What went wrong?
>fwd>hybrid>cvt>"sports car"
>>28762065- Engine too small even for turbo- Ridiculous pricing vs other econo boxes (Hyundai/Kia steal the crown for cheap but even a Corolla Hybrid is $6000 cheaper here in Canada vs a Civic Hybrid)
>>28762065Nothing from a business perspective, as far as I know.From an enthusiast perspective, a literally 15 (probably 18) year old Civic Si has as much horsepower as a new Si.While >>28762069 is trolling - FWD becomes an issue around 250 hp, which is what put a ceiling on Honda performance car. Yes, the CTR theoretically does 315 and puts it down on track, but in reality it's a limiter, and it couldn't do more even with all the tricks.
They never made a roadgoinf V5 RCV
>>28762065They started milking the reputation to price everything higher than competitors and rarely take risks. Toyota has been more interesting with less severe price hikes in recent years.
lazy, unwillingness to innovate
>>28762089This part isn't even close. Supra, GR86 - Honda literally has nothing. The Si and R aren't competitors to those two.
>>28762089>>28762101The only good enthusiasts car Toyota makes is the supra because it’s a bmw. Everything else like the 86 and Yaris is just of subpar quality. Honda is the only one of the jap brands innovating. It’s evident when everyone is now trying to make their own new nsx.
>>28762065They need to come out with a RWD car with a manual.
>>28762139I wonder if it was always like this in terms of all the desirable cars, even cheap ones on a waitlist with 5-15k markup.With that said, everyone puts KXXs into RWD and push them to 500hp, so it's weird that Honda doesn't just do it.
>>28762065
>>28762132innovating in what?their current lineup is pretty lame the only exception might be the civic type R it's cool i guess but still just a souped up regular NPC civic not even a coupe
>>28762132>Honda is the only one of the jap brands innovatingHonda fanboys (the weebs of cars) really are the most insufferable
>>28762069u forgot to add wet belt
>>28762132As someone who passed over the 86, I can't imagine how anyone can hate on it. It's literally the only car in its class, despite the shit interior - for 30k, holy shit it's nice (though I guess they are usually 36+ at dealers). Miata is niche as fuck despite being very similar. No other way to get into a RWD with some power in a new car.>>28762153This. CTR is alright, but it's nothing new. I guess they do R&D, but it's just less welds to make the car lighter, etc. General approach is super boring.
>>28762206There are rumors that the next gen Miata and 86 are being developed in collaboration between Mazda and Toyota. I'd guess this ends up in a shared platform with different body styling and the Miata as a convertible vs the 86 as a coupe.
>>28762228That actually makes way more sense than the Mazda-engine Supra thing.
>>28762065>>28762278
Turbo stuffMaking the civic cost as much as a Camry and in it's own awkward class of it's own. I cross shopped a civic against a fuckin maverick and the base model Maverick had so many random things the civic was missing (like rear seat usb ports), and the civic was more expensive.
>>28762065Nothing? It's still one of the smartest choice for poorfags since America stop making shitboxes.
raped by the (U)ltimate (D)riving (M)achine
>Pozzed its whole lineup early on with auto start/stop, 0.6L turbo, CVT-only>Refuses to use any engine bigger than the J35>$40,000 for a nu-Prelude
>>28762322Didn't Honda go through a period of time with some reliability issues? I remember reading about oil starvation in some of the civics for a period of time.Maybe that was overblown and maybe they've fixed it by now but I thought they took Honda down a peg.
>>28762065They stopped putting double wishbone in the front and back and instead put the shittiest auto transmissions known to man before switching to their CVTs. I'll never trust those bastards after over a decade of failure.
>>28762083this, the hp couldn't go up anymore due to traction, but the cars had to get heavier for safety. old lightweight hondas were magic. closest you could get for a while was the fit but now it's discontinued in the US. also their shitty fragile automatics and cvts they put in everything now.
>>28762065They fucked up their hybrid cars. From CR-Z to Prelude They never figured out how to build one correctly.
>>28762065(((Emissions)))
>>28763353What's fucked up is that the Civic hybrid hatch has a 0-60 in the low 6 seconds, so they can make a quick hybrid but for whatever reason it's not in the prelude. Maybe they'll add it in the mid cycle refresh, but it's probably over for the prelude.. rest in peace.
>>28762132you forgot about the new gtr toyota announcement
>>28762083It's not so much that a new and old si make the same power, but the new ones don't account for how fucking large and fat and gay and expensive they are. We need heritage series cars man this sucks.
>>28762065Their bikes are being made in Troonland.
>>28765931More than likely the same fucken system and the software or testing at the time was flawed. Or the battery had no charge... It's kind of stupid to 0-60 a hybrid, because the electric assistance and performance is massively different between 30% charge and 70% charge on the battery
>>28762065People used to buy a Honda if they wanted a vehicle that would last them 20+ years. Now like 90% of Hondas are leased. When that's the case they only have to make it reliable for 4 years plus a few for the sucker who buys it CPO. That pretty much goes for every new vehicle these days. Another issue is Honda's delusional customer base. The initial quality is so low but people keep buying it because "it's a Honda". At that point you can't blame them for not putting any effort into masking it good. Toyota is starting to go this direction too. People are willing to risk their engine grenading just because "it's a Toyota".
>>28766028>TroonlandThey are made in America?
>>28762065They realized they could easily sell to illegals and poor blacks so they followed Nissan's policies of making their cars as shitty and cheap as possible for the same prices. That and slapping CVTs into everything to make it seem like their cars are better for the environment and meet efficiency standards, along with tiny boosted engines so you have to replace them even faster.
>>28763353you forgot the gen 1 insight??? opinion discarded
Honda is an engine company that just makes cars on the side.In Europe they failed to react to stricter environmental laws and essentially quit the market in early 2010s for no clear reason.
>>28762065>What went wrong?The one guy that loved the company had the poor form of getting old and dying leaving the company to those who view it as just a job. Many such cases.
>>28762065they leaned too heavily on the semi-premium market and let their econo models get too expensive. i don't know why you'd ever buy a civic over a corolla in current year if cost is a meaningful consideration to you. the civic is not worth the extra sticker price.
>>28766997Well yeah maybe excluding the very first honda hybrid which came out more than 20 years ago
>>28762065imo things started going wrong around the 2008 era when they did several things>big bulbous design choices inside and out>interiors made of hardware plastic>centralized infotainment and molded radios>molding the exhaust manifold into the head on K series>earth dreams in generalmanagement mustve been smoking crackHonda has always been more "techy" than other manufacturers, but they pretty much abandoned what made Hondas uniquesuddenly they became compliance machines
>>28767361not only did they build the best hybrid of all time to this day, they did it on their first try. it's been downhill ever since. honda was really something else back then.
>>28762065CVT
>>28762065>Make line of cars known for being affordable and having a reliable engine>Throw out being affordable, replace good transmission with CVT effectively neutering the "reliable engine" part.Death of an icon.
