If you wanted to build a lightweight fox body and I suppose this applies to some other cars, is the 2-door desirable because it has less glass or is the added weight of the 3-door considered to be worth it because the weight is over the back wheels and improves overall weight distribution?
>>28798746Eww that's old
>>28798746The 3 door looks cooler and if you're going for lightweight you should replace all the glass with plastic.
The difference in weight distribution is negligible, you can make much more of an impact on that by moving components around (battery, fuel cell etc) and corner weighting the carThe main reason Notchbacks are favoured is they have a smaller opening in the rear which makes them more rigidHatches require stronger C-pillars improve rigidity, that's the main reason for the weight difference
>>28798751So are you of the opinion that lower overall weight is better, regardless of what it does to weight distribution?Can a car be too light in the back end?
Also, the weight difference between the shells is about 50lbs which is also almost negligible depending on what exactly you're planning to do
>>28798746Yes there are all types of formulas to min/max a fox body.Its not necessarily what you start with but what you do to it.Fiberglass hatch and lexan weighs less than a fiberglass trunk lid and lexan rear window.Hatchback has more glass but less sheermetal. A notchback LX weighs a couple hundred pounds less than a hatchback GT from the factory but a money pit hatch will weigh less than a slightly modified/lightened notch.
>>28798787Nobody can agree, I've heard 70 or even 100+>>28798782>you can make much more of an impact on that by moving components around (battery, fuel cell etc) and corner weighting the carI would definitely move the battery, fuel cell not so much. I've also been wondering what effect adding a weight to very back of car would have.>>28798788Interesting. The goal is to get as light as possible, within reason, while trying to have good traction and balance. Is there such a thing as being too light in the back?
>>28798792>Is there such a thing as being too light in the back?Yes, obviously.
>>28798785it literally doesn't matter you can buy fucking plastic molded hatches and put lexan glass on that.
>>28798796What do you think about adding more tire vs corner weighting?
>>28798785>Can a car be too light in the back end?It would be a problem for suspension tuning, beyond that it will just understeer as it was designed.
>>28798821unrelated
>>28798828>unrelatedCan you elaborate?To the layman they would both seem like methods for increasing traction.
>>28798823Are you saying you can compensate for a too-light back end with softer springs or something?
>>28798828>inb4 elementary school physics lesson on friction.
>>28798830Corner weighting is a process you'll be going through once the car is assembled, doesn't matter what kind of tires you bolted on before that.Yes, both can be used to help traction, sure>>28798838yes, that's the very basic idea
>>28798838Maybe, but I was thinking of tunable shocks with a different ratio for compression and rebound. Otherwise it will squat with soft springs alone under acceleration.
>>28798746I've been doing weeks of reading on building out fox bodies because of the Zephyr project I'm doing.If you really want to minmax a Fox, and you're talking about weight distribution, I'm assuming it's because you care about handling and not because you're trying to build a paperweight drag car.If that's the case, your best bet is to focus on the suspension instead of weight. Buy whichever bodystyle you think is cooler, it doesn't matter. Next step is bust out your wallet because it's about to get spendy.Youre going to want to convert to SLA/double wishbone in the front using kit from Griggs or Detroitspeed. These are the absolute best front suspension solutions for the Fox - it also means you'll be converting to SN95 spindles and that will let you use a big brake package that's compatible with those spindles. If you really care about weight, you can go to a Flaming River manual steering rack. If we're following that formula, in the rear you'll be doing an IRS conversion. Ridetech seems to be the go-to.For the best handling you'll really need to add weight to stiffen the chassis with subframe connectors. You could offset that by stripping the interior of course.
>>28798870If you either don't want to spend quite that much money, or you want to retain the McPherson setup in the front and the solid rear axle, your best bet is Maximum Motorsports. Their front k-member and coilover conversion will shed weight and adjusts the geometry to work better with the later spindles. If you call them they'll spec out a full kit for you and it'll probably run about $5k.I'm not going either or those routes myself because they both require 17" wheels. Which look fine on a Mustang, but not on a Fairmont/Zephyr imo. Since I don't want to go larger than 15" wheels I'll be using 87-93 V8 spindles with SVO style calipers and rotors in the front, and 10.5" discs in the back. Aftermarket k-member, a-arms, and bump stops. Upgraded sway bars front and rear, panhard in the rear, and coilover conversion.
>>28798821Just turn it into a gasser with higher rake at the front.
>>28798785>Can a car be too light in the back end?It seems like this would be really easy to both test and also fix. Think the car is too light in the back? Add weight (sandbags, books, lead weights, whatever) and see if it goes better. Add/remove weight until you find the optimum value.
>>28798879DESU I'm not 100% decided on the fox I've just been thinking a lot about 2-doors vs 3-doors lately, whether chasing lighter weight can do more harm than good, and if so, how to best compensate for it. I've heard of people who prefer to leave the glass in the hatch because they think it improves the handling. I don't know.I'd never swap the live axle for IRS I can't articulate why.
>>28798746Less notchbacks were made, so they're significantly more expensive to buy.
>>28798870>>28798879although I said I'd never swap the live axle for IRS I'm a fabricator by trade and I used to have pipe dreams of fitting a transaxle with inboard brakes to fix a nose-heavy car and drastically reduce unsprung weight. Inboard brakes never really caught on so maybe they're not as good as they sound.
>>28798746You want the car to be as light as possible period. You can worry about weight distribution later with relocating the battery or even using a ballast, that way you can have weight distribution among all 4 corners and not just front and rear.
>>28798917You might be surprised how much I think about weight distribution. I used to think about putting the radiator in the trunk lid with an electric water pump like some front engine rally cars did. This would seem to have the same pros and cons as battery relocation. You're taking something heavy from the very front and moving it to the very back, but you're adding the weight of all that extra copper or hoses full of water.I've got a bucket full of tungsten carbide scrap that might come in handy for making ballasts.
>>28798900>fabricator by tradeWell the subframe stiffening and SLA front suspension install would be significantly easier for you then. I don't have a welder and have essentially no fabrication experience so I basically have to limit myself to bolt on options if I realistically want to finish my project.
>>28798785yes, but the foxbody doesnt have that problem. you can easily get these cars under 2500lbs, there are k members to correct caster and wheelbase and there is a good 2-3" to move the engine back in the engine bay. you could easily get a v6 completely behind the front wheels
>>28798929>front suspension install I'm not really offended or persuaded by the mcdonald strut meme. A well set up strut is probably fine.>>28798932>correct ... wheelbaseHow does that work? The excessive front overhang on the fox body HAS always bothered me but how can you fix that?
When people talk about changing wheelbases and moving engines 3 inches, swapping the front AND rear suspension to completely different types etc it make my crazy ideas sound a little less crazy.Installing a transaxle has so many benefits I don't understand why this is so low on the list of car modifications and never done. People do the most extreme car mods but they never switch to a transaxle. Maybe it's a lack of aftermarket support.Where to start? The usual live axle vs IRS argument of sprung vs unsprung weight applies. By moving the transmission, clutch and flywheel to the back the weight distribution benefits would be insane. You could move the alternator to the back. Run it off the tailshaft just before the diff. If you had an electric water pump, no power steering and no air conditioning you could have an engine with no pulleys on the front at all.
>>28799003It is usually a packaging issue. That’s why Corvettes have fuck all for trunk space.
>>28799003you need to re engineer the rear half the car to make roomWith what you're dreaming up here you might as well start with a vette
>>28799029>>28799038>packaging issue>re engineer the rear half the car to make roomWell yes and no. On a live axle car they have a bit of room to allow for the diff and tailshaft moving up and down so the room for a transaxle is mostly there. The flywheel and clutch are a problem you need to intrude into the rear seat area for those. As for the suspension it's probably not that bad. There are many options. Something like this probably wouldn't be too hard.
>>28798746'79 notch 4 banger are the lightest Fox body Mustangs.
>>28799068this is probably a better pic. the sold discs are a bit meh
>>28799075>>28799068Go for it dude, how hard can it be?I'm currently converting a 1991 SW20 MR2 to all wheel drive, using a cosworth MT75 gearbox, and running the diff upside down.The engine I'll be using a nissan VQ35, which I will be destroking to 2litres for rally regulations, and will be using a single IHI Turbine.I'm currently cutting the transmission tunnel, and my angle grinders a peice of shit, does anyone have any tips here? I've got through 6 of these fucking wafer thin discs so far, all they do is snap into peices.>Pic related, its the tunnel I'm cutting out the car. Its where the fuel tank would normally be but I'll be running one single carbon fibre fuel cell in the passenger footwell.
>>28799080ohohoho I don't have any plans to go for it I'm just saying. I vaguely remember a 4wd mr2 mad scientist from like 10 years ago is that you?
>>28799080I'm not familiar with the cosworth mt75 but weren't all the cosworth 4wd cars north-south engines? The mr2 is east-west. What's going on here?
>>28799080>the engine I'll be using a nissan VQ35, which I will be destroking to 2litres for rally regulations, and will be using a single IHI Turbine.Kudos for being crazy enough to make a 4wd mr2 But here I really must object.>v6 are crap>destroking a v6 to 2 liters when you can just use an i4 is the bad kind of insanity>single turbo on a v6. Just thinking about a single turbo on a longitudal v6 makes my teeth hurt it's heresy.
>>28799080I haven't seen this copypasta in a while
Don't tell him Pike.
>>28799116>I haven't seen this copypasta in a whileWas it a copypasta? It's been so long I thought it was a real
>>28799120that pasta must be at least 15 years old by now
>>28799123I don't come here that often anymore. I haven't been an /o/ regular since that dick head crashed his dads subaru and some fucking retard was dealing drugs out of a corvette. You got me good.
>>28799116>>28799123I fire it off once a year or so, always gets a few people but it works better when it doesn't get called out immediately
>>28799134You got me. I knew I'd seen it a long time ago but I'd forgotten it was a joke.
>>28799134Im actually suprised it got 3 (You)s
>>28799149>Im actually suprised it got 3 (You)sThey're all me so it's more like one (you). I hope you fucking niggers had a good laugh catching the stupid old man in your joke trap.
>>28799068Wtf.Even Ford figured out how to do IRS.
>>28798785Better to be underweight and add it back in a controlled manner
street builds are boring, dirt and offroad where its @
>>28799282yuck they already perfected their designwhy ford have like 10 different irs/ifs designs is beyond me
>>28799378it does make a good looking rally car
>>28799383My lower arm (the one that matters) is better than yours.
>>28798746The hatchbacks have a LOT less body stiffness, which doesn't particularly matter if you're gonna add a roll-bar with a crossbrace. Weight is almost identical.
>>28798792>what effect adding a weight to very back of car would haveNever add needless weight on an overhang as it will make the car less stable. So if you move your battery, place as far forward in the trunk as you can without putting it over the rear axle. Racers who have to add weight usually place it on the rear passenger floorboards.
>>28799068wow, its like a solid axle but with extra steps
>>28799029This is the trunk on an MN12 chassis thunderbird, which has the IRS pictured here>>28799282>>28799282
>>28802478That's a SN95 IRS from the '99-'04 Cobra, this is a MN12 cradle.
>>28802792Ya I was trying to find a pic of a clean assembly and realized after I posted it but said "eh fuck it, nobody will know the difference..."
