when did Mercedes peak?i keep hearing the w123 was a big deal because its a cockroach that never dies but then there is stuff like s class
>>28755394W123 is a slow piece of shit with no character whatsoever.
>>28755394W126.
Yeah but US spec W123 was kinda ass
>>28755412Loved my 380SEL. Carburetor V8 land-yacht. Only thing that sucked was everything was pneumatic. Door locks, seats, etc. Pump went out and was $2k. Then the lines dry-rot. Apparently there are electric kits now.Some lady ran a red light in her Corolla and I hit her in the driver door going about 55. Wasn't a pretty scene.
When Porsche made their car.
for me its the w124>good engines>diesel god tier reliability>first production amgs>stock V8s>timeless design>tons of r&dafter that reliability went down the drain
>>28755555w124 was peak but k-jetronic was mistake
>>28755394Mercedes, Audi, BMW, they all peaked 2005-2010.
>>287553941970 and then again around 2005, with the k-jetronic, shitty transmissions and biodegradable harness being major low points inbetween, despite being literal chrysler products the m112 and m113 are amazing engines with the v8 supporting almost 600hp in certain configurations, nag1 is an amazing transmission that will support almost 800hp out of the box, if you can get over them being ugly they are fantastic cars that put bmw to shame, the early cars with twin solex or sequential injection pumps are the pinnacle of autistic technology, the cars look incredible and drive well for the period, manuals were available too
>>28755470>only color you could get was beige unlike Europe where they offered a wide range of colors>fully loaded with all the power options which made them extremely heavy>lots of failure points as the cars had a maze of vacuum lines to control all the power features, all poorly documented and often subject to quarterly revisions>gas models were emissions choked>diesel models were extremely slow>more weight from 5 mph bumpers>not allowed to have composite headlights until 1986
>>28755491>>28757381the vacuum hoses are natural rubber and tend to dry out over time, natural rubber being an organic material. they can be replaced with enough dedication/masochism and you can find diagrams of the vacuum systems online. some replacement kits involve hoses made of silicone or another synthetic material that doesn't decompose with time.
European W123s are likely to be less trouble-prone, not as many vacuum lines as they could come in lower specs and would not have had the smog hardware on US models.
>>28755394Immediately before the LS400 came out and handed Mercedes their ass. They never recovered from having to cost cut and reduce their engineering budgets massively just to compete.
>>28755394at le mans
>>28757417nah it was more because Eastern Europe became opened as a market in the 90s and they began pandering to Russian mob bosses and their tacky tastes
>>28757390My dad repaired a vintage 60s Sears floor fan a while ago, the original rubber grommets had turned to rocks so he replaced all of those.
Which brand has experienced the saddest decline: Alfa Romeo, Mercedes, or Mitsubishi?
>>28757518Volkswagen.>t. Have only owned volkswagens over the past 25 yearsSportwagen/Altrack was their last gasp at a great vehicle
>>28757518Mitsubishi and Alfa Romeo couldn't lose what they never had to begin with.
>>28757518It's gotta be the American giants through the 2000s and 2010s, right?Ford has basically given up on making cars. Chrysler is owned by a multinational investment firm. GM is doing ok I guess.
>>28757518defnitely mitsu. at least benz still makes amg models and the gt. evo and eclipse have been gone for a while they are totally irrelevant.
>>28757404occasionally you'd encounter them in other colors but about 70% of USDM models were beige
>>28757641*sound of Alan Parsons Project intensifies*
>>28757641From personal experience most of the M-B of that vintage I've seen IRL were in fact beige.
>USDM models of the W123 initially comprised the 230 (gas I4), 280E, 280C (gas I6), 240D (diesel I4), 300D, 300CD, and 300TD (diesel I5, turbocharged in 1981-85). The 230 was only offered in 1977-78. Motor Trend complimented the W123's superb construction and build quality, called its performance "average", and criticized the price and relatively sparse available options compared to American cars.[2]
>>28757808I think the 230 didn't sell very well which is why it was dropped in 2 years. All photos of 230s I can find are European models, there's almost none of the US version. Seems that about 70% of US model W123s were the 280E, 300D, or 300TD.
>>28757820nobody with Mercedes bucks was going to buy a four cylinder car
>>28757808>and criticized the price and relatively sparse available options compared to American carsyou could get all kinds of wacky options on domestics in the 70s so the sparse option list on M-B would have been off-putting
>>28757808the interiors were well ahead of domestic makes though; it looks like the 80s in here in 1977
>>28757845If you compare the Cadillac interiors from that year, very tacky and ghetto-looking. not for nothing did snobby rich people during the 70s defect to M-B in droves.
>>28757854Cadillac stopped having high quality interiors or construction quality after 70. M-B more than any other European manufacturer were Ameriboos and always admired American landyachts, and by the 70s it was apparent the student surpassed his teacher.
>>28757854Pandering to blacks and guidos always ends badly because they have horrible taste.
>>28757854that interior is literally an eyesore. some Cadillac interiors did look classier, but that porno lounge red is gross and i'm sure only appealed to black guys who have a pimp cane and a leopard skin hat.
>>28755394
Then again you could get a big block Cadillac or Lincoln in the 70s for a lot lower price than M-B and its much smaller engines, only the stratospherically priced W116 even offering a V8.
>>28757888point of information. the flagship 450SEL which was basically only affordable to Hollywood movie stars had a 6.9L V8, smaller than the 460 engine the family LTD station had back then.
>>28757896MSRP of the 450SEL in 1977 was $30,000. In today's money that would be $160,000. The top shelf Lincoln Mark V retailed for $13,000 which is a little under $70,000 in today's money.
I genuinely hope Merc can make a comeback. I’m so tired of BMW and Audi.
>>28755394Just look at this glorious pea green color
>>28757923
>>28755394It's a shame you legit can't find 123s in Europe under 5k anymore, they're nice cars and i love the styling, but prices have soared and i've seen some run of the mil ones hit 30kThere's really no reason not to just get a mid-tier 124, 126 or 140 instead
>>28757929There were more USDM W123s than European ones since Mercedes shipped at least 60% of their total production to North America back then.
>>28757981also too bad the US ones were generally worse cars than the Euro ones due to regulations and less choice of options/models
>>28757929>It's a shame you legit can't find 123s in Europe under 5k anymoreOne wonders if some of that isn't Americans importing them as they're preferable to the USDM models.
early 2000s
>>28755394>when did Mercedes peak?>inb4 1933-39
For me it's the 90s. Good NA V8 options with the M119 and M113, good diesel options, reliable 4 and 5 speeds. A reasonable amount of electronic crap, and any car still running today will have had its wiring harness replaced by now.>>28755491how'd it go for you and your car? always curious about how these old germans do against modern cars in a collision
>German automotive design atrophied following World War I. The disastrous economic state of the early 1920s meant that manufacturers lacked the funds to invest in new designs and were stuck peddling prewar tech such as side valve engines, separate gearboxes, and hand transmission brakes. These cars were solid and well-made, but had weak performance and generally looked like the dinosaurs they were. Most exports went to places like Russia, Scandinavia, and Latin America where the roads were poor.>After American cars became widely available in 1924 onward, the German industry mostly just cloned them, with a few unique features such as 4-speed transmissions. Nine different German manufacturers offered I8s in 1929, all of them embarrassingly obvious copies of American designs. Mercedes' "Nurburg" was said to prove the adage that "Packard knows how to build a Packard better than anyone else."
>The market for cars plummeted with the onset of the Great Depression. The 2-liter Stoewer, a very modest performer, cost 8500 RM, the I8 Audi 12,950 RM, and the PS Hansa for 14,800 RM. Clearly the times had to change. By 1932, the Hansa Six already sported a forked backbone frame with swing axle rear suspension. Stoewer and Adler had some cutting-edge FWD cars, Audi soon followed, and Mercedes' new mid-range sedans had all independent suspensions. By decade's end, all that remained of the pre-Depression generation was the Mercedes Nurburg, beloved of Nazi leaders and the exiled Kaiser in the Netherlands.
>>28757926that's pretty groovy actually
>>28758121Kangaroos team m119 manual conversion kit NOW
>Like the rest of German industry, Mercedes struggled to get back on their feet at war's end. Factories had to be restored from bomb damage and much of the work force was dead or injured. On the other hand, Mercedes was at an advantage due to their in-house bodies while competitors such as BMW and Ford of Germany bought theirs from Ambi whose Berlin plan had been destroyed by Allied bombing. Several manufactuers also lost their main plants when they ended up in the Soviet-occupied zone. Plans for new models conceived during the war included a V12 engine to replace the OHC I8 but this was quickly scrapped as economically unviable. Hence Mercedes cars would be powered by six cylinder engines until the company's first V8 was launched in 1963.>The first civilian M-B since 1939 (the W136) came off the line in 1947, but only a handful were built. However, demand for new M-B was such that many owners of prewar cars were getting them rebuilt with new bodies. With 6-cylinder engines as the top mills, Mercedes was at a competitive disadvantage against American and British luxury makes. The W186, launched in 1951, marked Mercedes' return to the super-luxury market. Despite the small engine, it was fuel injected and quite potent, and handled better than its flabby competitors. It proved popular with wealthy clientele who favored its conservative form and excellent engineering against the gaudy American luxury cars or the even gaudier, but mechanically crude British luxury cars. Most W186s were exported--Konrad Adenauer could only use so many and few of his countrymen could afford one.
>>28758185they also had to apologize and acknowledge their participation in arming the Nazi war machine and using slave labor (as if they had a choice anyway).
>>28758197as well as using the skins of dead Jews for seat leather, which is pretty creepy and gross
>>28758121M120 is also kinda cool - of course after wiring harness fix.Still passes a coin test though.
>>28757607Yes, they brutally butchered the American auto industry. >>28757808Ah, the simple beauty of a car with a clean, uncluttered design. No big, fat beltline, and large windows so you can fucking see outside!
>It's the Eisenhower years>Mercedes has no V8 or automatic transmission yet, just an overpriced manual I6>relying on Studebaker for US distribution>better not drive it through New York City or angry Holocaust survivors will yell and throw shit at your ride
>>28758345the W180 has been retroactively considered part of the S-Class family, but in the 50s it was M-B's mid-range car with the flagship being the W186.
>>28758351>>28758345These must have been a real niche item back then since M-B had no US branch of their own and a lot of people understandably would have objected to driving a German car.
>>28758353tbqh Mercedes only really took off in the 70s with Silent Generation/boomer customers and gave Cadillac its first actual rival in the US market since Packard's demise.
>>28758353Volkswagen always did well since US sales began in the early 50s but it was a cheap shitbox.
>>28758357>>28758353they picked up where Packard left off, with old money WASPs who found Cadillac too tacky
>>28758345the German design philosophy was tasteful looks and excellent engineering, as opposed to Americans desire to be as loud and tacky as possible
>>28758345Comes with Farfegnugen.
>>28757845Owner: CEO, movie star, surgeon, lawyer at top NYC law firm>>28757854Owner: The above's coke dealer
This is the peak.
>>28758397Until the 90s when they start pandering to Slavs and Arabs anyway.
>>28755394Pre-DaimlerChrysler. Their cars were 100% bulletproof. It’s not weird at all to see them hit over a million miles with the original engine, transmission, and everything else still going strong.
>>28755394G-Wagon 2025 model line.My ex-wife bought it for divorce winnings to drive her boyfriends son from our own house to school and then back home and seems to be extremely pleased with it.
>no C111MR gullwing supercar testbed for 3 rotor, 4 rotor, turbodiesel, and V8 engines. this is what happens when mercedes lets their engineers go wild. ironically 20 years later they were beat by a 4 rotor at le mans.
