What is the final solution to the McPherson struts problem? Could the government truly incentivize manufacturers to wholly discontinue cheap ass struts and add double wishies to even the cheapest poorbox?
>>28868905>toyota still sells trailing arms Toyota fags are an embarrassment
shifter karts have zero suspension n handle better than both of those.less suspension = better handling
>>28868905Man i hate looking at mcdonalds struts so much, just screams poverty, rental, cheap, bean counters have been here, jewish influence etc.
>>28868940uhhhh which jews have influenced the design of my gookmobile?
>>28868905>What is the final solution to the McPherson struts problem?What is bus rider's obsessions with McPhersons?
>>28868951shut the hell up wrenchlet, you drive a rental
>>28868905unironically just restart the factories that make the old boatsCrown Vic and AU Falconlive rear axle and double-wishes up front, dead reliable, and any feature these cars don't have that new cars do is automatically gay and retarded. Still cheap enough to be family cars. the AUs even had optional LSD.
>>28868954>t. bus rider
>>28868960um why can't we have double wishies up front with IRS multi link rear suspensionthe front suspension imho is way worse than the rear
>>28868960its wild that even the cheapest mass produced shitboxes used to have bones as a standard, you have to drop 250,000+ to get a boned car in 2026
>>28868963the front suspension is worse? I don't get what you mean by that, the front on every Vics/Falcons is double-wishbonesanyway, you can. the AUs had IRS options. I've only driven one with a solid axle, and I like the solid axle (extremely easy to control a drift with) but I know a lot of people don't. IDK if the Vics had IRS options.
>>28868980the front suspension seems to crash harder over bumps, less rebound, more spooky handling, but could just be cuz its a front driver (AWD) carI know they re-jiggered the front suspension on my car in the model years since I bought it, so they know it is a problem my understanding is solid axle blows for most situations except towing, racing in a straight line, and rough roadsand they only used a solid axle on those cars to save money, not for suspension performance
>>28868985Crown Vic suspension?I haven't driven it, also didn't know there were AWD/FWD versions. I drive a Falcon (every one is rwd) which I thought was basically the same concept, since Ford Australia considered just importing the crown vic instead of designing the au falcon.as in, they're made to do the same goal, but the designs are actually pretty different on details, e.g. vics body on frame vs. falcons unibodytowing was pretty important because australia didn't have pickup truggs, we used utes which are literally the front half of a sedan with a bed on the back, and they're expected to tow. the falcon tows 5,000 lbs, that's probably why they went with a solid axle. the mustang had solid axles up to 2015 I think? Can't be that bad.I haven't driven IRS cars enough but I like the handling on the solid axle. very predictable.
>>28868905>What is the final solution to the McPherson struts problem?Having proper wishbones on all four and allowing normies to buy maccas because it makes you better in comparison.
>>28868905You're not a good enough driver to notice the difference in suspension geometry, fag
>>28868996>because it makes you better in comparisonYou actually believe that, don't you?>>28869262This, x10.
>>28868951They dont understand camber (or suspension geometry in general).These dipwads drive fwd shitboxes with torque steer and think its "normal".Just imagine a high school classroom full of autoshop101 students- thats who posts these threads.
>>28869301I have an AWD/FWD shitbox and the AWD basically eliminates torque steer, not as if there's enough torque to really feel it anyways
>>28868905>double swiss bonez
>>28869669maybe they just need an enticing marketing campaign to sell the public on the virtue of upgrading vehiclesprobably would be safer too
>>28869767Orly? What are the amazing benefits that the average driver would feel and want? And how are you going to sell them on the inferior suspension packaging?
>>28869262>>28869271but lets say I am, what then?
>>28870621I don't deal in unlikely theoreticals. Besides, you're not.
>>28870627BUT what if I am?
>>28868905OP sounds like a communist.
>>28870636You're not. If you were, you'd post s learned piece of the effect McPherson geometry has on bump steer, or some lap times you've done around challenging circuit in cars, similar in layout, but with the two suspension types, such as a 911 GTS and a 911 GT3.You posted a frog.
>>28868905My suspension is never close enough to the limit in a corner that my McPherson struts get to the part of their stroke where I lose camber, so it literally doesn't matter.It is adjusted properly with aftermarket camber plates, sprung properly, with good quality struts/shocks and handles better than your shitbox.If I ever decide I really need it, I can simply do a complete conversion of the front suspension to a Griggs or similar SLA. I have not felt like it would be a meaningful improvement for the driving I do. Same as the IRS rear conversion - I actually like the live rear axle and even serious racing guys like the dudes at MM acknowledge IRS has tradeoffs, it's not all good.
>>28870765There are classes that allow IRS swaps on Fox Body mustangs. The wins are about 50/50 for IRS to Solid Axle. Some tracks are better suited for one or the other. There is no clearly defined winner.
>>28869530>I have an AWD/FWD shitboxStopped reading right there, good luck with the sale.
>>28868944Nigga we have 4 cylinders because of a fuel crisis because we supported jews in 1973
>>28868964>even theThey didn't. Double wish was never a mass market standard on cheap cars.>>28869530>not as if there's enough180ftlb is enough to make noticeable torque steer on a fwd. 250+ like any decent engine is the range where you need to fight it and use brakes through turns for grip balance.I'll make a guess you have a shitter PTU system that caps at 50/50 and an engine that peaks at ~260 or less. god forbid its a subaru and not a ford or chrysler like I'm guessing.But anon, McPherson has fuckall to do with torque steer. So you're just blabbering on nonsensically.>>28868905HiPerStrut, RevoKnuckle, or the dual ball joint/a-arm design like a Camaro.Or you could do the ultracramped packaging of a porsche.Many ways to minimize the inherent limitations of a McPherson
>>28870636If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike
>>28871016>Double wish was never a mass market standard on cheap carsIt was if the manufacturer was being based, Honda Civics, Accords, Hyundai Sonatas, Ford FiveHundreds, those E class based chrysler 300s and chargerchallies.It can be done, the bada ba ba ba strut suspension is literally cost cutting incarnate.
>>28868995>didn't have pickup truggsWe did until about the 00s, they just weren't as popular.
ay so yall know about suspension? what's this dune buggy lookin ass setup? can it handle the DONKs? what's it called? I need the suspension for big wheels man
>>28871016>But anon, McPherson has fuckall to do with torque steer. So you're just blabbering on nonsensically.my point was more about the AWD system (on my FWD-based cuckover) totally negating torque steer. I've had FWD cars that DID have torque steer and it's a very different sensation. the "your clutch pack isn't real AWD" screechers don't realize what an improvement AWD is, of course at the expense of extra fuel and having to maintain the diff and components and fluids. I have noticed what could be strut shittiness on steep dirt roads in hairpin turns where there's no stability and it's very bouncy and insecure, esp uphill.
>>28871119What part of torque steer has nothing to do with the usspension did you and >>28869301 not understand.torque steer is from the driveshafts being unequal length.it wouldnt matter if a car had F1 suspension or a perfect magnaride or 20tw super tires.suspension does nothing to change torque steer.>totally negating torque steeragain physically impossible you're just feeling less of it from the F/R power split>strut shittinessyour car is used and worn out duhkind of hilarious to see retards >>28869301 post about busriders when they don't even understand the basics of the topic
>>28871137>suspension does nothing to change torque steer.that's not what the reviews of the civic type r say
The real reason McPherson struts are the most widely used is because double wishbones go to absolute shit as the bushings wear. Total slop city, and become actually unsafe.Companies aren't going to accept the liability of a suspension that becomes a hazard if the owner doesn't get the bushings all replaced every 30-50k miles.Mccys can run on totally shot bushings and feel like shit without being an actual safety hazard.
>>28871209that makes sense, but then, what's a better alternative?my dad doesn't believe in replacing suspension components, he just thinks cars get "more comfortable" over time
>>28869301>>28870765>part of their stroke where I lose camber, so it literally doesn't matter.Shut the hell up wrenchlet, the flaw of mcqueersons is no camber gain or loss at all lol. How do you feel now?
>>28871209>as the bushings wear.Just say you're a poor wrenchlet kek. How the fuck do you get filtered by bushing wear kek
>>28871118Cantilever suspension , mainly used to gain more travel when the car is too lowered to allow that level of travel with the standard setup Seems like it's a meme most of the time though for people who just want cool looking rear suspension
>>28871417Normies do. It's one of the least likely repairs they'll ever approve a mechanic to do
>>28871417it's a safety thing from the manufacturer too. same reason why cars are set up from the factory to understeer rather than oversteer.
>>28871542I don't think I've had oversteer even once from my Kia. Not that I push it at all, but it is VERY safely tuned. It really fucking hates turning at speed, I wonder if a suspension change would alter that at all.
>>28871415>the flaw of mcqueersons is no camber gain or loss at all lol.orly> MacPherson struts will slightly gain negative camber under roll at first (which is good), but as the roll angle increases they will actually lose negative camber, (not good). It is really important to limit roll on strut equipped cars for this reason.How do YOU feel now?
>>28871565fatter rear sway bar will do that
>>28871644You'd be lucky to get a .5 you faggot wrenchlet
>>28871660>no camber gain or loss at allSo you admit you were wrong and now we're just arguing the degree of incorrectness?
>>28871680Holy shit you are retarded, dumbass wrenchlet larp faggot. Fuck your rental take that shit back to car max kek
>>28871694I accept your apology
>>28870993Jfc it's literally impossible to not attribute every negative aspect of our lives to these fucking people.
>>28871712Apologize this dick, back to CarMax, fuck out of the fast lane. Wrenchlet.
>>28871789No, no it's fine. Your first apology is enough. No need to beat yourself up about posting an incorrect fact on /o/ - you can't help your lack of education as long as you commit to improve it
>>28871794Dumbass wrenchlet kek
>>28871797I know you are. But let it go, anon. You didn't know any better.
Having a job that pays 200/hr is better than wrenching on a shitbox
>>28871802>make 200/hr>Drive McDonald's strutsYea I think you're retarded or have low standards. >>28871800Dumbass wrenchlet
>>28868905>greatest car ever built>uses McPherson struts front and backI don't see the problem?
>>28871905Needs an upper control arm and a sway bar, then it's perfect.
>>28871917Also DOHC, it needs DOHC
>>28868964>you have to drop 250,000+ to get a boned car in 2026New Miatas start at $30k, bones on all 4. BRZs are about the same, bones in the rear.Lots of things are multilink which is somewhat like more complicated wishbones. Though I prefer wishbones, easier to keep aligned.
>>28871917>transmission eats itself after 100k miles
>>28871939The transmission failures of Hondas are way overblown, there's so many of them out there and of course the many shitheads who can't into doing a simple drain and fill every so often have got the most to say about how unreliable the automatic transmission of a Honda is.
>>28871942>The transmission failures of Hondas are way overblownI personally got fucked out of $3000 for the car plus another $1000 by a piece of shit attorney that was gonna "write a letter for $50".
>>28871944oops
>>28868980>IDK if the Vics had IRS options.nope lol>>28868995>the mustang had solid axles up to 2015 I think?apart from one quite rare new edge 'stang variant, yes>Can't be that bad.yeah when handling wasn't a concern and they happened to make a rear axle and diff that could handle a metric shit ton of power
skill issue
>>28868960Doesn't matter of rhe crown vic had double bones, it was a body on frame design so the suspension is utter dogshit regardless.
>>28872414Bones with body on frame is better than McDonald's retard, and you're a wrenchlet, auto-only
>>28872482Doesn't matter, still body on frame cheap slop tractor chassis auto-only dogshit and is utterly mogged by unibody maccas cars.
>>28871016>They didn't. Double wish was never a mass market standard on cheap cars.Dumb nigga, Civics and Accords used to have them for cheap. They were as mass market as possible, retard. They just want to cut costs and make more profit, that's all.
>>28872609>a car designed for ride comfort is out handled by (X)No shit Sherlock, are you legitimately retarded or something?
>>28872609>utterly mogged by unibody maccas carsNahBut unibody maccasmobiles are definitely mogged by this thing, the unibody wishmobile
>>28872629>ride comfort >a crown vic Lmao>>28872651The Australian JZX
>mogs your shitbox
>>28872651i wonder how old that photo is, can hardly find any lpg servos in syd now. i think there's like 2 or 3 in the entire city lol
>>28872665wait nvm. i might be thinking of cng, there were like one or two stations selling it. but now there's no more.
>>28872337what skills am I missing?
>>28868910Remember what they took from you.
>>28875781what am I looking at?
>>28875896I suspect physically steering a car is his point.Steer by wire is something nobody advertises.
>>28875907i wonder if you could get autosteer + a hydraulic rack somehowI don't wanna give up lane centering:(
>>28875896Maccas in the rear
>>28875951is that bad?
>>28876001Not on low performance cars, definitely better than trailing arms.
ENTER
>>28876257Trailing arms have killed people more than another. Dogshit on any car not going straight and slow
>>28877049
>>28877049the reviews of old bmws with trailing arms are always sketchy
>>28868905>What is the final solution to the McPherson struts problem?by giving it an upper control arm and calling it double wishbone
>>28877212um that's not all a double wishbone is?
>>28877218yep, a MacPherson strut is a budget version of double wishbone by removing the upper control arm and turning the coilover strut into a stressed member of the assembly
>>28877229that's horribletho I learned even BMW jews you hard and you have to pay for the m3 to get double wishiesIsn't the Porsche 911 on mcdonalds?
>>28877232Yes and even the GT3 is on MacPhersons
>>28877235vw be like: the jews may have defeated us in ww2 but we will defeat them in our newly penny pinching waysalso, isn't having just a lower control arm sorta shitty because if a big rock fucks it up theres no upper one to stabilize it?t. takes suvs on horrible roads a lot>The BMW E39 540i features a sophisticated suspension system that includes a double-jointed MacPherson strut design in the frontwhat is a double joined mcdonaldsis that double wishies or something else? I find suspension tech somewhat confusing
Also, question, are ALL Porsche's on Mcdonalds fronts?
>>28877250>what is a double joined mcdonalds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_ball_joint_suspension
>>28877250>also, isn't having just a lower control arm sorta shitty because if a big rock fucks it up theres no upper one to stabilize it?the lower control arm and coilover strut is *enough* to hold steady under most loads, the real problem of mcdonalds suspensions is the wheel increasing in camber as the coilover compresses, that leads to instability under extreme cornering forces where a double wishbone can be tuned to have negative camber under load, increasing usable traction during cornering
>>28877282Yes, and that the strut in a McPherson suspension does not only get loaded with axial forces (spring in/out), but also with radial and other forces.Ideally the spring/damper carries only longitudinal forces.
the regular mustangs all suffer with mcdonaldsyou have to get a million dollar mustang gt3 race car to get double wishies in front:https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/ford/2026-mustang-gt3/
>>28877282>the real problem of mcdonalds suspensions is the wheel increasing in camber as the coilover compresses,Dumbass wrenchlet shut the fuck up, stick to discussing led temu lights and infotainment fucking larping ricer kek
>>28878339>his car can't keep the contact patch flat as the suspension deflectsThis is a certified costcutterson strut moment
>>28878350Bro you have no idea what planet you're on you larping faggot
>>28878378Keep coping over your cheap ass economy car suspension, Anon
Suspension fag won't post his car kek
>>28878571Don't need to when my car has a real suspension, I swear to god car companies are gonna start putting torsion beams in cars to cut costs even further, and you'll have idiots apologizing for it and coping.
>>28878573>I swear to god car companies are gonna start putting torsion beams in cars to cut costs even further,
>>28878573trax/envista and mazda 3/cx30 still have torsion beam rears
>>28878578Good morning, I hate women
>>28877254The Macan and Cayenne are on Audis double wishbone set up, which is excellent. The Panamera is on a Porsche proprietary double wishbone set up. The GT3 is on double wishbone and monoballs which is excellent but really brutal off track. The Panamera has poly bushings which are firm and have less deflections but still absorb some abuse.The 928 had double wishbones and the 904 as well as the 917 and the rest of the race cars. The Carreras all have had McDonalds and until the 997 bad semi trailing arms (lol) with the ‘Weissach axle’ which helped a little with the snap oversteer of trailing armss but come on.TLDR: lol @the used 911 market prices
>>28871917the camry has no upper control arm, but it does have front and rear sway bars. the rear is really small though. can get a fatter rear one to keep it planted but it'll also induce oversteer
>>28879987>but it does have front and rear sway bars. the rear is really small thoughThat's actually based for a Camry which is the non sporty offering, my mom's sonata has wishbones, but no sway bars.
>>28878560No no, you mis understand, again. I'm with you, however you are a dumb as fuck wrenchlet kek. Don't ever tell about engines, transmissions or tires. When it's time to discuss temu led light kits or glue on duckbill spoilers we will consult you. Faggot ricer, larping, tranny, wrenchlet.
>>28879987>but it does have front and rear sway bars. the rear is really small though. can get a fatter rear one to keep it planted but it'll also induce oversteerAnother dumbass wrenchlet larp just don't talk about engines, trannies, suspension or tires and you'll be good. No diffs either. Carbon fiber dashboard trim and TV screen entertainment you can talk about that all day. Wrenchlet, nu-male.
Just have to add this because zoomers are fucking clueless....The big suspension mod for bel airs or 50s Chevy/Ford trucks is a front subframe from a Mustang II or Pinto.Yes you read that correctly.So your answer to the strut "non-issue" is fucking pinto suspension
>>28881457umm ok but that anon WAS talking about control arms and sway bars. i thought his thumbnail was an xv20 camry lol.but why are you spazzing out about unrelated things?
>>28881633>umm ok but that anon WAS talking about control arms and sway bars.That's the issue, hes taking about McDonald's cars magically gaining camber during compression and how it's a bad thing kek. You and him are just both stupid ass larping wrenchlets and YouTube car review ricers. You can't really talk about anything mechanical, it has to be strictly gimmicks, gizmos and easy to install lighting off temu. Good luck.
>>28883057umm ok? all i said was that a fatter rear sway bar will keep the rear planted because i did this on my old xv10 camry. the xv20 stuff has a surprising amount of compatibility with the xv10.
>>28868905remindermcdonalds struts == rental car/ lease bait
riddle me this >I’m obsessed with reliability and durability>I hate maccas and love double wishieswho am I?that’s right an /o/tard
>>28883730Are you implying that double wishbones are less reliable than mcstruts?
>>28883730What a retard
>>28883735>>28883746not him but the control arms on most macpherson cars are absurdly overbuilt
>>28883735you chuds hate spending money on your cars and double wishies will need constant replacement by design, yes
>>28883819real masochists go fort o r s i o nb a rs u s p e n s i o n
>>28883903>leaf spring solid rear axle>torsion beam front based af, this is as close to unsuspended and as direct handling as it gets
>>28868910I've only ever driven Macpher struts and torsion beam. Am I missing out on much (besides maintenance cost)?
>>28883964Have you reached their limit?
>>28883964MacPherson front is fine, torsion rear sucks though, moving up to independent rear is a big comfort upgrade. Torsion beam rear is largely a cost cutting measure for shitboxes, it works but it's rigid and bounces a lot
>>28883964If you have to ask, then no.
>>28883968Not the anon you're asking but I have, on fwd shitboxes torsion can be fun because the rigidity and bounciness can be used to swing the rear a bit, as I said above though torsion is nowhere near as comfy as independent rears
>>28868905it's more than good enough>>28870635VGHyou fuckers have no idea... fuck em for getting rid of this and if it does not come back I hope citroen ceases to exist in my lifetimethe 1(ONE) single redeeming quality they had, GONE just like that>>28871118pushrod. some hardcore racing shit, it moves the weight of the coilover out of the unsprung mass, also aerodynamics improvement if it's open wheel shit (formula whatevers)
>>28883819My car is 28 years old and the doubles wishbones are still fine>>28883964same q, but I've only ever driven double wishies and live rear axle
>>28871144the R has a completely different front diff that intelligently attempts to negate torque steer.
>>28883803There's no reason why you couldn't make the control arms on a double wishbone car just as robust.>>28883819The LCA and bushings see the same load on a double wishbones as mcstruts. The difference between the two is in the lateral loads on the strut shaft with mcstruts, which causes increased wear.
>>28884773>There's no reason why you couldn't make the control arms on a double wishbone car just as robust.Since most cars with double wishbones are performance focused they prefer to save weight. I'm sure there are some beefy ass wishbones out there, but they're far from the norm
>>288839032 rear springs? Pass, too complicated.
>>28884777>Since most cars with double wishbones are performance focused they prefer to save weight. Then that's a problem you have with lightweight sportscars and not with double wishbones.>I'm sure there are some beefy ass wishbones out there,They're common in rock crawlers, they call it SLA (short/long arm) but it's the same kinematically.
>>28884797I don't have a problem with double wishbones, I was just offering a reason why macphersons are generally more durable/reliablea lot of stuff in commuter cars is built with the assumption that it will be heavily abused and poorly maintained
>>28884807Okay, but it still doesn't make double wishbones less reliable than mcstruts, it just means that double wishbones are more often installed on unreliable cars. You could just as easily argue that torsion axles are better than either because they're usually installed on panel vans that are built much stronger than commuter cars. And once again, I'll point out that double wishbones are common on rock crawlers and built much stronger than any mcstrut application. There are no heavy duty mstrut applications because lateral loads on a hydraulic damper is a design that's fundamentally unsuitable for heavy duty/high endurance workloads.
>>28884781>not a masochistngmi
>>28885044Nah, I'm going to make it because I'm NOT a masochist.Or wait, do flatheads count as masochism?
>>28885053that's what i mean. a masochist opts for torsion bars for the love of replacing the lower control arm bushingdunno what it's like working on a flathead though. i'd imagine spare/replacement parts would be a bitch?
>>28868980The AU XR6 vct with front and rear wishbones handled like it was on rails but it could be violent if you weren't on top of throttle through corners
colour me SHOCKED that the most autistic person to ever post on /o/ is an ausfag obsessed with the au falcooon.
that's the other AUposter, m8>t. first AUposter
>>28883958It's double wishbones on the front, retard. F1 technology.
>>28884773>make the control arms on a double wishbone car just as robust.imagine the unsprung mass...
>>28876291W124 4matic? Oh it fucking says it right there.Where's the upper arm??? I was pretty damn sure W124 had double wishies in the front.
>>28878579>mazda 3These used to have IRS, kek. Rather than soundproof they changed it for a torsion beam. Somewhat odd decision.Torsion beams are absolutely adequate for where they get used, though.
>>28879974>Audis double wishbone set up, which is excellent.Audi shit isn't double wishies it's a fucking 4 link multilink. Invented just to cope with the total shitness of longitudinal fwd fucked up weight distribution.
>>28868905>Could the government truly incentivize manufacturersThe government wants you in a remote controlled e-pod. Anything that increases your personal control and freedom is not in their interests so you get understeer, you don't get camber gain.
>>28871484Has absolutely nothing to do with travel.
>>28887653>corporations, by contrast, definitely wouldn't control you if you got rid of the government
>>28887620what is the diff between "4 link multilink" and double wishies?
>>28888475double wishbones have two control links, hence the name
>>28889291but aren't wishbones two sided and theres a lower and an upper control arm so it's four links regardless?
>>28889416two links
>>28868905it make car go down road the end
>>28889416>>288894184 links
>>28889418but anon they attach on both sides
>>28889422I bet the ride is much more comfortable than my McDonalds. I assume that setup is only for the larger more expensive ones like A6/Q7 on up.
>>28889456the two sides cannot move independently from one another
>>28889493oh
>>28878350Wait....So struts are bad because:>contact patch doesnt stay flat as suspension compressesBut also:>doesnt change camber when in turnsIts almost as though anti-strut fags dont understand suspension geometry and have no fucking clue what theyre talking about.
>>28868905>final solutionFind a better handling design that has equal or cheaper build cost and parts count for equal or better ride comfort.
>>28890556You're putting words in that anon's mouth to strawman him.Double wishbones camber negatively to keep the contact patch of the outside wheels maximized.Macphersons camber negatively for a brief moment then camber positively hard, decreasing the contact patch.Nobody said anything about a setup not changing camber in turns, you pulled that out of your ass.
>>28890572is camber negative turning up or down towards the center of the car?
Lol @ all the wrenchlets itt still shilling struts dude what the fuck. If you bought a rental car, just sell it.
>>28890598I can't afford anything better than mcdonalds!
>>28890595negative camber pushes the top of the wheel inboard. think of all those stancefag cars that have the wheels at extreme angles, that's negative camber
>>28890606so down
how come mcdonalds struts go faster than wishbones?
