Since I think all y'all would be the most mature and knowledgable board about this:I need to settle this debate for our families emergency kits when a snowstorm or power outage hits. (I checked for a stupid questions thread but there wasn't any) I am arguing in favor of getting two butane gas stoves/burners for general use, see picrelThe reason for this is that I want to be able to cook indoors for obvious security reasons. We all live in the same, but pretty cramped subdivision, and everyone can look into eachothers front and back yards.However, my brother is having a mental breakdown how carbon dioxide will kill us if we'd cook indoors without mechanical ventilation or a range hood after a power outage. Regardless of cracking a window or two.For indoor use I would prefer to use one of those flat stoves rather than something tall like those stoves that you screw on top of a canister, due to its much higher center of gravity. I know there are some safety concerns with those flat stoves, but to my knowledge that is caused by using pots or pans on the stove that are way too large, reflecting and conducting a lot of heat back down to where the gas canister is, causing it to burst under pressure, and the gas igniting from the lit burner, causing a nice thermobaric effect I suppose.Let's focus the discussion purely using a propane (butane too I guess) stove indoors in an emergency with regard to breathing safety.Are there any risks if you just cook in one room upstairs with the window(s) open?Do the risks outweigh the safety/security offered by cooking indoors to your opinion?
>>2855205Do you have a deck/patio to cook on?Having proper ventilation indoors would mean cooling down your living space to uncomfortable levels then having to heat the area back up after you cook.
>>2855205just use it near an open window, people do it all the timeits not the same as using a charcoal grill or entire propane tank, those are where all the reported deaths come from
>>2855206>Do you have a deck/patio to cook on?Yes, but as mentioned in the OP you're seen by everyone, which is the whole point of wanting to cook indoors. It's not a bad neighborhood where we live, but no neighborhood is without (pretty) bad apples. I just want to protect my family from some rando with mental health issues or someone that is so desperate that violence is their first course of action.>Having proper ventilation indoors would mean cooling down your living space to uncomfortable levels then having to heat the area back up after you cook.I am proposing to assign one room in the house for cooking, not to stay in after cooking. If that room gets (a lot) colder for a few hours a day, that's fine, we don't need to stay in that room. Also planning on using towels to further close up the gap between the bottom of the door and the floor, not against CO/CO2 but against the cold draught.I'm thinking that about 30-60 minutes of additional ventilation after cooking is sufficient to ensure safe air and getting some moisture out.>>2855207Exactly. The problem is that my brother is a PhD grad and he just has an annoying tendency to reject every proposal or argument just because he didn't come up with it and is extremely autistically risk-averse beyond any reality. But he has kid and a wife that I hate to see anything bad happen to. He's an avid hiker unlike me, are there any hiker YT channels maybe that went over this that he trusts more than his own brother?
>>2855205How do you replace those butane canisters in an emergency? Why not use a stove that can burn gasoline or kerosene instead
>>2855209>in an emergencyWhat kind of emergency are you talking about:?You can just replace them shits in a pinch, those canisters are about a buck or two depending on where you look.See picrelOther alternatives, as mentioned in the OP, are those tanks that you screw a stove atop on. I think years ago you also had another type of can that is punctured by the stove body, meaning that you can't swap them out until they are empty. I hardly see those anymore. They're not within my current considerations.
>>2855208>my brother is a PhD gradhe makes you call him Dr., doesn't he?if he feels like eating cold spaghettio's, thats his own prerogative have a stove for yourself, eat a nice warm meal when the power shits outhe does what he wants & you do what you want, either he takes his head out of his ass or he doesn't, simple as
>>2855212>he makes you call him Dr., doesn't he?nah>he does what he wants & you do what you want, either he takes his head out of his ass or he doesn't, simple asYeah, it seems like that is the only way to go about it. Just fucking sucks for his kid, who is as cute as a button.
>>2855205the fact is these things burn very cleanly and don't produce a dangerous amount of harmful gases, especially in the time it takes to cook a meal. it's not like you're leaving it burning 24/7. the risk is minimal.you will never get that point across to these types of no-common-sense illogical people living in constant fear though. maybe ask him why he you don't suffocate in your house?
>>2855215>living in constant fear thoughI'm actually glad he's finally doing something, whereas I've been building an outage kit for about a decade. But to my opinion he's just doing the wrong stuff. The fact that I've spent a decade already thinking about this shit is just ignored by him and I'm just the retarded brother that had difficulty to graduate college.>maybe ask him why he you don't suffocate in your housealready did, muh mechanical ventilation and muh electric range hood
>>2855205The main downside with those is in cold weather the gas pressure inside the canister drops and the flame gets weak. Also when the canister is nearly empty, it freezes up just from being used and the flame can go out. Some have a heat pad that takes some heat from the flame to warm up the canister. >carbon dioxideOf no concern whatsoever. Should be more concerned about monoxide but still not worth worrying about. People have use bigger gas stoves in houses with no range hoods for decades by now. >conducting a lot of heat back down to where the gas canister is, causing it to burst under pressureI couldn't see how this is even remotely possible. The canister has a lid over it, that would be enough heat protection. I've laid canisters right next to the flame resting against the pot stand to warm them up. No problems.
Your PhD brother sure doesn't think like a scientist. >get propane stove>get CO detector>put them in the same room>test it while you have electricity
I use to cook with these daily in a van with the windows rolled down, for about six years almost daily.
>>2855249Some rural and suburban homes have propane stoves and central heating. They don't kill people. Blue flame good; orange flame bad (incomplete burning).
>>2855205Is he aware that people heat their entire house, heat their water, and have normal full size stoves that all run on a giant propane tank 20 yards from their house?If he is super paranoid just get pic related and keep it close while cooking and if it goes off then shut off the little stove.Problem solved.
>>2855208>my neighbor might break and kill me if they see me cooking foord during a power outage.You have larger issues dude.
carbon monoxide detectors are cheap and available, mine also detects Radon, is a great thermometer and cost me about 100Dkk (16Usd)just gotta be careful with it because i always forget which button is the alarm test, and it is LOUDwhenever i take my lavvu with the stove i also bring it, just because i would rather be woken up in the middle of the night, then not wake up at all
>>2855205>families emergency kits when a snowstorm or power outage hits.>I am arguing in favor of getting two butane gas stoves/burners for general use, see picrelChinesesium shit that will blow up and burn your face off, they're renown for detonating.>Let's focus the discussion purely using a propane (butane too I guess) stove indoors in an emergency with regard to breathing safety.Propane is safe indoors as propane contains it's own oxygen, so it's not burning up the air you breathe. Get a propane camping stove, not a Chinese napalm bomb.
>>2855488>they're renown for detonatingLiterally never heard of that happening before >have been using the same $20 stove for 20 years and its still fine.
>>2855205I'm using a butane cooker, just like the one in your pic, indoors all the time. They will not emit more CO2, CO or NOx than any other gas stove and just so you know: People have gas stoves.Some of the ones you showed even come with an adapter next to the knob / dial so you can hook up a hose from a big tank, which will be propane usually.Regarsibg 'emergencies': Keep in mind the butane cans are so cheap because the can can be very cheap as butane, at room temperature, has what, 2 bars of vapour pressure or so?By the time you get to freezing there won't be any left and unless you have a way to pump it up and preheat you wont be cooking with it.Meanwhile propane has much higher vapour pressure at room temp and still plenty left at or below freezing.For you this means: Butane no worky whrn cold.Also: Propane without in a cooker that isn't made for it bad. Especiall,without regulator. It was not built for the pressure. Different elastomers (the unit might have some seals) behave differently when exposed to different media. Propane might foul a seal that butane doesnt.
>>2855488>propane contains its own oxygen
>>2855488Dude WHATboth are CxHx. No oxygen at all in either. Looks like /out/ is as stupid when it comes to chemistry as it is when it comes to physics, electronics, carpentry...>burning up your airPropanes stochimetric ratio is 5:1 or something, with air being 1/5 oxygen you need only 25 m3, mol, L or whatever of air to burn 1 m3, mol, L or whatever of propane.How much propane exactly do you intend on burning inside a house? KEK
>>2855493Ok but I have and I'd never buy one, just use a normal propane camping stove that isn't dangerous and has easier (and larger) fuel supply.>>2855535Son, I've used a propane heater for years in a popup camper when deer hunting and during exceptionally cold winters here in Michigan, I'll set it up on low in the basement with a 20lb tank and let it run all night to help keep my home heating costs down.A propane camp stove (or heater) is perfectly safe to use indoors.
>>2855205>carbon dioxideIt's carbon monoxide. Just get detector. I have one in my car and garage. It's like $15 now.
let' have a quick snack while working
>>2855205your picrel burner is absolute dogshit trash, just saying.it just isnt hot enough and it takes forever to cook anything on it. get a hiking style burner they are far better.
Where my naptha niggas at?
>>2855205>mature and knowledgable boardbwahahahahah
>>2855208Seems like you and your brother have the same mental problem, only expressed differently. You are convinced your neighbours want to kill. Your brother is convinced that cooking indoors will kill. You are both wrong and both need to get your head out of your ass.
>>2855208>my brother is a PhD grad and he just has an annoying tendency to reject every proposal or argument just because he didn't come up with it and is extremely autistically risk-averse beyond any reality.your brother is a smart and well educated man, you aint. just saying....
>>2855205Yeah just open a window and you'll be fine. Ideally, if weather permits, crack another window somewhere else for a bit of air flow. Have you thought about how you're actually going to set it up? A small folding table with a silicone pad for the burner and maybe a few more for hot pots or whatever would be a good idea. They make smoke alarms with carbon monoxide detectors that live in a standard outlet and take batteries as backup so when the power goes out they'll still work. Stick one of those in the designated room as well. Consider having some Sterno on hand so you can keep food warm or reheat it without using your cooking fuel, the only consideration is rigging up something to hold a pot above it but that shouldn't be too hard, you could use a few empty beer cans or something like that.I see people ragging on you for worrying about your neighbors and it's possible you're being paranoid but I have to say I've felt similarly in recent years. When Texas froze over in 2021 I was fine, I was handing out water in repurposed vodka jugs and grilling on the back porch. Now my area's built up and I'm surrounded by strangers and rentoids and I'm a little worried that if the SHTF again and someone who was too dumb to have some SPAM around sees me grilling it's going to make me a target.
>>2855693they're back in 1965liquid fuel is so much more of a pain in the ass unless you're camping in -20 degrees
>>2855666That thing pumps out the BTUs as if it was a gusher lit on fire. Idk where you got this idea from. It's the same thing just in a convenient base at half the price. >>2855693Still pumping or cooking already?Worst thing is how gas stations don't sell by that amount so it's either pointless or hardware store expensive unless you're at home.>>2855717Consider that flu thing.>>2855725I put that thing wherever and don't see a reason to vent anything, why would I? The physics just dont warrant all the hysteria itt.>>2855770And even then you can get cans that atill have pressure at those temps and - theoretically - you could even use one of those butane cans the wrong way up if you had a preheat loop and a way to pump it.
>>2855205check the heat output i have a stove from iwatani that takes butane canisters and puts out 15k btu i think it's bitchin hot. You can cook inside if you're in a big house cooking a meal isn't going to suffocate you if it's absolutely freezing outside, but it's definitely going to make carbon monoxide in some quantities. I wouldn't do it in a small closed room and then stay in that room but use them in an opened garage or something out of the wind. Wind fucks with those things and low temperatures also fuck with the pressure in the tanks and kill the output.. so if you want to cook outside in the cold you need a full canister.
>>2855533bro is thinking of glucose
>>2855488>Cringeposting in a schizo thread>>2855205>Carbon DioxideOP I have a propane/butane stove at the bottom of my storage rack, with 1 lb bottles that I use for the exact same purpose. You know what I also have? A carbon monoxide detector powered by a 9 volt battery. You won't gas out your family while you cook up another batch of spaghetti with canned Hunts tomato sauce and vienna sausages I promise
itt: people who have clearly never used a gas cookerTell your PhD brother to stay in his lane.Indoor gas cooking has been standard practice for decades. Butane and propane burn cleanly and do not produce CO under normal operating conditions. What you are actually worried about is CO2, and in this context it is a complete non-issue. From a breathing-safety standpoint, CO2 exposure during the time it takes to cook a family meal is negligible.Of all the failure modes associated with this kind of stove >>2855205, you are worrying about the wrong one.Since this is for a bug-in scenario and compactness is not a constraint, the sensible choice is a setup that allows the gas tank to remain separate from the burner.If anything, I would be far more concerned about a gas heater like >>2855573. Devices without an open flame introduce more failure modes, that you can't see clearly, and are meant to burn for a long time.Higher education is fine. Highly educated people who start having strong opinions outside their field of expertise, however, are among the most annoying people on this planet.
>>2855219>Cold weatherUse propane/propane rich mix instead of butane
>>2855488>Be young me>Parents bought a gas heater for the living room>Literally a 13 kg butane canister heater>Enjoyed watching its RED HOT INCANDESCENT PRESSED ASBESTOS BOARD heating element while playing on the floor right next to it>Decades on, still here, no issues
>>2855214If it's going to be this much of a hassle have you thought about just investing in an obscene amount of chaffing fuel?
>>2855444I'm 'miring.
>>2857068that gas heater actually has a tiny little pilot light that burns on the outside, they're pretty safe
