It's a completely new technologyICE cars can't even compete with EVs on acceleration
>>28605155heavyinterior tends to be teslalike minimalism with giant screens and lots of empty spaceno noiseautomatic onlyoverair updatesexpensivelow top speed
>>28605155all of them drive almost identically which isn't even that fun to begin with unless all you care about is straight line acceleration like some drag racing boomer faggot
>>28605155EVs are boring. No cool sounds, no cool looks, ugly postmodernist retard slop interiors that are just featureless plastic and a big screen. I don't care about acceleration beyond a certain point. It doesn't fucking matter to me if a car does 0-60 in 3.8 seconds or 2.8 seconds, I don't drag race and I'm not going to buy a car solely because of its acceleration. Now fuck off slide thread faggot.
>>28605155It's the same cope Miata owners have been using for 30 years about how it's not about speed it's about "soul" and "character" and various other nondescript buzzwords that distract from the fact their car just isn't very good
Because people are trying to ban what I like through gov't intervention, and they've already done it in countries like Norway.I'm not trying to ban EVs.Duh.
>>28605155gay regulatory mandated technology can't compete; actual engine technology is no contestthese aren't mutually exclusive things either; electric transmission is useful, see turbo-electric or diesel-electric for example; the problem is not the traction but the generation; batteries as an energy storage medium are far less efficient than hydrocarbons as an energy storage medium
For me, it’s simple
>>28605204>>28605155
>>28605207This is the most retarded shit ever
>>28605208facts don't care about your feelings
>>28605155Top speed and 0-60 are currently held by gas.
>>28605359Nobody is saying fuel isn't dense on energy. That's not what the whole argument against petrol is about. Not only is only 30% of that converted to actual kinetic energy in the engine, but that energy is also toxic to our planet and lungs. Your graph is hugely misleading in equating a battery to an ICE engine. A modern EV will tske you about 300 miles fully charged. A modern ICE will tske you about 500 miles. It's not a world's difference as painted in that image. Nobody drives around with 300L of gasoline in the tank. That's retarded.
>>28605362Your gas car, or a million dollar gas car?
>>28605155>It's a completely new technologyhttps://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/first-electric-car.html
>>28605366>Not only is only 30% of that converted to actual kinetic energy in the engineFor youhttps://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER50/>With e-POWER, Nissan specializes the role of the engine for electricity generation, and, furthermore, achieves a thermal efficiency of 50% through lean combustion*2 based on the unique STARC*3 concept and waste heat recovery technology.This makes it possible to further improve fuel efficiency and to reduce CO2.
>>28605366>That's not what the whole argument against petrol is about. Not only is only 30% of that converted to actual kinetic energy in the engine, but that energy is also toxic to our planet and lungs.You've no doubt seen my arguments before.Most electricity is made by burning fossil fuels, coal is still the #1 source of electricity worldwide. Methane (natural gas, what we do fracking for) is the largest source in the US. Power plants are 30-60% efficient, there are losses in modulation and transmission, and losses within the EV. Power plants emit the same toxic chemicals to our atmosphere, ICE cars have catalytic converters. It's just moving the emissions to where people can't see it happening.EVs are heavier so they require more energy to accelerate and keep moving, F=ma...It can be argued that EVs are worse for the environment unless you happen to live where electricity is solar/wind/hydro/nuke. The fact that the argument can be made shows that EV aren't significantly better for the environment, if they were I might feel differently.Ultimately, as I said above - people are trying to ban ICE over conjecture of what they WISH EVs were (most people still believe all electricity is clean energy) and I'm not trying to ban anything. If people were trying to ban what you like, no matter what it is, you'd be upset too.
>>28605155>It's a completely new technologykek
>>28605366How do you think power plants make electricity? kys
>>28605155Acceleration is a one-trick pony that doesn't mean much.An RS5 accelerates fast but the turbo lag is atrocious so it's shit.EVs are appliances. Their driving dynamics are so numb they don't stir you to do anything with them.Have you ever seen a Tesla perform any sort of maneuver? You'll see BMWs. Porshe's, and rice burners darting in and out of traffic on the highway, training along at 120+, and going around corners on the backroads. The only maneuver I've ever seen a Tesla driver do is a Cybertruck pulled a "swerve three lanes over and then three lanes back to get around traffic." Basically standard pickup driver -fare. Other than that it's just straight line at moderate speeds.I test drive a P85D and it made me want to do nothing but drive in a straight line at moderate speed.
Thread proves ops point
>>28605397https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-03-21/evs-are-much-lower-emitting-than-combustion-carsMy BloombergNEF colleague Corey Cantor just published a detailed report on the lifecycle emissions of electric vehicles, looking at everything from average battery pack sizes by region, battery manufacturing emissions, current and projected electricity-generation emissions, day- and night-time charging trends, and more.Corey comes to the same conclusion that virtually all other independent studies have: EVs have lower lifecycle emissions than their internal combustion counterparts.Even in places like China, where coal still plays a large role in power generation, EVs have lower emissions overall. The reduction is around 27% there, compared to 71% lower in a market like the UK, where coal has been mostly pushed out of the generation mix. In a market like the US, an EV becomes a cleaner option after about 25,000 miles of driving, which is about 2.2 years for the average US vehicle.The power sector is changing rapidly, with more clean generation capacity being added to the grid. This means that by 2030, the breakeven point will have moved up significantly in all regions. An EV made in the US in 2030 will be lower-emitting after a year of driving, while in China, it will be after just over four years, based on current trends. Battery recycling eventually will push EV emissions down even further, as will localizing battery production closer to demand centers.One final caveat to all vehicle lifecycle emissions work is that most studies (including BNEF’s) don’t include emissions from refining and distributing gasoline and diesel.These fuels don’t just appear at the pump, and anybody who has driven by an oil refinery can see the vast scale of our current energy infrastructure. This is a tricky area to pin down, but global refinery emissions are somewhere around 1.4 gigatons of CO2 annually. That’s a few percent of global CO2 emissions.
>>28605510And are the emissions generated when manufacturing the batteries taken into account?
https://ev-lectron.com/blogs/blog/ev-fires-vs-ice-fires-safety-comparison-and-analysisAll vehicles, whether powered by gas, diesel, or electricity, carry energy that can ignite under certain conditions. Fires require three elements to occur: fuel, an oxidant (typically air), and a source of ignition.>In ICE vehicles, hot surfaces, leaking fuel lines, and sparking electrical systems are common ignition sources. For electric cars, battery fires—often caused by thermal runaway or electrical failures—are the main concern.EVs use lithium-ion batteries with an energy density of around 0.3 kWh/kg. Gasoline, by comparison, has an energy density of roughly 13 kWh/kg. That means ICE vehicles, including diesel cars, store nearly nine times more potential energy than EVs. When ICE cars catch fire, the results can be catastrophic, especially given the volatility of gasoline.>One of the most widespread myths is that electric vehicle fires happen more often than ICE vehicle fires. According to the National Transportation Safety Board and recent AI Overview findings, that couldn’t be further from the truth.Data from the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency further supports this: only 23 fires occurred among 611,000 electric cars—an incident rate of just 0.004%, compared to 0.08% for ICE vehicles.>So why the panic? EV fires are newer, more dramatic, and harder to extinguish, making them headline-worthy even though they are much rarer.Despite this data, EV fires receive more public and media attention because they are new, less understood, and often more dramatic due to battery chemistry. The visual intensity and the challenge of extinguishing an EV fire, especially when reignition occurs, can contribute to a heightened perception of risk. However, the reality is that most fires occur in older, poorly maintained ICE vehicles, and the actual frequency of electric vehicle fires remains very low compared to other vehicle types.
>>28605511Yes retard look at the image.
>>28605510>>28605513Can you post your hand with a timestamp written on it?
>>28605514Why not include it in the post? I'm not going to peruse the entirety of your post, including the contents of the image. Kindly go kill yourself, /n/igger.
>>28605513>can contribute to a heightened perception of risk. Weasel word kike shit. It isn't just a perception of more risk, IT IS MORE RISK.
>>28605158>heavytrue>interior tends to be teslalike minimalism with giant screens and lots of empty spaceThat’s not a EV thing, it’s a modern cars thing >no noiseThat’s a good thing >automatic onlyThere’s only one gear, what would you need a gear lever for?>overair updatesThat’s a good thing. If it triggers you just never enable WiFi.>expensiveSecond hand EVs are the best deal on the market right now. >low top speedIrrelevant. How often do you drive faster than 155 mph (250 km/h)?
>>28605155>It's a completely new technologyFalse.Get lost, liar.
>>28605519The first sentence is literally>looking at everything from average battery pack sizes by region, battery manufacturing emissions
I mostly hate due to weight and range. I like to avoid highways and take back roads. You cant find a charger always. And that they cost more. So, for the same price youre getting cheaper interior
>>28605368So "you" are hitting those burgerking laptimes?
>>28605568Not me but the millions of Tesla owners sure are hitting 0-60 way faster than the ICE shitboxes I see every day in traffic.
>>28605573And yet all they can really do with that is race people who weren't aware they were racing, then go spend the next 45 minutes parked at the Target charging station.
>>28605540>average battery pack sizes by regionAh so more kike weasel words to make EVs look better? Are they including where most batteries are being made for the most popular models in each country? Doubt battery manufacturing is all that green in shitholes like China or Vietnam.
>>28605525Meanwhile my 2026 Honda Civic
>>28605579It's really not green anywhere. How do you get Lithium without digging big holes (based)
>>28605513The study is locked to the public so there's nothing I can say about it.The thing about this is that there are so many factors and if you exclude just one or two details the numbers can be skewed heavily in either direction.How did they come to the conclusion shown in your pic (post x5510) that US ICE cars emit 5x more during "use?" EVs are heavier and most electricity is made from burning fossil fuels. What assumptions did they make? Did they have some formula where "X amount of gasoline equals Y amount of emissions?" I'll never know because they won't let me read the study.Has anyone considered banning server farms, airplanes, cargo ships, beef, etc? Look at picrel, that 15% slice includes planes, ships and trains (ships and planes don't have emissions controls like cars do btw), why does everyone only focus on cars? Obesity causes a large amount of pollution through agriculture and food cooling/transport, why don't we quantify that? Overpopulation increases emissions from everything. Cruise ships serve zero purpose yet guzzle upwards of 100,000 gallons a day. Why are cars always the focus?
>>28605579Just read the source and then shut up Migger
>>28605605The souce is just some web article talking about a study.This is the page you get if you try to read the actual report.
>>28605605Your data falls apart upon closer inspection. You should turn and face the wall, eco warrior climate cultist.
>>28605155>Why do enthusiasts hate EVs so much?Same reason they don't like most modern cars.They're overly appliance-like, mostly boring, and overpriced.
>>28605158>interior tends to be teslalike minimalism with giant screens and lots of empty spaceare you retarded>low top speed>bro id win in a race after 180mph brono one cares>overair updatesyou spent $15,000 in mods to gain 15 hp, i downloaded a free software update to gain 50hpstop being angry about it>no noisewhy would more noise be better? are you autistic and need to hear things?
>>28605581>my 2026 Honda CivicWhat a soulless hideous piece of shit No way you actually spent money on that junk
batteries expire even if you don't use themThat's a guaranteed $10k repair down the line>but this technology that only works in lab conditions is 5 years away fr-no it isn'tshut the fuck up
>>28605749>NOOOO WHY DIDN'T YOU BUY AN INCEL FORD CROWN VICTORIA OFF YOUR LOCAL PD TO LARP AS A COP JUST LIKE MEDilate, tranny
>>28605155No interest in driving a giant storage device. They're closer to my smart phone than my automobile.
heavy, grating sound, the owners.I've already raced electric cars, built battery packs, maintaining them, etc etc they were made by Losi and Team Associated. Boring!
>>28605806>Losi and Team AssociatedBased
>>28605155>ICE cars can't even compete with EVs on accelerationYou know the average half ton pickup truck is quicker to 60 than the average Tesla, right? Yeah your single motor M3 isn't that fast.
>>28605155No engine sounds. Mostly imported. Full of pozzed features like internet access.Ultimately I don't hate EVs, I just wish they wouldn't be pushed on consumers. I'll say this, if I ever bought an EV it'd be a Rivian R1T because they've got beds and they look endearingly silly.
>>28605155Nobody's making an Enthusiast EV. And Enthusiast EV would have a standard size, modular, easily changeable battery packs, on the go switching between rear wheel drive or all wheel drive(awd being an order option), it would be low and aerodynamic, without mimicking or being a tranny version of a legacy model(ex. charger daytona, Mach E), no fake engine sounds, it wouldn't cost more than $30,000 out the door for the poverty spec, and it would have a normal(2005-2015 era) fucking interior. Maybe even offer a actual range of colors since nobody except Dodge/Jeep is doing that anymore. Like seriously the bar is on the fucking ground. Don't overthink it, don't make it cost an arm and a leg. Just make a straightforward vehicle that happens to be electric.
>>28605155nobody hates EVs, we hate that every country is simultaneously mandating EVs only by 2030/2035 and that they will almost surely try to ban older ICEVs from driving on public roadsevery EV shill faggot tries to deny this but when you actually show them the receipts its suddenly "a good thing" now
>>28605745>you spent $15,000 in mods to gain 15 hp, i downloaded a free software update to gain 50hp>only 50hp>b58s can download +80hp with no mods
>>28605155Because EVs are genuinely bad cars you fuckin retard
>>28605745>i downloaded a free software update to gain 50hpHahahahahhhahahhahahhhhhah
>>28607226why are they so popular in Europe then?
>>28605525>>overair updates>That’s a good thing. If it triggers you just never enable WiFi.no, it's fucking horrible>>expensive>Second hand EVs are the best deal on the market right nowyeah because when the battery shits the bed you have a 2 ton useless piece of shit needing a 5 figures repair
>>28605525lolololol there's a reason used EVs are an anchor on car lots
>>28605155>Why do enthusiasts hate EVs so much?Different driving experience, and it's politicized.>It's a completely new technologyIt's as old as ICE, if not older.>ICE cars can't even compete with EVs on accelerationThey can if you pump unlimited money into them.I like EVs, but I'd need at least a hybrid backup car when the EV doesn't do the job.Family is warming up to them.>eTransit costs $1.2k/yr in electricity compared to $15k/year for an econoline for business purposes>hybrid merc has immediate response and family is happy with 400+ hp>holy shit teslas are really damn fastPersonally I really like them, but they don't make sense for me yet.
>>28605989>under $30k for an enthusiast sports carThey're just going to cost a lot of money. Speed and lateral-Gs cost money. No getting around that.
>>28608147Because everything else is taxed to (financial) death or outright verboten.
>>28605155Most of /o/ is bus riders. Don't take it serious here.
>>28605155Oh yeah? What’s the fastest accelerating car ever produced? Spoilers: not an EV
You could set gearing in an electric drivetrain such that six gears makes sense and put a manual in but car companies aren’t creative
>>28605155I rather like them for commuter-box purposes. Don't see the point in BEV sports cars though.
>>28605525>>no noise>That’s a good thingi like when car go brr
>>28605155That's it though, they are a one trick pony. The car was better than the horse in every way. So far, BEV appliances are worse than their ICE counterparts in every other way while costing more. Doesn't help the best make in the game got labeled the fourth reich by the blithering masses.
>>28605770lol automatic civic whats even the pointonly thing hondas had going for them was pretending to be a racecar
im a car enthusiast not an appliance lover
>>28605513>intensity and the challenge of extinguishing an EV fire, especially when reignition occurs, can contribute to a heightened perception of risk>perception of risk>perception a fucking fire that burns more catastrophically, longer, and is also harder to put out does not "appear" to be of higher threat to anyone involved, it outright is
>>28609323Your transmission is old and shittyDilate, manualtroon
>>28605366>but that energy is also toxic to our planet and lungsthe most particles are generated by tire wear and guess which vehicle type produces more of that shitNu-cars already function as air scrubbers
