>wah wah CAFE should be repealed mmuh free marketright before it was implemented in the 70s cars were bloated shitshows with 9 mpg and very hard to park or turn. sometimes the free market doesn't always make good decisions. Europe never needed oversized rolling turds like this and neither do we.
>>28752245So instead we just...have a Lincoln Navigator that's as bloated and thirsty as that Continental but it's not a passenger car so it doesn't have to follow CAFE.
>weNice try, Europoor.
>>28752257Exactly. Fuck this commie.Now imma go burn a pile of old tires in celebration.Look what you made me do. Hope you're happy.
>>28752245silence, Europoor
>>28752245You will never be american.
>>28752247This. Regulation passed with the consent of corporations is just a way of to keep competitors out.>>28752259You sound like an absolute faggot.
>>28752247That ended up being an accidental happening nobody thought about in the 70s.
>>28752245CAFE existing isn't the problem, it's that it's written backwards in a way that incentivizes manufacturers to just make cars bigger so they can meet lower standards.
>>28752307the problem was more like that when it was originally written nobody thought trucks could be used as a loophole to get around it
>>28752245>70s cars were bloated shitshows with 9 mpg and very hard to park or turn.Some were.Most weren't.
>>28752299Dodge came out with their Lil Red Express in the 70s
>>28752326In those days the truck division was where they sent engineers for screwing up, it was akin to being exiled in Siberia.
>>28752245God this is so ugly. How did it even gain traction.
>>28752438it was just a grandma box
>>28752245>Europe
>>28752460The Mark IV was the hip yuppie Lincoln back then.
>>28752245You will never be European.And two, dead existing regulation is more harmful than having no regulations. You're worrying about a scenario that won't happen en masse
>>28752245>oh nooo ahhh cars were actually cool looking>grrrr cars were only capable of 9mpg but gas was cheaper than dirt so you could afford to drive such an inefficient vehicle prior to the oil crisis>wahhh the free market doesn't make good decisions, that's why we need nigger cattle regulations to completely ruin the market and artificially inflate the cost of everything via extortionyou deserve rape
>>2875268376 was post-oil crisis.
>>28752474Kekd.
>>28752685Still deserve rape, oldfag.
>>28752245>very hard to park or turnTell me you're a basement dweller without actually saying youre a basement dweller.
>>28752700OP is terrified of driving anything larger than a Yugo.
>>28752474
>>28752245>very hard to turnlol. steering assist was so strong on these kind of luxobarges that you could turn the wheel while stationary with LIGHT pinky pressure. one of the selling points back then for luxury was effortless steering. but now people prefer being able to feel the road even just a bit through the wheel
>>28752245yep,that's why 80s american fullsizes are PEAK.Still big but not needlessly uncomfortyably big,and not ridiculously fuel inefficient and unreliable like their predeccesors
>>28753213a lot of people at the time didn't like them. for one thing cops were disappointed at the loss of their 70s big block highway patrol cars.
>>28753213Also they didn't literally KILL people with smog and turn cities into dystopic looking hellholes
>>28752245FUCK YOU KIKE THOSE CARS WERE GREAT
it's funny but even during the Depression you couldn't sell small cars to Americans and the I6 became the usual minimum standard
>>28752245some downsizing was inevitable. these 70s monsters were mostly designed in the late 60s when prosperity was endless and Americans were really wealthy when you compare inflation adjusted wages. to match the average 1969 salary in today's dollars you would have to make $75 an hour.
>>28753213GM intended to replace the B-bodies with the FWD A-bodies. The B-bodies however were kept in production for fleet sales and due to the return of cheap gas in the mid-80s. They were definitely dinosaurs by then though.
>>28753226But in the 80s they did the most sold cars were corsicas/escorts and other japanese compacts
>>28753286>>28753226That was someone due to technological constraints. The engine tech they had pre-WW2 would produce a really rough-running I4. At that time raw horsepower mattered less than torque and smoothness.
>>28752245>70s cars were bloated shitshows with 9 mpg and very hard to park or turnThey were so goddamn cool though.
>>28753298not until you drive them. the emissions shit on them was evil.
>>28753298God, I know, right? Lincolns especially I feel have this roguish, almost menacing appeal to them that General Motors couldn't really replicate. It's sort of like how Jaguars kind of have a rep as a rogue's car.
>>28753328different styling ideas. GM favored European/aircraft-inspired designs while Ford, led by Iacocca and Bordinat, went for the neoclassical look. on that score the big Fords had much nicer interiors in the 70s while the GM ones looked kinda cheap and tacky.
>>28753334That had been GM philosophy since Harley Earl, they always went for aircraft-inspired styling.
>>28753334The 71-76 GM full-sizers were honestly not great cars, build quality was underwhelming and they had issues with roof rust. GM began making plans to downsize them as soon as they got to showrooms in late 70 but the plans were accelerated with the OPEC embargo. If anything the mid-size A-bodies were better cars.
>>28753342The 7th gen Suburban began attracting some popularity in especially the Midwest with people who wanted a family hauler and didn't care for the B-body station wagons.
>>28753351>people who wanted a family hauler and didn't care for the B-body station wagonsSubhumans.
>>28752245They're great party cars. I don't find them hard to turn but I grew up driving them. Most US roads aren't interesting so bringing the living room makes sense especially when stuck in traffic. These barges were quintissentially American. The station wagon versions had even more interior room.The drivetrains on those were the same as F-series trucks, which is why a Lincoln 460/C6 is in my '76 Ford wrecker. The front wheel bearings on the car are even larger than the trucks, a minor annoyance since I wanted the rotors off my engine donor for another truck. The 9" rear axles on many of those are popular for performance car and truck use after the housing is modded and axles replaced with shorter race parts.
>>28752245gas mileage in 69-79 full size Fords was dreadful, typically 9-10 mpg city and it got worse after the added weight of 5 mph bumpers in 74. on the other hand by that point the engines had been detuned and no longer needed premium gas like they did on the early ones from 69-70.
Ford and Mercury got the 69-79 platform a year before Lincoln did, just like the Panther platform was adopted a year earlier as Ford wanted to proof-test it before committing it to their flagship. The initial ones from 1970 were quite a bit different from the disco era Lincolns and were better performers as they didn't really have any smog stuff on them yet but they also needed premium gas. Engines were quickly detuned over the next few years.
>>28755143The 460 was a truck-only engine after 79 and Ford in fact temporarily discontinued them during 80-82. GM still offered 454s in trucks during that period despite scant demand.
>>28753351the 7th gen Suburban was the first one that was a suitable people hauler and not a crude, rough-riding work truck
I'm a Euro and i wish we had cars like your big V8 boats instead of shitty 1.6 liter diesels that struggle to go past 40 mphI want to get an 80s Impala or Crown Vic down the line
>>28755188>I'm a Euro and i wish we had cars like your big V8 boats instead of shitty 1.6 liter diesels that struggle to go past 40 mphCarter and Obama tried their damndest to get us there, though.
>>28755193Old Euroboxes are honestly terrible cars, plastic all over, cheapest shittiest interiors, uncomfortable, gutless, all that for average reliability and barely acceptable gas mileageI have no idea why someone would want to get one when you can get even a malaise era v8 barge for cheap
>>28752245>right before it was implemented in the 70s cars were bloated shitshows with 9 mpg and very hard to park or turn.based
>>28755216>Old Euroboxes are honestly terrible cars, plastic all over, cheapest shittiest interiors, uncomfortable, gutless, all that for average reliability and barely acceptable gas mileageyou just described the average Amerifat car in the 70s-80s-90s which is why Japan schooled them
>>28755216That description fits those v8 barges pretty well too, except for the gas mileage part
now try driving a real car and realize what you missed out on
>>28755225Euros had stopped making quality cars by the 70s eg. all the great roadsters were gone and instead you get something that's no different materially or quality-wise than a Chevy Nova.
>>28755220>>28755221Then you have no idea what plastic, gutless and uncomfortable really meansI drove an 80s Turbo Mopar and it was comparable to a mid tier Merc as far as interior went, decently padded, clean and good looking, real leather...The average entry level car here at the time had between 25 and 60 hp, you cannot sit there for more than 30 minutes or else your ass is going to start hurting
>>28755220did you know that Ford knowingly let the Pinto get out there with a dangerous safety defect because it was for poor people and they didn't care if you died because you were too poor to afford an LTD or Thunderbird?
>>28755220Why did so many American cars from those era survive while you simply never see 70/80s jap/euro cars from that era outside car shows?
>>28755235You might thank Iacocca for his efforts to put big car luxury in a compact/subcompact. On the other hand were you to drive a Cavalier from the 80s it was absolutely ghetto.
>>28755241I've seen plenty of 70s-80s Euro cars around. Jap stuff no because those cars rusted quickly.
>>28755239They did the exact same thing with the Crown Vic though.
>>28755245>This is ghetto
>>28752474Do you know what federalism is or how it works in the United States? It's governments all the way down.
>>28755245ha ha of course, GM hates anything that is not V8 equipped or could at least optionally have a V8
>>28755241What are you talking about? The percentage of survivors is minuscule, those old Americans cars were absolutely everywhere.
>>28755262My state has vehicle inspections so they won't let you drive something that natty.
>>28755245It can't be any worse than this
>>28755269the French and Italian manufacturers never had any luck selling cars here aside from supercars. actually even in Europe itself they're a joke and everyone wants German cars instead.
>>28755269What is that car in the background?
>>28755259You can still easily find a lot of them on the road today. How often can you say the same for their euro or jap equivalent. I can drive down any lower class American neighborhood and find a couple of Melaise era shitboxes still being daily driven.
>>28755272True, but most people here still drive Fiats/Renaults/Citroens and other shitty hatchbacks, old entry level basic Audis are several steps above them
My uncle worked at a Chevy dealer in the 80s and he said there was a very clear and obvious difference between a Cavalier and Caprice in build quality and overall refinement and you could tell which one GM cared more about.
>>28755278German cars get a bad rap in the US mostly because we only get the premium trim levels which are high maintenance and have lots of failure points compared to the shitbox models.
>>28755279Every brand does that. Spend more money, get a better showing from the brand. The cheapest bmws will feel like it while the 5 and 7 series will be much better.
>>28755282I feel like the 3 series has been as far you want to go for BMW since the 2000's.You are really not gaining anything useful in a 5 series, just more garbage.
>>28755281The entire car is just a giant failure point nowadays
>>28755282As he said, German cars are the opposite of that principle where the top trim levels are way worse and less reliable than the stripped 1.5L diesel ones.
>>28755272For one thing they couldn't provide parts or service worth a damn.
>>28755287>top trim levels are way worse and less reliableEvery car is like that though, top trim usually means bigger, more expensive to mantain drivetrain with lots of additional gimmicks (meaning electronics that can go bad)Are you stupid?
>>28755291>>28755282You just contradicted yourself here.
>>28755293That’s my post about the more expensive cars being better. You are replying to two different people.
Malaise-era USDM Mercedes were just as much rolling turds as domestic US cars.>only color you could get was beige unlike Europe where they offered a ride range of colors>fully loaded with all the power options which made them extremely heavy>lots of failure points as the cars had a maze of vacuum lines, all poorly documented and often subject to quarterly revisions>gas models were emissions choked>diesel models extremely slow>more weight from 5 mph bumpers>not allowed to have composite headlights until 1986
>>28752245"american culture" is just being as much of an obnoxious nuisance as possible to make the man love thoughts go away
>>28755293That poster was just pointing out build quality though, not reliability, which still rings trueA lower tier model won't have the top tier 600+ hp V8 as an option, but the options it will have will usually be cheaper to mantain and better suited to the average person that doesn't want to burn moneyDoesn't mean that the 600 hp V8 isn't a marvel of tech in of itself and that's why it's in the flagship model and not the entry level one
>>28755296Back then Mercedes were shipping about 60% of their total annual production to the US and Euros had to go on a waiting list.
>>28755296>diesel models extremely slowTop tier turbo-diesel models had 109 hp and 0-100 in 10 secs, they were slow from the factory
>>28755296those 70s M-B had an excellent reputation from the million mile diesel taxis but that wasn't the ones we got here
>>28755239to be fair:>1. At the time the Pinto came out it met US crash safety requirements>2. Ford needed a subcompact on the market yesterday to avoid conceding ground to foreign makes - not to mention GM and Mopar.Admittedly, the smart thing to do would be to rush one of the planned safety improvements into mass production, recall all the Pintos that were sold before that, hope no one died and pass it off as a happy little accident, but, in typical corporate fashion, management basically went "lol who fucking cares lets' just lobby to stall safety requirements for as long as we can."
>>28755296>only color you could get was beige unlike Europe where they offered a ride range of colorsreally? i never knew that. i always assumed you could get them in Burgerstan in any color just like here.
>>28755304There were no crash safety requirements when the Pinto started, the NHTSA only began crash testing cars in 1979.
>>28755305No they were mostly all beige. In Europe that was the traditional M-B taxi color and nobody orders it on retail cars. The single color setup was mostly to simplify logistics--like with all import cars, you could only get a few option packages here and were not able to freely pick individual options from a list like you could in Europe.
>>28755296>not allowed to have composite headlights I’ll never understand why people bitch about sealed beams when they are to your benefit but then defend the fact that Europeans aren’t allowed to have red turn signals.Anything to be on the opposite side no matter what, I guess.
>>28755307>in 1979.Due in part to lobbying from the Auto industry. The proposed standards were "it needs to survive a 20mph rear-end collision" implemented for 1972, and "It needs to survive a 30mph rear-end collision" implemented for 1973.
>>28755296Mercedes were the only European manufacturer back then to offer factory A/C instead of a dealer installed dash unit but too bad their A/C units were always really weak and couldn't cut it against GM's freezer bomb ones.
>>28755296That isn't the fault of M-B it's the fault of Amerifat safety/smog regulations.
>>28752247>Lincoln Navigator that's as bloated and thirstyA Navigator gets 17 city 23 highway MPG.
>>28755300Mercedes were pretty good at filling the hole left by Packard's demise in appealing to rich old money types who found Cadillac too tacky. And by the 70s Cadillac was starting to get cheaper and more ghettoized as well.
>>28755320i mean it doesn't have a carbed 460 V8 either
>>28755317no but it didn't stop them from demanding the government ban gray market imports as they were superior to the USDM models
>>28755328That was more because M-B dealers were angry at people demanding they repair gray market import models they didn't support or know how to fix.
>>28755326And? He's a retarded propaganda swallowing cum slurper. "Muh cafe". What a dumb bitch.The Continental also only had 202 hp and 353 lb-ft of torque. The Navigator has 440 hp and 510 lb-ft of torque.
>>28755339That's like the shittiest most emissions tuned 460 possible, back in the late 60s the same engine made over 360 hp and 500 lb-ft of torque
>>28755339>The Continental also only had 202 hp and 353 lb-ft of torquethis figure varies depending on the model year. remember that initial Continentals from 1970 didn't yet have emissions stuff and performance steadily dropped over the next few years.
>>28755342Particularly by 74 once catalytic converters and 5 mph bumpers arrived.
>>28755342The LTD and Marquis will have been a little faster as they were lighter weight than the Continental.
>>28752247So we need better regulations. Glad we can agree.
>>28755347Back then the Marquis had an inch longer wheelbase than the LTD and the Continental was 2 inches longer. The Panther platform however only gave the Lincoln a 1 inch longer wheelbase while Ford and Mercury were identical.
>>28755269>manual shift>no airbags>crank windowsPut a Japanese badge on there and /o/ would think it the perfect car and all you need.
>>28755307The design flaw was on the Crown Vic, Marquis, and Town Car too. And they never fixed it, even up to the end of production in 2011. Ford only offered retrofit fuel tank protection kits in the 2000s to police instead.
>>28755341>back in the late 60s the same engine made over 360 hp and 500 lb-ft of torqueIt didn't. In the 60's they used the "SAE Gross" method to measure horsepower. So the engine was on a bench, no intake, no exhaust, no alternator, no water pump, no A/C, no power steering pump etc.In the 70's they switched to SAE net horsepower. So all accessories attached with intake and exhaust.
>>28755507Yeah, it lost 30-40 hp from the switch to net, but emissions tuning was the big deal, compression went way down, all kinds of crap was added to the engine bay to try and mitigate emissions and increase fuel economy, which greatly decreased power, just look at performance metrics from 1960-71 and then onwards till circa 1979, power decreased every year with the same engines even after the switch
>>28752683>>grrrr cars were only capable of 9mpg but gas was cheaper than dirt so you could afford to drive such an inefficient vehicle prior to the oil crisisYou know those gallons would eventually end up in your lungs?
>>28755802The 460 wasn't even available in the LTD until 1974.
>>28755893they put it in the LTD and Marquis mainly because of the added weight of the 5 mph bumpers
>>28755897You could technically still get a base model Ford Custom 500 with the I6 until 73 as well.
>>28755905last year for the Custom 500 was 72, Galaxie was last offered in 73. about 90% of these went to fleet sales.
I should add that 5 mph bumpers were not specifically an NHTSA idea, but the insurance industry lobbied for them because they were tired of paying out for fender-bender accidents. The 5 mph bumper requirement was lifted in May 1982, effective as of the 1983 MY but many cars continued to have large cow catcher bumpers for a few years as manufacturers had to run through their existing stockpiles.
>>28755910Ford always had some of the ugliest 5 mph setups, it has been rumored that this was done out of spite and that the regulation was specifically targeted at them because some of their early 70s cars like this had W bumpers that would be very bad if you ran into a pedestrian with them.
>>28755255My first car was a hand me down Cavalier from the 90s, it was really comfy and really slow.
>>28756105it was always a crude car, though obviously the 90s Cavs weren't as bad as the 80s ones
>>28756108Wish I had taken some care of it. The thing died in traffic one day.>pull into co workers place just down the street>the radiator was completely empty>insert garden hose>problem solved>car runs for another few months before dying for good.
>>28755296BULLSHIT.Read the motortrend 450SEL review. The car was something like $25000 in the early 70s. It was lauded as the best car ever made with the writer saying it had no competition from Rolls Royce nor any sports car at highway speeds and beyond.Old Mercedes are completely different beasts.
>>28752245Or you could just quit being a whiny faggot and fuck back off to fagistan.
>>28756357The top tier special order SEL 6.9 did 0-60 in around 8 seconds, decently fast for the time, but almost any other American car from before the gas crisis would smoke it including Full-size bargesIt's definetely fast compared to most eurocars of the era though
>>28756108Is it even possible to be worse than a 90's Cavalier/Sunfire?
>>28756723Yes, an 80s one in particular one from the first two years when they had a carbed engine.
>>28756727afaik the carb was only in 82 models and they immediately went to throttle body in 83. that said these were rolling turds, GM really didn't care about them except to check off a box on a list.
>>28756732Yeah they sucked. The Escort and K-cars weren't as bad and at least tried. GM however always treated small cars like an afterthought since the 60s.
>>28756727Design wise it's already better looking than a mid 90s shoe though
>>28756727there were a lot of Cavaliers around when I was a kid, mostly 88 onward ones. once in a while you'd see the 84-87 version but the 82-83 ones with the frog eye headlights were absolutely extinct and i don't believe i've ever seen one IRL
from most common to least IME was always Cavalier > Sunbird > Skyhawk > Firenza with the last being really rare and i may have only ever seen one once. with all J-cars as well nearly every one i ever saw was not older than maybe 86-87. a real prize would be the hatchback versions which were dropped after 87 and i don't believe I've ever seen one irl.
op is a whiny libtard lol what a life
>>28755216>when you can get even a malaise era v8 barge for cheap$20k for a rusted scrapheap that barely runs is not cheap.
>>28756810I got mine for less than 10 grand and it has no rust on the frame. Just light surface rust on random things that can be easily replaced.
>>28752245>right before it was implemented in the 70s cars were normal sizedftfy
>>28756712Lol spec sheet racing and not even understanding what I said.Mercedes was the best car in the world at the time and nothing else came close on terms of performance.
>>28756842>I got mine for less than 10 grand and it has no rust on the frame. Just light surface rust on random things that can be easily replaced.70s Lincolns were like $2000-$3000 tops up until a few years ago
>>28757052It should have stayed that way too.
>>28756810You are buying Michigan cars why now? You know better than that.>>28757061>>28757052Pretty sure they still are unless a e-celeb I'm not aware of made a video about a 76 Mark IV.
>>28755296>>only color you could get was beige unlike Europe where they offered a ride range of colorsThis is the most retarded lie lolMB was upscale in the US, you could get any color you want
>>28757032>It was the best car in the world because it just was, okay????Even the Grosser was a shitbox compared to the Eldorado Brougham, though
>>28756810They don't cost that much even in Europe, for 20k i can get a rust free 5.0 early 70s 'Stang here
>>28755376Grand Marquis burned my grandparents house down lmao
>>28758055oh right, the 88-91 models with the ignition switch fires
>>28757395>Pretty sure they still are unless a e-celeb I'm not aware of made a video about a 76 Mark IV.If you want a decent one you'll be paying closer to 10k now. The ones under 5k usually have something fucked up with them, although you can get lucky and find ones driven by old people who dont understand
