Why do American mechanics complain about German cars?Are German cars really that bad?
Simple minds long for simple machines.
>>28770074Because they are designed to last 4-5 years until the German wagie subsidized lease expires and they get a new one.While American trucks often make it 40+ years of service.America stopped making cars somewhere in 2005, and switched to rebranding Asian and Euro ones instead, but the pre 2005 ones are still on the road in great numbers. Shame.
>>28770079Is Trump going to fix this? Haven't been watching the news in a while.
>>28770080No, he isn't. He is going to let smaller and lighter foreign cars get assembled here, if the car companies choose to do so, but they probably won't, because they make more money on the current model and that's always been the principle obstacle to cheap light cars, not the rules that they blame.
>>28770079I thought Americans bought a new car every two years.In Europe, they stopped building good cars because they could just sell them for more in the US, so now everyone here wants to drive a Japanese car because they are reliable and they have high resale value.
>>28770074>Are German cars really that bad?it depends on the era.older ones (pre-2000) were awesome. the top models were overengineered af, but in a good way. expensive to maintain, but proportionally to their quality. more modern ones (2000-2010, maybe up to 2015 in some cases) lost a lot in quality and started being overengineered in worse ways, but they were still decent overall. they were harder to maintain than american cars, but not without cause.a german engine with dohc and vvt is way harder to maintain than a 'murican pushrod v8, but it also gives you higher rpms and more hp/displacement. also better mpg. so, its a tradeoff. you want 400hp instead of 300 from a v8? you want 30mpg instead of 20 too? well, you better learn how2vanos. and you better change the oil on time. and the bearings will need to be replaced at 150-200k. which all sounds pretty bad, but show me a contemporary 'murican car that's as classy and has the combination of comfort and performance that a e39 m5 has. fully modern german cars, post 2015, are a complete shitshow, avoid at all costs. they are exclusively lease machines. the complexity went way up, and they started being intentionally engineered to be impossible to maintain, especially without dealer tools/software. you lease them for 2-3 years, and then they're financially totaled. and they're not even worth the trouble, honestly. by the mid 10's, 'murican and jap cars had basically caught up in perf and perceived quality, so there's no reason to put up with this shit.
>>28770126We don't accept intelligent thoughtful comments here, only retarded euro slandering and jerking off our orange god.
Literally planned obsolescence >Timing components made to fail after lease/ warranty. Idc how many oil changes you do; the plastic guides and tensioners will fail.>Usually requires engine out/trans out/ drop the sub frame/ or front end off etc or a combo of such just for access>Then you need to buy one time use speciality tools because we couldn't just a normal hex bolt or any standard size>Get dinged with ten other "while in your in there jobs" because everything is a decade old, neglected and is gonna leak eventually All said and done, you no farther ahead between headaches, manhours and trying to keep money in your wallet wrenching on it vs just continuing lease payments on a new vehicle
>>28770074They make everything out of dogshit brittle plastic that breaks if you fart sideways next to it by the time the car is out of warranty, and bury everything underneath layers and layers of said shitty plastic so an easy job like a thermostat that would take half an hour on a car designed by sane people takes 3, and also you're fighting dogshit plastic the entire time trying not to break any of it. Also lug bolts fucking suck.
>>28770139and having to buy a special tool for almost every job that costs the same or more as what the job actually pays you, so with how infrequent working on g*rman shitheaps is it doesn't even make financial sense to do so as I might never make the money back on the tool unless I sign up for eternal suffering to go work at the stealership. why the fuck did audi make a rear brake setup that requires a stupid special tool to take the caliper bracket bolts off. fucking retards
>>28770126Had a 2011 135i. It didn't have a dipstick. This minor thing is a fractal of the bad design decisions made throughout the car. Absolutely unnecessary complexity with very little upside.When it wasn't having a BMW moment™ it was a decent enough car. Traded it in for a 2010 mustang GT and i have absolutely zero complaints.
never forgiving g*rmans for building the vw and phasing out the front engine beach buggy.
Image an economy where all you can buy is the fucking undersized Gasoline Lupo, the 1,6TDI passat isn't a real option, and the remaining is whatever passes for Kraut high end. Also the speed limit isn't high enough to warrant the extra maintenance needed to keep those high end engines running.
>>28770074>Are German cars really that bad?BMW N63
>>28770226>you vill be assimilated, ja
>>28770074Yeah, I've never met a German engineer that knew what he was doing.
>>28770074
Poor parts availability outside the dealer or waiting 1-2 days from worldpac. You need GOOD service info, no missing/dead links, etc. Tons of single use bolts, and special tools. Then the broke loser who bought the 10yo euro-turd screeches about how you're a scammer because it costs more in parts and more time in labor to work on their "luxury" car they bought for 25% of MSRP. They're not terrible to work on, it's just a hassle and the 3rd owner and beyond suck to do business with.
>>28770315It's fascinating how obsessed mutts are.
>>28770371germans are like this though. many americans are descendants of germans and act like this too
>>28770182>i bought some gay hairdressers car but now i'm super manly in my mustang hmmf >:)LOL
>>28770378I thought Americans came from the UK and Ireland.They don't speak German after all.
>>28770380post car.
>>28770383they don't anymore because of the world wars. they were forcibly assimilated.nevertheless >>28770226 this looks unnecessarily complex
>>28770392
>>28770371this
Audi timing chain.Also Germans are actually retarded because they can't even put the damn thing in the right place! They put em on the firewall!Kraut suckers are suckers, I have no pity for them as they are marks.
>>28770074all cars are bad in different ways. german cars are bad in very expensive to fix ways. its still not as bad as american cars that have wet oil belt systems though lmao. I'd rather have the shitty plastic coolant pipes in BMW than that bullshit because its easier to replace with metal parts.
>>28770371for noticing whats painfully obvious? And this shit is even worse when germans comment among themselves.
>>28770074Germany sounds pretty based, ngl.
>>28770074German cars are engineered to last exactly 500,000 km if you hit every service interval exactly. And Germany has no qualms about increasing the complexity of something threefold for a 4% increase in efficiency or performance. If that requires more maintenance, thn that's simply what you have to do. If it requires a proprietary tool that's only available at the dealership that's just what you have to do. And Germans are okay with this. Meanwhile other car brands understand that cars are owned by humans, not robots, and until the recent era were designed with at least a little bit of resilience and simplicity in the engineering. They also keep proprietary tools to a minimum because that's just lazy engineering or corporate greed nine times out of 10.My first and last experience with owning a German car is when a couple years ago I had a '99 E300 TD and nowhere on the car or in the owner's manual did it tell me the oil spec. They literally wanted me to go to the dealership to buy engine oil. Lord knows what retardation they're doing these days. And yes I had a window regulator go out during that time so you know I got the real German car experience lmao.
>>28770460>500k>German Omegakek, I stopped reading because outside of a small tiny tiny tiny handful of ancient German cars literally none of them will ever dream to hit that on an original engine or transmission. I'm convinced most of you kraut suckers enjoy having your wallet and time raped with no lube.
>>28770371that webm really hurt you
>>28770460>>28770535you're both talking out your assgerman cars will easily hit 500k, and more, the problem is that maintaining them past 100-150k is financially retarded. as soon as you reach the point where a modern german car starts needing intake port cleaning(thanks, DI), bearings(thanks, EU banning good bearing materials and mandating 0w20 oil), timing chain guides(thanks, plastic), vvt maintenance (thanks, mpg standards), etc etc, you're looking at 20k of labor and parts for a car that has 10k resale value. this is especially the case for the most modern ones that also have turbos that can go wrong ($$$) and make working in them 5x harder ($$$$$) and heat up the engine bay excessively (rip all the hoses and connectors too, $$$$$$$$).now, if you actually do all that maintenance, the engine will *happily* do another 100-150k for you. it just doesn't make financial sense to do it. unless you're a mechanic that specializes in german cars, and you already have all the tools and the manuals and a lift. if you are that person , you can spend a 4-5 weekends working on a 10-15k used bimmer/merc/audi and end up with a 500hp german v8 biturbo luxosedan for 15-20k (and 200 hours of unpaid labor).
>>28770560??? How are you going to say I'm talking out of my ass and then instantly agree with me that German cars require a large amount of autistic level maintenance to last? I feel like at this point the capchka just needs to be a reading comprehension check.
>>28770605well, you got a few things wrong>500kits 100-150k>increasing the complexity of something threefold for a 4% increase in efficiency or performanceits to increase sales because the car has to be thrown away> other car brandshonestly, they're all equally shit post 2015. the only modern cars that are reliable are EVs (they still have issues, just not game-over, 20k in engine maintenance sort of issues. a busted popping out electric door handle is way more tractable)> '99 E300 TD and nowhere on the car or in the owner's manual did it tell me the oil specthose were fine automobiles, million mile engines, you just failed to do a simple google search. (its 15w40, btw, by the manual, tho some users claim benefits from 10w40 or even 5w40)
>>28770226And here's a brand new Bronco. Your point?
>>28770074German cars were never designed to last long enough for the brokies onnthe secondhand market to not sink endless amounts of money into them.
tl;dr fries in the bag please
>>28770638I can look at that engine and tell you what each of those hoses does. Yes, there's a lot of them, but they're mostly all on top, not wrapped around the whole engine like >>28770226 that looks like Satan wrapped a Christmas present.
>>28770226
>>28770074>American sees Audi>American buys Audi>American does not properly maintain Audi>American cries>German buys Audi>German drives it half a million kilometers without any serious issue requiring expensive repairs>German laughsI'm sure this applies to other euro cars but this is 100% the case for Audi
>>28771093And mutts probably use some 0W-5 weight oil because their commie government tells so.
>>28770075“An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity, a physicist tries to make it simple, for an idiot anything the more complicated it is the more he will admire it, if you make something so clusterfucked he can't understand it he's gonna think you're a god cause you made it so complicated nobody can understand it. That's how they write journals in Academics, they try to make it so complicated people think you're a genius"
Its been awhile now, lets see if /o/ has stopped being a tribalistic shit-FIRST THREAD. fuck all of you poser faggots.
>>28770380why is Miles Edgeworth gay?
>>28771155>t: EV owner
>>28771163no, EVs are MORE complicated than gas engine cars you retard
>>28771165>t: elitist EV owner
>>28771163actually that's terry davis
>>28770084The principal obstacle to small shit boxes is that they're gay and the vast majority of people don't want them. It's really that simple.There is no conspiracy. It's not CAFE. It's not car manufacturers. It's the market's desires. People want bigger, roomier, more capable vehicles.
>>28771231>muh gay
>>28771235Yes. Faggot.
>>28770226i wonder if some turbo autist will still keep one of these things running 20 years later
>>28771242You've got to be kidding.In 20 years this will be a "look and don't touch" engine (because you'll break the plastic hoses).Besides the only car company I know that still produces original parts for its oldest models (on request) is Mercedes.
>>28770074A lot of their shit is retarded and complex because ????Prime example is VAG water pumps, instead of having a simple water pump driven by a drive belt or timing belt one of the pieces of shit they came up with this hideous monstrosity which isn't driven by either belt but driven by a seperate single belt on the opposite side of the engine and has the thermostat built into it and is ridiculously expensiveWhy?who fucking knows, and it of course always leaks at embarrassingly low kilometres and is a pain in the dick to replace
>>28771283oh yeah and this retarded fucking shithttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/d69wrVczUw4
>>28771279that's what i mean. maybe someone out there is maximo autismo that he'd go to the length to keep one of these monstrosities running
>>28770074Because Germans like to do shit like, oh you need to replace this one belt? Okay, time to pull the whole fucking engine. You can replace a belt on a Camry by taking a tire off.
>>28770226BMWs are the kind of cars that it actually makes sense to just yoink the engine out of them and put something less retarded in.
>>28770074I'd rather fucking shit in my hands and clap than ever work on a post-2000 German engine, they just went both-barrels retarded on their engine designs and making more and more shit to work on and come from the factories with fundamental design flaws that they never bother correcting.
>>28771379I think something has culturally shifted in German engineering/academia, because they're strait goober retards over there now. I personally know a team of guys from America who have to fly to Germany every single year and teach the Germans how to run German trains, because Germans don't understand it anymore.
>>28771391>strait>straightGoddamn phone
>>28771391Probably because all the good engineers/academics either retired or got pushed out of their companies and the new blood are either brownoid replacements that lied on their resume well enough or retards that have no actual talent, passion or work ethic and are just there to collect a paycheck, to hell with the consequences of their actions and inactions.
How do you maintain a blower motor/tensioner/vaccuum line/sensor thats buried deep between the engine and the firewall? Just give us some skodas and stop pretending you produce anything higher quality than the crap in the Aldi houseware section
>>28770126>the bearings will need to be replaced at 150-200kyou will kill your motor if you wait that long
>>28771279It's not like you need to replace them with OEM BMW hoses, it's just some rubber tube
>>28770560>muh resale valueopinion disregarded
>>28771283Wouldn't this mean that if your accessory/timing belt fails it won't take your water pump with it and makes it slightly more likely that your engine survives?
>>28771888it depends on the engine, but yea, in the worst case, it can be much shorter. iirc for a s65 or s85, you wanna replace them at 50/60k or something like that. ofc, that's assuming you're running maintenance as specced in the manual, which, if you know what you're doing, you'll know better than that. you'll be doing oil changes every 5k miles instead of the 8 or 10k the manual says, and you'll be running zddp additives too, and you'll get much better longevity out of your bearings. and when the time comes to replace them, you'll get aftermarket ones that have more clearance and will not fail again.
>>28770638the fuck is all of that even fori thoguht it was a 2.7 turbo v6
>>28770074>Why do American mechanics complain about German cars?Germans love making things overly complicated in the name of clever engineering. It works great when you put it together at the factory and its probably powerful and efficient; but God help you if it ever brakes.
>>28772330>brakesbreaks.
>>28770074My BMW is a fucking horror, an oil pan gasket was a 20 hour job, you have to remove basically the entire fucking front suspension. We did not bomb those faggots enough, they needed to be wiped out completely.
>>28772330>powerful and efficientLol, it's not either of those things. An American V8 shits all over any German turd in any metric you can think up.
>>28772347Yeah, that's the funny part. People just assume pushrods aren't efficient because why would else all these convoluted and expensive designs exist? But then an LS makes the same or more power while burning about the same quantity of fuel, while using lower compression to further aid longevity and when you factor in the cost difference not having to buy premium it's not even a contest. Plus in my experience bigger motors can run happily at lower revs and beat EPA estimates because of it. There are reasons LSes get swapped everywhere and I don't hear much about Audi 4.0 powered things that aren't Volkswagens.
>>28772436Nothing can hang with a US V8, anyone can make 1,000 hp with a Chevy now.A 500 hp German turd is going to put the crank on the ground.
>>28770074They can't get the parts.When they do, it's also a hassle to install.
The only good German manufacturer in the past decade has been Opel
>>28772673
>>28772673Open isnt even German
>>28772673Opel, Skoda, Seat etc. are just a reskinned Volkswagen
>>28771905Just replace your accessory belt every 60k miles, then? All it takes is turning the tensioner and pushing the belt on, not exactly replacing the transmission.
>>28770618Sorry I meant to specify 500,000 km.>only reliable modern cars are electricNot quite. >those were fine automobilesLOL no they weren't. They were pretty fucking bad actually. The engine was fairly good but the rest of the car does not hold up. It's also built in the dumbest fucking way. You have to drop either the differential or the subframe if you want to pull the diff cover off and change the fluid. As it stands they're right up against each other and I really couldn't be arsed to figure out what I had to do because that's just awful fucking design. Same goes for the radiator. In an American car, you generally just unscrew like four bolts, pull the top radiator support off, and pop off the hoses, and the radiator lifts out. But such straightforward design is abhorrent in Deutschland. You had to do something like pull off one cover, pull off a separate cover, remove some wiring loom hold downs, remove the banjo bolts on the integrated transmission cooler, remove half of the air intake... the entire car was doing things needlessly different and overcomplicated with no regard to anything breaking or the idea of a human fixing it. So I got away from it despite it having one of the best engines Mercedes ever made. And I'm not retarded, I figured out what oil it takes. But you're retarded for not seeing the issue of not even the owner's manual telling you. It's sending a message that Mercedes would rather you fuck off and die than maintain the car yourself. This isn't exclusive to Mercedes or luxury cars either. I want you to get on Google right now and look up the BMW r1200gs oil cap. And I want you to tell me why that's better for the consumer than the raised blade that every Japanese bike uses.FUCK German engineering.
>>28770074Because German cars are expensive so they expect a higher level of quality. It isn't unreasonable, but there is also quite a lot of nationalistic seething undercurrent in there too.
>>28770080lol>>28770088Boomers did this, not because there was anything wrong with the car, but just to make sure Mr. Shekelberg gets their money as interest payment, not their children as inheritance.
>>28770074>Are German cars really that bad?Not all of them, but I've found over the years that many boomer American mechanics have an irrational fear of them. Places won't want to do oil changes on something like a BMW for instance, as if there's anything different other than any other car. There was an old boomer-owned A/C repair shop some years back that was scared to even hook a set of gauges to an early-'00s BMW, as if there's anything different at all from any other car.Ironically, if you go to mechanics deep in the ghetto that barely speak English if at all, they always have the computer and scanner to talk to the nu-cars and you'll see their lot absolutely filled with all the Audis/BMWs/Mercedes that the boomers are scared to touch. Funny enough, they'll fix them for cheaper than what the "book hour" boomer mechanic charges for work on a Ford or Honda, too.
>>28772330I was genuinely thinking about getting an Audi V6 until I saw that picture. Jesus christ
>>28772969German car is a huge status symbol for browns. This makes sense.They also just pirate dealer software and run that, boomers would never dare to do such thing.
>>28770075fippybippy
>>28772774Opel is notit's worse
>>28770126>by the mid 10's, 'murican and jap cars had basically caught up in perf and perceived qualityWhat the fuck are you talking about? Mid-2010s american cars are all shit with the build quality of lego.
>>28770126>and you better change the oil on time. and the bearings will need to be replaced at 150-200kI agree with everything else you've said that's specific to euro but I really got ask what region of car that doing this in isn't just good practice or mandatory for? Older Japanese cars might be the only ones to get away with that.
>>28770638Modern engineering for you. Plastic spaghetti.
>>28770074Expensive, expensive to maintain. It's easier to just buy a Toyota or Honda. Americans also drive a lot more.
>>28773252imo the difference isn't as big as all that. like, yes, the golf might have had better perceived quality than a comparable price american car, but the american car was also much more spacious. plus, have you seen what happens to all those fancy rubberized buttons after 5 years of daily use? they don't call it *perceived* quality for nothing.we can argue about the exact date when the american auto industry managed to europeanize their interiors, but i don't see the point. it happened at some point. american cars are no longer as they were in the 90s and early 00s, when dodge sold you a $100k v10 viper with the interior plastics from a 20k commuter.i will concede that the americans never had anything that was as well made as an s-class/7 series/a8 though. im talking up to mid 2010s era here, nowadays even those flagships suck ass.the americans went in a different direction, namely fuckyuge SUVs, as the ultimate expression of luxury. size, not fancy leather and soft plastic.>>28773256>but I really got ask what region of car that doing this in isn't just good practice or mandatory for?ofc its good practice for other cars too, but its a difference in consequences. if you don't change oil frequently in an american or jap car, you'll get some varnishing and sludge buildup, and after a long time, you might actually see serious problems. try that shit on a bmw tho, and you'll get spun bearings in no time. >Older Japanese cars might be the only ones to get away with that.american pushrod v8s too. they're incredibly resilient to abuse, just look at all those "will it run after 368 years abandoned in the bottom of the ocean" vids on youtube.
>>28770080Trump is too busy trying to open markets for American cars not realizing that nobody outside of North America wants a Chevy Trax.
>>28771231Burgers are too fucking obese for small cars. They smell like farts, sweat from the their armpits and body folds, and are browner than gypsies. That's why they love their oversized cars.
>>28770074Depends on the vintage and the maker. M-B of the 70's were quite good, while Audis were basically biodegradeable. Old VW's had some pretty fucking awful wiring and brakes, but got better.Otherwise they're about like any other machine. Maybe stuff like needing a special offset crowsfoot for adjusting the valve lash on a M180 benz engine might rub some the wrong way, but if you work on enough of them to need that too, they aren't that expensive.
>>28773617They literally do, THOUGH
>>28771905If your timing belt fails your engine either won't run or will straight up die, water pump would be the least of the worriesIf your drive belt dies your alternator won't charge and you won't be able to drive very far anyway, and you'll notice the belts broken before it overheats because your power steering (if your car has it) won't work. But thats easily avoided by doing basic maintenance on time anyway
>>28770079When ever someone says "lease", "down payment", "note", "premium", "monthly" or "finance" I always see an American trying to justify why debt is good.
>>28770132Totally fine with this considering how badly euros ruined every other board
>>28770699"Borg? Sounds Swedish."
>>28770074>Are German cars really that bad?Yes, they are unnecessarily a clusterfuck to deal with and you will certainly almost always require a manufacturer specific tool that you will never, ever fucking use again and I can go on about the gatekept diagnostics but above all it's the customer that is a cheap son of a bitch and expects you to work on their budget as if the car is some 90's Corolla.
>>28774816>but above all it's the customer that is a cheap son of a bitch and expects you to work on their budget as if the car is some 90's Corolla.one can equally complain about scummy dealers and mechanics overcharging for parts(exact same part costs 5x if you order the "audi" version instead of the "skoda" version) and labor("oh, change the sparkplugs? man, that'll be at least 2 hours of work, lol"), and using the parts cannon on our dime before even attempting a proper diagnosis. which they likely would fail at, since they have been underpaying their mechanics so hard that the decent ones all quit and started youtube channels, lol.the whole system is fucked, and i strongly urge every anon who isn't capable of wrenching (and that's not just a skill issue, you also need the space and the tools and the time to do it) to altogether avoid ICEs, especially modern ones, double especially german ones.just buy a tesla, worst thing that can happen is some interior trim getting loose or a electric door handle needing replacement. way better problems to have than a dead engine, or one that needs 5k to be repaired. on the flipside tho, if you do have the knowledge and the space and the tools to be your own mechanic, there's some pretty great deals to be had out there. all those german cars that lose 90% of their value after 10 years are still awesome when they're actually running properly. if you don't mind working on them yourself and spending time figuring out what they need and how to do it on a budget, you can get some truly awesome cars for very cheap.
>>28774177"car note" is 100% bonglishno American would say that
>>28774841>underpaying their mechanics so hardIt's bad. Shops expect you to have the tools, diagnostic software to work on all cars, knowledge, continue to invest on tools and software updates, and have the gratitude to be underpaid after being raped by the tool truck guy that stalks you every week. Bottom line is, all these costs fall down to the consumer and everyone expects you to work on their budget which is a couple hundred.>But I found the same part on Amazon and its new!Not about to warranty your cheap china part and get married to your car because you were too tight to get the OEM part.>But what about the GOOD aftermarket parts?I've had customers bring me $50 head studs for their 6.0 Diesel that were a knock off version of ARP studs that are like $500 and guess what happened when we were installing the first stud following the torque sequence. Never again.
>>28774841Nice try, Tesla shill.
>>28774894if it makes you feel better, feel free to sub tesla for any other EV of your choosing, tho i honestly can't see any good reason to do that, especially if you're buying used on a budget. no other brand has the used market that tesla has. ofc, you can find used EVs from other brands too, but most of them are going to be utter shit compared to a model 3/y of similar vintage. other brands only got their ev shit together in the last couple of years, and even now, their software and efficiency is not really up to par. a 2020 model 3/y is still a very good daily and will still get you 300 miles of range and decent charging speeds, and i honestly can't name another 2020 EV that can do that.but yes, any EV, if you like. anyway, the crux of my argument is that between modern cars becoming increasingly complex and thus more prone to breakage and harder/more expensive to maintain, and the entire ecosystem of scummy dealers/mechanics and clueless owners who fail to properly maintain their cars (or, don't care to, since they're just leasing), buying an ICE, whether used or new, is pretty retarded.on the EV side, you don't really have to worry about the drivetrain, since its practically bulletproof, nor about the previous maintenance history, since there isn't any of that to begin with. the worst that can happen is that you might need to refresh brakes and suspension components, which isn't a big deal compared to worrying about your engine.
>>28774913>Didn't deny being a Tesla shillHang yourself. Elon has a colony of ants waiting to take your place.
>>28774964fuck elon and every single subhuman from the subcontinent.ill still recommend tesla's tho, since i think they're very good options for many reasons explained above.oh, and fuck you, nigger, for not even trying to actually address any of my argument. i bet you're brown, or worse, a leftist.
