For winter tires it's the compound that's important so it stays pliable in cold and doesn't turn into a hockey puck. For rough roads it's the pattern that's important for traction. So just find a tire with winter compound and an offroad pattern and you'll be dandy.

>>28680832
It seems like my options are one or the other. off road pattern OR winter compound and nothing with both

>>28680821
any highway tyre will work on a dirt road. dirt roads are not offroad. everyone with a truck always asks what 2+2 is but they never like hearing that the answer is 4 for some reason
dueler lx, dueler at ascent, and destination at2 all have great cold and wet performance for year-round tyres

>>28680834
>any highway tyre will work on a dirt road. dirt roads are not offroad
this is not true
ive been on rough dirt roads and off road tires work better

>>28680835
work better is different from work
you are not getting stuck on a graded dirt road

>>28680838
that's literally happened to me before

>>28680839
well then it's not graded then is it?
people who ask these questions and people who give their opinions are both not specifying what the picture in their minds they are actually thinking about it, what their actual use-case is

>>28680842
actual really rough dirt roads in winter that have snow and ice on them, big ruts, uneven surfaces, loose gravel

>>28680845
what are you using right now

>>28680847
bf goodrich geo drive (road biased all terrain)

>>28680851
so exactly what something like destination at2 or dueler at ascent was made for
next time you're in the market those have my seal of approval at any rate

>>28680873
neither come in the right size, I have found decent all terrain tires for the right size (nokian outpost nAT, Toyo Open Country), what I'm wondering is how a real winter tire would compare, esp. on rough dirt roads.

>>28680875
what size, are you the op or someone else

>>28680886
OP
235/65/R17
I am mainly trying to ascertain if some winter tires are better for really rough dirt roads and rocky rutted ones at that, than others.

Get some cheap chinky mud and snow tyres and carry a pressure gauge and 12v compressor with you.

That will get you out of 99% of problems. If you lose traction, just let the pressure down.

If you can't find good cheap offroad tyres in that size I'm sure you can go up/down a profile or go to 245 to find something more common. I believe the 00s Grand Cherokees ran 245/65/17 tyres from factory so there should be a decent selection.

I don't know about snow or ice but

>>28680912
I feel like mud and snow tires will be too noisy on the highway and I want to avoid having to adjust tire pressure if I can.
I can find all terrain tires in the size I want, what I'm asking, and can't get a straight answer to, is if winter tires come in an off-road flavor or just in general if winter tires or all terrain tires would be better for rough snowy/icy dirt roads and roads with ruts/rocks.
>I don't know about snow or ice
sigh

halp

>>28680891
https://tiresize.com/tires/Firestone/Destination-AT2-235-65R17.htm

Generally speaking tyres advertised as 'winter tyres' specifically are road going tyres with soft compounds for pliability in the cold. Also LT winter tyres generally don't come in that size either. A quality AT tyre with market segment leading winter performance is likely your best option/the best option available.

See,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNcbWbdKsQE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVSHMnkf0gY

Open Country ATIII's are 'known' for good snow traction, beating out the BFG KO's, and the Destination AT2's have even better traction, on top of having high wet grip for slushy/icy roads too, where most tyres only give one or the other. Pretty much everything you want. Don't have any data for the nokians but it's nokian so at the very least you can reasonably assume they will have good snow traction.

One option you may not have considered, though, is that Michelin makes cc2's in that size, too (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin-agilis-crossclimate-2 https://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin-crossclimate2), which will likely have better snow traction than anything else you can get besides blizzaks or hakkapeliittas, and the directional herringbone tread pattern is also good for loose surfaces in general.

See you next month for when you timeloop this topic again.

>>28681079
the tires will be purchased and fitted in a month's time
would normal winter tires suck on a rough dirt road?
>is that Michelin makes cc2's
which are not good for rough dirt roads...

>>28680833
Just get blizzaks or those nokian tires that no one can figure out how spell

>>28681096
the nokian tires would require custom order I think
blizzaks are performance tires so um no that's bad for rough dirt roads
the kia dealerships are running a 4 tires for the price of 3 special for october, but only on normal winter tires and all seasons

>>28681087


The agilis versions are made for delivery vehicles with heavy loads. You will be unlikely to blow a flat with any of the above options.
I've never seen anyone actually test all-weather tyres offroad, but there are a couple points of order.
Anecdotally, I have seen people report using them on SUV's where they performed ably over their mountain driveways and other gravel trails.
From a more theoretical perspective, paddle-like chevron/herringbone treads such as those found on many all-weather tyres are also fundamentally good for loose surfaces in general, so it's an example of convergent evolution.
There is also a bit of folk wisdom amongst people who do rally races on their own or with private teams, in that the soft compound of winter tyres provides advantageous grip for gravel stages, for people not springing for specially made rally rubbers. They're pretty much blown out after a single stage too, but that just goes to show. (The firestones were faster around the dirt and gravel tracks than the toyos too, as it happened.)

>>28681112
I don't care about performance at all, I care about gripping loose chunky gravel.

>>28681117
yeah, that's what i just talked about, you slow on the uptake?

>>28681125
>They're pretty much blown out after a single stage too

>>28681133
I wasn't telling you to get winter tyres for offroading. It was an anecdote in a larger narrative. Did you not read anything else?

>>28681139
sorry, im pretty exhausted man I mean well
I was on a long road trip
the worst bit was there was this game land road and it was not maintained well and very steep and it was not fun
I locked the center diff, it did ok, but it was still scary
my memory of once having all terrain tires on another car was that they really helped on that
i don't do any intentional off roading, just shitty roads to get to hikes and scenic stuff

>>28681148
That's fine, apology accepted. Well you have my recommendations at any rate, up to you now.

>>28681165
I still just don't have a sense of the performance of a winter tire vs an all terrain tire on a typical gravel road where some of it is ice and snow and other parts are ruts and loose rock.

If a winter tire is good enough for rough dirt roads then maybe I should just go with that cuz I am very worried about rain and snow and ice and it would be nice to not have to worry about those.
But is there an advantage to having an all terrain tire vs that?

>>28681267
A good high performance winter tyre like the ultragrip performance 3 or pilot alpin 5 will have about equivalent wet grip to a good all-weather or all-season touring tyre like the conti asc2 or cinturato c3. Nordic compound/ice friction/studless winter tyres like the vikingcontact 7 or hakkapeliitta r5 sacrifice wet grip and dry tread life for maximizing snow traction.
I don't think either has any advantage over an at tyre offroad. Unless you're driving through several feet of snow so deep that there is no other surface except snow.
The destination at2 has very good wet grip for an at tyre, on par with a highway tyre, alongside it's advantages in gravel traction and snow traction as well.
I don't think you can go wrong with it. Everything you've said so far makes it sound like the perfect fit in every way for your particular situation. Or the agilis cc2 if you are more worried about snow. They're all good tyres and I'm confident you'd be satisfied either way.

>>28680821
My Nokian Outpost NAT's fuck pretty hard. They're smooth and quiet on the highway and extremely grippy on gravel. I haven't tried them in the winter yet but they are marketed as a "all weather" AT. I'm not super confident how they'll perform yet but I've heard good things. They obviously won't perform like an actual winter tire on snow and ice but winter tires suck on gravel/mud/anything wet so pick your poison.

>>28681359
>They obviously won't perform like an actual winter tire on snow and ice but winter tires suck on gravel/mud/anything wet so pick your poison
Is there no way out of this conundrum?

>>28681362
Not really. There will always be a compromise. I'd pick a tire for the conditions you drive the most.

>>28681101
Blizzaks are snow tires what are you smoking

>>28681704
performance winter tires, intended for going fast, not for rough roads

Any highway terrain tyre or mild all terrain. Bridgestone Dueler, Yokohama Geolandar, etc.

>>28681738
I have that and it sucks. Not grippy enough.

>>28681746
I have no issues with the G015 here, with 99/1% road/off-road. The coldest it gets is a few degrees above zero Celsius, though.

>>28680832
Pattern for winter tyres is also important.
If im not mistaken winter pattern is designed to cram as much snow in them because they rely on the tendency of packed snow to stick to snow

>>28681772
>The coldest it gets is a few degrees above zero Celsius, though.
not the case here :(

hi