Does capitalism require infinite growth or is this a strawman?
>>519433729Idk you tell me
>>519433729Fiat currency and credit do. The only reason you use a fiat currency rather than some kind of material is because fiat currency can expand infinitely while material is limited.You could have a capitalistic system with only limited growth, but people selling credit don't want that because credit REQUIRES that money devalue over time. If money now isn't worth more than money later, there are only a few reasons to use credit better served other ways.
Infinite growth is good and people who want degrowth are midwits who don't actually understand what growth actually is. Growth is merely an abstract measure of economic productivity and nothing more, it isn't a physical phenomenon. Nothing wasteful comes from economic growth, only increasing productivity. Globalists WANT "degrowth" because it requires financial hypercentralisation and top down control of the economy and society. They sell you your slavery as progress
>>519433729Get an ad and shill your shirts somewhere else like re**it
>>519434105>it isn't a physical phenomenonYes it is nigger. Computers require raw materials. If raw materials ever become inaccessible all growth stops
>>519433729crapitalists absolutely btfo with this one
>>519433729The problem is thata) we don't know exactly how many resources are on Earth. We know they are finite but we get more efficient at extracting and using them, for example just a decade ago people were talking about "peak lithium" and now pretty much every country in the planet has found lithium deposits. It was always there, just no one had bothered to look for lithium under their soil until now.b) we can decouple economic growth from many resources. Solar is essentially limitless and if done properly we can substitute oil for solar energy (long term)c) who said we are limited just to Earth? lolYes resources aren't infinite, but we don't know where the "wall" is.
Just ask these retards what lifestyle and consumption sacrifices they are personally willing to make so that growth can end.>oh no you don't understand, *I* won't have to sacrifice anything, only people with more stuff than me will :)
>>519434224We haven't even utilised 1% of Australia's natural resources and economic productivity (which growth is merely an ABSTRACT MEASURE of) literally helps us create sustainable economies that don't have need for pollution e.g. a biodegradable plastics industry that makes products with no impact on our hormonal system is a form of economic growth. Degrowth literally means a small cabal of plutocrats controlling all resources and the end of upward mobility and enslavement of the population. Really just admit you got conned by globalist sithlord mind games
>>519433729imagine if our dicks had infinite growth it would be like having a tail and it would become fashionable to wrap them around your waist etc
>>519434390> It's not physical> It is but we haven't used it all yetThose goalposts are hauling ass
>>519433729>hurr durr finite physical resources must mean finite value so capitalism is cancerI want to strangle these people so muchcancer create value by making more efficient ways to do Xcancer doesn't find new ways to use X resource that was previously worthless, thus making it shoot up in value overnight>no, you cannot count that
>>519433729>Does capitalism require infinite growth or is this a strawman?No. Why would it. Growth is simply a metric for stock holders to look at.
>>519433729Cancer is a function of the medical paradigm
>>519434315>he doesn't know that space is fake and gayngmi
>>519433842I think a lot of it comes from tech startups being all over the news for the past 30 years and people believing that every single company on earth operates like that, and also not understanding that the "infinite growth" stage is the good part.
>>519433729Its a straw man, prices eventually stop fluxtuating and you reach equilibrium. Terrible banking institutions have been devalue currency for over century so equilibrium is not possible though
>>519434426Keep going, I wanna see how far this goes
>>519433729Companies have to expand or die, because that's the reality of business. That isn't to say that they don't die, they always do in the end.
>>519434105productivity is still hard limited by physical energy available in useful forms, which again is very much finite
>>519433729Greta Thunberg stated this as fact. Yes, it's a strawman, as if you needed someone else to tell you
>>519434992Strawman how? It is a fact. Capitalism requires infinite growth, the existence of interest in itself requires continuous expansion. The times where growth stops or even slows down are called crisis and create alot of hardships
>>519433895That's it. Anyone who says this infinite growth bullshit is a fucking subhuman retard.
>>519434346How about total jeet deathTotal nigger deathAnd total kike death
>>519435074"capitalism" doesn't state that growth or shrinkage is bad, only that the means of production can be privately owned. To attribute any more or less to it is just dishonest
>>519433729No Ponzzi schemes are not how the economy literally has to function, jew just did that
>>519435099Fiat is faking infinite growth by making number go up
>>519434105>>519434426Richard Werner, author of Princes of the Yen, debunks the misplaced fears over economic growth:https://youtu.be/kgyTt-MNThA
>>519435187>"capitalism" doesn't stateThere is no book of capitalism, no bible of capitalism. There is reality we can observe. Periods of no/small growth in capitalist economies are called crisis, and cause alot of hardship on everyone. This is a fact. Think of the concept of interest. You borrow X amount of money, but you will have to payback X = X + X * 0.05 (5% interest). On a macro level, without growth it will be impossible to maintain these payments if the economic base does not expand.
>>519433729Capitalism doesn't require anything because Capitalism doesn't exist. It's a jew fiction.
>>519433729Capitalism requires real and sustainable growth. Corporatism requires infinite and unrealistic growth.
>>519435707>There is no book of capitalism, no bible of capitalism.Exactly. it's a definition, nothing more. Deviation too far from the definition requires new classification. Like right now, for example, the west is no longer adhering to capitalism. It's morphed into corporatism
>>519435707oh, and "interest" has nothing to do with capitalism, that's usury - a kike concept of banking / economics
The fools from the first world have forgotten that their virtual economic indicators are extracted from the physical resources of the third world.Which was Russia until recently. And all plans and graphs have gone to hell because there is no access to cheap Russian energy resources.
>>519434224>Yes it is nigger. Computers require raw materials. If raw materials ever become inaccessible all growth stopsComputers have increased in power by 10,000,000 times for a same quantity of raw materials since 1970.That is growth.
>>519434224Growth is just a term. Sometimes growth means new inventions. Sometimes gorwth means new sectors form said inventions. Growth can be a compressive and condensing action as well. Growth can measure alot of different things.
>>519433729>Does capitalism require infinite growth or is this a strawman?No, socialism does. The only way to fund all those benefits and programs is to borrow money against future generations, requiring an always increasing population to pay for these expenses. It's basically ponzi scheme. A purely capotalist society doesn't require social benefits or large government. It would actually oppose government, because government will get in the way of the corperations and charge taxes.
>>519435847>from the physical resources of the third worldThe US, Canada and Australia are in the top 10 countries by natural resources.Russian energy is nice but it's not like it can't be replaced in the long run (it the short run, yes it's very much a problem for Europe).
>>519435707Capitalism is the idea of exchanging value.I think a lot of the modern neoliberal cronyism is mistaken for capitalism.
>>519433729What dumb people don't realize is that economic growth means value added not a production of physical good. You can sell a gymnastics class and it grows economy while using barely any resources.
>>519434315Trees turn CO2 and light into more resources, fool.
>>519433729>but my le hecking wholesome finite resources!!!>not my finite planetrinoooo
>>519433729Capitalism doesn't require exponential growth. However it does consolidate wealth into a few hands and is mostly a fantasy like communism. The fairy tail is that exponential growth is needed to keep the winners winning and the open market closed to the cattle and goyim.
>>519435842>>519435952It always ends with "not real capitalism".
>>519436105Because it's not, and even in the shittiest of conditions, Capitalism thrives (see China). If anything, we should go turbo capitalist, get the government out of regulation, and let the people compete for glory.
>>519434717>productivity is still hard limited by physical energy available in useful forms, which again is very much finiteThis is not a very interesting fact though, because we continuously improve how efficiently we extract energy from our limited resources.And the physical limit is very far (with nuclear fusion, in theory, a single spoon of sea water could power an entire city for a day).
>>519436170>The West is not real capitalism!>China islmao, so you will just pick and choose the best examples?
>>519435707Under what system would productivity stagnating or decreasing not cause quality of life to stagnate or decrease with it?
>>519436242What is wrong with stagnation? It is how your ancestors lived.
>>519433729No, but economic growth means increased productivity which generally speaking results in a reduction in poverty (see: China). So if economic growth actually stopped then the very first people to scream about it would be the very same left wing retards who made OP's pic.
>>519436233Yes, the West thrives, under shitty conditions, despite over-regulated housing market, gouged mining industry, and a number of other things that has happened, we create insurmountable value. However, you do even just 1% of socialism, and negative consequences begin echoing in a variety of different ways across education, culture, and crime. There is no competition, Capitalism is the moral and correct stance, any thing short of it truly is assistance to evil.
>>519436242This is what leftists unironically believe.
>>519433729Oligarchy needs it.That way you can lul the npcs by increasing their salaries whenever they get uppity.npcs loves to see the good numbers go up.
>>519436271That is patently false.As soon as they had the ability, our ancestors started making tools, combining natural resources, etc.
>>519433729Capitalism is just the private ownership of the means of production. It uses the profit incentive to allocate resources as opposed to a centralized authority. That's it. It doesn't require infinite growth. If a particular industry stops being profitable then resources stop getting allocated to that industry.
>>519436315>the West thrivesWestern populations are basically replaced at this point, and you call that thriving? Who exactly is thriving?
>>519434105this>>519433729also retards convineantly forget that we literally have infinite planets nebulas and dead suns to mine and colonize got the next six gorylion yearsthe zero growth and degrowth meme is only so rich people can keep us in enclosed space cause they are afraid of losing power
>>519436372Thriving might be an exaggeration, but there's a reason why everyone still wants to move to Western countries.
>>519436105Takes a lot longer for capitalism to reach "not real capitalism" than it does for socialism to reach communism, then "not real communism"
>>519436365They improved and developed over generations, not quarterly. Your ancestors, for the most part, lived and died basically the same. What is so wrong with this? Why do we need to make the number go up 10% YOY?
>>519436417There is also the fact that, even when diluted in judaism, capitalism is potent enough that it still kind of continues to chug along.
>>519436404>but there's a reason why everyone still wants to move to Western countries.Everyone wanted to move to Brasil and Venezuela and USA 200-500 years ago, despite them being objectively shittier places to live. This proves nothing. I don't measure the success of my society by how many human waste wants to come here
>>519436372That would be your government and activist organizations at work. People aren't having kids primarily because of how much pessimism there is as a result of global warming propaganda, anti-natalism from activism from these, and overall political hostility. Top that off with paying older generations to continue to live and suck up your resources, living in dangerous criminal infested cities, and you've set up the perfect pessimistic society. Think of how many middle class families skipped out on having the kids because 40% of their income is taxed to feed niggers who are just happy to have food? Probably untold amounts, these are consequences of the unseen, but one principle in line still skates. To add insult to injury, toss in our piss poor educational system, and you've now created the inability for those that would otherwise thrive in capitalistic conditions to close themselves off.
>>519436490Yes, it resists manipulation... To a point. Right now though, full blown corporatism rules many western countries. Egregious lobbying, circumvention of monopoly laws and deviation from industrialism has corrupted capitalism to a point that it's become detrimental to the populace... Certain (((people))) need to be publicly drawn and quartered in order to return to the golden age
>>519436487We don't really need to do anything, but if we make major discoveries like the steam engine, nuclear energy or the transistor, it's not that crazy to want to push those inventions to the limit.I would agree with you that excessive consumerism is a bad thing, but it's a cultural issue more than a problem with the economic system itself.Western countries have largely moved away from the Christian faith, without going back properly to paganism, so we're in some sort of faithless void at the moment.
>>519436271Do you aspire to work the same minimum wage McJob you got at 15 for the rest of your life? Do you aspire to live in the shitty sharehouse room you first rented for the rest of your life? Apply this logic to civilisation at large.
>>519435947Truebut I'll note Explored reserves At the same time, the same organizations note that they do not have information on Russian resources, but theoretically it is able to provide the first world for the next century. This is also why there has been so much noise around Russia since the days of Condoleezza Rice famous quote.
>>519433729>limited resources>earthExpand beyond earth, retards. Universe is theoretically infinite. So capitalism will work.
>>519433729Nah but jewish money tricks aka FIAT need it or it implodes
>>519433729WTF I love commies now.
>>519436559capitalism is good, but all the bad effects are not real capitalism>>519436636>I would agree with you that excessive consumerism is a bad thing, but it's a cultural issue more than a problem with the economic system itself.No, it is a direct effect of capitalism and its necessity to constantly grow>Western countries have largely moved away from the Christian faithAll moral codes that impede capital expansion will be molded or destroyed by capitalism, as capital expansion is the only goal. Have you noticed how the idea that "X country was built by immigrants" became accepted in almost all capitalist countries? even thou it is clearly not true for most? Because capital will push ideas that benefit them, and labor deregulation is one.
>>519437304>No rebuttalSad, but many such csaes, better than the UK trannies I argued with a few days ago.
>>519434437This monkey lived to see someone defend literal cancer
>>519433729cancer is a malfunction of normal behaviour and the inability for the body to kill cancerous cells. capitalism is an intentional act. capitalism is not cancer. the hugh guy took the the original tranny tweet and made it worse.cancer does not "enjoy limitless growth" it fails to stop its inherent malfunction and automatically reproduces without being stopped. it has no will to grow, it is automatic. cancer is not and cannot be a conscious decision.
I wish you guys founded another liberia, sent all the commies there, and gave them everything they wanted so they could starve and die.
>>519433729it doesnt. infinite growth is just a byproduct of safety nets protecting the system. if big players were allowed to fail the system would work.
>>519433729>there are no constraints on capitalism it grows forever and ever my sociology teacher with a degree in pan african flute crafting said soMidwit take. In reality government, society, no profits, private associations and individuals all exert contrary pressure on any and all forms of economic activity. Nothing is growing unchecked much less infinitely you morons are making arguments against continued advances in the standard of living.
>>519436487If growth is accepted as good, as you just did, what difference does the time frame matter?
>>519433729There is limitless energy. So there are limitless resources
>>519433729''Capitalism'' itself is a strawman. It's a term coined and defined by communists. It doesn't describe reality, it's a skewed strawman of what an imaginary system does, most of it is projection and communism laying out its own problems and calling it capitalism.Capitalism doesn't exist. There is no such ideology. There is no book of capitalism. No system is called that. There are no capitalist philosophers and famous capitalists.It's a completely made up nonsense term.The infinite growth thing isn't capitalism, it's investment stock pyramid schemes and a 401K scam. You can point exactly to what is causing this and you can address it directly, but these mentally ill freaks just call that capitalism and that's where the conversation stops. The capitalism buzzword is the ultimate conversation stopper. You just blame everything on a word you made up and that's the end of it all. It completely obfuscates what the problem is and keeps people from digging deeper and finding out any of the specifics and get to the problem.
>>519433729@Gork is this truE ?
>>519433729Clear strawman>>519433895>>519434105This sums it up
infinite growth == inflationyou hold your money == you dieyou invest your money == free moneyidk what is so complicated with this. its a system that highly rewards you for investing your money, ofc this works very well. the issue however is that most people do not have money to invest and are just constantly raped by inflation. it keeps the poor poor and the rich rich for no benefit to the system.
>>519433729Growth no consumption yes, growth is a byproduct of consumption
>>519433729>Does capitalism require infinite growth or is this a strawman?It's a strawman, because the real reason is that the western financial system is a debt based, which is a pyramid scheme, otherwise known as a ponzi system, dressed up as Keynesian Economics. Socialism doesn't fix this because it uses the debt based system as well. In fact, it has too, otherwise the socialist state will have to come knocking on people's doors to steal their stuff. Also, look at the communist manifesto's essential ten planks. Number 5 says a central banks. The retards who want socialism and communism have no fucking idea what they're actually advocating for.
