How do we solve the tourist issues in western national parks?
>>2826640>touristsyou don’t live in the park either
>>2826654I live in Jackson, I'm a local.
>>2826640import more bears, ban cars
>>2826640Remove the parking lots, and plough the access roads.That'll save money, effectively limit access to those coming in in 4x4s, on bikes, horseback or foot. In otherwords, it'll remove most of those obese, "where's the nearest mcdonalds?" tourists.
>>2826640Really thought those were skinny ass prosthetic legs
>>2826640Get rid of 90% of the parking lots and require people to take a bus in. Get rid of established campgrounds except for one by the visitor center, you have to bring a backpack if you want to see the park. Shut down entrance to 1/3rd of National parks on a rotating 1 year basis to allow nature to heal in the parks every third year
>>2826695If you think nat parks need to heal, and if you think that means just letting them do their thing, just go to unmaintained state parks. There are a lot of those.
>>2826695If you think nat parks need to heal, and if you think that means just letting them do their thing, just go to unmaintained state and county parks. There are a lot of those.
>>2826640We don't have any National Parks here in Idaho specifically because we don't want any tourists. It's been working out pretty good so far..
>>2826737That's not correct, but you're a Bay Area transplant so I don't expect you to know anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwW2aAPAAZw
>>2826640>that plateFlorida Man is making his way out west, I see
>>2826737Instead you have massive national forests that are just as good.
>>2826743Luckily for them cheetahs are like the least threatening of all wild cats.
>>2826742If you think it's bad now think of how worse it would be if our state parks and wilderness areas were national parks.
>>2826820transplants are worse than tourists. one is there permanently, the other is there mainly during peak summer months in a rotating fashion.Transplants raise the cost of living, goods, and other utilities all over the state. Tourists only cause price issues around the NP resort towns, but they also generate a shit ton of revenue and jobs for the state. Transplants do not since most WFH anyway.
>>2826802Stop talking about Idaho.
>>2826827That's true. We ended up buying a house because it was cheaper than paying rent. Cost of living is out of control.
>>2826827I disagree with you. I saw what happened to my beloved Joshua Tree in 2014 after Instagram made the park famous. So many fucking retards from LA turned that quiet little park into their social media Disneyland. I get sick thinking about how I watched that park transform into a meme. I hope they never allow cell signal in that park
>>2826827>>2826956>>2826907You're all transplants you stupid faggots, guaranteed none of you have generational roots in the areas that go back more than 60 years and even then who the fuck cares - you're all fucking transplantsstupid faggots honestly
>>2826965Spoken like a true transplant
>>2826968unless your family is one of the few dozen who settled the area (as transplants) you are undoubtedly a transplant, probably second generation who considers themselves native lmao it takes 5 generations of a plant going somewhere before we call it native
>>2826973>before we call it native>weYou're a transplant, shut the fuck up
>>2826975yeah you're definitely butthurt about being called out, let me guess your parents or grandparents moved there after the 60s? Lmao the chinese people who built the railroad there 150+ years ago are more native than you
>>2826976Speak for yourself
>>2826977not even some great grandparents to brag about? Don't tell me you're literally second generation trying to talk shit on Americans coming to your empty states being flooded by actual non american immigrants? lmao you're such a bitch, bet you go into a seething frothing rage every time you see a californian plate
>>2826965I have family that's lived in Idaho for about 100 years now. I grew up in San Diego but we moved to Idaho to be with family after SD got too expensive. Yes I'm a transplant but we wouldn't have moved here if we didn't have family here.
>>2826979Get off my continent. Your California plates have even infected my east coast backwater >t. family hopped of the boat in 1634 and never left St. Mary's County
Ban non-citizens. It's not an absolute cure but will drop the crowd sizes enough that many of these issues can be addressed.
Remove roads and vehicle access. Every park should have a 10 mile hike at a minimum to the entrance point.
>>2826640You don't.
Privatize the lands, give it to state owned companies like what the USDA does with the Dairy Management Inc but for national parks
>>2827331Get mental help, Mike Lee. you're never getting the land back to give away to oil companies.
>>2826890The secret has been out for a long time man. Population is booming there. Prepare for Idaho and Montana to be the new Texas someday
>>2826640send all floridians to death camps
>>2827466It'll never be the new Texas when more than half the roads close during winter, and in the case of Idaho your own state government is hostile towards its own people.
>>2826640Shoot trespassers.
>>2827466It's already the new California. Me and other Californians have moved in and we make sure to vote yes for every tax increase proposal. If the locals get priced out, too bad. They should have made better life decisions. This is our home now.
>>2826640There's nothing to solve. The system is working as designed.
>>2826640National parks, particularly where there are roads and parking lots, are containment areas for tourists. They are functioning exactly as intended.
>>2829747Containment areas aren't a thing.
>>2829747>National parks, particularly where there are roads and parking lotsSo literally every national park then? The entire point of national parks compared to national forests is that they are accessible for the most part. The only real exception to that are ones in Alaska or select few in the lower 48 where they do bussing due to overcrowding.
>>2832277Dry Tortugas and Gates of the Arctic have no roads. Checkmate, larpers.
>>2826661>t. has never gone outside ever
If you've never been to glacier, unless you are camping in one of the other glacier vallies the main park is just this 60 mile long road that goes from the biggest glacier valley on the east to the west. And for 50 miles of this road it is just barely big enough for 2 f350s to fit through. Tourist nature is super gay anywhere but if amplifies on a road meant for at max 2 no matter who blows a tire or sees a bear. And guess what happens when 2 assholes across from each other see a bear?There are pullouts. There are some shoulders. But this park just amplifies it by the lack of any other way around once 2 Chinese tourists are blocking the whole road. I saw a whole family of grizzlies just walking around on the other side of a valley from me this year in southeast glacier.
>>2826640even LESS touristseven MORE lotterydrop walk-in permits whatsoever. they only bother rangers and attract cars.
>>2832439The many glacier slots make it obvious if you have ever been there. They give out 45 slots per hour. There are 90+ cars ready to go at 7am. It's literally up to Indian bitch niggerrs to kick them off.
invite saars
>>2826640what's up with those fucking socks. red flags everywhere here.
>>2826965lel one of the only attempts to argue against this was someone who moved from california
>>2832492Maybe that's what passes for "fashion" in Florida
>>2832273>there was no reply KEK
>try to go for a hike today>miles deep in the mountains>pass at least a hundred people on the trailJesus fucking christI get less crowds on city fucking streetsPeople are RUINING the outdoors
>>2835130No you didn't you fucking faggot
>>2826658>ban cars.THIS.
>>2826640>People are enjoying nature exactly as intended>This is a problem because CEO of Autism doesn't like itJust take a couple 9mm painkillers to your dome.
>>2826640>close the National Parks>sell the land to developers>pay off the National Debt with the proceedsYou're welcome.
>>2835156Yes I did you fucking faggot
>>2835130Anon. You under that (You) are the tourist, right? You are the tourist clogging the trail, the one you whine about.
>>2835156I think this Anon is correct. You’re a liar and, by extension, irredeemably gay.
>>2832277I think he meant the areas that have roads and parking lots. Get a few miles from there and the crowds thin out or disappear.
>>2826640
>>2826640National Parks are tourist containment zones, National Forests are where the white man recreates.
>>2838762Again, containment zones aren't a thing.
>>2826965Fuck you nigger my family has been in Nashville since it was called French lick. I watched californians move in, bulldoze all the old neighborhoods for shitty cheap high rise apartments, cause massive price increases, clog traffic, and the worst of all is the flood of illegals and hobos they brought with them. in only 15 years my city has become unrecognizable, fuck you.
The problem with tourists is that if you are a local person or someone who wants to just go to wilderness. Meeting people gets your being out of wilderness and hermitism or old memories and places yiu in a social conformation activity.You can't have any sense of the nature if there are a new group of people any half hour you have to say hi.
national parks are decoys to distract foreigners and cityslickers from the real attractions at national forests and other public lands
>>2838779Californians don't move en masse to Tennessee. They swarm Colorado, Texas, Oregon, Montana, Idaho.
>>2826737No, just transplants shitting up bogus and ICStanley is the only safe town left
As I see it, it probably really is good for the soul to be a tourist, even if it’s only once in a while. Not good for the soul in a refreshing or enlivening way, though, but rather in a grim, steely-eyed, let’s-look-honestly-at-the-facts-and-find-some-way-to-deal-with-them way. My personal experience has not been that traveling around the country is broadening or relaxing, or that radical changes in place and context have a salutary effect, but rather that intranational tourism is radically constricting, and humbling in the hardest way—hostile to my fantasy of being a real individual, of living somehow outside and above it all. To be a mass tourist, for me, is to become a pure late-date American: alien, ignorant, greedy for something you cannot ever have, disappointed in a way you can never admit. It is to spoil, by way of sheer ontology, the very unspoiledness you are there to experience. It is to impose yourself on places that in all noneconomic ways would be better, realer, without you. It is, in lines and gridlock and transaction after transaction, to confront a dimension of yourself that is as inescapable as it is painful: As a tourist, you become economically significant but existentially loathsome, an insect on a dead thing.-David Foster Wallace
>>2826956I worked in the Chisos Basin in Big Bend N.P. when they installed a cell phone tower there. Fucking globohomo. It ruined the place. Instead of all of us hanging out together in the evening, drinking and smoking and having a little music jam, everyone started staying in their rooms playing vidya or scrolling on their phones like NPCs everywhere else. It ruined the place. >>2827251Shuttle buses should be the only vehicles allowed inside national parks. If you don't want to ride a bus, you can rent an e-bike.
>>2840082/thread
>>2826655>t. billionaire
>>2826965Die trash. My family has been in my state for 5 generations.
>>2826640Close the border, deport migrants, depopulate the country until it returns to 1970s demographics.This doesn't just solve "tourist issues", it solves every problem in every Western nation - lowers crime, improves public services, lowers taxes, improves education, improves the economy, empties the prisons, improves traffic, saves the environment, lowers emissions, lowers unemployment, increases wages, reduces rapes, improves water supply. Even things like litter or graffiti will go down.We don't have to live like this.
>>2842919>depopulate the country until it returns to 1970s demographics>remove 125 million peoplefuck off retard.
>>2826640>Grand Tetonkék
>ban whores and tiktok brain losers from posting pics of national parks on instagram>especially selfies where they make the heart shape with their hands>everyone stops going
>>2826654based retard
>>2842926Not remove. Kill.We will kill them all. And you too.
>>2826640i think this is a self-solving issue.i saw a guy at yellowstone standing near a bison. unfathomable
>>2845356
>>2843128>ban people who I disagree with
>>2826661They close the inner park road in winter and it becomes an amazing cross country skiing trail.
>>2826737Craters of the Moon, it’s a national monument but that’s still the Park Service
>>2845356>And you tooWhy don't you try, you fucking illuminati wannabe?
>>2845750>Craters of the Moon, it’s a national monument but that’s still the Park ServiceMonuments/reserves/forests/etc. don't have a fraction of the cachet of National Parks, not even federal wilderness areas. The fucking Statue of Liberty is a National Monument.
>>2845753It’s a meaningless designation, they’re run by the same agency the same way
Big problem in my jurisdiction, classic dilemma of the commons. Local access vs. Tourist access, local jobs vs tourism revenue, conservation vs development. These parties will always be at war, nobody will accept a middle ground because it's a power struggle. One jurisdiction just banned tourism entirely on environmental grounds which caused a local revolt, another established a ticketing system which prevented locals accessing parks but let millions of tourists with season tickets in. One spent half the municipal budget on Park infrastructure to develop it into glampsights, charging more than ordinary campers could afford. Another was trashed by bums who shat all over the ground and left tons of half buried litter everywhere.
I think the main solution is the jurisdictional fighting over boundaries, whether things are developed within, or outside the park. The tourism revenue goes mostly to the municipality, through shops, businesses, so amenities immediately outside the parks can be built sensibly to service the park. No bullshit eco-builds in park areas where there's no vehicle access. And then you designate high, medium, low density areas of the park, so that animals can generally hang out in the preserve areas. The high traffick areas are basically a day walk loop around parts of the park which all have road access, a human conveyor belt of day hikers. The medium traffic areas can be reached fairly easily but don't "go" anywhere. So for bird watchers, campers.It's often good design to make a handcuff shaped path so you get two day loops on either end, four paths, but only two entry points. This means that you can strategically close one and make the trail one-way in off peak season. And you want to avoid people exiting and entering at the same time, which is a key reason to make the number of stops on the trail Asymetrical, this also means there's more places for through hikers to stop towards the end, in off season.
>>2826654Not him but i'm a western park ranger and live in one (not the interpretive kind).>>2826640Tourists will always be retarded. I could rant for hours about the dumb shit I deal with. Even yesterday was fucking shitty with some retarded hippie I had to remove.Short answer is that there is no fixing it. Humans will always be idiots.Education would work if anyone cared or paid attention. I think instilling respect would also help. In the 70's the anti-pollution campaigns in the USA actually did a lot of work and I wish we'd bring it back. Right now one of the big campaigns is "be bear aware."Making a park less accessible helps. I wish people knew the difference between a national park and national forest/wildland. If you want freedom, to harvest, hunt, or fuck around, go to a national forest. If you want to just hike and enjoy nature, maybe camp, go to a park.God I fucking hate so many people. Littering, poaching, dogs off leash in wildlife areas, not following rules on signs, trying to build a little shelter in the woods because you think I won't come down and tear it up and you wanna larp as ted, etc.I really hate people who come strapped for bear and refuse to realize that bear spray works better. Especially if they try and bait a bear to attack them so they can think they acted in self defense when they put themselves in danger. Like fuck. Some of those retards will provoke a bear like a white guy sitting outside a hood gas station and shouting nigger then act surprised when shit goes south.
>>2847576>Making a park less accessible helps. I wish people knew the difference between a national park and national forest/wildland. If you want freedom, to harvest, hunt, or fuck around, go to a national forest. If you want to just hike and enjoy nature, maybe camp, go to a park.This is why I like the DYOR mentality of National Forest, the lack of infrastructure and advertising campaigns keeps enough people out until it inevitably ends up on social media.
>>2840152I like this quote but if he hadn't killed himself someone else would have if they were stuck in a car with him for more than 3 hours.
