We finally have a commercial solid-state battery. Pity it's only available in some overpriced electric motorcycle.
>>28795113What are the specs in comparison with LiFePO4? Just because it's solid state doesn't mean it's good. New flagship phones are now shipping with silicon-carbon batteries that seem promising too, like they're doubling the capacity per volume.
>>28795113It will take until 2028 until solid state is at such a level of mass market refinement that it will start to make headwaves.
>>28795130>What are the specs in comparison with LiFePO4? According to the manufacturer, "400 Wh/kg of energy density", "a design life of up to 100,000 cycles", "at –30°C, the battery retains over 99% of its capacity, and when heated to temperatures exceeding 100°C, it continues to retain over 99% capacity with no signs of ignition or degradation". Some pretty lofty claims.
>>28795113You see new technologies in overpriced niche products all the time. It's market research.They're gauging consumer demand.They're also setting some other bastard beta test the thing.Limited release, they think they can handle a few lawsuits but not a class action.
Batteries will always be a stupid idea
>>28795196Every car on this planet relies on a battery to start
>>28795262*most
>>28795262don't be stupid. you know what he's talking about.
>>28795134>"400 Wh/kg of energy density"Its most likely correct, but that is without packaging. Or inconvenient truths such as yield, which limit uniformity and end size.
>>28795134Honestly idgaf what the manufacturer says and will wait for third party reviews
>>28795271Most cars sold the past five years have a battery and electric motor in it. I hate hybrids more than BEV. Tranny driveline.
>>28795510Most cars ever sold 'have a battery and electric motor' in it. You're being disingenuous.
>>28795510well my old land yacht has a battery and a heater blower motor i guess
I'll hold my breath until it actually exists and then wait for one brave schmuck to tear it apart.
>>28795134So 10+ years of development and they've only doubled the capacity of a LiFePO4? That's kind of fucking short of the 40,000 Wh/kg we would need for batteries to be truly comparable to ICE's. I'm assuming they also can't do the 1000C C-rates we would need as well. Can you EVfags not see how fucking far away we are from relevant EV's?
LOL, anyone want to buy a $35,000 bike?>https://insideevs.com/news/783463/first-solid-state-ev-sold-in-the-us/
>>28795853>185 miles of real world range on the top of the line model>still takes over 5 minutes to rechargelol. Still hopeless. Just 2 more years right lol?
>>28795787>40,000wh/kgWe don't need the energy density of fuel for batteries to be useful lmao. 1000/kg would make just about everything viable. The utility comes from the batterys having a physical permanence, rechargable, the biggest benefit of solid state batts is the massive leap in cycle lifespan.For me a tank of gas requires making transporting pumping and burning 100 pounds of fuel. 2600lbs of material a year.A 100kg (220lb) battery with 100kwh and 5,000 (80% DoD) cycles is a game changer. That's a 2 million mile battery in a 3500lb car that can go 400+ real miles per charge. Me personally, I'll be excited to see solid state batts get down into RC plane sizes. Hopefully within the next 10 years or 5.4.5v cells and 4 watt hour for a 10-12 gram pack would make all the cheap small planes have 10 minutes of full throttle performance or 20+ minute crusing around flight times.It would completely change RC hobbies the same way li-ion improved over nimh/nicad.
>>28795861Given that Energica models only had something like 100 miles of range on the largest battery around 3 years ago, I'd say an 85% improvement isn't bad.
>>28795861If you're on a motorcycle, why would you not do a 10 minute rest after driving nearly 200 miles? The issue is not charging time but the actual costs of this solid state battery. That bike costs more than some brand new EVs.
>>28795134If this shit was all true it would make EVs actually viable. A car with a solid state battery thay worked at 99 percent in those cold temps and a 100k charge lifespan , assuming comparative pricing, would make me a buyer and I think EVs are gay. Sounds too good to be true.
>>28796024>wholesome RC blogpostgood shit nigga
>>28796088What's with you fat fuck EVfags and always wanting to hang out at the gas station? Why would I want around with a bunch of lowlives when I can fill the tank in under 30 seconds and go rest at some scenic viewpoint with no degenerates?
>>28796894its 5 minutes retard
>>287971455 minutes for what? Using the glory hole? It's less than 30 seconds to fill a jerry can or a motorcycle sized fuel tank.
>Source: Trust Me Bro Inc.
>>28796894Why are you projecting? If anything it's slim people that prefer taking breaks as fatsos don't want to stand up.
>>28795296>Its most likely correct, but that is without packaging. Depending on packaging and cooling solution, final battery gravimetric density is around 65 to 70% of raw cell density. So for a raw cell density of 400 Wh/kg, final package density would be between 260 and 280 Wh/kg.
>>28795787>100k cycles>99% of charge at -30>Cheaper than lionForget cars even if cycled twice daily this thing would not hit cycle limits in a hundred years and it wouldn't need thermal management and other babying. It would solve renewable energy storage overnight. Even for your house you could keep adding them over time like it's a family heirloom your grandson can still use it. Yeah no, sounds like bullshit.
>>28797641That is assuming this has similar limitations such as lithium where only the terminals are good points to conduct heat, But yes, packaging is going to cost Wh/kG, even if all its doing is adding electrical insulation and vibration decoupling. The bigger question, are if these are good enough to be ran RAW with passive cooling, and seeing if they still don't just ignite from thermal stress.Or if it has issues like HDDs where vibration causes longterm stress, which eventually buckle something.
>>28797732Correct, which is why this has seen satellite usage occasionally. Just with handcrafting with really bad yields , and not industrial mass production.
>>28796088>rest after drivingYou retarded EV cultists aren't doing yourselves any favors with this dogshit "argument".
>>28797751The advantage of higher density is that it reduces the impact of packaging and cooling. A 400 Wh/kg cell would have, after packaging, the same energy density a standard mid-range NMC does when raw.
>>28795113This is going to turn out a huge fuckin scam - they literally dont even explain the alleged superscience behind it, they only had a 'Tiktok free energy from tinfoil and a wire'' style video shown off that it works.CATL and the entire Chinese battery industry came to the conclusion that they're pretty close to actually being able to make solid state batteries at scale, but they might end up not being worth it since they've got issues of their own, they might end up not being worth it.
So it seems no one has realised it, but what this is isn't a battery, but a capacitor.Donut Labs made an investment in Nordic Nano, and picrel is from a presentation of theirs. The 400Wh/kg stat is the exact same as the Donut Lab battery. Also mentions printing technologies for storage which would explain the "can be any shape" part.
>>28798491Megacapacitors would no joke be a total tech disruptor. It would completely change the automotive market, since none of the classic battery drawbacks would apply.
>>28798495Their leakage rate would also be a factor. Maybe more suitable for heavy industry where a dump truck or semi is being used constantly but for consumer vehicles needing to recharge your car 5 minutes before you leave will be more expensive than annoying.The 5 minute charging thing also annoys me. Getting a 700kW charger installed will be... interesting.
>>28798496Yes, it would greatly depend on keeping self-discharge rate as low as possible.
>>28797854you have never traveled in a bike, a 10 minute rest to get some warm coffee in the winter or cool down in the shade in summer is something common
>>28798496You could construct a hybrid battery-capacitor powerpack, with a 20 kWh battery (out of 25 total), and a 50 kWh ultracapacitor. The battery keeps the capacitor energized (to counteract leakage), and the capacitor can manage battery charge and get full current from the station all the time (unlike now, when current drops relatively quickly after the first 30 or so minutes).
>>28798495the longevity of current supercapacitors is legit worse than nicad cells
>>28798516>in a bikeI have not ever "travelled IN" a bike you retarded ESL because I'm not stupid enough to ride one when it's a) a death sentence and b) an extreme nuisance to everyone else on the road. I'm not selfish like bikeniggers are.
>>28798666>an extreme nuisance to everyone else on the roadHow exactly are they a nuisance to other road users because they use the road? I can get that they can be a nuisance to people in general since bikeniggers especially like to install straight pipes and drive in the city all day.
>>28795113more like Fagnut media, amirite?
>>28798666motorcycles greatly reduce traffic jams and parking issues in big cities, if more people used motorcycles when traveling alone the roads would be better
>>28796024BASED. My micro EDFs lasting for 6 to 8 minutes would be nice.
https://www.iltalehti.fi/autouutiset/a/25062489-2327-4ec9-a86f-487248beafe7>People are jumping to conclusions here. Anyone can go test ride a motorcycle. In a few weeks, a bunch of journalists will do so, and you can read their reviews too. I'm sure someone will take the bike apart in the next couple of months and scan the materials anyway. We will also do third-party tests with some media outlets when we have time to do it properly. Right now we are busy taking purchase orders, Lehtimäki points outOh they are too busy taking orders to let some third party test their shit. Well, well, well. My spider senses are tingling.
https://x.com/GFickmuller/status/2009572144410206500Surprise, turns out its a scam.
If it's a scam, it's a really weird one:>they are not a public company (so it isn't a Nikola-style pump & dump with wild claims), nor they are talking about going public or doing a SPAC>they are not raising VC money (and serious investors would actually verify their claims anyway)>the product with their battery comes out this quarter (and isn't even theirs, they are just a supplier), so if it is a lie, people will be able to verify it in like two monthsSo what's the point? That's why I think maybe they indeed discovered something novel.
>>28800561Literally thousands of people scam millions of investorbux then just disappear to the middle East for a life of luxury.
>>28800601Yes, it's weird. It's not like they're Theranos-ing their way into shittons of VC cash, or doing an IPO dine&dash.
>>28800618There are some funds that have ownership in Donut Lab and whatever.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8The CEO is probably just getting more delusional and maniacal with his stories. He didn't receive any major backlash yet about his super intelligence AI that beats everything else. So why not go CES and spin some major yarn.
>>28795113Why the fuck would I trust anything from a company called "donut"?
>>28801265>uses google daily
>>28801591Google launched with a product that was better than their competitors and anyone could use it.They didn't go to tech conferences hyping up their upcoming launch that's gonna be the best ever, no you can't see the product, but it's definitely coming trust.
>>28801643
>>28801265>>28801591You both make good points. Yes google is really popular, apparently for reasons besides the very stupid name, much like 'Donut Lab". What if there was this little mind trick where purposefully whimsical and idiotic words and names are aggressively used in marketing, because of memepower?
>>28801265 >Why the fuck would I trust anything from a company called "donut"? It's just the name of their first product, the donut motor. Used in all Verge Motorcycle models.
>>28801947Again why the fuck would I trust a "donut motor"? To me that screams vaporware bullshit. Yes Google also sounds fucking stupid but I'm not buying their products.
>>28801953 >To me that screams vaporware bullshit.Except they've already built and sold several. https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/
>>28801960Several? And they're totally still going to be around 5 years from now? Still sounds like vaporware to me.
https://youtu.be/O8PjlwZVLVE&t=2209>we have this breakthrough tech we are focused on shipping to OEMs instead of public demos>those are the companies we need to prove this to but that doesn't really include showing it to all of the world >no we will not silence our tech we will scale ourselvesThen why the fuck are you at CES if you already had more customers than you can supply to?
Word on the streets is that it isn't actually a battery but a carbon nanotube-based supercapacitor.
>>28795262Is this the solution to having to buy new lead acid batteries every 5-10 years? If so I'm all ears.
wouldn't you sell it for billions if it was what it is represented as?
>>28802070We are now in the post 1970s era.A lot of bigger research groups has no fabrication, and as a result can't realistically monopolize anything at all if they don't get a bigger player to build a production line. The second problem is that its only valuable if you can make it at a competing € per KWH for production. If you can't, then its just something that might be made for satellites and specialiced tasks once in a while.
>>28802000Thanks, mr. Spock.
