Ultralight hikers are the biggest joke on the mountain. They roll up bragging like they’re the elite of the outdoors because they shaved 200 grams off their kit at the cost of thousands of dollars, but really, they’re just trust-fund babies playing wilderness cosplay. Every sentence out of their mouth starts with “my base weight is…” as if anyone cares. They obsess over spreadsheets and gram counts like they’re planning a moon landing, but then forget the basics: no first aid kit, no proper knife, not even a damn multi-tool. They’re the ones asking to borrow your lighter, your tape, your stove, basically turning everyone else into their personal gear supplier while pretending they’re hardcore minimalists.And let’s be real: these people don’t actually hike. They wander just far enough to snap a staged Instagram pic of their titanium spork and their $600 ultralight tarp pitched at a bad angle, then head back to town to sip craft beer and write a self-congratulatory blog post about how they’re “living simply.” They’re allergic to actual dirt, rain, or effort. The only thing ultralight about them is their personality.The worst part? They’re always the ones Search and Rescue has to haul out because they thought a space blanket, two protein bars, and a selfie stick counted as survival gear. Meanwhile, the people with “heavy” packs are the ones who have to hand over their food, tent pegs, rope etc. Ultralight hikers aren’t minimalist pioneers they’re freeloading disasters waiting to happen, more concerned with clout than competence. Strip away the Instagram filters and the $500 shoes, and you’re left with what they really are: clueless posers cosplaying adventurers, desperate for likes while everyone else carries their dead weight.
>>2842126i'm simultaneously annoyed and concerned. annoyed because this sounds like something AI would write, and concerned because it sounds like something I would write.
>>2842129Not sure if OP used AI but I put in a generic "What do you think of ultralight hikers?" and it came back with something similar, I guess even AI hates Ultralight fags.
Runners - CheckUltralight pack - CheckHiking poles - CheckWater bottle from the servo - CheckGetting Air lifted of a gradual slope - Checkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfSC0_S4wGE
>>2842126This reads like a bait post but for who lol, ultralight dudes are fags.I swear everytime I go hiking it's the same convo with at least one person. >what's your baseweight? "I don't know, not too heavy I guess" >*smug look* oh well that's OK, but when you get to the point where you do 15+ miles per day you really start having to take weight into consideration. Also you should look into Altra trail runners they're zero drop blah blah blah "Awesome well I did 30 miles yesterday and I'm doing 20+ for the next 4 days. My boots are also zero drop, thanks though"Every one of these people had the same reddit university approved kit and an absolutely twinkpilled physique.
>>2842131it's entirely reasonable. i have to live in the Bay Area so i fully agree with every sentiment expressed. i just hate how it's written, it's like suddenly realizing how annoying you are.
Thankfully I'm seeing a lot of u-tubers reverting back to the "old ways" of hiking. Canvas, Boots, Cast iron etc. Maybe its the toxic mentality of ultra lighters, or just the realization of 'More Dollars doesn't equal a better time". Lets be real. Ultralight's have always been more obsessed about the dollar value of their kit and brand names. And their constant criticism of other peoples gear has been a barrier for a lot of hikers who feel like they are doing it wrong. The only real comment they have is "Lol just stop being poor".Lol, just stop being so weak.
>>2842140>bringing cast iron cookware on long distance hikesLolwutJust because you dont wanna be an ultralight retard doesn't mean you have to go full retard in the other direction
>>2842152Take the HobbitPill. But in all seriousness, No-one ever said anything about "long distance". Ultralight fags no no bounds. An overnighter, 2 day, 3 day, Canoe trip. Thier faggotry know no bounds.
>>2842133>Hiking polesYou leave hiking poles out of this
>>2842126>no first aid kit, no proper knife, not even a damn multi-tool.Tim and Renee don't take towels nor toilet paper. ew. also cold-soaked meals because muh stove weight. lol.
>>2842135Youre entire post reeks of reddit holy fuck go back
>>2842126>trust fund babies>be me>neet>low class family>still managed to save up for gucci camping gear
>>2842175The money argument is the one I get the least, the most overpriced /out/ gear is the heavy boomer garbage. DCF tents and the super UL quilts are expensive but that's about it. It's trivial to build a <10lb baseweight kit for under $1k nowadays.
Anon calls us a joke meanwhile this is what he looks like coming down the trail. Heavyfag lol. Probably don't have a trail name either because nobody likes you
>>2842334Hey my trail name is 10 ton John.
>imagine not stimulating your bone density and strength by (over)loading your pack with heavy nice-to-haves in order to do weight-baring exercise while /out/Its true.
>>2842264Yeah, and a lot of ultralight stuff isn’t just luxury branding. Ever try to make your own quilt? It’s technically easy; the actual sewing isn’t very hard. But it’s time consuming because there’s a ton of long, straight lines. It can be done at home, but anyone who’s made a large project (hammock, tent, tarp, etc.) will tell you that it’s a pin if you don’t have a dedicated work area. Plus the materials are really expensive. 850 goose down is probably half the cost of a quilt. DCF as well. Both of these are also hard to work with. DCF is just a bit harder than 15D polyester (maybe not harder but certainly different) and down is going to get everywhere if you don’t have a plan.t. DYI Chad
>>2842126holy mother of chatgpt
>>2842126Reminds me of the faggot that didn’t know what a day pack was and went on some LARP ramble about spine damage and fucking uncontacted natives
>>2842334>Trail namesGod I fucking hate hippies
>>2842474It’s more of an NPC thing. As a fully formed human, with an entire gambit of emotions, experiences, and internal thoughts, the idea of a new identity isn’t appealing to me. But for someone’s who’s a blank slate it makes perfect sense.
>>2842161kek you're alright anon
>spend a decade in the light infantry, lugging 90+lbs on my back plus weapon and kit all over god's creation for miles and miles>get out of the Army and decide to try backpacking>buy lightweight stuff because I hated carrying a goddamn boulder's worth of weight on my back while moving at a breakneck pace because it gave sergeants major a boner>spergs on 4chan call me a faggotthere's no winning
>>2842575Don't despair anon, the people lugging more than 20lbs for an overnight are just coping with their poor gear purchasing decisions
>>2842133my favorite part was the rescuer setting down and just walking up to her. didn't look steep at all. lmao
>>2842334
>>2842126Bro why are you mad that some of us don't need to pack some fucking tampons you sound like a woman.
>>2842582This should include something along the lines of "has strong bone density due to pack weight"
>>2842575Sounds like it's not your entire personality and interest in the outdoors so no one's calling you out.
>>2842126We are living in a golden age of camping gear with massive market changes, material innovations, and access to traditional gear. Why don't you just pick what you like? I don't UL, but I've bought lighter gear and am happy for it>BagGossamer Gear Marisposa in purple (shits tight) ~ 2l s>TentRei flash air 2/hubba hubba nx/tarptent1lb ~ 3lbThe. I just mix and match. I use gas stoves, alcohol stoves, I bring Vaseline fire starters cause they're cheap and easy to make. My water setup was $20 6 years ago, and I use walking poles for my tent. With this basic setup I typically blitz most everyone on trails and am always comfy and able to get food going or nice setup when people are crashing out. I really don't understand why people are so mad about what you carry outside lmao
I thought mountain bikers were the cyclists of the trails tho..
>>2842126ur a fag
Im a full sized man and carry 60+ lbs everywhere I goHobo/OutdoorsmanI dare an ultralight fag to try and cross utah because I dragged a cargo trailer loaded with water in order to do it and something tells me that isnt ultralight
>>2842126>Ultralight hikers are the biggest joke on the mountain. They roll up bragging like they’re the elite of the outdoors because they shaved 200 grams off their kit at the cost of thousands of dollarsTl:dr after above. You can apply your standard of poor fag cope/sour grapes to cars, too can't you? >anything that looks nice or goes fast is not really neededFuck off, poorfag.
>>2842731Its crazy to use expensive things in americayou want to get robbed?
>>2842816You want to get shot?
>>2842820everyone gets caught lackin' eventually my nigga
>>2842506Nobody remembers a John or Bob or Timmy. Trail names are unique and easily identifiable
>>2842126>Dasani bottleWhat is even the point of nature walks if you just drink out of plastic? I agree with you OP it seems tragic they are turning the whole thing into ' achievement gathering ' just go enjoy yourself. No one is impressed. I'd rather have tons of gear and make a meal and sleep warmly while taking photos with a tripod than do a second on this nonsense.
>>2842474Your trail name is Bitter roots.
>>2842126Why would you want to suffer less? What the fuck
>>2842126At the same time, not everyone has the kind of cash that you'd have to have to completely fill the 100L/80+20 bags that are hitting the market. So why not lump in the people who aren't making full use of their equipment while you're at it? Sheesh. Some people don't need camp stoves to cook, some can get by with firestarting skills y'know... I'm not sure shitting on the ultralights is a fair criticism here.
Some of my gear is ultralight so I can carry more stuff with me
>>2842133it's weird how almost none of the comments point out how ridicolous the situation is, on the contrary most are acting like she was stuck on the "thank god" ledge on the Half Dome or something.And she was doing the PCT lmao
>>2842126niggas bringing the whole house with em lmao. Fuck off faggot.
Found out that its not the weight in ultralight I love, but rather the minimalism, which goes well with the traditionalism im going for.
Kek. When I go out I take what I need AND what I want. Pack is usually over 25kg and that's fine with me. Still get good miles. Hills and mountains will be tough regardless, I prefer to eat well and have a choice of clothing and kit. Slway carry a little extra water because you never know. Soaps, dish liquid, flannel, spare shoes etc. And good food, not shitty dehydrated slop. Avocado, mango, treats as well as normal food. I'd prefer to be ready for everything and have comfort items than an autistic over pampered geek obsessed with a single statistic. Only issue is knees but walking poles solve that.
Imagine being physically weak.I do not even register anything below 80lbs.>I commute by bicycle to a hard manual labor job>I love it>It's not even hard enough for meI can curl with one arm almost 100lbs and I'm 170lbs and 6ft.The pack you have trouble picking up, I can throw across a whole ass river.
I went on a 7 day canoe portaging trip. my backpack including 4L of water was 68lb.everyone told me i overpacked and was too heavy, they all had like 45lb including some ultralight tent.i brought a costco hammock with no flyi did overpack and brought items i never used, mainly clothing. i think i had like an underware per day and twice as many socks. i used less than half.but yeah, i was fucking comfy. the hammock was the best sleep ever, i had 2 wool blankets whle the rest were sporing their $400 down sleeping bags. lol. and i had a real camping chair with backsupport.
>>2843103Being weak is truly terrible, anon. Have you ever been weak? I just recovered from some extensive injuries and being a weak, physically incapable cripple is an eye opening experience. Normally I am physically dominant in every space I'm in.
>>2843111Ironically I have a super fucked neck that I must overcome daily
>>2843109>portaging anon is back to talk about ULCan't you just drown in a river already?
>>2843103Post physique
>>2843009Cameras don't do a good job communicating steepness. That slope looks shitty and loose. Not saying she wasn't overreacting but still, it doesn't look like a spot you could just stand up on to me. t. scrambles class 3 and 4 in an area with lots of shitty choss. I much prefer stable rock with lots of exposure to stuff that looks like this.
>>2843188No.
>>2843193Fat
>>2843125Lord of the Rings is make believe
>>2842506It’s a faggot thing is what it is>>2842923My trail name is fuck your motherfucker turbofaggot
>>2843332Wowzers I can see your penor! xD
>>2842133>can't drop her phone or put it awayHow?
>>2842582having a big bag just means you essentially are T-posing on the trail. ultra lighters are crushed by the sheer weight of your very being.
ITT: Full-grown, autistic man(?) shadowboxing with his boogeyman
>>2842126TrailName Ninjaface AT 2008 and 2015.Plus a plethora of other Trails I don't need the name..Ultralight fags are weak physically. They lack the muscles. I'm 50 years old just did the four-state challenge with the 32lb pack just for the fuck of it ...
>>2842153How the hell does Sam take off his pack if the shoulder straps slit through the cloak
>>2844256So it's not just me. I'm fat, but grew up in the mountains. They go by fast on easy trail, but scree, talus and boulders seem to even things up fast. I think half of it is just runners getting on trail without having the experience to face bad terrain. For light build, my respect goes to the climbers.
I don't get it. There's just so much more important shit to worry about than how heavy someone I'll never talk to's backpack is.
>>2844332I'm a gun guy and you have the same problem with EDC and other stuff. Numbers. You have an activity that most folks would like to do more of but can't because they're stuck at work, so instead you spend a lot of time on Chinese Whatsapp knockoffs arguing about numbers. UL really isn't much more than minimalism and gearfagging coming together.
>>2844332QUANTIFY YOUR WORTH FOR ME RIGHT NOW!
>>284212615 years ago i fell for the ultralight meme. had a cool little backpack that had a zip pocket sewn inside that you could stuff the pack into.well i cut the pocket out to save grams, killing a cool feature.meanwhile, i was 50 pounds overweight.the only cool things i still use from my UL days is a snowpeak titanium mug, a caldera cone alcohol stove, a big agnes copper spur 2-man, and a golite 1-season quilt (which is perfect 6 months a year in socal).
>>2844431Ya, copper spur is a damn fine tent; just did a wind storm on a Mt Shuksan approach hike and stayed comfy. IMO all the gearfag money burning is a service to others; we have pretty close to what original UL goal weights were a decade ago for no greater cost than mediocre gear.
>>2843326You're the guy in his tent at camp when everyone else is at the picnic tables making dinner and socializing. If someone gave me a real name on trail I'd automatically know avoid this fucking weirdo
>>2844558Turbo normie or average AT hiker?
>>2844558>I'd automatically know avoid this fucking weirdoPreferable. If I want to socialize outdoors I go on a camping trip with my friends and family. I don't need a bunch of hippies giving me a nickname.
>>2844431I mean that's about 70% of the gear. Leave extras behind and that's basically ultralight again at least as far as normal people.>>2844451The best part of light, packable gear is never having to leave things behind or having more room for fun stuff.>>2844558If I'm out to hike more than camp, hiker midnight is a thing.
I need to cut weight so I can carry a 24pack of beer with me
>>2844558>socializing
Bodybuilders get knee and spine issues from lugging around extra muscle mass beyond their natural weight, so do fatasses.Human body is very finely tuned for walking with its optimal BMI. Add more than, say, 10% of that weight and you're setting yourself up for grinding cartilage, inflamed joints, etc. Add uneven terrain and massive torque from any slip, plus the fatigue increasing your chances of fucking up, and the imbalance and weird posture from a huge sack hanging off you (boys, I'm talking about a different sack) and you're quickly going to learn why old people often hang up their hiking packs despite wishing they could get out there.Pack light, keep it simple. Lighter gear doesn't have to be expensive and taking scissors to your kit is free.
Generally I find the most truly UL guys didn't spend much money and instead got creative, hardened up and lowered their needs. The UL gear industry is just like any other consumerist trap, no one forces you to open your wallet, it's optional, but UL itself is an ethos shared by ascetics, pragmatists, the destitute, the monastic, engineers who want to go further, faster and longer and carry more food and water. >Thru hiker : spoon made from bark, ziplock baggie of oats, salvaged and chopped up gear.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkzggN8OBlE>Nimblewood Nomad - a very old UL hiker. Fast food joint spoon, $1 disposable poncho, simple nylon sack, gatorade bottlehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAx-PA_r0SAIt's not $$$, it's attitude and priorities. A monk with a robe bowl but a little more independent. Denigrating UL dudes with >muh $$$ sounds like deflection from fixin your learned helplessness
>>2844875everytime man, these ultralight guys are literally 5 foot zero 80lbs of course they can run such a small bag when they don't bring a proper shelter and 800 calories a day. if I eat less then 2000 calories a day hiking i'm wasting hard and my body is eating away muscle.
>>2844891>proper shelteryeah, the tarp-only thing is not practical even in all 3 season environments, but a shaped tarp like a trailstar or pyramid will do you through most winter locales. Inner tent adds warmth sure but most UL kits aren't for winter use.>caloriesYeah, I'm 6'2" and need about 5-6kcal a day on a 30 mile day over rough terrain. Bigger extension collar on your backpack, pack more food, doesn't change the gear. You burn more calories lugging heavier kit, need more food for recovery, and go slower so need more food for more days between resupply.Yeah, taller guys need longer shelters, bigger clothes and sleeping bags etc. Doesn't change the UL ascetic ethos
>>2844891>if I eat less then 2000 calories a day hiking i'm wasting hard and my body is eating away muscle.This is total bullshit btw. It might FEEL that bad, but that probably means you're exerting yourself too hard (only at lower intensities can the body use your stored fat). Or you just are a baby. Same to you >>2844911Granted there is nothing wrong with eating that much, in fact it's good to be able to replenish while hiking, but you aren't famine victims and you have the body fat to go more than a day or too at a serious deficit.
>>2844935look I understand 2000 calories probably seems like a lot to you but i'm under 25bmi and I burn that if I lay in bed all day you just don't understand what its like to be 6'4"
>>2844966i just said i burn 5-6 thousand calories per day on my hikes, maybe you need to eat more for your cognition and reading comprehension
>>2844984I think you are the one that got lost in this conversation anon. I say that as a lurker that hasn't been part of it. You just called out an anon on your side after he called out a shitter.
Good thread. Good insights. OP is completely full of shit and made up an enemy in his mind. Sad.
>>2844987You're right, whoops. I apologise >>2844966
Going light-weight is always a good idea, the trouble starts when people cut their toothbrush in half, removed tags from clothing, even met a guy who peeled the labels off his water bottles to save weight
>>2845235I do this. A nice tip I learned is to drill holes in your metal spoons and such.
>>2844966All I'm saying is you have a long ways to go before your body eats up your muscle or you start "wasting." At 25bmi you got plenty of chub to spare on a backpacking trip. You don't have to worry about calories until you're doing a major thru hike.
>>2845236holes hold on to food, cut the spoon as short as your pot (+ a couple mm so you can wedge it for no rattle). Grind off the sides of the handle, you just need the thin concave centre>>2845235No trouble there, those are easy mods you can do while you're resting on a hike. Here's some of my favourites:- cut backpack webbing to your size, leave a little extra for winter layers- cut off unnecessary parts of your pack. Don't need that daisy chain, hipbelt pockets, extra ice axe loop, heavy trekking pole retention, alternative buckle configs, water bladder retention, zip? Chances are you won't miss them.- Bevel the corners of your foam mat. Hell, cut it to hip length and use a thinner one + clothes and pack under your legs- Replace heavy backpack hardware and webbing with cord knots. I use prussik knots and cord in lieu of compression straps and drawstring toggles.- Swap your headlamp strap for a sturdy elastic band with a toggle.- Whittle away your knife handle if it's wood or plastic- Ditch drysacks for turkey roasting bags or plastic grocery bags, twist the top and chuck something on top to weigh it down- Carry alcohol fuel in a mylar pouch (e.g. those protein yoghurt drinks or toddler paste slop meal pouches)Turn it into a game of optimization and it's pretty fun if you're wired that way
>>2842126you are allowed to say 'faggots'.
>>2842126They dont even bring egg crates to eat 5 dozen eggs a day
>>2845236You are a total lunatic, my friend.
>>2845235I cut my toothbrush so it fits into a quart bag easier.>>2845237This technically correct but only if you treat backpacking like a weight loss endeavor or never plan on more than a weekender with mild goals. In high output exercise of you want to go hard and keep going, you're going to need calories. You can go full tilt looking into macros but in the end you need fuel during and after. (You being the royal 'yous'). You can even see the difference on a basic workout if you have eaten properly and hydrated beforehand.>>2845247Some of these are actually practical. Feels like well-crafted bait.
>>2845273>Feels like well-crafted bait.I'm 100% for real
>>2845247This is neurotic.
>>2845784Gear optimising one of the things I think about when I'm walking for several weeks to monthsFor weekenders? Yeah lol
>>2845983Do you feel that it pays off in that it allows you to pack extras? Like if I am shaving everything down, do you now carry a 4.5lb titanium stove too? Because that would be the advantage of it for me. Being able to carry more things for less weight.
>>2846035Good question. I can think of 4 main benefits>Faster to pack, make / break camp because there's less stuff and the stuff is smaller and simpler. Also brings simplicity, less things to keep track of. High speed low drag if you want a /k/ism, but this is more for long hikes with a short sleep, not bushcraft etc where you'll have a lot more time to improvise a firelit camp and need a lot less kit.>By obsessing over and cutting up shit I understand it better and become less attached to each piece of gear - I could probably repair and improvise a replacement for quite a lot more of my kit than if I'd never gotten neurotic over it. Being brutal with what I carry has made me look into skills - for instance, what do I do if I lose something, how does my layering system work and emergency drills if I get wet and cold, dehydrated, injured etc. >Smaller volume = I am more manouvreable, weight closer to back.>Allows me to carry more food. Or the same weight of food but go further or faster because lower calorie cost.
>>2846035So yeah, you could add more stuff if you get rid of it, but that's not really my aim as it's a slippery slope to too much redundancy and being overprepared. Example would be carrying a hammock and a tent, or a knife, scissors and razor.Titanium stove - have a look at Caldera Cones or the budget option, Captain Paranoia's DIY cone calculator. You can make an extremely light and low volume twig stove that doubles as a great alcohol stove windshield for not much money. Chuck a kojin/starlyte stove or diy drinks can/ penny stove in for a few more grams, with a mini mouthwash bottle or flexible mylar baby food pouch and you're covered for 2 types of fuel.
You should have just posted a basedjak and been done with it
>>2842126>but then forget the basics: no first aid kit, no proper knife, not even a damn multi-toolNo spare clothes.No spare / backup food.No contingency plan if a trail is blocked or if rivers become flooded.No paper map.
>>2846063I carry all of these except for spare clothes and I'm still <10lbs base weight (in the summer at least).
>>2846063>no first aid kitNot true, easy to take a few days of pills, vial of sterilising fluid, sports cap for irrigating, superglue for cuts, leukotape, thread, tick tweezers, needles, cut up clothes for dressing, duct tape and cord for a splint, strap with windlass if you really think a tourniquet will do any good innawoods. All for way under 100g.>no proper knifeEsee izula or similar for 50g. But what for? I can snap up branches for firewood. I can take a small opinel for feathersticks, hard cheeses and meat. I won't be processing big game, and I'll take a trekking pole with metal tip over a knife for trail defense.>not even a damn multi-toolLeatherman squirt or style with the unnecessary parts removed, IF you will ever actually need it (again, what for?). I'd only take one if I had snow shoes that might need fixing.>paper mapThey're a few 10s of grams? I'll take one depending on the route. Might cut it down if it's bulky or print my own and waterproof it.>No spare foodOkay, you got me. If I'm doing 5 days between resupplies sometimes I'll run a bit low if I take a rest day or mess up calorie calculations when shopping. But that's easily fixed when you have more space>No contingency plan if a trail is blocked or river floodsWhat has that got to do with your backpack and lighter stuff?
>>2846198lmao how are you gonna defend yourself with a carbon or aluminum hiking pole they'll just let you "stab" them, you probably won't even break the skin and they'll just pull your weapon in.
>>2842129It reads like ai response structure>and the worst part?
>>2846213it's not necessarily wrong but clearly is chatgpt>>2846212are you envisioning fighting strangers on the trail? they would just shoot you before even letting you react. you should just not go outside
>>2846232>and I'll take a trekking pole with metal tip over a knife for trail defense.I'm saying this is stupid and a proper knife of like 200mm length minimum that can be used to baton wood safely is a much better weapon to defend yourself against animals or people. inb4 just bring a gun, I don't live in the US its illegal to carry a gun unless I can prove i'm hunting something at that specific moment.
>>2846212Have you ever heard of a spear, or for that matter a sharp stick? I could thrash foliage to scare off stuff, and probably put my trekking pole through a rabid dog's neck or eye socket and maybe even its skull if I had to, and give any thieves a very nasty poke or a big whack. That's the biggest risk where I hike.
>>2844558Queer
>>2846282so you think i'm fantasizing about defending myself with a knife, but your gonna hit someone in the eye socket with the point of your trekking pole? also if your being cornered by an actual predator aka a cougar or grizzly bear you are generally beyond the point of scaring it away. its clear to me you do groomed day hikes around your cities extended region
>>2846251Batoning wood is a meme that needs to die. Cracking a dry stick open is something I guess but carrying a 7in knife will go to waste unless you a camping to bushcraft with a knife on purpose. Bring a hatchet if you want to split wood. Also this knife would be a pretty useless self defense tool compared to a small handgun.>>2846334You're both wrong but you are more wrong than >>2846282Part of cutting weight is by necessity trading gear for technique. Sometimes you still have to carry stuff (bear spray and vault for example), sometimes you just have to acknowledge your goals. If you want to hang at camp and chill for 4 hrs before bed, yes ultralighting is not the way.
>>2844251*his mere existence confuses and enrages the ultrafag*
>>2842575Is army gear really that heavy? I tried hiking one week with my dad's alice/korean ruck that he got from my grandpa and it really wasn't that bad (i assume the more modern gears would be better designed and lighter)
