Is there anything I should know to deal with winter conditions hiking? I've never been hiking with a significant amount of snow or ice, but am planning to do some in January in the Appalachians around VA, WV, MD, and/or PA.
you will need yak trax or micro spikes for your bootsrecommend a balaclavaI guess snowshoes if its deep snow but that's not super likely but you are gonna go really slowly if there's more than a few inches of snow or you are meandering around iceelleber knob is open until the end of Feb (gate) and you can drive right to the top if you have proper tires and 4wd
>>2854663Thanks, I'll be getting some microspikes and already have a balaclava. Are poles a good idea?
>>2854662Microspikes are fantastic. I've heard that Hillsounds have a more aggressive treat but they're also prone to balling more than Kahtoolas, I've only used Kahtoola so I can't speak on other brands from personal experience. Snowshoes are also extremely helpful, and it's considerate to other hikers to wear them instead of cratering the trail with postholes. Modern snowshoes aren't very heavy either, just make sure you get ones with the heel lifter bar for going uphill. I think some parts of the Appalachians require snowshoes if there's more than a few inches of snow on the ground.>Is there anything I should know to deal with winter conditions hiking?It's paradise. The stakes are somewhat higher than summer hiking, so use your better judgement and if the weather is hairy stay below the treeline. Days are much shorter, you absolutely need to have a light source and start earlier than in the summer. It's important to stay dry, don't overdress and sweat; bring an extra base and mid layer in case though.
>>2854664Depends do you like falling or not? Do you like making your legs do all of the work?
>>2854664yes, I like mine from Diorite Gear with the cork tops. Expensive, but worth it. That said, you can do stuff without them if you have waterproof gloves. You can also just get Chinesium ones, but the quality ones are nicer, more sturdy. I found that spikes were too cumbersome so I use yak trax instead.
>>2854668Thanks, I'll look at some poles, but probably hold off on getting them for now.
>>2854666Thanks, I'll look at Hillsound and Kahtoola. Looks like snowshoes are pretty expensive, so I'll hold off for now and avoid areas with heavier snow.>It's paradise. The stakes are somewhat higher than summer hiking, so use your better judgement and if the weather is hairy stay below the treeline. Days are much shorter, you absolutely need to have a light source and start earlier than in the summer. It's important to stay dry, don't overdress and sweat; bring an extra base and mid layer in case though.Ok, this is good to keep in mind, I know being wet below freezing is dangerous, so the extra base and mid layer makes sense. I'll keep to shorter hikes to start with and get used to things.
>>2854669You can get poles for cheap on Amazon, and if you like them, can consider getting nicer ones in the future. I recommend them a lot for maneuverability and especially for any trails with steps. The only downside to poles is if you have trails where its so steep you have to grab onto stuff you will have to tuck them away for that.There's some interesting trail mysteries in PA I could use someone to solve. Apparently you can get to this beautiful view:https://endlessmountains.wordpress.com/2024/10/28/hike-to-grays-run-vista-loyalsock-state-forest/from Bodine Mountain Road but I've never seen anyone talk about it or where exactly to park or if there's any sort of social trail.
>>2854662>for trails with icy sections or hard packed-down snowYaktrax are more suitable for flat paths (think icy sidewalks or bike paths). Microspikes are the way to go on icy/packed hiking trails with easy-to-moderate slopes. Katoolah is the standard brand. Trail crampons are preferable for steeper slopes (an example in your region is some of the more hardcore routes in Pine Creek Gorge, Pennsylvania). Hillsound is the standard brand for these. Proper crampons with frontpoints probably won't be needed in that region unless you're ice climbing up waterfalls in Northern PA or adjacent parts of NY (Catskills, Finger Lakes). >for areas with snow on the groundI'll usually put snowshoes on if there's over a half-foot of snow on the ground. You can see "current" snow depth levels here:https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/nfs/files/r05/publication/R5_SnowDepth_Map.htmlI put "current" in quotes because this map is usually 24-48 hours behind. I always cross-reference with radar maps to see if any weather systems have passed through recently. Always carry snowshoes if you think you *may* need them. Better to carry the extra weight and not need them than wish you had them in the middle of your hike. You probably won't be doing any backcountry winter hiking right away, but if you find yourself doing that in the future, it would be worth investing in a mini handsaw for self-rescue in case you fall into a spruce trap and get your snowshoes caught in branches. You don't want to be stuck in place on a frigid day, in a backcountry area with no cell service. Don't ask me how I know this. Speaking of cell service, Caltopo has a cell coverage layer that will tell you if service will be unavailable in the area you're hiking. The large national forest where I got stuck had no cell coverage so calling for rescue wasn't an option. (continued)
>>2854699Mountain-forecast.com is a good source for predicted weather conditions at the base and summit of mountains (temperature, windchill, wind speed, precip). Winter hiking in the Mid-Atlantic may not be as serious as in some places, but you still need to be prepared. Dress in layers, remember "be bold, start cold," avoid cotton, bring EXTRA pairs of socks, and two headlamps as well. Packing a towel to occasionally wipe sweat from your skin isn't the worst idea in the world either. For extra peace of mind, you could also pack an emergency thermal blanket and bivvy. I have a Word document listing everything I need for serious mountain hiking in the northeast, and you can do something similar for your region. There's an abundance of information online re: winter gear so I won't list everything since this post is long enough as it is. Don't forget preparations for the drive itself. I always have a snowshovel, winter sleeping bag, and military blanket in the back of my vehicle from November through April in case of an emergency. I'm probably forgetting some things but this will help get you started. Winter is an amazing time of year to hike (fewer people, no bugs or ticks, and easier off-trail exploration). I'm sure you'll love it! >>2854671>Looks like snowshoes are pretty expensiveFor the states you listed, you're not going to need MSR Lightning Ascents or their equivalent. A $50-100 pair from Amazon or Costco will get you around fine. I've logged hundreds of miles in my backup pairs in comparably hilly terrain, and only use my MSRs in higher-consequence mountains in New York and New England.
>>2854699>>2854700Thanks for the resources. I'll start putting together a packing list. Looks like I can get a cheapo set of snowshoes + poles for around $100, so that's probably what I'll do.
>>2854699lol yaktrax are fine for steep slopesI wouldn't climb an actual mountain in the himalayas with them, but they are absolutely fine for snowy/icy switchbacks in gorges and such >Microspikes are the way to go on icy/packed hiking trails with easy-to-moderate slopesthey hurt your feet more and get shit stuck in them if there's rocks or mudIn fact I find yak trax great, even if there's not snow, for clambering up and down steep hillsides to get to the bottom of waterfalls
>>28546622854662 (OP) #WARM, waterproof boots are a must. If you plan to hike on a mountain, microspikes are a must (they can be handy on any frozen terrain).If you expect snow deeper than your boots go, get gaiters. Snow WILL otherwise get into your waterproof boots, turn to water and ruin your day.
>>2854797That sounds like a good plan. Depending on where and when you're hiking in the Mid-Atlantic states, you may not even need them. >>2854835>lol yaktrax are fine for steep slopesNot when there's ice or a thin layer of snow on top of ice. You're trying to get OP seriously injured, aren't you?This is the kind of comment that makes me wish we had an upvote/downvote system. Irresponsible advice like this would get downvoted to hell on any serious outdoor forum and even on Reddit. >>2854842Good call on gaiters. I have that on my winter gear list, right after snowshoes, but forgot to mention it above.
>>2854857>Not when there's ice or a thin layer of snow on top of ice.they work fine on iceagain, I wouldn't use them for like technical mountaineering, but just for hiking in ice and snow, definitely
>>2854859The coils on Yaktrax don't provide adequate traction for icy slopes. Spikes do a much better job and allow you to move a lot more comfortably over that terrain. They're not super expensive and don't take up a lot of weight/space either, so there's no reason not to carry them in the colder months. Yaktrax are better suited for flat surfaces.
>>2854862>The coils on Yaktrax don't provide adequate traction for icy slopesthey've worked so far for me and they are far easier on the feet than micro-spikes>Yaktrax are better suited for flat surfacesi climbed up this hill above the delaware river, whole thing covered in snow and ice, wasn't a problem, part of it was pretty steep
>>2854863Shredded Yaktrax are not an uncommon site at mountain trailheads all over the northeast in the winter. That leads me to believe they're not useful in places with serious terrain. But I'm glad they worked for you on that small hill overlooking the Delaware River. Now go north to the Catskills or west to Pine Creek Gorge and let me know how you fare with those on your feet.
>>2854866>Shredded Yaktrax are not an uncommon site at mountain trailheads all over the northeast in the winternever seen such a thingthere's a hike I want to do in pine creek gorge I don't think the hike itself is TOO bad, its marked as a faint line on alltrails - meaning social trail, I wonder if it exists or there is parking where it meets the road, and the road is itself a bit gnarly in winter to even get to, but if so I think it would be like maybe 1 mi each way to a nice 180 degree view that seemed to be the best one I could find from investigating alltrails for the west rim trail I guess I owe you to do to gillespie point in micro spikes once my foot heals up
I don't trust yaktrax at all, they're probably fine for urban stuff like shoveling out an icy driveway but I want proper spikes for backcountry. Kahtoola Microspikes or Hillsound Trail Crampons for shoulder season (late fall and early spring) and Kahtoola K-10's for the dead of winter. Always carry snowshoes and poles, they aren't that heavy and if you need them you really need them. Feeling your spikes crunch into the ice and take is a great sense of security.
>>2854868Which trail in Pine Creek? There's probably a 50/50 chance that I've done it and 90% chance that I'm at least familiar with it. >gillespie point in micro spikesBonus points if you do it in Yaktrax without injuring yourself! My best guess for the appropriate traction devices for Pine Creek's winter routes: Yaktrax for the rail trail, microspikes for most hiking trails (BFT, WRT, MST, Golden Eagle, Bob Webber), and trail crampons for some of the more spicier routes like Half Dome and that notorious section up Mt. Tom before you gain the ridge.
>>2854872>Which trail in Pine Creek?its a tiny social trail, if it even exists headed west to east to connect painter leetonia rd near ice break run with a vista on the west rim trail that, upon further consideration, maybe be somewhat similar to the (driveable) one at the bradley wales picnic area but I gotta examine the photos again I got the idea from an alltrails community content postI also have two trails both off Bodine Mountain on my list, Gray Run and Frozen Run Vista, Gray Run I'm not sure where to park but I have the coordinates for the vista and someone says online (endless mountains wordpress) that it can be done, and frozen run is off trail but slightly more established and i have the coordinates for parking I think and the overlook, the annoying part is the vista is really close to a private hunting road and somehow if I could get permission to drive and park on that road I would be SO much closer to it but i bet they would just say no
>>2854874I think you're referring to the Ice Break Trail shown on this map: https://pacanyon.com/images/west-rim-trail.pdfIt's a short trail with a vista at the eastern end where it meets the WRT. I'm familiar with the vista, but never went onto that side trail.
>>2854880yeah i guess that's it the vista seemed like the nicest one on the west rim trailits always kinda a game to see if the view is actually nice there's a lot of overgrown ones
Just start small and easy and work your way up. Try to actually work on skill and not gain false confidence. Winter hiking is weird because the trail is packed down and it's way easier and don't need snowshoes just spikes and boots, but a few feet away is deep snow that you'll sink into without and maybe even with snowshoes. So if you get lost you're fucked. And if you carry snow shoes you'll probably never use them but they could save your life. There's also two schools of thought >carry a stove and sleeping bag and tent and a bunch of heavy shit>carry only clothes and don't stop moving until you are out of the woods I prefer the latter. >>28548712nd this. Yaktrax are for mom's walking around the block. Get the legit spikes and either hillsound or kahtoola. Don't buy the cheap Amazon ones they will fall apart.A hiking pole can be helpful too as an ice pick.
you need proper shoes. Always take a way to make fire, whistle, and multiple light sources, at least one with signaling. you should be prepared for temps around 30 degrees lower than you plan to see which usually means one extra layer.know where you're going. be careful ice is slick. not required but most of us who do real winter hiking take a gps tracker with the ability to SOS. You slip and break a leg, you're in real trouble if a storm rolls in 8 hours later and you're buried.
>>2854895Oh yeah once I slipped and fell about 50 feet down a sheet of rock and ice. I had spikes but didn't think I needed them until I fell. Tbh fire is kind of a meme but I still take a lighter and candle. Once I was lazy and instead of a long hike I played survivor and tried to start a fire. It took a ton of work and the snow was constantly extinguishing the coals. I can't imagine a situation where it's possible (not raining, not injured) and the best decision to make a fire. If you break your leg crawl out, people have done it.
>>2854894but this anon >>2854835 thinks Yaktrax works great in steep terrain
>>2854913>switchbacksanon doesn't know steepTbh I'm sure they're fine most of the time but I've been on steep where even my spikes where starting to be questionable.White mountains in NH, nothing crazy in terms of mountaineering but it's steep as shit and icy
>>2854921There were some places in the Catskills where I switched from microspikes to trail crampons for extra traction. I didn't trust my spikes in those spots just like I don't trust my Yaktrax on icy trails steeper than a local bike path. Maybe I'd be fine but don't like taking unnecessary risks on solo winter hikes where the stakes are higher.
The only thing I’m going to add that some of you queers haven’t covered yet is you need to pack a good amount of food. More than you think, and food that doesn’t become a brick when cold. That’s a no for cliff bars. Peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches, pop tarts, leftover pizza have all worked for me in the past. Your body works as a furnace and needs calories to help you stay warm. When I did winter climbs of Katahdin and Mt Washington I probably went through 20 pop tarts and 3 PB sandwiches. You need more than you think
>>2854913>thinks Yaktrax works great in steep terrainthey do?Maybe I wouldn't summit Katahdin or Mt. Washington in winter in them, but for 95% of general purpose winter hikes they are fine and far far less cumbersome than spikes or crampons>>2854993Do you carry a huge bag? I always forget to bring food. And I usually feel pretty sick at the end of a hard hike so it's more like a struggle to get down what I can and sleep and then when I wake up I can usually eat a bit more.
>>2855000Depends on the length but for those longer day trips I’ll do a 55-60L bag. Big enough for food and water, as well as additional layers and backup clothes as others have mentioned. Others will use smaller packs to be more nimbler though. Depends on the objective really
>>2855001>but for those longer day trips I’ll do a 55-60L bagyeah I guess you have to, I only have a 20L pack so I just do shorter hikesI don't really enjoy hiking more than 3-4 hours anyways most times. And the other thing is I bring my bag into stores cuz I have a medical condition and drink water constantly so I would need a small bag and a big bag if I did that. I'm thinking of getting a 30L bag but I can't find one that has zippered small pocked accessible from the outside without opening the whole thing up.
>>2854927any suggestions for easy-to-moderate short hikes in the Catskills that are open in winter? Preferably 4 mi rt or less, 500ft elevation gain or less?
>>2855000I don't find spikes to be any more cumbersome than Yaktrax. If anything, they're less so because they allow you to move more confidently over ice. Opting for Yaktrax coils over Kahtoola spikes is the hiking equivalent of using all-seasons over winter tires. Way less traction and way riskier. >>2855007Katerskill Falls is a classic that doesn't have much elevation change. You'll be hard pressed to find any mountain hikes with < 500' of gain. The easiest I've done in the Catskills is Overlook Mountain and even that has over 1000'
>>2855018>You'll be hard pressed to find any mountain hikes with < 500' of gainreeeeeeeeeeeeI'm sure there's something, and if not there, in the immediate surroundings that's nice (I am not open to the Adirondacks).
>>2855021On one of my Catskills trips, I poked around Mine Kill State Park between more serious hikes. That's an option for less strenuous trails.
>>2854993That's a good point, I like peanut M&Ms for snacking and buffalo chicken sandwiches for lunch, with lots of blue cheese dressing. I always have a huge breakfast before leaving though.>>2855000>Do you carry a huge bag?nta, but I make do with a 24l bag for most trips, sometimes I step up to 35 though.
>>2855046Forgot to add, if you're buying gear a backpack should be the last thing you get. Buy it in person and bring all the rest of your gear in with you to make sure it packs well. Most reputable outdoors retailers will help you adjust and fit a pack as well.
>>2854662>am planning to do some in January in the Appalachians around VA, WV, MD, and/or PA.yeah you're cooked buddy
>>2855046why are the sticks so short extendable or somethingdoes a hand carved piece of stick not work for ice and snow
>>2855183how do you get cooked in the snow
>>2854663yak trax suck ass just spend an extra $20 and get proper microspikes>>2854664>>2854669in the summer I dont realy care for them but with in winter a pair with good snow baskets is insanely useful. And frankly you get some diminishing returns with more expensive options where youre paying more for lightweight construction and applicability. Unironically a $30 set from Costco are generally sturdy and are adjustable enough. Bonus if you get a set of inexpensive snowshoes there which come with a set of poles tooalso general tips from experience:>waterproof hiking boots/shoes are fine, maybe bring a change of socks if your feet get too sweaty. That's preferable to getting wet feet via melting snow soaking your regular shoes.>a pair of gaiters are nice in combination of the above because getting snow down your ankles is not fun.>dont overcomplicate layering, a long-sleeve enough base layer and maybe a shell are probably what you will be wearing while moving anyways, and a bonus fleece or puffer jacket can stay stowed in your pack for when you stop.>an insulated water bottle or some to keep your hydration tube warm because that thing will freeze shut and you have to stuff it down your back or somewhere else to thaw out. >ski goggles or at least wrap-around sunglasses or ones with blinders. The former especially if you're above treeline or when its particularly windy. >mittens are superior to gloves. dexterity with heavy winter gloves is already lousy anyways so why not keep your hands extra warm?>bonus it might be worth thinking about an ice axe but you need to learn how to use it and also those are probably beyond what OP is trying to do.>>2856138nta but theyre obviously collapsible. and hand carved sticks are suboptimal at best for winter because they dont have carbide tips and they dont have snow baskets to disperse weight over a larger surface area.
>>2856145>applicabilitycollapsability
>>2856138Sorry, I didn't check the thread for a bit but it looks like the other anon covered all the relevant points. For what its worth, I always bring a balaclava but since I got it I haven't had the need to wear it. I think the temperature would have to be well into the negatives, the trip the convinced me to get it was around -15 f after windchill with windblown snow in the air.
>>2855046Hey nice, we basically have the same stuff. I couldn't find my balaclava for the picture, but I have one too. I only used it for Mt Washington when the windchill got to -40, otherwise I've really not needed it. I also don't have snow pants, so I just wear sweatpants under my hiking pants lol. What are in your three bags?
>>2856194>I only used it for Mt Washington when the windchill got to -40Sorry, Immich crashed and I lost all my photos around that time and the only ones I have are those I sent to my mom so the quality is lower and no timestamp.
>>2856194>I also don't have snow pantssnow pants would be miserable anyways
>>2856232why? they are designed to keep you warm and most important to vent any excess heat to prevent sweating. They are purpose built for the activity.
>>2856194>I also don't have snow pants, so I just wear sweatpants under my hiking pants lol.That's fine, you only really wear hardshell pants under the worst conditions (insane windchill or wet precip). I usually wear softshell pants and merino long john's underneath, breathability is king. I do own a pair of quilted side-zip pants that I bring sometimes though. If you were going to get some hardshell pants I'd recommend getting side-zip ones that you can put on without taking your boots off.>What are in your three bags?RAB Parka, bivvy bag and a rain shell.One thing that isn't in this picture that I added recently is a large square of closed cell foam from a sleeping pad. In case I need to spend a night exposed or sit still for a while, something to sit on that prevents the ground from sapping my heat is nice. The bivvy bag is like a sleeping bad made of heavy duty space blanket.
I constantly have cold feet. They do not only feel cold but are cold to the touch. I suspect it is a circulation or nerve issue.My shoes are rated per mfg for - 14C, I get cold feet at around 0C while moving. I have insulating insoles.What, except for health related stuff, can be done to improve the situation? Is it any use slapping more insulation? Would padded gaiters improve the situation or is the bulk of the heat lost through the soles?
>>2856269idk what snow pants you've experienced but virtually every pair ive seen/used dont even have vent features. They're more purpose built for skiing or like ice fishing or something where you're not generating as much heat from constant walking. Regular hiking pants with some wool long undies are peak. >>2856289 he gets it.
>>2856145the tip has to be sharp?
>>2856407Sharp enough that the TSA doesn't like them, but not sharp enough to stab yourself. Usually the carbides are squared off at the end and knurled.
>>2856407the whole idea is to have something that can bite into ice
>>2856141frostbite... Derp
>>2856145Can confirm, buddy had yaktraxs and was struggling all day on stuff my microspikes felt 100% on.
>>2856416>>2856408these won't double as regular walking sticks right cause of the metal at the bottom regular ones have rubber to grip and preserve a floor
>>2856659Most trek poles come with rubber feet that you can take on/off for use on like paved surfaces. the carbide tips should be used for everything else
>>2856666those pieces of rubber are inevitably lost because they get hooked by rocks or ice, they can last just one or 2 hikes depending on things. if you shim them properly and are careful where you put them they can last much more but they will fall off eventuallystill, you want to wear them always because the metal or carbide or whatever, the pointy tip fucks up the trails. except on snow i guess where as someone said you want the tip to bite the snow easily, up to the circle thing that stops the stick from going further
>>2856676Why are you using them on rocks and ice? Like I said they're intended for paved surfaces. >the pointy tip fucks up the trailsOh. You dont go out do you
>>2856676>still, you want to wear them always because the metal or carbide or whatever, the pointy tip fucks up the trails.I always have the carbide tips out, it does scar up the rocks a bit on some higher traffic trails but that's just the reality of the situation. I do agree that the tip covers are lost easily, it's one of the most frequent pieces of garbage I pick up while hiking.
>>2856686>>2856685they do scar rocks but my point was about dirt trails, almost everyone wears them exposed and each of them makes a small hole in the dirt and over time they all add up on top of water and other natural erosion causes and the trails get fucked up. obviously it depends on how popular the place is, how steep and what kind of terrain etc but i'm pretty sure they cause real damage. i've seen areas where you can see grass destroyed a couple meters to the sides because the trail gets so bad that people avoid it and in the process they fuck up the grass too>they're intended for paved surfaceswhy? i don't see why you wouldn't use rubber tip there too
>>2856676>>2856688Trekking poles do almost nothing to trails beyond "slightly" increase water absorption. Deer fuck up trails more than trekking poles.There are examples of trails that are hundreds and some thousands of years old. The problem is always rain/snow erosion, trash, and invasive species brought in by dogfuckers.
