp wristed ones that lead to situations like this.>>1443344>I am saying that if he shouldn't have had a gun, that was an enforcement failure, or a policy failure not relating to the regulation of guns, such as investment in mental health support.Yeah no shit. That's the point. What minor poilicies do exist to regulate people with mental health issues access to firearms.>Stop trying to make every fucking shooting about guns. I'm trying not to laugh. >There are plenty of fucking shootings better gun laws would have preventedExactly. You like your country with retard memelords being able to shoot anyone and anything that triggers their precious feelings then enjoy. Just don't expect any sympathy next time a church full of kids gets murdered.
>>1443483>You like your country with retard memelords being able to shoot anyoneChild, what I would like and what is politically or even practically feasible is not the same thing.America has more guns than people and they are popular and very minimally regulated. Even getting America to a point where all legal guns were fucking registered would take a literal lifetime and the gun lobby losing their hold on US politics. Ending civilian access to firearms completely is never happening absent massive changes to public opinion and a herculean law enforcement effort across a century with a fuckton of bloodshed (bear in mind Prohibition didn't even last a generation).Within the reality we find ourselves, acting like there is some realistic change in gun policy that could have prevented this bullshit makes you look like a fucking whiny idiot. This isn't a situation where a red flag law or a gun safe law or a loss/theft reporting law or a weapon confiscation program for prohibited persons or a firearms licensing law or any of the many simple, rational laws we desperately need could have prevented this shit. It would have taken total or near total confiscation and that shit just isn't fucking happening.But tell me it could if we wanted it badly enough so I can fucking laugh at you.
>>1443493At least you're finally admitting you think there's a problem, you're just too nihilistic and stupid to even have hope of something better. That was the candy I was after this whole time. Delicious. Enjoy your dystopia and your weak willed acceptance of it.
>>1443493>the gun lobby losing their hold on US politics.This may be difficult for you to accept but its not "the gun lobby" its voters. > simple, rational laws we desperately need could have prevented this shit. It would have taken total or near total confiscation and that shit just isn't fucking happening.There are no simple or rational laws that will prevent people committing acts of terror/mass violence. >>1443483You're no American. Your opinion is irrelevant.
>>1443499Go fuck yourself. You only want to ban guns. You don't actually care about the real problem and refuse to even acknowledge it. That's why no one takes you seriously and why you're losing on this issue
>>1443504You want to dissolve the constitution so you can have a win, you'll fold on the guns soon enough. As soon as Trump says you know what we don't need guns, then all you cucks will be like, you know he is right...
>>1443505>You want to dissolve the constitution so you can have a winNo.
>>1443456I guess you're the fuckwit for attributing words I didn't say to me. I said people shouldn't have guns, the government should.
>>1443503>You're no American. Your opinion is irrelevant.I'm not even giving my opinion other than it's funny to watch you hillbillies shooting each other every day and cry about it but feel too impotent to even think about wanting to do anything about it so you just get more and more upset whether this unhinged retard was a rightoid or leftoid
>>1443511You're obsessed with the internal politics of a country you dont live in. Cringe.
>>1443504Bans and sensible regulation are very different. My family hunts, I am not against guns being used as toys by people who are mentally unstable and completely irresponsible. Now you'll call me a liar because it doesn't fit the strawman you want to yell about.
>>1443505>Two more weeksYou're the non American that doesn't even believe in the constitution. Americans are gaining more gun laws every year. Even California and NY are getting fucked by the courts for their unconditional gun laws. >>1443516You don't have any guns.
>>1443516Regulation is a tip toe to ban for Democrats. I refuse to give in to any more regulations. There are already plenty of overlapping laws in place
>>1443527You can't be American, you don't have the same opinion as I do. You're a faggot, enjoy the polar bears, ruskiefag.
>>1443511It is funny. Trickle down cowardice at its finest.
>>1443527>You don't have any guns.Called it. Every one of you makes the exact same half dozen responses to everything. I'll be back next time someone famous gets offed to laugh at the infighting.
>>1443499>At least you're finally admitting you think there's a problem, you're just too nihilistic and stupid to even have hope of something betterHope in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up first.I'm not nihilistic and I do actually hope that some gun reforms will be fucking passed. The end of civilian gun ownership isn't one of them.>>1443503>This may be difficult for you to accept but its not "the gun lobby" its voters.This may be difficult for you to understand, but the GOA is a lobbying group representing voters for the deregulation of guns (literally over 2 million fucking members).Shut the fuck up.>There are no simple or rational laws that will prevent people committing acts of terror/mass violence.Damn. Guess we should start letting people carry on planes again.
>>1443532>>1443536Zero respect for jeets and faggot ass gun grabbers. You're easily defeated by the same low effort arguments because you're wrong and retarded
>>1443260High crime areas are contained in cities that have decades of democrat leadership. Pick a state, then look at the city with the worst crime rates.
>>1443601>state governments don't matter only local governments doThat's retarded and no one believes you.
>>1443601anon you do realize republican-run cities effectively don't fucking exist.
>>1443603Explain how the state govt is more important to crime rates than the city govt.>>1443604There are some that flip occasionally, but the worst ones have 50 years of single party rule.
>>1443607>There are some that flip occasionally, but the worst ones have 50 years of single party rule.Not really. Even the ones with Republican mayors still predominantly vote blue and have blue city councils.
>>1443604Correct. Non whites and liberals only live in the cities. Crime effectively doesn't exist outside of Democrat areas in the country. The whole purpose of the electoral college is to stop communism from taking over
>>1443612ironic, since you're a shill from a crime-ridden post-communist shithole
>>1443607>Explain how the state govt is more important to crime rates than the city govt.State government laws and regulations override city government regulations.>>1443612Can't tell if you're being sarcastically retarded or actually retarded.
>>1443615City DA's catch and release career criminals and plea bargain down sentences. Cities direct their PD's on where to focus and when to make arrests. The city govt is much more involved than the state. It's already illegal at the state and federal level for convicted felons to have firearms.
>>1443614>>1443615Post the top ten most dangerous cities and the racial break down of crime for those cities
>>1443620A surface level observation for shallow thinkers
>>1443620Post what states they are in.
>>1443620>let's divide them by race for no reasonBut why though?
>>1443617Cities are liberal run hellholes that need to be properly reigned in by properly distributed rural Americans. You failed the test. Report to the nearest ICE camp to be deported.
>>1443731you're not american, and the regular military has no desire to attack their own citizens unlike ice. get a real job shill faggot
>>1443734>no desire to attack their own citizens unlike iceThese histrionics are unbearable.
>>1443109Still dodging the question of systematic reform
>>1443757You meant systemic. And no systemic reform I would be in favor of would have prevented this shit. As I said, this one isn't about guns.I regret to inform you that any rational system will be predicated on some degree of trust and this shooter violated that trust.
>>1443729We've already established that the city govt matters more than the state govt.
>>1443276Rent free
