We had a conversation about the drug war. I told him I'm a Hispanic Immigrant (which I am) and I'm a huge supporter of the war on drugs. I generally believe in the ideas of freedom, individuality, and the right to be free of government coercion. The reason I believe drugs should be criminalized is because I've seen just how destructive they are to a society. When people become drug addicts, they are willing to resort to violent crime to get their next fix. They become unmotivated and useless in the labor markets. A society with large swaths of its population becoming potentially violent useless zombies will rot a civilization.Charlie fully agreed with me and loved my solutions. I said that drug dealers should be executed and drug addicts, if found to be causing problems (like most do) should be put in labor camps and put towards profitable work projects like cleaning waste or plowing roads. Charlie also supported military ventures against the cartels and using U.S drones to attack drug shipments.
>>515566445cool, what did he say about the israel lobby?
>>515566802We didn't talk about that, it wasn't of primary interest to me.I'm more concerned with American domestic policy on issues that will govern the society we live in. Whether or not we side with Israel or the Arab forces in this conflict has geopolitical implications but it's not really the type of political discussion I was looking for.
>>515566999as for the war on drugs, i have some mixed feelings since it clearly doesn't work. the alcohol prohibition didn't work either. i think people turn to street drugs for reasons like doctors refusing to treat pain for people that need it. they should increase drug access from pharmacies and cartels will lose money on it and maybe switch away from drug trafficking
>>515568429>clearly doesn't workIt does>prohibition didnt workIt absolutely did.
>>515569441>>prohibition didnt work>It absolutely did.what problems did it fix? and if it fixed them, did the bootleggers and methanol poisoning the benefits?
>>515570038>and methanol poisoning the benefits?Yes, the whole point of a war is to kill your enemy, if the drug war results in more poisoning to your enemy, you are winning.
>>515570739>picseems like the alcoholic trouble makers continued to get drunk and didn't fix anything
>>515571224The picture literally shows the opposite.
>>515571224Even the people who did continue to get drunk were being constantly hunted down, having their parties busted in, were shot by police, were jailed and locked up in chain gang prisons where they were forced to engage in free labor.
>>515566999Foreign affairs govern the society we live in because the money we spend on them causes inflation, and the enemies we make lead to things like 9/11.
>>515566445>hispanic immigrantfuck off out of my country spic
>>515571491why did it increase in following years if there was a supposed crackdown by police?
>>515571869It didn't, it was still down 30% from before prohibition.
>>515571783And that's why I mentioned there is an indirect effect on us from foreign policy, but that more so is based on a disagreement on the best way to ensure national security, it's not really a philosophical disagreement on how a society should run. I do like talking about foreign policy but this particular debate is focused on what type of laws our society should have... not what actions should we do internationally to secure our interests.
>>515566445I always find it interesting how conservatives who are of the groups conservatives demonize rationalize their support. Conservative immigrants and black people can mainly attack drugs, gay people, transgender ideology, feminism whatever. While on the other hand druggies, gay people, women can instead attack immigrants and black people. But they all vote for the same man.
>>515566445Literally NOBODY cares about your blog you fucking illegal faggot
>>515566445>I'm a Hispanic ImmigrantGet the fuck out beans
>>515571831You are a communist well poisoner.
>>515566445>I'm a Hispanic Immigrant (which I am) and I'm a huge supporter of the war on drugsgo back, kill yourself>When people become drug addicts, they are willing to resort to violent crime to get their next fix.im a drug addict and i never commited a violent crime. kill yourself.>They become unmotivated and useless in the labor markets.i wouldn't say i'm useless but unmotivated is fairanyway it's not my drug of choice but alcohol has been legally available almost everywhere for centuries and it didn't cause a collapse of the countryyou should learn to think. in your home country, where you belong.
>>515573141>anyway it's not my drug of choice but alcohol has been legally available almost everywhere for centuries and it didn't cause a collapse of the countryWe literally banned alcohol for an entire decade. Learn history, and go to rehab drug addict.And you're kind of proving my point with alcohol, it's been legal for centuries, and we still haven't cured cancer or solved all of societies problems, we don't have a utopia.
>>515573141>>515572641lol
>>515571969it still rose over time from the initial ban, and that probably happened because the mafia got established and started running alcohol in from outside the country. it just created more crime which is probably the reason for repealing it. there is no drug cartel if we regulate drugs properly and give it to whoever needs it
>>515573373>We literally banned alcohol for an entire decade. Learn history, and go to rehab drug addict.it was widely regarded as a failure which is why we stopped and never did it again>it's been legal for centuries, and we still haven't cured cancer or solved all of societies problems, we don't have a utopia.we didn't have a utopia during prohibition either, retard>>515573418it's all bread and circuses obviously.
>>515566445there wouldnt be cartels if all drugs were legally regulated you spastic
>>515573141>I'm a drug addict You and him should kill each other in a knife duel.I hope both of you faggots bleed out to death in the middle of the street
>>515573714>it was widely regarded as a failure which is why we stopped and never did it againYeah by Liberal history teachers, have you ever researched it yourself?>>515573590>it still rose over time from the initial ban, and that probably happened because the mafia got established and started running alcohol in from outside the countryYeah, but the mafia didn't produce as much as the aggregate of previous alcohol producers, it never rose above 100% of pre-prohibiton levels.>it just created more crime And stopped alcohol>which is probably the reason for repealing it. No, the reason was that nobody wanted alcohol to remain illegal>here is no drug cartel if we regulate drugs properly and give it to whoever needs itBut then legal businesses and corporations can sell alcohol and do exactly what the cartel would have done... with full State blessing.
>>515573831If all drugs were legal and regulated then corporations and businesses could basically be cartels, selling them at legal points of entry you fucking moron.Nothing to stop pharmacies from selling regulated Cocaine.
>>515574200>Yeah by Liberal history teachers, have you ever researched it yourself?i havepeople still drank alcohol, speakeasies were incredibly common. drug prohibition made criminals out of people whose only crime was the proliferation of alcohol. it also provided an enormously lucrative opportunity to drug cartels, who had the logistics and muscle to move huge quantities of alcohol to where it was demanded. by prohibiting it we effectively handed the mafia a gift.when states decriminalize weed they typically see a sharp decrease in marijuana from outside the state being imported, the black market is sharp reduced. it doesn't totally vanish because there is still the barrier of higher cost to legal purchase, but the only people buying black market drugs in a legal environment are people who can't buy legally, by definition.if prohibition worked than drugs that are schedule one would be unavailable, and i wouldn't see homeless people smoking fentanyl at the bus stop.eat shit.
>>515574364>Nothing to stop pharmacies from selling regulated Cocaine.i wish they still did
>>515574200>it never rose above 100% of pre-prohibiton levels.i wouldn't expect it to ever go above 100% because the casual drinkers didn't care enough to seek alcohol afterwards>>515574200>>it just created more crime >And stopped alcoholtrading one problem for another is not a benefit to society>>515574200>No, the reason was that nobody wanted alcohol to remain illegalso why did they ban it in the first place?>>515574200>But then legal businesses and corporations can sell alcohol and do exactly what the cartel would have done... with full State blessing.sure, the opioid epidemic was caused by a badly regulated pharmaceutical business. the difference is that there is a possibility of change by regulation, while cartels have zero chance of change since they aren't following anyones rules
>>515575032there's really no reason they shouldn't, cocaine used to be legal yet there was no epidemic of people dying from cocaine use. as always it has been losers, degenerates, and people with no self control who die of drug overdose. it is not the access to drugs (which is universal, because prohibiton does not work) which is the problem, it is the culture. specifically a culture that says addicts have no control over their addiction and can't exercise free will. it's called learned helplessness.
>>515575032Ok but society would suffer for it.>>515574847>people drank alcoholPeople stopped, Madison Grant even admitted after the war that prohibition made him stop drinking. Most adults don't have time to go search for shit on the black market. People quit alcohol.>drug prohibition made criminals out of people whose only crime was the proliferation of alcoholYeah that's the point, if you make them a criminal you have full legal authority to fuck them up.>. it also provided an enormously lucrative opportunity to drug cartels, who had the logistics and muscle to move huge quantities of alcohol to where it was demanded. by prohibiting it we effectively handed the mafia a gift.That's the tradeoff, but if it's worth it, it's worth it.Banning murder will make illict hitman services more lucrative, should we legalize murder to undercut hitmen companies? LOL>when states decriminalize weed they typically see a sharp decrease in marijuana from outside the state being imported, the black market is sharp reducedAnd they see a sharp increase in legal marijuana to offset that decrease.>if prohibition worked than drugs that are schedule one would be unavailableIf prohibition failed, I would be a drug addict right now, and so would my family. Instead we're all clean.
>>515575388>i wouldn't expect it to ever go above 100% because the casual drinkers didn't care enough to seek alcohol afterwardsDING DING DING, and there we have it. Prohibition does work because the majority of people are casual drinkers.>trading one problem for another is not a benefit to societyIf you think alcohol is worse for society than the additional crime, it does.>so why did they ban it in the first place?Mass hysteria and there was a huge lobby push from the feminist lobby and industrialists like Henry Ford.>sure, the opioid epidemic was caused by a badly regulated pharmaceutical business. the difference is that there is a possibility of change by regulation, while cartels have zero chance of change since they aren't following anyones rulesThe only way they can "change" in a way that would be acceptable is if they stopped selling drugs or stopped existing, or both.>>515575552>cocaine used to be legal yet there was no epidemic of people dying from cocaine useSo how do you win a war if you're not killing your enemy?> as always it has been losers, degenerates, and people with no self control who die of drug overdoseProblem is, normal people will still use it recreationally.> it is not the access to drugs (which is universal, because prohibiton does not work) which is the problemExcept it is, people don't have access to drugs because prohibition works.You should learn economics.
>>515576480>That's the tradeoff, but if it's worth it, it's worth it.it's not worth it, the bad things (empowered criminal cartels, people jailed for nonviolent offenses, the violence associate with both) outweigh the good (some people stop drinking)>>515576480>Banning murder will make illict hitman services more lucrative, should we legalize murder to undercut hitmen companies? LOLi can't take you seriously if you conflate drug use with murder. you obviously know why the two are radically different and you're arguing in bad faith. go back to burritoland.>If prohibition failed, I would be a drug addict right now, and so would my family. Instead we're all clean.you are weak
>>515577516>it's not worth it, the bad things (empowered criminal cartels, people jailed for nonviolent offenses, the violence associate with both) outweigh the good (some people stop drinking)If the some people stop drinking then reinvest that additional capital into investments, and they're more productive, and healthier (use less resources), that could outweigh the other damage. So im not exactly sure, I'd need a cost benefit analyst.>i can't take you seriously if you conflate drug use with murder. you obviously know why the two are radically different and you're arguing in bad faith. go back to burritoland.THat wasn't at all the point of the argument, the point is that "but if you ban something, black market criminals will do it" is a shitty argument.>you are weakYeah i am, but so are a lot of people, and if enough weak people turn to drug addicts society will fall or at the very least stagnate. I'm a tax paying citizen, if i was a drug addict i'd be a net tax drain. The war on drugs has kept me as a net contributor rather than a net tax drain. In that sense the war on drugs has paid for itself.
>>515576820>Prohibition does work because the majority of people are casual drinkerswell no, your statistics show that 30-40% of people were casual>>515576820>If you think alcohol is worse for society than the additional crime, it doesthe mafia was shooting people and putting people into debt. that is more destructive than the small portion of alcohol drinkers being a problem to society>>515576820>Mass hysteria and there was a huge lobby push from the feminist lobby and industrialists like Henry Fordmaybe this current war on drugs was also started for the wrong reasons>>515576820>The only way they can "change" in a way that would be acceptable is if they stopped selling drugs or stopped existing, or both.drugs are functional tools in the healthcare industry. ban them and people will commit suicide from lack of pain meds after they have a surgery. or people die on the surgical table because you banned the anesthetics like ketamine
>>515578949>well no, your statistics show that 30-40% of people were casualOk, even so, that's still a sizable minority.>the mafia was shooting people and putting people into debt. that is more destructive than the small portion of alcohol drinkers being a problem to societyWere the people they shooting wealthy bankers and CEOs or were they lowlifes? That matters.>maybe this current war on drugs was also started for the wrong reasonsHenry Ford did it for the right reasons, he wanted people working not drinking.>drugs are functional tools in the healthcare industry. ban them and people will commit suicide from lack of pain meds after they have a surgeryThose obviously aren't the drugs we are talking about. You can get morphone (heroin) with a doctors notice.
>>515579208>Were the people they shooting wealthy bankers and CEOs or were they lowlifes? That matters.you can compare modern cartels to the prohibition mafias. they were using regular people to do their bidding>Henry Ford did it for the right reasons, he wanted people working not drinking.sounds like a jew being angry that his goys are not bringing in enough shekels>Those obviously aren't the drugs we are talking about. You can get morphone (heroin) with a doctors notice.what kind of drugs are pharmacies distributing that should be banned across the table for not being medically useful? cartels are usually distributing the same drugs, so that's why i ask
>>515580059>you can compare modern cartels to the prohibition mafias. they were using regular people to do their biddingI doubt it's MIT engineers doing it, it's people who are complete lowlifes anyway.>sounds like a jew being angry that his goys are not bringing in enough shekelsStill, that's what I want, more profits, more reinvestment, more capitalism, more growth, bigger and richer society.>what kind of drugs are pharmacies distributing that should be banned across the table for not being medically useful? cartels are usually distributing the same drugs, so that's why i askThey're not doing it with medical care. No drug should be banned fully if it has medical purposes, the point is they're reactionally banned. As i said, heroin literally is legal in certain circumstances.
>>515566999When Israel interferes in US domestic political processes to ensure that the whole government is stacked with Zionist yes-men that very much effects how the society you lie in is governed. You know this though because like all meme flags there's an 80% chance you're an Israeli yourself lol.
>>515580350>As i said, heroin literally is legal in certain circumstances.yes i think that is not good. as i said, the opioid crisis was caused by bad regulation. if governments stopped wasting our resources on a endless cycle of fighting cartels, they could give real punishments to the pharmacy companies that give away narcotics like candy. on the other hand, they can't be too stingy with the medication since some people turn to street drugs if the pharmacies deny their requests for pain meds. it's a delicate problem to fix, and the war on drugs is not a very good solution
>>515581350The only problem with the war on drugs is that it was paired with an inefficient justice system.If drug addicts were put down upon conviction it would clean up the street problem very fast.
>>515581595that is true. china fixed their opioid crisis by ruling with an iron fist. the problem is that we live in a cuck democracy so i think it is not possible for your ideals to be implemented legally. it is more reasonable to use industry regulation to minimize the problem of recreational abuse
>>515578761>In that sense the war on drugs has paid for itself.i'd be surprised if you clear 50k a year let alone the hundreds of billions spent on ineffectual prohibition
