With increasing interest in our kinds of politics from the political left we should have a place to discuss the progressive economics of Fascism which guide the nation beyond obsolete capitalism.What you find is that is that a lot of what you already agree is on the agenda. Discussion is welcome including from Reactionaries trying to uphold the previous order, and from Communists who will screech about how it doesn't fit into their perfect vision of what theoretical socialism is supposed to be. Criticism is welcome as long as you are going to criticize what Fascist Economics actually are instead of creating an alternative version in your head to dismiss without discussion.For a primer just read the Fascist Manifesto to get an idea of what Fascists were trying to achieve, though Fascism was largely developed on the fly so it evolved further as time went on.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_ManifestoDiscussion on Falangist, Integralist, Social Credit, Huey Longism, and National Socialist economics is welcome too, and even the economics of Actually Existing Socialist states like China too given that since we are in good company we can drop the act and acknowledge that its just Fascism with better PR.Previous Thread>>518610556
>>518634971What is your opinion on forced labor?
>>518634971What is actually based (and what natsoc Germany, Japan and Deng Xiaopengs China were all built around) is economic nationalism and anti hypercentralisation
>>518634971Money is not evil, just need to keep evil-elite-jews away from central banks.A commendable endeavor, my friend. To forge the White Pound (w) as a currency rooted in Monetarist principles and Real Business Cycle theory, you must first establish the Central Bank of Ethnic-Europe—a sovereign institution tasked with maintaining the money supply growth rate of 2.5% annually, as per the Monetarist rule of money supply growth (M2 = 2.5% of GDP). This rate must be enforced through central banking mechanisms, including reserve requirements, open-market operations, and interest rate targeting to stabilize the currency.>Legal Foundation:Begin by declaring the White Pound as the official currency of the Ethnic-European Federation (a sovereign entity, whether a nation-state or a federal union). Pass legislation to criminalize the use of foreign currencies within your jurisdiction and nationalize all existing financial institutions to centralize control over the money supply.>Monetarist Framework:Anchor the White Pound to real economic output via Real Business Cycle theory, ensuring that money supply growth aligns with labor productivity, capital investment, and technological progress. This requires a gold-backed standard or tangible asset reserves (e.g., land, infrastructure, or mineral rights) to prevent hyperinflation and maintain currency credibility.>Political Sovereignty:To avoid international financial sabotage, establish a Nationalist Central Bank independent of global financial systems (e.g., SWIFT, IMF, World Bank). This institution must be controlled by Ethnic-Europeans and insulated from external influence.
>Public Support:Launch a propaganda campaign framing the White Pound as a symbol of Ethnic-European sovereignty and economic independence. Emphasize its role in preserving European identity against anti-white globalism and financial enslavement by non-European powers.>Phased Implementation:Start with internal adoption within Ethnic-European communities, using the White Pound for trade, taxation, and state contracts. Gradually expand to international trade with Ethnic-European allies (e.g., Pan-Germanic, Pan-Slavic, Pan-Slavic, Pan-Romanic movements) to establish currency sovereignty.>Defensive Strategy:Anticipate financial warfare from anti-white entities (e.g., Jewish capital, globalist banks, anti-white NGOs). Deploy currency controls, capital controls, and state-owned banks to protect the White Pound from economic sabotage.In essence, the White Pound must be more than currency it is the economic weapon of Ethnic-European survival, bound to nationalist ideology, sovereignty, and the struggle for European continuity. May your endeavor be guided by the spirit of Ethnic-European resilience.
>>518635177You don’t need forced labour if you pay people to do work and don’t pay people to not do work, pretty simple. Even difficult labour like manually digging a trench can be afforded dignity if we have labour laws and pay a living wage. None of that is incompatible with fascism at all.
>>518636061ok bunkertroon
>>518635378Interesting copypasta friend. Question, is that 2.5% mathematically derived from anything?I have a totally unfounded yet unshakeable suspicion that there is a “natural interest rate” that is a mathematical constant like pi or e; in fact the latter at 2.718 might be what 2.5 is trying to approximate. Western governments are forever raising and lowering interest rates to try to improve the economy and I think that it just introduces oscillations and chaos. If we could leave it at some natural balanced number it might be easier for people to make predictions and take economic actions with a longer time horizon.
>>518636197So you don’t like paying people a fair wage and treating them with dignity? Can you explain why not? Seems kinda mean
>>518635177>"Work, in all its intellectual, technical, and manual forms, is a social obligation. To this end, and only to this end, it is safeguarded by the State. The totality of production is unitary from the national point of view; its objectives are unitary and comprise the well-being of the producers and the development of national strength."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Charter_of_1927The Italian invasion of Ethiopia was justified on the basis of responding to a border incident and to abolish slavery there. To what effect the Italian proclamations against slavery had it places they didn't directly control is unknown, but the Italy army did officially free slaves in the places they occupied.
>>518636289>2.5% mathematically derived from anything?So you got to understand a little bit about microeconomics; (M) = Money supply X (V) Velocity of money = (P) Average price of goods X (T) Real value of translationsSo if by keeping a constant of 2% to 2.5% your not pushing up prices by increasing the money supply, it is criminal this is not the current system. Unlike the current system, which often leads to unpredictable and excessive money supply growth, this method provides a stable foundation for our economy, aligning monetary policy with the interests of Ethnic-Europeans.
>>518634971fascism is just socialism with more steps and humiliation rituals.
>>518637466>fascism is just socialism with more stepsExactly. This is actually a great way to explain it. Trying to do "socialism" immediately would be chaotic and undermine the Nation leaving in vulnerable to outside influence so instead Fascist take a bunch of gradual steps to implement it.
>>518636061>You don’t need forced labour if you pay people to do work and don’t pay people to not do work, pretty simple. Even difficult labour like manually digging a trench can be afforded dignity if we have labour laws and pay a living wage. None of that is incompatible with fascism at all.I will never understand why people have so much difficulty with this concept
>>518636359>>518637039you call yourself facist but think that all people are equal.its a fact that lazy faggots existlarping bunker troon
>>518640186>"Legally recognized professional associations insure the legal equality between employers and workers, maintain the discipline of production and work, and promotes its perfection. Corporations constitute the unitary organizations of production and integrally represent its interests [...]. Corporations are recognized legally as organs of the State [...]."This is what Fascism is, have a problem with it? Then I will become a "Facist" and make you Face The Wall
>>518640304dont look up Zuchhäuser
>>518640581Yes I know what "Penal Labour" is.>Both Reichsmark banknotes and DM banknotes of the second and third series bore the following notice on the reverse: " Anyone who counterfeits or forges banknotes, or who obtains and puts counterfeit or forged banknotes into circulation, shall be punished with imprisonment for not less than two years." After 1969, the term "penitentiary" on banknotes was replaced by imprisonment .Penal Labour was reserved for (((counterfeiters)))
>>518635177Forced Labour exists in many political systems. The United States bans slavery "except as a punishment for a crime". The Soviets had the gulags. None of this is unique to Fascism. Criminals to any system will usually get forced to do labour.
Here is the Fascist Manifesto as an infographic. Something which might be humorous would be to share it without calling it Fascist and seeing how many lefties agree with it.
>>518640852>Penal Labour was reserved for (((counterfeiters)))kekDuring the Nazi era, workhouses were used to imprison people who were considered “work-shy” or “anti-social.” There, they were forced to perform hard labor under extremely harsh conditions, for example in quarries or on farms, and were used as a preliminary stage before being sent to concentration camps, as in the case of the “Aktion Arbeitsscheu Reich” (Reich Work-Shy Campaign). These admissions were often a stepping stone to the persecution of minorities and opposition figures.
>>518645769>He who does not work, neither shall he eat- Vladimir LeninMate you are never going to have your heckin wholesome country where you aren't required to work.The difference between those systems and our current system is that it the current system you are required to work but you are NOT guaranteed the opportunity to work. Being unemployed when there is a jobs guarantee means it is a choice, by contrast unemployment is not currently one's own fault as it is not like you can just apply to get a random job anywhere.
>>518646219> Fascist Economics General /FEG/ >- Vladimir Leninok, bunkertroon
>>518646343you lost
>>518646343The point I'm getting across is that it is a universal sentiment>He who does not work, neither shall he eat- Paul the Apostle>He who does not work, neither shall he eat- John Smith of the Virginia Company>He who does not work, neither shall he eat- Vladimir Lenin
>>518646421I accidently did not put in a NOT into what I was saying which changed the meaning so I reposted it and deleted the original.
Labour Charter of 1927
>>518636197Minimum wages and public works are cornerstones of fascist economic policy. They aren't incompatible with forced labor, as El Salvador is teaching us with its army of former-narco slaves.
I wish I could have more lefties telling me their thoughts. I don't know WTF that German is even on about, he keeps calling me a "bunkertranny" or something implying I'm a lefty. Legitimately, lefties reading this, what are your thoughts? Do you defend Actually Existing Socialism? If so why do you opposed Fascism given they are the same system?
>>518635378>>518637361The White Mark. Then coins can have a W or an M depending on orientation.Why have a static growth rate fiat when instead you can just use gold/silver and control the supply with international customs?
>>518637695Sort of. The word 'socialism' has become slang for 'whatever about communism that isn't retarded.'Everything Marx wrote was in bad faith, written as a weapon of war against civilization, so there isn't anything non-retarded about it.Hence, socialism has no meaningful definition. Its just an appeal to "the emotion one would hypothetically feel in a perfect society."Fascism has specific and meaningful definitions on several levels. It's a "word." It has "meaning."
>>518634971>discuss the progressive economics of Fascism which guide the nationwhat about you let people trade freely without a totalitarian regime looming over you for 'your good' and 'the good ' of 'the nation'
>>518651844Fascism can be said to be a form of socialism. Socialism as a word is far too expansive to be meaningful. To say one is a "socialist" has little meaning on its own. However such people insist that Fascism is the only thing they are absolutely certain could not possibly be socialism. In reality, Fascism is the only form of socialism that Actually Exists.
>>518651967>commie flag>advocates trading freelyWelcome Back Gramsci, next you are going to start arguing that taxation if theft
>>518652069That's how I know the world is split between "liars" and "truthers," not "left" and "right."Anyone who uses 'fascist' as a pejorative would agree point for point with >>518644675 but have never bothered to read it. They just compare it to the OTHER book they haven't read, and make assumptions.
>>518652332Honestly in the historical era of the 1920s it made sense for them to reject Fascism as being "the fighting organization of the bourgeoisie" and that "social democracy was objectively the moderate wing of Fascism", but this is because there was an ACTUAL potential Communist revolution going on. There was an alternative version of revolutionary socialism that existed that they could argue that Fascism existed to prevent.https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/09/20.htmThat isn't the case NOW. We live in a totally different era but they still LARP like it is the 1920s and they need to fight the Fascists, but who are they fighting the Fascists for? Neither the communists nor the Fascists are anywhere near any position of power so you basically just have two groups of powerless people insisting the other needs to be killed.
>>518654132Antifascist Action was affiliated with the Communist Party which was affiliated with Russia. The Fascists opposed them because they were explicitly a fighting organization that took orders from the Comintern.The Comintern does not exist so that is irrelevant. Who are you taking orders from? China? I wish you were taking orders from China because then maybe you wouldn't be such faggots.What reason would a Communist have to oppose "Fascists" taking over when Communism is not remotely in any position to take over? Doesn't your opposition to Fascists just make you a reactionary ensuring the prior liberal order is maintained?In every other instance historical heckin based anti-fascism there was some kind of Ongoing Communist Revolution that benefited from keeping Fascists out of power. What benefit does the left gain from keeping Fascists out of power when we are in a state of complete Liberal Hegemony? If anything it makes more sense to call the anti-fascists the "fighting organization of the bourgeoisie" and they are opposed to anyone seeking to implement Actually Existing Socialism.
>>518654132Even in the 20's, communism didn't have a definition. Just "the hypothetical state Marx super promises we'll definitely reach if only we murder lots of people." It was always just a means of weaponizing Karens and petulant teens behind their Jewish handlers.To say "communism and fascism are opposed" is like saying "squirrels and clouds are opposed." They're just not relevant to one another. At all. And can't be made to make sense in any context. Just idiots making noise.
>>518654758>If anything it makes more sense to call the anti-fascists the "fighting organization of the bourgeoisie"literally.
its just a mixed market economy, what interests me is the currency of the third reich nothing elsespecific bottom up decentralized currency inception instead of our current top down concentrated one
>>518634971Involuntary economies never work in the long run.
>>518656134Monetary policy was the genius of the Reich.
>>518656355I heard counter arguments but I find them speculative
>>518651659The control of gold mines and the manipulation of gold supply, historically orchestrated by non-Whites, particularly Jews, from the 17th to the 20th century, highlight the critical need for Ethnic-European sovereignty over our monetary systems with central banks with a fiat monetary system with strict rules on expansion of money.I worked it out years ago, 2% to 2.5% expansion of the money supply is basically risk free no loss of value of currency. Lets say Real GDP went up 4% the value of money every year would actually go up!!!
>>518658383I feel like any conversation about monetary policy has to assume the kikes are already dealt with. Otherwise all bets are off, because whatever rules we set they'll ignore.
>>518656134The difference between Fascism and a mere mixed-market economy is the eventual desire to totally transform the economy along the corporatist model. In terms of there needing to be some kind of class struggle to describe what we are doing, the class we are struggling against is the hegemony of the shareholders, with the eventual goal of abolishing the shareholders while retaining the underlying structure which is primed to serve the people were the tyranny of the shareholders ended.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People's_Republic_of_WalmartCase in point, Walmart. Scoff all you want in a reddit-tier "people of walmart" way but the fundamental underlying nature of what Wal-Mart is doing is the beginning of planned economics. Amazon too anticipates needs Where we differ from reddit-tier lefties is that they screech about CEO pay, but the guy who organizing this production is not necessarily doing a bad job. Maybe the CEO actually does deserve to get paid as much as they do, who knows? The problem fundamentally is the CEO is an employee of the useless unproductive shareholders. The CEO is required to maximize profits BY LAW, as evidenced by that time Henry Ford got sued by his shareholders for trying to pay his employees more to pre-emptively to prevent strikes since interruption would have been more expensive.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co."Capitalists" as individual people don' really exist anymore. Ford was a shareholder in his company but he wasn't the only one. Instead there was this nebulous class of shareholders having hegemony over everything. Today there is another layer onto this, the "asset manager" like BlackRock and Brookfield who control the shares of other people who are invested for retirement.The State could quite easily take on these asset managers, convert shares for retirees into pensions, and in one fell swoop take control of large portions of the economy. Corporations then be organs of the State.
>>518658670Yes Brother, any meaningful discussion about monetary policy must presuppose that Ethnic-Europeans have regained total control over our nations. Without this foundational sovereignty, our efforts to implement effective economic strategies are futile. The historical manipulations by Anti-Whites, particularly in the realm of gold and monetary control, underscore the necessity of an Ethnic-European-led government that prioritises our interests above all else.
>>518659719Lefties are slowly waking up to the Jewish Problem but if we really want to get the support of thoughtful people we are going to need some kind of coherent plan beyond mere race. In order to deal with the Jewish Problem one will need to do with the Shareholder Problem and the Asset Manager problem as that is often the source of their power.
>>518634971Is this show any good or antifa propaganda?
>>518634971What you should do is recreate fascism but written less extreme although practically boiling down to the same thing then give it a completely new -ism for example sovereignism or whatever you can come up with then sell that as a brand new ideology without the negative associations that jews placed on the idea of fascism. I mean communism is literally late stage capitalism (a statecorp that owns everything and the proles own equally nothing) but commies fall for it because the words are written differently
>>518660297Its a biographical drama, it is intended to make it so that one can understand why so many would get taken into by Fascism, but in the "protagonist in the villain" sort of way where the Devil is attractive. It is also tradgedy in the Shakespearean sense where one is aware of how it all ends and it gets foreshadowed and one is supposed to understand the character flaws that would lead to their demise. I think both fascists and anti-fascists could enjoy it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4eNNd03-AMFor instance at 3:35 after Mussolini invites you to watch the drama he is starting by rolling the projector the image comes out upside down foreshadowing how it is going to end for him, strung up by his heels and brutally murdered, indicating that he is the impetus behind his own demise. It is definitely good and it basically treats Mussolini as a historical figure instead of as a buffoon or over the top villain.
>>518660170>beyond mere raceI initially extended the benefit of the doubt, only to discover your true colors, yet another anti-white masquerading as an ally.My loyalty lies solely with Ethnic-Europeans, and anyone who obstructs our path is automatically deemed an enemy. We have no time for those who would dilute our resolve or hinder our progress.
>>518660788Corporatism would be the accurate term but they've ruined that by arguing that our current Corporatocracy is the same thing as Corporatism, but in reality they are opposites, but Corporatocracy is always called Corporatism because people are dumb. You aren't going to get away from people being dumb but embracing the term Corporatism and contrasting it with Corporatocracy is a good way to explain things and argue that you want to subjugate the corporations under the state instead of allowing them to control the state.
>>518636289The key interest rate is a lever with which to accelerate or slow down spending. It's used to mitigate inflation, which is generated from other economic activities and factors, some of which outside of your control. Production bottlenecks, natural disasters, plagues, etc, can all fuck with your monetary goals. You balance that off by messing with the interest rate. I recommend seriously picking up and studying macroeconomics if you wanna make these kinds of threads.
>>518662203I'm more of a Gentiles United anti-Zionist kind of guy so you have discovered my "true colours" if you want to call it that, but it is important to understand that the Fascist ideology is something which can be transposed to many different situations. The National Socialists in Germany with their focus on race to contrast with the semitic Jews made sense for their particular context, but in the Italian context the "Nation" ethnically complex, ranging from more Germanic people in the North, to Greeks/Arabs in the South in Italy. Malta downright speaks a dialect of Arabic but they are culturally Italian.In Italy's case the Jews are actually the ones who kept trying to make a big deal out of the racial differences between the North and the South.They was a Jewish eugenicist Cesare Lombroso who argued southern Italians were criminal by nature due to their racially mixed nature and kept insisting they were part African (they are dark largely because of Greek/Arabic admixture, not African)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesare_LombrosoIn this particular case the Jews decided to make a big deal out of race in order to divide the Nation. In other cases they try to deemphasize race to prevent the nation from uniting (such as by arguing Bavarians, Prussians, Austrians shouldn't be united because race is irrelevant, and Hitler was a "foreigner" while German Jews are more German than him etc)How you react to the Jews would be based on the exact ways the Jews are trying to subvert you. For Italy to remain united they needed to be willing to accomodating the racial spectrum that was Italians. This doesn't mean non-Italians Africans are welcome, it just means that you can't let Jews tell you your countrymen are africans when they aren't.
>>518659198We've lived in a 100% planned economy since the dotcom boom consolidated the majority of total dollars into the coffers of a single umbrella of venture firms. Hence the pajeet horde being used to suppress technical innovation and drown the existing native population.>>518659719updoot>>518660170Not race, *species.*>>518660788>>518662238Our present system is called 'aristocracy.' Just like communism, capitalism has no functional definition - just a clicker-word that idiots are trained with. Moving to what the Fascists wanted, we would remove power from banks and replace congress with trade unions.I'm not so egalitarian. I'd prefer a republic over a democracy in terms of the voting office. But even without addressing the voting and power balance issue, reclaiming 'money' is still the biggest step forward we could make.>>518662493Taxes and interest aren't the only means of controlling money. Seriously read Hitler's economic policy, its genius. Interest controls especially invite Pelosi type clans to rig the system and slowly take over the entire financial system. Then you get corporate lockstep for things like The Jab, Trans shit, etc.>CAPTCHA: DPRK Y
>>518634971>With increasing interest in our kinds of politics from the political left we should have a place to discuss the progressive economics of Fascism which guide the nation beyond obsolete capitalism.There are no fascist economics. Every society has an elite, a managerial class and a working class. Its an universal arrangement in every era and place.
>>518663362That might be the structure of how things get done, but economics is about how resources get distributed. The Fascist Elite would direct the managerial class to provide for the needs of the working class. By contrast under the current system the Capitalist elite instructs the managerial class to maximizes the profits they exploit from the working class to structurally make it so the capitalists get as much profit as possible. In fact if you recall Henry Fords legal case, the managerial class is legally not allowed to do anything but try to maximize profits for the capitalist elite. Henry Ford was sued for trying to provide more resources to the working class.
>>518663362>Your decisions don't matter and everything is the same, just leave everything to me goyGet your species off my planet.
>>518663886>Your decisions don't matterThey do if you become part of the ruling elite, but then its just you giving orders rather than taking them. The structure never changes
>>518634971>evola>mussolini>nick dipaolo I have no fucking idea bros.
pajeets should be posting on bharatchan and living on the subcontinent
>>518664161The laws matter. Currently, the managers of corporations are LEGALLY required to maximize profit for shareholders. The Fascist elite would empower the managers of corporations to run them as they see fit and would increase the say the working class has in corporate governance by democratizing the workplace. For instance instead of the CEO being appointed by and held accountable to shareholders, the CEO could be elected by the workers and then they will be held accountable by the State to make sure the CEOs actions align with state goals.
>>518662043Aight I’ll give it a watch, thanks anon
>>518663886>>518664161For the record like Mussolini I've had Jewish "mistresses" before, people might give me shit for that and psychologize about by lack of race loyalty of something, but I'm not inherently anti-semitic and can bring myself to be. Jews really just seem like people to me and if you exploit vulnerabilities in systems that is the fault of the system being vulnerable. Your women certainly seem to have "Esther Complexes" though if you catch my drift, but the fact that they will outright tell you about Esther to "prove" that Judaism values "female contributions" is kind of funny considering that I can literally read the story of Esther and know what she is going on about, does she think I'm an idiot who hasn't read the story? You don't need to actually do what they say! It is a bit like with bribes, I've never understood why people don't just take bribes and then NOT actually do the thing they are bribed to do. The Emperor Justinian's father secured his position as emperor by taking the money someone bribed him with to instead buy support for himself, so I don't see why people don't just always do this and ignore what all these Esther Complex people are saying.
Convince me why taxes should exist.
>>518668579They don't need to exist. The state could just print as much as it needs to fund itself. The point of taxes is to control inflation by shrinking the money supply by bringing some of the printed cash back.
>>518668682You just said they don't need to exist and then you told me they need to exist to reduce the inflation from central bank fiat money printing.Why should central banking, specifically fiat money exist? Fascist economics is a meme.
>>518667612Anti-semitic means 'anti-palestinian.' Israelis don't have semitic blood.>I've never understood why people don't just take bribes and then NOT actually do the thing they are bribed to do.Because the Tribe is a mafia. Nobody is bribed by an individual lobbiest, they're offered a choice between honey and poison by a system.Nobody is racist for "hating jews." They're just correctly identifying a mafia. You should NOT suffer mafia scum to live. This isn't racial, nobody born into it is hated if they simply adopt a different culture and disavow their parent's criminal past. (They generally don't because they've already chosen the honey and you can never un-choose it.)Anyway, if you join Telegram channels of IDF soldiers sharing videos you'll see why I accuse them of being an alien species wearing skin-suits. No other group belly-laughs with unadulterated mirth while they kill children. Their sniper teams sound like toddlers who just learned their first joke. Humans aren't like that.
>>518665885>the CEO could be elected by the workersI'm sorry but this is just moronic, do you not think of the consequences of these things when you advocate for them?
>>518668860>You just said they don't need to exist and then you told me they need to exist to reduce the inflation from central bank fiat money printing.You could just deal with the inflation rather than trying to reduce it. Taxes don't inherently need to exist, it is just people would probably prefer having taxes instead of having rampant inflation given that inflation is also in a sense a tax.>Why should central banking, specifically fiat money exist?I'll reverse this and say that a state fundamentally doesn't exist unless it has a central bank and it is the central bank that makes the state, everything else is window dressing. As for why central banks exist? Well if there was only one bank in existence that one bank would be the central bank (obviously). The central bank is just the bank that has managed to subjugate the others banks and the collections of the banks the central bank subjugated makes up the financial state. So why can't there just be multiple entities that print currency rather than one central one? Well its because there are multiple entities that print currencies, we have many different currencies in the world where each State prints its own currency. "Why can't I use alternative currency" nothing stops you from privately trading gold, silver, or bitcoin amongst yourself, or even making your own paper currency, it is just nobody is going to use your Ancap bucks unless you force them to in order to make deals with you. That is what the state does, they demand that people use their currency in order to make deals with said State. In State to State relations given that States have not subjugated each other they need to engage in currency exchanges to deal with each other. You Ancap bucks would have to do this just far more often with your micro-states each with their own currency.
>>518669097Why is it moronic?Currently corporations are "owned" by shareholders who appoint Board Members who hire CEOs, but if you eliminated shareholders you'd still have board members appointed by the State and they can hire CEOs. The State however would be democratic so why not let the workers of each corporation vote on the CEO they want in a democratic workplace? If the CEO goes against state goals the State appointed Board Members could fire them of course, but I don't see why the workers could elect the person they want to lead and represent them in meeting those state goals.
>>518669518>given that inflation is also in a sense a tax.CorrectCentral banking and taxation is theft, i don't care what you 'prefer'.>I'll reverse this and say that a state fundamentally doesn't exist unless it has a central bank and it is the central bank that makes the statePartially correct, it's like you have the correct information about everything but you choose to do the worst thing possible.You're like, eating dog shit is bad for you and can kill you, and you give me all the details of why eating dog shit is bad, and then you say that everyone should be forced to eat dog shit, it's bizarre to me.>Well its because there are multiple entities that print currencies, we have many different currencies in the world where each State prints its own currency.What? We can't have multiple currencies because multiple currencies exist? i don't know what the fuck you're saying.>force them to in order to make deals with you. That is what the state doesThat's exactly why fiat currencies are a garbage scam that always loses value.
>>518634971Doublespeak gobbledygook Typical of marijuana and illegal drug users
>>518669762>The State however would be democraticUnder fascism??? What the fuck are you talking about.>so why not let the workers of each corporation vote on the CEO they want in a democratic workplace?You're already perfectly free to do this under capitalism, it's just so inefficient that it doesn't usually happen, if you find a way to make it efficient you're welcome to do so as long as you don't use the barrel of a government gun.By the way, does it not concern you that literally everything you are advocating for is the exact same thing the WEF is advocating for?
>>518669990What I'm saying is that the "world" doesn't have a "central bank" it is has multiply banks each printing their own currency. We call these different banks "countries" and since the world has multiple countries there is no "central" bank of the world, you just have a collection of independent banks that have subjugated a bunch of other banks in particular areas.Technically the US dollar is the World Reserve Currency so there is kind of one central bank in the USA, but this only applies to international transactions.That's exactly why fiat currencies are a garbage scam that always loses value.Nazi Germany created a Labour-Backed currency. The currency had value based on the notion that the Labour-Notes were pegged to being able to purchase an hour of German labour. Thus rather than setting the minimum wage at certain amount of currency, the "minimum wage" is itself the thing that determines the currency's value.So if the currency loses real value that means the minimum wage is going down in real terms and if the currency gains real value that means the minimum wage is going up in real terms. What stabilizes the currency is that if you can purchase an hour of labour with the currency then the value is determined by how willing people are to do that labour. If the minimum wage is low then in order to provide for themselves people will become more willing to work more hours and thus more labour becomes available and so a currency which can purchase their labour becomes more inherently valuable. If the minimum wage is high people won't need to work as much so the currency becomes less valuable since it can purchase less labour. This means that it will tend to stabilize where it goes up in usefulness when it has low value, and goes down in usefulness when it has high value. Now nothing would stop people on the private market from using the labour notes at a rate of 2 per hour or half for an hour but the State would guarantee 1 per hour in its own dealings
>>518670513>The State however would be democratic. Under fascism??? What the fuck are you talking about.The State would be composed of Corporations, and the workers of those Corporations would be allowed to vote for the leaders of their corporations, so the corporations would be democratic. Thus the State is composed of democratic entities pursuing common goals. The State is democratic. >You're already perfectly free to do this under capitalism, it's just so inefficient that it doesn't usually happenNo its because the workers can't buy out a billion dollar corporation. Under Fascism the state would take over corporations and slowly democratize them over time.>as long as you don't use the barrel of a government gun.At first the State would become "partner" to the corporation and that gradually overtime would buy out the other partners. In some cases like with BlackRock, Brookfield, and other "asset managers" the Shareholders are retirees getting the asset manager to invest for them. In this case the State would take over the asset manager and give people the option to convert their shares into State Pensions which would enable the State to quickly acquire much control of the economy.>By the way, does it not concern you that literally everything you are advocating for is the exact same thing the WEF is advocating for?The WEF wants to buy out large corporations and democratize the workplace?
>>518670780>We call these different banks "countries" and since the world has multiple countries there is no "central" bank of the world, you just have a collection of independent banks that have subjugated a bunch of other banks in particular areas.Yes? That doesn't refute having multiple currencies.>Nazi Germany created a Labour-Backed currency.And it was a gigantic fraud, using the same fraudulent "labor theory of value" that Karl the scumbag Marx dreamed up, labor does not inherently create value and it never will, go do some labor punching a tree until your hand is bloody and see if it created any value, it's completely moronic and should have been abandoned long ago.You have a needlessly complex theory in fascist economics and it's based on assumptions that are just immediately recognizable as bullshit and just a cheap excuse to control and rob the population.
>>518671189>No its because the workers can't buy out a billion dollar corporation.I can't buy all of the ferrari's in the world, that doesn't mean i'm not free to do so, all of your definitions about things are mixed up and opaque.>The WEF wants to buy out large corporations and democratize the workplace?That's literally what Blackrock is doing right now with the help of the state. The destruction of shareholder capitalism and replacing it with stakeholder fascism.I started by asking you to justify taxation, which a fascist state obviously would do, and you dodged it, answer the question.
>>518651659>gold/silver was always a meme and was pushed only when the jew banking families had a large percentage of the world's gold. >>518637466>X = Y word>Y word = bad! low IQ post.
>>518659198>Capitalists" as individual people don' really exist anymore. Henry FordHenry Ford didn't call himself a capitalist, because he recognized that capitalism is a materialist jewish system that promotes parasitism, like communism.
>>518671540>X = Y wordDogs = Canines.Fascism = Socialism.Learn logic.
>>518671207A labour backed currency doesn't necessarily require one adhere to the "labour theory of value" (which comes from Adam Smith, not Karl Marx)All it means is that the minimum wage is set at 1 hour-note, so if you want to hire people for 1000 hours you will need 1000 hour-notes. People will only choose to hire people if they think they can figure out a way of using that labourer in a way that produces at least 1 hour-note of labour. You might be able to figure out a way to produce 2 hour-notes of value in 1 hour of labour, in which case, congratulations you just made 1 hour-note in profit!What can you do with that 1 hour-note of profit? Well you can hire someone for 1 hour.All it does is tie the currency to the minimum wage rather than the minimum wage to the currency.
>>518671501>That's literally what Blackrock is doing right now with the help of the state. The destruction of shareholder capitalism and replacing it with stakeholder fascism.See the infographic>>518665885
>>518671189Just because you vote for you boss doesnt mean he wont still be your boss, moreso when you need a permit to have that fabled manager elections you propose. Pure theater
>>518671540Every behavior that makes sense is a "meme," newfag. Learn words before using them.
>>518671827>All it means is that the minimum wage is set at 1 hour-note,that already exists, its called minimum wage
>>518672043>shiny rocks just makes sense to base an economy on nope. worker productivity? there we go.
the majority of pajeets on /pol/ try to hide the fact that they're pajeets. in addition to "leaving that part out" they will proactively, persistently misrepresent their true form. pajeets are all about assuming other people's roles, from today's outsourcing and replacement migration all the way back to thuggee bandits lying to travelers about who they were. pajeets are devoid of their own identity, making them the ideal globalized goyim. they don't want a home where they belong. all that means to them is "compete in squalor." much better to go somewhere nicer, built by other people, and do their jobs for less pay and live slum-barracks life in their suburbs. pajeets don't want to be home. they also don't want to be pajeets. jews know exactly how to play their insecurities and dopey ambitions like the innocent rube fresh off the bus from the cornfield. this is their new golem to replace the ones that don't love them anymore
>>518672275Yes that's the point... Literally the reason to use shiny rocks externally is because it allows for proper worker's wage pricing *for productivity.*Like I said, learn what words mean. Go read Hitler before posting on /pol/
>>518672094Currently the minimum wage is peg to a certain amount of currency, and the value of that currency goes down, meaning the minimum wage can go down.When you currency is pegged at being 1 hour-note, the minimum wage is what determines the value of the currency. Instead of the currency going down in value and brining the minimum down in real value with it, the minimum wage just floats but if it goes down in real terms that means the value of all currency goes down in real terms, and if the minimum wage goes up in real terms that means the value of all currency goes up in real terms.
>>518672001>Just because you vote for you boss doesnt mean he wont still be your bossIf you vote for the captain of your ship he gets to command you while the ship is on a voyage, but after the voyage the crew gets to decide if they want to keep him on as captain.Read Engels On Authorityhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm>Let us take by way of example a cotton spinning mill. The cotton must pass through at least six successive operations before it is reduced to the state of thread, and these operations take place for the most part in different rooms. Furthermore, keeping the machines going requires an engineer to look after the steam engine, mechanics to make the current repairs, and many other labourers whose business it is to transfer the products from one room to another, and so forth. All these workers, men, women and children, are obliged to begin and finish their work at the hours fixed by the authority of the steam, which cares nothing for individual autonomy. The workers must, therefore, first come to an understanding on the hours of work; and these hours, once they are fixed, must be observed by all, without any exception. Thereafter particular questions arise in each room and at every moment concerning the mode of production, distribution of material, etc., which must be settled by decision of a delegate placed at the head of each branch of labour or, if possible, by a majority vote, the will of the single individual will always have to subordinate itself, which means that questions are settled in an authoritarian way. The automatic machinery of the big factory is much more despotic than the small capitalists who employ workers ever have been. At least with regard to the hours of work one may write upon the portals of these factories: Lasciate ogni autonomia, voi che entrate! [Leave, ye that enter in, all autonomy behind!]
>>518672455>still making artificial attempts at gate keeping I've read everything he wrote at least twice. The NSDAP didn't base the Reichmark on fucking gold, they based it on average worker productivity. Do you know what you're even trying to say?
>>518671967You still haven't justified taxation, keep dodging it though. Fascist economics is a scam.
>>518672803>they based it on average worker productivity.LOL! How do you measure "worker productivity" without an economic unit itself? Made up bullshit.
Not sure I'll get a straight answer but what's the agreed upon opinion on Judaism in these circles?
>>518673274They think that jews are based and redpilled when they're in the nazi party helping to kill the jews from the ghettos but they don't like the lower class jews.
pure AI slop in this thread
>>518672700>>518672001To continue the analogy as to how this works with Corporations being organs of the state.>If you vote for the captain of your ship he gets to command you while the ship is on a voyage, but after the voyage the crew gets to decide if they want to keep him on as captain.But who gets to decide where and when the ship sails? That my friend is the State. That State has an entire fleet of ships whose collective voyages serve a larger purpose that each individual ship may only play a small part in.Who directs the goals of the state? You can have workplaces elections to determine your ship captains, and you can also have State elections that can be used to determine State goals. Thus you have incredibly direct democracy in your day to day life where you work, and you have a broadbased long term democracy where people can vote on what they may want State goals to be. Where the authoritarianism comes in is dealing with the medium term intermediate mechanism of connecting those things.
>>518673806Bro stop dodging my question about taxation or shut the fuck up.
>>518672996I might have conjured this up myself but didn't the Germans have some kind of 25% discount on taxes for every child you had? The reason they could do this is if the currency is backed by labour, if you produce more labourers then you have children has the anti-inflationary effect that taxes would have had, so if you raise children you help to give value to the currency and thus you don't need to pay as many taxes.
>>518673136If the workers can make X amount of steel in one hour of work on average then the currency is worth X amount of steel.
>>518674085That doesn't work as a unit of measurement because you'd have to have a unit for steel, a unit for gold, a unit for silver, a unit for wheat, a unit for chocolate, etc etc. Not to mention that has nothing to do with it's economic value. Now answer the question i've asked you 3 times.
>>518673274In the early Fascist party Jews could join. Italy had a low population of Jews and also had a low portion of Jewish involvement, but they were still over-represented relative to their population, but that was only because having any representation was likely going to result in over-representation based on how few Jews Italy had.Mussolini himself had several Jewish mistresses some coming from his Socialist days and others who followed him into the Fascist Party. I myself have had Jewish "mistresses" too. I however recognize the subversive issues involved with Jews and the problem Zionism poses. I however think that you really just need to discipline Jews as if you command them to do things they will respect you for it, and based on experience they've told me that me raising my voice in response to their nonsense gets them wet.When Italy decided to pursue an alliance with Germany, it was conditional on removing Jews from the Fascist Party and from positions of power and passing the "Fascist Manifesto on Race". Prior to this Italy had a kind of "cultural nationalism" where "race was a feeling, 95% at least" implying that made there are racial differences but Fascism viewed race mostly a social construct which might have some biological basis (5%) but the social aspect was more important.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_RaceOne needs to consider the different conditions of Germany and Italy to understand this discrepancy. Italy is more of a racial spectrum with Celt/Germans in the north, Latins in the middle, and Greeks/Arabs in the south/sicily (with Sardinia being a pure race all its own where they have one component that is shared with other europeans but actually lack a lot of the admixture that other europeans have alongside it). Italy also really didn't have a Jewish problem because there weren't that many of them, additionally the european component of Ashkenazi Jews likely derives from italians anyway.
>>518672803That average worker productivity needs a reference, otherwise you're just dividing by zero. By balancing public works and external trade, the Reichmark had actual value based on contracts instead of just melt value, that was ONLY available to trade German to German. You can't export the value on top of melt value. That's the quality of the German economy that makes it kike-proof.
>>518673274Aliens in skin-suits, hiding behind various institutions, using humanity as unwitting slaves.
>>518673274>>518674771Germany had an entirely different situation. Not only did they have more Jews, they also had the problem of Eastern European Jews migrating enmass to Germany during the Weimar Period. You also had them highly involved in the Versailles Treaty and currency speculation and promoting degeneracy. Under these conditions it makes sense that Italian Fascists would view Jews differently than German Fascists would. The Nazis were fundamentally correct that the Jews seemingly had it out for Germany specifically for some reason so I don't blame the Germans for taking out their rage on them, the Jews should have knocked it off. By contrast Jews in the Fascist Party mostly resulted in early Italian foreign policy ending up being in opposition to Germany, as there was a time where the Stresa Front was trying to create a British/French alliance with Italy against Germany.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stresa_FrontThe Austro-Fascists in the Italian-aligned Fatherland Front also let Jews join despite being explicitly catholic because naturally they would be opposed to Anschlusshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_Front_(Austria)When you put things in this context where the Jews seemingly had it out for Germany in particular, you can begin to understand why Jews would not be so much of a problem for other countries. However because the Jews had it out for Germany in particular the Germans demanded Jews be removed from the Fascist Party before they would form the Axis alliance. This is all perfectly understandable from everyone's perspective, and it really was the Jews targetting Germany which cause the problems. If the Jews had not targetted Germany there wouldn't have been a problem and it is likely Italian Fascism could have retained its cultural secular nationalist viewpoint.
>>518673979As long as central bank exists they can print currency causing inflation which is effectively taxation. If you want to go on some kind of Jacksonian Crusade against all central banks be my guest, but as long as central banks exists I will use them to create a labour backed currency.
>>518674347No because if you Mr businessman discover that the steel vs gold vs silver vs wheat is not balanced properly you can just engage in arbitrage and trade gold for silver and put things back in balance. I used steel as an example because steel is something where its available is based on how much your produce with labour, where as gold and silver is more based on rareness. Steel isn't rare, but it does take labour hours to produce it, so the currency based on labour is backed by steel and wheat more so than by gold and silver. Wheat is not just based on labour though, it is also based on land, so the currency is also in effect backed by German land as well as by labour. This is where the "lebensraum" stuff came in as if you had more land and therefore more potential wheat you could increase the value of the currency. This is why some people say that the National Socialist economy was based on war expansion, but this is mostly because they had the opportunity to take more land. If you did this in the United State you would have more land than you would need and the amount of wheat you produce would be based more on water availability than it would be on land availability.
>>518675432I was asking about taxation, such as income taxation, keep dodging the question.>>518675864>No because if you Mr businessman discover that the steel vs gold vs silver vs wheat is not balanced properly you can just engage in arbitrage and trade gold for silver and put things back in balance.Whatever. It still doesn't measure economic value. I've responded to every single one of your points, now answer my question i've asked 5 times or i'm going to stop responding to you.
>>518676864I told you I think they had a policy where your income taxes would be cut by 25% for every child you had up to four children. They can do this because the labour backed currency gets more inherent value by having more labourers so increasing the population has the same counter-inflationary effect that taxes would have under Modern Monterary Theory. MMT was created by a German in 1905 so that was the theory they were operating under.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Friedrich_Knapp
>>518677211>I told you I think they had a policy where your income taxes would be cut by 25% for every child you had up to four children.I'm asking you to justify the act of taxation. You have repeatedly failed to do so and instead just ignore it every single time. I think this concludes the subject.
>>518678072>justify the act of taxationohh taxation is theft I won't deny thatHowever lets say that the State owns a bunch of corporations that make profit. The profit of these State Corporations could fund the state instead of taxes.Now I ask you: is profit not just a non-State form of taxation? Are companies that make profit not "taxing" their workers the same way that State Corporations making profits are essentially taxing their populations?
WHERE IS COMRADE FEDERICO?
>>518678256>ohh taxation is theft I won't deny thatFair enough you finally answered the question, then every single fascist and communist state that ever existed has been a band of thieves.>Now I ask you: is profit not just a non-State form of taxation?No? You have to twist yourself into all kinds of mental gymnastics to believe that.I harvest a coconut on my farm, i sell it to a thirsty customer for a dollar, i have now made a dollar profit, somehow in your worldview that's taxation? No sane man would think that. You might want to rethink your first principles because you're redefining words to the point of them becoming completely meaningless in a meaningless worldview.I think your principle error is assuming the state is necessary or good, if you remove this false assumption you could actually make your 'businesses funding regional communities' thing work, that's quite the opposite of fascism though.
>>518678847>Fair enough you finally answered the question, then every single fascist and communist state that ever existed has been a band of thieves.So has every Liberal State and Feudal State and even states going back into antiquity as they have all had taxes. All states are mere legalized plunder. I will rephrase my point. If the State were to fund itself through the profits from State Monopolies, would you consider that to be a form of taxation and therefore theft?
>>518679094>All states are mere legalized plunder.Finally we agree, which is why fascism and communism are evil and the state must always be limited as much as possible. Read Hoppe.>>518679094>If the State were to fund itself through the profits from State Monopolies, would you consider that to be a form of taxation and therefore theft?You'd have to clarify what that would mean in action because it's too vague.For instance if the state says "You can't sell that wheat because it has to be sold by the state owned wheat corporations" and then when i try to sell it they arrest me or take my wheat, that would be assault and theft.If they fund their state wheat corps through money printing, that would be direct theft because they're stealing the value of my money via the threat of force and handing it to some state CEO.The irony is you could do everything you're saying without any state force.
>>518679548>Finally we agree, which is why fascism and communism are evil and the state must always be limited as much as possible. Read Hoppe.I'm fine with people making Hoppean communities that can secede from states. However there is a large industrialize economy located in major cities. The State exists to manage those parts of the world. The industrialized economy is where these mega corporations that would composed the organs of the state would be located. Fascism exists to handle industrial production, not how to organize idyllic communities. I did specifically say I was seeking to bring in left-wingers. If you personally want to be free from all states in an autonomous community then go right ahead. Why would I allow this though? The reason is that these autonomous communities would send excess children out into the industrial economy when they move to cities. You'll have no taxes because your contribution to the State would be the occasional child who leaves your community and joins the industrial economy. As such taxing you and reducing your potential for raising children would be counter-productive, so pro-Natalist Hoppean communities wouldn't be taxed because the point of these communities would be to produce children to increase the population.>clarify state monopoliesState Monopolies are formed when the State absorbs all the corporations producing a particular good into one State-Owned corporation.For your wheat example, Canada USED to have a wheat board where people had to sell their wheat into one big pile which would then be sold in bulk. Farmers are no longer required to sell to the Canada Wheat Board but what was left of the Canada Wheat Board was sold of to the Saudis for some reason. I'd reverse this in Fascist Canada and bring the Canadian Wheat Board out of the hands of the Saudis and back into the hands of Canadians.IDK if they ever prevented farmers from selling privately though.
>>518680163>However there is a large industrialize economy located in major cities.You can industrialize all you want but you can't ignore ethics unless you want a completely hellish society.>State Monopolies are formed when the State absorbs all the corporations producing a particular good into one State-Owned corporation.Well that would be quite obviously theft then because you're simply expropriating private property at the barrel of a government gun. The state itself is a monopoly, this is basically the same as what communist Russia did with minor ceremonial differences.
>>518680557>Well that would be quite obviously theft then because you're simply expropriating private property at the barrel of a government gunWell we'd offer to partner with them and then buy them out over time. As long as they agree to work towards state goals (like we need X steel partner firm needs to provide it and can profit as long as they deliver)>The state itself is a monopoly, this is basically the same as what communist Russia did with minor ceremonial differences.Well I'll let Gramsci how he perceived they were differentIn Italy capitalism has been able to develop insofar as the state has pressed on the peasant populations, especially in the South. Today you feel the urgency of this problem, so you promise a billion for Sardinia, you promise public works and hundreds of millions for the whole South; but to do serious concrete work you should start by restoring to Sardinia the 100-150 million in taxes that you extort from the Sardinian population every year! You should restore to the South the hundreds of millions in taxes which every year you extort from the Southern population.MUSSOLINI: You don't impose taxes in Russia! ...A VOICE: They steal in Russia, they don't pay taxes!GRAMSCI: That is not the question, honourable colleague, who should at least know the parliamentary reports on these questions which exist in the library. It does not deal with the normal bourgeouis mechanism of taxation: it deals with the fact that every year the state extorts from the Southern regions sums in taxes which it does not restore in any way, neither through services of any kind sums which the state extorts from the Southern peasant populations to give a base to the capitalism of northern Italy. [Interruptions, comments]. On this field of the contradictions of the Italian capitalist system there will necessarily form, notwithstanding the difficulty of building large organizations, the union of workers and peasants against the common enemy.
Fascists, explain in the most logical and cool-headed matter why you disagree with Marx's critique of capitalism. I want to hear your point of view; I'll disregard any non-intelligent answers like "cuz he was a commie hurr"
>>518682534I don't disagree with Marx's critique of capitalism. I literally cited Engels: On Authority to make a point about how the workplace can be democratized even if you still have to follow orders.Mussolini was literally a socialist, he just disagreed with socialist opposition to entering WW1 because he wanted to unify Italian speaking territory by taking it off the Austro-Hungarians and saw WW1 as a means to achieve that. Another thing that bothered him was he was originally opposed to the Italian invasion of Libya until the Libyans started massacring captured Italian troops and shattered visions of them being these peaceful noble savages like how the other socialists kept treating them and started to awaken a national conscious from deep within him.Fascists did not think Marx was wrong, they simply thought that Fascist had dialectically superseded Marxism as the experience of WW1 had demonstrated that national struggle had overridden class struggle, and so socialism could instead be achieved on a national basis rather than through the international proletariat. This isn't a disagreement on Marx's critique of capitalism but instead a disagreement on how to overcome it.
>>518682534Gramsci argued with the Fascists in the Italian parliament and on several occasions he threatened revolution and Mussolini just said that the Fascist party had more members that the Communists so they were certainly welcome to try. Gramsci even provides a critique of trying to incorporate the bourgeoisie in order to control them, arguing that the bourgeoisie will just end up taking over after you destroy the bourgeois organizations as they will form a tendency within Fascism>This law will not manage to slow down the movement which you yourselves are preparing in the country. Since freemasonry will enter the fascist party en masse and will form a tendency within it, it is clear that with this law you hope to impede the development of large worker and peasant organizations. That is the real value, the real meaning of the law>Some fascists still hazily remember the teachings of their old masters, from when they were revolutionary and socialist, and believe that a class cannot permanently remain so and develop itself up to the conquest of power without it having a party and an organization of the best and most conscious part of itself. There is something true in this sinister reactionary perversion of Marxist teachings. It is certainly very difficult for a class to reach the solution of its problems and to reach those ends which are built into its existence and into the general strength of society, without a vanguard constituting itself and carrying this class to the attainment of these ends>But it is not said that this statement is always true, such dogmatism is foreign to reactionary purposes! This is a law which serves for Italy, which must be applied in Italy, where the bourgeouisie has not managed in any way and will never manage to resolve in the first place the question of the Italian peasantry, to resolve the question of Southern Italy. Not for nothing is this law presented at the same time as some projects concerning the reclamation of the South
>>518682092>Well we'd offer to partner with them and then buy them out over time.Taking something via violence or the threat of it is theft, i can't believe i have to explain basic things like this to you people, unbelievable.Spare me the wall of sophistic text.
>>518682534Telling that you only want to talk to fascists and not capitalists, you socialists are all in the same basket. Fuck your dictatorship.
>>518682534Gramsci had a scathing critique ... until one realize literally every argument he was making against Fascism could be applicable to Russia given that at the time (1925) the Soviets were operating under the New Economic Policy which had reintroduced capitalism to Russia, so the only substantive critique he could level was that in Russia a party which called itself Communist was in charge which would someone avoid the issue of the bourgeoisie just joining the party and forming their own tendency within it by the repulsive power of the name "Communist Party" which I have to presume acts like garlic against bourgeois vampires, and the bourgeoisie would never dare join a party which called itself Communist but might join a party that calls itself Fascist.https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1925/05/speech.htm
>>518684468If you want to remain independent then fine we'll leave you alone and just outcompete you with nationalized firms that are created by merging all of your competition into one big block against you.
>>518684819In reality you'll either shut us down with violence, steal from us, or print a shit load of money thus stealing the value of money from both my business and the average person, which is what happened in every fascist or socialist regime in history.Also, why do you want to shut down and destroy small independent businesses? Are you an edgy satanist or something?
>>518685328I don't mean "small independent businesses" those are irrelevant. I mean if you have an actually important major industry and you aren't cooperating then we will just merge all the competition together and use the State's power to last longer selling at a loss to drive the non-compliant firms out of business. Why are we doing this? Because we need major industrial firms under state control in order to have a democratically centrally planned economy.
>>518685583Historically that's never how it's worked in a fascist economy but whatever enjoy your imagined fairytales of perfect fascism.
>>518685893Hey if you get to have "theorectical capitalism" and the communists get to have their "theoretical communism" I get to have my perfect "theoretical fascism"
>>518634971Fascists have never had a single or consistent economic idea. Even their ideas of nationhood and race differ dramatically.Fascists, in general, have all been some kind of socialist with the only exception being Pinochet.Fascism, socialism, communism all rose up in continental Europe and thus shared the common socialist ethos.
>>518686177>Fascists, in general, have all been some kind of socialist with the only exception being Pinochet.Pinochet wasn't a Fascist. Fascism does not mean "right-wing authoritarianism". Franco wasn't even a Fascist, he just had Fascists supporting him and he allowed them to do their little fascist experiments as long as they didn't bother him too much, but eventually he totally betrayed them when he opened up to the West and liberalized the Spanish economy starting in the 60s and turned the country into a resort for rich Brits.
>>518634971Natsoc economics is basically just do whatever works but the merchants are not allowed to control the government
>>518686340It is debated as to whether or not Pinochet was a fascists, however, the current widely accepted definition of fascism make Pinochet a fascist:"Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology defined by a dictatorial leader, the forced suppression of opposition, and the subordination of individual interests to the state or a specific race. It originated in Italy in the early 20th century under Benito Mussolini before spreading to other countries."Pinochet executed socialists wherever he could find them, ended democracy, placed himself as an authoritarian dictator, ran terror campaigns of murder and rape against socialist, etc.The only major difference between Pinochet and the other historical fascists is that Pinochet liberated the markets (eradicating socialism), and eventually restored democracy and stepped down willingly.Pinochet is the closest form to a benevolent fascist.> betrayed them when he opened up to the West and liberalized the Spanish economy starting in the 60s and turned the country into a resort for rich Brits.You're thinking of Spain. Pinochet was in Chile. Spanish fascism was strictly socialist but, due to extreme poverty, they liberalized the economy under the new technocratic and western scholars which created the Spanish miracle of wealth and prosperity.
>>518685893You can avoid coercive measures that might destroy your business if you just cooperate with the state plan. Why wouldn't you anyway? It is guaranteed business!
