>It makes a NATURALLY ASPIRATED xxx horsepowerdoes anyone other than boomers actually think an engine being naturally aspirated is a significant plus?
I do.Faggot zoomer lmao
>>28651791I've come to appreciate N/A more over time. I prefer response to power.
>>28651791it you like flat torque curves for the entire rev range then yesturbos can have flat torque for the majority of a pull but you're always gonna compromise on one end or the other. superchargers are better for flat torque but still aren't very flat and are just worse than modern turbos outside of the price
>>28651791>naturally aspirated is a significant plus?It is.Naturally aspirated is preferred by a mile.Turbos and superchargers are not as linear, weight a lot more, and add cooling issues + complexity.I've driven a 700hp supercharged 427 LS at my local race track.Then a 700hp all motor 427 LS.The Naturally aspirated 427 is so much better.8,000rpm from a 7.0L.
NA motors are obviously the ideal. We are all cucked by emissions unless you've carefully restored some classic muscle car
>>28651800>superchargers are better for flat torque but still aren't very flatnigga what
All motor is sick670hp from an NA 5.5l v8 in the z06 is crazy
>>28651791>5.0L NA vs 5.0L TTTT is obviously superior>5.0L NA vs 4.0 TTTT is much better unless you're starting from idle>5.0L NA vs 3.0L TTNA is about the same performance wise, better from an enjoyability standpoint
>>28651810depends on the engine and tune
>>28651791people that like having room to work in the engine bay
>>28651791I do, FI engines sound like shit
>>28651791NA for longetivity right? I want my car last forever.
>>28651859NA for loud exhaust note, slightly flatter torque curve, and not much elseany modern engine without retarded boost pressure/turbo speed will last forever if you maintain it and die prematurely if you thrash it, even with good maintenance
>>28651791Longer engine life is a good thing and 500hp is enough for a road car
>>28651791High revving engines are fun
>>28651934Most people aren't driving s2000s around. I've driven two turbo vehicles and they redlined at 6800 and 7000 rpm, the 5.0 coyote redlines at 7000rpm, the LS3 in the camaro redlines at 6600rpm, gr86 redlines at 7500 and v8 lexus's rpm redline at 6800-7300 depending on model.
>>28651791Turbos suck balls. I'd rather be naturally aspirated than turbocharged. If I'm going to have forced induction I want a supercharger.
>>28651791One of my shitboxes has a turbo, and I investigated and fixed a number of turbo-related issues in it, so yes. Simpler is better (also less heat damage).
>>28651895>any modern engine without retarded boost pressure/turbo speed will last foreverNo, everything not made of metal will deteriorate to shit (way faster than in N/A), and the more recent the engine the less metal it contains. Tighter packaging and heat are no joke.
>>28651791if you care about horsepower it would be stupid not to have a turbo/supercharged engine. NA is for plain fun not dick measuring, I don't know where these boomers are going caring about hp like zoomers.
>>28651902>500hp is enough for a road car200 HP in a 1200 kg car is more than enough if you're not a larper, unlike 95% of this board.
>>28651957My car is a naturally aspirated V8 with 485 HP. That's far more HP than the vast, vast majority of forced induction cars.
>>28652209It also weighs 1,000 lbs more than the vast, vast majority of cars with its body style
>>28652218Lol no
>>28651940>Not swapping in an R1 for the cross plane sound of 14k rpm
>>28652222Each of my wheels is individually powered by a CBR250RR engine
I like NA for cheap maint, the characteristics and sound. But modern turbos and sc have come a long way. Turbo lag isn't as bad as it used to be anymore and kick in at 2.5-3.5k rpm nowadays. So if you prefer efficiency and power definitely go for forced induction.
>>28651800>N/A power>flat torqueWhen will retards stop repeating this retardation? Turbos can make peak torque at 2k RPM and then hold it flat until 7k
>>28652209>my car makes HEAPS OF POWER N/A!!!!Yeah that's why you've been complaining that you'll have to spend 20k on a built engine to make more
>>28652233>Turbo lag isn't as bad as it used to be anymore and kick in at 2.5-3.5k rpm nowadays.How about 20 years ago?Normally you'd want it kicking in right above the idle like larger displacement n/a engines do.
>>28652251Why the fuck would you want to be lugging your engine hard just above idle?That's something you'd only do with an engine which is terrible optimised for HP/L.
>>28651791turbo weebs when their blowoff valve sticks and sends 19 lbs of boost to delete a conrod
>>28652261When my blow off valve sticks it just makes my turbo do sick dose you wrenchlet
>>28651791There is something to be said about simplicity in design. My Jaguar XJL has a nat asp V8 and even though its a high end luxury car I can do a ton of maintenance on it myself.
>>28651972My stock NA Focus is zippy as fuck. Only 145hp in a 3000lb (1360kg) box.
>>28652267How about you blow me you faggot?
>>28651812This, turbos make things better but using them entirely as a crutch it’s great.
>>28652278I wanted to say 160 HP because that's what my Probe (1280 kg) has and it's plenty quick but went with a slightly higher number so some autist doesn't immediately shit himself over muh less than 200 HP. Power to weight is more important anyway.
>>28652255Because I neither drive at a racetrack nor launch my car every time using brake pedal? Normally cars stop and go, and stopping means going to idle revs.
>>28652248>making things up You drive a underpowered shitbox don't you. I don't actually have any particular desire for more power at the moment. It's extremely fast.
>>28652482No car needs three digits of horsepower
>>28652485>eurocuck moment
>>28652485Four is a bit over the top desu
>>28652485If the weight is under 2k2 poons, I agree.
>>28652407>nor launch my car every time using brake pedalThe auto tranny faggot reveals himself and all is explained.>I need my engine making bulk torque at 1500rpm because that's where my gay slushbox keeps it 90% of the time to save fuel and emissions
>>28652976>faggot >gay The percentage of gays in the male population is way higher than the percentage of cars with manual transmissions in the US, just saying.
>>28651791High revving NA>boost
>>28652949Five is right out.
>>28651791it typically means an engine was well designed and built and has relatively efficient combustion and is able to extract more energy out of the process compared to a poorly designed engine that say, has heads that flow poorly. or is just an epicly huge and powerful engine to begin with, maybe some combination of the two.an engine that makes lots of power NA could also make more power with forced induction of course, since that makes it even more effecient at combustion it were built for that instead but the basic design is still good.youd know this if you werent a stupid busriding nigger making low quality threads
>>28652233>turbo lag isn't as badThat's for two connected reasons.1. Better design/materials/build allows turbos to spin faster without breaking2. This allows a smaller turbo, which spools earlier, but still chokes as the engine revs out, to "balance" spool time with acceptable output.It's also the reason why nearly every factory TC vehicle has that god awful torque curve. From wheezy little Cruze 1.4Ts to bimmers with B58s. They all ramp torque up super quick, peak at 3k give or take some hundreds rpm, and suffer torque decline.I wish variable vane/vari geometry and vari manifold tech was cost effective. All turbo engines should have them.
>>28653349>peak torque from 1600rpm to 6500
>>28652261>bov>controlling boostFuck off nocars
>>28651791It is if you want instant power and a more linear power band. Depends on what you want to do with the power. A car that has 500 NA hp will be more linear and predictable at the limit vs. a 500 HP small displacement, hugely boosted engine with a 3,000rpm power band that will snap your rear wheels more easily.
>>28652248> 20k Unless you are building some sort of racing engine making 2,000hp I don't think so pal. Are you gold plating the engine? wtf
>>28651940>I've driven two turbo vehicles and they redlined at 6800 and 7000 rpmYeah, but where are they making actual peak power?
>>28653470based VR engine enjoyerVQs are already amazing (if you don't straight pipe them), and VRs are just them with a factory (aka not a bomb) TT setupthat being said, it's more like 2700 to 5500 rpm, though the falloff isn't bad beyond that
>>28652209okay and? your boat gets gapped by a 3.0 turbo with less than 400hp car which will also better in the corners, and have better fuel consumption, and on top of that a 2-3k investment can get it to 500hp? muscle car owners are delusional KEK
>>28652209vast majority? what are you talking about lil bro? the european econobox four pots? anyone who cares about hp will get a modern six cylinder turbo car which can make 600hp minimum easily the fuck are you talking about? You are just a retard caring about HP on a NA car.
>>28653491NTA but you made me look it upDefinitely a steady fall off up top, hard to say what RPM the boost actually starts at though because they start the dyno run at 2krpm
>>28651801>not as linearjust get a self driving tesla you utter faggot
>>28651791it kind of mattered before electronic traction control and engine management was widely feasible
>>28651791As with most things, it depends. My opinion is that turbos are cool when slapped onto an NA engine in your garage while shitfaced and extremely gay in any other scenario but thats just me.
>>28651949>more failure points == more failuresSimple as, thanks for posting intelligently. NA + manual transmission is god tier.
>>28653349>Better design/materials/build allows turbos to spin faster without breakingNew cars are garbage and will only get worse, manufacturers are intent on building shitboxes that will fail just outside warranty. Less is more.
>>28653470>same size as a 10+ liter big block V8 that does the same
>>28651791Yes. NA is better.
>>28652209Fellow ScatChad detected
>>28651791From an engineering perspective lack of forced induction is simply objectively suboptimal.A combustion engine is an air pump; atmospheric gasses are the working medium used for converting heat into force; the greater mass of air an engine can move, the more power it can develop; turbine superchargers allow you to move a lot of air with little weight; furthermore, they allow for much greater compression ratios too, which improve the thermal efficiency of combustion as well; thus, there are very few reasons not to take advantage of it, and all sorts of benefits to explore the technology for improving it's advantages and mitigating any drawbacks.
>>28654866Complexity and heat and cost
>>28654866>suboptimal>from an engineering perspectiveEngineering is a lot more than retard-autism min maxing your thermodynamics.Sorry you are dumb.
>>28654907I didn't say it was a no-brain path, I said it was a big-brain to the highest possible heights.And for that matter, an engine without forced induction designed to produce the same kind of power than an engine with forced induction can develop can very well be far more finnicky in terms of tolerances and difficulty of manufacturing.
>>28655008In reality, every single time engineers have a choice in the matter, the choice is always forced induction. Whether it's the Dakar Rally or F1 circuit racing.The benefits are too great and potential drawbacks nothing that can't be designed around. I'm sorry if you are emotionally invested in choice of powerplants but if you like pose as an engineer on the internet then one of the first things you should do is learn to let get better sentiments if the sentiments are getting in the way of better decisionmaking.
>>28655035I don't see any turbo trophy trucks. Seems like turbos are only good for womens sports.
>>28655041>every single time engineers have a choiceCongratulations you're retarded.
>>28655049You're allowed to run any type of engine you want....There's no limit on displacement or aspiration.
>>28655041Baja trucks like most motorsports are designed according to regulations that predefine the form-factor of what the designer is allowed to make. Because of the way the trucks are designed it is not competitive to use intake filters, and because intake filters are not used, NA engines are used to minimize the effect of intaken dust. Surely you can agree that this is an extreme edge case not generalizable to most situations.
>>28655035I didn't say anything about FI being good or not just that the perspective that performance is the only condition is incorrect.If it were possible to make 500 WHP turbo 6s with a standard of reliability and a cost people could justify 50 years ago they would have done it. Everyone would have.All aluminum, dohc 4 valves, and turbos had already been relatively ancient tech by 1970.But not in cheap (relatively), enduring passenger engines.Again, in a practical sense, engineering is the ENTIRE PACKAGE, all aspects, not just trying to min-max heat generated against heat lost.
>>28655065>just that the perspective that performance is the only condition is incorrect.Well speaking of assumptions that's good because I never actually said that either.When I say optimal I was in fact thinking of optimal in terms of total lifestyle considerations, and with respect to all possible trade-offs and pay-offs, there are very few situations where an uninducted reciprocating engine is the best choice, or perhaps more to the point, it is not the play for the most important or consequential situations of life or society.
>>28655035>engineering is F1 racingWhat are you, a 3rd year MechE? Wait until you join an OEM and have worry about packaging, serviceability, emissions, fatigue, manufacturability, crash, and much more. In reality, all those have entire teams with people's titles ending with "engineer" and they all have way different wants in the matter. If the EPA didn't have a gun to the average car company's head, the majority of engineers in said organizations would likely opt for a high compression NA engine as it would make so many of their jobs far easier and create a cheaper and more reliable vehicle for the customer as well.
>>28655064What part of there are no engine restrictions do you not understand? They also sure as fuck run air filters. Do you know how fucked the engines would be without them in those conditions? NA or FI is really irrelevant. A NA 8+ liter big block is still sucking in a fuckload of air.
>>28655053WRONGForced induction engines are penalised
>>28655091>Unlimited displacement 4-wheel vehicles. Vehicles must have a production appearing Truck orSports Utility (SUV) body. Two-wheel, four-wheel and all-wheel drive vehicles allowed.Gasoline and diesel engines with unlimited displacement allowed and may be eithernormally aspirated or forced induction. Electric powered vehicles are allowed in this class.
>>28655084That same EPA gun is also a limitation on everything that goes bang, forced induction or otherwise. 70+ mpg is easy if you can run combustion temperatures as high as you want, but NOx regs are effectively a hard cap on efficiency.
Porsche sells specialty models with high hp naturally aspirated engines and they sell every single one they make. More manufacturers should bring back offering naturally aspirated 6 and 8 cylinder engines not for max hp but just for smoothness and prestige.
>>28655097Literally changed the rule in the last few years
>>28655110That's just the spec class. Anything goes in the unlimited class.
>>28655118No, they changed the rule to allow forced induction in the unlimited class in the last few years.
>>28655101This is the real red pill to the matter. Everything combustion does at this point is just optimization. Creatively re-ranging catalytic converter placements and configurations, tweak lean/rich oscillations to improve converter efficiency, slightly bigger intercoolers: plumbing turbos with separate coolant loops, adjusting cam phasing by a cunt hair because an HPC told you to. The funniest thing I saw was supercharging a diesel because the engine couldn't generate enough enthalpy from how little fuel it used to actually drive a turbo charger that was usable in city driving.
>>28655120Nope. Turbos were still allowed even back in 2015. Turbos just can't compete.
>>28655127Brother... just look at the fucking rulebook you RETARDhttps://score-raceinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Trophy-Truck-5.14-Web.pdf
>>28655134You're still proving my point. A turbo 6.6 liter is going to make more power and torque than a NA big block even with the restrictor yet they still go for the NA big block.
>>28655136>said turbo engines aren't penalised>turbo engines are penalised>"YoU'rE pRoVinG mY PoInT"Congrats on doubling down on being retarded. As you could've read if you weren't retarded - the entire purpose of the air restrictors is to make sure the turbo engines don't make more power than the N/A engines, and if they did start making more power, they admit themselves they would make the restrictors smaller at any time during the season.
Reminder the internet has become full of 78 IQ jeets shitting everything up with their one note takes.You just might be arguing with a legitimately retarded person.
Yesno. Fewer parts = fewer parts to break. Reliability is critical. But also. More power. Depends on your needs and priorities.
>>28651814100hp and tq is a nice gain
>>28652278im into low power cars but anon 145 to the wheels if you are luck at 3000 pounds is a turd. you need to drop 1000 pounds .
>>28652295200 whp is the magic number. even in a 3000lb car its enough to get it moving properly
>>28653349they just slightly undersize the turbos. every little turbo engine out there can pull that same early torque curve and continue to redline if you properly size the turbo to the engine. most people go way too large and are spooling around 3k rpms
>>28653514a good dyno chart should have the boost curve
>>28655345When you're tuning engines with aftermarket ECUs sure, but that's just running up a stock car on the dyno to see what the powerband is like.
You will realize it's a plus when your turbo inevitably shits the bed and you have to dig to the earth's core to fix it.
>>28655351>spend $100 on a new beijing blow boy>swap it in an hourMust suck being a wrenchlet
broke zoomers now trying to convince themselves turbos are cool
>>28655571>turbos aren't cool>I hate racing cars anyway
>>28655571What's wrong, brokie? Can't afford to get a twin turbo kit for your car?Even if you did, it's not like you could afford to have someone else install it for you, get a tune done, or beef up the rest of the car to match your new torque curve.
>>28655575>>28655583Zoomers so hard up they cope with>KING JUST THROW A TURBO ON IT AND TUNE IT SO YOU CAN BE SLOWER THAN A BOOMER IN A C8 CORVETTE:skull: :skull: :skull:
>>28651791Naturally aspirated just means it's stock and you're a wrenchlet kek, you could have the best na engine on earth and it's still not shit till it's boosted. Remember that, little wrenchlet.
>>28655628Broke ahh mf coping so desperately he makes up headcanons and pretends they apply to real life
>>28655635You paid a bunch of money to be slower than this boomer. We're stealing all your women too ooga booga nigga.
>>28655639blud really doubling down now lmaoenjoy making up stories while i lead a fulfilling life
>>28655628>HOLD THE TURBO, I actually don't want forced induction on my engineSaid no racing driver ever
>>28655639the gt3 owner is paying a whole lot more money to just barely be faster than a kit basherthe best porche engines all use forced induction too btw
>>28655657Everyone is a racer here, right
>>28655661>just give me a commuter, driving fast is lame actuallyOooof
>>28651902Man, 300whp is more than enough in a 3000lb road car.
>>28655686not really, i mean if youre used to cuckboxes and stuff yea but 300hp is literally v6 numbers kek
>>286556863,000 lbs is too heavy for a fun car.
>>28655687Doesn't matter what engine it is, 300hp at the wheels in a 3000lb car is doing 0-60 in the 5s range easy. That's quick
>>28655688>Caymans aren't funDon't lie, you drive an econobox and larp as a purist because it's light
>>28651798>I've come to appreciate N/A more over time. I prefer simplicity and longevity to power.FTFY.
>>28655689It's just quick enough to be fun, but the range between "quick enough" and "scary fast" is incredibly wide
>>28655682Oh, a street racer, even
Real power vs fake power
>>28655689With a good modern gearbox (and by that I mean a DCT 7 or 8 speed with a ratio spread better than 6.5) and tires 300 wheel @ 3k lb should be able to do high 4s. And that's assuming the car is 3000 and we add 200lbs of driver + whatever else.300 wheel is 350-380 crank depending on what we call the drivetrain loss %
>>28655655>making up storiesDaily Porschelet L>>28655657Turbos make a car SOUND LIKE SHIT>>28655658Who in the fug is the GT3 owner. No one on /o/ has confirmed they own a GT3.
>>28655381>swap it in an hourlmao even. These days they almost inevitably mean dropping a midpipe, a manifold (which is burried under other crap), possibly removing a TMIC, dumping coolant, and pulling eleventy vacuum lines out of the way before even touching the turbo and all the heat shields that have rusted all around it. Oh, and the studs on the turbo are probably seized at this point.
