This doesn't look goodI cut the oil filter open and there were no metal chunks or sparkles though. This was the first oil change after installing the magnetic plug so it could have been in the oil pan for quite a while perhaps? It doesn't look like a bearing or anything I recognize, it seems like you could piece them together and it would be some sort of circle, but chamfered on the inside edge. No knocking sounds either.Sending this oil sample to blackstone, but any ideas
>>28791540wanna start off by saying i'm not a mechanic, i'm just some retard engineering student but i've done a few jobs.you might be fucked but it sounds like the car still runs.>It doesn't look like a bearing or anything I recognizeI don't think you can really say what this is at all with so little. It could be part of a rod, a piston, a bearing, it could be from the block itself. Sample size is too small. It's magnetic so it isn't aluminum. Not sure if cutting open the filter would yield anything either.Best case scenario it's some kind of outside contaminant that slipped into the oil/head while you were doing something else, but that seems really unlikely imo. Worst case scenario you threw a rod or chipped something and it's either already severely broken or waiting to blow up. If something blew up then there could be damage to the block as well.Definitely get the oil tested and I probably wouldn't drive it unless you have to. It could be fucked somehow and about to permanently grenade itself.The only real way to know what went wrong is to take the engine apart, preferably outside the car, and analyze everything. I mean if the oil comes back perfectly clean and the oil was in there for a while...then idk. The fact that the engine still runs is a good sign.
You have to reassemble it like a puzzle.>Cotter pin spottedI cannot think of a single thing inside of an engine that uses that.
>>28791540Looks like something with teeth (gear?) broke off a piece.
what kind of enginepost a picture of the pieces laying on a rag or something
>>28791540Looks like chinesium pot metal.
>>28791540Eh, fuc it anon.Change the oil and send it.
>>28791626It's a 09 Honda fit, L15A7 with 140k>>28791572Yeah it looks very strange, I have no idea what part it could be. Some of it looks like it pieces together some of it seems random
Change the oil and forget about it
>>28791654hm, i agree with >>28791611 - try to reassemble the pieces. i bet a few if not all will fit together.
>>28791654>>28791656That round piece has to be part of a spring but there shouldn't be any springs in the bottom end or even the timing chain setup. Broken timing chain guide? I'd pull the valve cover and/or oil pan to be sure. A timing failure on an interference engine is game over.
>>28791672Broken valve spring/seat maybe?
>>28791680Seems highly unlikely the broken pieces would bounce all the way across the head and down into the timing cover. A broken valve seat would have killed the engine ages ago.
maybe a valve spring partially broke?
>>28791656I bet part of the timing chain guides + tensioner broke.A broken valve spring isn't something you could ignore.Maybe do 1,000mile oil changes for a few months and keep checking.
>>28791716Timing chain and components are completely separate from the oil pan so I don't think it could be anything like that
>>28791722No they're not separate. Anything behind the timing cover has a straight shot into the oil pan.
>>28791654>>28791656Cam follower
>>28791654>>28791656They arent showing up very well, could you maybe color them with a gold spraycan, and put them on a dark background or something?
>>28791540oil pump inner rotor. Why you haven't had any other issues. Also the only thing I can think of with that kind of shape. Impossible for this to be anything from the top end and make its way down. Your engine will work just fine with an oil pump rotor with a casting imperfection.
>>28791752>Impossible for this to be anything from the top end and make its way down.Nowrench moron.Opinion discarded.
>>28791722>Timing chain and components are completely separateI don't know of any engine where that is true anon.If it gets oil, it's all connected.
>>28791729>>28791762Oh shit yeah I'm dumb, maybe that's a timing belt thing I'm thinking of? I didn't remember my civics timing belt being connected to the oil panAnyways, I should pull my chain cover and see if anything looks out of place I suppose? Ive never been in there before because it's got a chain and those last forever, but anything severe should be noticable I hope
>>28791780It would probably be a lot easier to pull the valve cover and stick an endoscope down the timing cover. Stick it up the oil pan drain hole while you're at it. I bet there's more plastic and metal shrapnel in there.
>>28791780Belts are not wet, unless you’re that one retarded ford design, so yes it would be separate. Chains ARE wet and are connected.
>>28791752The debris has a cotter pin stick in it. Do some oil pumps use those?
OP needs to flush some diesel down it to wash it out. I bet there are chunks still being held up by some carbon gunk in the pan.
If I worked at a lube shop I'd keep random little bits of scrap around to drop into peoples oil pans.
>>28791757He said the car runs fine. If it were a cam follower his filter wouldn't be clean, and he'd have valvetrain noise. If it were the chain you'd hear rattling, get fine shavings in filter. If it were a valve spring, retainer, or keeper you'd get immediate compression loss or misfires. The common trend around all of these is that any top end issue would have active wear that would show in filter or oils, clearly visible. The lowest component that large with that kind of geometry that wouldn't cause chaos on the way down, is the pump rotor. You're a wrenchlet nigger.
>>28791540Get rid of the magnet, it's just causing you unnecessary worry.
>>28791941#1)If it was the pump rotor it would be on the inside of the pickup screen and not make it into the pan.#2)It would have gotten sucked into the pump and seized it.Youre a nowrench retard.Its from a cam follower.Its not a cotter pin, its a c-clip for the roller bearing.The tick is subtle and OP hasnt noticed it yet.
>>28791954C-clip mounting surface.
>>28791991I think it's a spring and the disc that goes on top of a spring.Either way if this is real and not some elaborate game by the OP then he is fucked.
>>28792293The photos are deceiving but its too small to be a valve spring.
>>28791540Try piecing them together.Jack the car up so that the drain plug is at the bottom, let it sit like that for a bit.Remove the drain plug again and see if more pieces showed up.Let us know what Blackstone says
Remove the valve cover op.
>>28792293>>28792378It's 10 degrees but I'll see what I can do
>>28792572Hurry the fuck up.Its like 10 bolts.
>>28791954That is not an L15 rocker, nor does it even look close to one, but I do agree that it's probably part of the rocker and wire clip seen here.
>>28792660Hold on, are those manually adjustable valves in a modern car?
>>28791654>>28791656It does kind of look like the top of a L15A7 valve spring, but IDK how you could be able to drive on it and not hear anything. Have you listened closely to the engine idling? It's a bitch to get to but I'd say you should look under the valve cover.
>>28792666yeah Honda has always used that kind of setup. At least it's not a shim and bucket deal.
>>28792669Too small to be part of a valve spring. If it's the part of the rocker visible here >>28792660 it won't be visible with the valve cover removed and will require further disassembly.
>>28792628Motherfucker he has to take the wipers, plastic cowl, wiper actuators, top intake manifold, throttle body, battery, and air filter off just to get to the valve cover.
>>28792628It's a lot more than that unfortunately
>>28792660Pic was a random, theyre all designed the same.>>28792669If it was a valve spring the valve would have dropped and seized the engine.Even if the retainer was still intact, a broken spring wouldnt have the tension to stay seated on the retainer.
>>28792680first time takes a while but it's not too bad. just need to remove the battery, intake, and upper intake manifold. stay organized and adjust valves while you're in there if you can since it's already apart (use cold clearance specs)
>>28792704and it's a fit so you need to remove the cowl and wipers to do almost anything on the engine but you probably already knew that lol
>>28792704Almost there
>>28792671Huh, weird, thought a car that new would have hydraulic lifters
All the springs appear to be intact
Timing chain tension seems good, so probably not related to that?
not OP. Would a cheap OBD reader help diagnose this? Is it possible a sensor is reading strangely, but not enough to trip a check engine light? >>28792745Can you take a pic of the round piece next to one of the valve springs to show the scale?
>>28792751Seems pretty small in comparison
>>28792758It looks about the size of the smaller springs here >>28792744Try shaking them with a screwdriver to see if any are loose.
Shrapnel vaguely peices back together. Anyone recognize this chamfered disc with tiny triangles around it?
>>28792741Calling it. >>28791922
>>28792765Springs all feel pretty tight
>>28792768Got a bore scope?Drop it down the oil dipstick tube or into the drain plug.I highly doubt something from the valve train got to the bottom oil pan without causing further damage.Also get a straight rod and listen to the engine run.
>>28792741>>28792744Check for glitter build up in the corners
Also pull the vtec solenoid, there is a metal screen that is first in line to capture debris in oil
>>28792829Not seeing any glitter anywhere>>28792839Ngl idk where that is but it's getting late so I'm gonna put her back together and get my oil sample to USPS on Monday and hopes it's fine
what a fuckin mystery
>>28792863Check the drain plug for new debris
>>28792768Dude im telling you, its the cam follower (rocker).Ones broken but only partially so its still "there".If you rotate that thing around and check each follower when that cylinder is at TDC youll find one thats a little bit loser.
You say it runs fine.You say there is no additional noises.The car is old.Could it be that something broke in the past, got repaired and all of the debris just didn't get removed because it was stuck in some crevice hidden from sight?
>>28792660This isnt the same rocker as>>28792744
>>28792922This is what I was getting at earlier by saying check the springs. One is probably working fine, but missing a big chunk.
>>28792922If this pig makes it till summer when wrenching becomes bearable again I'll: drop the oil pan, inspect the bottom end, take the rocker assembly apart, maybe get new valve springs, and change the timing chain/tensioner assembly just to be safeI just found where I saved my Honda service manual, though I still don't see anything in the part diagrams that looks exaclyy like what I found. I do think the return spring in picrel is maybe pretty close to the spring fragment I found, but maybe it is also part of one of the lost motion springs.I've never taken a rocker assembly apart or changed valve springs but yolo
>>28793544Dude you have a serious issue and if you find that broken piece now you can save that engine. If you continue running it youll have a catastrophic failure.Its not just about saving yourself money in the future- imagine being on the freeway in heavy traffic doing 75 and your engine seizes and now youre stuck in the middle lane.
>>28793701It'll be fine, just button it up and send it OP, it's japanese after all and japanese cars never break. See you next summer.
>>28793701lol, beta
>>28793701Either it'll be fine or it won't, at least it's not bearing material, so it probably won't result in a hole through the block, maybe just a valve or 2 shot out of the exhaust at worst. I just don't have the time to tear into things more right now. Come summer I'll have time to tear into the head and bottom, or swap a new engine in if it does blow by then. It's a cheap engine. They go for 3-600 bucks
>>28793836naturally aspirated L15s are cheap because they're bulletproof. wtf did you do to this car?
>>28791540is it a subaru? looks like peices of piston skirt to me. i've seen a turbo baja where the skirts were like, disintegrating but the engine still somehow ran pretty good and made normal boost, just burned oil and rattled when cold (but not even enough to be particularly concerning on it's own) It originally got town down for just a ring job, ended up throwing some nippon pistons and sending her back on the road in like 2019, saw it driving a couple months ago
>>28793839Idk how the first 110k of its life were, but the last 30k have been fine. I'm not convinced that stuff hasn't just been sitting in the oil pan for years and only got found because I just switched to a magnetic plug. I literally can't find anything in the shop manual that has a dime sized ring/disc with a chamfered outer edge like that. It's not a piston ring, bearing, or anything else immediately concerning and so I will gamble that the 3-600$ engine will last at least another 6 months till I have time rather than pay a shop 2-3k to tear into it and figure it out. If it blows up before then I will make another thread with the same op image as this
>>28793827Retard.
>>28791540Borescope that bitch anon.I've been using this cheap Amazon one.They work fine for the price.
any upadates op?
>>28795488OP died from shrapnel wounds when his engine exploded.
>>28795488car made a 500 mile round trip drive yesterday just fine, no issues. its going to a dealer for a diagnosis later this week. mainly to have them look at the shrapnel and tell me what exactly it is from, if they cant tell me what part its from (and show me an example from the parts department), it probably wasnt meant to be in there to begin with and im not going to sink money into them playing guess and check. oil sample is in the mail, now its a waiting game for the results to see if theres any indicator of bearing wear or what have you. this thread will prob fall off before i have any more news but ill make a new one if anything juicy comes up
>>28791899I don't think that's a cotter pin. I looks like something actually shaved a sliver of metal off a bearing or a rod edge - this thing's running on a prayer.
>>28795864>worrying about bearing wear when there's shrapnel in your oil panThat's like bleeding to death and worrying about something stuck in your teeth.
OP's biggest mistake is finding it. The superposition is collapsed and the engine is now on death's door.
>>28795898Yup that's how free will and multiple universe theory works.
>>28791540>>28792768cam follower, or Honda calls it "motion lost". Its the smaller spring. This >>28792922 anon is right
>>28792744>L15A7The cam was off before, notice the screws and the seal in front. I bet those are remnants from an earlier repair, otherwise you would have noticed a broken spring.
>>28791757You genuinely believe its a valve spring? Car would have been running like dog shit if at all. Literal nowrench.
>>28796026>>28796243Hugely helpful, thanks anons
>>28796250No.I was saying its part of a rocker but>>28796026Is looking like a match.The tappet is shattered like I traced.
>>28796310I think you're right, but, the real question is whether or not the part had already been replaced. OP did say that this is the first oil change since he added the magnetic plug. It seems likely to me that this piece got replaced years ago and this debris has been in the oil pan all that time.
>>28796314Quite possible.Personally I would have not ran the engine until I positively identified the part and verified that it wasnt from any currently installed components.I was trying to examine OPs pic of the motion loss springs but theyre about as focused as I am at the strip club after 10 shots.But I do believe they would no longer be in place at all with that type of damage or it would have been extremely obvious when OP inspected it so im leaning towards OP is gtg.
>>28796310>Is looking like a match.>>28796314its entirely possible that it was damaged in the past and they have since replaced the head or the valvetrain parts entirely. Then was too lazy to clean up the debris in the pan due to time or cost constraints. Since you did add a magnetic plug recently, you may have not known. It could be a non-issue if everything is as it seems and runs fine. They just didn't clean up the old damage. But I would double check the valvetrain components.
>>28796354I also took this before I closed it back up, they look alright here
>>28796558is it me or does the far leftmost motion spring look a little bit more sunken in than the others?
>>28796586It's compressed, retard, of course it looks sunken in.
>>28796592relax bud, not everyone has taken one of these apart before. I don't even remember what that spring attaches to off the top of my head and I've adjusted valves on these before.
>>28796586>>28796592Yeah it's just compressed because of the cycle or whatever you call it, that the engine was in
>>28796586Its difficult to tell but it appears that far left is in a slightly different orientation so the spring end looks different.But it appears to have the tappet underneath it.
