Have you ever noticed how tire prices have not gotten cheaper despite being a 100 year old technology?
>>28800174They are comparatively cheap.
>>28800174The concept of the rubber tire is 150 year old technology Radial tires came about 80 years ago Modern tires have continued to improve on the tech, and have almost nothing in common with even tires of the 90s. You can confirm this when you put an old performance car (say, 30 years old) on modern tires, and watch it occupy an entirely different class of speed and lateral G. Tires have been steadily improving this entire time, and thus manufacturing methods, complexity and standards keep changing. That, and your average wheel today is way bigger and thus needs more material. You can get a set of 14" tires for $200, but almost nobody makes them now because nobody is making wheels that fit them. If we were making the exact same tires in the same sizes we were 50 years ago, they would be way cheaper. Its the same concept that makes TVs get cheaper with time; the technology does not meaningfully iterate over time so it just gets cheaper to manufacture the same thing. I feel like you're making some "big tire" jew allusion with this post but it doesn't really land.
>>28800183Tires haven't gotten cheaper when they should be cheaper.
>>28800198Why should they be?Tires are not the same today, and nobody makes them the same way or in the same sizes they used to, so no.
>>28800174>Have you ever noticed how tire prices have not gotten cheaper despite being a 100 year old technology?Have you ever noticed how land prices have not gotten cheaper despite being around for millions or billions of years depending on who you ask? Crazy huh?
>>28800285You can't make land. You can make tires. China sells their car tires for $15 each.
>>28800288>You can't make land. You can make tires. China sells their car tires for $15 each.Where are the resources for those tires coming from?
>>28800174so you never noticed how tires get measurably grippier over wider temperature changes every year? for comparable prices so you get more for your money? you only buy shit tires I guess. ultra high performance all seasons are as grippy if not grippier than dedicated summer tires 10 years ago. 200tw tires have race slick level grip. that technology does trickle down though so even tards like you should have noticed by now.
>>28800312>race slick level gripCan confirmI put some continentals on my c4 and now regaining grip from a slide feels like my axle getting pulled out
>>28800324it's gotten to the point that the overwhelming majority of 200tw tires are only useable as cheater tires for scca street class. they are a waste of money on the street, you aren't pulling half of the necessary gs on the street to get them to break loose unless you are a complete menace behind the wheel.
Hey if the things didn't work as great as they do now then I'd have an issue paying the fee but given how innovative and gripper new era tires are compared to shit we had in the 90s is worth their weight in gold. Motorcycle tires are even more insane in how well they behave compared to before
>>28800294do yourself a favor and stop posting.
>>28800334In other words you don't understand basic economics and how resources increase in cost over time, the value of the dollar goes down, and input costs go up meaning you must charge more for the final product. >But muh scale of economyOnly goes so far bud. Also maybe the fact that tires are bound to regulations by the DOT in the U.S. Yeah you could probably get a cheaper tire direct from china, but it wouldn't actually be legal to run on the roads in the U.S. without going through the proper palm greasing procedures. Have you tried not being retarded? Tires are pretty fucking cheap right now compared to everything else... They skyrocketed in cost back in Obama's first term. They're actually cheaper now than they were at that time.
>>28800174Things get more expensive with time not less expensive, it's called inflation. The only reason this is not true for technology is because newer technologies come out which outcompete older technologies and as demand for older tech lowers they lower the price to compensate which by that time they can afford to do because they've already made all the capital investments they needed and earned enough to pay back those investments. They can only lower market share to compete against better technologies. Obviously this dynamic doesn't apply to tires because they are not improving rapidly. The main costs come from the rubber plantations which are going to have a fixed amount they can produce based on how many trees have been planted. Things like overharvesting, pests, diseases, drought, etc will only reduce yields and cause prices of rubber to go up.
>>28800529*lower prices to gain market share
>>28800174As others mentioned : I can go out and buy tires in the factory size for nothing, that vastly out perform the one equipment for the car. The original Yokohama T/A s that were 100 80s bucks on my s12s are blown out the water in wet and dry traction, longevity, and lower tire noise by weird Thai tires like Doral SD1s that cost only 35 dollars a tire. Tires are so much better than they used to be and most idiots just think a tire is a tire.
>Mother dies in a car crash as a child >Get PhD in materials science hoping to make the world safer>Spend 15 years and $500k in research and investment funding, spend entire socializing to get funding>Finally find a breakthrough chemical process that increases grip while maintaining longevity>Work with a company to design a new factory like for new process>Gotta pay industrial engineers, chemical engineers, lawyers, desk jockeys, HR, advertising, janitorial staff"Why tire cost money?">End up blowing your brains out with over $1mil in debt when the intern that likes your wife sells your whole process to China.Yes this is obviously fictional but you should get the point.
>>28800629>factory like"line"
>>28800174Have you ever noticed how bread prices have not gotten cheaper despite being a 9000+ year old technology?
>>28800174My tires keep gaining in price.Shit sucks.$450+ for a fucking tiny 295/30R18 is crazy
>>28800658PS4S for my car is 2k for the set. Summer tires right now have so much grip though it's kinda amazing
>>28800658>yoke a052yeah they have crazy demand because they are basically THE autocross street tire at the nats/prosolo level especially for lightweight cars, and it's a decent street legal track tire as well. you could be paying almost half for less competitive tires but depending on the level of competition that may be a huge difference.
>>28800674A052s are on their way out 2,000lb cars like them.Heavy cars are faster on the RE71RS.And now the RE71RZ are coming out and even faster.But prices are all high now.
>>28800174Prices are spiking a bit in the last few years. So what do you think? Supply chain issues or greedflation like everything else?
>>28800658I'm seriously considering one inch smaller wheels because it's a more common size of tyre and pay half of what I'm actually paying for mine now
>>28800728if your brakes fit there's almost no reason not to. sure the wheels are an investment but you could sell your old ones, and the difference will pay for itself after a few sets of tires, plus lower unsprung weight for the wheel+tire package
>>28800722now graph it against inflation
>>28800198Based on what? Other than. "I just feel like it should be cheaper."
When, in the history of fucking FOREVER, has ANYTHING ever dropped down in price
>>28800987Prostitutes when they get older
>>28800987TVs and other stuff do.3d printers for example.
>>28800722>Supply chain issueswe are using rubber faster than we can make it
>>28800667What I paid for my rears.
>>28801005You guys pay a lot of taxes or something? My rears are 305/30/21 inch and it's $530
>>28800183the massive increase in wheel/tire size is an environmental crime against humanity. Bring back 17-18" as the "big" size, 15-16" as the normal size, and 14" for small cars.
>>2880109816" and below is not doable, the weight of modern cars needs bigger brakes which do not fit in smaller wheels
Running 14"s here.Bigger brakes allow for better heat dissipation on a track.If you disable ABS and can lock up the brakes then your brakes are demonstrably better than the tires at braking and increasing the braking force will do nothing other than make it lock harder.You can lock the tires in any car with ABS disabled even with hoosiers - go try it.Conclusion - tires are more important than brakes for braking unless you're on a track heating up the brakes to an extreme level. 14s would still be suitable on today's cars for real world driving.
>Bigger brakes allow for better heat dissipationyes, that's the pointin a perfect world people would change their brake fluid when they need to, wouldn't drag their brakes downhill, and wouldn't 'emergency brake' multiple times in a row, but people are retarded
>>28801098This. It's getting hard to find used 15" and 16" tires for trailers and farm implements. I was prepared for the world to be gay and retarded, but not this gay and retarded...
>>28801130I've literally done 90 minute track sessions in my DD with vatozone brake pads and never got fade. Heat dissipation is not a safety concern when it comes to street driving - if you're driving hard enough to experience fade then you should be in deep enough to know what you're doing.Good tires and reducing weight are more important for braking and road safety than having good brakes.Wheels are bigger on newer cars because wheel size was a big deal in the '00s as a status symbol (yes, even for white people), then cars in the '10s got huge so the wheels got big to keep it aesthetically what people expect.
>>28801125Nigga, try locking up Hoosier slicks at 160mph on the main straight.
>>28801135>90 minute track sessions in my DD with vatozone brake pads and never got fade. That means you were driving slow as fuck.Not even slow, but supreme levels of slow.
>>28801152I knew you'd say that, it was the low-hanging fruit, the easiest thing to say. You could've addressed my argument.Heat dissipation is not an issue unless you've been driving balls-out for a while or are in a loaded semi. Bigger brakes on Stacey's SUV with 19"s don't magically make her decelerate more than the tires can handle. Most people frame better brakes as a safety thing but a one-time braking incident on the street doesn't need good brakes because, again, even shit brakes can lock up the wheels on good tires unless they're steaming hot. It's tire-limited unless you've been going balls-out for a while in which case you should know better.
>>28801204Anon, street brake pads give up around 800F.A SINGLE STOP on track will spike your pad temp well above 1,200F+That's one fucking 150mph stop.Doesn't matter how good your brake cooling is.I've killed a set of DCT30a track pads on a C7Z06. All it took was a single (1) stop from 160mph and the pads melted.Swapped to DCT80s and the problem was solved.If your parts store pads survived 90 minutes, YOU ARE HELLA SLOW.LIKE HOLY SHIT I WANT YOU OFF MY TRACK KIND IF SLOW.Even fucking Miatas run the less aggressive track pads.
>>28801255You still didn't address my point.My point is that, on the road, better brakes don't improve braking because it's tire limited not brake limited. And, from experience, you can brake hard as shit time and time again without experiencing brake fade.If what you were saying were true, and braking hard once makes your brakes shit, then I'd be dead a thousand times over. In my 20s I drove 150+ weekly, maxed out at 176. Never experienced brake fade.Call me slow, that's all you know how to do. But "better" brakes will not make a car safer on the street - tires will.
>>28800198i feel like they're the same price, but the rubber compounds are more likely than not better than they've ever been before so you're getting a better performing tyre for the same price. except for tyres like bf goodrich radial T/As. Those seem to be stuck in the 90s and cost at least 3x as much as anything else in the same sizes
>>28800728do it. i went three inches smaller and the car actually corners and accelerates quicker. the onboard fuel economy computer also shows me using less fuel as well, by a small amount but it's definitely there.
>>28800987hard drives
>>28801135>90 minute track sessionswhen I was new to the track, the stock pads were good enough at first. After a couple of events, I started running into the limits of street pads. Full track pads made a big difference, and I haven’t looked back since. Once you start pushing the car harder and doing 30+ minute sessions, most street or AutoZone-style pads just can’t keep up.
>>28801263>Brakes are tire limited.Ya we know you fucking retard.Any more novice advice mr, "I Did 3 track days 5 years ago"Now back to your 90 MINUTE track secession on cheap brake pads claim.Get the fuck off my track and don't come back until you are +-5 seconds off a GT3RS lap time.I don't want your slow ass ruining my flying laps or anyone else's
>>28801302I'm that anon. Literally my 2nd sentence in this thread was "Bigger brakes allow for better heat dissipation on a track."I totally get that a better setup is better for the track but most of this thread was not track oriented until I said that. My point is that better brakes will not save stacey from hitting the car she just noticed while texting, better tires might. And that's absolutely true.A lot of yuppies spend $10k on a larger wheel/brake option on their new car just to tool around exactly as they would in any other vehicle, their brakes aren't going to be 1000F when a deer runs in front of them and the tires will be the limiting factor.
>>28801307If you are only referencing street use, why did you claim to be able to track a mild street pad for 60min?You are not making much sense.
>>28801304>He bought a fast car and suddenly he's a physicist, mechanical engineer, and race car driver!
>>28801309My point is that if I can do that with no fade then obviously it isn't an issue on the street - as I said in the 2nd half of the post you're talking about.And that's true; the proof is in the pudding and people would be dying all over the place if your brakes got molten-hot by 1-2 braking events.
>>28801096Our VAT is 20%. The reasoning is the sidewall size as 35. I just checked for the same tyre, except at a 30 and they were £250, so it would have been £500 with fitting.
>>28801098This guy gets it. Why does a top trim Corolla have fuckin 18" wheels
>>28801098>17-18" as the "big" sizeyea how much tire and brake does a 300 hp mini van really require ?
>>28803401Need for SPeed 2 my beloved
>>28801119>the weight of modern cars needs bigger brakes which do not fit in smaller wheelsA lot of that can be fixed with low-profile calipers instead of regular cast iron units. It's generally heresy in the tuning community to shave brake calipers since it's a safety item, but a few mm can be enough to clear a smaller diameter rim.The amount that lowrider guys shave calipers is insane, but they're not exactly going fast either.
>>28803401>yea how much tire and brake does a 300 hp mini van really require ?Depends what you're doing with it. Pic related:>2GR-FE from 266 hp to 300+ hp- Cold air intake, unknown diameter or how they fixed the MAF fuel trim- 3" catback exhaust>wheel and tire (must clear rear doors)- RPF1 18x10- Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R 275/35R18>brakes- Supposedly stock diameter rotors- Larger brake pads and calipersTurns out it's possible to stuff lots of tire and brake into a 300 hp minivan. There's weirdos out there that swap Lexus parts to get the larger brakes for cheap, and the MR2 and Lotus community are steadily figuring out what the 2GR can take. Turns out the engine can handle lots of power but it's choked out by having intake and exhaust components standardized with their 4-cylinder counterparts.
>>28801119They all have relatively small calipers for the wheel look at modern suvs and trucks with 19-22inch wheels they have like 10 inch front calipers it's retarded and they don't fill the wheel and look shit but normies are retarded so they deserve to subsidize the tire industry
>>28803465>The Sienna can fit RPF-1'sNeat.
>>28803480The only reason why things like this are happening is because Lotus builds some of their cars around the 2GR so people are starting to ask the question on if the Sienna can also get modded like a Lotus since it's the same engine.Basically trickle-down economics where richfags in British sports cars finance all the tuning R&D and minivan owners now have an option to go somewhat fast without doing an engine swap.
>>28800294>>28800353Shut the fuck up you pseud
>>28800288your linglongs will not last more than 10k, anon
>>28803491one day heading home from work during rush hour traffic, there was a slightly beat up previa that shot past me and i heard fucking turbo flutter coming from it lmao. i wanted to chase him and check out the build but he was way too far ahead
>>28803667The Previa is a weird case where it's desirable for its quirks (and the rare supercharged version), but there's a slowly growing pool of minivan enthusiasts that are figuring out that they can be souped up. If the engine exists somewhere else and it makes power on another car, why not the van too?That pool of drivers clamoring to soup up their minivan is unsurprisingly, 100% men and overwhelmingly stancefags. It's mostly for induction and exhaust noise, it seems. The ones who do it for performance make sleeper cars, and nothing is quite as sleepy as a stock-looking minivan.
