Grace, 30, from Melbourne, who declined to give her last name, and her partner Joel Sargent, 30, told the AP they were in their hotel room when they heard a banging sound and looked out of their window to see people running down the street, hiding behind trees and cars.

People were screaming, and the gun sounded so loud,” Grace said. “It was constant; it would have been over 50 (shots), easily.”

Police said their operation was “ongoing” and that a “number of suspicious items located in the vicinity” were being examined by specialist officers, including an improvised explosive device found in one of the suspect’s cars. Emergency services were called to Campbell Parade about 6.45 p.m. responding to reports of shots being fired.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese told reporters in Canberra that he was “devastated” by the massacre.

“This is a targeted attack on Jewish Australians on the first day of Hanukkah, which should be a day of joy, a celebration of faith, an act of evil, antisemitism, terrorism that has struck the heart of our nation,” Albanese said. “There is no place for this hate, violence and terrorism in our nation.”

Albanese said the authorities were working to identify everyone involved in the attack.

“Let me be clear we will eradicate it amidst this vile act of violence and hate will emerge a moment of national unity where Australians across the board will embrace their fellow Australians of Jewish faith,” he said. “The evil that was unleashed at Bondi Beach today is beyond comprehension, and the trauma and loss that families are dealing with tonight is beyond anyone’s worst nightmare.”

Mass shooting deaths in Australia are extremely rare. A 1996 massacre in the Tasmanian town of Port Arthur, where a lone gunman killed 35 people, prompted the government to drastically tighten gun laws and made it much more difficult for Australians to acquire firearms.

Significant mass shootings this century included two murder-suicides with death tolls of five people in 2014, and seven in 2018, in which gunmen killed their own families and themselves.

In 2022, two police officers were shot and killed by Christian extremists at a rural property in Queensland state. The three shooters in that incident, conspiracy theorists who hated the police, were also shot and killed by officers after a six-hour siege in the region of Wieambilla, along with one of their neighbors.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/ckgk391yzm7t?post=asset%3A4a96f188-6b11-41b2-a8e4-3b2b5854571b#post
>Eyewitness video captures moment man tackles and disarms one of the Bondi shooters
>Premier Chris Minns pays tribute to the man who was filmed wrestling with one of the attackers, taking their gun and forcing their retreat.
>"That man is a genuine hero, and I've got no doubt there are many, many people alive tonight as a result of his bravery."

videos of the shoot out
https://files.catbox.moe/n5dlx6.mp4
https://files.catbox.moe/dh6jvw.mp4

>>1465259
Wow, they fucking suck. Confirmed non-whites.

Wow, >>1465262 fucking sucks. Confirmed liar.

>>1465250
"In 2022, two police officers were shot and killed by Christian extremists at a rural property in Queensland state. The three shooters in that incident, conspiracy theorists who hated the police, were also shot and killed by officers after a six-hour siege in the region of Wieambilla, along with one of their neighbors." They wernt cristians... they were self-proclaimed sovereign citizens lol

>>1465265
Whites kill their targets more than they miss. This is a fact.

>>1465268
What?

>>1465262
some random bystander took their guns away too

>>1465306
>https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/crime/hero-bystander-tackles-disarms-bondi-beach-gunman-potentially-saving-multiple-lives/news-story/e83279628e576f171955f9429ed57e92
>Speaking to 7NEWS, a man named Mustafa revealed the hero was his 43-year-old cousin, Ahmed al Ahmed.
>Mr al Ahmed, a father-of-two, had no experience with firearms, his cousin said, and just happened to be walking past when he chose to risk his life by confronting the gunman.
Islamophobias in shambles

>diversity is our stre-ACK

>>1465321
Just because you can train pitbulls doesn't mean you aren't retarded for keeping one in the house.

>>1465291
What?

>>1465325
>muslims are pitbulls in this analogy
And white girls are delicate little poodles and yorkies in heat waiting for the pit bulls to mount them

>>1465328
>brave muslim swims three thousand miles to shoot drowning child

>>1465330
He flew in an airplane retard

>>1465247
Sorry, jews, I'm just not going to think about you during Christmastime at all outside of a short prayer that you find Jesus Christ.
I would have preferred the murders did not take place and I bet that's the case. I just don't believe jews or the jewish media.
I bet no one died.

>>1465321
ok NOW I know it's fake.

>oy vey all dis eeugh Christmas everywhere is getting my dunce cap down!
>I KNOW
>let's make a dirty Christian-hating Muslim the hERO!

Do you Anon actually believe this shit?

>>1465325
lol this

>>1465336
>only jews died
>won't someone think of the christians!
lmao

>>1465338
No one died, anon. It's fake. Use your head.
Trump probably ordered it. He called up his faggot friends in Oz and asked them to use Bondi beach because he fucks Pam Bondi. Then a mud slime is a hero?

Yeah fake. Go on and call me names, but the irony is that I'm the most sane anon ever.

“Let me be clear we will eradicate it amidst this vile act of violence and hate will emerge a moment of national unity where Australians across the board will embrace their fellow Australians of Jewish faith,”

I don't think the people he's embracing are there to embrace his people. What a fucking clown world.

>>1465321
Had there been no muslims there, there would have been no attack at all

>>1465341
It's fake. Jews do this every single year. They're jealous of Christmas and hateful of Jesus, so they put the spotlight on themselves any way they can, including false flags.
The mud slime "hero" was the biggest tip off.
Outside of this thread, pay it no mind, else the slimeballs win.

>>1465342
Not wanting to be shot by terrorists is racism don't you understand

>>1465342
We live in a society

>>1465345
>You're a terrorist and we don't want you in our country!
>No, you haven't DONE any terrorism yet, but people who look LIKE you do terrorism, so you're basically a terrorist!
>What? No, the who look like ME aren't ME. Why should I be associated with someone just because they look like me?

Net & Ya-Hoo caused this.

>>1465354
Probably and it's fake.

>>1465343
As long as whites lap it up like obedient dogs it's worth doing, I suppose. Don't the Australians still have a couple of rights that have yet to be taken away? Those need to go, to fight antisemitism.

>>1465356
>Don't the Australians still have a couple of rights that have yet to be taken away?

No none. They have guns but:
>they must be kept disassembled
>and the ammunition must be kept locked at the opposite end of the abode
>police are allowed to inspect homes at any time they wish

>>1465358
So those rights may have been the aim of this event.

>>1465360
And a right wing conspiracy theory was born.

>>1465360
lol yeah as laughable as those rights are, I guess you're right.

>>1465361
That just happen to be proven correct again and again.

>>1465342
>Had there been no men there, there would have been no attack at all
Fix'd

>>1465321
Genuinely, why do you people defend Islam? It's an idealogy, not a people, and it's extremely against a lot of things you care about: Women's rights, gay rights, trans rights, etc. It's extremely traditional, and if it were a western tradition you would despise it more than you despise Christian fundamentalism. And yet: "Islamaphobia!" You're literally only permissive of it because it's culturally non-white, that's nakedly why you're ok with it. Makes a mockery of your stated values and shows everyone that your opponents are right when they say you're just racially self-hating, anti-white lunatics who don't care about any of the things they say they do.
How do you square that in your head? Do you even try?

>>1465364
Nta, but tend to agree that men being more feminine would help a bit instead of this MANLY BERSERKER RAGE being "acceptable."

>>1465361
Look at the language used by the Premier and Prime Minister. It's not really even a conspiracy.

>>1465363
>>1465368
Are either of you Australian by chance?

>>1465368
Nta, but what language? (I try to ignore government assholes as much as possible.)

>>1465369
I am not, which increases my chances of being correct a thousand fold.

>>1465369
Not I.
>>1465370
>This attack was designed to target
>The massacre was declared a terrorist attack due to the event targeted and weapons used
>This is a targeted attack on Jewish Australians
>an act of evil, antisemitism, terrorism
>struck the heart of our nation
>***“There is no place for this hate, violence and terrorism in our nation.”***
>***Let me be clear we will eradicate it amidst this vile act of violence and hate will emerge a moment of national unity***
>The evil that was unleashed at Bondi Beach
Priming people to be fearful, exaggerating the danger, and using language to indicate that they have a notion toward more laws in the guise of alleviating the aforementioned primed fear. And, of course, the requisite "national unity" because everybody of course agrees that the way to alleviate government-created hysteria is by giving up human rights.
It's been done before many times. It'll be done more in the future.

>>1465347
>we know your cows aren't having calves so let's replace them with bears
>yes, I know that bears are known for eating cows but these bears are just like your cows
>also just to make sure we keep everybody safe, we're taking your guns away
>have you considered that these bears are killing cows because you treat them poorly and don't feed them enough?
>don't be a bigot

>>1465373
Truth. I just laugh at it. No one died. In 2025 I should have easy access to proof, but we both know that isn't even close to happening.
Even if it were true, then they still make a huge show of sucking off the jews, but if it happened to anyone else, the response would be far more muted.
And they wanna remind me during MY LORD's HOLY SEASON, that jews are miserable, lying retards?
HA!
I mean: HO HO HO HO NO.

>>1465376
LOL Your comment should be framed and hung in all schools.

>>1465365
>Genuinely, why do you people defend Islam?
I don't. I defend the right of people to believe whatever the fuck they want to believe as long as they aren't acting like assholes.

Islamaphobes all act like assholes. Maybe if one of you takes some bullets for your fellow man, I'll speak up for you, but I don't see that happening.

>>1465376
>>1465378
samefag

>>1465379
>I defend the right of people to believe whatever the fuck they want to believe as long as they aren't acting like assholes.
Right. Because annual terrorist attacks are apparently just an acceptable cost if the west wants to avoid acting "assholes".

>>1465381
>Just ignore the yearly "Racist retard shoots up a church/mosque/supermarket/school" incidents

>>1465380
No, but you wish. Go to rebbit if you want to pile on.

>>1465379
"Just don't be an AsShOle!"
Okay, great life philosophy for dealing with an ideology that says they're not supposed to tolerate trans, gays, etc. which, again, you supposedly care about a lot. Did you even think about that for 2 seconds?

>>1465383
Why not just go back to twitter so you can yell at the actual leftists?

>>1465382
..what are you arguing? That we need these people here otherwise it will only be white people doing these attacks?

>>1465384
Oh so Christianity?

>>1465385
You're projecting. You go back. I've never even used twatter.

>>1465387
When was the last time a Christian drove a van through a crowd of people because someone insulted Jesus? Tell me honestly.

>>1465386
Why not exile the whites too? Is it because you're one of them?

>>1465390
>literally nobody gets to have a civilized society unless Muslims are allowed to commit terrorist attacks
Behold: the leftwingers final form.

>>1465382
The difference is those people are already here, the Muslims aren't. Why bring over a group of people that has higher average rates of violence, child rape, and takes more than they contribute in taxes if we don't have to? They don't assimilate and their culture is obviously incompatible with western society, especially, ironically, its more liberal values. It's just suicidal empathy.

>>1465381
>Right. Because annual terrorist attacks are apparently just an acceptable cost if the west wants to avoid acting "assholes".
Feel free to throw the terrorists out of the country. They're assholes.

As a white Christian man, I obviously can't get behind throwing out everyone in the same demographic group as terrorists though.

>>1465384
>Okay, great life philosophy for dealing with an ideology that says they're not supposed to tolerate trans, gays, etc. which, again, you supposedly care about a lot.
Yes, judging individuals by their words and actions is a great life philosophy. Really helps sort out the assholes from the non-assholes. You're acting like I'm defending people just for being Muslim. I'm not. The shooters were Muslim. They're assholes. It's really not that hard to judge people as individuals.
>Did you even think about that for 2 seconds?
Yes? Did you? You're acting shocked someone that doesn't tolerate discrimination wouldn't discriminate. How does becoming a hypocritical bigot help me avoid promoting bigotry?

>>1465389
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack

>>1465389
September 28 of this fucking year.

>>1465387
Mentioned above, retard.
>>1465365
If it's bad, then it's bad. Not bad when white people do it, but good or morally neutral when non-whites do.

>>1465389
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Grand_Blanc_Township_church_attack

>>1465395
lol
You atheists have nothing as usual.

>>1465396
>runs his car through a church
>"No motive for the attack has yet been determined."
Wow.

>>1465391
What leftwingers?

>>1465393
You're not judging them by their words AND actions; their words say they're not tolerant of those groups. You're judging them by their actions. Have you even considered that they don't act against such groups because, in a western society where they're a small minority, they can't? Gee, I wonder what it would look like if they weren't a minority, how would they treat them then? Oh, right, they have their own countries where Islam is a guiding ideological framework, and in those places they don't tolerate those people at all and occassionally throw them off buildings.
>You're acting like I'm defending people just for being Muslim. I'm not
Suppose you're not the same person, but you responded to a post made about how people who say "Islamaphobia" make a mockery of their other stated beliefs, like wanting various groups to have rights that Islam is obviously opposed to them having, by using "Islamophobic". YOU should be "Islamophobic" according to your other values, but you're not because you're values are inconsistent.

And not tolerating discrimination means discriminating against discriminatory actors and ideologies, numbskull. You already subconsciously understand this as it relates to white, right-wing discriminatory thinking, why is it hard to wrap your head around when the source is non-white?

>>1465393
>As a white Christian man, I obviously can't get behind throwing out everyone in the same demographic group as terrorists though.
Then you're an idiot, because it's a single demographic group that's committing the vast majority of terrorist attacks.

The only reason why these attacks are allowed to continue is because people like you in the West allow them to live in our countries. You're arguably worse than they are on a purely moral basis.

>>1465407
>>1465408
>God why can't you just hate an entire religion like I do?
No.

>>1465408
I'm a Christian and I agree with this^
Desert people need to stay in their deserts to commit all manner of atrocities far over there and not here.

>>1465410
Nta, and God isn't wanting anyone to hate, but discernment and defense is proscribed.

>>1465407
Because not every muslim is a terrorist the same way not even christian is a terrorist. You can't get that through your thick skull, can you? Because you are one thing and obviously the extreme elements of YOUR thing aren't representative, but the extreme elements of the thing you AREN'T are obviously representative of that thing.

>>1465413
Nta, but the Koran), however you want to spell it, LITERALLY SAYS TO LIE AND DECEIVE THOSE OTHER RELIGIONS AND TO PLAY NICE UNTIL MUSLIM NUMBERS ARE SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO ATTACK AND MURDER ALL NON-MUSLIMS.

It might be possible that you aren't as smart as you thought you were.

>>1465410
You don't need to "hate" them, but choosing to look the other way when their ideology opposes people having rights you think they should have while condemning those culturally nearer to you for doing the same makes you a hypocrite. Your position is not rational and, thus, not genuine either.

>>1465415
Yeah and the bible says to keep slaves and all the non-believers are going to hell. Maybe actually judge people by how they live instead what ancient book they like quoting.

>>1465416
>Your position isn't rational!
>You need to just hate this one religion while also ignoring all the heinous shit the others have done that are just as, if not worse!
Lmao you guys expose yourself.

>>1465417
And you're conveniently leaving out the part where the Jesus Christ's New Testament does away with all of that. Typical. You're all the same. You don't argue honestly; you're just full of hatred that you project onto Christianity.

>>1465407
>their words say they're not tolerant of those groups
That's certainly possible, but I haven't heard most Muslims speak, so how would I know that?

>And not tolerating discrimination means discriminating against discriminatory actors and ideologies, numbskull.
I am? That's why I'm telling you to eat shit. I also said I'm not defending Islam earlier. Muslims that promote bigotry through Islam are obviously assholes, just like Christians that promote bigotry through Christianity are assholes. You're a dumbfuck.

>>1465408
>Then you're an idiot, because it's a single demographic group that's committing the vast majority of terrorist attacks.
I live in America. Most terrorism is Conservative Christians followed by Conservative Muslims. And I already hate Conservatism and want it out of my country.

>>1465418
>pakis rape, murder and pillage their way across the western world
>well whattabout this one thing!
I'm getting angry at the wrong people, clearly.

>>1465420
>Most terrorism is Conservative Christians followed by Conservative Muslims.
>ignoring 9/11
>ignoring the Boston bombing
You are not American.

>>1465420
They're right, you're being played for a sap, and I'm sure Jesus agrees. Muslims would cut everyone's head off that wasn't mooo-slim like them. They admit this in their unholy book.

Again, you're not above the fray, in fact, you're helping the evil machine do its work.

>>1465421
>Just ignore conversion camps, the crusades, the literal active pedophile coverups in the church, the shootings

>>1465424
>the crusades
Those were completely justified, but thanks for revealing your very real Muslim status. You are not a Christian.

>>1465422
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

>>1465413
I don't think of the opposition their religion has to trans, gay, or women's rights as terrorism. That's rather logically irrelevant to whether Islam should merit "Islamophobia" from someone who cares about trans, gay, and women's rights. The "extreme elements" of Islam that being opposed to gay, trans, and women's rights apparently are, are obviously not very "extreme", but common. How could they not be representative views when held by a majority of the subscribers to a particular ideology in a way that distinguishes the beliefs of adherents from those around them on the issues?

>>1465426
The government did that, rebbitor.

>>1465425
>Those were completely justified
Yeah I'm sure raping and pillaging your way through the middle east was completely justified. Those villages had it coming. Don't forget about all the children on both sides too.

>You are not a Christian.
I am lol. I'm just not a shithead like you who wants an excuse to hate brown people for being brown.

>>1465418
Already addressed this.
>>1465365
>>1465397

>>1465428
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
You sure?

>>1465429
>I am
No, you're so obviously a Muslim that I may be chatting with his majesty himself King Charles III.
Go to bed, old man.

>>1465430
No you didn't lmao. You ignore extremist christian stances but home in on extremist muslim ones.

>>1465431
Yeah. Thanks for asking.

You project again. I don't want to hate anyone, but some people just do not need to be close to me. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

>>1465418
What's being asked of you isn't to flip sides, it's moral consistency. Both are wrong or neither is. Simple.
>>1465430

>>1465422
>ignoring the Wounded Knee Massacre
>ignoring the Tulsa Massacre
>ignoring the Civil War
The year is 2025, btw.

I like how anon still hasn't addressed the initial claim in this thread that racists are all assholes, almost certainly because it's impossible to have empathy for others where there are others you refuse to have empathy for on principle.

>>1465423
>Muslims would cut everyone's head off that wasn't mooo-slim like them
You might want to scroll up to how this convo started

>>1465433
Ignore them where?
>>1465437
I'm repeatedly making appeals to consistency. Just correct your hypocrisy. You're protecting people from criticism on the basis of them being brown, even when their belief in an ideology deserves it according to your other values.

>>1465439
>Tulsa Massacre
LOL not a thing at all. You expose yourself to being a normie rebbitor. Sorry.
Mentioning the CW where whites gave their lives for blacks either way is quite rich. I enjoyed that. :)

>>1465388
>I've never even used twatter
Biggest lie in the thread

>>1465445
>Noooo, you're being a hypocrite by not condemning all muslims indiscriminate of their actual actions!
>You need to be consistent like me, who'll cite parts of islam that are shared by christianity but only say islam deserves blame for them!

>>1465440
>that racists are all assholes
No, I don't agree. People are complicated and they can be nice AND mistaken at the same time.
It's unkind and un-Christ-like to hate somewhere for their race, or to hate them at all, true.
But do you really think Jesus wants me to get close to black gang bangers that listen to music that says to murder whites? I'm "bad" for not wanting that type of black near me?

>>1465448
You zooms are done for lol. You really can't believe me, can you?

>>1465446
>Mentioning the CW where whites gave their lives for blacks either way is quite rich
Again, you might want to scroll up to how this convo started.

>>1465452
Why do you think that means anything now? Conversations evolve.
Every question I've answered, but you ignore and ask more questions, rather, new accusations.
You're a teenager, aren't you?

>>1465440
Have ony been following my own arguments in this thread and so don't know what was said, but that isn't how empathy works; it isn't an all or nothing thing, where you either have it for everyone or you have it for no one. Being able to shut empathy off in a sort of selective-sociopathy way is psychologically normal even if rather cruel from a certain perspective. People do it with rapists, murderers, and pedophiles all the time. Doesn't mean those same people who don't have empathy for rapists don't have empathy for anyone at all, that just not how it works.

>>1465453
I accept your concession.

>>1465454
Actually most people can't empathize with rapists, murderers, and pedophiles. They don't have to shut anything off because they literally don't understand the thought processes that turn people into that sort of evil.

Sounds like you might have some inner demons you need to deal with.

>>1465455
You just conceded. lol
Lurk more.

>>1465457
Conversations evolve, m8. I've no idea what you're talking about.

>>1465456
>Actually most people can't empathize with rapists, murderers, and pedophiles.

I'm not even that anon, yet it's plain as day that it not what they meant. You're really a teenager with teenager logic and modern basement reading comprehension.

>>1465459
>I'm not even that anon, yet it's plain as day that it not what they meant
Learn2read
>Being able to shut empathy off in a sort of selective-sociopathy way is psychologically normal
>People do it with rapists, murderers, and pedophiles all the time
Fucking "selective"

>>1465460
You literally misread their post. Let me help you:
>Being able to shut empathy off in a sort of selective-sociopathy way is psychologically normal even if rather cruel from a certain perspective. People do it with rapists, murderers, and pedophiles all the time
.....
Read that over and over. You got the wrong impression from that anon. You're ability to understand what you read has been crippled due to your parents lack of care and bad teachers.

sorry
YOUR ability
>inb4 you mayde a spellink mistake
>dayt mens I winz

No.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/bondi-beach-gunshots-reported-12-14-25
death toll updated to 16, may rise further
one of the gunmen is still alive but in critical condition

>>1465449
Again, if the ideology states it, then that would be worthy of condemnation from the perspective of someone who cares about those issues. And why should I, who am not religious, drop the subject of progressives being wildly hypocritical on the issue of Islam just to go: "but Christians do it, too!" Why do I need to reroute the thread because you can't reckon with the inconsistency of your views?

>>1465458
He says that when he doesn't have any argument.

>>1465465
It'll rise to 6 gorillion, lest the media is racist.
Remember The Holocaust II.
Australian Boogaloo.

>>1465466
Yeah and I'll condemn muslims who act on that shit just like christians who act on that shit. That's the opposite of hypocrisy.

>>1465456
No, people do shut off their empathy in response to certain facts about someone. Like, you would have empathy for your neighbor if he got cancer, but if you later learned he molested his daughter then you might not. Your empathy for him wasn't just never there, it was shut off in response to something. Very obviously, people are capable of having empathy for some and not others, which was what the original anon was wrong about.

Why is the /k/ discord brigading this thread while neglecting >>1465252 ?

>>1465469
The ideology has, baked into it, views that are antithetical to yours on certain subjects of great importance to you (unless you don't care about sexual and gender-identity minorities rights or those of women). If we were talking about a far-right person who hadn't actually done anything, but whose views differed from yours on important rights-related issues, you wouldn't need for them to have done something bad to go: "This guy's an asshole", because his moral views obviously oppose yours, and it would make sense for you to evaluate him that way because of that.

>>1465474
>The ideology has, baked into it, views that are antithetical to yours on certain subjects of great importance to you
So does every other religion lmao. You just like singling out islam because the majority of people in it are brown.

>>1465474
>(unless you don't care about sexual and gender-identity minorities rights or those of women)
Oh no! Not the troons and foids!

>>1465470
>Like, you would have empathy for your neighbor if he got cancer, but if you later learned he molested his daughter then you might not
Please learn the difference between sympathy and empathy and also please shut the fuck up. You should have been taught this shit in 6th grade.

>>1465462
I read it just fine. You're a fuckwit.

>>1465475
No, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of people who use the term "Islamophobic", who invariably have views that Islam strongly opposes. People who are perfectly fine with criticizing western religion precisely because it's western, but decry critique of a more zealous and progressivism-opposed ideology precisely because the majority of people who subscribe to it are non-western and brown.

>>1465259
>https://files.catbox.moe/n5dlx6.mp4

I like how the shooters let people in close proximity to them flee at the start of the video.
It was also interesting how the shooter was trying to wave people away
>"Get out of here! I'm doing a mass shooting!"

>>1465474
>The ideology has, baked into it, views that are antithetical to yours on certain subjects of great importance to you
Islam isn't a single concrete ideology any more than Christianity is and even if it were that wouldn't mean all adherent's are perfect Muslims any more than all Christians are.

Your understanding of the world and human society is childish and ridiculous.

>>1465483
>western religion
Western religion? Neopaganism?

>>1465483
>the majority of people who subscribe to it are non-western and brown
The majority of Christians aren't white.

>>1465481
No one, colloquially, uses the term empathy according to the more traditional definition of grasping how others think or feel you're talking about here. They use it to mean feelings felt on another's behalf based upon said understanding of how they feel. Your complaint about its misuse here would apply to 99% of the times it's used in modern communication. Your complaint would also apply its use in the original post of this chain
>>1465440
where it was used colloquially to mean exactly as described above. Being an "asshole" here implicitly involves not having the "feeling" sort of empathy, or sympathy, as you would nitpickingly specify. Empathy in the post you were responding to was being used in a way that was consistent with its original use in the chain. The original poster was wrong and you are malding at something 99% of people do.

>>1465485
It's much more concrete and consistent than Christianity is; it doesn't have a million different denominations of note (just Sunni and Shia), the Koran is literally said to be the word of God, and none of the denominations of Islam I'm aware of are ok with gay, trans, or women's equal rights, unlike with some prominent denominations of Christianity.

>>1465488
It's criticized here (in the west) by progressives because it's the traditional, white-coded religion of the land and they oppose anything traditional or white-coded in the west.

>>1465493
And, additionally, it's NOT criticized here in the west by progressives because it opposes rights for marginalized sexuality, gender, and gender-identity groups. If that WERE the reason it were criticized here, they would have those same critiques to levy against Islam, yet they don't.

>>1465490
I was using the colloquial definition of empathy. I wasn't differentiating between empathy and empathetic response. I was differentiating between empathy (empathetic response) and sympathy. Feeling bad cause someone you know got cancer isn't fucking empathy. It's sympathy.

>>1465493
>>1465495
You are mentally ill.

>>1465482
Sure which is why all you have a nasty names. You know you're defeated. Again....in your life.
You might want to fix that, but you won't.

>>1465499
>Feeling bad cause someone you know got cancer isn't fucking empathy. It's sympathy.
Yes, and in modern usage, empathy is often used to mean the same thing and the original poster used empathy in this way. Again, you're complaining about something 99% of people do.
The original poster was wrong. They asserted that
>>1465440
>it's impossible to have empathy for others where there are others you refuse to have empathy for on principle
That was wrong. It's actually wrong according to either definition of empathy, and it was explained why it was wrong using the sort of meaning for the word that the original poster implicitly uses. Then you got mad because archaic conventions that are never followed weren't being followed.

>>1465503
>Yes, and in modern usage, empathy is often used to mean the same thing
No? Empathy is used to mean empathetic response, not sympathy. You're confused as to what words mean.

>>1465504
Modern usage not as what you find in the dictionary today, but as what modern people mean when they use the word (hence: Colloquial). Go on Youtube, Twitter, pick your favorite platform, and find people using the word empathy. Talk with people in real life, average people especially, and see which definition of the word "empathy" they end up using. Hint: It won't be yours.

>>1465506
>Modern usage not as what you find in the dictionary today
Right, and empathetic response isn't what you find in the dictionary today for empathy.

Empathy and empathetic response don't mean the same thing. People just use empathy to refer to empathetic response. Empathy for empathetic response is a colloquialism. Empathy for sympathy is a fuckup.

Also substituting sympathy into that original conversation doesn't even fucking make sense. Sympathy has fuck all to do with sociopathy and isn't even usually a good thing to experience towards non-rapists. They were very clearly referring to empathetic response when they said empathy.

>>1465513
"Empathy" being used as a stand-in for sympathy is also colloquial and extremely frequent, whether you consider it a problem or not.

>substituting sympathy into that original conversation doesn't even fucking make sense

"Sympathy", via Cambridge English Dictionary: "(an expression of) understanding and care for someone else's suffering"

the original post:
>>1465440
> it's impossible to have [understanding and care for someone else's suffering] for others where there are others you refuse to have [understanding and care for someone else's suffering] for on principle

Yes it does. And this is immaterial because the above post is wrong regardless.

>Sympathy has fuck all to do with sociopathy
Sociopaths don't care about others, so yes, it has something to do with it.
>and isn't even usually a good thing to experience towards non-rapists
What?

>>1465520
First of all, that's a dogshit definition of sympathy still incorporating elements of when its use was more in line with empathy. That usage has fallen out of favor. Try
>A feeling of pity or sorrow for the suffering or distress of another
for the modern usage. This entire argument becomes a clown show if you're going to argue that by empathy you meant sympathy by which you meant empathy.

Sympathy is a purely selfish emotional response and generally not productive if you aren't trying to actively emotionally bond with someone through shared sorrow.

To use the cancer example, if you haven't had cancer or a comparable diagnosis, you can't understand what someone with cancer is going through. Feeling sad for someone else's cancer is just an act of self-satisfaction. It's the "sorry to hear" response. Why are you sad? Is it cause you are there/have been there and you can put yourself in the head space of the cancer patient? No. It's cause you don't want to think about them being sick or don't want them to be sick. It's about you or at best about your relationship with them.

At worst sympathy can come from looking down on someone, like feeling sympathy for someone poorer or less able than you as if that's an absolute indicator of quality of life.

You know what? This conversation isn't being very productive. Allow me to argue in the alternative. If you meant people can turn off their empathetic response for monsters, my position is most people can't understand monsters, so they don't need to turn that shit off. If you meant turn off sympathy for monsters, my position is sympathy is something you generally have to *turn on in response to suffering*. It's not some default response when interacting with people, and certainly not a natural response for monsters.

If you understand monsters, that is a you problem.

>>1465492
>It's much more concrete and consistent than Christianity is; it doesn't have a million different denominations of note (just Sunni and Shia)
Lol @ the idea that Sunni and Shia are just one denomination each. That's like saying Catholic and Protestant.

>>1465532
>If you understand monsters, that is a you problem.
Local retard doesn't understand empathy OR sympathy.

>>1465535
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/10/07/mapping-the-global-muslim-population/
>"Of the total Muslim population, 10-13% are Shia Muslims and 87-90% are Sunni Muslims"

Oopsie. Turns out, they're basically the only ones and you're wrong.

>Bondi Beach gunmen were father and son, police say
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/ckgk391yzm7t

>>1465546
Oh shit, misunderstood. Godamnit. Well, Christian denominations are still more varied in their thinking by a long shot, especially on those issues.

Pam Bondi beach.
But why do they want us to think of Pam Bondi and beaches?

>>1465537
Your definition of sympathy literally involved understanding.

>>1465548
I can assure you Islam is almost as varied as Christianity. For every death cult there's a hippy commune.

>>1465549
Maybe because Pam Bondi has perhaps one of the most sniffable asses in politics right now?

>>1465532
A "dogshit definition" from the Cambridge English Dictionary. Perhaps you'd prefer the one from Merriam-Webster?:
"a feeling or expression of sincere concern for someone who is experiencing something difficult or painful"
Sincere concern, so no, it's not a "purely selfish" response. You just pulled that addendum out of your ass.

Or what about this other definition of sympathy from Merriam-Webster?:
"the action of entering into or sharing the feelings or interests of another"
Uh-oh, that sounds a little too similar to your "empathetic response" (for which there's no definition in any dictionary I've been able to find, just psych-field babble). It almost sounds like these words are used with such abstract and overlapping parameters to wind up being, colloquially, interchangeable? Nonono, that couldn't be true, you've been arguing against that all this time! How could you be wrong? That's not possible!

>You know what? This conversation isn't being very productive
But word-stickler-kun, YOU had interjected this bullshit into the conversation in the first place! Based on your inability to accept that someone on your side had made a stupid argument (that you can't have empathy for ANYONE when there are some people you refuse to have empathy for).

>If you meant people can turn off their empathetic response for monsters, my position is most people can't understand monsters, so they don't need to turn that shit off
Oh it's not about empathizing with that particular monstrous act. It's about empthizing with them as a person. As in: "Shit, bad stuff happened to him. That's tough, I remeber when bad stuff happened to me... Oh, he's a rapist? Well, fuck him, then."
People literally do this all the time. People can relate to someone else's feelings about getting cheated on, their parents dying, kind of feel what they feel (your "empathetic response"), and then just turn it off for EVERYTHING about that person once they realize they're a piece of shit.

>>1465551
Lol no it's not. You fucking made that up and you know it. Provide some proof

Ibrahim. Someone else is highly revered: 'Isa PROTIP: who was born of a Nazarene Jewess, Bris, Bar Mitzvah'd, the works. Referred to as 'Rabbi'. 'INRI'. And guess who refers to God as 'Allah' in Malta and no, it's not who you think
Who has support in NYC from ultra-orthodox rabbis: and was recently voted in as Mayor by Christians there otherwise why wasn't the Republican or independent candidate elected ?
Fun Fact: There have been more terrorist attacks in US by white rightists than Muslims.

>>1465566
>Me apetheist.
>Me think ape god
>Me ape opinion is always right
>Apetheist mad at god
>Apetheist don't believe in god but very made at god
>Apetheist cannot explain the lack of logic

>>1465550
Not me
>>1465563
This is

Just concede. People CAN and DO turn off their abilities to
a) feel what another is feeling
b) care about what another is feeling
c) even entertain someone else's thinking long enough to understand on an intellectual level what they are feeling
when they don't like the person. ALL THE TIME.

>>1465557
Maybe 25 years ago she did. The flower has whithered.

>>1465574
Actually I didn't realize she was 60. I thought she was like a slightly worn out looking 30 year old whose political service added like 5 years to her age.
Her ass is long past it's sniffing era though, so you're not wrong.
Fucking crazy.

>>1465565
>Provide some proof
>Christianity
>It is the world's largest and most widespread religion with over 2.3 billion followers
>Islam
>As of 2020, Pew Research Center (PEW) projections suggest there are a total of 2 billion adherents worldwide.

>>1465563
>Sincere concern, so no, it's not a "purely selfish" response
Sincere concern can be purely selfish, for example feeling sympathy for a fictional character, but that's also a dogshit definition. I don't even know what insincere concern would be. The word concern itself implies sincerity.

Try
>the act or state of feeling sorrow or compassion for another.

Or hell, try the original webster definition
>Fellow feeling; the quality of being affected by the affection of another, with feelings by the affection of another, with feelings correspondent in kind, if not in degree. We feel sympathy for another when we see him in distress, or when we are informed of his distresses. This sympathy is a correspondent feeling of pain or regret.

>"the action of entering into or sharing the feelings or interests of another"
>Uh-oh, that sounds a little too similar to your "empathetic response"
Not particularly. If we're sad together that doesn't mean we're sad for the same reason or that either of us understands the other's sadness.

>Shit, bad stuff happened to him. That's tough, I remember when bad stuff happened to me..
Why would you assume you process bad stuff happening to you the same way as a rapist? More to the point, why would the same bad stuff happen to you as a rapist?

I look at rapists like octopi. Like sure, they're intelligent and they can probably suffer, but I'm not going to assume if I lost a child and an octopus lost a child we'd go through the same shit. This isn't that fucking difficult, dipshit.

Oh, also empathizing with someone doesn't just involve bad shit. It's thoughts and emotions generally. Does the same shit make you happy as a rapist?

>>1465603
No, retard. Proof that it's as varied as Christinity and there are muslim hippy communes. Complete made up bullshit

>>1465259
Gotta love Australians. Only population on the planet Earth who will heckle a mass shooter mid shootout lol

>>1465617
>arguing about the modern definition of sympathy and then pulls out a definition from 1828
https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/sympathy
>Fellow feeling; the quality of being affected...

What a reach. Concede.

>Not particularly. If we're sad together that doesn't mean...
It didn't say together, it said SHARING the feelings of another, implying they're the same or similar

>I look at rapists like octopi
Just willfully obtuse or stupid at this point. As was already mentioned, if a person didn't KNOW someone had done something, they'd be more likely to
>>1465569
a, b, c
Once they DISCOVERED that this same someone had done evil thing x, they would, in many cases, then stop
a, b, c
How the sympathy/empathy/whateverthefuck could be present before and then turned off like a faucet demonstrates that the same person could feel or not feel these things not only for different people, but the same person. Which means that the original claim, for the millionth time, is wrong
>it's impossible to have empathy for others where there are others you refuse to have empathy for on principle
Just blatantly, retardedly wrong. It's not an all or nothing thing; you can have it for some and, at the same time, not have it for others.

>not going to assume if I lost a child and an octopus lost a child we'd go through the same shit
You wouldn't always KNOW beforehand. So you might feel something for the person at first, but then later feel nothing as you've discovered they're a rapist and the feelings have been shut OFF. You no longer see the person as relatable to you, to such an extent that they're "like octopi" even though it's highly likely they experience physical and psychological pain in a way that is, overall, very similar to you compared to an octopus, since they share over 99.9% of their genes with you. Hell, comparing the rapist to an octopus demonstrates the cutting off of
>>1465569
b and c, all on its own

I feel like I'm explaining this to a retarded person.

>>1465247
Nice to see banning guns worked out for them.

>>1465650
The Austeroids tell me they didn't actually ban guns. They just created gun laws so strict that you can simply ignore them to shoot up a beach full of jews.

>>1465652
Because gun ownership rights are never going to be human rights.

>>1465656
its not guns fault that guns are weaker than a muslim dad bod

>>1465636
>if a person didn't KNOW someone had done something
They weren't empathizing. They only thought they were. It's almost like understanding others is hard. Dumb bitch.

>>1465656
I mean you can debate that point if you like. Your horseshit has made me realize maybe the 1st amendment is wrong, so maybe they all are,
But the fact remains, Australian gun laws are so strict you can simply walk onto a beach and start taking potshots at jews.
So, if we're going off topic and on to the topic of guns at your behest, then tell me, what did these gun laws do, and why do we need more?
And say we forbid the horrible technology as your luddite bullshit demands. What happens when arabs just 3d print guns and ignore the law and take potshots at jews?
I'm pretty sure they'll just use vans, and knoives, as maybe EU and UK fags might be able to attest to.

Maybe you could just stuff your bullshit in your ass and keep it to yourself?

>>1465660
Then empathy never actually happens because we never really feel what others do, we just assume.

>>1465662
>we just assume.
I'm just jumping in here to say, our brains do that constantly. Whoever coined the term, "Assuming something makes an ass out of u and me" was an utter retard. Assumptions are endlessly useful to normal, non-schizoids.
In fact, watching someone do something is sometimes treated by your brain as you actually doing it. Humans are naturally empathetic, except left wingers who are not humans and suffer from schizophrenia, and other mental disorders.

>>1465661
'murican red flag laws are so strict if your mental illness was known you'd have all your guns taken away
eventually ai will catch up and you'll be flagged, its just a matter of time faggot

>>1465668
>Maybe you could just stuff your bullshit in your ass and keep it to yourself?
You forgot to read this part, bro.

>>1465667
Assumptions are constant and necessary, yeah. That old Descartes "I think, therefore I am" is really all we can know with certainty and the rest are technically assumptions, yet we need to assume the world is roughly what our senses tell us it is, need to assume the sun will rise tomorrow, etc. otherwise we aren't able to make any decisions.

>>1465662
>Then empathy never actually happens because we never really feel what others do
There's a philosophical argument to be made that we don't, or at the least we don't know for sure when we do.

On the topic at hand, if you find out someone you know is a monster, the more normal response is
>They weren't who I thought they were.
vs
>Well, we were in sync before, but I guess I gotta turn off our emotional connection now.

>>1465667
>In fact, watching someone do something is sometimes treated by your brain as you actually doing it. Humans are naturally empathetic, except left wingers who are not humans
We literally have hard data to the contrary. Right wingers tend to care less about less people.
>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0

>>1465668
>'murican red flag laws are so strict if your mental illness was known you'd have all your guns taken away
Fake American. Red flag laws and laws banning firearm ownership for the mentally ill are completely separate shit. Also, the former requires a restraining order from a court and only lasts a year at most and the latter requires a judge adjudicate you as legally incompetent at best or to forcibly commit you to an asylum at worst.

>>1465672
>We literally have hard data to the contrary. Right wingers tend to care less about less people.
Except it's more like they care about tangible people versus imaginary people (imaginary as in people outside of their sphere).
It's almost akin to a TAT (Thematic Apperception Test) works. They don't know these people but they think they know them and project their feelings onto them. It's odd and not healthy.
It's likely the origin of the noble savage and wise negro memes amongst others.
And when it's proven these people who they've projected their own version of humanity onto aren't as great as they thought, they turn a blind eye and say, well, "It's not all.." or something similar.

>>1465679
You're referencing the heatmaps of moral allocation by political ideology. You have a good familiarity with the subject.

>>1465672
That philosophical argument is basically true (and hasn't been new to me for over a dozen years). I'm bringing it up to point out that if we follow your standards that people aren't empathizing when they're projecting some amount of their feelings onto someone, this is going to spiral into logical nihilism, which is useless for discussing the subject.

Back to the subject
>They weren't who I thought they were.
>vs
>Well, we were in sync before, but I guess I gotta turn off our emotional connection now.

The latter isn't a conscious decision, it's subconscious. When it happens, the conscious explanation is the former. And yet, people often turn off their >>1465569
a, b, c, entirely, even though similarities between them still persist. Again, you did it with the octopus comparison >>1465617

We don't need to argue about whether people do it because you literally did it. And if you didn't do it by technicality because "well, I never REALLY felt empathy for them because I was just feeling something for who I thought they were", then that's true of all empathy and cue logical nihilism spiral in which case discussing empathy is moot because no one meets the standards for having it.

>>1465679
>Except it's more like they care about tangible people versus imaginary people
First of all, people you don't know personally aren't imaginary.

Second of all, the categories were inclusive as they became broader, e.g. immediate family was included in the extended family category and family was included in the friends category. Most conservatives did not assign moral value to anyone less familiar than "friend", and many to anyone less than immediate family.

>We also computed a weighted circle score for each participant by multiplying the numerical rank of each category by the allocation to that category and summing these values. That is, we multiplied “immediate family” by 1, “extended family” by 2…“all things in existence” by 16, and summed the values—larger scores indicated larger moral circles. The significant correlation between ideology and this weighted circle score (r (129)=−0.33, p<0.001; r (129)=−0.24, p=0.005 for ideal allocation), again demonstrates that as conservatism increases, the extent of the moral circle decreases
They literally found that the more conservative you are the less people you care about. Being a conservative alienates you from humanity, from your species.

>>1465704
>The latter isn't a conscious decision, it's subconscious
It was described as conscious. Also, imagining it as unconscious is worse. Why the fuck would you not consciously distance yourself from a monster?

>>1465704
>well, I never REALLY felt empathy for them because I was just feeling something for who I thought they were
Presumably it is possible to be right about who someone is, or at the least close enough to right that any empathy you feel towards them is meaningfully similar.

>you can be wrong about someone so you CAN'T be RIGHT about ANYONE
This is a dumbass argument.

>>1465708
You're describing in-group preference, which is evolutionarily healthy. It helps you prioritize your genes, which are also possessed to a lesser extent by people related to you and, historically, in your tribe, over those of randos. Liberals essentially don't prioritize their genes, their family's, or their tribe's over randos. In fact, they prioritize their family and tribe below people on the whole.
>people you don't know personally aren't imaginary
He's not asserting they literally don't exist, he's asserting your concept of them is basically imagined, which is true.
>Being a conservative alienates you from humanity, from your species
That's not a causal link; people who only care about those relatable to them may be more likely to adopt conservative views. As in, the thinking doesn't make them that way, they are that way somewhat predispositionally and are drawn to that sort of thinking because of it.

A bunch of values in left and right wing thought basically stem from this difference: Values like in-group loyalty and sanctity are normally protective of the group against outsiders, while values like equality and harm avoidance are protective of group members from each other. These are essentially the evolutionary purposes of right and left leaning tendencies of though and feeling.

>>1465709
No it wasn't. You're literally talking to the person who described it, and I didn't describe it as conscious. People don't normally need to make a conscious effort to distance themselves emotionally from someone they see as evil, their feelings (born of instinct and unconscious things) do that for them. The primary purpose of emotions is to guide people to behave in ways the brain or its impulses think are in their best interest faster than reasoning something out consciously could. It's like a subconscious reasoning that incorporates your experiences, prior learned emotional responses, and instinctive tendencies without a need for an exact form.

>>1465714
>You're describing in-group preference, which is evolutionarily healthy
An in-group preference is preferring those of your in-group over those of your out-group. This isn't an in-group preference, it's fucking misanthropy.

>That's not a causal link
Does it matter? Either way the two traits go hand-in-hand.

>In fact, they prioritize their family and tribe below people on the whole.
Your family and tribe are part of people on the whole, dipshit. I'd value my family and tribe below my family and tribe and a golf ball because that's literally how groups work. Why would including more things make me value my family and tribe less?

>>1465714
>and I didn't describe it as conscious
>selective-sociopathy
>selective

>>1465711
>you can be wrong about someone so you CAN'T be RIGHT about ANYONE
That's not the line of logic; we can't be totally right about anyone other than ourself because we're not them. We've already tread this ground
>>1465672
>There's a philosophical argument to be made that we don't, or at the least we don't know for sure when we do

You are loathsomely stupid and obstinate. You have no win condition here, everything you've set out to do in this discussion is either wrong or moot, and this has been reasonably demonstrated and clarified to an absurdly unnecessary level to you many times.
>>1465440
>it's impossible to have empathy for others where there are others you refuse to have empathy for on principle
Was retardedly wrong. That this was wrong has not registered with you even though it is very obviously the case. You have never even offered an argument attempting to support this position because you don't have one that is remotely serviceable.

>>1465569
Is true. People do this. They retract their [all three of these potentially ways of defining empathy to properly address your attempt to goalpost shift by fixating on the definition of a word, which didn't even make the original post in the chain true or the sentiment expresed in the above false] when they discover someone does something they don't like, doesn't hold their political views, whatever. It doesn't even need to be something as extreme as "they raped someone". And, apparently you need this clarification, they do it subconsiously. They don't need to think about it. They have a moral disgust response and these >>1465569 shut down.

>>1465440
>it's impossible to have empathy for others where there are others you refuse to have empathy for on principle
You're attempting to use shame to keep rapists and murderers in the western world.

It was already well-known that you don't have empathy for racists. Or anybody else for that matter.

>>1465717
I'm the one who wrote that. I'm literally telling you what it meant, you idiot. It was not used to mean conscious. It was used to mean subconscious, and it was even preceeded by "a sort of". People choose things both consciously and subconsciously. Are we going to pretend to be ignorant of that, too?

>>1465716
The study literally demonstrated that liberal people identify more with all of humanity than they do with community or country (see figure 3), and less with community or country than do conservatives (same figure). This is an in-group preference, saying it isn't just doesn't make sense, and prioritizing different levels of things distant from you will result in different outcomes, because there are times when the interests of your group and humanity as a whole will be at odds. This is literally why left and right wing people have such different answers to certain national or internation questions. There's nothing for you to sensibly disagree with here, you dumbfuck. And you can't read studies, no surprise there. God, you're retarded

>>1465719
I don't have to agree with a philosophical argument I only brought up as a curiosity. I certainly don't have to concede it as true.

>You have never even offered an argument attempting to support this position because you don't have one that is remotely serviceable.
I never attempted to support that position because it wasn't my post and the wording was so fucked I couldn't even tell what they were attempting to say, lmao.

>>1465724
>The study literally demonstrated that liberal people identify more with all of humanity than they do with community or country

>Participants completed the Identification With All Humanity Scale40 that asks how much people identify with their community, their country, and the world as a whole (e.g., “How much do you identify with (that is, feel a part of, feel love toward, have concern for) each of the following?” People in my community, people in my country, all humans everywhere).
Again, dipshit.

>I'd value my family and tribe below my family and tribe and a golf ball because that's literally how groups work. Why would including more things make me value my family and tribe less?

>>1465725
You tried to make a gotcha out of being willfully obtuse about what it means to empathize here >>1465660
in response to this
>>1465636
It was extended to its logical conclusion.

>I never attempted to support that position because
I'm glad there's no disagreement, then. I don't think your pedantic concern over the exact definition of empathy actually matters at all and cared more about the point made by the first in the chain, which is why I kept referencing it. You still fundamentally don't understand this, though
>>1465569

>>1465726
Midwit arrogance. The more things you morally value, the more you'll have to distribute priority among them, because they can have competing interests. When you allocate your "moral units", or care and concern, to all of humanity/all animals/all things, it now has to be distributed more evenly among everything under that umbrella than if you saved some specifically for your close people. Saving some of the "moral units" for close people was what conservatives tended to do, and liberals didn't.
In figure 3, the x axis is political leaning (left is left, right is right). The blue line is identification with all, the green line is identification with country, red is community. The blue line is higher on th left than on the right. The green and red lines are higher on the right than on the left. What does that mean?

>Why would including more things make me value my family and tribe less?
This was already explained in the post you replied to, but I've also explained it some more at the top of this post. To provide more info, since you didn't read the study (you stupid ass), I'll further clarify for you that participants were given 100 moral units to allocate (FINITE, you retarded faggot). If we give something to one person, is that the same as giving it to a group of 100 that the one person belongs to? No, dumb nigger, it isn't.

You shouldn't need this explained to you.

>>1465569
>People CAN and DO turn off their abilities
People can't 'turn off' their emotions bro. That's usually the byproduct of trauma or sociopathy.

>>1465420
>I live in America. Most terrorism is Conservative Christians followed by Conservative Muslims. And I already hate Conservatism and want it out of my country.
This is how every leftist is invariably exposed as either a brown mooslim themselves or a white who gets on their knees and sucks off Mohammedian terrorists because of self loathing. Reminder that radical Islam killed more people in 9/11 alone than all of radical Christianity has in the west in the past 40 years. Allah was raped by indians by the way.

>>1465708
>First of all, people you don't know personally aren't imaginary.
I mean, they aren't real. Read it again:
>They don't know these people but they think they know them and project their feelings onto them.
You're creating them, their emotions, motives and their feelings in your mind. That was what I meant by "imaginary" as explained.
>They literally found that the more conservative you are the less people you care about. Being a conservative alienates you from humanity, from your species.
Are you sure this means what you've said?

>>1465733
>Reminder that radical Islam killed more people in 9/11 alone than all of radical Christianity has in the west in the past 40 years
Reagan deliberately fucking up the US response to the AIDS crisis because it disproportionately killed gays was multiple 9/11s all on its own. Shut the fuck up.

>>1465737
Fags BTFO by Gay Bowel Disease.
And what was Reagan supposed to do anyway?
It's been 40 years and new HIV is STILL 70% fag.

>>1465741
>And what was Reagan supposed to do anyway?
Tell people it exists for one. Spreading awareness fucking works, dipshit. Fucker wouldn't even mention the disease while it was spreading unchecked.

The Reagan admin was cigarette companies levels of evil.

>Fags BTFO by Gay Bowel Disease.
For a guy that wants to argue Christianity doesn't kill people, you sure are celebrating Christianity killing people a lot.

>>1465745
>Spreading awareness fucking works
*Taps stat* Uh, sir, are you sure?
>The Reagan admin was cigarette companies levels of evil.
I just don't see it.
>For a guy that wants to argue Christianity doesn't kill people, you sure are celebrating Christianity killing people a lot.
I never argued anything like this. But no,Christianity doesn't kill anyone.
And end of day, if God wants to smite fags with a disease AGAIN that's literally none of my business.

the jews did it

muslim are the scum of this world

>>1465732
People can stop feeling empathy for someone as soon as they learn their politics are different. It can be something as minor(?) as that which triggers it, and it can happen on a dime. Whether that demonstrates mental illness is another thing.

>>1465773
Your dad yeah we got it.

>>1465776
tf does this even mean, monkey? Go back to licking that filthy arsehole of those arse-fuckers.

>>1465775
You're confusing your feelings with what other people are feeling.

>>1465775
They can, but not necessarily. I disagree pretty vehemently with many people who label themselves as conservative these days, especially those who still support Trump and his administration. It makes me feel more sympathy for them though because they look lost to me. I can't imagine anyone who is at heart a genuine conservative really wants a convicted felon and who brags about committing sexual assault. But they are stuck in a position they feel it's their only choice.

>>1465493
>Confirmed Muslim.
Who wrote the Koran if Mohamed was illetirate?
The reason Christian have different sects is evolving ideas and can look form the lessons and analogies Christ used. We had our previous problems, but after the reformation we mostly get along. Biggest thing is Catholics vs Protestants.

Muslims, they can't handle critique, it's the final word of God and is literal. Hence why they are stuck in a tribal war mindset when angry and objective analysis

>>1465785
>arsehole
>arse
Non-American with weird sexual obsessions detected.

>>1465848
>but after the reformation we mostly get along
lmao.

>we mostly get along
>if someone so much as sweeps in the wrong part of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, vicious fights break out
>45,000 denominations of Christianity
>woe betide anyone who says so much as one critical word against he who died for their cause: and that's just the Christains who worship Charlie Kirk
They can't handle critique, it's the final word of their God and is literal. Hence why they are stuck in a tribal war mindset when angry and are against objective analysis. And that's just MAGAts who worship their King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
...and pay lip service to a dead Jew on a stick who told a rich man to sell all he had and give to the poor, yet don't know what 'INRI' means. Or daren't know.
>rabid KJV-onlyists
>KJV
If only they knew.

>>1465841
>But they are stuck in a position they feel it's their only choice.
No, it's because everybody in a leadership position factually fucks kids.

Libshits are braindead. The same white liberal women screaming 'orange man was a pedo' will gladly traipse around their house in Victoria's Secret lingerie, ignorant to the reality that they financially supported the machine responsible for Epstein in the first place. They also think we're supposed to abandon MAGA because the """"""conspiracy theory"""""" they used to smear rightwingers of antisemitism now implicates Trump.

There are bigger concerns right now. Like the fact that more than a third of voting-aged Americans think we deserve to be killed because we want to enforce immigration law. We can discuss who the real pedophiles are after we win.

>>1465855
>We can discuss who the real pedophiles are after
Its you. You're openly supporting pedophiles and are fine with kids getting fucked by globalist.
You're the rot complaining that people are trying to remove it

>>1465856
>openly supporting pedophiles
The only way you could remove 'the rot' is if you completely dismantle the US intelligence apparatus and remove every single US politician from office, including the unelected ones. This includes jailing billionaires like Les Wexner and various Hollywood moguls.

Do you have the power to do that, faggot? Because I certainly don't. And you still support them in ways you aren't even aware, and yet don't care to learn about.

>>1465856
The rot isn't going to identify itself, lmao

>>1465855
>There are bigger concerns
>everybody in a leadership position factually fucks kids
>projecting so much, IMAX is obsolete
You support an orange pedo. Want to prove you're not? Say 'Throw Trump under the bus'.
I say 'Throw Trump under the bus' with impunity because I also say 'Throw Bill Clinton under the bus'.
If you don't say 'Throw Trump under the bus', you're a pedo supporter. But then, the GOP refuse to this day to make child marriages illegal in certain states thus the Gang Of Pedophiles. If all pedophilic elements were purged from the Republican party, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Same if any pedophilic elements were purged from the Democrat party but if that happened in both instances, the latter would still survive, whilst the GOP would be all but extinct.
Now say 'Purge all pedophilic elements from the Republican party'.
The biggest concern will be if you don't say that and 'Throw Trump under the bus'. What will you say about that, other than 'What?', cornered pedo supporter? Just saying 'What?' or anything else other than 'Throw Trump under the bus' and 'Purge all pedophilic elements from the Republican party' will prove you're a pedo enabler.
>Libshits
>still pushing the leftist forced meme
Hello Ivan.
>everybody in a leadership position factually fucks kids
>claiming to have the moral high ground
>those who think a so-called 'Strong Man' sets the standard for leading a 'moral' and 'based' country
https://www.military.com/video/off-duty/odd/akward-moments-with-vladimir-putin/312947323600
Well hello there, Darth Anakin.

>>1465862
>I say 'Throw Trump under the bus' with impunity because I also say 'Throw Bill Clinton under the bus'.
If you voted for any democratic candidate in the last thirty years, you're already complicit, faggot. The same is true if you've ever paid taxes or donated money to a democratic political campaign.

This is why you're stupid. You exist in a system ruled by satanic pedophiles (even if you aren't American, but still in a western nation) and are sitting here expecting me to care about Trump while subconsciously protecting yourself from acknowledging the full scope of this problem.

Let me guess: Epstein was real, but pizzagate wasn't. Do you know what the Finders were? Who the MEGA group was? What the Franklin Scandal was about? The NXIVM cult? Why Epstein's Island had a submarine base?

Sorry I don't care about your gotchas, you stupid fuck.

>>1465859
>The only way you could remove 'the rot' is if you completely dismantle the US intelligence apparatus and remove every single US politician from office, including the unelected ones.
First of all, you'll never remove them all, hell, you'll never remove any of them, if you aren't willing to start until you have a plan to get rid of all of them. Every disgraced and locked up pedo is a win, jackass.

Second of all, your mentally ill ass claims to believe everyone in power is a pedo and you don't view that as a reason to start hunting them down and killing them all cause you have no legal recourse left. In fact, you actively support some pedos over others in your mind. You are the rot.

Either act like you believe what you say and start gunning people down or shut the fuck up about the lies you tell yourself to justify supporting monsters.

Those of us with any faith in any parts of the system will actually try to get accountability for the assholes you're propping up in the meantime.

God sacks of shit like you disgust me. Best case scenario, you don't believe what you say. Worst case scenario, you don't deserve to be called human.

1465866
>The same is true if you've ever paid taxes
today an internet retard told me that paying 7 cents in tax for a sausage muffin is the same as supporting pedophiles

>>1465862
I'll do you one further:

I throw Joe Biden under the bus for trying to run when Americans overwhelmingly thought he was too old, ensuring Donald's victory. I throw him under the bus for mismanaging the border delivering the Republicans an easy win, and throw Harris under the bus for the same.

I throw Barack Obama under the bus for squandering his mandate by serving corporate interests over those of the American people.

I throw Bill Clinton under the bus for abusing his power with Monica Lewinsky, lying, and for hanging out with Epstein. It's his fault Bush won in 2000, dragging us into that quagmire in the middle east.

And yet, Republicans manage to clearly remain the shittier choice. After 15 years of whining about Obamacare, they've yet to present an actual alternative. Every Republican president back to Bush Sr. has inherited a strong economy and driven it into the ground. Each have slashed taxes for the hyper-wealthy driving up the national debt, and all we've gotten is economic ruin. That's to mention nothing of their obvious contempt for the rule of law: Bush Sr. with Iran-Contra, Bush Jr with torturing prisoners in a war waged on a lie, and Donald on trying to steal a goddamn election (to mention nothing of the rest)

Maga is a cult.

>>1465867
>if you aren't willing to start until you have a plan to get rid of all of them
Epstein was a middle man. He was a money guy. He worked with transnational banking institutions directly connected to figures like Adnan Khashoggi. The same is true of Trump and everybody else working in Washington.

These people are literally building Palantir and digital ID systems in every non-American country to assign a social credit score to people who talk about this shit.

You're a moron for even thinking that this problem is solvable. An actual "barks at passing cars" dog-brained fucking idiot.

>>1465866
...and if you say anything other than 'Throw Trump under the bus' and 'Purge all pedophilic elements from the Republican party', you're more than complicit.
>and >>1465866 says anything other than 'Throw Trump under the bus' and 'Purge all pedophilic elements from the Republican party'
...and that's all you had to say.
>Sorry I don't care about
...children. Or you would by saying 'Throw Trump under the bus' and 'Purge all pedophilic elements from the Republican party'.
>stupid fuck
>what >>1465856 says
Every time you refuse to do so, the only 'stupid fuck' here is you, pedo enabler.
>>1464655
Sorry that it's not only your Pedo-in-Chief who has already been gotcha'd no I'm not

>>1465878
>I throw Joe Biden under the bus for trying to run when Americans overwhelmingly thought he was too old, ensuring Donald's victory.
You people voted for him and defended him, even after he was caught on camera sniffing children's hair. Not to mention all of the Hunter Biden shit he covered up.

People like you are easily programmable. You committed riots and tried to force your neighbors to undergo an experimental medical treatment because the TV told you it was morally necessary. Same shit with the Epstein Files. And yet you still think you have any sort of credibility to lecture republicans about anything.

>>1465866
>Implying pizzagate is real but Epstein isn't
Santa Claus is also real. Rumors to the contrary are funded by George Soros (he's trying to stop Santa from giving out coal so he can sell more wind turbines which are secretly turning people gay)

>>1465885
There's no real point to engaging with the shill. They just shitpost so they can pretend the dopamine rush they've been programmed to receive whenever a lib refutes their worldview is the same as being right.
They have to do this more and more often to hit the high they need to keep ignoring the truth.
I just hope their eventual botched suicide makes the papers so we can at least get a laugh when they stop showing up

>>1465887
>People like you are easily programmable
Lemme get this straight: the Democrats programmed me to criticize the Democrats?

The floor is open if you'd like to share a single criticism of your favorite billionaire.

>>1465887
>not saying 'Throw Trump under the bus' and 'Purge all pedophilic elements from the Republican party'
You're already programmed to not say that. Why?:
>and >>1465887 says 'I have every right to say 'Biden is a pedo!'
>I say 'Purge all pedophilic elements from the Democrat party'
>'You don't have the right to say 'Trump is a pedo!'
>and >>1465887 doesn't say 'Purge all pedophilic elements from the Republican party'
Because you're a hypocrite.

>>1465890
>There's no real point to engaging with this shill
Eh, it's like watching trash tv á la my 600 pound life, hoarders, or my strange addiction. It's entertaining every now and then to poke a maga and see what bizarre schizo-babble they come up with.

>>1465880
What part of
>Every disgraced and locked up pedo is a win, jackass.
Didn't you understand. If you really believe the problem is unsolvable and none will ever face justice, and your response to that is to vote for the pedos rather than shoot them, then you're subhuman scum.

>>1465904
>Nooooo, but we have a picture that totally proves Biden sniffed hair, so I'm just saying that everyone's a pedophile so you might as well vote for Donald without arguing why Donald isn't a pedophile

>>1465247
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bondi-beach-shooting-police-slammed-being-frozen-during-rampage-1763081
>Scuri said that he saw 4 police officers not firing back at the suspects. 'Twenty minutes, there were four policemen there. Nobody give fire back. Nothing. Like they froze,' he said of the slow response. "I don't understand why."'
You don't need guns for protection, they said. Just let the police handle it, they said!

>>1465940
>You don't need guns for protection, they said. Just let the police handle it, they said!
If you think less people would have been killed if the thousand people in attendance had drawn on the shooters, you've never been in a chaotic situation. You also have way more confidence in your fellow man than a rational human being.

>>1465942
>If you think less people would have been killed if the thousand people in attendance had drawn on the shooters, you've never been in a chaotic situation.
Care to explain how we have HUNDREDS of examples of concealed carriers stopping active shooters before they can commit a mass shooting then, faggot?!?

>>1465904
>Didn't you understand.
You're not ready to talk about what is actually required to fix this problem, just cry about other people not doing it on your behalf and then vote for another democrat in the future.

There's also the racial element involved with Epstein, which again, none of you fags are ready to talk about.

>>1465946
>Care to explain how we have HUNDREDS of examples of concealed carriers stopping active shooters before they can commit a mass shooting then, faggot?!?
Most people don't concealed carry. We also have plenty of examples of misidentification shootings. Just a few days ago the largest police shooting settlement ever got paid out to the family of a kid that got shot by a cop for running away from being shot at by someone else.

You view concealed carrying as some sort of inherent good that allows the innocent to protect themselves from the guilty, but the reality is if everyone did it, we would be in hell.

Also
1. We don't have hundreds of examples of that.
2. Most shooters stopped by someone other than active duty police or military are stopped by unarmed randos like the guy that disarmed one of the shooters here.
3. Most carriers that stop active shooters are off duty or retired police or military, security guards, or in one case a firearms instructor. Ie people that have been trained on how to safely handle a weapon and who it isn't controversial all that they be armed. And even they fuck up a not insignificant % of the time.

>>1465947
>You're not ready to talk about what is actually required to fix this problem
Bitch, your claim is the problem can't be fixed so you shouldn't even worry about it and just vote for pedos. Shut your whore mouth and go die in a ditch.

>>1465948
>Most carriers
Most non-active duty carriers*

>>1465948
>Most people don't concealed carry.
Which is why A) more should, and B) we need less gun free zones like this was.
>We also have plenty of examples of misidentification shootings.
Usually from police, so once again "just trust the government, they said".
>Just a few days ago the largest police shooting settlement ever got paid out to the family of a kid that got shot by a cop for running away from being shot at by someone else.
lol speak of the devil.

>You view concealed carrying as some sort of inherent good that allows the innocent to protect themselves from the guilty, but the reality is if everyone did it, we would be in hell.
And yet everyone does it in places like Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc. Fun fact: there was a study in Florida some years ago that found CHL holders were less likely to commit crimes than the police. I found that interesting.

>1. We don't have hundreds of examples of that.
Oh yes we do. Do you want me to flood this thread with examples?
>2. Most shooters stopped by someone other than active duty police or military are stopped by unarmed randos like the guy that disarmed one of the shooters here.
Because most mass shootings take place inside gun free zones where concealed carriers aren't allowed.
>3. Most carriers that stop active shooters are off duty or retired police or military, security guards, or in one case a firearms instructor.
Good for them. Still plenty of cases of normal civilians that have stopped active shooters.

>>1465955
>Please ignore how Australia has had around 30 mass shooting casualties in the last 10 years compared to the US' 5000
Kinda blows a hole in your "More guns will solve this!" theory.

>>1465956
>Kinda blows a hole in your "More guns will solve this!" theory.
Until you look up and find that 94% of mass shootings occur inside gun free zones.

>>1465957

So, australia being a majority gun free zone, should have more mass shootings than the US. The reductio of this position doesn't lead to the mass distribution of weapons to a population.

>>1465955
>Usually from police,
[citation needed]. Also pretty sure even if that were the case, that would be pretty easily be explained by it usually being cops responding to shootings.
>so once again "just trust the government, they said".
I'm arguing you shouldn't trust anyone. You're the dumbass saying trust every rando with a gun.

>And yet everyone does it in places like Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc. Fun fact: there was a study in Florida some years ago that found CHL holders were less likely to commit crimes than the police.
And as we all know there are no shootings in Arizona, Texas, Florida, that aren't immediately ended by a good guy with a gun.

God, you're a dumbass. Most people with carry permits don't carry.

>Oh yes we do. Do you want me to flood this thread with examples?
Do it, bitch. I'll get the popcorn. I can think of like 2 instances were it was actually stopped by just some carrying rando and not someone with basic firearms training. 3 if you count the guy that had to go get a gun from his truck.

>Good for them. Still plenty of cases of normal civilians that have stopped active shooters.
You said hundreds.

>Because most mass shootings take place inside gun free zones where concealed carriers aren't allowed.
[citation needed]

>>1465957
>Of the 156 mass shootings that occurred from 2009 to 2016, only 10 percent occurred in gun-free zones. The majority of these shootings—63 percent—occurred in private homes.54

And really this should be obvious. Most people are shot by someone they know and a mass shooting is just 3 or more victims.

>>1465959
>[citation needed].
lol you gave an example in your last post. Every time we hear about these misidentification stories it's from a cop, like that black kid shot in a mall in Atlanta who was stopping a gang shootout.
>You're the dumbass saying trust every rando with a gun.
1) didn't say that
2) lol getting mad now?

>And as we all know there are no shootings in Arizona, Texas, Florida, that aren't immediately ended by a good guy with a gun.
We don't live "in hell", like you claimed... well except for the heat. Licensed carriers aren't running around shooting licensed carriers in these states. I should know, I live in one.

>God, you're a dumbass. Most people with carry permits don't carry.
lmao speaking of [citation needed].

>Do it, bitch. I'll get the popcorn.
Okay then. I'll start with this one: https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/a-west-virginia-woman-kills-man-who-fired-shots-into-party-crowd

>You said hundreds.
I said "HUNDREDS of examples of concealed carriers stopping active shooters". Which we do.

>[citation needed]
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/john-lott-gun-free-zones-mass-shootings/

>>1465962
>The majority of these shootings—63 percent—occurred in private homes.
Interesting...

watch out schizo shill, lying about gun crimes is how charlie kirk died

>>1465964
>[citation needed].
>lol you gave an example
Oh. You're an idiot.

>Okay then. I'll start with this one: https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/a-west-virginia-woman-kills-man-who-fired-shots-into-party-crowd
One of 3 I'm aware of. The next one is the Waffle House one, right?

>https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/john-lott-gun-free-zones-mass-shootings/
Cool study, bro.

>>1465958
There are some factors to consider:
1) Australia doesn't really have the US... let's call it obsession with rights and are more in favor of big government. So when they mandated a gun buyback program, hardly anyone resisted. That's not possible in the US.
2) it's an island nation, and while it is a big island only 13% of that land mass is actually inhabited. Almost 90% of the people there live in urban areas.
3) Australia doesn't have the same criminal and gang problems we do, nor the same trafficking (guns, drugs, people, etc.) issues we have.

>>1465968
>nor the same trafficking (guns
Imagine thinking gun trafficking *into* the US is a problem, lmao.

>>1465967
>>[citation needed].
>>lol you gave an example
>Oh. You're an idiot.
From the guy who said DURR MOST LICENSED CARRIERS DUN CARRRY DURR lol. Where's your citation for that one?

>One of 3 I'm aware of. The next one is the Waffle House one, right?
Don't worry, I got all night to give you examples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackamas_Town_Center_shooting

>Cool study, bro.
Well if you can provide a counter-example then please do so. But before you do! Lets get one definition crystal clear.

Gun free zone = any place a gun owner - licensed or not - open or concealed - is not allowed to carry a gun. Simple.

>>1465969
I was referring to trafficking in general that Australia doesn't have, but if you want to split hairs...

>>1465970
>Roberts entered an employee-only back stairwell that runs behind all stores in the mall and committed suicide after descending one level
Holy fuck, lmao. This is your good guy with a gun taking down the shooter?

>Well if you can provide a counter-example then please do so.
I literally already did, in study form. It's just a fucking lie.

>>1465979
>Holy fuck, lmao. This is your good guy with a gun taking down the shooter?
Seeing as how he stopped an active shooter without even firing a shot, yeah. I'm sorry you don't think that counts.

>>1465979
>I literally already did, in study form. It's just a fucking lie.
The study you didn't cite that claims the majority of mass shootings occur inside houses? Yeah good one.

>>1465979
Oh and by the way I'm still waiting on your citation for most licensed concealed carriers don't carry guns. As a licensed concealed carrier, I find that very unusual.

>>1465982
>Seeing as how he stopped an active shooter without even firing a shot, yeah
The shooter killed himself in a completely separate part of the building. Also the dude *couldn't fire a shot because there was a bystander in the line of fire* which if you'll recall DIRECTLY RELATES TO MY ORIGINAL POINT ABOUT MORE GUNS IN A CHAOTIC SITUATION BEING BAD.

>>1465983
>https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/25/how-many-americans-carry-guns-daily
>Six million Americans carried guns daily in 2019, twice as many as in 2015
>https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/the-most-armed-states/
>There are nearly 22.9 million concealed carry permit holders nationwide as of 2023. That number doesn’t take into account the people who are not required to obtain a permit to carry in the 29 states that have adopted some form of permitless carry,

Please get out of your dumbfuck bubble.

>>1465983
you know this is an anonymous website right. any time you try to use appeal to personal ethos you end up looking even more fraudulent

>>1465984
The active shooter saw there was another guy there with a gun that could stop him, his cowardly ass stopped shooting unarmed innocents and hid away like the bitch he was, and then killed himself rather than go to jail. I count that as a win for concealed carriers. But hey, if you disagree I can keep giving you other examples.

>which if you'll recall DIRECTLY RELATES TO MY ORIGINAL POINT ARBLEGAFBLEI'MSOMADREEEEEE
Notice how he held his fire, unlike the police you referenced earlier?

>Six million Americans carried guns daily in 2019, twice as many as in 2015
>There are nearly 22.9 million concealed carry permit holders nationwide as of 2023. That number doesn’t take into account the people who are not required to obtain a permit to carry in the 29 states that have adopted some form of permitless carry,
Yeah I'm not seeing the part that backs up your claim that... and let me get it directly... "Most people with carry permits don't carry." Could you please quote that part from either of those articles? (probably not)

>>1465996
>Notice how he held his fire
Notice how he didn't stop the shooter.

>Yeah I'm not seeing the part that backs up your claim that... and let me get it directly... "Most people with carry permits don't carry."
Are...are you brain-damaged? You're REALLY dumb even by the standards of people that disagree with me on this hell site.

>>1466000
>Notice how he didn't stop the shooter.
Except he did. Notice how the shooter stopped shooting when he saw him?

>Are...are you brain-damaged? You're REALLY dumb even by the standards of people that disagree with me on this hell site.
Still not seeing that bullshit claim you made up.
>Most people with carry permits don't carry.
>Source?
>Uhhhh ... More people are carrying guns than before!
That's great, sweetheart. Now show me where "most people with carry permits" ... "don't carry"... the thing they went through all the effort, time, money, etc. to get a permit to carry. You can't.

>Bondi gunmen were inspired by Islamic State, had travelled to the Philippines, Australia police say
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/sydney-mourns-15-killed-australias-worst-mass-shooting-nearly-30-years-2025-12-15/

>>1466009
conservative racism might be valid in the US if a majority of terrorists were targets of conservative racism
but instead its conservative racists doing most of the terrorism
hey wait, i see the problem now

>>1466001
>Except he did. Notice how the shooter stopped shooting when he saw him?
Pretty sure the shooter stopped shooting when he blew his brains out.

>Now show me where "most people with carry permits" ... "don't carry"... the thing they went through all the effort, time, money, etc. to get a permit to carry. You can't.
No, but seriously, you're brain-damaged, right? I refuse to believe anyone could be this deliberately disingenuous.

>>1466014
>Pretty sure the shooter stopped shooting when he blew his brains out.
Well this is going nowhere. The CCW stopped him from shooting anymore people. Obviously you disagree, so let's move on to the next example (I told you, hundreds): https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/19/us/eli-dicken-indiana-mall-shooting-bystander

>No, but seriously, you're brain-damaged, right? I refuse to believe anyone could be this deliberately disingenuous.
lol all your ad homs can't change the fact that you made up a bullshit claim - "Most people with carry permits don't carry." - and now you can't back it up. You have no evidence anywhere, no source you can link, that shows that most people with carry permits don't carry.

>>1466053
From this very article

>There were at least 434 active shooter attacks in the US from 2000 to 2021, according to ALERRT data. Active shooter attacks were defined as those in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place.
>Of those 434 active shooter cases, an armed bystander shot the attacker in 22 of the incidents. In 10 of those, the “good guy” was a security guard or an off-duty police officer, ALERRT data showed.

>I told you, hundreds
I know. You lied. By the way, of those 12, some were military, former military, firearms instructors, or former cops, eg
>https://www.police1.com/police-heroes/articles/firearms-instructor-took-out-gunman-at-texas-church-service-FBYzzr8fsMg75zc9/
as I previously said because I'm not a liar.

>lol all your ad homs can't change the fact that you made up a bullshit claim - "Most people with carry permits don't carry." - and now you can't back it up. You have no evidence anywhere, no source you can link, that shows that most people with carry permits don't carry.
Please learn to read.

Also thanks for handing me an article that proves my argument for me. We're done here. God I haven't blown someone the fuck out this hard in months.

>>1466060
>as I previously said because I'm not a liar.
LMAO
>"Most people with carry permits don't carry."
>Please learn to read.
Show me an article that says this. You can't, because your dumbass used AI to ask that question and it fed you a line from https://www.shootingnewsweekly.com - only problem is you didn't bother to actually read the article, so you took
>"more people are carrying without a permit"
to equal
>"Most people with carry permits don't carry."

>We're done here.
Yeah we're done here because you realized you fucked up and can't back up your bullshit claim. Back to plebbit with you.
>God I haven't blown someone the fuck out this hard in months.
lmao

Dashcam video shows couple trying to stop gunman before being killed in Bondi attack
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2341yx719o
A couple killed in the Bondi Beach shooting tried to stop one of the alleged attackers by grabbing his gun, dramatic dashcam footage shows.

Boris Gurman, 69, and his wife Sofia, 61, courageously stepped in to try and protect others before being shot themselves, their family said in a statement.

Video of the incident shows Mr Gurman, who was retired, wrestling with one of the alleged gunmen and taking the weapon off him, before they both fall onto the road.

Mr Gurman then gets up and appears to hit the suspected attacker with the gun. The attacker is then thought to have got another gun which he used to kill them.

"While nothing can lessen the pain of losing Boris and Sofia, we feel an overwhelming sense of pride in their bravery and selflessness," the family said.

"This encapsulates who Boris and Sofia were - people who instinctively and selflessly tried to help others."

The Gurman couple, who were Jewish, were the first two people killed in Sunday's attack, the Sydney Morning Herald reported.

At least 15 people have been confirmed dead in the shooting, which happened during an event to mark the first day of Hanukkah.

>>1466080
>Another victim, the late Reuven Morrison, was killed as he was throwing bricks at the terrorists
https://x.com/Faytuks/status/2000881583813972451

>>1466060
>From this very article
>There were at least 434 active shooter attacks in the US from 2000 to 2021,
>at least
>No, but seriously, you're brain-damaged, right?
LMAO

>Of those 434 active shooter cases, an armed bystander shot the attacker in 22 of the incidents.
>Because most mass shootings take place inside gun free zones where concealed carriers aren't allowed.
LOL

>Please learn to read.
KEK

>>1465247
>He dropped the beer he was carrying for his brother and ran
Not a real Australian. Deport this poofter.