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This made it the foremost target of Bolshevik revolution and subversion. Why did Bolshevik communist jews prioritize overthrowing Russia and subverting its government when most of them were related to or came directly from being well off hyper capitalists in the western nations? Because it was a project explicitly to destroy Russia as the foremost Orthodox Christian nation - both for geopolitical reasons and for spiritual reasons.

Despite undergoing a near century of religious genocide, persecution, and banning, Orthodox Christianity stayed alive in Russia and now today they are one of the most devoutly religious Christian countries despite the long period of state atheist communism.

All of this to say - I believe Orthodox Christian governance and power is viewed as the foremost danger and threat to the Zionist world order. It was one of the most artistically and culturally powerful forces the world has ever seen, was rapidly beginning to outcompete a Europe rapidly turning agnostic/secular under the command of a Zionist banking elite, and had to be taken down and rebuilt - specifically via tearing the religious root out. And yet still the gates of hell did not prevail. Orthodox Christians remain the most anti Zionist sect by far and are totally untouched and unwarned by the post WWII philosemitic propaganda that Catholics and Protestants have largely embraced, leading to the current ZOG state of affairs. White people in the west, kept veiled to the nature of Orthodox Christianity and its history, have been left with either ceding to subversive Zionist overlords or going the opposite direction and becoming empty/spiritually dead atheists and coping pagans. This is by design and it all starts with the Zionist banking power in the UK working to fund the Bolshevik revolution in Russia.

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>>521150519
>>521150430
Tsarist Russia was a backwards medieval shithole and Tsar Nicholas II deserved everything he had coming to him.

>>521150586
Just your average commie cope

>>521150586
Bolshevik propaganda, simple as.

>Russia had a massive industrial boom from 1880–1914
>Massive railway expansion (including the Trans-Siberian)
>Rapid factory growth
>Major gains in literacy and education
>Scientific institutions improving dramatically
>went from a semi-feudal empire in 1861 to one of the fastest-growing industrial powers in the world by 1900–1914
>by 1913 was the 4th–5th largest industrial economy on earth.
>GDP growth was above that of Britain, France, and Germany over the previous decades.
>Population growth and resource wealth meant Russia’s trajectory pointed toward great-power dominance if WWI and the revolutions hadn’t derailed it

>>521151111
Tsar Nicholas II only pushed for industrialization because of Bolshevik pressure and he also failed at it

>>521150519
>I believe Orthodox Christian governance and power is viewed as the foremost danger and threat to the Zionist world order.
It is not a coincidence that eastern European NATO countries have been designating their local Orthodox Churches or those of their neighboring countries as terrorist organizations, e.g. Latvia and Bulgaria

>>521151176
>bolshevik pressure

Industrialization began decades before Bolsheviks formally existed and before Nicholas II was Tsar. It did not fail at all either. Literacy more than doubled under him and railways tripled in coverage, and they were in top 5 largest economies globally.

>>521151609
Yes. Particularly notable how much jewlinsky seems to despise Orthodox Christianity and wants to subvert its presence in Ukraine while freely promoting pagan LARPers like Azov.

>>521150430
>le Christianity and Orthodoxy especially are so good yet their God that is supposed to protect them doesn't do that
>and now today they are one of the most devoutly religious Christian countries despite the long period of state atheist communism
Only an amerimutt can write something so informed. Please do tell me about the ethics behind dedovschina, for an example and this is just the surface.

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>>521152261
Do not fall for glownigger divide & conquer tactics.

Christianity is the definition of "right wing" political ideology:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum#Origins_in_the_French_Revolution

Christianity has always been a racist religion:
>"Oh, race of Franks, race from across the mountains, race chosen and beloved [...]"
>"the kingdom of the Persians, an accursed race, a race utterly alienated from God [...]"
- https://www2.cbn.com/article/church/pope-urban-iis-speech-calling-first-crusade

The racist and anti-semitic Confederates have always been Christian.
The National Socialists used the Celtic cross and gave out iron cross medals for bravery. The white term for "swastika" is hakenkreuz, meaning hooked cross.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakenkreuzbanner

Here's a growing list of Christian political commentators who are racist and anti-semitic:
- https://rentry.org/Deus_Vult
Feel free to reply to this post with others.

Educate boomers irl. If you don't preach to them, the anti-Christian kikes will:
- https://news.antiwar.com/2025/10/06/israel-to-spend-up-to-4-1-million-in-propaganda-campaign-targeting-american-christians/
israeli nationalism ("zionism") is a heresy:
- https://youtu.be/GKlT-hhZXoM&t=658s
- https://youtu.be/odNoExd8a5U
- https://youtu.be/rp92-3aBL-A
The "holocaust" (burnt offering) is a lie made up by kikes, both soviet and freemason:
- https://rumble.com/c/ScriptureandTraditionFrJM/videos
Boycott israeli products:
- https://bdsmovement.net

Common glownigger talking points:
>"jesus is a kike"
The word "kike" comes from "kikel", which means circle. The kikes hate the cross so much, they would sign documents with a circle, hence the nickname.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_and_minus_signs#Alternative_plus_sign
>"off topic"
Reminder the pope is the monarch of a country. In fact in many white nations there is no separation between church and state.

>>521152520
>divide & conquer tactics
>meanwhile
>>Conversion to Christianity met great opposition among the Bulgarian elite. Some refused to become Christians while others apostatized after baptism and started a rebellion against Boris for forcing them to be baptized. Some people did not object necessarily to the Christian religion but to the fact that it was brought by foreign priests, which, as a result, established external foreign policy. By breaking the power of the old cults, Boris reduced the influence of the boyars, who resisted the khan's authority. In the summer of 865 a group of Bulgar aristocrats (boyars) started an open revolt. Boris ruthlessly suppressed it and executed 52 boyars together with their entire families. Thus the Christianization continued. In 889 Boris abdicated the throne and became a monk. His son and successor Vladimir attempted a pagan reaction, which brought Boris out of retirement in 893. Vladimir was defeated and Boris had him blinded, his wife shaved and sent to a monastery. Boris gathered the Council of Preslav placing his third son, Tsar Simeon I of Bulgaria, on the throne, threatening him with the same fate if he too apostatized.

>>521152261
>>le Christianity and Orthodoxy especially are so good yet their God that is supposed to protect them doesn't do that

Intentional retardation? Christianity was founded on martyrdom, there has never been a guarantee that God would shield individuals from suffering, quite the opposite. However there is a guarantee that the Church would still survive and outlast any hardship, which is true. It survived through and outlasted the communist government despite mass genocide and being made illegal, the communists even eventually had to submit and allow the church again because it had too much cultural power and resonance with the people in spite of what they did to eliminate it.

>Soviet derived tradition of military hazing is le bad, not so Christian now huh?

Man is fallen and is always tempted towards evil, again a fundamental teaching and irrelevant to anything serious. This again is a product of its period of communist subversion which wrought much corruption. The point is that this corruption was not able to defeat the Christian.

>>521152716
>Christianity was founded on martyrdom
So then what is the point of your thread? And you yourself admit that following it means that you will be replaced, that's pure evil.
>Church would still survive and outlast any hardship, which is true
Like Hagia Sophia?
>it had too much cultural power
It's a pure LARP, they can't even wait until marriage but they totally believe bro, I'm totally trusting you.
>communist subversion
I don't know man, that's specific to just lower quality countries. You don't hear about these things in Estonia even though they were part of the soviet union too.

>>521152639
That’s not divide and conquer, that’s straight up conquering. Which is what the Truth does to falsehood. Why do you view your defeated ancestors from 1200 years ago more highly than your victorious ancestors from the past 1200 years?

>>521153068
>victorious
>he doesn't know

>>521150586
Based and true.

>>521152961
>And you yourself admit that following it means that you will be replaced, that's pure evil.

Quite the opposite. The point is that it eventually becomes more powerful via martyrdom. Any attempts to extinguish it paradoxically cause it to come back to life and regain strength once again. Ie divine will; it defies logic yet is perfectly in line with the promise of Christ. The Church is not a literal church building dummy, it’s the body of Christ as a whole eg clergy and followers. Russia suffered intense and grave moral decay from communism along with all the other countries it fell under but it can be and is being healed through spiritual revival.

>>521153160
What don’t I know? Bulgaria is one of the most Christian nations in Europe today and has been for over 1100 years. Do you despise your own country and countrymen or something?

>>521153245
>Quite the opposite
>because I say so
>is being healed through spiritual revival
By going to meaningless wars and being replaced by mudslimes and other subhumans? It's called the frozen Africa for a reason.

>>521153319
Following your logic the mudslime religion is even better because they enslaved the Orthodox countries for many centuries. Or communism too. Meanwhile you were on their side, traitor.

>>521150586
hey schlomi

>>521150430
>>521150519
the vatican had to destroy orthodox russia and its ruler with communism

>>521153346
I’m not defending the political actions of the post Soviet Russian government if that’s what you think this is. I’m defending that it was subverted and targeted specifically for its Christian roots and morality which turned it into one of the most powerful cultural and artistic giants the world has ever known and that even today Zionists target the religion specifically to neuter it because of its relative immunity from ZOG propaganda

>>521153450
Incorrect. If a country stays majority Christian even as it is taken over politically by Muslims or communists or otherwise, and it outlasts them, it shows why Christianity is true. If pagans were right and had a point at all they would have maintained a majority pagan country even as their leaders became Christian in the 800s but this did not happen, obviously. Why couldn’t the Ottomans turn Bulgaria majority Muslim when they took over politically if Christians were able to make Bulgaria highly Christian?

>>521150430
Russia got jewed because it's faggot christian church wouldn't exterminate the bastards when it had the chance (which was a span of over 500 years). Instead it tried to turn them into white people by giving them farmland in the ukraine. If Christianity placed any value on race, then this would not have happened.

>Often the history of Russia is presented in such a way that it was a backwards peasant state
because it was. not that you would expect much else from a country that spanned 7000 miles with only twice the population of Germany.

>Russia was in fact well on its way to becoming one of the dominant juggernauts of Europe
it was catching up to western europe
also:
>-
>-
you're not fooling anyone, gptnigger

They had a giga amount of ex-serfs still living in shit + a mostly Germanic elite. Now all artistocrats are gone and replaced with jewish oligarchs and slavshits that fell upwards. Also commies targeted every country but simply failed in instigating revolutions.

>>521154199
>I’m not defending the political actions
Why? Isn't it blessed by the Church? Do you even know how your religion works?!?
>its Christian roots and morality which turned it into one of the most powerful cultural and artistic giants
That's beyond stupid. Neither musically, visually or literally can they compete with anything from western Europe.
>and it outlasts them
Like I said already, they don't even have the impulse control to wait until marriage. And wiggerism is very present in these countries so it's not just fornication either. This is not Christianity.
>couldn’t
They paid higher taxes. I don't think you even comprehend the topic.

>>521154807
Name some of your favorite authors and music from Western Europe, just curious.

>isn’t it blessed by your church
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and render unto God what is God’s. Under the Byzantine Empire you could argue there was more of a connection between political and theological goals but the Church is an inherently separate thing from political/worldly entities.

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>>521152716
>there has never been a guarantee that God would shield individuals from suffering, quite the opposite. However there is a guarantee that the Church would still survive and outlast any hardship

LOL WOW
What a deal
>break your back all day in the fields for your entire existence in crummy russia
>your reward is to get exterminated by jews
>but at least the faggot priest who has never done a day's work in his life is okay


can you yet see why the national socialist swastika religion which rounds the jews up and expels them is the appealing alternative to christianity for white people, and why ALL CHURCHES OPPOSE HITLER to this day?

>>521155151
Goether, Rilke, Giovanni Gabriell and Wagner, for an example.
>is an inherently separate thing
Yet is known to be part of the KGB, how strange.

Russia before commies is the "old america" they show in hollywood and that never really happened in USA.

>>521155249
>can you yet see why the national socialist swastika religion which rounds the jews up and expels them

“National socialist swastika religion” doesn’t ring a bell. Most Nazis were Christian, including the leadership, until the midst of the war when they utterly failed after being duped into starting the war, killing millions of white men and directly helping to create the modern state of Israel while taking jew banker money. Hitler wasn’t a particularly bad guy but he was a patsy and their movement ultimately just accelerated white extinction and jewish power. Expelling jews was a practice in Christian Europe for 1000+ years, not sure why you’re acting like it was unique to them.

>>521151176
Russians invented modern medicine with surgery narcosis, sterile tools for anatomy-based surgery, general sterility of the medical service process, gypsym casts and wide application of medical nurses in the process

all to replace retarded medici's humorism-based medicine, that lasted in wectern europe for many centuries, with bloodletting officially used till the 1970s

name specific actions of bolsheviks, that made us do it

say how much you've gone without Russian medicine in your life

>>521155778
>hitler was a patsy
next time, just write "i am a shitskin groyper" in the name field before you post

>>521155654
Fair enough. I think Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky are easily the greatest authors ever, and many critics at their time in Western Europe said similar things in terms of the greatness of their minds and their philosophical backgrounds. I am a big fan of Goethe as well but don’t think anything he wrote quite stands up to Brothers Karamazov, for example. Stravinsky/Tchaikovsky et al certainly stand up to the greats of the west musically and critics of the time similarly agreed, though I admit I’m not as much a musical aficionado as I am into literature.

>>521156640
He was. I don’t think Hitler was a villain and I think he had good intentions but he was used to destroy Europe according to long standing plans and it’s literally what happened. Not a moral condemnation of him, but certainly a tactical one.

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Im really tired of you jew worshippers shitting up the board. Fuck off.

>>521156780
Why is rape or an African starving bad? It seems like you think if God was good he would stop this right? But if you mock the idea of God where do you get the idea that these things are bad? What if the rapist’s feelings are better? Why stop the rapist from being allowed to rape? I might say in my view that’s more evil.

>>521156544
Under the Tsarist system ironically Russia also introduced the first modern implementation of universal state healthcare.

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>>521157721
>Your toddler is getting acute leukemia. Because I love you! don't you fucking dare refuse my love!

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>>521150430
>We alone are the Government of Planet Earth. Which comes as no surprise. There’s no doubt about it. We are uncontestable and recognized by everyone.

>We have rolled up your three years of war into a single conch shell, a terrifying trumpet, and now we sing and shout and we roar out the terrible truth: the Government of Planet Earth already exists. We are it.

>We alone, standing on the rock of ourselves and our names, with the ocean of your evil eyes beating all around us, have dared to call ourselves the Government of Planet Earth. We are it.

>What insolence, people will say, but we will smile upon them like gods.

>-- Velimir Khlebnikov, 1917

>>521158043
>I want nothing bad to happen ever

You want to be a slave, very hylic mindset. Goodness and love does not and cannot exist without the reality of darkness and pain. Free thyself

>>521156780
>God: dont do the thing or you are cut off
>human: does that thing
>why things bad :(
repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand

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>>521158581
>I didn't really create them evil, they just turned out this way hehe, thats right goyim, don't you fucking dare question my good intentions!

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>>521158853
>You did a thing, that is not in accordance with my contradictory book of jew nonsense, I guess that means you hate me and you refuse my love, therefore you deserve to be punished forever by demons I created, out of love!

>>521159058
What do you think love is?

>>521159058
>Im not accountable for my actions
are you a woman?

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BRICS THREAD:

Orthodoxy is controlled by the former KGB who are all dirty billionaire commie priests blessing the church's persecutors, like Stalin who only brought it back to compete with National Socialism in a heretical Communist psy-op form.

All Orthotrads are Communist shills just like this fake catholic faggot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CGrrA7-qb4

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>>521159120
>That mother of three will develop a case of sclerosis multiplex refractory to treatment. If you get upset, you are literaly not worthy of heaven - that is forever being in the clouds and seeing jewish hymns to my name!

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>>521159240

>>521156723
>he was used to destroy Europe according to long standing plans
>Hannibal was a patsy who was used to destroy Carthage or >Napoleon was a patsy who was used to destroy France
do you understand how retarded you sound?

the plan to destroy Germany was to turn it communist and murder the gentleman and scholarly class as well as the free farmers like what happened in Russia, Ukraine, and Poland. It wasn't first to have the jew revolutionaries exterminated by the freikorps and then to lose total control of the country when an upstart dictator created his own currency

>>521159120
>love is throwing a bitch fit and flooding the entire world
do you understand how UTTERLY retarded you sound?
why not just be honest and call it hate? god fucked up the first time and hated what his creation had become, so he formatted drive C and tried again

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>>521159211
>This man who was a firefighter for 15 years will now sudenly develop a stroke, go blind and be paralysed oh his left side. Heh, I guess he just has to trust the plan if he wants to evade the magic lava.

>>521159326
if the Orthodox church is so pro-White, why does it condone each side murdering to the last pyotr while muslims and other flavors of shitskin swarm in their cities?
Because it seems to me like they just stood aside while this jew-fomented war killed two million young white men.

>>521159385
>sin leads to death
yeah no shit, its almost as God has warned adam about that.

>>521159940
stupid faggot. The book of yob is literaly how god tortures a righteous person for the lulz. And how did the toddler sin to die from cancer? your silly jew religion is gay and retarded, go get molested by a priest you dumbass

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>>521159940
>sin leads to death
trump the noble jewloving hookerfucking salesman deserved to live while corey comparatore the sinful selfless fireman deserved to get shot in the head
because god loved corey

>>521160200
satan tortured job, not God. and he received everything back double the amount. also he had a direct audience with God.
>And how did the toddler sin to die from cancer?
because his parents gave him into the hands of satan magicians (doctors) who pumped him full of mystery juices right after birth?

>>521160206
satan rules the world. also stop falling for obvious psyops.
if you still fall for false flags after 9/11 I feel bad for you.

>>521160473
>because his parents gave him into the hands of satan magicians (doctors) who pumped him full of mystery juices right after birth?
kill yourself. Keep up the good work exposing to people how revolting your jewish death cult is.

>satan rules the world
yeah, hes the alter ego of the ever loving volcano demon yahwe

>>521160473
>satan rules the world.
sounds like cope for your shit god being fake

>also stop falling for obvious psyops.
corey comparatore got shot in the head and died.

>>521160591
how old are you? grow up.

The first world war was a giant human sacrifice and used to overthrow the Christian monarchies.
The sooner you realize this, the better.

>>521157881
not tsarist though, c(eas)ardom ended in 16 century
it was imperial rule

>>521160747
>corey comparatore got shot in the head and died.
the entire thing was a staged event you retard. they are all insiders.

>>521160757
old enough to see how your jew shit is gay. Christianity worldwide is declining. Even the ever reproducing niggers cant save you from irrelevance.

>>521159603
judah gets the rope-40000

>>521160841
worshiping jews and conspiratardism goes like a hand and glove

>>521150430
No, and the fact you think it is is hilarious. Population was their one strength and the moment they started doing war they lost that. Every ruler they had knew they were backwards in terms of governance, socially and technologically. They never produced serious art beyond a handful of scattered authors. Their last Tzar started to turn it around a bit but it'd never be a massive revolution. He just didn't have the time for even small improvements.

Also I think this is an AI post.

>>521150430
>>521150519

Interesting post OP.
You can really feel the cultural tension in the Major 19th Century Russian works. All Men Of Letters felt that Russia was going through a breaking point and there left a huge void once serfdom was eliminated. You get the sense that Religion lost its spiritual element in common folk and was more a tradition, with icons and feast days. Nihilistic youth did not get any value from this and idolized the West. Dostoevsky went bezerk with this idea and really encapsulated well especially in Notes From Underground, Demons & BK.
Tolstoy, towards the end of his life really incorporated his believes fully in his life and I feel his most interesting work is the later period of his life.

>>521160878
>>521160917
I think you dont understand that everyone is raised up in the second coming.
all are judged by their deeds. the wicked with wrath the righteous with love.
see to it that you dont fall into the wicked category. the child that died of cancer and the fireman with a stroke surely dont want to see you perish.

>>521150430
communist revolution was just remongolization after peter the great tried to westernize them

>>521150430
Russia was getting there before the communists took over. Stalin’s boast about progressing from wooden ploughs to atomic bombs could have occurred within millions of deaths and the destruction of culture. There was a politician who was assassinated with a huge bomb (can’t remember his name); if he’d lived, things could have been different.

>>521161146
no, I dont understand jewish bullshit, you sociopathic jew pawn

>>521161401
the only one here who is a raging sociopath is you.
ask God for peace and wisdom.

>>521150430
Nah, it was always a nation of slaves with eternal obsession of becoming a Third Rome. Every ideology, be it enlightenment, Christianity, communism, or whatever existed just to fool naive westerners

>>521150430
Russia became something when america gave it all their technology for free in the 2nd world war. This is inconvenient for both mutts and russoids. They don't want to talk about this.

>>521150586
Post nose

>>521150430
In reality communists destroyed Russia and its a miracle a real state even survived in the aftermath, their arguments are but look at how much steel they produced in 1956 tier stupidity, communists can argue that they saved it from the nazi war machine but they for some reason assume that there would have been a war against Russia without them aswel which I'm not convinced of, if the white guards had won the civil war in Russia they would have been not too far off from national socialists ideologically, white guards won in Finland during the same civil war period and they got along with Hitler just fine

Communists cause insane amount of suffering and problems and then when there are still survivors in the end they for some reason think of this as a great achievement

>>521160200
>missing the point of Job

It’s amazing how you fail to understand an incredibly straightforward and basic story, then again considering your teenage Redditor tier arguments, its totally unsurprising.

>you do not deserve and are not owed anything
>your existence is entirely owed to God who created all of reality as you know it
>you, by every logical and ethical metric, have no right to demand anything whatsoever from God, you are not responsible for reality or your own existence and do not have a right to bitch if you personally don’t like how it is in the moment
>yet despite this if you return love to God that he granted you by letting you experience the good of the world and of life, He will always make things right
>even from a secular point of view there is an obvious basic lesson in that persevering through hardship will always lead you to better times again

Such a beautiful story, I honestly can’t believe so many simpletons don’t understand it.

>>521162368
Reading the Redux version of the story is simple, but the entire Book of Job is pretty tedious. It does amount to basically what you say. I will add that is also reminds us that our conscience and logic are limited and we do not know God's plan and will never have the capacity to do so,

Russia is forced to fully industrialize within the context of Barbarossa and the specter of national annihilation. Russia is still a Gogolian Dead Souls-like society into the 1930s. Russia only survives 1941 with US and Britain dropping unlimited supplies, technology, etc. like the West is that 1970s show Time Tunnel, going into the past to give cavemen the wheel. Russian only advances in the 40s and 50s due to all the Nazi, European scientists and engineers they capture. Germany double-fucked the west. A. Funding Lenin and the Bolsheviks to overthrow the czar in ww1, B. Gifting Russia a modern industrial society and atom bomb.

The United States and Russia both pretty much piss out in the 70s when the rest of the world has finally rebuilt their industries and can compete again. Russian collapses because they've run out of Nazi scientists and engineers by the late-80s. And to this day there's been no innovation or advanced industrialization. They've completely missed out on the robotics revolution of the last 40 years.

Pushkin is king.

19th century russian literature sucks ass. It was pushed by jews and gays and leftists who wanted to bring glory to the soviet union and elevate russian culture. It's kind of like how gays and leftists do the opposite thing now.

I haven't read a single book like anna karenina or whatever.

Russians are a mutt horde who genocided and assimilated people like the circassians and conquered the turkic people.

Russians actually tgink they are white but they aren't. They're only white in comparison to the vibrant islamic and other shitskins who flooded the west.

The russian wooden churches are neat

>>521150586
truthnuke that nobody wants to hear
everything good in Russia was built by German immigrants anyways

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>>521150430

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Peter the great called Germanics to westernize Russia and still the german industry mogged the russian industry in WW l. Russia is cursed by GOD

>>521162368
>>you do not deserve and are not owed anything
Anyone would agree that a child is to be provided with love and care.
If God is supposed to be our heavenly father, then why does he not provide for us?
Why does he not offer us shelter?
Why does he allow unborn children to perish?

Or are you saying that God isn't our father?
We might not be begotten, we are created, but he is still "pater noster qui es in caelis," no?

Human morals say that a parent must provide for their children.
If God's morals don't say that, then I don't want to follow that God.
If God's morals say that, why doesn't he do that?
If Jesus is such a benevolent being, why doesn't he save me?
If he loves me even though I ridicule him, why doesn't he save me?
I'm not following some empty promises.

>>521163042
>19th century russian literature sucks ass.
>I haven't read a single book

'Murica

>521150430
lmao ivan, when are you going to stop posting propaganda and go fight against Ukraine so you can die from a drone strike?

>>521165318
>>521165318
The analogy to a parent is limited by necessity. A human parent prevents material suffering because the child has no capacity to endure or grow through it and that is the limit of how they can express love; God, however, allows human freedom and human history to unfold because His goal is not material comfort but spiritual union with Him, which often comes through struggle, not in spite of it. The Father provides what is necessary for salvation ie meaning, repentance, moral strength, eternal life. He does not provide what fallen human nature imagines would make life easier. What is promised is that suffering itself will be transformed into a path toward life rather than destruction.

You have to understand that physical death being a permanent end of the soul is itself an illusion. The idea that death is a punishment is false - it’s actually a gift, as it provides a chance to escape from suffering and sin that we do not experience it for eternity, only temporally as a means to grow.

Love does not mean preventing all pain. Even if we go back to the human parent analogy, a parent who truly loves their child will discipline them and often cause them to suffer in the short term for the sake of making them a better and more competent person in the long term. Christ Himself suffers, dies, and descends into death; the entire message of the Incarnation is that God joins us inside our suffering rather than immunizing us from it. Unborn children, the poor, the sick; these tragedies are not signs of God’s absence, but of a world broken by sin and human freedom. God does not force salvation or rescue on anyone because forced love is not love; He heals those who seek Him, and He draws near where the heart opens even slightly. To demand that God “prove Himself” by overriding freedom, removing suffering, or granting earthly security is to ask for a world where humans are automatons, no different than rocks or trees without agency.

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>>521150430
>and also easily the most devout and spiritual Christian nation on the continent in the 19th century.
Eh bold claim to make. Do you have any statistics to back that up or is it just a baseless assertion? For example I don’t have any numbers to the contrary, but by the 19th century Russia had become a caeseropapist state. The Russian church was just an appendage of the state with blatant secular control. Indeed Russian literary giants like Leo Tolstoy were actively opposed to the Russian “orthodox” church.
Basically everything else you say kinda relies on this flawed and biased framing so unless you can actually present something to substantiate it then every other point doesn’t need to be addressed.

>>521166050
Being aborted isn't much of a struggle.
Where is your God now, why doesn't he save the billions of children killed before birth?
>death is a gift
Alright. Go kill yourself then. But isn't that supposed to be a sin?
Judas went to hell for suicide.
>automatons
I'll take being mindless over suffering, thank you very much.

>>521151609
>>521151892
>eastern European NATO countries have been designating their local Orthodox Churches as terrorist organizations
Is that actually true? Do you have any sauce for this? Or are they just designated Russian churches as foreign agents? Because that’s something that very much has a basis in reality. The Russian “church” was a tool of the state during the communist regime and its carried over into the post-soviet era.

>>521166061
>>521166061
It’s commonly accepted among scholarship. Greg Freeze is the most notable recent author who covered the Orthodox clergy in Russia pre Europe and cited that around 95% of the population identified as Orthodox Christian in the late 90s and there were 10s of thousands of parishes and consistently practicing the religion was essentially universal.

Geoffrey Hosking is another modern source that backs this up, having considered pre Bolshevik Russia to be far more religious than France or Germany as examples at the time.

Sources in the 19th century at self are also notable for making the same observation - eg the Marquis de Custine said faith was more intense in Russia than anywhere else in Europe. George Kennan wrote in the 1870s that the Russian people were “profoundly more religious” than the West.

>>521150519
>Despite undergoing a near century of religious genocide, persecution, and banning, Orthodox Christianity stayed alive in Russia and now today they are one of the most devoutly religious Christian countries despite the long period of state atheist communism
The Orthodox Church literally owned the lands and the serfs. When Alexander II abolished serfdom, there were priests (churchmen) who dissuaded the abolition of slavery. The Church was completely unfazed by the fact that people (including children) were sold in newspapers and could be exchanged for dogs.

>>521154058
>russian “orthodox” go commie
>THIS IS THE VATICANS FAULT!
Lol, lmao even.

>>521159603
>if the Orthodox church is so pro-White
It’s not. The Russian “orthodox” church is an asset of the Russian state which is very much a multi-racial empire. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Russia, meanwhile church attendance in Russia is on par with Australia or France.

>>521166308
>why doesn’t God save everyone from every bad action of someone else

Because he created consciousness which gives humans freedom and by necessity requires that they can choose their own actions and have their own will that isn’t determined by his interference.

>killing yourself is a sin

Correct. Killing others is a sin as well. You do not have the right to choose when you or anyone else dies, which is why it’s a sin. It is pride because you are putting yourself on the level of God to determine which lives continue and which lives end. This is not your place, but you have the option to do it if you want to disobey His will. This is called evil.

>I’ll take being mindless over suffering

Unfortunately that’s not available to you as a conscious human being, you did not create your own existence, and you do not have the right to deny the value of having consciousness and freedom because there are many who are grateful for it. Who are you to say it is evil that I and all other humans have been given freedom and a mind to understand the world? Sounds quite domineering and prideful and ungrateful as well

>>521151176
Retarded cope, the issue was borderline feudalism, Russia was already industrialising since the 1800s in the White parts.

>>521166439
>It’s commonly accepted among scholarship
>Just trust me bro.
No

>Greg Freeze
Who? Sauce, or ignored.

>Orthodox clergy in Russia pre Europe
What does that mean? What’s pre-europe?
>cited that around 95% of the population identified as Orthodox Christian in the late 90s
1890s? I would hope so. That wouldn’t be unique or good stats for the time. That would be on par, if not behind, the rest of Europe for the period. Australia in the 1940s was around 90% Christian.
If you mean the 1990s I am gonna X to doubt because that means that religion must have been nuked with the fall of the Soviets, which would ruin your original hypothesis.

>having considered pre Bolshevik Russia to be far more religious than France or Germany as examples at the time.
Sauce? How so? You aren’t making a case you are just asserting stuff.

Bump for interesting thread

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This ALL stems at the root of the great schism. All of it. I came to a similar realization years ago. Allow me to explain:

>Eastern Christians and their interpretation of Church tradition starts to conflict with the West
So how do we know which is "correct?"
>Eastern Christianity has a card up their sleeve
>The Eastern Roman Emperor
>The Roman Emperor was understood to have a level of authority within ecumnical councils of the Church
>The Western half of the Empire fell with the invasion of the German tribes, but the East survived
>This is a thorn in the side of Popes leading up to the great schism. How can you have total supreme authority when you have to rely on an Eastern Emperor to ratify your councils?
>A solution!
>The Pope crowns a "Holy Roman Emperor"
>The East takes this as an insult, not only does the Pope believe he has the authority to crown a Roman Emperor, but a German? A barbarian? Perish at the thought!

So the great schism takes place. The Pope, now with the authority of his own "Roman" Emperor at his back, declares the east anathema, and vice versa.
>uhhh why does this matter?

It matters for whats about to take place. The crusades.

>The Eastern Romans suffer defeats at the hands of Muslims for hundreds of years. The Abbasyids are no longer a problem, now the issue is the islamified Seljuk Turks
>They raid a town on your border, by the time you round up men and march out to respond, they're long gone
>this happens again and again while they take little bite sized pieces out of the empire, thats slowly making it's way across anatolia and towards the Bosphorus strait. Towards Constantinople.
>The East begs for help from the Pope, the Pope now fully attained his superiority over the east, launches a few crusades

Here is the most important one for our story, the 4th crusade
>Catholics in the west decide, instead of fighting muslims, of which is a grind for any amount of land, why don't we sack the weakened Constantinople?

Cont.

>>521166795
A fetus being aborted doesn't have any choice or agency.
Why doesn't God protect those who cannot protect themselves?
You still fail to answer.
It's even funnier because there's a bible verse in which Jesus says that God provides for all, especially his children - which he obviously doesn't.
Birds have been known to starve. And unborn children continue to be murdered by demons. I conclude God lying.
>you do not have the right to deny the value of consciousness
Yes, I do.
I can think for myself because I have free will. And I will continue to use this free will to reject God.
A God who fails to protect the weakest of the weak is not worth following.
>ungrateful
Yes. I didn't ask to exist. I don't want to exist, at least not in this form.
Why should I be grateful for being born, just to suffer in this cruel world?
Fuck that. I hate that. I hate God. I will continue to hate God.

>>521167060
Yes 1890s, my mistake for not clarifying.

>sauce

I’ve given you multiple direct sources, look them up yourself. It’s a 2000 character limit and I’m not going to kid myself and pretend from your tone that you’re legitimately going to read anything long winded or go through provided links if you can’t even copy paste the names of historians into google. You could also search the information yourself.

Also, religiosity was much lower in Europe in the 19th century than you believe. Anti clericalism in France for example meant that only around 60% of French identified as Christian in the late 19th century. Ditto for the Netherlands. Germany, Britain, Australia, and the US were closest but still more like 85-90% and had less attendance and actual practicers

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>>521167261
>The Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, in fear of the Eastern Church completely crumbling, annoints the bishop of Moscovy to Metropolitan, seeing the Kievan Rus as the only solid Orthodox military power left
>The Eastern Romans survived though, regained some of their land, but they never recovered
>in the middle 1400s, Constantinople finally falls to Mehmed II, using his newfound cannons to blow Constantinople's walls to pieces
>The Ecumenical Patriarch finally annoints the Metropolitan of Moscow to Patriarch of all the Rus', shifting the churches power to Russia

Now, why does any of this matter?

It matters because this ingrained hatred for the east, especially Russia, that even now the secular world has inherited from the Catholic Church, without even realizing it.

>Eastern Romans? No no they were Byzantines! The Roman Empire fell with the Germanic invasions! They are just pretenders.
>Russia? A backwards land filled with archaic pagan influences and dirty backwards people! They copied Europeans!

This even extends to the world inherited the jewish bolshevik interpretation of the Romanovs
>They were evil and anti semitic and Rasputin was a degenerate sex addict to fucked the queen!

The final red pill on inherited kikel communist lies of Russia before the revolution is realizing Rasputin was actually a good guy, and all the claims about him being in some weird heretical sect and being a sex addict are so plainly stereotypical jewish lies that get repeated about every other historical person jews have a bone to pick with. I invite any /pol/tard with these misconceptions about Russia to put their beliefs to the test.


ALL of this anti-Russian shit is inherited seething over a disagreement about the Church. It's so woven into our psyche you'll have atheists repeating the same dogshit nonsense about Russia. The Russians are good people, pretty much their entire existence they've been on the outside looking in at Europe and european identity.

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>>521150430
>Orthodox Russia was still extremely religious, focused around a Christian worldview and philosophy first and foremost.
BUT THEN...
They did like we are doing and got all sophisticated and bloated and thought nothing could possibly ever go wrong.

Then, the Soviet Union happened.
Churchianity doth not Christianity make.

>>521167436
>The Roman Empire fell with the Germanic invasions!
Actually, we are the Romans. Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation and all that.

>>521167436
Putin even says as much in his long diatribe when Tucker interviewed him. As long as he can remember, and as far back as you go in history, Russians have always been excluded. On the outside looking in. No shit they're resentful about it, I'd be resentful about it.

Putin said after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and after his election, he basically came crawing on his knees asking for help from the West. Russia was gripped by poverty and mob violence. What did the west do? They laughed and said the only Russia they seek is a world where it doesn't exist anymore.

All of this, these proxy wars, this arms race, everything is because the way we treat, and have treated the Russians. It's completely unfair.

>>521166795
>that they can choose their own actions and have their own will that isn’t determined by his interference.
Huh? The bible is filled with stories about God's interference. So much so he ended up sending himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself lol

>Killing others is a sin as well
You mean murder? There's a difference

>>521167354
> Why doesn't God protect those who cannot protect themselves?

I’ve answered this multiple times. Human consciousness requires that humans have their own will and can commit actions that God does not approve of. If he prevented any actions that humans could take to ever harm someone we would not have an actual consciousness or freedom of choice.

Fetuses/babies are considered innocent and pure. Their deaths are tragic because they are ripped away from being able to experience life on Earth with family and loved ones, but death is an illusion; their souls are eternal and will be glorified by God because of their innocence. The people who kill them through abortion or otherwise are using their gift of freedom to commit evil actions; they sin and thus without true repentance and complete reorientation of their life are doomed to suffer forever in eternity because they set their will against God and will never be satisfied in eternity with Him.

>yes I do
>I can think for myself because I have free will. And I will continue to use this free will to reject God

You can do so. It is a genuine shame though. You are clearly a suffering person who has experienced cruelty and has lashed out against the world; this is understandable but not excusable. Hopefully you can give up your pride and right yourself.

Whatever you think is “worth following” doesn’t mean anything. You’re a meat sack given life by the grace of God and He is the ultimate arbiter of all existence and reality. Your personal wants and whims are irrelevant; you can choose to follow them but they ultimately won’t lead you anywhere because existence isn’t determined by them.

>>521150430
I don't know about you but I'm angling for fern

>>521111111

>>521167761
God interferes as an external agent, He does not take over anyone’s mind and possess them to commit certain actions or force them to do anything is the point.

>there’s a difference

The root of all sin is pride. Suicide and murder are both actions of pride as well as all other evil.

>>521167873
>You’re a meat sack given life by the grace of God and He is the ultimate arbiter of all existence and reality. Your personal wants and whims are irrelevant; you can choose to follow them but they ultimately won’t lead you anywhere because existence isn’t determined by them.
Which seems in contradiction to
>>521166795
>Because he created consciousness which gives humans freedom and by necessity requires that they can choose their own actions and have their own will that isn’t determined by his interference.
You make your God sound.like a bitter ex who tells you that you can't do.better than them and you'll regret leaving, lol

>>521167436
Good post, I agree overall. Thanks anon

>>521168017
>He does not take over anyone’s mind
He literally did with the Pharoah
>>521168017
>Suicide and murder
Are different forms of killing. If I kill a man who is trying to kill me then that's not murder or suicide

>>521168131
>contradiction

How so? He trusts us to make the right decisions with our own freedom, but if we make the wrong decisions by disobeying Him we can fail. What you’re proposing is no different than a father wanting to lobotomize his child so that he never gets hurt.

>>521167873
>Hopefully you can give up your pride and right yourself.
Isn't God the only one who can right all wrongs?
May he right me then lol
Hint: he won't
Because he doesn't give a fuck about what happens here.
>>521168131
>You make your God sound.like a bitter ex who tells you that you can't do.better than them and you'll regret leaving, lol
This.
I experienced similar things with my ex gf. I'm not falling for that again.

>>521168330
>He trusts us to make the right decisions with our own freedom, but if we make the wrong decisions by disobeying Him we can fail
This isn't free will, it's an ultimatum

>>521168330
>>521168330
>What you’re proposing is no different than a father wanting to lobotomize his child so that he never gets hurt.
And both are equally wrong

>>521168245
>with the pharaoh

“Hardened his heart” is a poor translation in how it introduces the active verb, but the interpretation was never that he directly forced the Pharaoh to take any action. The point introduced there is that God permits people to indulge in their own pride. God is continually acting through Moses to try to show him that he is wrong and needs to submit to what Moses asks and the Pharaoh denies it because he is too prideful to admit what he is seeing and to allow the slaves to be freed.

>suicide and murder are different forms of killing

They’re both killing a human. This is not your place. It is pride. The root of all sin/evil. This should be a straightforward concept relatively.

>>521168509
>but the interpretation was never that he directly forced the Pharaoh to take any action
But that's what happened, several times

>>521168509
>They’re both killing a human
One is justified and the ither isn't
>It is pride.
Ah so I should let someone kill me if they want?

>>521168415
>this isn’t free will it’s an ultimatum

Not really. A good father can try to instruct his son how to be a man, how to be a good person, how to avoid making mistakes etc. The son can listen to him or disobey him and become a piece of shit or a fuck up, and fuck his life up out of defiance to his father. That’s his own fault. The possibility that this could happen does not justify the father lobotomizing his son so that he has no agency.

>>521168648
>so I should let someone kill me if they want

No, you’re not defying God’s will by defending yourself, quite the opposite. Another person’s will to kill you is not God’s. That’s my point.

Killing yourself isn’t justified. It causes problems for people around you and is an act of pride.

The point of Pharaoh is that he has too much pride to submit. He brings the punishment on himself.

>>521168669
Father's are expected to be present in a child's life.
Where is our heavenly father? Is he present in our lives? No, he isn't. This is a godless world ruled by demons.
How can an absentee father hold his children responsible when he failed to raise them?

>>521168669
>>this isn’t free will it’s an ultimatum
>Not really
It is. You just described it
>>521167873
>Your personal wants and whims are irrelevant; you can choose to follow them but they ultimately won’t lead you anywhere because existence isn’t determined by them.
>>521168669
>A good father
Doesn't condemn their child to eternal torture over disagreements

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>>521150430
>>521150519
Good effortposts.

>>521167433
>I’ve given you multiple direct sources
No you didn’t, you just said a name and made a claim. Watch, ehem….
Astolphe de Custine observed them as having superficial or “mechanical” religiosity – lots of ritual, little catechesis.

>Australia, and the US were closest but still more like 85-90% and had less attendance and actual practicers
That kinda destroys your claim. You say Russia was the biggest and best because it has 90% church attendance (zero sauce) and then I say other countries had similar at the time (I guess we don’t need sauces) and then you agree the US and Australia has similar attendance. Okay, so Russia isn’t special.
Don’t complain about my tone if you want to be treated seriously, then act seriously.

>>521168778
>No, you’re not defying God’s will by defending yourself, quite the opposite
Right so
>>521168245
>If I kill a man who is trying to kill me then that's not murder or suicide
Glad we agree

>>521150430
>I have gotten really into 19th century Russian literature recently

faggot

>>521168778
>The point of Pharaoh is that he has too much pride to submit. He brings the punishment on himself.
Uh, no. The point was to test Moses obedience and resilience when it came to listening to God. Pharaoh was initially willing (or at least appeared to be on the verge of agreeing) to let the Israelites go before God explicitly hardened his heart

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>>521150430
I converted to Orthodoxy in 2020. I had my phase of romanticizing Russia too but not anymore. Russia is a shithole. They have worse abortion than we do, high divorce rates and rampant alcoholism.

They posses the true faith, but they are still backwards barbarians for the most part. What we need are Westerners reclaiming the true Christian religion and getting back to what built the Western world before the great schism. The Orthodox West was the greatest bulwark against Satan's earthly kingdom. Russia was just the last holdout of Christendom.

>>521150430
Don't tell me that you don't heard about Galkovsky

>>521169198
>the great schism
Oh yeah, there's also that.
So much for the unbreakable rock on which the Church is founded.
Turns out the Church itself was breakable.
Did God lie again?

>>521168946
Ah I misread that reply, my mistake. Yes self defense is not murder or suicide.

>>521168874
How is that an ultimatum? I guess it could be one in the same sense that telling your son not to do heroin or he will become a retarded junkie is an “ultimatum”, but it wouldn’t really apply because the father isn’t making that happen, it’s just a fact of reality.

>>521168858
The entire point of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is omnipresent and available to us at all times. Perhaps you should try prayer and attending a liturgical service.

>>521169118
This is an incorrect interpretation. The earliest Church fathers and philosophers of Christianity all understood that Pharaoh refusing Moses was his own choice, not God forcing him to think anything.

>>521168933
The stat is correct, Statistical Yearbooks of the Russian Empire is the primary source cited by Freeze in his work with the 95% figure.

>>521169538
You don't understand what a schism is. It means that Rome broke off from the church in the 11th century, meaning the church didn't fail, it got smaller.

>>521169538
Orthodoxy has outlasted virtually every nation and government on Earth for the past 2000 years with a perfectly preserved tradition and apostolic succession back to the source, it remains unbroken yes.

>>521150430
>They were advancing scientifically, economically, academically - but they were also different than the rest of Europe, in that they were Orthodox Christian, and also easily the most devout and spiritual Christian nation on the continent in the 19th century.
yeah, the cities were the problem and it's pretty obvious if you read early (russian) anarchist authors, and later commie/socialist ones
if you asked a russian living on the countryside if he want to move to the city he'd say "fuck off asshole or I'll hit you with a shovel," because they really optimized their living circumstances over the past few hundred years, with slowly advancing technology... meanwhile the early communal living arrangements in the cities did not have heating or water or sanitation etc.
so long story short, after taking power, the proto-globohomo communists set as their priority to move 95% of people from the countryside into the cities... no matter how bad it was or how many died (who would have lived a much better life in the countryside... I'm talking about peasants, not kulaks!)

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>>521150430
Cool story bro but christianity is as jewish as it gets and russians are mongloids

>>521169572
>Perhaps you should try prayer and attending a liturgical service.
If those things had helped I wouldn't complain about God not doing anything.
God doesn't do shit.
>Fiat voluntas tua
Not my will, his will.
And his will is to quite literally to watch the world burn down.
Fuck that.
I'm not worshiping that.
>>521169685
So you're claiming only they are true Christians and that everyone else is going to hell?
Then what about those countries where there are no Orthodox churches? How is God present there?
Should I have gone to an Orthodox service instead? But there are none near me and I don't have the means to travel just to attend Church.
If God cared, he wouldn't have allowed the schism.

>>521168874
Also
>God doesn’t condemn their child to eternal torture

Correct. The Great Divorce by CS Lewis is probably the most accurate to traditional Christian philosophy as far as a fictional narrative describing the nature of the afterlife, I’d recommend it. God doesn’t condemn anyone to torture, but people who reject God experience eternity in direct presence as unpleasant because they want to do things according to their own will but cannot as they are directly aligned with God.

To make another analogy, two sons are going back to their loving family for the holidays. One of them is sober and happy and is glad to see them and spend time with his loved ones. The other is a dick with a drug problem and spends the whole time annoyed because he’d rather abandon his family to go get high or do something else degenerate. That’s essentially what “hell” feels like for those who are entrenched in sin and pride, it’s not actually a different place from heaven.

>>521169889
No one can make a definitive statement on who goes to hell or not. It’s generally accepted that God is merciful; after Christ ascended and broke death He descends to Hades to free those who were never able to know of Him so that they’d have the chance to understand and change. It’s generally accepted this is also true for those who haven’t been gifted access to the true Church.

I would highly recommend Orthodoxy if you can get into it yes. It’s much different from both Protestantism and paganism. I grew up a Protestant in America and became a jaded atheist for years because of how retarded and nonsensical Protestant theology is in general.

I don't really understand how christians don't come to the conclusion that orthodogs are just another offshoot cathopedos who are anything but christian, just a state approved cliqure of pedophiles and money hoarders with special privilages.

>>521170132
>paganism

KEK meant Catholicism but well..

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>>521169889
God gave us free will, the schism occurred due to human sin and God respects the choices even of heretics. If there isn't a church near you, order an Orthodox study Bible and start learning. Start praying and fasting. Figure out a way to travel to a city on a Sunday to attend liturgy. I know there are plenty of Orthodox churches in Germany.

We don't know who will be saved in the end, but your best hope is getting on the ark. Best wishes.

>>521150430
cope

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>>521169198

Agreed. Started to attend Orthodox churches in covid.

But, remember that globohomo had 100% control in Russia for almost a century. State enforced atheism and feminism. Also, it quickly became a haven for psychopaths taking power in the state apparatus.

Their numbers for abortion, hiv, divorce, alcoholism have become much better in the last 30 years. But, still a shithole and they have a long way. But the Orthodox are slowly coming back with a small increments in attendees and hopefully Orthodox people have more kids, and will bless Russia once again with newer generations. My bet is it will take at least two generations from now. So 60-90 years. At least.

>>521170256
I'm not buying a bible when there's millions of translations online
>Start praying and fasting
But, I refuse.
>Figure out a way to travel to a city
I'm not doing a day trip each week, fuck that. I don't even have the money for that.
>We don't know who will be saved
I know I won't be.

>>521150430
Sorry anon but trannies only like snuff and CP, you won't sway them with this.

Russia is an analogue of the body of Christ and so it will suffer and so it will always be victorious.

>>521170720
Like I said, it's up to you anon

>>521150430
HOURLY REMINDER: there is no god and when you die it will be nothing for eternity!

>>521171031
You are obviously wrong. Something cannot come from nothing, there must have been an eternal thing that existed before the material world.
Now does this God care about the things he created?
Obviously not.

>>521150430
Russian art is incredible and Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky are my two favorite authors. Cold War + modern lib paranoia have left Russian culture criminally underappreciated in the rest of the west.

>>521171291
Meds. Now.

>>521171434
Go ahead and explain to me what caused the first cause.
That something must be God by definition.
You have the big bang in front of your eyes as the beginning of everything yet you claim this something came from nothing.

>>521171291
God bless you anon.

You have to learn to separate the evil committed by other humans (who defy God) from God’s love. The evil you decry is the same evil that God decries, but he is no helicopter parent and you have to keep in mind that you have undoubtedly done evil things as well, knowingly or not. We are all in the same boat in that respect; we’d all be just as deserving of God coming down to annihilate every adult human who understands the natural law of morality yet breaks it, but He does not punish because it is not His nature, it is not love. We punish each other.

>>521171585
Why would there be an afterlife if there was never a before life you moron

>>521150430
Be quiet.

>>521150430
>This is what amerimutt ziggers believe

Truly pathetic and sad.

>>521171701
There was a “before” life. Mathematics, laws of logic, other metaphysical things existed prior to material and to human minds, hence we discover them already extant in the world around us.

>>521171803
You sound retarded. When you die there will be nothing. Cope.

>>521169572
>How is that an ultimatum?
If I don't bend the knee then I perish

>This is an incorrect interpretation
I don't believe you

>>521171803
Hahahahhahahahahahhaha wtf how stupid are you? They are all human constructs, they are invented not discovered

>>521171641
Oh yes, I have done evil things myself, no questions asked.
But If I have to be destroyed for everyone else to be destroyed, then so be it.
Fuck this gay earth, and everyone in it.
And fuck the non-corporeal demons in particular.
And fuck God for not destroying Satan immediately after his first rebellion.
>>521171701
You are asking why death of this life is not the end, even though there was a clear start to your life?
It's simple, because bodily death is not the same as spiritual death.
Body and spirit are one, but only God can destroy the latter.
And I hope he destroys us all.
Anyway, you still fail to explain the beginning of everything - the universe - the "world all" as we say in German.

>>521172084
God doesn’t exist moron. It’s a man made myth.

>>521171859
Sounds like you really need that to be true, feeling guilty about something?

Unfortunately the realm of information is self-evident and shows that the material world is subsequent to the abstract rational structure and laws which define it, and our minds are evidently of the same stripe, so our minds are in fact quite objectively undying essences separate from the decaying world of the material.

>>521172017
If you don’t not do heroin you’ll become a junkie. If you want to see that as an ultimatum I guess you can but it’s still true and you still probably shouldn’t do heroin.

>>521172076
>mathematical concepts are invented
>the law of non contradiction is invented

So humans can just invent that 3x5=8 now? How does that work?

There's no question that Russians made the best classical music in the 19th century.

>>521172121
See >>521172084
>Anyway, you still fail to explain the beginning of everything - the universe - the "world all" as we say in German.
I won't respond further unless you address the issue of the unmoved mover.
>>521172166
>If you don’t not do heroin you’ll become a junkie. If you want to see that as an ultimatum I guess you can but it’s still true and you still probably shouldn’t do heroin.
And if God lets me play with a bunch of junkies and then gets angry at me for having a needle in my arm he's a faggot.

>>521169924
>>God doesn’t condemn their child to eternal torture
Thats also up for interpretation

>>521150430

https://youtu.be/wHaoYbdg8rY

>>521172166
I feel guilty about continuing to speak to a moron like you. Enjoy nothingness. Don’t be afraid.. you won’t experience it

>>521172166
>If you don’t not do heroin you’ll become a junkie. If you want to see that as an ultimatum
We aren't talking about junkies or material fathers. We're talking about a God who's will supercedes everyone

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>>521150430
>>521150519
Another embarrassing American post fellating LE TRAD ORTHODOXY GREATEST CHRISTIANITY SAAR.

I'll just refer to Blepps' summary of Russian Orthodoxy:

https://hussitegaming.substack.com/p/the-based-church-of-trad

>>521172300
The concept of Hell as a separate place where God isn’t is not up to interpretation, it’s pretty explicitly denied by the Christian Church and apostles from the get-go

>>521172421
Obviously, it’s an analogy. The point being that someone giving you advice not to do dumb shit so that you don’t suffer is just that. An ultimatum would be forcing you to choose between two bad choices, not giving you the freedom to make whatever choice you want with the heads up that some are probably going to lead to bad outcomes for you.

>>521172410
Odd that this kind of conversation would be apparently emotionally upsetting to you but I digress, no arguments were heard.

>>521172642
Meds

>>521150430
How did you already not know this? The Bolsheviks exterminated the Russian intelligentsia and noble high caste families during the revolution. The current Russian stock is descended from brutes and peasants. The elite Russians 20th century were the most refined white people the world has ever known. That’s why the jews killed them.

>>521172642
>The concept of Hell as a separate place where God isn’t is not up to interpretation,
What happens there is

>>521172642
>The point being that someone giving you advice not to do dumb shit so that you don’t suffer is just that.
That's not what's happening with your God though. He isn't giving me advice and leaving me be. He condemns me for not choosing his way, or rather what men claim is "his way"

>An ultimatum would be forcing you to choose between two bad choices,
Exactly what's happening

>not giving you the freedom to make whatever choice you want with the heads up that some are probably going to lead to bad outcomes for you.
Correct, hence him sending me to hell

>>521172832
God doesn’t condemn you, you condemn yourself through your own choices. He gives you the opportunity to avoid this with Divine Revelation and the Church to guide you.

>>521172966
>He gives you the opportunity to avoid this with Divine Revelation and the Church to guide you.
Jist like the mob boss gives you the opportunity to pay and avoid his thugs killing you

I don't "condemn" myself to an eternity of suffering. Instead I use my free will to freely avoid your God and all the nonsense that goes with it

>>521150430
The western solipist is real.

>orthodox Christian

Whatever that is.

>Zionist

Solipist.

More to the matter and the fact of that Russia is more than capable of taking UK & US & the EU without Geneva conventions without even needing China.

>>521171434
Typical pig behavior

>>521169572
The State and Religious Minorities in Sweden by Linnea Lundgren. In 1870
Population: about 4.5 million
Roman Catholics: 512
Russian-Greek Orthodox: 28
Jews: 1,574 (the only significant non-Christian group listed)
So Swedens non-Christians were roughly 0.03–0.04% of the population.
Again you are drawing on data to fit your conclusion (OMG RUSSIA LE HECKIN BASED) not the other way around.
Russia wasn’t unique or special.

>>521173331
>4.5million

Less than 1500 jews.

>>521173331

According to you. 99%

>>521150430
>>521150519
>>521151111
Good posts and checked. Understanding of Russia and its perception of the west has been warped by both Soviet/bolshevik propaganda against the Tsar and by US Cold War propaganda that tried to spin its communist origins as being from a backwards and fallen society.

Always find it funny how Lenin was basically a psychological weapon that the Germans funded and sent into Russia for the express purpose of destabilizing the country

>>521172517
Orbital Kek.

>>521170342
The Russian church was a tool of the State before communism, it was a tool afterwards and it’s a tool now. I find it all highly unconvincing, even before you get into the weird theology

>>521170132
>of how retarded and nonsensical Protestant theology is in general.
*cough* toll houses *cough*

>>521169685
>with a perfectly preserved tradition
Anon, I… do you HONESTLY believe that?

>>521174278
>the Orthodox Church is a hecking tool of the Russian government

Won’t pretend the government doesn’t try to use it as an avenue of influence and power but this is unironically majority glownigger propaganda from the west. The west has actively tried to influence the patriarch in Greece to create a schism with the rest of the churches in communion with Russia while simultaneously liberalizing them. The Russian Orthodox Church is the most conservative branch of Orthodoxy and Christianity in general by far and has stood against basically all attempted moves towards globohomo while ZOG glowniggers have tried to use their influence in Greece to push homo acceptance and other nonsense and create a divide.

If they are a KGB asset or whatever you want to claim, they are still far more based and traditional compared to whatever the fuck you want to call the Vatican or Protestant America sucking Israeli dick

>The proof that my savior, the peaceful charitable healer and teacher, is the true savior?
>The fact that his followers could successfully maim, dominate and kill everyone who opposed conversion!
There is a shitton of text in here for such a dumb argument.

>>521174828
>The west has actively tried to influence the patriarch in Greece to create a schism with the rest of the churches in communion with Russia while simultaneously….
Core problem with your argument is that you are making a false assumption. You are assuming since the west tried to control Constantinople the Russian Church can’t be a tool of the state. But that doesn’t logically follow.
Patriarch is ex-KGB
Numerous priests are ex-KGB
They build churches to commies
The Patriarch says “die fighting the secular states wars and you will go to heaven lmao”.
You’ve noted something true but the people who pointed it out then lied when they said “and therefore we must be the good guys”.
>they are still far more based
Being based won’t get you into heaven.
>and traditional
Dying for ex-commies landgrabs isn’t traditional and won’t get you into heaven.

Peter The Great started Russia's modernization to keep up with Europe in the 18th century, long before the red terror.

>>521150430
Marx was an antichrist.

>>521150430
The fuck it was

>>521150430
Read writers like Pushkin, from early 19th c., and there are always lines about how degraded things are. Old, worn out, delapitated. They were old before we were even young.
Be sure to read the bio of Peter the Great.
That will give you a better understanding of Russia, of Putin, and how they fit into the world.
Dosty is best, though.

>>521150430
>in that they were Orthodox Christian, and also easily the most devout and spiritual Christian nation on the continent in the 19th century
This is oversimplification, you can state that only if you do not know history of Orthodoxy and constant heterodox heresies in Russia.

.

Good op now read a history book too so you can finally see the Bolsheviks were not the ones who forced the zar to abdicate and create a provisional secular government while being controlled by masonic loges from New York

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>>521150430
>>521150519
That's a lot of words that can be summarized as "DA JOOOOOOOS BAD BUT RABBI YESHUA IS KANG!"

>>521150586
>oy vey

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>>521151609
Hey fucking retard, NATO countries like Greece, Romania, Montenegro, Macedonia, Croatia and Albania have lots of Orthodox Cuckstian churches. And before 2022 you fucking faggots also used to call Ukraine "based and redpilled trad Christian Orthobros" but now they are "Satanic false christian jooooos". Hmmmm wonder what changed?

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>>521159326
Meanwhile, not far away..

>>521150430
To the top.

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>>521183857
Lake of fire is coming for you, Satan.

>>521185681
Oh no! Not a bible verse!

>>521156723
Scriabin was a Russian composer and he is basically one of the bests…ever. Just underrated —since he is that good, he’s basically beyond the normies understanding. Some of his best works were made around 1900. Technically and metaphysically brilliant. Though he did take a lot of inspiration from Wagner. But thats not a bad thing lol.

Anyways, Russia truly was the pinnacle of culture and all that. Britain feared Russia and Germany, but most of all, it feared a Russian-German alliance. This would have destroyed their hegemony and made their naval trade power obsolete. Britain colluded with the US (international banking powers) to pit Russia and Germany against each other and leave them both depleted (poster world war 1 and then 2). Funny enough, this also destroyed the British empire in the process and shifted global hegemony to America and the financial-informational system of power and control.

Don’t know why I’m replying this to you but you seem to know what’s up. Much love.

>>521179693
It’s western OrthoLARPers who have oikiphobia so they attach themselves to an eastern “orthodox” and then identify with something a pseudo history they invented in their head.
Example
>>521150430
>>521166439
>Russia based and the good guy of history cause it once had 90-95% of people identify as Christian
>>521173331
Sweden once has 99%
>Well now that’s not proof of anything.
And it’s always like this
>>521167261
>IT ALL STEMS FROM THE GREAT SCHISM *proceeds to regurgitate history from an eastern narrative*
What if both are wrong. Maybe the Oriental Orthodox are right and it all stems from Chalcedon?

>>521174828
Orthodox are nigger worshipping cuckolds.

>>521150430
Sorry to disappoint you but the Russian Empire was a very underdeveloped country. It was very agrarian with extremely outdated farming tools. It just couldn't compete with more developed countries which made up for their lack of territory with technology. I mean, the country literally couldn't feed itself which ultimately led to hunger riots and revolution.

>>521150430
Chapter 4 - A Century of Struggle: Rothschild versus the People
https://youtu.be/iv9jZVDBdwI?

>>521187887
Russia @ 24 min mark

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>>521150430
>a complete fabrication and in fact the opposite.
now you know what real Tataria really was.

>>521150586
The alive bolsheviks need to be killed you've reminded us

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>>521187204
>yiddish seething
kek

>>521166365
The Bolsheviks created communists and the KGB. The KGB took over the Russian Orthodox Church and made it a government institution, controlling it still to this day. Ukraine’s Orthodox Church split off from it because it had enough after Russia invaded them. Somehow, this is a bad thing. This is how dumb these posters are.

>>521166365
Either Latvia or Estonia definitely did label the ROC as a terrorist organization and they are deporting Russians who were born there

>>521150430
Believe it or not, but there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that specifically calls the Jews or the Tribe of Judah God’s chosen people. This misconception comes from the fact that the Jews of today have declared themselves to be Israel and not the house of Judah, as the Scriptures rightfully call them.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220526080336/https://gottmituns.com/what-is-a-jew/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ESNI-FvFyQ

>>521184098
>”Satanic false christian jooooos"
>wonder what changed

Their kike leader seized autocratic control and began persecuting the Orthodox Church just like his Bolshevik commie ancestors while promoting faggot LARPers like Azov Battalion

>>521150586
trvke. just cos tschaikovsky was a great composer dont mean serfdom was based

>>521186604
Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll look into him. And I fully agree with all of what you said here.

>>521156723
rachmaninoff mogs

>>521159058
jewcucks and their desert demons btfod

>>521150430
I would rather be a simple farmer in a Christian nation then a cog in a commieblock so atheist line can go up

>>521187204
We know both Orientals and Catholics are wrong and retarded and wrong because both essentially got excommunicated by every other leader of the church and then tried to retroactively frame it as a “schism” instead them getting kicked out as a lone rebel trying to commit heresy

>>521190156
Kek

From a theological perspective there is literally zero justification for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church to split off and become its own jurisdiction aside from western powers wanting to carve the church into pieces for geopolitical reasons and turn as much of Orthodoxy as they can into a fag house like the modern Vatican and Protestantism. I’ve still yet to hear a valid explanation for how exactly the KGB is “using” the Russian Orthodox Church and to do what exactly? You can’t just declare yourself independent from your ecumenical patriarch because of political pressure. Same exact logic where bending to geopolitical influence led the Vatican to “absolving jews” of Christ’s murder because of muh holohoax

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>>521184098
>Ukraine "based and redpilled trad Christian Orthobros
...until
>>521190156
>Ukraine’s papist Uniate Church got recognized by Constantinople after the Ecumenical Patriarch Barholomew accepted $20 million from Hillary Clinton
have a ftfy

>>521191028
if u think the church aint in the service of glowies, boy o boy. thats all churches btw. this is some naive bs.

>>521191212
>more blind assertion
>no explanation

The “Ukrainian” Orthodox “Chuch” and the glownigger slave in Constantinople are 100% enslaved by the glownigger ZOG apparatus as seen here, that much I can agree with. >>521191065

>>521150430
>>521150519
I agree wholeheartedly.

>>521191349
the russian orthodogs were tzarist remnants treating him a god-sent and were rightfully btfod. the reason everyone rees about them now as putins spies is because thats what they use their own churches for. thats what mosques are, what synagogues are, its over dont be naive

>>521191930
>they’re putins hecking spies hecking collecting information on people as they… take communion and pray for an hour and a half each Sunday

Sounds like utter nonsense. Best possible explanation you could say is maybe confession is how they “spy” on people? But confession is usually just personal issues the government won’t give a fuck about not elaborate plans being revealed about how you’re going to do some political action or something. I’m sure Russia also has an extensive spying network based on actual technology and the internet just like every other country now, the idea that they’d rely on physically spying on people via churches during liturgical services frankly sounds like complete boomer retardation derived from vague memories of Cold War propaganda

imagine believing this crap
I'm glad I don't have to live with those subhumans anymore
t. unironically russian

>>521192133
your "based" church is a cuck cult. its that simple. the churches are agitators they aint doing james bond disk retrievals, hence the split bc its based on nationalism not catechism

>>521192206
youre not russian youre some steppoid muttshit

>>521192678
>it is because it just is okay

You sound like a literal ZOGbot. Are you real?

>>521193068
you are in major denial. you want a religious epiphany? unironically go find some silent monks

>>521191065
>easter
>catholic

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>>521150430
europe was in dark ages for nearly a millenia and a half from having worshipped a jew. if it wasnt for the fall of byzantium, they mightve never gotten out. but with the fall the great jewish-christian firewall finally ended and the greek and latin classics flooded into europe. it got so bad the jewish medicis had to open up a fake platonic academy just to damage control the narrative. that, coenciding with the printing press, led to a loss of narrative control that was irrecovable. mass literacy lead to people reading the bible and realizing how gay, jewish, and retarded it was. and that was the beginning of the end for christianity. the christians who remain go for the social perks, not because they actually believe it. if you come across someone who genuinely believes they were created by a circumcised sinless rabbi who was arrested with a naked boy, they are full blown transjewish. they belong in the mental wards with the jews and all the other trannies.

there is not excuse to living in a digital age and remaining a jewish slave npc

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>>521152639
turn family against family, where have i heard that before?

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>>521193414
>eastern catholic
ftfy again
papism doesn't care about calendars or even recognizing saints
it only cares about recognizing the Heresiarch in Rome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches

>>521192713
>youre not russian youre some steppoid muttshit
yгy, пacacи хyйцa, пидop

>>521166454
>When Alexander II abolished serfdom
And what happened famously to those serfs who were driven off their land?

The serfs worked 3 days a week for their Lord and were given acres of land with which to build and develop as they pleased. Can you say that you have such a good deal today? Do you have more than an acre of land and 4 days off a week to tend to your business? (Oh yeah and a virginal wife, 40 feast days a year, and a community that shares your history and mindset?)

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>>521194959
>The serfs worked 3 days a week for their Lord and were given acres of land with which to build and develop as they pleased.
lol yeah right
they were lliterate subhumans who lived in dirt, breaking their backs 6 days a week and getting slaughtered for fun on the 7th day by the landlord.
> Do you have more than an acre of land and 4 days off a week to tend to your business?
I actually do because I'm not a poorfag like you.
>Oh yeah and a virginal wife, 40 feast days a year, and a community that shares your history and mindset?
Uhuh yeah, all that cool stuff that landlords reported on paper to the Tzar while literally competing with the groom for that "virginal wife's" unpopped cherry. Imagine being this fucking gullible lmao.
Read picrel. Get Kennan's version if European languages aren't your thing. Gullible fucking morons all of you.

>>521189818
>zero counter argument
I accept your concession

>>521191028
>because both essentially got excommunicated by every other leader of the church and then tried to retroactively frame it as a “schism”
Except all the ones that sided with them. By your logic the EO must be wrong because all the EO bishops other than Mark of Ephesus sided with Rome as the Ecumenical council of flourence or is this yet another case where the standards you set don’t apply the moment they are inconvenient.

>>521150430
This is correct, communism is often credited with rapid industrialization (that it did achieve) but pre-revolution Russia was displaying signs of significant advancement:
>Empire spanning Asia built on frozen Tundra
>Rapid rail system across it
>World's first airliner in 1913
>Arguably the world's first assault rifle in 1915
>Winning against Austria in WW1 despite incredible dysfunction and a lower priority region

>>521150586
Still kvetching over your missing foreskin?

>>521193847
>papism doesn't care about calendars or even recognizing saints
Well yeah… calendars haven’t always been the same. Id teneamus quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est: hoc etenim vere proprieque catholicum.
If you want to discuss recognising saints have you considered the fact the EO still have the Buddha as a saint? Alongside a Serbian pedophile.

>>521191065
>*pic*
To be fair to Ukraine, Russia does have a long history of using its priests as tools of the state. Bulgaria is in communion with Russia and they still kicked out the head of the Russian priests in Bulgaria, Archimandrite Vasian in 2023.

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>>521196005
That's because they're a member of the EU. The EU persecutes Russians culturally, religiously, basically in every way then promotes pic related.

What you're saying is basically propaganda, this is like when Zelensky expelled monks from a monastery. it's straight up religious persecution under some silly pretense.

you can choose
>suffer under the omega retard tsar, be formerly/technicly free, but your entire family needs to be a slave and oftenly worse to have food on the table
or
>get anschluss´d by NWO ver.1.0 via proxy funding of bolshevists cuz you denied our meeting in vienna
JOKEEE! we killed his entire family and his dog and anschluss´d them anyway! tough luck goy!

>>521193847
Orthodoxs recognize paganism (easter).