Why can't anyone do what TMSC does but in America? Why does it have to be in Taiwan?
You need super smart people who are willing to work wagecuck hours and conditions for wagecuck pay.You're not gonna find that anywhere else. Well maybe China which is why TSMC itself has branches there.
There is a TSMC factory in Arizona already.
>>519778599$amkr
They can. It’s a question of financial and legal incentives. It’s cheaper to produce the exact same product in Taiwan and if you somehow managed to make it the same and produce in America you would get sued if you failed to promote black women into management. Civil rights law sincerely has destroyed this country, perhaps permanently.
>>519778599Americans are too stupid for photo lithography. Only the superior Chinese intellect can grasp the principles involved
them niggers are slavessuper smart work around the clock and basically straight edge. hard to find anyone like that elsewhere. not even mentioning their experience at this point
>>519778599because corporations don't want to pay Whites what they're worth when yellows and browns will accept slave-tier conditions being babysat and occasionally consumed by machines.
>>519778599TSMC is too far ahead in the sophistication of their process. Intel tried to replicate what they do and failed so badly they almost went bankrupt before Trump forced NVIDIA and the taxpayer to bail them out.
>>519778599Intel could, but a lot of design houses don't trust Intel with their designs>>519778772>wagecuck paynah, the wagecucks are downstream of the silicon foundries... the people dicing wafers and putting packages on themthe foundry guys make 6 figures easy (there are not many of them bc most of the work is done by robotics)
fun fact: TSMC is powered by the biggest coal plant in the world, so using a phone makes you a nazi
>>519779119Which is not to say that it's IMPOSSIBLE to replicate, but it would take many years and billions of dollars of investment to do so
>>519779322TSMC factory in Arizona just produced their first 5000 series Nvidia silicon (Blackwell) last week, so it's happening anyway, just run by Taiwanese people flown in to operate on American soilIronically this fab was built partly with funds provided by Biden under the CHIPS act but now Trump is trying to take credit for it (because of course)
>>519779555The real thing I'm curious to see is how long it takes the PRC to replicate ASML's machines
>>519778599ASML says hi.
>>519778599Americans don't work 16 hour shifts. They go home after 6 and claim they did 8
>>519779649They still haven't cracked it. They're stuck at 7nm and using a predecessor technique to ASML's lithography with very low yields. Apparently Taiwan has all the ASML machines rigged with explosives set to remotely detonate if China ever invades, the tech is considered that sensitive.
>>519779119Intel sat idle while they held a competitive advantage over design for a decade and did nothing to improve. Amd caught up and surpassed them. They had a decade of straight dominance to expand they didn't now they are shit.
>>519779972Then they hired a religious nutcase to be their CEO
>>519779814SMIC has a 5nm class process still using DUV, just takes a ton of SAQP exposures so yields are low.For both their 7 and 5 nodes they're real loosey goosey with back end metal pitches compared to the rest of the industry though.
>>519778599Wasn't starting up an American chip company one of the things either Trump or Biden was talking about? Was the plan abandoned?
>>519780156This post is so beyond my comprehension I had to hit wikipedia kek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_patterning#Self-aligned_quadruple_patterning_(SAQP)
>>519778599semi plants pollute a lot. lots of the workers at IBM got cancer. at the fishkill plant in new york, something like 50% of the workers died young.semi manufacturing is a lot safer now, but at the time it was better from an environmental perspective to just get this shit out of our country and have the chinks die (semi wafer pun) making it.it was stupid to let all of our tech go, however. the plan was that intel and texas instruments were supposed to not go full retard domestically, but they both did lol.t. worked in semi for a decade, primarily for KLA Tencor
>>519780342There are a ton of intel foundries, and Global Foundries is still alive and well in the US. Both of which make chips directly for DoD use. There was legislation called the CHIPS Act which was just retarded gay shit and a meaningless subsidy for intel. Nothing would have established a new business.>>519780412yeahMultiple exposers per lith mask to make an etch of appropriate resolution. More exposures means more potential for failure so yields are bad vs a higher power light source ala EUV.
>>519778831But it has problems. One part is the labor is inexperienced. The other part is Taiwanese control freaks won't let them learn. Also trump keeps fucking everything up so they tried to extort them so they aren't eager to help us take away the only thing protecting them.
>>5197789581) They are not Chinese. 2) The West makes the equipment that does the lithography. 3) You're a nigger.
>>519780544>The other part is Taiwanese control freaks won't let them learn.Do you blame them? The only leverage they have to protect themselves from Chinese invasion is their semiconductor knowledge
>>519779804No. 'Americans' will work that. It is the beaners that will work 4 and claim 10. It is the chick adjacent slant eyes that will work 90 and still be retarded.
>>5197805901) Wrong. They are the true and correct Chinese.
>>519780412I have a masters in chemistry and a phd in materials science, and the complexity of semi is still ridiculous. imho it really is the pinnacle of human achievement. the amount of minds and the complexity of the equipment that go into making a processor that you can purchase for just a few hundred bucks is difficult to comprehend.
>>519780516>There was legislation called the CHIPS ActThis is what I was thinking about. It seems I had the wrong idea
>>519778772that's it.. it's about the kind of labor. Asian labor isn't just prized for it's price.. it's an inherent genetic predisposition towards a skillset that makes them favorable for that labor. It's in the brain. There is cheaper labor elsewhere.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6625506/
>>519780700Semiconductors have reached such a level of sophistication people don't even realize they're carrying around a technological miracle in their pockets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFWrzuAOyVc
>>519780609I don't blame them at all. Before Trump got back in office though they were supposed to be training American workers, but their impatience with the process meant they brought in their own guys who did the work, but were not doing the training. Like if you have a bad manager at a job, and when you need help instead of teaching you properly they just have someone else do it. As I understand it, because all I do is read news articles. Since Trump directly threatened to let China take Taiwan u less they gave us all their factories I doubt they're going to do anything to build out here.
>>519780544The biggest problem on F21 campus is the US requirement to hire niggers, jeets, and spics. Any company of sufficient size must meet diversity quotas.TSMC has flown in shitloads of staff to fill roles and train others in AZ.
>>519780645this is why you niggers need to be exterminated>make niggers pick cotton>fail at civilizing niggers with whippings>know it wouldn't work on yourselves either>need to worship goblins that you all believe bless you with fortune or lebensraum
>>519778599who????
>>519779649Before the AI boom, SMIC was making good headway. the CPC throws tons of money into semi, and the Chinese are extremely intelligent and capable, and have top academic institutions, as well (even though on /pol/ everyone will disagree). but since AI, the amount of western money (including from government) flowing into semi has pushed TSMC and tool manufacturers like ASML for litho into innovating extremely quickly, too.China can make the technology, it's just that they are a few years behind and it's difficult to close the gap when the west+taiwan is also going at a full sprint. before 2020, I would have said 5-10 years to catch up. if the AI bubble holds, maybe another 5-10 from now. if the AI bubble pops, 5 or less years I think.
>>519778599A lot of weird shit happens in politically grey areas because it reduces tension and the potential for conflict. It's why north korea still exists and hasn't been flattened by china or the US.TSMC being in "chinese" taiwan gives both nations lip service to claim "control" and dissuades political/military action in taiwan as the fallout would be far more than its worth.
>>519780837They're not going to train Americans while Trump refuses to commit to their defense and openly threatens to sell them out. US is lucky Taiwan even built a fab on home soil with such a wishy washy security non-commitment and unreliable leader
>>519778599well guarded trade secret, every one knows how to make semi conductors but not a their level, and you can look at a completed one all day under a microscope but you wont figure it out. satellite factories in other countries are just appeasement, they never bring the real complicated stuff there
>>519780590They are capitalistic Chinese. If China wasn't communist they would be ruling the world by now.
>>519780700Not only do you need expert electrical engineers (hard as fuck) but you also need expert material scientists and chemical engineerings since semiconductors don't grow on trees.So imagine having such a high barrier to entry. And still willing to go into a relatively painful and mediocre paying profession compared to effort put in. Like a lot of people will go fuck it, I wanna use my knowledge to become a software engineer in silicon valley or high finance quant.
>>519780863>biggest problem on F21 campus is the US requirement to hire niggers, jeets, and spicsthis.Affirmative Action means our plant has to be DIVERSE, and so colorful and queer.
>>519781057They actually did bring their 4nm process to the US and are planning on making current gen Nvidia cards. It's not their most cutting edge process though, which is 2nm and stays in Taiwan as their insurance policy against being backstabbed by Trump
semiconductor manufacturing is suffering from serious diminishing returns as of lately. moore's law is dead and they spend exponentially more on new die shrinks for minimal gains. at some point 7 nm or 4 nm will just be good enough
Taiwan is ethnically Chinese, just like America is ethnically Jewish.
>>519778599tiny little asian hands
>>519780816how the fuck do they make that?
>>519778599it's really expensive to build these factories, they only pay for themselves in a decade
>>519781467They use a process called photolithography. ASML makes these impossibly complex $150m machines that make it possible
>>519778599There is a reason why jewsa is the only developed country in the world with over 20% illiteracy rate
>>519781181Fab 21 in AZ is actually going to produce N3 now by 2028, but its likely that this will be further accelerated. They're adding 5 new lines and expanding the plant already. They'll likely have N1.4 running in Taiwan and have N2 running stateside concurrently.
>>519781318Cost is increasing out of proportion to Moore's Law, but all the parametrics are still improving by leaps and bounds.
>>519781673Damn, I didn't realize TSMC were so gung ho on their US operations. Maybe they think it's advantageous to have a large US footprint in case Taiwan gets invaded sooner rather than later and their Taiwan operations might get disrupted or destroyed
>>519781318They are at the point that quantum mechanics start to play a role and electrons physically can't stay where they should be. And thus they really can't go smaller and must either stack or go bigger until some completely different tech is created to make things smaller
>>519781884I hope they've got something planned for sub 1nm, it would be a shame for all semiconductor progress to stop after decades of predictable yearly improvements
>>519781467it's magic. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2510.15135as I went through academia and into the workforce in the field, I really started to understand Socrates's "For I was conscious that I knew practically nothing".and, much like with advanced physics, even if you can quantify things on paper mathematically, and even apply the physics and test it experimentally, the "feeling" of what is being the numbers or seeing how the micro and macro effects synergize is still baffling at times when you take a step back. you can focus on a particular component, understand it, then understand a few other components... but the whole taken together still feels strange. this is why it takes so many thousands of minds + machines to create advanced tech.I've only taken a few courses in nuclear engineering (for fun), but I find it amusing that commercial reactors are so much "lower tech" than what we carry in our pockets in the form of chips. this like stellarators and tokamaks though are mind bending, but that's just for research purposes for now.
>>519778599The only reason they're even relevant is because of silicon valley, where semiconductors actually gets turn into a useful product that people want. There's no incentive for the US to join that industry since its entirely dependent on the markets of another industry.
>>519778599Because the byproducts of manufacturing are mega fucking toxic dumbass. Chinks are cheaper and don't ask questions like "hey Mr noseberg, won't all these chemicals give me mad fucking cancer?" So make your choice. Do you want to die or would you rather an Asian died?
>>519781976Sounds like youre just a sheltered idiot
>>519781467As a side note, Whites and Asians build this like picrel and other pics in this thread.and yet we are supposed to live alongside niggers and other subhumans and pretend they are in any way, shape, or fashion like us. without the millstones of nons (exclusing asians) around our necks, the world would be full of boundless energy and technology and we would be a multi-planetary species already.
>>519781987Silicon Valley hasn't produced anything useful since at least pre-pandemic now
>>519781884>>519781939Front end of line feature size is still scaling, and back end of line metal/poly pitches of tons of room for improvement yet, so much so that its crazy.Different transistor topologies, different materials, improved power and signal routing, all of this is already laid out well into the 2030s on the Silicon Roadmap.
>>519782146>>519780700learn how to use 4chan, maybe
>>519778599I've been to TMSC and the people are super nice. I'm not sure why. I'm sure you could find some other place to do TMSC, but I haven't looked into that.
>>519782192this is very cool
>>519781976That wasn't even english.My guess is that they use a super-duper-precise laser that fuses particles to whatever they're pointing at, like a 3d printer. How accurate is that?
>>519778772TSMC Arizona starts uneducated wagies in the factory at 25 an hour and new graduate engineers at 90-110k. Experienced engineers can easily get 200+ but sometimes trying to communicate with the chinese is like mental torture
>>519782276Its still just photo resist, light exposure, acid etching, and atomic layer deposition.
>>519778599Access to raw materials.
>>519782427Considering how the world is moving towards a multi-polar order of China and the US, learning Chinese as a second language will probably become increasingly more common
>>519781939I mean, they could go for full quantum computing since electrons would be literally quantum tunnelling all over the chip if they go that low and thus making the chip unusableBut no, TMSC has been working on stacking chips and calling them 3D chips and there is also the idea of making them bigger, "macrochips" because making them bigger would give them way more power and efficiency at the cost of materials and yields.It's wise to remember that chips are small not because they can be small but because that means you can get more from a wafer and thus you get a higher yield after you discarded all the failures. The bigger chip route would require better techniques to get higher yields to be economically feasible though
>>519782525Quantum annealing machines do not have electrons willynilly flying all over. Stop posting.3D and 2.5D stacking are just advanced packaging, ala CoWoS, vertically oriented transistors for true 3D logic is something else entirely.
>>519782720They don't have electrons flying everywhere now but they will if they go smaller and that's what I meant.But yea, 3D chips are just stacking for now. Still good enough for what the world needs right now and thus gets them higher yields.
>>519778599Chinese engineers are willing to work 16 hours a day for 30k a year. The problem with americans has always been "not living like bug people", and jews have decided that they don't like that.
>>519781067I'm here with stupid.Opening your country up to free markets is widening your country's legs to rape. China has benefited immensely by state-run capitalism - their version of communism. The US is clearly falling behind and so they're adopting the same strategies by investing in rare earth companies and semiconductors via the CHIPS act. You can either direct capital to where it ought to be, or you can wait for the market to realise.Capitalism=pandering to base wants=onlyfans, refined carbs, shortform content, no manufacturing bc difficult.
>>519782151based nigger denouncer
one of the problems is that the FAB isn't the end all be all.you need an entire ecosystem of inputs, supports and finally packaging.because TSMC is the big player a lot of that eco system is build around and with them.you can't just tell them to set up shop in Arizona and expect the "magic" to happen.you need to bring over parts of or grow your own ecosystem. if the guys making your crystal isn't on top of their game, no wafersif the other chemical ect. inputs are just a bit off, no wafers if you can't get the support with the lithography or other machines, no waferscan't keep the clean room clean or make it clean again, no wafers
>>519782908>but they will if they go smaller and that's what I meant.No you're still wrong about that. Different transistor topologies exist explicitly to address the issues that arise from the short channel effect.We moved from planar gates, to FinFETs, to GAAs, and soon we will employ ForkSheet FETs and ComplementaryFETs to keep current in the channel. A transistor would not function if the channel was too leaky.These are already solved engineering problems.
>>519779814Ccp surpassed them, I suspect so did Russia sho is the most secretive about their production and they have invested heavily for a long long time! The dutch scum is the old cabal ops that branch out, they are TREASONOUS, US was going to be Balkanized, labed and ans nuked.It takes time to destroy a superpower from within, so stripping it from actual resources and tech was a process while feeding it sufficiently to be of use for large projects that lead towards it's death ultimately as well.they never thought ccp would get strong enough or out of their control... now they fear pivoting because they fucked up, everywhere and no doubt will themselves be destroyed.And, further more, there are two rumours circulating for a long time now:1. They get the tech from something that uses a route the area... there is a passge and some say a base below the waters. 2. Some rare sand material is required and sourced there in the region.
>>519783025capitalism also build 4chan congrats on admitting you are, by your own words, driven by your base wants
Immagine believing People Here cant do what ccp taiwanese people can!Or that a government cabal cant organize a factory here even if it means changing work shifts to have more on rotation paid high wages to preserve Security and Strength.Immagine thinking labour is the issue! Ever.
>>519781007God damn you are dumb. Who do you think their biggest customer is? lmaoTrump has ALL the leverage.
>>519783095Knowing burgers they will open a door that shouldn't be opened and then they contaminate the whole thing
>>519783236imagine taking your meds! Ever.
>>519782276that paper is still etching, just at finer and finer tunables. the issue with some "3d printing" at a molecular level is that because of how extremely difficult it is to get light to focus at that scale. this is essentially what happens with DUV where you can go under the classical diffraction limit by pulsing light very quickly through the mask onto substrates that can properly absorb the energy without causing incorrect fusing of nearby atoms. basically trying to thread the needle and get photons absorbed in just the right amount in the proper areas. but when the energy enters the material, it causes chemical changes in nearby atoms as well. and add onto all that quantum effects...and besides, you've got billions of features on a single chip, so atomic stacking would be ridiculously slow and cost tons of energy and time. in labs though for fun (we've had this tech for a long time, like a few decades-ish), you can make small things out of individual atoms, but just basically like fusing them onto a substrate to take a demo photo in a SEM for shits and giggles or just proof of concept. and you can do it not even done with lasers, but with a charged tip of an STM (picrel from 1989). there are also chemical methods that "grow" atomic structures on substrates, but difficult to do at scale and with the precision that we can do with litho masks.as >>519782192 has shown, the main issues that we're facing aren't as much continual die shrink, but are more about the 3d aspect of chips, i.e. verticality and how you properly layer these structures (and design them such that a bad part of a layer won't fuck your yield completely, so you have to test and be able to shut down defective parts of the die automatically) and efficiently cool and build 3d structures that have sufficient cooling.
>>519778599Boomers outsourced chipmaking to Taiwan in the 1990s to save on labor costs (screw over American employment)
>>519778599you arent going to find capable people willing to work 90 hours a week for mcdonalds pay.
Rare gases required for production btw come from Dombas, Russia! eu nato globalist cabal eu elitehs who destroyed Europe and North America... wanted Ukraine to build thd drone eu Military to rule what's left after labs and nukes.US if it wants to live can never let that happen itself, let alone Russia, so they didn't!Now, Odessa, the port is next.The end.Fuck this scum world.
>>519783178Obviously, but I don't want my country being governed by capitalism and base wants.
>>519783303Immagine seething about the no doubt to you inconvenient Truth, and coping either for lack of knowledge or knowing too much and enough that you got beat! lol
>>519783378Intel and AMD's foundries were flourishing in the 1990s. bucko. Even after that the Common Platform Alliance was giving it a good shot. TSMC only took the lead in the 2010s and its thanks entirely to the smartphone market.
>>519783086
>>519778599>Why does it have to be in Taiwan?I think china gives taiwan sweet deals to make Taiwan dependent on them.
>>519783322do you think that the uni of Göteborgs development of gears at the nm level could in the future start to be incorporated in the lithography process or in chip design? in theory you could get them to affect manipulate elements at that scale during or after the lithography process
Immagine not being able to depopulate and use drones to rule because you just destroyed every cells that held you up like a a parasite and now must die off like a traitor! Remember how traitors pushed that ccp covid doctor here in Canada on us thinking they can inherit the World? I do!
>>519783511the Truth is that the rambling spastic isn't telling you the Truth if he knew the Truth he'd have better things to do with his knowledge instead of being a rambling spastic online
>>519778599Because Americans are lazy, fat and uneducated.
>>519783178Effectively the exact opposite, moot just set up a server in his basement with no profit motive because he wanted to make a space for his autismo weeb bros to chill
>>519783303kek
>>519783615I haven't read much about it aside from a headline and a short abstract a few months(?) ago, and it's outside of my area of expertise. small scale machinery is interesting, though off-the-cuff I think that nanomachines are most applicable to drugs and drug delivery/biomedical therapeutics. but using nanomachines to "assist" with chemical etch and/or litho structures or even clean processes would be interesting. or ways in which they could assist with "repairing" layer defects during the fab process. I assume that type of tech would be wayyyy off, though (and who knows about cost-effectiveness). again, this is just based on my zero knowledge of that subfield.
>>519778599They can they are just 5 years behind on capital investments to make it happen.
>>519778599Too many libtards
>>519780544>https://techstory.in/tsmcs-arizona-chip-plant-faces-backlash-over-workforce-and-delays/1. the jobs aren't that many, right now it's like 2200 but even at full capacity of 6000, it's not that many jobs2. this specific plant is focused on cutting edge 5nm and below technology, it requires experienced workers, US would've been better off building physically larger, less complex chips that go into cars, utilities, appliances etc..., this is like jumping into the deep end without knowing how to swim, SMIC in China was getting made fun of for building older gen chips but over time their workforce got more experience and now they are doing more modern chips3. americans don't have the same work culture habits that the native taiwans have, even with high hourly wages and paid training they quit after realizing that it's non-stop high dexterity manual labor with little breaks etc..., they'd rather sit on their ass an collect SNAP than get paid 30-40/hr and slave away
>>519779804I go home after 3 and bill you for 40.Being a contractor is great.I just get to scam people all day, and they keep paying me.>Structurally important?>Sure let me just use these double rebaked 7018's, that I found in a dumpster:DI'm the best welder.
Everyone here is an idiot. The real reason is we'd have to dump money into R&D which would not pay off for at least a year or two, and no American company can afford to do that because line must go up every quarter, not after a few years.
>>519778599TSMC was started by Morris Chang, who worked in Texas instruments. He was recruited by the taiwanese government and the put the money to build it. Theres nothing special about them except that they put the money, the tech is from the US and from Philips. Philips receiveda 27% stake for giving them technology.
Ayeliums don't real.
>>519778599we can trump will do it but the dems want to stop him because they are chinese owned
>>519779555Sounds like they aren’t hitting their quotas of women and blacks
>>519784174the special sauce they have is operations and integrating the fabs, it's one thing to have a plan on paper but another to go implement it, you need both obviously, basically taiwan, japan, and south korea all took a practical approach to focus on doing the work and not the design, the US and netherlands largely control the design of chips and fabs (advanced lithography) but samsung and TSMC know how to run a production line and train the workers etc... it takes decades to get that, Japan was doing well in electronics until the 90s and they lost their edge
>>519778599>Why can't anyone do what TMSC does but in America? Why does it have to be in Taiwan?I actually worked in TSMC for a wafer fab vendor, no one understands what it takes to make these chips we all depend on, the fab had a huge cafeteria and the poor slave Morlocks had to sleep on their arms at the cafe tables before going back into the hellhole 'cleanrooms' for another shift of tending the FOUPs and wafer fab machinesyou would need an entire city of high IQ slaves to who have zero free time and work pretty much 24/7 to run a fab, your ordinary obese blue collar 9 to 5er wont cut it, obesity is a productivity killer for any factory, and it is impossible to round up sufficient high IQ non-obese dedicated workers in America
>>519781656IF ONLY WE COULD IMPORT MORE ELITE HUMAN CAPITAL
>>519778599Anyone can make chips.Some are just better at it than others.TSMC happens to be better than anyone else but it could just as well have been a Korean or Japanese company.The only real things holding America back are high wages and short workweeks - if you'd be willing to work 12 hours a day for 40K per year you could be #1 too.
>>519778599It's basically the peak of modern engineering science, up there with the stealth coating on fighter planes. There's very little labour in the world skilled enough to do it, or to teach others to do it and it takes a lot of time to learn.The machinery necessary is also prohibitively expensive. All this together means that establishing a new foundry is a huge financial risk.The bigger issue is that the existing foundry capacity basically covers the world's needs, which means more foundries will increase supply and lower prices, lowering profit for whatever entity needs to shoulder the cost of getting that foundry running. It doesn't make financial sense, unless taxpayers are shouldering the cost via subsidies.
>>519784549>Anyone can make chips.fuck noabsolutely falseyou have no fucking idea
>>519784549Rapidus in Japan is trying to make a bleeding edge 2nm class process entirely domestically to compete with the global market.The EU tried to do the same thing but lol lmao EU
>>519781467Referring to the video?With AI.
>>519784549You could get people to work 12 hours a day for $40k/yr if you could still have a family and a house not located near niggers. Too bad we deconstructed the 500 different layers of sociocultural and economic architecture necessary for that over the past 50 years
>>519778599How else to trigger a war with China? Can't do that with chip fabs in Arizona.
>>519784649Well maybe not everybody, sorry Zimbabwe, but there are hundreds of chip makers spread out over most parts of the world.My tiny company has 3.....well, before one of them got killed by our government last week.America probably has dozens.>>519784663Yes, I've heard about Rapidus, interesting concept.Maybe they will become the next TSMC who knows.
>>519784439side note is that this is where we're fucked with nuclear reactors now. after seabrook nuclear plant, it was like 40 years before we brought a single new reactor commercial power generating reactor online (new vogtle reactors), and we failed building the new reactors at VC Summer.we can design all this shit on paper still, but construction, supply chain, vertical integration, intrinsic "know-how" of experienced workers... rather difficult after spending decades fallow. I honestly think that part of the reason why the US government doesn't just nationalize the nuclear energy sector is because we still would have immense difficulty bringing new plants online without massive cost overruns and blueprint and manufacturing fuckups (VC Summer was a nightmare before it was scrapped). we'd have to bring over technicians from Areva (france) to do it for us. either that or partner with china's CNNC/CGNP and bring over chinese technicians lol.the funny thing is that even most of the new reactors being brought online in china are modified versions of the AP Westinghouse design (AP1000 and bit of Areva EPR), with efficiency improvements (although they have several types they are building). and some of the designs being implemented like their CFR-600 fast breeder reactors are banned in the US because jimmy carter was a fucking piece of shit moron.
>>519784663>Rapidus in JapanThey will probably fail, because Japan is a horrible country in which to do business these days. their educational system is also garbage (outside of small programs at just a few select schools like kyoto institute of tech and tokyo u) , and their economic and social situation makes it extremely difficult to attract talent from outside Japan. the reason Japan still has high tech companies like Renesas, Keyence, Tokyo Electron, Toshiba/Kioxia, and a few others, is largely because of inertia.Japan still has a bunch of chemical companies (shin-etsu, Daikin, Fujifilm) and some pharmaceuticals like Takeda, but I don't see them ever becoming a "new leader" in any blue ocean parts of semi.Japan can't even innovate in the software startup space (they've tried over and over again in kyushu and osaka(?)). and that's low cost/barrier of entry. the large keiretsu can still trudge along and turn out some interesting research, but the economic (shit salaries, extremely high taxes) and social situation (not training sufficient numbers of engineers, low international collaboration, other engineers not interested in working in japan or unable to move up the corporate ladder there) are basically a death sentence for any "disruptive" tech being developed there.
>>519785085reactor operations is another beast, i'm a former nuke operator trained on pressurized water reactors, training and certifying reliable operators is very expensive and time consuming, worst of all, despite decent wages it's still manual labor, it requires decent IQ (like this anon said >>519784439 ) and an obedient personality that will always follow regulations, most people aren't cut out for this because you're basically a robot but you can't be low IQ because you have to understand the system and be able to step in 0.001% of the time when bad shit can happensame principle applies to fab workers, albeit the safety contingencies are nowhere near as catastrophic as nuclear opsalso just like nuclear plants, fabs are expensive to build, the actual litho machines are not actually bought by TSMC, they're leased because they're expensive af, same thing for certain nuclear propulsion components in the US navy and civilian industryall the retards in this thread have no idea how difficult it is to man and operate a modern fab, it will take decades of investments and also CULTURAL SHIFT in the workforce to do it, today's americans are not built for high IQ manual labor slavery
>>519784102>30-40/hrThey need to at least double the pay. Comparable working hours for educated workers are seen in things like finance and software development here. Similar pay is seen for normal engineers working 9-5 M-F in an office. They do not understand the market.
>>519785755meant this anon >>519784440
>>519785085>nuclear powerThis is a regulatory problem. Nuclear power is not that complicated. Any of the thousands of physics grads we produce annually can be trained to do it. After all, it's just pumps and valves.
>>519785755checked, and based. I essentially flipped a coin as to whether or not I was going into semi or nuke. both immensely fascinating and have real world results that affect people (making chips and energy generation). some of my friends are nukes and it's fascinating stuff.and yup you are of course right on the money. there is so much complexity that goes into building fabs and reactors that it's something you can't "spin up" easily overnight without concerted effort and guaranteed long-term funding and financing *cough government funding and long term planning cough*.I think it's a decent first step in our governmental system to at least have an investment in Intel, but I think we need to pick nationalized winners or at least provide guaranteed long term societal and economic alignment for them, while not allowing them to "privatize the gains and socialize the losses". the CHIPS act to me fails on the latter part, where the companies are just taking taxpayer money and passing it to executives and large shareholders like blackrock, rather than passing enough of the money into the actual technology or construction or paying/incentivizing workers better.and if TSMC tech were so easy as people think it is, then SMIC and the other chinese companies that are trying to replicate what they do would have caught up or passed them by now. the CPC has been spending a shitton of money on semi (and nuclear) for years, with guaranteed long term plans and strategic objectives. it's a marathon. china's approach is interesting when it comes to how they handle smaller semiconductor companies... the government disburses money like grants, then picks winners for more funding and allocation of resources. tightly coupled between the government, university labs, and "private" labs and startups. kind of like how the DoD and NSF interfaces with R1 research facilities and university-based startups here, but on a larger scale.
>>519785747Japan is trying at least.Better than crying about how the world is "unfair" for being more innovative than you.
>>519778952i was filing a lawsuit one time and the black female employee next to the clerk processing my paperwork was retiring, talking aloud about how she sure hoped a black woman takes her place. all i could think was how i would prefer the most qualified individual to occupy the position, but niggers.you're absolutely right, sadly. lots goes into making the problem, part of it is raising everyone to think they deserve the world in exchange for nothing, and all are supposed to live like KANGZ and QUAENZ.
>>519786221>This is a regulatory problemIt's not, though, which is my point. regulatory licensing is *part* of the issue, hence me mentioning the banning of breeders by carter, and how licensing for new plants and even retrofits under the NRC is difficult, but the reason I mentioned VC Summer was to show how manufacturing itself is extremely difficult in the US now. ffs they had parts worth tens of millions of dollars that were repeatedly built to the wrong specifications, left outside to rust, then destroyed, then new parts were built, blueprints modified, then the new parts didnt work, were also built to the wrong spec, had to be destroyed..."it's regulatory" is a cop-out. We literally can't build them at scale, because we do not have a sufficiently skilled workforce.
>>519786818What's unfair? did I miss something? I just pointed out that Japan will most likely fail in this venture, because Japan's situation is fucked.
>>519782146>>519782276I think its interestingThe goal of mass production has always been to make things at a significantly higher precision and speed than what is possible by hand. But this is a little different, you can make pretty chunky semiconductors at home with the advantages 21st century tech allows you, but the bleeding edge and its entire trail edge is not even possible by hand: Its a manufacture only situation Its not having a team making 1 output per year vs a factory making a few 100s in a day.The team making the output just isn't possible
>>519786727an almost socialized nationalism if you will
>>519786918>it's regulatory" is a cop-out.You are completely wrong. We can’t train a sufficient workforce because any company that doesn’t jam niggers and women into important positions gets sued out of existence by our regulatory framework.
>>519786727>if TSMC tech were so easy as people think it is, then SMIC and the other chinese companies that are trying to replicate what they do would have caught up or passed them by now.SMIC doesn't have the machinery because politics.ASML's last 3 generations (immersion DUV, EUV, and high-NA EUV) are banned from export to China.Given the old machines SMIC has to work with (DUV without immersion) it's amazing what they manage with them.
>>519786727>and if TSMC tech were so easy as people think it is, then SMIC and the other chinese companies that are trying to replicate what they do would have caught up or passed them by now.exactly, SMIC and others have been offering 3x the salary of TSMC employees and a nice relocation package, many have taken the offer but despite having former TSMC on staff, SMIC is still behind, but it's better to be 10 years behind than 20 yearsIntel needs to split its chip design and fab business, which many have suggested but they refuse to do, the CHIPS act isn't enough money to revive Intel, they need corporate investment, which NVIDIA finally agreed to but the we don't know the specifics, if intel splits and then gets 100B investment from AMD and NVIDIA and others, revitalizing its Ohio and other domestic fabs is a possibility
>>519783378>>519783378do you think boomers were like "yes lets outsource all our jobs" or do you think they were just like "hey let's institute labor safety and environmental health standard regulations" and then the jobs went where it was cheaper. Yea i hate boomers too for a lot of stupid shit they did but i don't think they actively wanted to outsource important industries. They just cared about people's health.
>>519780038that dude was the only thing that kept intel together, moron
>>519787404No, I think you are completely wrong and “cost of labor” such that the owners could wring out more profits was the only thing on their minds
>>519787404>and then the jobs went where it was cheaperThis is something which could have been prevented and was about profit motive, not "competitiveness"
>>519787404>They just cared about people’s healthCan’t tell if underage, painfully naive or actually, diagnosably retarded. Either way, please never post again. Thanks
>>519778599The investment required is too great to chance it on the schizophrenic whims of American governance. i wish there was a nicer answer, but in the end... that's what it is.
>>519787255And? Now you're talking about something else... so, I accept your concession. please reference >>519782151 >>519783579 >>519784485
>>519786987I'm talking about Trump whining how "the world treats us very bad" instead of betting back on the horse and start innovating again.High tech is like a race and if you fall behind you need to improve yourself not cry in the corner that "it's all so unfair we used to be #1 now we're no longer WHAAAAAAA!"
>>519786848The main problem is civil rights law. Corporations would naturally seek cheap and productive employees, which blacks and browns are usually not, but they can’t because if they don’t hire enough women and blacks they’ll get sued into oblivion.
>>519787618>The investment required is too greatAnd meanwhile they spend how much on AI training?
>>519787404ez to blame boomers but greed transcends political affiliationmy dad is a perfect example (now in his early 70s but still working) runs an IT staffing firm in a major city, 30-40% of his clients are gov or gov adjacent (think smaller booz allens or companies that provided technical support for corporate network and phones etc...), he owns a $5M house, has at least $50M in net worth, other business stake and investments, loves Trump, loves low taxes, etc... but guess what? he OUTSOURCED most labor to India and Phillipines, in fact he became rich and not just a decent businessman by pivoting overseas in the mid 2010si think it's hilarious how he talks all this shit about immigrants, poor people muh gibs etc... but himself has fucked over americans, and he still works and doesn't hire staff because he is greedy and wants to keep costs down, hate this man
>>519787621Are you mentally ill? What did I “concede?” That was my only response to you…You present your argument as though “regulation” doesn’t include race and sex quotas. You are wrong. End of point
>>519787621>person doesn’t even sort of concede>i AcC3pT uR c0nCeS510nWhat causes this?
>>519787624To be fair to Trump, we are still a republic, so "whining" and trying to convince people to play fairly or whatever via rhetoric is how our country is constitutionally structured.I'm a communist, and I would prefer much prefer a Xi (or Trump with Xi's powers) along with a politboro and standing committee which could offer 5, 10, and 20 year long term objectives that have teeth to them, and governmental support in key industries through direct nationalization and aligning the industries with societal and economic strategic objectives that benefit The People and nation as a whole, rather than gifts to wall street via tax breaks/incentives.and within the context of other countries "treating us badly", Trump is correct. The EU, China, Japan.. have all treated the US unfairly when it comes to trade. The WTO, UN, and NATO suck as well. But yes at the end of the day the proverbial buck stops at your own house. Trump uses his rhetoric, but he has done more to increase governmental tendrils dipping into large corporations than previous presidents (this is a good development). currently, our corporations control the government, but Trump is at least trying to get the government to control semi... partly. haha. "investing" in Intel outside of purely unidirectional tax and investment incentives is a step... a tiny step.
>>519787898Sorry you can't understand how retarded you are, anon. back to mcwagies
>>519781007This is the most china-hawk filled administration ever.
>>519788124Now THIS is a concession
>>519788124Nah I explained why you were wrong succinctly and cogently. You immediately cop to some imagined insult because your ego is pathetically fragile. Sad. You can go ahead and kill yourself now
>>519778599It could have been, but kikes and boomers chose the east because it was cheap 30 years ago.
>>519788013>The EU, China, Japan.. have all treated the US unfairly when it comes to trade.Booohooo what a victim you are.It's everybody vs. you isn't it?They even stopped using the US dollar as the world trading currency....oh, wait, no they haven't, that's still a massive advantage America has over everybody else.
>>519783236>>519784174>a government cabalThe catch always remains that its not a active cabalIts somebody 3 tables away shouting across the room, and then they forget about it after shouting. Similarly the secret sauce is quite obvious:Be allowed to operate at a loss(short term), and be able to make very carta blanc demands about surrounding infrastructure. ^TMSC's advantage has remained that they don't have to deal with quarter fluctuations ruining long term planning, they got labor pools for related jobs in the area to have a realistic recruitment operation. Meanwhile TMSC's US subsidiary is what.... one job market fluctuation away from the engineers fleeing to better paid jobs? Or a small administration change away from not receiving funding?
>>519788013>"treating us badly", Trump is correctyou subhuman mutts are the second most entitled people on this planet, right after your Chosen mastersdegenerated to the point that you do not understand the instruments of power built after WW2, do not understand in what a privileged position you are from elites down to peasants like you, smashing it all to save peanutsI love to see it, of course, and any decent /pol/ user does too, considering what US hegemony "achieved" for people of European descent
>>519787812Boomers isn’t a political affiliation…>>519788331>job market fluctuationIf by “job market fluctuation” you mean “be forced to pay 50% again of your employee cost for do nothing negroes and women,” sure
>>519788331>Be allowed to operate at a loss(short term), and be able to make very carta blanc demands about surrounding infrastructure.agree on that one, CHIPS act was dead on arrival because democrats put in provisions for subcontractors to provide child care services etc... this is just an example, there are hundreds of environmental provisions, if you want a business to succeed at any cost, you basically have to give them effective sovereignty in the region
>>519787368>SMIC and others have been offering 3x the salary of TSMC employees and a nice relocation packageI turned down a pay bump and some damn nice other benefits type offer from them when I was at KLA (I'm neither "critical" personnel nor in litho, so it wasn't a yuge bump, but I've heard of those). I wanted to take it but had family type shit that held me back. I regret it haha. also, would have been a bit less exciting working on older tech.>Intel needs to split its chip design and fab business, which many have suggested but they refuse to do, the CHIPS act isn't enough money to revive Intel, they need corporate investment, which NVIDIA finally agreed to but the we don't know the specifics, if intel splits and then gets 100B investment from AMD and NVIDIA and others, revitalizing its Ohio and other domestic fabs is a possibilityYea, I would prefer nationalization, or at least partial nationalization, but as that's rather against how we do things here, proposals like yours are the way forward. Intel has the "bad" kind of vertical integration where they are just encumbered, bloated, and inefficient. moving money around with fancy accounting and not enough is actually going to the boots on the ground in engineering, R&D, or even things like construction and building design and management. I really think if Intel started paying more attention to the rank and file, they would begin to fix some of their internal problems. but they won't, so it should get broken up... and if they won't do it, the government should do it like what we did to MaBell.NVIDIA's investment is nice, but god I just don't trust them at all. and these investment numbers are so much of the type of big numbers on paper that end up being circulatory in nature... "investing" only to then "buy back" the products and circle the wagons. "revenue" generation that doesn't translate to any expansion of value. but oh well, not really any other way forward.
>>519788324I don't know about you, but I'm praying every evening for mutts to cope and seethe into a military confrontation with Chinawithout such an opening, I think Europe is doomed
>>519788324There it is, buck-broken America Derangement Syndrome ahahaha
>>519778599Because the t stands for Taiwan... You are looking for USMC who actually do make the smartest robots on the planet
>>519788457By "job market fluctuations" i mean that once you have 2-5 years of experience under your belt, you can look at going to Silicon Valley or any related Military Industrial Complex area trying to aim for 3-5x wage increases. While also getting a different job.Most Euro economies already suffer this with long term flight to finance and lawyer work.In US you can do the same ,but far more extreme in the money bags around certain job markets.
>>519787057Yes, "socialism with chinese characteristics" is rather close to natsoc, but more hands-on with how corporations are controlled and the interplay between more private entities versus SOEs. >>519788013most of Schacht's problems with the later structuring of Nazi Germany have been hammered out over the years through theory, trial, and error, by the former USSR and PRC.
>>519786918The workforce and institutional knowledge atrophy is a regulator problem. Regulation is why it happened in the first place and a lack of commitment from the government to nuclear power is why it hasn't recovered.
>>519788743>USMC who actually do make the smartest robots on the planetHuh, all these years I thought they made the dumbest humans on the planet.
>>519785966Yeah that's a fucking garbage wage for that work desu.
>>519779555The CHIPS act was started under Trump.
>>519780816It's ridiculous you can't turn an iphone into a proper desktop. Absolute waste of resources. It has more juice than my Xeon LGA2011 chip I have in an old rig.
>>519785085You still build lots of small reactors for naval use. Maybe that's one reason for a focus on SMR's.
because usd is overvalued, so america could just import that shit from tsmc for cheap lul basically free money ... so long as america is the global hegemon of course
>>519790221Dumbest humans... Still currently the smartest robots.
>>519778831Produces 0.5% output compared to what comes out of the two TSMC factories in Taiwan. I hope the burgers can do it but it will take a while. This stuff isn't easy and you need a whole ecosystem and army of workers talented enough to do it. Shawamada refusing to follow clean room rules because she's having a fight with her baby daddy will destroy billions of dollars of chips in an hour. Can you guarantee that won't happen?
>>519780544>Taiwanese control freaks won't let them learnAmericans begging chinks to let them copy their homeworkThe irony. Why don't you let Taiwan "learn" how to build nuclear powered subs?
>>519781656A lot of the machine looks unnecessary. Like one big giant scam. The process is actually pretty simple.
>>519778952https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IQHjhBq7cwE
>>519788170Taiwan is literally the frontline of a hot war with China. They don't want it. Trump still floats the idea of letting them get invaded because he thinks extorting everyone is le art of the deal. The only conclusion you can draw in Taiwan is that letting your chip industry out of country is possibly a death sentence.
>>519783297Leverage for what? The US military is dependent on the chips. If anyone has "the leverage" its Taiwan. If you miga retards could think in anything besides zero sum you would see the mutually beneficial relationship you are trying to crash.
>>519778599>you know that thing you used to do that was offshored? >you can’t do that anymore>heh
>>519783129Russia has only 90nm or 45nm stuff, but its good enough for chips for missiles and military hardware.
there is no TSMC there is no factory in Taiwanit's just where they're hiding "it"
>>519792614I'd be fine with that. You don't have submarines?
>>519792319The machines that make the chips aren't even made in Taiwan.
>>519778599>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Exactly!Nobody understand why it works.
>>519792648Everyone is saying we don't have the skills and know how seems to forget that the US invented EUV lithography at Sandia Labs and that there are hundreds of universities with condensed matter physics research groups capable of getting undergrads up to speed on most of the background knowledge they would need. This is not including electrical engineering or chemistry departments doing similar work.
>>519778599>Why can't anyone do what TMSC does but in America?probably tech patents
In a decade we will.
>>519793874>most of the background knowledgeNot good enough, unironically. This is practical fabrication.
>>519778599I think part of it is geological. They have to mount the machines on shock absorbers so the tiny vibrations don't fuck up building the microcunt sized transistors. You have to find a fairly still area. That said I think they are building one out west somewhere.
Like nurses, they wear scrubs and pretend they're "geniuses" when in reality they're just scrubed up stooges working in a factory that just happens to produce shit that needs heavy duty air filtering. In other words a lucky factory assembly worker who doesn't have to breathe in harsh fumes, nor really "assemble" anything themselves. This is what they don't want others finding out, that you really don't need a 4 year degree to do the easy ass shit they do, they're fucking jobs are literally computer controlled and could be automated tomorrow, but the only thing preventing this is a gay little patent on a fucking laser lens.
>>519793874That's a lotta cope.If you could, you already would have.The incentives are there.
They didn't have this problem in Taiwan.
>>519778772it's not so bad when you're in the society you grew up in surrounded by people you grew up with in a monoculture essentially, that's why they can hack it with that life and not complain too much
>>519778599>Why can't anyone do what TMSC does but in America?TMSC is trying to do it in America.>Why does it have to be in Taiwan?The thing semiconductor manufacturers do is trying to replicate their already successful fabs exactly as those are. Now you run into situation where you have different quality water, that messes up silicon wafers because different mineral composition of water leaves different mineral residuals. Also 'mutt construction workforce isn't even close to as careful as Taiwanese in building facilities like clean rooms. Basically the plant they are building with Biden subsidies in Arizona seems to be massively behind schedule and insanely over budget because 'mutts refuse to build facilities up to the spec and ignore quality requirements.
>>519794158Which they'll have to learn from the company, since no one else uses its processes. The point is there's enough talent. If there's not enough workers, the reason is due to a failure to implement talent.
>>519794564>just pay $1,000,000 to get a PhD and become a scientist!>oh btw there are very few academic positions available and most of them are poorly paid
>>519780452>semi plants pollute a lot. lots of the workers at IBM got cancer. at the fishkill plant in new york, something like 50% of the workers died young.I ran recently in some article about how they are still doing clean up on some MOS technologies/commodore location that closed in like early 90's. Really vile stuff seeping into ground water and so on. And that is far from only long abandoned semi conductor plant that is EPA super fund site.
>>519778772>Well maybe China which is why TSMC itself has branches there.TSMC has facilities in the U.S. as well.
>>519794564>If you could, you already would have.We did we invented transistors, integrated circuits, and EUV lithography, nor did we ever stop making semiconductors.>The incentives are there.Are the pay, conditions, and lifestyle competitive for other industries with comparable demands?
>>519779649LOL. China only recently (some time in the last few years) managed to figure out how to make the little steel balls that go into ball-point pens.
>>519778599Your politinigger class had to justify squatting on a random ass island without mentioning hegemonic control of the global to you because 90% of your population doesn't even know what the fuck hegemony means. Same for Taiwanese government.
>>519788013>and within the context of other countries "treating us badly", Trump is correct. The EU, China, Japan.. have all treated the US unfairly when it comes to trade. The WTO, UN, and NATO suck as well.all those organizations where made by the US and the rules international relations go by where written by the US. all of them to the benefit for the US when they where made.the problem the US has is that it failed to future proof those mechanism or to keep complete control over them. this simply allowed other countries to find ways to turn those US made mechanism to their advantage.why? well the same with it's failed industrial policy it allowed corperate and other special interests to dictate policy to their advantage. this has prevented the US to formulate and then execute a coherent strategy.you know you are fucked when the EU is able to be more nimble and implement policy more coherently.
Why would you trust TSMC?
>>519778831Yep... and 2 Samsung factories in Texas, where this White boy gatekeeps recent college grad interviews & hiring. Seethe, OP...
>>519795284>Are the pay, conditions, and lifestyle competitiveno. for US students, quants and swe are seen as pinnacle. in taiwan, everyone is pushing to get into tsmc bc it's the highest paying. taiwan doesnt have big 5 like the usa.
>>519793874>EveryoneNo, nobody.What is being said, is the lack of coherence and strategic milestones lead to a environment where there is a lack of consistency. This lack of consistency has lead to a general decline of US manufactureIf getting the capability involves building a machine, to build another machine, to build another machine to get the job done, you are 10 years away from anything, and at that point you LACK the capability. With a lack of parallell jobs, there is going to be a lack of talent. And so long fucking off to the MIC to earn more money is a option, there is a lack of recruitment.
>>519778599There is a specific MACHINEThat makes all those chips. Its basically unique otherworldly technology.They'd have to build THE MACHINEin order to have the factoryJust imagine having sex with this chick and what she'd do to you. That's why you cant have oen.
>>519794151>In a decade we will.2 more decades Mutt.
>>519779804is that wrong?
Why can't Tyrone, Jose and trust fund money laundering criminals like Trump's kids make semiconductor factories?Because Taiwanese have superior genes.
>>519780700I honestly think its demonic or alien (is there a difference?). Some sort of "gift" to humanity for some reason. Maybe so we don't get too stagnant.
>>519778599>>519778772no. this is what happens when you let oligarchs relocate your manufacturing to other countries and it sits there for a long time, especially during tech advancement. asia would be the poor shithole it always was without these people, and no asians are no particularly smart people. there something called the right side of the bell curve to pick people from and they were especially desperate since they're actually lower down the curve, PLUS the bell curve isnt as smooth as it's forced to look. it's lumpy in reality and europeans clearly have the magical optimization of lumpiness in the bell curve department.
>>519778599cost of living in US is too high to pay the skilled/educated people to work there. US has always needed slaves in one form or another
>>519781057It's like they have a t-800 teminator cpu from the 80s in some vault.
>>519779649Considering they are actively trying to reverse engineer older obsolete machines (and failing miserably) its probably going to be at least 2 more weekshttps://asiatimes.com/2025/10/china-reportedly-caught-reverse-engineering-asmls-duv-lithography/In all fairness to the chinks, this stuff is *the* most advanced tech tree that humanity has developed, its practically sorcery.
>>519796902>and failing miserablyThey completed th DUV machines last year, they no longer buy from the dutch.You're cooked Mutt.
>>519793128I wouldn't doubt it.
>>519778599Jews siphon off all wages for housing. It will never be possible to produce anything in countries which allow this.
>>519796902>China reverse engineering Chinese techOk. Laws against copy RIGHT are the worst thing to happen to human progress.
>>519778599Because division of labour to global scale.Some countries creatw particular ways of means in contrast and perfected fitted with others. You can't reproduce anything anywhere. If you could. Soviet Union would had won. It takes hiatory, generations and systems and logiatics chains that all take longa and can't replace by will.
>>519780544>The other part is Taiwanese control freaks won't let them learn.What English is this? Did you mean "won't teach them"?
>>519785966You need commie brained chinks. No sane person is going to work like chinks irrespective of pay.
>>519796353If they had decent genes china would be in its 6 gorillionth year of rule by now
>>519778599The main problem is environment and health standards. It uses some really toxic chemicals, meaning safety, insurance, benefits and so on cost far more in the West.
>>519778599officially its labor costs but tsmc has had at least one fab here for decades so that's probably not true
>>519778599because americans dont know how to do itand dont have the tools to do itand dont have any way to train people to build the machines or learn how to do itits like if america didnt know how to build cars but russia didwell russia is peopleand americans are people(loosely) so clearly its possiblebut you would have the build the industry from scratch even if you "bought" 1000 of the top car making people from russiait would still take 10s of billions and a few decades to catch up to where russia was when you started the processbut now russia is 20 years ahead of you so you have to play catch up spending more and more and more and moreand now after another 20 years you have better cars and better car makers that russiabut you also spent more than if you had just imported cars from russia for the next 200 years straight, and the people still need to buy the cars at the end of the day so probably even more than that.
>>519778958https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_W._Lathrop#:~:text=Jay%20W.,Lathrop%20tried%20to%20miniaturise%20them.An American literally invented photolithography you stupid fucking pan faced gook.
>>519795488>all of them to the benefit for the US when they where made.the problem is that now those governments and institutions are controlled by people who don't care to see their counties succeed in high-tech, they're trying to turn Israel into a "tech mecca" and chip exporter
