The wikipedia article on Asperger says those who have it have poor prosody.But isn't dependence on prosody for conveying information really a sign that the language is poor? When I say language I mean in the sense of English, Latin etc are languages.When I asked chatgpt about prosody it gave this as an example of what prosody is.>How the voice rises at the end of a sentence to indicate a question:>"You're going to the store?"In English you can change the word order to indicate a question, but nevertheless this is an example chatgpt gave, and something people often do, to use this word order and yet mean it to be a question. However in Latin this is not a problem because Latin originally didn't even have the question mark, but instead used the suffix "-ne". A question mark is in writing only, it does not transfer to speech, just like a comma. You don't say out loud "question mark" or "comma", but rather this is conveyed by prosody, in the example above by rising voice.My point is that while the question mark often requires prosody to convey its meaning in speech, the suffix "-ne" does not. And it's the same thing with comma, Latin didn't originally have the comma, and it doesn't transfer to speech other than through prosody. Instead Latin conveyed the meaning through other means such as suffixes which you have in speech just as much as in writing, ie there is no need for prosody to communicate a suffix.Given that English relies on prosody to convey the equivalent in speech in many instances where there is question mark and comma in writing, and given that Latin didn't even have question mark and comma originally, and both before and after the addition of question mark and comma to Latin it does not require neither these forms of punctuation, nor their speech counterpart which is prosody, I'd say that Latin a) is less dependent on prosody than English, b) is a richer language, and c) English uses punctuation and prosody to try to make up for its poverty.
>>516200433How do you figure that being able to phrase the same question in multiple way makes English a "poorer" language?
>>516200433If spoken English can convey meanings through tonal changes and pacing rather than adding suffixes that actually means it's a richer language, not a poorer one.Unless you're an autistic retard who can't understand those things. But that's like saying sign language is superior to spoken language because deaf people can understand it better.
>>516200433Language inefficient unoptimal Broken down altered mismatched still comprehensible Speaking w/out grammar rules =>increase thought form pattern synchronicity
>>516200433It’s quite clear both spoken and written, so I wouldn’t call it a limitation. Sounds like you wanted to share that Latin uses letters instead of symbols to indicate a question. It’s interesting, but an odd approach from autism.
>>516200433I have aspergers and will audibly say "question mark" at the end of a question to help normgroids understand.
>>516200783Maybe that wasn't the best example. My point is really that anything which does not transfer to speech by other means than prosody is a poor feature. A better example might be where a comma in writing is conveyed by a pause in speech.>Let's eat, grandma.Edamus, avia.>Let's eat grandma.Aviam edamus.
>>516200433What I want is autistic cunts and incels off this site they shit up everything around themselves
>>516201538How do you figure that pauses in speech make English a poorer language?
>>516201616His sole weighting criteria is what's better for autistic people.
>>516201616The difference between these two in speech is very subtle.>Let's eat, grandma.>Let's eat grandma.The equivalent difference in Latin is much clearer.>Edamus, avia.>Aviam edamus.Here the word order was changed which kind of distracts from my point. I don't know much Latin so I used chatgpt to translate English. But anyway the feature there that conveys the difference is the suffix "-m". Latin has flexible word order so you could probably say the following and retain the meaning.>Avia edamus.>Aviam edamus.Again, "-m" is much clearer than the very subtle difference in speech between>Let's eat, grandma.>Let's eat grandma.
>>516201931Are you saying that perceived subtlety makes English a poorer language? If so, why?
Prosody is more than just inflection or intonation, which is what you're describingProsody is making language sound musical and melodic.Basically listen to any theatrical line delivery or audiobook read by any British RSC/Shakespearean actor. Like maybe some classic British children's audiobooks:>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MZmKXBIak
>>516202222>ai using retard >uses fucking gpt instead of grox or the chink ones too Hopeless
>>516202149Also to achieve prosody you need to have mastered basic pronunciation and elocution first so it's a sign of language mastery.Prosody is like improvising a solo on a musical instrument or writing poetry, except for human speech. There's no right or wrong way since everyone can and does achieve it in different ways, but everyone can agree on what sounds good or bad.
>>516202149I believe another term is cadence. i.e. Autists will have random short pauses into their speech that don't really sound right.
>>516202024Greater risk of being misheard, misunderstood.>Picturam puellae ridentis pinxit.He painted a picture of the girl laughing.>Picturam puellae ridens pinxit.He painted a picture of the girl, laughingRidentis/ridens is the same in writing and speech. The comma is in writing only. The only way to convey it in speech is with a pause, which is far less clear than ridentis vs ridens and is prone to being misunderstood. Also, as a general rule, marking verbs and adjectives for which noun they're referring to makes for less syntactic ambiguity. It also means you're not dependent on word order, and flexible word order is an advantage in poetry, because you can easily move around words in a sentence to make it rhyme with another sentence, without affecting the meaning. According to classicists this makes Latin poetry more powerful than English poetry.
>>516202835Writing isn't part of language, it's only a way to express language, and there are multiple ways to write any language. One can be completely illiterate and perfectly fluent in any language. So forget about writing because that's irrelevant.
>>516202830Cadence is part of it too.Prosody is probably like cadence + elocution + intonation + inflection + pitch + word choices + sentence structure etcLike Poe and Shakespeare read aloud sounds absolutely rhythmic:Once upon a midnight drearyWhile I pondered weak and wearyetc so word choice is part of it too.Or Shakespeare's imabic pentameters or whatever.>An iamb (/ˈaJæm/ EYE-am) or iambus is a metrical foot used in various types of poetry. Originally the term referred to one of the feet of the quantitative meter of classical Greek prosody: a short syllable followed by a long syllable (as in καλή (kalḗ) "beautiful (f.)").
I think you're confused about what prosody is (not relying on ChatGPT would be a start) because every language including Latin has prosody. Latin poetry with its strict prosodic schemes would be pointless without it
>>516200433>But isn't dependence on prosody for conveying information really a sign that the language is poor?No
>>516200433You are correct. Latin is better and richer. >>516200783>>516201093>>516202024Language lacking rules and ending up making the same sounds for different meaning where prosody is the only difference is poor and retarded. Why not just make one word that has different prosody to convey the entire language? If it's better like some retards here claim then Chinese is absolutely superior since they have one word mean like 120 things depending on the prosody.Lacking indications or such in the language makes you cope by changing prosody. If we remove the suffix s to indicate ownership, and we make it into a prosody you would think that's dumbing down the language and just makes it harder to use. "Steven jacket" depending on prosody to convey "Stevens jacket". This is exactly same retardery. Go back to cave and speak like Grugg. "All this gramma complicate.Much hard" "Berry no eat" but changing prosody makes meaning be poisonous, not hungry, bad taste, etc etc. Yes, so rich to have this prosody to cope with the fact there is no real sound to pronounce to convey a message. What a rich language
>>516200433Yes, people with autism are not as good at linguistic cues because they tend to operate with more concrete logic than contextual nonsense
>>516200433Ah, Asperger was a Gnazi and we don't use that word here anymore
>>516204017I think you and others like you are complaining that written English doesn't reflect spoken English well enough. That's a common complaint but it's a problem with the writing, not the language itself.
>>516200433Commas are used to indicate where natural breaks in thoughts/speaking naturally occur so that you know when to parse a sentence fragment as its own thing or part of a compound sentence
>>516204274Yes but you don't need it if you have an inflected language. Commas are a crutch which was invented and inserted into English after it lost its inflections. Old English was much richer grammatically. The fact alone that commas don't transfer to speech is a testament to the poverty of this system.
>>516202024>>516202835Also another thing I thought about right now. A language which relies on a pause to convey something rather than an infection, is a language prone to manipulation. By this I mean this, say for example that someone says in speech:>Let's eat, grandma.Then someone in court or a journalist could say in writing>He said "Let's eat grandma.".or he could be paraphrasing the former person in speech or writing saying "He said they should eat their grandma.", and this latter person would technically not be lying, because there is no rule which says that when the pause in>Let's eat, grandma. / Let's eat grandma.is the same length of time as three syllables, then it's a comma, and when it's the length of time as one syllable, then it's without comma, or anything of the kind.By contrast, if someone says in speech>Avia edamus. you cannot say, in either speech or writing, that they said>Aviam edamus.and vice versa, without lying.This is basically the motte-and-bailey tactic, and lawyers, politicians, journalists etc do in fact use this kind of manipulation A LOT.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacyThis begs the question if this could have something to do with the gradual simplification of languages, and the decline of Latin and Greek, in favor of English. In other words, when a poorer language can be used to enslave the masses, did the desire to enslave them contribute to this development in languages?https://youtu.be/qxOJ4p8e7NQhttps://youtu.be/2_gnZj7gbnQ
>>516205882Your issue is definitely with writing and not with language.
>This begs the question if this could have something to do with the gradual simplification of languages, and the decline of Latin and Greek, in favor of English.*This begs the question if this could have something to do with the gradual simplification of languages, and the decline of Latin and Greek in favor of English.
bump
>>516206089i believe its the simplification, and rejection of 'effort posting' in short. the ticktock brain is the newest manifest, the need for immediate and constant dopamine bursts and rejection of long, drawn out and deep thought. resulting in the inability to pull from the abstract.[insert current language] will always be able to add and expand new words as long as a framework is built in. conversely, that means it can just as easily be ham-stringed if the proper forces are applied to it.
>>516206016I don't agree with your idea that writing isn't language. However this is not limited to writing, as you would know if you had actually read the post you replied to. I said:>someone says in speech:>>Let's eat, grandma.>Then someone in court or a journalist could say in writing>>He said "Let's eat grandma.".>or he could be paraphrasing the former person in SPEECH or writing
>>516202830kids with high IQ will hope that other people can do what they do, and figure out if something is a question from basic context. So much of "autism" and "aspergers" and "the empathy gap" is literally just midwits not understanding that they can't be FUCKED to dumb themselves down all the time
>>516206916It's illogical to disagree. There are plenty of people and in fact entire cultures that have language and have never even conceived of writing. That proves that these are separate.
>>516206835Watch the first video I posted. This simplification is a gradual process that has been going on ever since Proto-Indo-European. And no, it's not something we can just choose to undo any moment. The lost inflections are a more or less permanent change, as in it's not a matter of just taking the time to effortpost, it's an actual simplification of the grammar, not just a simplification of the writings and speeches people produce, but of the language itself. Even if you wanted to write something today in English with the same complexity as in Old English, you couldn't do it, because the tools are gone.
>>516207372Well, we have writing and we are using writing only on this board, so that's what I'm concerned with, writing and speech alike, really not interested in your deflection from the actual topic. Bring an actual argument to the table. The Bible is writing, so your point is nothing but deflection. You didn't even address the point I made in the last post you replied to. You have nothing.
Autists are a menace, especially high-functioning ones. They probably don't do much, but those fuckers are quick to notice sociopaths and subversion from a mile away. They always ask inconvenient questions as to why something has to be done or if it benefits them in some way. Can't deal with those fuckers.
>>516207735
>>516207729The Bible is written in many different ways, and even can be written in ways that it hasn't yet been written in because English can be written in many different ways. You say you're complaining about English, but you get offended when you're correctly criticized for complaining about the standard English writing system. You're confused about your complaints.
>>516207735Explain your picture. And where is it from?
>>516208152I pointed out how it's in speech too. You don't read anything I post and you have nothing of substance related to the actual topic of the thread. No, I'm not offended in the slightest by your vacuous posts.
>>516202835>>516201931I agree with your point, but learning the Latin grammar is just torture. English is much simpler, even if it lacks sophistication. This is why it has become the "lingua franca" of this world, ironically displacing the original lingua franca, aka. French.
>>516208615Well, this thread isn't really about lingua francas, what's the relevance to the topic of the thread?I'm a beginner in Latin and I agree that it seems like it can be difficult to learn. Regarding that I have two things to say. The first is that it doesn't really matter to me, because there is joy in the learning itself and you don't need to feel pressure, you can just go about it little by little. And secondly this difficulty of fusional languages such as Latin is why I find agglutinated languages very interesting, they have all of the advantages of fusional languages but are much easier to learn.
>>516200433>who>what>when>where>why>howwow, i solved prosody
>>516209505What?
>>516201107And thinking beyond language is how you ascend its restraints.
>>516209286Lingua franca is tangential to your point. Easy language = widespread, hard language = not so widespread. Hence, trying to "fix" english by making it closer to Latin, even though that would be good, might not find much popularity among the unwashed masses.
>>516201107>>516209750>fuck grammar and language and rules and shitthis guy is right>>516204017
>>516200433Now this is a properly autismal scandinavian thread. Autism is a master race trait of germanics
>>516201531Based average German
>>516209841I'm not trying to fix English, nor do I care what language is lingua franca. Even when Latin was more widely used it was the language of intellectual affairs, not the language of everyday life. They had Latin, and when they replaced it with English they had to invent the crutch of the comma to cope with its poverty, but then they deflect and say the poverty lies in the minds of those with Asperger instead, pure projection.
>>516210248what exactly is your point then?I reread your OP and I do not quite see for (or against) what you are argumenting
>>516200433We literally have this in English, it's just in the form of suffixes. We have entire words that do this:A sentence that starts with the word "why" is a question. There are a bunch of words that have this same function, like "is", "who", "what", "are", etc. English doesn't rely on prosody very much at all, most prosody is simply just an accent. It's purely cosmetic outside of a few select words.An actual example of languages that rely on prosody are the Asian languages. There's a bunch of words whose meanings are entirely dependent on the pitch and intonation. For example, in Japanese the word for "bridge" is Hashi and the word for "chopsticks" is Hashi. Bridge/Hashi starts low and the pitch raises.Chopsticks/Hashi the pitch starts high and decreases. These sorts of things don't really exist in English. You don't see that in the words to, two, and too. Or pear and pair, or see and sea and c. And the meaning of a sentence/word is derived from the context. Beyond that, most of the sentences that rely on prosody in English are informal. For example "We going to the store?" This is an informal question formatted as a statement with a question mark and the question mark is implied through inflection at the end of the sentence. This sort of informality exists in all languages.
>>516209857Language is a tool used to communicate and I respect it in that regard.I was simply stating people thinking with language are putting restraints upon themselves.My post wasn't directly on topic.
>>516204093The fuck we don’t. The fucktards who reorganized the DSM-V can go fuck themselves. Those Perpetual Victims who lobbied to change Asperger’s, Autism, PDD-NOS to Autism Spectrum Disorder were fucking retards. They shouldn’t be under one classification umbrella - they are distinct, separate clusters.They should have just renamed Asperger’s if it was making them too butthurt.But no, they fucked up the nomenclature for distinct conditions. And made up some bullshit story that it would provide better access to services and therapeutic techniques.
>>516210459My point can be summed up as such:>The wikipedia article on Asperger syndrome says that those who have Asperger syndrome have a poor ability to produce and perceive prosody. But the truth of the matter is that a language which is dependent on prosody for conveying information is a poor language.
>>516210519Prosody is more than intonation.Prosody is just as important in English as in Asian languages.>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MZmKXBIakYou know when people mimic Japanese people speaking English, they're mimicking the prosody.>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-mw8JFPOCg&t=127When black people rap it's pretty much prosody.
>>516210519I elaborated for example here>>516201931>>516202222>>516202272>>516202835>>516205882this guy also argued my point>>516204017
>>516211145Should we learn and use Latin over English today?Would Latin become bastardized because of the masses """learning""" Latin?What kind of Latin?Church LatinVulgar LatinClassical Latin
>>516200433This is not always the case; there are rare exceptions of people with functional Asperger syndrome who participate in social life but do not feel comfortable there. Nevertheless, their poor language skills are pronounced.
>>516209609You're going to the store is a statementAre you going to the store is a questionWho is going to the storeetcYou don't need magical melodies to understand if the sentence is a question if you actually use the words that exist
>>516211538Before they combined it into general "ASD" Aspergers was specifically there to highlight kids with high verbal IQ, their language skills exceed that of other people. Being anti or asocial is not the same as not having language skills
>>516200433in Russian you inflect the verb when asking instead of the terminal term. like when asking Do you understand in English? You inflect Understand rather than English
>>516211675Knowing a language and using it without making people feel strange are two different things.They have very good analytical skills, but they cannot integrate them into social interactions or see through people's bullshit from a mile away.
>>516211003But it's really not though. In the example of someone mimicking Japanese, they're mimicking the intonation. Or more accurately, they're mimicking the stress placed on syllables. Stressing different syllables creates different accents. This is the same for every language on the planet.>>516211145Those examples only really work in written English. In spoken English it doesn't exist. This is because spoken English has a certain context that is lost in written English. If I'm in a room of people, and I say "Let's go eat grandma" everyone knows what I'm saying. If you look at the written sentence, we're eating grandma. But everyone in the room knows we're taking grandma out to eat.But the problem with the sentence, and the point being made, "Let's go eat, Grandma" is an informal sentence. Grandma belongs at the front of the sentence. Grandma is the subject of the sentence. It should be "Grandma, let's go eat." There's zero room for confusion here with, or without the the comma. The point being made only exists in informal sentences. Informal sentences in real life don't rely on the prosody, they rely on the context of the situation. Every language has this issue though. Even Latin, it has informal speech where rules are omitted and the meaning of the sentence becomes ambiguous to anyone who doesn't understand the context.
>>516211397I don't care, but it benefits you personally to learn classical Latin. A good place to start ishttps://archive.org/details/familia-romanahttps://archive.org/download/familia-romana-and-colloquia-personarum-audio-filesIt also benefits you to learn ancient Greek, Sanskrit, and other classical rich langages.
>>516211566see >>516201538and >>516211145
>>516212092"Let's go eat, Grandma." is not informal, it's just English, nor is there a rule which says it should be "Grandma, let's go eat." in formal language, you're making things up and deflecting.Reliance on context for meaning does not contribute to your point, but rather to my point. There is also nothing which says there is automatically more context present in spoken language than in written language. No, Latin doesn't have as much dependence on context as English. Furthermore I made a point about how this lack of overt communication can be used for manipulation.
>>516212775There is a rule. The rule is that the subject goes at the beginning of the sentence. The dog ate the bone. The dog is the subject, ate is the verb, the bone is the object. English is a subject verb object language. In the sentence "Let's go eat, Grandma." Grandma is the subject of the sentence. She belongs at the beginning of the sentence. It should be "Grandma, let's go eat." She is the subject because she is the one eating, she is the one doing the verb, which means she's the subject.The same applies to "Let's eat grandma" and Let's eat, Grandma." In the second example, Grandma is the subject, she will be eating too. She belongs at the beginning of the sentence. In the first example, she is the object to be eaten. She belongs at the end of the sentence. If you don't understand the basic rules of English, don't criticize it. >There is also nothing which says there is automatically more context present in spoken language than in written language.This is stupid. I'm not going to argue with you if you're going to be intentionally stupid. Spoken language has the context of the events happening. Written language does not.There's a reason informal language loses its meaning in the written form. It's because it lacks the context of the experience. And there's a reason written language has things like commas and apostrophes. ALL languages have these problems, if you can even call it a problem.
>>516200433>assburgersLmaooo
Latin doesn't mark prepositional phrases for which noun they're referring to. Apparently agglutinative languages do.>Give me an x-ray of a kangaroo with three legs.Is the prepositional phrase "with three legs" referring to "kangaroo" or to "x-ray"? In both English and Latin you don't know.Yet another reason why agglutinative languages are interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibologyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangling_modifierhttps://youtu.be/-OuEZSDus5g>Yesterday I saw an eagle looking out of my bedroom window.This sentence is syntactically ambiguous but I don't think this is a prepositional phrase problem but rather the problem is that you don't know if "looking" is referring to "I" or "eagle", and here I think Latin would disambiguate by inflecting "looking", picrel is all the inflections of the Latin word for "look".
They say i got assburgers but i have high prosodyPsych science is fucking bogusThey say i got no filter but im just Ditch.
>>516201931>avia est iumentumcould mean either:>grandma is eating a beast of burden>grandma is a beast of burdenthe neuter noun 'iumentum' has the same ending in both the nominative and the accusative so it can't help you hereto be sure which statement is intended you would need to know the vowel length of the e in 'est' - whether it is pronounced long or short
>>516202222>>516202272>hey grok im too lazy and retarded to engage in critical thinking, spoonfeed me all of my opinions
>>516215849The sentence is formatted incorrectly, because again, the sentence is informal. It works in everyday conversation because everyone understands the context. "Yesterday I was looking out of my bedroom window, and saw an eagle." Is the correctly formatted sentence.There are two clauses. "Yesterday I was looking out of my bedroom window" with and supporting clause "And saw an eagle".Yet again, the problem you are highlighting only exists in sentences which are improperly formatted, which would result in a failing grade in a college English 101 course. If you format your sentences properly and follow the rules of English, your problem disappears.
>>516210519I'll read and read until I've read. Lead and lead are two other words written the same. If you say the wrong one it's confusing.
>>516214161You are very confused about grammar, and lack knowledge of grammar.>In the sentence "Let's go eat, Grandma." Grandma is the subject of the sentence.No. That sentence is an example of a vocative expression. Latin has a case for this called the vocative case, English doesn't and uses a comma to set the person being addressed apart, while Latin uses inflection to distinguish between grandma as object in the accusative case, vs grandma as being addressed in the vocative case.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocative_expressionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocative_caseEnglish used to indicate the vocative with an "O"https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2015/08/27/what-happened-to-o
>>516200433>use “ne” for a question I notice that Germans do that too, when speaking German. English with use “right” sometimes
>>516200433I'm autistic and definitely have poor prosody - all my life people have remarked at my monotone. Yet I have also been told I have a commanding and eloquent voice. From my point of view, I do intone, just subtly. When I try to intone as others do I feel like an actor. And when I hear others, I tend to confuse "excitement" (any raised pitch or volume) with anger. I have a calm way of speaking.
>>516218375https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vocative_casehttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/O#Particle
Read through the whole thread now. I'll also admit that my speech often contains "odd" pauses. I'm making real time decisions on how I want my speech to sound, and of what words to choose, to precisely convey what I wish to convey.
>>516201531Based
>>516218744Can you give an example or a few examples of how it looks in German?in Latin>Italia in Europa est.Italy is in Europe.>Estne Italia in Europa?Is Italy in Europe?https://archive.org/details/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata_202506/Lingua%20Lat%C4%ABna%20per%20s%C4%93%20ill%C5%ABstr%C4%81ta/Pars%20I/Familia%20R%C5%8Dm%C4%81na/
>>516200433There is an 'autistic accent' that I've noticed. I think it's because when we learn language, we are doing more echolalia rather than just acquiring the native language in the same way that NTs do, so you speak in a way that seems alien to normies (either too monotone or stresses and high intonations where they shouldn't naturally be).In my last book, I tried to get that across in writing for an autistic character. The book is called NSFW if anyone is interested, this is the Amazon link:https://www.amazon.com/NSFW-Other-Stories-Jamie-ONeill-ebook/dp/B0FHTBZ11Y/
>>516201531now I just say problem
Often?Fun thing about english is most if not all questions can use an interrogative and then there is no need for inflections! Try it out for yourself!
>>516220764I don’t think it is written. Just spoken. >boa du bist bescheuert. Ne?English>wow you are a retard. Right?
i can ask a question without a question mark. i do it all the time! what the fuck are you doing retard
>>516218375>>https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2015/08/27/what-happened-to-oI linked this without reading it. Seems like a pretty worthless article. Couldn't be bothered to finish reading it.
>>516216842There are cases where all English has to its disposal to disambiguate is commas, where Latin uses inflection to disambiguate. This is not only in informal language. To get back to the original point I made in the OP, >isn't dependence on prosody for conveying information really a sign that the language is poor?prosody is something which only applies to spoken language. One example of where prosody is used to disambiguate in spoken English is in>Picturam puellae ridentis pinxit.He painted a picture of the girl laughing.>Picturam puellae ridens pinxit.He painted a picture of the girl, laughingYou didn't address that post.>>516202835inb4: it's informalIt might be the case that there is more ambiguity in informal English than in formal English, however you say that all languages have this same thing. I don't think so because Latin is inflected regardless of whether it's informal or formal. You will have the distinction ridentis vs ridens regardless.
what even the fuck is this thread
>>516210519This. Im an autist and if you worry about being misunderstood it's easy enough to word things in a way that leaves no room for ambiguity.
>>516226020And yet, a comma is faster than if you added inflection to English. Why must we make extra sounds instead of just adding a pause or a change in pitch. The Chinese use pitch shifts to differentiate words. A comma is more space efficient to type than adding a new inflection.
>>516200433>You are going to the storeStatement, if ever used as a question universally awkward and frankly incorrect usage if not syntax. Only use case as a question is stereotypical insertion of foreign grammar models by ESL speakers.>Are you going to the store?Unambiguously a question, cannot functionally be used as a statement.So autists are just fucking idiots who then rationalize their own dumb way of doing things by driving down idiotic rabbit holes?
>>516226944>>516227406the point I made in the OP:>isn't dependence on prosody for conveying information really a sign that the language is poor?Prosody is something which only applies to spoken language. One example of where prosody is used to disambiguate in spoken English is in>Picturam puellae ridentis pinxit.He painted a picture of the girl laughing.>Picturam puellae ridens pinxit.He painted a picture of the girl, laughing
>>516227884Give me an example of a question that would be ambiguous in spoken English without prosidy instead of spamming your Latin bullshit that we all read and understand
>>516204017Only one sensible post and one sensible person in this whole thread. The ego investment and denial is strong. Utter cattle. Oh well, they can keep speaking nothing but their pleb language. My next project is learning Sanskrit.https://in.yoga/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/A._M._Ruppel_The_Cambridge_Introduction_to_Sanskz-lib.org_.pdf
>>516228501
>>516227884>He painted a picture of the girl laughingPoor usage, ESL coded>He painted a picture of the laughing girl>He painted a picture of the girl, laughingThis is prosaic language. It deliberately pushes the boundaries of usage to achieve an artistic effect that appeals to advance English capability and tickle fluency>He laughed as he painted a picture of the girlIs proper usage.
>>516228775This is actually why adjectives come before nouns in English, to promote syntactical clarity in sentence structure. English evolved from multiple, conflicting grammar systems so its usage evolved towards clarity not away from it.In artistic and casual speech conventions are subverted and that’s what autists struggle with I suppose.
>>516227884Yet it’s shown with punctuation in written language. So there is no issue, why do you need to add some extra autistic sounds after a word, instead of just using prosody in spoken, and punctuation in written. Theres nothing poor about it, Chinese tones are only in the spoken language but they have no problem conveying the information in written language.
>>516200433shit thread>people with autism have difficultiesok>latin is less dependent on prosody than Englishsure>latin is a richer language (because of this)lol no>english uses punctuation and prosody to make up for question particleall languages have their complexities. prosody isn't inherently inferior to question particles.
>>516200433Are you the nigger from the /lit/ thread that was complaining about commas?Interrogative questions generally start with "who, what, where, when, how, why" which help in spoken communication. There is also context and as mentioned prosody or tonality. Inflection is not exclusive to English, many other languages rely on tonal changes to convey completely distinct meanings, Chinese is a big one. >>516202835Ok so you either are the guy or you're just continuing the thread here. The point about syntax vs semantics is irrelevant because in application this problem doesn't exist due to the auditory equivalent of a pause as well as having better suited options for conveying a message out loud. >He painted a picture of the girl, laughingWhile laughing, he painted a picture of the girl As he was laughing he painted a picture of the girl In the midst of laughter he painted a picture of the girl Laughing, he painted a picture of the girl Choices are made whether conscious or unconscious for phrasing with consideration to the medium being used and if someone has to narrate a passage which contains the phrase "He painted a picture of the girl, laughing" they can either take a pause or they can substitute the comma after girl with the word "while" which in effect conveys an identical meaning.
I once met a linguist working at SAP. He had made it to head of the ABAP group, SAP's programming language. Linguist.. language.. get it, get it? Well I guess you need to know a little about programming in general and maybe a little about ABAP to really get it. I don't think he ever realized what a colossal joke that was hahaha.
Okay listen:It's okay to listenIf you listen to the OkayBecause we listen to listeningTo okay what is okay>>Mike drop
A lot of people seem to make the mistake of thinking that the more complex the grammar (rules) of a language are, the better. The complexity of the thought being expressed is what matters, and language is just a medium.
