ORIGIN OF U.S. PLAN STIRS CONTROVERSY

With the U.S. delegation led by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the main talks between U.S. and Ukrainian officials got under way in Geneva on Sunday afternoon in a stiff atmosphere at the U.S. mission, soon after Trump complained in a Truth Social post that Ukraine's leadership had shown "zero gratitude" to the U.S. for its efforts and Europe continued to buy Russian oil.

Rubio interrupted the meeting to speak to reporters, saying the talks had been probably the best the U.S. had held with Ukraine since Trump returned to power.

He said changes would be made to the plan to work towards a solution that both Ukraine and the U.S. could support.

"Obviously this will ultimately have to be signed off with our presidents, although I feel very comfortable about that happening given the progress we've made," said Rubio, who arrived in Geneva with U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff.

Andriy Yermak, head of the Ukrainian delegation, was at pains to thank Trump for his commitment to Kyiv during the brief remarks, before he and Rubio returned to their talks. Minutes later, Zelenskiy himself offered thanks to Trump.

Since the U.S. plan was announced, there has been confusion about who was involved in drawing it up. European allies said they had not been consulted.

As officials began meeting, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz said the goal was to craft a plan acceptable to Ukraine that could be used in a negotiation with Russia.

"Right now, I'm not yet convinced we're going to get the solution President Trump wants in the next few days," Merz said on the sidelines of a G20 meeting in Johannesburg.

Before heading to Geneva, Rubio insisted on X that Washington had authored the plan after remarks from some U.S. senators suggesting otherwise.

Senator Angus King said Rubio had told senators the plan was not the administration's position, but "essentially the wish-list of the Russians."

A PERILOUS MOMENT FOR UKRAINE

The draft U.S. plan, which includes many of Russia's key demands and offers only vague assurances to Ukraine of "robust security guarantees", comes at a perilous moment for Kyiv.

Russia has been making gains on parts of the front, albeit slowly and, according to Western and Ukrainian officials, the advances have been extremely costly in terms of lives lost.

The transportation hub of Pokrovsk has been partially taken by Russian forces and Ukrainian commanders say they do not have enough soldiers to prevent small, persistent incursions.

Ukraine's power and gas facilities have been pummelled by drone and missile attacks, meaning millions of people are without water, heating and power for hours each day.

Zelenskiy himself has been under pressure domestically after a major corruption scandal broke, ensnaring some of his ministers and people in his close entourage.

He has warned that Ukraine risked losing its dignity and freedom - or Washington's backing - over the U.S. plan.

Kyiv had taken heart in recent weeks after the United States tightened sanctions on Russia's oil sector, the main source of funding for the war, while its own long-range drone and missile strikes have caused considerable damage to the industry.

But the draft peace plan appears to hand the diplomatic advantage back to Moscow. Ukraine relies heavily on U.S. intelligence and weapons to sustain its war against Russia.
___

>"For many Ukrainians, including soldiers fighting on the front lines, such terms would amount to capitulation after nearly four years of fighting in Europe's deadliest conflict since World War Two."
Sunk Cost Fallacy is unironically ethnically cleansing Ukrainians

>We worked with Russia to come up with these terms of surrender just for you. You should be GRATEFUL.
Honestly if Ukraine were to assassinate Trump, I wouldn't blame them.

>>1459625
It's not really a sunk cost fallacy when the terms of surrender include no security guarantees and cutting their military force.

Unless you're talking about Russia's side of the war. That shit's absolutely a sunk cost fallacy combined with their already in complete shambles economy now being barely propped up by being centered on war.

>>1459622
>Senator Angus King said Rubio had told senators the plan was not the administration's position, but "essentially the wish-list of the Russians."
Holy kek

>>1459629
>It's not really a sunk cost fallacy
The article literally just said that they didn't want to surrender because they have already invested too much manpower and resources.
Langley doesn't think Ukraine is going to win otherwise they wouldn't be doing this.

>>1459631
>>1459629
>>1459625
You do realize sunk cost fallacy doesn't apply when the alternative is destruction, right? You don't go "Sunk cost fallacy" to the guy who has spent the last four hours fighting a pack of wolves to stop them from ripping his throat out.

>>1459632
you don't understand, if he doesn't do the bidding of his oligarch masters he won't have solid employment

>>1459632
>fighting wolves
It's more like being in a casino bankrolling your friend, but it's been hours and he's five figures deep. And when you suggest that he cut his losses he cries that you just want him to be poor, when in reality you just want to prevent a bad situation from getting worse.

>>1459635
any more disingenuous metaphors for us, kremlin shill

>>1459636
I still don't understand how wanting peace makes me a kremlin shill, putin apologist etc.
I lived through the Afghanistan war and ate a big bowl of shit because politicians lied to us about the necessity of fighting to 'protect democracy'. It was a waste of money and manpower, and everybody was talking about this shit until Biden got into power and started telling everybody how important Ukraine is.
I just want this war to end and for all NAFO niggers to vacate /k/

>>1459637
you can't help but project, can you faggot. how did you end up with such an ignominious occupation

>>1459637
>wanting peace
I do too.
As long as Putin withdraws completely from Ukraine - including Crimea - and apart from an embassy in Kyiv & trade, Putin never so much as looks in the direction of Ukraine in perpetuity.
Remember that last US helicopter taking off from the US Embassy in Saigon decades ago? Now US has diplomatic relations with that same country it was once at war with, there's a US embassy in Hanoi & consulate in Ho Chi Minh City, and NVidia investing heavily in Vietnam.
So what's Putin's excuse for not doing the same?

>>1459639
They're having a hard time since their Twitter accounts were outed as being registered outside the US
Imagine being retarded enough to fall for Republicunt lies in Afghanistan, and immediately deepthroating the lies again and pretending Ukraine is the same

>>1459631
>The article literally just said that they didn't want to surrender because they have already invested too much manpower and resources.
Actually it doesn't, but if it did that would be stupid and wrong.
>man being mauled by bear doesn't give in and accept the sweet release of death because he's invested too much time and energy into not dying

>>1459637
Capitulating to an aggressor nation with no respect for national borders and a long history of wiping their ass with treaties by letting them keep the territory they've stolen with zero consequences is not making peace
It's dragging the world back into the dark ages of imperialism, and is guaranteeing more bloodshed and death in the coming years
You're either a shill or retarded. Either way, your opinion is worthless

Well, Ukraiggers did start the war. >>1459632
Just apologize to Russia and negotiate your land back in return to paying them reparations of war

>>1459620
>How dare they not appreciate me demanding their surrender!? So ungrateful!

>>1459662
shitty bait

>>1459665
It's not bait. Only two things are certain in the future, more dead Ukraiggers and you seething about Russia

>>1459660
>It's dragging the world back into the dark ages of imperialism, and is guaranteeing more bloodshed and death in the coming years
Can you elaborate on this?
I live in Michigan, how would Russia taking Ukraine affect me personally?
I don't need sources cited or whatever, just give me the broad strokes.

>>1459663
It's difficult to negotiate a peace in the West when the typical shitlib narrative is that Ukraine was just peacefully recognizing trans rights until Putler came in with this Nazi Waffen SS to steal the Infinity Gauntlet from Zelenskyy Potter.

>>1459680
>>1459662
Conservatives really live in an alternate reality to justify their war crimes.

Putin being further embroiled in his own equivalent of Vietnam wouldn't affect me personally, just as he ultimately being humiliated by Ukraine just as America was by Vietnam all those years ago would affect me even less.
Now give me a Ph.D-level thesis on how Russia losing to Ukraine would affect Putin-lovers outside of Russia personally.

>did the Allies annex Sudetenland?
>did the Allies invade Poland?
Did NATO annex Crimea?
Did NATO invade Ukraine?

>>1459680
True. There was some shit that popped this off.
None of Putin's business, really.
But old St. Ukraine has never really been all that clean.

>>1459620
Not my problem. They should have never killed Russians, they get what they deserve.

>>1459687
NATO is a criminal organization and nothing makes me more happy than seeing zog bots getting blasted into micro zogglets.

Old hypocrite Putin will never be clean
https://www.military.com/video/off-duty/odd/akward-moments-with-vladimir-putin/3129473236001
Ivans should never have existed in Ukraine in the first place, thus they're denied the right to exist now. They get what they deserve.
Ivans being denied their right to exist by any means & ways used by Ukrainians, certainly via weapons sent to them from other countries? Not my problem.

Russia is a criminal organization and nothing makes me more happy than seeing Ivan bots getting blasted into micro Ivanlets

>>1459697
Your brain has been fried by the world's least convincing propaganda

you can tell the russia shills aren't truly christians because they're wasting their sundays wishing death on people instead of going to church and spending time with their families

>>1459716
Pretty sure they aren't human

>>1459716
>spending time with their families
As opposed to that which spends time with the children of other families
https://files.catbox.moe/qll1mt.jpg

Why are there so many Russians on this board?

>>1459678
No more NATO.
No more free shipping and trade.
Expensive products because no more made in Asia.
Every state in the world a nuclear power, because nothing else guarantees protection.
Islamic countries capable and willing to nuke the west if not convert.
No more microchips because some things only done in Asia.
Basically back to 1950's living conditions but with overpopulation and cramped living.

>>1459732
Because 4chan is filled with republican useful idiots that will regurgitate their propaganda no questions asked. It started during the 2016 election and hasn't stopped since.

>>1459735
>No more NATO.
There's a lot to unpack here, but this in particular makes the least sense.
Ukraine isn't in NATO, so why would Russia taking Ukraine mean that NATO dissolves? The US is chiefly responsible for patrolling shipping lanes all across the world.

>>1459738
Anon didn't need sources.
So don't have them to support this.
But this how things will shake out.

US be made irrelevant and no longer be allowed or capable to patrol shipping lanes.
Europe already talking about potentially go to war with Trump.
Reading signs.

>>1459739
>Europe already talking about potentially go to war with Trump.
That's an insane thought.
The US is more than half of NATO's combined strength and physically unassailable. The only way the US could fall is through civil unrest.

>>1459741
European elites talking about it. That in newspapers.
Also talking European army becoming so big no war feasible.
Europe 5% of GDP defence budget means European military strength 170% of USA without account PPP.

Delusional if not take serious.

Military power can shift less than decade if USA forsakes Ukraine and Europe.

Has happened before.

>>1459743
talk like caveman, carry big stick

>>1459744
Big stick big effect.

Confirmation bias strong in you.

>>1459743
>Delusional if not take serious.
I wouldn't mind if America liberated Germany and the UK, but there is a reason why they are begging the US to support Ukraine.

>>1459749
> but there is a reason why they are begging the US to support Ukraine.

Yeah, now.

Won't be case in 10 years if drop Ukraine support, because know Russia coming and Trump Putin's sucky.

>>1459712
>>1459732
>>1459737
>>1459716
Stop being a useless coward and move your ass to the front lines right now. I don't want to see you ever again here just bitching and doing nothing.

>>1459750
Don't be a coward and DO IT.
https://www.ildu.com.ua/

>>1459751
but i'm american, russia shill. you're projecting again

>>1459752
No.
When I do, American hegemony over.

>>1459752
Why would he? America wanted and took up the mantle of responsibility. That's not something you can throw off without consequences.

>>1459751
>Still using this excuse
Big problems require collective action. it's far more effective for me to stay here and call out the Republicans for being traitorous bastards for supporting Russia and to support my local democratic politicians who do back Ukraine, so that the entire resources of the United States can be mobilized to assist Ukraine collectively.

>>1459753
>>1459754
>>1459756
>>1459757
You are a bunch of cowards.

>>1459759
After you.