>>520265962
You are just dumb.

>>520266014
Nice argument retard lol

>>520266057
It's not an argument. Just a fact. I don't argue.

>>520265962
You are human capital cattle who was bred to serve the interests of industrial civilization now sit down, shut the fuck up, do your work go to church and stop questioning things.

>>520266100
The only fact is that death is final. Everything else is conjecture.

>Is the universe rationally ordered?
Yes
>Is rational order possible through irrational means?
No
>Is some rational mind responsible for the universe?
Yes, and it is God

There really is no way to argue against this without making a boatload of assumptions.

>>520266246
God is the assumption, tho.

>>520266184
Thar's not a fact. That's your opinion, and you are dumb.

>>520266246
>Is the universe rationally ordered?
what rational order, give some examples.

>>520265962
something exists if you can measure its force in the world. things dont have to be true to exist.

>>520266468
literally any predictable event follows the rules of logic, which are inherently rational

>>520266331
No, it just definitionally exists as "whatever is the source of the universe and its rational order"

>>520266419
You have your facts and opinions backwards.

Such is the nature of the religious.

>Grim.

>>520266544
>"whatever is the source of the universe and its rational order"
Assuming that this is a conscious being, without evidence, is dishonest. You simply don't know, and you shouldn't pretend that you do.

>>520266551
Death is just a waste of time. I always respawn. That's a fact.

>>520266659
>Assuming that this is a conscious being
rationality requires consciousness

>>520266696
Not really. Just more conjecture from you. As far as we can tall, the universe formed naturally with no hint of there being incidental design. Life formed naturally, with no thought behind it.

Most smart people don't believe the religions are correct in their interpretation but they can still believe in god or an afterlife just out of cope and not knowing for sure

Nobody knows why the universe exists so a creator is just as likely as no reason at all
Afterlife is very cope though, people need to accept that our brains are source of our consciousness

>>520266813
>As far as we can tall, the universe formed naturally
based on what you fucking idiot

>>520266860
show me the physical, empirical measurement of qualia
go ahead

>>520266860
Name those "smart" people.

>>520266918
Physics.... You did graduate high school, right?

>>520266980
I graduated from a pure science school.

>>520266980
Physics is ontologically dependent on mathematics, which itself is ontologically dependent on logic, which completely reinforces my argument
you're probably in your first semester, stop speaking

>>520266948
>Show me physical measurement of made up concept
How about no?

>>520266969
It's literally anyone who is smart, if they believe in any of the human-made religions earnestly then they are not smart
It's just one of the cutoffs for being smart to begin with

>>520265962
>t. hylic, mesmerized by the world of appearances

>>520267126
You are not smart. You are dumb, and you never win in any real competition against smart people.

>god is
an imaginary 'father figure' for niggers

>>520267113
Math simply is you retarded nigger. We didn't invent it. It's inherent. This doesn't mean there's a magic jew in the sky.

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>>520267113
>which completely reinforces my argument

Totally utterly wrong. You don't even have a rudimentary understanding of what you are talking about, but you think you know more than the entire global scientific community, as well as every educated person on the matter in the world.

This is why I am glad the world is becoming atheist, it was a long time coming.

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>>520265962

Why

do

you

type

like

this?

>>520267310
I know more than the entirety of science community in the worlx.

if god is real, strike me down before i can hit 'post'
where is the old testament god now? i thought that guy sent locusts & infinite rain

>>520267424
Matthew 4:7

its not so much skepticism of god but skepticism that some random human jackass who is telling you what to do (which conveniently benefits them ) "because god said so"

which is obviously false otherwise god would just tell you directly since his is omnipotent and don't would never be inconvenient to do so for every living thing at any moment in time

so yea, the people who want you to pay them money every week for the rest of your life just to tell you you're a good goy are probably lying. doesn't mean you have to lie and steal, which are antisocial behaviors, but you don't have to be a zogbot

>>520265962
Religious cucks have obstructed laws that would ease the pain that exists in this world, concepts like "sanctity of life" are still recognized by law whose only purpose is to multiply suffering on earth. Instead of allowing abortion, drugs, euthanasia, eugenetics they want to make a black people world where everyone is some kind of genetic mistake with no rights. They love suffering and want everyone to be like them.

>>520267396
Less readable if it's one big paragraph.

I don't care if you think it's reddit, the spacing long predated reddit, and it predated (You) as well.

>>520265962
Do you really believe that all of these complex life systems, the complex systems of the universe, and the complex information coded in DNA are all the result of random luck? Can random mutations over millions of years, when just one wrong mutation can wipe out a life form, be explained by luck? Use your head a little and stop reading (((science)))

>>520267219
I never said it was invented by us, you illiterate nigger

>>520267310
literally nothing in that post even resembles a counter argument

>>520267126
>How about no?
I accept your concession

Smart, and stupid is a competition. If you are not the number 1, then you are just a loser.

>>520266980
ah yes, the perfect laws of physics more complicated than any system any humans have ever imagined just poofed into existence one day for no reason at all lol

>>520267585
And who created god?
>inb4 he alwasy existed, he is out of time, etc...
Same thing could be the universe

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>>520265962
its not about belief
its about experience
take DMT and get back to us
or do it old school
fast and pray in the desert for 40 days and nights and get back to us

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>>520267396
why

do

you

care

>>520265962
You don't believe that the most complex being imaginable just existed forever without a cause? Humans are to complex to exist naturally so a super complex god being must just exists without a cause and created us.

>>520267585
>Do you really believe that all of these complex life systems, the complex systems of the universe, and the complex information coded in DNA are all the result of random luck? Can random mutations over millions of years, when just one wrong mutation can wipe out a life form, be explained by luck? Use your head a little and stop reading (((science))
yeah, but the visualisation of some omnipotent physical being at a CAD station designing everything down to the last detail is pretty ridiculous too

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>>520267564

In case you didn’t know, you just downvoted someone with 10,000 upvotes. That’s right. 10k. 10 grand. 10 Dinero. You think I give a shit? You are just a drop in a river. Just a little itty bitty gain of sand in the desert. You mean nothing to me. Just watch as my next post gets 50 upvotes. Watch as my next comment gets 2 replies. Get bent pal.

>>520268483
happens every workday on earth a million times

>>520266014
based midwit retard
turn the other cheek while your nation crumbles

>>520265962
>welfare chimps are great!
>Trump is le bad, grrrr
>religion is stupid! (Only Christianity, can't offend my middle-eastern, toddler raping overlords)
Every thread on here this morning. What's got the pbtpid "liberals" so rabid and thread-happy today?

>>520266184
>The only fact is that death is final
>He's not uploading his memories into a robot and living 400 years
Lmao what a cuck! skill issue

>>520265962
God is undefined, it could be an essence,a man, a singularity, an atom, an element, a presence

But Religion is for the retarded

>>520268703
already came out of nothing once. it only took 27 billion years the first time. universe is very big and will be around for a few trillion rebirths most likely.

>>520268851
But your human existence is the most important. Humans are Gods walking on the Earth. Once you reincarnate, you won't know anything.

>>520268969
to be, or not to be, that is the question

>>520268560
Do you want to die for your nation?

>>520266246
Holy fuck you people are rerarded

You don't believe Chad exists?

>>520265962
Yeah it must be you who's right, not everyone else. Thank science I have an educated elite to teach my children the virtues of nihilism.

>>520265962
>There is no next life
actually its more likely that there is some sort of respawn but its not like people/religions imagine it.
you are probably not gonna be able to influence how you respawn as what and where.
also the universe itself is a timeless endless thing that goes on forever, its always evolving, always changing.
so life and living is probably as endless as the universe.
living forever is about as terrifying as the alternative of there being nothing after death.

>>520265962
>Some people rob themselves and others of pleasure and happiness for the whole lives, thinking they will be rewarded for their discomfort in "the next life."

Aligning with God in this life brings peace, fulfillment, and happiness.

>>520265962
You're delusional.

>is the universe rationally ordered

The answer is a resounding "no".

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>>520270461
this is all you can say. You have no refutation, you can only throw an emotional tantrum,

>>520271493
Anyone who thinks:
>there is one single entity keeping the planet in some kind of rational order

Is absolutely mentally ill.

>>520268205
This. Belief and faith are Catholic inventions. You can know the truth by seeking the truth.

>>520271527
>schizophrenics
>aka people who think god talks to them
>claims atheists are schizophrenic

>>520265962
do you think in words or pure thought? where do the words come from? god is made out of words. there are churches and congregations. there are good deeds and charity. there is survival of group fitness. the god thing is measurably real. observe the agency of imaginary things. same as sqrt(-1).

>>520267310
>throws an emotional tantrum

Atheists can't be real, they're just completely delusional and illogical.

>>520271560
All of existence is God. There’s no such thing as anything without God.

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>>520271623
Atheists are the most delusional demographic on this planet.

They literally believe that Everything came from Nothing

LOL

Absolutely cucked.

>>520265962
any response arguing with OP is pearls before swine. i don't argue with you retards anymore. i'm not religious either. If you can't see, you can't see.

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>>520266014
>Why don't you believe me without evidence, you idiot

>>520266246
>>Is rational order possible through irrational means
>no
Objectively false. We can demonstrate order through chaos through simulation, the only requirement of the universe is a basic set of rules, the complexity comes all on its own.

>>520268205
>Take drugs and trust your mind to inherently know the truth of the universe, this is totally not magic bullshit

>>520271527
How can anyone refute something that boils down to:
>The universe is impossible without god because I said so
>Saying otherwise means you're just mad at him, because he exists
>People saying he doesn't exist are in a cult of deniers, because he's plainly obvious to be existent
It presupposes god has to be real on virtue that he has to. It's circular and retarded. You literally can't imagine a world without him, therefore everyone else is stupid for being able to.

>>520271623
Insisting there are mundane unguided explanations for everything is schizophrenic. Look no further than the ridiculous explanations for the Big Bang that atheists make if you want to see schizophrenia. Hold truth as your highest value if you want to discover what’s actually true and not a fever dream.

>>520271769
>They literally believe that Everything came from Nothing
thats also what the religions believe.
God came from nothing and then created everything in the Big Bang.

>>520265962
the truth that many are not ready for

>>520265962
Both retards and geniuses believe in a god or gods. The retards because they don't know any better, and the geniuses because they DO know better. Most really smart people throughout history have been highly religious. Even today, many people come to Christianity for instance through logic, and the faith comes later.

If you don't understand the logic, you may just be retarded. That's alright, retards can lead full, happy lives these days.

>>520272153
The real truth most aren’t ready for is that you’re stuck thinking for all eternity and there is no escape.

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>>520268205
No one can read your shitty blurry screencap

>>520266696
>rationality requires consciousness

How do you know this?

>>520272077
>God came from nothing
God didn't *come* from anywhere - He is eternal, he *is*, always was, always will be. God has no origin, He IS the origin. That isn't "something from nothing", that's "everything from Something".

>>520271769
>They literally believe that Everything came from Nothing

How does that differ from what religious people believe? Lol

>>520272302
lmao

>>520272302
OK, so then I can just say that the universe is eternal and that matter just always was, with ZERO explanation needed, and it would just as valid as what you just said

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>>520265962
Why should I listen to a frog poster?

>god is the origin because he just is okay
>the universe can't be the origin because it's not named God duh

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>>520271769
>Preacher
Hah, you wish. They're much nicer people than preachers.
Does he ask for anything in return? No, he teaches to those who will listen. Nobody takes their kids to the science house to learn science or face some sort of eternal punishment for not. Science asks for nothing but understanding, and that makes it far better than a preacher.
>World creation theory
The big bang is not the theory of creation, but the theory of what happened immediately following creation. We can't figure out what's before the start of everything in motion, that's logically impossible. If you wanna slap a god there go for it, no scientist will fight you.
>Religious text(evolution)
Unlike religious text, evolution attempts to actually find evidence. DNA, fossil record, dating methods, laboratory experiment. Change through sexual reproduction is confirmed, and the entire basis of biology and microbiology relies on evolution being a fact to even work.

That's the difference: Trust vs Explanation, Obedience vs Volunteer. Religion wish they were free like atheists

>>520272393
There are only two possible origins for Creation, logically speaking: Ex Nihilo, or Uncaused Cause. There are no other options.

Atheists believe in Ex Nihilo, a position for which there is zero evidence to support. Religious people believe in Uncaused Cause, which is inductively provable - there MUST be an uncaused cause or else you're stuck in a "turtles all the way down" tautology.

>>520272077
You don't seem to understand that God having a cause means that He isn't God.

By definition God is uncaused.

>>520272048
It really is obvious to everyone that God exists, you're all self-deluded into thinking that He doesn't.

Only those who are no longer deluded will see that He exists.

>>520272338
Read the first response.

>>520272422
So you're denying science completely then? As Science informs us that the universe is NOT eternal and that it had a beginning. The universe is CREATED.
Atheists are like AI LLMs who deny the existence of their human creators.

>>520265962
What you have to understand is some people are real stupid. Like don't think about anything stupid

>>520272556
Since you have NO proof for your claims, I don't need any either. Also, I did read your first response. You said that your logic tracks because there is magic involved, I just do not accept that as a valid explanation for anything, and never will

>>520272422
That universe you are referring to is God. God is not some magical old dude in a white robe living in the sky, God is a concept - God is Consciousness itself. All things exist only within and because of Consciousness, Awareness of Existing. That's God.

You mock because you don't understand what anyone is actually talking about. Magical Sky Fairy is a story for children because they aren't smart enough yet to understand the idea. Milk instead of meat, as the Apostles put it sometimes.

>>520265962
>the origin of religions
Jewish, Christian, buddhist and muslim religion don't have meme origins
Now buddha isn't a God and jews believe in human magic, that leaves us 2 religions

>>520272546
Not all atheists believe in Ex Nihilo
Uncaused cause is just as possible for the universe itself

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>>520265962

>>520272545
God created Science, every truly great scientist understands this.

You're all liars worshipping one of many tools that God used to create the Universe.

>>520272694
I already have proof. God informed me that all those who are damned and going to Hell (perishing) will be unable to perceive the Truth.

>>520265962
Oh, look, another godless Jew retard post, wow, haven’t seen one.in so long!

>>520265962
shit take
gods are parasites
all gods are evil
the worst is adonai the child raping kike the literal devil who puts us immortal divine souls into theseprison bodies
fuck adonai he is the the worst being in existance and is not omnipotent

>>520272556
> It really is obvious to everyone that God exists, you're all self-deluded into thinking that He doesn't.
> Only those who are no longer deluded will see that He exists.
And this is the cognitive dissonance that makes it impossible for anyone to have a conversation about this with you.

Can you answer this simple question: Would you be able to tell the difference between a universe with god, and a universe with no god?

If your answer becomes "Well the universe can't exist without god", you already failed the thought experiment. The goal is for you to conceptualize a universe that just works this way. I theorize you won't allow yourself to, or you're simply unable to. You cannot accept that the way the universe works can work on its own, it requires a puppeteer, yet you can't point to which strings are required because it turns out there aren't any.

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>>520265962
Everyone knows that God exists, but the atheists are no different from AI sims who deny the existence of human creators.

>>520272302
what you call "God" is simply the universe itself, its the universe that is eternal and there never was a big bang.
basically God and the universe are one and the same and everything within it is created by it as a byproduct of how it works.
what religions also get wrong is that they put humans at the center of this, thinking that God/the universe is listening to them or gives a shit about them or keeps track of anything they do.
Humanity is basically just mold on a small dirtball and of no significance to the universe/God.
so yes all religions are wrong and their idea of a God doesnt reflect reality.

>>520266117
no fuck your child raping god
fuck the "devil" too

>>520272922
You already know that God exists, but you desperately wish that He doesn't exist because you are evil.

>>520272556
>As Science informs us that the universe is NOT eternal
thats actually wrong, the Big Bang theory could never be proven and the theory has failed decades ago.
the universe is most likely eternal.

>>520272721
Let me walk you through the Cosmological Argument.
>Does the universe exist?
Yes
>Could it theoretically not exist?
Yes
>Then it must have a cause
We call the universe "cogent": if it exists, it could possibly not exist. All cogent things come from either another cogent thing, or a noncogent thing.

Noncogent is defined as "If it exists, it MUST NECESSARILY exist".

The universe exists, and there was a time when it did not exist, which we call the Big Bang. Therefore, the universe is cogent. It must have come from either a cogent thing, or end in coming from a noncogent thing.

There was nothing before the universe existed that was cogent, so it must have come from a noncogent thing, a thing that MUST exist.

Men call that thing "God". We have debated His qualities and attributes for millenia, but His existence as a fact was never in question.

>>520272778
>God created Science
I don't believe you, you've given me no reason to think this. I think science just happened on its own. Now show me a reason my thought is less valid than yours without appealing to the concept that things can't exist without god, yet god can exist without god without that being a contradiction. Lmao

>>520265962
no one is obligated to educate your stupid ass. live your life and mind your fucking business.

>>520272922
you are blind
you are deaf
you are delusional

Like many others of your ilk, you will come up with any excuse to evade Justice.

You all shall realize that nothing you say matters as nothing you say has truth.

You all shall realize that nothing you think matters as nothing you think has truth.

>>520267424
god is a rat fuck nigger theif who makes a inverted reality where evil is treated as good and vice versa

>>520267530
no it was god
god loves han chinese and gypsies and jews and other inhuman demonic entities
why
theyre its kids
literal energy vampires

>>520272962
God and the universe are inseperable, this is true. And, being a part of the universe, you too are inseperable from God. Why would you think that Consciousness wouldn't care for Itself? That's you, brother. You are the world, and the world is within you, as is God. God and Man are the same, even if Man is blind to it. That too is part of God's Purpose.

>>520273078
>The universe exists, and there was a time when it did not exist, which we call the Big Bang
Some people proposed that this may have happened this way
And then your argument falls apart

>>520273084
>laws happened without a lawmaker
>there is no rationality, everything happened by chance. it took billions of years for my computer to magically assemble itself out of dust.

Thank God there will be no more atheists soon.

The most vile, disgusting, delusional people are in this demographic.

>>520273104
i am going to literally delete your false god adonai the child rapist

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>>520273009
That doesn't even make sense and you don't even realize why not.

Think about it retard: If I knew god exists, why would I choose hell and not heaven? Because I'm evil? Where the fuck's free will then? There's no rationality in the choice to be evil if I know the consequences. Logically, evil people must doubt. People are not convinced of god, especially Christians, for they express evil too. You are not surrounded by the devout.

>>520273253
athiests excuse yahwehs crimes
inexcusable

>>520265962
it's easy to believe in a god when you have a low IQ or are surrounded by religious niggers in your social immediacy

also when religion is part of your political party, e.g. conservaniggers

>>520273262
I can talk to you because at least you are much more honest about how evil you are in comparison to the rest of your atheist brethren.

Are you looking forward to Yahweh's Judgment? The last day is fast approaching.

>>520273009
And you desperately wish he does exist to get sadistic vengeance on people you disagree with or don't like, which also makes you evil

Any doubt in my mind about God not being real was crushed when I saw the collective behavior of atheists when they were able to really link up for the first time in history in the early 2000s.

>>520273211
God and bacteria are the same too.
basically Life is just a byproduct of the universe and since death and nothingness isnt real and respawns are highly likely why would the universe/God give a shit about anything?
fundamentally it makes no difference to the universe if the earth explodes tomorrow, life will simply form somewhere else again and continue on. there are probably trillions of worlds out there filled with life already.

>>520265962
>I just don't understand how anyone could believe in a god.
Easy, some people are retarded.

>>520273402
Why would I want vengeance on any of you? I can only pity you.

>>520273301
Due to your evil nature, you are filled with self-hatred and an urge for self-destruction, of course you will choose Hell.

Heaven is only for God's Flock, the lot of you may be predestined for Hell.

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>>520273253
>Laws happened without a lawmaker
Correct! They're called norms. Animals form civil groups with accepted rules, all on their own.
>there is no rationality, everything happened by chance. it took billions of years for my computer to magically assemble itself out of dust.
My computer was designed by a less complicated, weaker computer. This is a demonstration of complexity arising from the less complex. The stars made computers, since we're stars too.
>The most vile, disgusting, delusional people are in this demographic.
You literally just wished for my nonexistence/suffering and think you get the high horse still

>>520265962
if you're a retard you might believe God is some Gandalf looking dude in the sky, if you're a midwit you think he doesn't exist, if you're high IQ you realize what God truly is

>>520273241
And what is their counter argument for how it happened otherwise? We have a pretty good idea of when the universe started, and a lot of evidence to back it up. You could always argue against it, but without proposing an alternative theory and showing evidence for it, your argument is really just an Argument from Incredulity, which is a logical fallacy.

>>520273372
lol youre such a loser fuck your child raping god
i have never really hurt anyone else
your god has killed infinitely
fuck him and fuck you
i am going to judge your false god of the bible he is beneath me

So basically what is going on:
>the Universe is God but the universe doesnt give a shit about Humans and all religions are wrong and all these "holy books" are BS

>>520267424
Why would God strike down some miserable faggot who's already doing a fine job of striking themselves down and letting themselves get replaced? Let's be real, you hope for him to strike you down so you won't have to kill yourself later on in life after realizing you were a mistake.

>>520265962
>every group of humans in history comes to the same conclusion that a higher power exists
>OP: I am smarter than them all

>>520265962
The ontology actually goes like this (warning to low iq subhumans, this is an analogy): the world is diffuse "light" and a "mirror" and every infinitesimal speck of the mirror is a rock, a plant, a thought, an idea, a spirit, a human, these pieces either move by intertial forces from possibly primordial pasts or through agential "free will" and are able to reflect the diffuse light around them, the more or less primordial inertia is sort of chaotic, but makes the mirror focus the light mfore or less around what we call "the old gods" and then there were "breakthroughs" that wanted the entire mirror to focus the light into a single cross point, monism, "montotheistm" but after Nietzsche it became clear that this EXPERIMENT failed, now we may or may not enter an inertial long ago dictated part of the cycle called "age of aqualrius" which is not some astrology specifically related thing, but symbolically means part of the cycle that very much makes focusing the light harder due to various older pressures, if one monotheistic religion would have won the world then it could have proxy the crossed light created lther types of cycles or broken them all together, but this experiment failed this cycle around, prepare for a "hyper reformation" not even of a Christian nature but of a fracturing into SO many different light crossings that we may end up with more gods than in the age of pisces


Vielleicht, vielleicht vielleicht

>>520273462
Because God/The Universe is you. You're a part of it. The most important part, because He made you in His image. You are His avatar in this wonderful world He created, and He created it just for you.

>>520273583
Succinctly put, thank you.

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>>520265962
idiot

>>520273660
>No group agrees who the higher power is
>You: MINE IS CORRECT!!!

>>520273663
how many mg of meth are you smoking bud?

>>520273537
alright food's here, thanks for the entertainment, bots, pajeets, shills, etc.

>>520273611
Satan, your days are numbered. You and your angels will be cast into hellfire.

It will be glorious when only Christians are granted eternal life, with all of evil separated, perished for eternity.

>>520273686
nope god is a rat fuck loser i used to bully him before he made this fake realm to larp as a god
he is a big fish in a small pond and i am a whale shark
fuck the god of the bible i am the true god if anything
but omnipotence doesnt exist that shit is gay
imagine wanting worship like adonais loser child raping ass

>>520265962
>Some people rob themselves and others of pleasure and happiness for the whole lives, thinking they will be rewarded for their discomfort in "the next life."
t. on a dozen different antidepressants

>>520273793
lol satan is a rat fuck niggertoo
brainwashed puppet of your god
you brainwashed sack of shit you will join yahweh in his prison along with all of his angels

>>520273793
>Christians are granted eternal life
For worshipping a jew? How does that work?

>>520273660
The Midwit classic. Thank God that re**it atheism is dying off after people find out how truly arrogant and retarded they actually are.

Sir Isaac Newton was devoutly Christian, he wrote a bunch of theological treatises that he considered FAR more important than his work in calculus. Apparently, OP is smarter than Isaac Newton.

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If god doesn't exist then who saved me from being an white American trump supporting nigger?

>>520273145
Meanwhile you sit idle and let it happen like a rat fuck nigger

>>520273686
>You're a part of it.
same as the other quintillion lifeforms that exist in the universe. so basically meaningless beyond your task of disassembling the dying planet.
>He made you in His image.
humans are actually insanely badly designed. there are lots of limitations to the human body.
its actually more like a mutant that was shaped by constant changes in the earths magnetic field and the current suns and previous suns electromagnetic emissions.
these same forces is what will snuff out all life on earth eventually.

>>520273855
i dont do it for the reward i do it cuz i dont want to give money to child raping godtanists

>>520265962
>nothing exploded now we have talking monkeys in aluminium cannisters
Reality makes about as much sense if you're not a brainlet.

>>520273908
lol no i do chaos magic and affect reality
suck 40 dicks you lil chode coward fed
maybe say that shit irl not behind a screen or voice to skull you lil bitch

>>520273806
I look forward to the inevitable conclusion of this game you two call Life. I hope it's streamed on pay per view so I can watch the Ancient of Days smoke your ass like He did Sodom and Gomorrah.

>>520273537
> predestined for Hell
If that's true, then I'd hope you hate god too. Why the fuck would you be okay with hell being a predestination? You're sick in the head dude

>>520265962
Haven’t you heard that one Carl Sagan quote about bamboozlers? People are largely retarded cattle, uncreative, undisciplined, incapable of critical thinking, ruled by basic emotions like anger and fear. If it wasn’t religion they obsessed over it’d be mythology or cryptids or politics or something else. They need to dull their senses so they don’t blow their brains out.

>>520265962
>There is no next life. That is the very reason you shouldn't waste this one, because it's the only life you will ever get.
>You'll ever
The concept of "you" stops being a thing after you die. So what time span of "ever".
You don't even understand what you say. You're just as dumb as member of any other religious group.

>>520265962
You're a fucking retard and TLDR

>>520273888
>Sir Isaac Newton was devoutly Christian, he wrote a bunch of theological treatises that he considered FAR more important than his work in calculus.
Oh, you mean the guy who died from chronic mercury poisoning? I'm sure being intoxicated with mercury wouldn't have you believing crazy shit like burning bushes that talk, people resurrecting, people splitting a sea open, etc, right?

>>520273914
>insanely badly designed
I always love this argument, as though the arguer could put together a "better" human. You have absolutely no idea just how much goes on in your own body every single day.

Go ahead and make a fish. Until then, shut the fuck up about God's design being "shitty".

>same as the other quintillion lifeforms
Specifically NOT the same. They were not made in His image, you were. They are not His avatar, they are the sandbox that His avatar, you, plays in.

>>520274019
Your confusing predetermined with predestined. You have free will, use it to not go to hell.

>>520273589
We dont have any evidence to back up how the universe started or that it 'started', only that it's expanding
I already presented the argument in my previous post
>Uncaused cause is just as possible for the universe itself

>>520274019
>why the fuck would you be okay with hell being a predestination?
Not that anon, but you're missing the point: it doesn't matter if we're ok with it or not. God didn't ask our permission, because He didn't need it. The pot does not say to the Potter: "make me better", but it fulfills the purpose for which it was made.

What you're okay or not okay with is totally irrelevant. Nobody fucking asked you if you, or us, were ok with it.

>>520273793
>
It will be glorious when only Christians are granted eternal life, with all of evil separated, perished for eternity.

Ironically though, according to scripture, you're just as hellbound as anyone else. Maybe even moreso, since you commit evil in the name of God.

>>520265962
>There is no next life. That is the very reason you shouldn't waste this one, because it's the only life you will ever get.
And that's why it's advisable to ditch all 580000 years of cultural tradition entirely and spend your few fertile years trying to "find yourself" among perverts, whores and drug addicts. Because who could possibly know better how to live a good and fulfilled life, how to form a wise a just society, than adolescent you.

>>520274179
I see that symbolism escapes you. Alright. Perhaps the Bible isn't for you after all. That's ok, but let your wisers and your betters have a discussion without your valueless input, would you kindly?

>>520266980
the physics of the perfect eclipse is a sign of divine intervention in the orbits of the sun and moon and earth as a system

>>520274210
>as though the arguer could put together a "better" human
well the Human body has many bad design choices that make it very inefficient.
>They were not made in His image
said who? there might as well be lifeforms out there that are superior compared to Humans.
but basically all lifeforms are the "avatar" of the universe anyway and the universe doesnt give a shit about individuals.
same as you not really giving a shit if some bacterium in your colon lives or dies. you wouldnt even notice.

>>520274356
We know that it is expanding. That alone is evidence that it had a starting point, a point from which it began expanding.

Come on, try to keep up please.

>>520266057
He's right though. Screech your dumb insults at him as much as you want, it won't change the facts.

>>520274245
Predestined and predetermined are synonyms.
>You have free will, use it to not go to hell.
You said I know god's real and I'm going to hell. There's no free way for me not to go to hell at this point, since you think I already wholeheartedly rejected him despite knowing for a fact I could have heaven if I only behaved.
"We're all secretly christian" is a retarded concept, face it.

>>520265962
Define god

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>>520274007
>MY GOD WILL DO LE EPIC BAD THINGS TO YOU
Your pedo jew can't even stop child rape

>>520274519
No that alone is not evidence
The universe could have existed before it started expanding or be in a certain state before it started expanding
You're the one who needs to keep up, your mental capacity is clearly limited

>>520274636
>do my homework for me!
You seem to mistake OP for one of your daddy's house negroes. You entitled little shit.

>>520266014
kys gook shill

>>520274369
Your logic applies to atheism too you know.

The universe can just be as it is, without a creator. It just started and will end, without a cause or creation or direction. It literally just happens to be like this.

Whether you're okay with no afterlife is irrelevant, whether it exists or not will not depend on what you feel is just or correct.

>>520274431
Yes, I must not understand what symbolism is because I don't implicitly cede to the cope "this ridiculous thing written in my sacred texts... it.. it wuz muh arbitrary symbolism bro, there's other things that aren't symbolism. How do I know? I just know. Thank you." argument

nigger

>>520274824
>inb4 the christcuck replies with "muh god is eternal"

>>520274539
>You said I know god's real and I'm going to hell.
Not me, I'm just another anon who chimed in halfway through, check the IDs
>There's no free way for me not to go to hell at this point
That is only true once you die, and since you are still here talking to me you still have time. The only thing it has to do with your "behavior" is that it requires you to swallow your pride and admit you can't do what God requires and you need help (jesus).
>"We're all secretly christian" is a retarded concept, face it.
Lol like I said I'm not the anon who was originally talking to you and I completely agree with you that we are NOT all "secretly Christian"

The main point I was getting at is basically God knowing what we will do looks to us like a predetermined outcome but in reality we are still more than able to change our course If we really want to.

>>520265962
>Worship science instead of God
Shut the fuck up, hindu

>>520274470
>many bad design choices that make it inefficient
Unsurprising a German is autistically talking about efficiency, but again you're blind to the other aspects of the body that perhaps require that inefficiency in order to function. There are inefficiencies, true, but they have a reason for being that way, even if you or I don't understand why. Knowing why is ultimately unnecessary.

You didn't design the human body. You have no fucking idea why it is the way it is. You don't know the trade-offs, or the trade-ups. Pointing out the inefficiencies is a waste of time.

Again, go design a working, living fish, or shut up about "poor design choices".

>says who?
Says "I AM". The Ancient of Days, the Lord of Hosts, the Holy One of Israel. In fact, He is the only one with the authority to ever make that claim in the first place.
>you don't give a shit about some bacterium in your colon dying
I don't. But I'm not that bacterium, and that bacterium is of less value than myself, so why the fuck would I?

>>520265962
>reddit spacing
>god doesn't real
okay, fellow native user. I actually have a fascinating scientific hypothesis which provides to the plausibility that a omnipotent consciousness may of existed, but you're a faggot so I will just flex that and not share it with you.

i, too, was once young i thought i knew everything

>>520275011
>That is only true once you die
Why doesn't this set off an alarm bell for you?
Think about it.
Why does this become true only after you die? Because religion requires a point of no return in order to control you in THIS life. Logically, god shouldn't give a shit when you repent, since we're talking about a timeless entity with literally eternity to set you straight. The idea of "Welp you fucked men in your 60 years of life, time for eternity of fire" is so retarded in the scope of eternity, no god would give a shit as they'd be far above the concepts of reward and punishment for a life lived.

An ant might as well dream to be an eagle because they dragged the leaf to base all on their own. That's basically the equivalent of heaven for simply living good in a finite small, ultimately pointless life.

>>520275222
If the bible is teaching you something insightful at a later age, in my estimation your situation was pretty fucked up when you were young.

You're supposed to make mistakes and fall for scams when you're young, not the other way around.

>>520267695
You are not White, it's obvious.

>>520275215
there's certainly plenty of godnigger schizo generals on /pol/ to share your niggerlicious drivel

>>520275180
>but they have a reason for being that way
not really, they exist because some mutations didnt work out. overall badly developed.
>the Holy One of Israel
Saturn/Yahweh/EL isnt actually a God and never was. the jewish religion is as wrong as any other religion so you can safely discard their nonsense.
>and that bacterium is of less value than myself
you are the bacterium of the universe, for the universe you hold no significance in any way.

lrn2metaphor and grow up

>muh science

>>520266184

you don't know that. final for the body (even science isn't 100% clear on this - see brain 'death' etc.), but not for the soul/spirit

>>520266813

>something came from nothing
>it's science bros just trust me

>>520275308
>in order to control you
This is the crux of it, like it or not everyone is controlled by something, Christians submit themselves to the control of God. The average guy submits himself to the control of his wife, boss, government, society, et al. Hell even the things we consider "freedom" can be slavery. Consider porn, I thought in the early 00s freedom meant doing whatever I wanted which led me to a life of drinking, drugs, sex and overall emptiness. Worst of all I became enslaved to various drugs and feelings, the exact opposite of freedom. There is no such thing as true freedom on this planet, there are consequences for every action taken which control our actions. Of all the fallacies people believe being free is one of the hardest ones to break. We are ALL being controlled by something, so why look down on people who willingly submit themselves to God rather than the man who is controlled by lust?

>>520266980

Newton and Leibniz both believed in God, incidentally. retards I guess...

I don't understand so many believe in God but hardly anyone believe in gods

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>>520267310

this isn't the first time the world has degenerated

here is a lesson in both history and God from a famous scientist:

>>520276111
yes I also say I speak in metaphors when I say something retarded or ludicrous that will make me look bad. works every time

>>520276359

pero, es la verdad

>mexican intellectuals

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>>520276232
>I drank, did drugs, had sex, and was overall empty
So you got brain damage and rebounded by worshipping a jew?

>>520276382
yes, it's true that the goyim will slurp it up every time, specially if it has the name Jesus/God attached to it, works every time!

it's a metaphor goyim, trust me, you're just too much of a midwit to be able to arbitrarily pick and choose which ones are metaphors and which ones aren't, using a separate layer of arbitrary choices. If you can't make the bible look good enough through these mental gymnastics, you're not smart enough.

>>520275431
my experiences confirmed what is in the bible, and now it is simply undeniable. the devil's greatest trick is convincing you he doesn't exist

>>520276526
that's 80% of the christian/catholic/etc audience right there, people who destroy their bodies/minds and the people around them, later on they regret it and just pass the burden to some entity in the ether who will "forgive them"

it's like having some magical entity that gives you free passes for being a nigger if you pretend to regret it

>>520276526
Lol I see how it is with you. Just remember, you chose to go to hell despite plenty of people trying to warn you. YOU and only you made the decision to go to hell.

>>520276865
>You didn't worship my jew so you're going to hell
Whatever you say mutilated cattle.

>>520276749
I'm afraid our brains aren't on equal footing to have a constructive conversation, I do wish that at least you have some fun chasing the cognitive smoke and mirrors clown show that is religion

>>520276855
Yes, so they can improve. Otherwise, how could they? They need to be absolved of their debts before they can process new accumulation; the narrative debt of their original position is too great to change by themselves, and the new narrative is a productive change.

>>520277019
We genuinely care about you, and want you to be happy, and only find the truth. If you stick to truth you cant go wrong. And we arent mutilated:
>Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
>For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
>Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

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>>520276855
>pass the burden to some entity
They worship a jew after all. picrel

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>>520265962
I am a non believer but I know for a fact that believers live fuller lives and die better. Belief is the thing, placebo.

>>520265962
God for the most part is similar to a lot of music artists and bands. He is good but the fandom sucks

>>520277111
i don't do "religion". i study the bible independently and follow it. best of luck to you, brother

>>520277159
Why do you need the forgiveness of some higher entity to deal with material business? As this person shared, he abused many aspects of his own life and other people's life, why is it central to one's improvement and redeeming yourself in the eyes of the people you've hurt, to seek some ethereal "forgiveness"?

You know you can stop drinking, amend the wrongs you've done with other people, and so on without any intervention, guidance, or observation from a magical entity, right?

In truth, this process that happens to godfaggots stems from falling to a pit and simply grabbing the dumbest, biggest low hanging cope fruit that gives people some meaning, which is typically religion/god

good for you if you stop drinking and doing other physically/mentally harmful things, but you're still a muppet and a nigger if you believe in god

>>520277810
you have done and continue to do evil that you are ashamed of.

You can lie, but we know the truth.

>>520265962
They’re either raised to do that, lack education in some cases (I don’t think religious people are dumb btw), or go through really intense stressful times and turn to deities for relief
My parents are super duper religious due to that last reason, but I’m not

>>520276232
You're almost there. Now ask, why would god give a shit about controlling you in this life and then never again for all eternity? Logically, it doesn't make a lick of sense. It sounds entirely like something that someone who only benefits from controlling others in this life came up with.

Now what benefits from controlling others for only this lifetime? Other people. Religion is manmade, QED.

>>520277476
Pascal's wager has always been invalid as a sound argument because it presupposes equal possibility of the existence of the christian god and nonexistence. But christianity isn't the only religion, so logically a wager which maximizes your chances is to live a good life and bank on the multitude of gods that don't care about direct faith to reward you. Pascal's wager requires you believe in christianity in the first place to make sense.

>>520277865
Any human does "evil", and any human will naturally feel shame for it, including yourself. The difference here is that I'm not delegating forgiveness to a magical entity under the promise of a great afterlife. If I've wronged someone I will deal with the person directly when the ego and self reflection allow for it

Why the fuck would there be an afterlife if there wasn’t a before life? Makes no sense.

>>520265962
>Embrace science education so your children can have a better future.
Not believing in any gods has nothing to do with any unrelated maths or science.

>>520278180
And so because you are evil, you deserve death. You will die as every other human in history has died. That is the price of your sins.

Now, you can continue throwing an emotional tantrum at God and never repent, this will lead you to the death of your soul.

Or you can plead for God to save you, leading to the repentance & regeneration necessary for the salvation of your soul.

Of course however, the Bible teaches us that this is not up to you, it is God who chooses people to become Christians. You cannot save yourself, only God can save you.

Hope & pray that God saves you sometime in the future. Hope & pray that you are not predestined for eternal destruction alongside Satan and the rest.

Good luck.

>>520278122
Again, you are unable to understand unless you are part of God's flock, born again of the Spirit.

>>520278678
Meds

>>520277810
Thats nice, but not relevant. My explaination was very clear. It's a narrative absolution; a break with identity. No break? No change. Sure some people can change through force of will, this produces a unique effect efficiently that is a benefit to everyone and your only argument is "you're still a muppet nigger". Dumb people need help too, and if it works, it works. Any other system would need a large amount of effort to conceptualize and implement.

>>520278122
>why would god give a shit about controlling you in this life and then never again for all eternity?
Because this life is the only chance you get to pick your destination, and God lives his creation and wants it in his house rather than Satan's. This life's purpose is to determine where you spend eternity. Like it or not everyone who has ever existed lives forever, you will live forever too. This life will determine where that forever is.

people who usually believe in a god had a rough upbringing and were abused a lot.

>>520265962
>Embrace science education so your children can have a better future.
Serpent be gone

>>520278678
>Again, you are unable to understand unless you are part of God's flock, born again of the Spirit.
If I'm unable to understand, then logically I never had a chance and your god's an asshole.

Why do you get heaven? Why do you get to understand while the rest of us suffer for finite crimes for infinite time? Why do you insist such a cruel, irrational god should exist? You're the fool, not me.

>>520278678
Platitudes and vapid threats which only have validity within your system of belief remain ineffective. I

It's hilarious that you're complaining about me throwing an emotional tantrum, when all you've done so far is clutch pearls and call me evil for pointing out redemption and self growth do not require any skydaddy.

>>520279259
You seem upset and seem to have described the solution to your own problem.

>>520278935
Repeating to me christianity's attempt to answer the question doesn't invalidate the question. You're still left with a god giving a crap about something he shouldn't, with a literally infinite overreaction to crimes he should be above.

>>520278122
>Pascal's wager requires you believe in christianity
But it doesn't You simply live the Godly life regardless of your faith. The point is your life is still enriched and in the off chance it is all real you have a golden ticket.

>>520279368
I'm a rational mind, which means I cannot believe something without evidence of its existence. The best you can provide is philosophical wordplay and what amounts to gambits.

I cannot solve this problem: if god exists, I burn in hell forever. And you're not only okay with this, you think I deserve it. All because I asked 'how do you know for sure' and didn't accept your response was 'I just know'

So until you give me a reason to believe that isn't "but you'll burn for all eternity you fool", I don't have a reason to believe and never will. God's given me no chance at salvation and you know it

>>520279570
Just be a good person and let God worry about himself. Any God that punishes a good man is no just God.

>>520279452
The definition of a godly life is wholly faith in that god exists and to follow everything he told you to do. That's imprisonment.

>Your life is still enriched
Not if you're gay, or a woman, or black, or in a muslim society, or pretty much anything that doesn't mesh with being what christianity expects you to be in the first place. You're not enriched, you're traumatized. You think you're broken, you're taught you're broken, everyone around you thinks you're broken. I won't live my likely finite life with that sort of suffering weighing on me.

>>520279570
Until "I" do? Bitch I dont care about you, your propositions, or that wanky crybaby post. Do it for yourself. Or dont. Not my problem. None of that has anything to do with me.

And as a rational man with a faggoty excuse, really seems like you know how to solve your own problem here, and are refusing to do it. Funny enough, not my problem.

>>520265962
Now imagine being a Indian and born into Hindu family and you see more religion on internet and real life.

HOURLY REMINDER: there is no god and when you die it will be nothingness for eternity!

>>520279259
Let's use an analogy (already off to a horrible start lol, but wait it gets worse!)

You will never understand a meth addiction until you experience it. No amount of words will convey it to you. You have a chance of understanding it better, once you experience a different sort of addiction be it cocaine, adderall, alcohol, even nicotine or perhaps caffeine. The more you experience, the easier it is to understand the meth addiction.
Makes sense?
In this analogy, I've experienced things in the periphery, maybe crack idk here is where it obviously breaks down.
I'm not talking about heaven or the afterlife or whatever, just God here.

To the point about the afterlife, in my view, not that it bears significance to you, each and every religious tenet I grew up with, has an "obvious" benefit / detriment to human life. Don't steal, don't murder, don't lie, etc.
These are only "obvious" because we grew up in a culture that already embraced this religion (or a close enough one of the same branch, for this explanation all Christianity works).
India doesn't have a problem stealing or scamming each other, Africa has no problems killing each other for random bullshit, etc.
It's not as if even the early Romans had these values either; see the Colosseum, slave trade, etc.
As our society starts breaking away from these values, it is getting noticeably worse. Who thought sexual liberation was a good idea? Etc.

Our society is better, due to the mass adoption of these values, in my view.
If you want, you could make the argument that "Hell" comes from the human actions that defy these values, but that lends itself to too much of a metaphorical explanation whereas many people truly believe the afterlife. Shrug. So what, believing in it doesn't make anyone's life any worse so who cares.

>>520279857
>Bitch I don't care about you
Congrats, that's a sin. Have fun in hell dude

>>520266551
You have to be retard or glowie to continue engaging with a baiter or retard.

>>520266246
>Is rational order possible through irrational means?
>No
How do you know?

>>520279998
Not a real place

>>520279946
>when you die it will be nothingness for eternity!
Not that bad if you think about it

>>520280136
Exactly. It sounds based.

>>520265962
> I would have thought that once anyone gets to the age where they learn…
Why would you think that? Did you ever get out of you head and observe how people actually are?

I'm a really high iq female and I am devoted to following God not just in this life but in the next.
And OP can go fuck himself.

>>520280283
Take your meds dude

>>520279957
Did you just liken religion to getting addicted to meth...?

>each and every religious tenet I grew up with, has an "obvious" benefit / detriment to human life.
Those are only the ones you hear about because our society would have accepted those tenets anyway, as they were often already part of our societies before god in the first place. The contradictory are simply ignored, instead.
For example:
>1 Samuel 15:3
>Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
In modern society, we don't consider death of children to ever be okay, we don't even like to inflict suffering on animals at all.
There's plenty of sensibilities of modern society that they forbid, like sodomy and certain kinds of meat. Science has revealed these are perfectly safe, but religion continues to make it wrong without cause. That is unjust to me.

>>520280311
I have a 45 with some meds for you right here. How bout we do an experiment about the afterlife and you try to come back from the dead to report back?

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>>520265962
pretty easy: read the books, do not confirm to the narrative teached in the medias

>>520279259
Eternal conscious torment is unbiblical. When the soul perishes in Hell, that is that. You will simply cease to exist, there is no infinite torture.

>then logically I never had a chance

That is up God, it is not up to me or you. Perhaps 10 years from now you will experience Salvation and you will then realize the error of your previous ways.

It is all up to God and His plans for you.

>Why do you get Heaven?
Because God had mercy on me, knowing full well that I deserve Hell just like anyone else, I am Human after all.

>>520279366
>redemption and self growth do not require God
You are not redeemed, if you were redeemed then you would live forever, but as things stand now, the death of your soul awaits you. And yes, you have grown...grown in your evil nature & evil ways, you've become worse.

>>520280416
Whatever you say faggot stop pretending to be a woman. More meds.

>>520280408
Whatever you think about being just or unjust matters not to bronze age tribes that regularly killed and conquered each other rather viciously. You can't grasp the concept of war, invading armies, enslavement, and historicity of that time. You are living in a later time of global civilized society that Christianity helped to create.

Fucking loser

>>520278905
I understood your post perfectly, as a direct reply to me, you implied there was no other way (see >>520276855) for people to obtain improvement without the ethereal absolution of their debt.

In the larger context of the post, someone back there is saying these beliefs are actually positive and true using that redemption example.

I don't disagree with them being positive (in the imaginary world where religion only influences your self growth), but I also acknowledge it's the worldview of a simple minded nigger.

That being said, isn't it sad state of affaris that religion is the only thing we can do for niggers in terms of their improvement?

>>520280283
>High IQ female
Oxymoron

>>520280535
I'm not pretending and I put you down all ready under my boot, don't make me do it again.

>>520279842
>christianity
Doesn't have to be that religion. You can pick anyone you like. There are no victims only people that choose to be victims.

>>520280767
Just won this argument tho. Take your Copealot and relax.

>>520279395
>You're still left with a god giving a crap about something he shouldn't
Well I'm assuming you are talking about humans being the crap he shouldn't care about and yet does and to that I would agree with you and it's a question we will never be able to know this side of heaven. Personally I see no redeeming quality in myself to be saved for yet God himself says he loves us. I am not going to pretend to know why, all I can equate it to is cars. I have the money in my account to buy a new car, but I don't like new cars. Instead I drive a 98 Lincoln mark viii, I love the car despite me needing to sink thousands into it every year to keep it running and rust free. New cars are more reliable, more powerful, more fuel efficient. There is nothing redeeming about my lincoln that I should keep pouring money into it, in fact most people would tell me it's a waste yet, I love the car and choose to put in the effort to keep it despite it making more sense to just buy a new one.

>>520280834
What argument retard? Take meds.

>>520280923
You take meds. You're the angry uneducated one.

>>520268560
He's a dimwit, not a midwit, he's based

>>520265962
People are stupid and cowardly.

>>520280923
what meds are you currently taking?

>>520280982
>Angry uneducated one
Meant for >>520280283

>>520265962
>Some people rob themselves and others of pleasure and happiness for the whole lives, thinking they will be rewarded for their discomfort in "the next life."
And some atheists rob themselves of pleasure and happiness by learning that the universe is so incredibly enormous that nothing you can do, ever do, or ever will do, let alone be more than barely distinguishable from the sum total of all human achievement at any scale that matters all because the universe is most likely going to eventually become a cold dead void for all eternity. Knowing that and shuffling paper around for some fat cunt who beats his wife and still have everything go right for him is a torturous existence where you endlessly fight the desire to peel the cunt open knowing nothing they ever do to you could ever mean anything.

>>520281078
None. I'm not mentally broken like jew worshippers.

afaik they werent ever meant to be literal, that was purely an abrahamic thing.

>>520281165
but you are mentally broken, you don't have to lie about this.