Hell doesnt' even mean what you think it means. It doesn't have the connotation of evil, demons, punishment, fire, etc. The word "hell" is not Biblical. Its old English but goes back to old Germanic/Dutch HEL. It means "cover." It's where we get the words Cellar, Hall, Hull of a ship, Conceal, and Helmet. The connotation is to cover something completely up. The most accurate use of HEL is Germanic and Nordic where people were buried or covered over with dirt. Thus, they went to HEL or the hidden place covered over place of the dead. Or the HALL of The Dead. This perfectly coincides with the Bible's Sheol and Greek Hades. Sheol and Hades are AMMORAL. Neither good nor evil go there. So it means that's where the dead go in general.Pagans invented it hell, The Catholic Church adopted it. In the OT wherever you see "hell" the original word is She'ol. She'ol is just the common grave of mankind. In the NT, wherever you see the word "hell" the original word is Hades. It is also just the grave of mankind.So there are two kinds of hells in the Bible.One is temporary>hades>She'olOne is permanent>Gehenna>Lake of FireWhen Jesus is quoted as saying "hell" it is actually Gehenna. Gehenna means "Valley of Hinnom." It was a garbage dumb that was lit on permanent fire with sulfur. They threw trash in it. When they executed criminals they threw there bodies in it as well. If the bodies slipped out the worms would get it. Thus, Gehenna represents total annihilation with no escape and no memory.Those in Hades/She'ol are waiting to be resurrected and it's for everyone who has died. Those in Gehenna/Lake of Fire are destroyed permanently. No resurrection for them. THIS is for bad people. Because of the over-generalized translation of "hell" everywhere nobody can understand the truth about death and resurrection
>>522513626The Bible teaches that the dead are unconscious and go back to oblivion, or non-existence.>Isaiah 38:18,19 - 18 For it is not She´ol that can laud you; death itself cannot praise you. Those going down into the pit cannot look hopefully to your trueness. The living, the living, he is the one that can laud you, Just as I can this day.>Psalms 6:5 - For in death there is no mention of you; In Sheol who will laud you?>Psalms 88:10 - For those who are dead will you do a marvel? Or will those impotent in death themselves arise, Will they laud you? Selah.>Psalms 146:4 - His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.>Psalm 88:12 - Will a marvel by you be known in the darkness itself, Or your righteousness in the land of oblivion?>Psalms 115:17 - 17 The dead themselves do not praise Jah, Nor do any going down into silence.>(Ecclesiastes 3:18-20) I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.>Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 - 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.
>>522513626>>522513671There is no hell in the Bible. Only going back to the grave. This is God's opinion on burning people alive.>Jeremiah 19:5 - And they built the high places of the Baal in order to burn their sons in the fire as whole burnt offerings to the Baal, something that I had not commanded or spoken of, and that had not come up into my heart.”’>Jeremiah 32:35 - Furthermore, they built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through [the fire] to Molech, a thing that I did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing, for the purpose of making Judah sin.’>Jeremiah 7:31 - And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.’God admitted three times up above he would never command anyone to do that nor would he ever think of doing that himself. If God created hell that would make God a huge hypocrite because he is doing it on a grander scale. However, God doesn't burn people alive in any way. He lets them die and cease to exist. So if you refuse to submit to God than you will go to oblivion, not hell
>>522513671this was true until Jesus Christ ransomed our souls.but of a course a JW denies the Christ. this is why your NIV is missing many verses.You know the penalty for adding or removing verses in the Bible, yes?
>>522513779those verses speak of sacrificial offerings to other gods, not the morals of burning otherwise.kind of like your false blasphemies offered up the Bible to demons.
Source?
>>522513936>this was true until Jesus Christ ransomed our souls.This continues to be true today. No one has been resurrected on earth. Atleast not yet. >but of a course a JW denies the Christ. What do we deny?>this is why your NIV is missing many verses.We don't own the NIV. We own the NWT.
>>522514033Correct but the point is that he would never think of doing the same as well. He would never think of lighting someone on fire PERMANENTLY for eternity.
>>522514184The Bible
>>522514184Google it ? This is accurate as to what I've read
abrahamic cults get the rope
>>522513626Just making up some random stuff and holding some thing in importance various to others We are spiritual beings and these books come from us Don’t take it so literally though We are not going to figure all of reality while we are here. Probably on purpose for us to learn here.Somethings are more to what they seem But just be a good moral person
>>522513626There's one verse at the end of revelations about the dragon being cast into fire that never goes out, "that is the second death".This is the source of the idea that people go to hell. Its actually the Greek Tartarus that's being described, using the Norse name.And gehenna was first a place of child sacrifice, then the hebrews reconquered it and used it as a latrine as a sign of disrespect to the god of child sacrifice. Over time it became an industrial landfill that eventually caught fire.
>>522515368Correct. No thanks to the KJV for mistranslated Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Everlasting cut off, as "hell" no one knows the truth anymore about what happens after death. When Jesus is quoted as saying "hell" it is actually Gehenna. Gehenna means "Valley of Hinnom." It was a garbage dumb that was lit on permanent fire with sulfur. They threw trash in it. When they executed criminals they threw there bodies in it as well. If the bodies slipped out the worms would get it. Thus, Gehenna represents total annihilation with no escape and no memory. No living people were thrown in Gehenna. Only dead bodies. So there's no connotation of pain and agony in Gehenna. Only to be forgotten because nobody got a memorial tomb in that garbage dump. You would be an anonymous dead body. Thus, you would be forgotten forever. So it represents oblivion, aka, nothingness forever.
>>522515252>Don’t take it so literally thoughOf course not. Hell isn't literal. That's what all these posts are about >>522513626>>522513671>>522513779There's no such thing as a dimension full of demons with caverns of lava, smoke, and torture chambers. When people die they go to non-existence. Oblivion. This is the result of the KJV mistranslating Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Everlasting cut off, as "hell"
>>522516463>There's no such thing as a dimension full of demonslol
There is underworld and overworld. As you go up, appearances become more ethereal, knowledge is easily apparent, and identity is vague and shifting. Beings here typically act selflessly with not much agenda. As you go down, appearances become more dense and solid. More physical dimensions may appear, colors are brighter, more vivid, and there are more of them. Knowledge is less apparent or trusted, there is less serenity and more emotion. Beings here have strong, solid identities, are passionate, and have strong beliefs.Where we belong is more a matter of what we want, what we are looking for in this phase of our existence. Passionate beings with strong missions would be very bored in heaven. Serene enlightened beings would be in terror of the ignorance of hell. When you look at this planes without the good/bad connotations, it’s more about how this entire existence is organized.
>>522513626hell is having a bad trip when you're on the christ drug. it literally lasts for an eternity.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPHyR92MQic#bottom-sheet
>>522516890You go up through gaining knowledge, shedding fear and becoming lighter. You go down by taking on guilt and shame, becoming denser. All of it is choice, we are all free beings. In hell states, we may take on a veil of ignorance to maintain our existence there, for example we may believe we are being punished or that we are evil when none is this is really true, but necessary to maintain our density.
>>522516890The problem is that death is oblivion and unconsciousness >>522513671You are not a spirit wearing a meat costume. What you see in the mirror is all there is.
>>522513626If you follow Christ then none of this speculation about the nature of hell matters because you shouldn't be going there
I'm scizo and sometimes float in my sleep, floating around my room, while I can see myself sleeping. About 6 years ago I was performing aleister crowley like magic, and started hearing voices.When you're in spirit you feel nothing but positive emotions and create music, but it seems i've got a genie and he blasphemes and tortures and ridicules me, so when I float I can't make music for long. I also experienced being pulled into a pit by my genie, which was scary and then created a dream where I saw myself surrounded by fire and as a neon green robed wizard.
>>522517575I had a dream I floated to my wall and wrote 666 on the wall in blood, then saw lucifer as my neck twisted 180 degrees
>>522517493Correct but hell makes people afraid of God or even hate him. People don't want to worship God because they feel they are being blackmailed into it. They believe God is using hell to coerce people out of fear. This misrepresents God as well as a person. Yes, God punishes people but he won't torture people nor coerce you to worship him like an abusive parent that demands obedience out of fear of physical abuse.
>>522513626YESHUA SUCKS
There is no reason why an individual cannot use their free will to always choose good, is there? If there is nothing preventing me from always choosing good of my own free will, this must hold true for everyone else.If it is possible for everyone to use their free will to choose good, then it is trivial with omnipotence to create that universe.If it makes it easier for you to understand, imagine I create infinite universes with free will. In at least one of these universes, there exists a universe where everyone chose good every time simply by chance. If I now "delete" every other universe, the one I am left with>has free will intact>has no evilThat is what I would do if I was omnipotent.
>>522513626MetempsycosisHell is temporary and everyone will go through it, some more time/lifes than others.Heaven is the final destination for everyone
>>522518189Who gets to decide what is right and wrong?
>>522518570>Heaven is the final destination for everyoneActually it's the final destination for only 144K. The rest are staying on a cleaned up planet earth. Pic related
>>522518800The omnipotent creator (God). In my hypothetical scenario, I am the creator and the arbiter or what is right. So I would define what is right and what is wrong. Then I would create a universe where everyone uses their free will to always choose good.This would be trivial with omnipotence.
>>522519191>Then I would create a universe where everyone uses their free will to always choose goodThat's exactly what God did. So why does evil exist? It has nothing to do with free will. These two posts explain thathttps://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522503918/#q522506458https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522503918/#q522506510
>>522513626I've always liked some of the paintings you guys make. The way pharisees were depicted were always amusing.
>>522519466Nothing in those posts negate anything I have said. If I was omnipotent, I would create a world where everyone chooses good of their own free will and goes to heaven. This is trivial with omnipotence and since I want everyone to go to heaven, it would satisfy me.
>>522520055If everyone chose good all the time then why not let them live on earth forever? The whole reason death exist is because of sin. If Adam and Eve never sinned then they would still be alive today.
>>522519848Blessed and bread-pilled
>>522513626Give me a tldr for>who are we actually>why are we here/why were we created>how does reality operates like>what happens when we die like what we see>what it feels like to be dead
>>522520585>who are we actuallyWe are Man. Just pure organic earth beings. We are not spirit creatures wearing meat costumes. Nothing flies out when we die. >why are we here/why were we createdGod’s motivating quality is love. He wanted to share existence with others because his own existence was beautiful and blissful. >how does reality operates likeThat's a question for physicists and quantum mechanics. >what happens when we die like what we seeDeath is pure unconsciousness. You sense nothing, feel nothing, think nothing, dream nothing. You are not aware of the passage of time. >what it feels like to be deadSee above
>>522521343https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSuuK1sRU60
>>522518189Deleting all the universes with evil means that free will is NOT intact.
>>522518189restricting freedom can only come at the expense of love; love cannot force anyone to do anything
secrets of worshipping the one true god:-no meat-no images-no prayersdo this several times a year, on days of your choice, then return to reverence for the gods
>>522513626the real problem is that /pol/ doesnt listen to the New Testament on earbuds all day but watches gender euphoria on netflix and texts catboys instead
>>522514421iron mixed with clay = big iron mainframes mixed with humans
>>522522519We are at the bottom of the feet. >>522522423There are some individuals here who are receptive to Biblical truths. JW are willing to knock on 100 doors if it means finding only one sheep.
>>522521582Why not just delete the individuals who choose evil immediately?
>>522513626Christianity was meant to be a soft sell. A no-brainer. I'm one of those heretical "Universalists". Based on studying it for a few decades I believe 80% that the unsaved will still be saved, only as through a fire. Little of the worldly "them" will be left in eternity. Christians who lived with the knowledge of Christ and the love of God will enter into paradise more or less unchanged, saved for the core of my sinful nature that leads me astray to this day. I'm about 20% toward the "final annhilation" view, which says non-Christians just cease to exist after judgement. The "eternal torture" hard sell was an invention of the Catholics who merged the Good News of Christianity with Roman paganism. Every time I hear an atheist make the argument that says, "Love me or I'll torture you forever" is psychotic and insane and why would you worship something like that I agree with them. The knowledge that you are saved but your family and friend will burn in infinite torment forever is not Good News. You can't spin that into Good News! I'm not a Jehovah Witness BTW but you are doing His will here I believe, so may God bless you.j20yw
>>522520055>God likes a little variety in his creations.
>>522513626>>522513626>>522513626MYGODWILLTORTUREYOUFOREVERIFYOUDON'TDOWHATHESAYS (according to me)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>522522940Blessed and bread-pilled
>>522523290If you choose good and love, you will go to Heaven where you will live eternally happy.If you choose evil and hatred, you will go to Hell where you will suffer eternally.>NOOO soooo unfair
>>522513626I’m an annihilationist myself but Jesus is God
>>522515931>the KJV for mistranslated Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Everlasting cut off, as "hell"You must be a bot or shill to be lying on /pol/ 24/7. The Bible very specifically states that God does not forsake anyone forever->For no one is cast off by the Lord forever (Lamentations 3:31)
>>522525803We are talking about death, not abandonment.
>>522513626Thread about fictional locations?
>>522513671Im jewish and you are correct
>tl;drYou are in hell and we call it society
>>522526213Bread-pilled
>>522526213I'm a white Christian that doesn't like Jewish demons like you and he's still correct.
>>522526468Correct but it's only temporary. Pic related will happen soon.
>>522526468Yeah that's why this world will be destroyed and replaced with a new one where Jesus Kingdom reigns supreme.
what about "weeping and gnashing of teeth?"that doesn't sound like the silent torment of thoughtless oblivion
>>522515931>No living people were thrown in GehennaJesus is going to throw the Antichrist and his associate the False Prophet alive into the Firelake (Rev 19:20)
>>522526569The physical planet earth is not going to be destroyed, disobedient humanity will be destroyed. >2 Peter 3:6,7-and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water.+ 7But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.Notice how verse 6 says the earth suffered destruction with the flood. Yet we are still on that same planet. Notice how the end of 7 states the fire reserved for the earth is really for "ungodly people."The world represents all humanity on earth. That's what will destroyed.
>>522526916>(Revelation 20:14) And death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.>(Revelation 21:8) But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.”>THIS MEANS THE SECOND DEATH>THIS MEANS THE SECOND DEATHThe Lake of Fire in Revelations is the same as Gehenna in the Gospels. It represents complete annihilation. The reason why it is the "second death" is because after Armageddon some bad people will be brought back to life and be given a second chance. They will fail and die again. A Second Death. Only this time it is forever. So it's not literal.Second, we know it's not literal because "death and hades" are thrown into the Lake of Fire. How can death and hades be thrown anywhere or into anything? Those are not things, they are conditions and abstracts. That's the same as throwing "numbers and words" into the Lake of Fire. Those are abstracts. So it's not literal. That means after Armageddon death will be no more.>(Revelation 20:10) And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.Yes, this says the devil will be thrown into it and will be "tormented day and night forever and ever." However we know this isn't literal because angels are immune to fire.(Ex 3:2; Judges 13:20). Some angels are made of fire or permanently lit on fire(Isa 6:2,6). A literal Lake of Fire wouldn't hurt Satan.
>>522526569>>522527050a better take is that the Lord Jesus returns, makes war on the Antichrist empire and sets up His 1,000 literal reign on this literal earth, and (see Rev. 20:7) then Satan is released and causes a final battle after which (see Rev. 21:1) God remakes the earth, and heaven.
>just don't goezpz
>>522527219>How can death and hades be thrown anywhere or into anything? Those are not things, they are conditions and abstracts.those are like thrones and powers, over principalities, in the unseen realm.And will literally be cast into the Firelake, but that is a spiritual fire, not a material fire, but no less literal. anyway, your pic is awesome. i pray all seeking anons stay away from a sect that denies that Jesus Christ is Uncreated. but that's a fine pic.
>>522527515You got everything correct except the last part. Right after Armageddon, the 1K reign begins. DURING the 1K year reign the earth is "made new." In other words it is going to be cleaned up by the survivors and resurrected. Heaven has already been "remade." Satan and the demons have already been casted out of heaven. So the angels and Jesus are currently enjoying a cleaned up heaven. What was accomplished in heaven with then be accelerated on earth next.
>>522527887but it's like you're ignoring this:>“And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.”Revelation 20:7-8
>>522513626>Germanic/DutchYou dumb nigger retard. Stick to topics you actually know about.
>>5225277512 Peter 3:9-9Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.The picture is out of context
The babble is gay desert schizophrenic shit skin ramblings.
>>522528024I agree with your post. It doesn't contradict what I posted.
>>522528123those who overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and the word of their testimony (which is their covenant with Christ), and loving not their lives even to the death, are indeed promised their true name in death, as it is written:>“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’”Revelation 2:17
>>522528285so we agree that after Jesus reigns on the earth for 1,000 then Satan is released to make war against Jesus and is finally defeated, (again) after Christ's 1,000 reign?
>>522527820You forget >THIS MEANS THE SECOND DEATH>THIS MEANS THE SECOND DEATHThe Lake of Fire represents the SECOND DEATH. What that means is this >(John 5:28, 29) Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.>(Acts 24:15) and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.>(John 5:29) and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.The Bible teaches that after the end of the world there will bet two resurrections: One of the righteous and one of unrighteous. One of faithful and one who committed vile things to be judged in the next system.The Bible does acknowledge individuals around the world who never had a chance to know God and Christ. That's where the second resurrection comes in up above. The unrighteous resurrection will be for bad people who acted out of ignorance, mental illness, isolation, social and political engineering, etc. This includes people from times and eras where God did not reveal himself to them. They will be brought back to life in the next system of Earth where no evil and no devil exist anymore. THEY will be judged under that system. If they can change they can stay, if they refuse they go back to eternal oblivion(SECOND DEATH.) Babies will be brought back to life here.
>>522528462Yes
>>522513626>tormentThat suggests corporeal reality so one basically teleports into hell upon death I guess?It you mean psychological torment in a non-physical reality then after a few millenia or so (in our terms) even the most dimwitted could reason their way around that.>eternalAgain, given enough 'time' one would become so inured to the experience that it would no longer be 'torment', just 'today again'.
>>522513626All conditioned phenomena are inconstant, whatever is inconstant is stressful and cannot be you or yours.By clinging onto and desiring what is subject to decay, you keep your mind bound up with that very stress.You will keep wandering on and on according to your kamma, sometimes good, sometimes bad, unless you train your mind to give up all suffering and stress.Sensuality is simply hurting yourself so that you can feel relief from that pain, because it's the only kind of relief you know. Since pleasure and happiness are simply freedom from pain/craving, then the highest happiness is the complete freedom from all suffering and stress. It can only be attained by abandoning all craving, anything less and you'll keep wandering on.We've all probably had these same discussions countless times over, since there's no discernable beginning to ignorance of suffering.
>>522528971>We've all probably had these same discussions countless times over, since there's no discernable beginning to ignorance of sufferingFirst time for anything. First time I have ever heard this. Sounds Buddhist.
>>522513626Simple question: If our free will is what causes us to sin, and there is no sin in heaven, how could actual free will exist in heaven?
>>522513671>>522513936This is not true.Jesus gave the parable of the rich man and Lazarus explaining that those that had died, even before Jesus went to the cross, were fully conscious.Now it happened that the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom, and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things. But now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you are not able, and none may cross over from there to us.’— Luke 16:22-26These passages refer to the dead no longer praising God in the flesh with the rest of the living on Earth.
>>522514241>What do we deny?Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’”— Matthew 4:10And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are truly God’s Son!”— Matthew 14:33And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.— Matthew 28:9And when they saw Him, they worshiped; but some doubted.— Matthew 28:17
>>522530198If you're in Heaven it's only because you chose to stick to goodness. You still have free will to sin, but you just don't.
>>522530804So once you are in heaven could you possibly still sin?
>>522530075First time you've heard of it in this life.>“From an inconceivable beginning comes the wandering-on. A beginning point is not discernible, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. What do you think, monks? Which is greater, the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time—crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing—or the water in the four great oceans?”>“As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the tears we have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time—crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing—not the water in the four great oceans.”>"Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me.https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN15_3.html
>fairy tale boogeyman torture chamber for simply being a bad human>also le god dealt your hand from the very start and you cant actually sway your destiny cuz (((gods plan)))I wish all christcucks a collective recovery to their cult level psycosis
>>522531101If you get in there is because you won't.
>>522530198There is sin in heaven. Where do you think Satan and the demons came from? They are former angels that willfully renounced their relationship with Jehovah God to seek out their own ambitions.
>>522513626>Hell was made up by a jew in a play named Dante's infernoNO mention of Hell exists in bible torah or quran>HONKThe goyim know>All 3 jewish books named above also state there is no possibility of suffering after deathOy vey
>>522530258Luke 16:23. The rich man and Lazarus.The Story of Lazarus is METAPHORICAL. It is not literal. There was no one living after death before Jesus.>(Colossians 1:18) .... He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things;>(Revelation 1:5) and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “The firstborn from the dead,” ...Jesus is the firstborn from the dead. What that means is that he's the first to be resurrected and STAY ALIVE forever.>(John 3:13) Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.>(Acts 2:34) Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand,No man has been resurrected, stayed alive forever, and gone to heaven before Jesus. Not even King David himself. By the time Paul quotes up there in Acts he says David is still in his grave. So it couldn't be David who ascended to heaven.
>>522531516
>>522530258>>522531594>(Luke 11:52) “Woe to YOU who are versed in the Law, because YOU took away the key of knowledge; YOU yourselves did not go in, and those going in YOU hindered!”>(Malachi 2:7) For the lips of a priest are the ones that should keep knowledge, and [the] law is what people should seek from his mouth; for he is the messenger of Jehovah of armies.Jesus up above was talking about the Pharisees. It was their job to "feed" the people knowledge and the law of Jehovah to the people. Instead, they locked the commoners out of having such knowledge. Once Jesus died those keys were taken from the Pharisees(Rich man) and given to the Apostles and Paul.(Lazarus). We know this is a parable because the rich man asked Abraham for a drop of water to cool him from fire.The Rich man also said:>Luke 16:19-31... But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.’ Then he said, ‘No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’”It's a parable about how the Pharisees ignore the Prophets about the coming of Jesus and his resurrection. Then when Jesus was resurrected they still resisted and refused to believe. If they wouldn't believe the prophets about Jesus resurrection then they won't believe Jesus when he comes back from the dead. The parable is a middle finger to the Pharisees.
>>522530198Yes. The desire for evil is indemic to the human nature. We will have perfected ressurection bodies which are non-sexual, don't hunger or thirst and are possibly indestructible. We will also live with full knowledge of God and so, we will have no desire to sin because it will be beyond our nature. We can't know what this is like because we are born into and steeped in a perpetually and perfectly sinful world, designed by the ruler of this world (who is not God) to keep us buried over our heads until death.
>>522531516>>522531629>Hell was made up by a jew in a play named Dante's infernoNO mention of Hell exists in bible torah or quran>HONKThe goyim know>All 3 jewish books named above also state there is no possibility of suffering after deathOy vey
>>522530258There's also a lot of evidence to suggest that the "Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus" wasn't part of the original bible but was added in the middle 300's AD by the Romans. This was part of the attempt to win over the Pagans by including a bunch of Pagan stuff and calling it Christian. Don't ask me what I think about Christmas and Easter, specially if you're Christian and like these Holidays. You're better off not knowing.
>>522530075>>522531184Ultimately, even if you make it to heaven, if your mind still harbors greed, hatred, and delusion, then you'll experience suffering.Even if you don't make it to heaven, but your mind has totally abandoned greed, hatred, and delusion, then you cannot suffer - your mind becomes incapable of harming itself no matter what happens.>“Monks, there are these three roots of what is unskillful. Which three? Greed is a root of what is unskillful, aversion is a root of what is unskillful, delusion is a root of what is unskillful.>...>“A person like this—his mind overcome with evil, unskillful qualities born of greed… born of aversion… born of delusion, his mind consumed—dwells in suffering right in the here & now—feeling threatened, turbulent, feverish—and at the break-up of the body, after death, can expect a bad destination.>“Now, there are these three roots of what is skillful. Which three? Lack of greed is a root of what is skillful, lack of aversion is a root of what is skillful, lack of delusion is a root of what is skillful.>“In a person like this, evil, unskillful qualities born of greed… born of aversion… born of delusion have been abandoned, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. He dwells in ease right in the here & now—feeling unthreatened, placid, unfeverish—and is unbound right in the here & now.https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN3_70.html>“Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely into pieces with a two-handled saw, he among you who would let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding."https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN21.html
>>522513626None of that nonsense is real, it's a fake and gay inter-dimensional threat to turn you into a good goy.
>>522530198sin is empowered by death, namely the fear of death. and while divine love casts out fear in this life, there is no death in heaven, and all those in eternity are united with Christ Jesus, who among other things is humble in heart, so the iniquity of Heylel (the shinning yelling light bearer that fell corrupted for the iniquity that was found in him because of [his navel gazing]) is not a risk for those in paradise, purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ. tribulation does a preparation work in the soul, so don't squirm if Our Heavenly Father allows you to be tried.
>>522532667Agreed but the damage that the doctrine of hell has created is still there.
>>522513626You are an immense faggot for trying to get "service time" posting on /pol/ to pad up the monthly report of "hours spent witnessing" you are required to send to your chomo masonic Governing Body at the Watchtower (lmao could you get any more Masonic than naming your religion "The Watchtower Society"). You could be sitting at a cuck table at your local mall but instead you are here forever just like you will be in hell forever.JWs are non-Christian heretics with absolute brainlet tier theology who deserve every one of the infinite seconds you will spend in hell.
>>522513626You're not allowed to be exposed to conflicting ideas, go back to your echo chamber
>>522533910>>522534088
>>522533910maybe, but many of them leave and find the grace and mercy in trusting Jesus, and not their works or tradition, so bear in mind that no one deserves mercy, that's why it's mercy, but God, who is rich in love, beckons all to come, taste and see, that He is good, and believe and know that Jesus Christ is the Living God who can set anyone free from all sin, shame, guilt, trauma, addiction, bitterness, fear and, most of all, from death - even the lad earnestly echoing bent ritual and checking boxes. because many in cults and heresies (looking at any Cath-anon who drinks blindly from the vatican's broken cistern) come out of darkness in to the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
>>522535625>James 2:26 - Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.>James 2:22 -You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected>James 2:24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone.>Romans 2:13 - For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous.>James 1:22 - However, become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning.>(James 2:19) You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.>(Matthew 8:29) And, look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?”Abraham "wasn't considered right" before God. He was already counted as righteous but his faith in God was perfected by his deeds. It is DEMONSTRATIONS and DEEDS of faith that strengthen and perfect your faith. Same as how you BELIEVE that hitting the gym is salvation to the body but if you don't DEMONSTRATE and don't PRACTICE that belief it is nothing. You will be weak in body. Your faith without demonstrations and practice will be weakened in times of tribulation and confrontation. Look at the demons up above. They believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that faith in him saves. Yet why are they still counted as demons? Because their works are anti-Christ while believe IN Christ."Works" in the Bible is not charity. It is demonstrations or proof of genuine faith or actions motivated by faith. Not good deeds of charity otherwise Ellen Degenerate would be saved by her good deeds.
>>522536139believing in the Man, Jesus Christ the Lord is not enough. the Bible says that "if you confess with your mouth (the more of that being: "profess with your life") that Jesus Christ is Lord AND believe in your heart (heart meaning from the place of your fervent desire) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Demons do not believe in their heart (with their desire, and joy) that Christ Jesus raised Himself up by the power of His endless life, as Scripture says. Demons believe and are terrified. And moreover, mercy was not offered to fallen angels, but to mankind God shows mercy.
>>522534529> Imagine being Jew> Except no shekels, just a poor> And no holidays> And room temperature IQ> Waste weekends doing cuck walks around the neighborhood 'witnessing' > Only job at bank you qualify for is teller, too dumb to into math because you aren't allowed to go to college so try finance> Only job in financial district you can get is window washer because brain too smooth> Fall off scaffolding because exhausted from cuck walking the neighborhood B4 work to make serbice quota, can't into blood transfusion, die needlessly > That feeling when you are a Jewhovah's witness
>>522514241Are you one of the 144,00 with the high score to the watchtower so you get to be in heaven while the rest of us evaporate ?Whats the second death ?
>>522537068There's no point trying to argue with this fag, he will endlessly quote you cherry picked snippets from their cucked mistranslation of the Bible, he's just too lazy to go door to door so tries to meet his quota of service online
>>522536516You still need works. Faith without works is death. If you have faith in Jesus sacrifice but no works to back up that faith then you are not saved.
>>522537068>Are you one of the 144,00 with the high score to the watchtower so you get to be in heaven while the rest of us evaporate ?No, I'm part of the Great Crowd that will inherit the earth. >Whats the second death ?Answered >>522528614
>>522537637>All the cults that splintered from protestantism end up finding some things that are actually true and part of the 1 true Catholic faith >You guys also realized you're supposed to have an authority structure in place Interesting How do you know you have the correct authority structure and how do you know what the correct canon of scripture is
>>522537637Works include building and maintaining a Christian Civilization or just being a good person; being a Christian doctor, engineer, teacher, soldier - not cuck walking around the neighborhood trying to proselytize people who have already found Jesus.Enjoy hell faggot!
>>522537933You can always count on protestants to act like complete demons and then gloat about their free ticket to heaven based on their delusion of authoritative interpretation of a false canon of scripture You're not even Christian
>>52253783741 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”Wow cool, also while I'm at it, >>522537637whats the most important of these 3 ?A)FaithB)Works/ActsC)Love
>>522536593>Jehova's Witnesses>Seventh-Day Adventists>MormonsWho is the true schizo king? Compare&contrast
>>522537873>How do you know you have the correct authority structureIt's based on the 1st century Christians.
>>522538193>It's based on the 1st century Christians.Name them
>>5225381307th day are just OT literalist retards who don't realize Christ fulfills the law and brings its continuation, their heart is in the right place but you know,whereas the other 2 are just 19th century "ACTUALLY GOD REVEALED THE TRUE INSPIRED WORD AND MESSAGE ONLY NOW".
>>522537873The Bible already had an established canon before the Catholic and Protestant churches came along.>OTJewish tradition credits Ezra with beginning the compiling and cataloging of the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures, and it says that this was completed by Nehemiah. Ezra was certainly well equipped for such a work, being one of the inspired Bible writers himself as well as a priest, scholar, and official copyist of sacred writings. (Ezra 7:1-11)>“We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time. Of these, five are the books of Moses, comprising the laws and the traditional hisstory from the birth of man down to the death of the lawgiver. . . . From the death of Moses until Artaxerxes, who succeeded Xerxes as king of Persia, the prophets subsequent to Moses wrote the history of the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.” - The Jewish historian Josephus, in answering opponents in his work Against Apion, around 100 CE (I, 38-40 )>NTIn the first century C.E., letters from Paul, James, Peter, John, Jude, and the governing body in Jerusalem contributed to the growth and the preservation of the unity and cleanness of the Christian congregation.—Ac 15:22-31; 16:4, 5; 2Co 7:8, 9; 10:8-11; 2Co 3:7; Ac 28:21; 2Th 2:2; Heb 13:22. All those were compiled.The oldest known reference to the NT Bible canon is the Muratorian Fragment which dates back to 170-200 CE. The Fragment mentions a non-Biblical book, the Shepherd, and states that a man named Hermas wrote it “very recently, in our times, in the city of Rome.” Scholars date the final writing of Hermas’ Shepherd between 140 and 155 C.E.The RCC didn't compile the Bible. God compiled it himself.
>>522537873>>522538334The Tosefta, a written collection of oral laws that was completed by about 300 C.E., says with regard to Christian writings that were burned on the Sabbath:>“The books of the Evangelists and the books of the minim[thought to be Jewish Christians] they do not save from a fire. But they are allowed to burn where they are, they and the references to the Divine Name which are in them.”This same source quotes Rabbi Yosé the Galilean, who lived at the beginning of the second century C.E., as saying that on other days of the week,>“one cuts out the references to the Divine Name which are in them [understood to refer to the Christian writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns.”The Jews admitted that the Jewish Christian not only had their own books between the 1st and 2nd century but those books also had Gods name in it at the time. The Bible was done and collected by the 1st century.
>>522536516won't argue with that. a person bound to Jesus needs good works of love to God and to others, like a body needs air.but the Bible calls us to strive to enter His Rest. there heresies that you are under are manifold, mostly denying that Jesus Christ is the Eternal God, co-existent with the Father, God Most High. and that is denying the Son as orthodoxy in Cath, Ortho and Prot all declare in every Year of Our Lord until forever.but in practice, the more painful heresy, painful because it strikes your soul daily, is that you do not believe you are going to heaven, but rather are some second-class "believer" that will remain forever on earth, while some super-JWs of about 150,000 will be the special chooooosen and actually get to heaven. what a tragedy. and also a blasphemy against the blood of Jesus and the power of the Risen Christ to bring you to where He is, forever, which is His promise to all who hold fast in believing (and also in obeying, given that obedience to Jesus is the Way Christanons abide in His love)
>>522538130I'm not super well versed but SDA seem like actual schizos, JW seem like they just sucker in well meaning lonely people that don't know anything about religion, and Mormons actually seem pretty cool but kinda emotional
>>522538408this was response for this post>>522537637
>>522538334>God compiled it himself.Ahh, so you just picked the one that you liked, which happened to be literally stolen from the protestants, just like every protestant splinter cult, how original
>>522538408>but rather are some second-class "believer" that will remain forever on earth,What's wrong with that? Pic related
Imagine being white and believing this stuff, you are no better than sandniggers and their stupid beliefs.
>>522538508I just provided evidence of the Bible canon >>522538334 >>522538398
>>522538716>Different canon lists were floating around and I decided based on my arbitrary parameters that I think this one is the real one And who told you that's how it works, again?
>>522537933>not cuck walking around the neighborhood trying to proselytize people who have already found Jesus.Christ Jesus primary command is:>(Matthew 28:19) Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,>(Acts 1:8) but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·dea and Sa·mari·a and to the most distant part of the earth.”>(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,>Matthew 24:14-And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.>Mark 13:10-Also, in all the nations, the good news has to be preached first.>(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house.Our job is to give people Good News and teaching them accurate knowledge. Pic related is what is to come.
>>522538082I literally just gave the definition of good works from the Catacheism of the Catholic Church. The prots are technically right but are autistic shrieking faggots about it because real faith is always going to produce good works which is the Catholic position, JWs just latch onto this because they are chasing dopamine from virtue signaling competitions of who can do the most cuck walking around the neighborhood, to them if you don't cuck walk and write reports about your cuck walking and send them to the masonic pedophiles who run their religion then you're not doing it right. JWs protect kid rapists and are going to hell
>>522538841The 1st century Christians and the leftover Jews had the canon already. Nobody made constant articles of established canon books because they were so well known Nobody questioned them. People just memorized them. Thanks to also surviving manuscripts, Scrolls and papyri fragments we already know the canon.
>>522539142Most people go to hell and you're not helping JW are in error but mocking people, especially people in a doomsday cult type of environment isn't helping, and if you don't care about helping and only want to dunk on people then get out of here and go reconcile yourself to God and amend your life This stuff isn't a joke
>>522539328>The 1st century Christians and the leftover Jews The jews that helped kill Christ have authority over what the Church teaches? I agree that we didn't need a canonized list for centuries but there is disagreement, not just between your canon and mine, but also people such as the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox
>>522539486Didn't mean to green text this post after my question mark
>>522538417Mormons believe that "Elohim" started out like you or I on a far off planet named kolob (which also incidentally is hte planet closest to heaven), born to unknown parents as a mortal, but achieved apotheosis through whatever means, and how we are his literal spiritual children sired with infinite spiritual wives (which they claim Jesus Christ is the first, and Lucifer his younger brother, and by extension both of them our brothers).Then their whole "plan of salvation" was Elohim getting all his kids together to explain how Earth/Creation was gonna be a thing, and they all voted for how to handle it, Christ with Free will and Lucifer binding wills or some such shit. Lucifer loses the vote and is mad so he becomes the devil.cont.
>>522539653Which then brings us to where we are, and how in this Plan, that you choose to incarnate on earth (you can stay with elohim if you want, and why wouldn't you when if you fail you burn in the lake of fire forever?), but also the whole point is to become "as God", which is what their whole temple system is about (3 layers of heaven, level 1 you deny their teaching but you dont deny the holy spirit, level 2 you are a mormon and you show up to their churches and are righteous enough, and level 3 you're super righteous because you did all the temple ordinances like eternally sealing yourself to your family forever in heaven, and in level 3 theres 3 tiers of that with the highest being that you become like God and basically do in your new creation what happened here, and back in the day under the first 5 prophets you had to have atleast 2 wives to even be considered for EXALTATION as they call it, and while they say monogamy is their stance, they will still do shit like sealing a widow to a man already married and sealed).But for the rest of the wicked and the like ? They get to go to a purgatory where theyre given the opportunity to learn the true mormon doctrines so that they can technically still reach heaven lower level 1. And they have heavenly Mother.TLDR just another coat of paint for team "As gods" instead of the correct "Made in the image of God" 6000 year existential war
>>522538652the reason why heaven is the place to be is because God dwells there. think of a best friends house. it might be a cool house, but it is nothing compared to when he's there. >inB4 /pol/acks have no friendsif someone is "saved" but not for nearness to Father God, that is not saved.and just so you can see in scripture that the true promise of God, through what Jesus Christ accomplished already, is 10,000 x 10,000 people (rough numbers, probably) in heaven worshiping God Almighty and the Lamb is clear in Revelation 7-17>“After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,”Revelation 7:9 ...>““Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.”Revelation 7:15 the promise of being with Jesus, who is the delight of heaven, is the promise of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (lit: the Good News of Peace with God through Jesus Christ)
>>522539684Yeah I'm more familiar with them than the other 2, they seem like the more pleasant ones and less "head in the sand", so I'm a little more optimistic about them than the others
>>522539486>The jews that helped kill Christ have authority over what the Church teaches?Yes because they were originally entrusted with guarding the OT. >Romans 3:1-2 - What, then, is the superiority of the Jew, or what is the benefit of the circumcision? 2A great deal in every way. First of all, because they were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God.
>>522539876Humans are not meant to go to heaven. They were meant to stay here on earth forever.>(Isaiah 45:18) For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.>(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.>(Psalm 115:16) As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong, But the earth he has given to the sons of men.>(Proverbs 2:21) For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it.>(Matthew 5:5) “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.>(Psalm 25:13) His own soul will lodge in goodness itself, And his own offspring will take possession of the earth.>(Psalm 37:11) But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.>(Matthew 6:9-10) “YOU must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, ALSO UPON EARTH.>(Jeremiah 27:5) ‘I myself have made the earth, mankind and the beasts that are upon the surface of the earth by my great power and by my stretched-out arm; and I have given it to whom it has proved right in my eyes.>(Acts 17:26) And he made out of one [man] every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of the dwelling of [men],
>>522539970>Yes because they were originally entrusted with guarding the OT.The first Christians were jews and had the new covenant Those jews were the first bishops and have authority over the Church, not the jews that killed God and got the most basic aspect of the truth incorrect
>>522513626Yeah I need that 2nd kind of hell, no waaaay I'm getting ressurected, fuck off
>>522539936I m usually optimistic however if you want to flame like really you are only allowed to do so if you are family or friends my wobbly thing.
>>522539936Nah alot of shit they do is gross, and theyre ironically basically the "Secret Combination" (Satans plan) in how they operate.They are both diet freemason and a type of freemason slave race, and all the ex mormon testimonies have their version of being gaslight / cult controlled. It looks fucking great from the outside and they're good to debate the bible and theologian concepts of higher tiers with, sadly lmao.
>>522540105all blessed verses, but we'll just be talking in circles. after Jesus reigns on the earth for 1,000 years, and the final act removing Satan forever is done, God Almighty is bringing His Throne to a New united Earth and Heaven, and Eden of old cannot compare glory of the new that will greatly surpass.
>>522539105The absolute state of Cuckwitnesses being too smooth brained to understand Matt 28:19 is a collective directive, not an individual mandate, that is best accomplished by the development of a complex civilization based on the division of labor, and they have to leach off Christian Civilization to even be able to 'spread good news' which is then only possible by cuckwalking™ door-to-door in accordance with the instructions dictated by their pharisaical pedophile leadership.Enjoy hell you bitchmade cuckwalker!>>522539385Bitch this is 4chan not a church foyer, fuck off with your sanctimony. And most people don't go to hell, even though they certainly deserve it, because God is more merciful than you can even possibly imagine, and those that end up in hell absolutely have it coming and know exactly what they are choosing. I will dunk on any Cuckwitnesses on /pol/ because they have no business being here whatsoever. It's like trying to proselytize at a casino or a night club
>>522540722compare to*the end of the matter is by the blood of Jesus Christ, anon can be freely forgiven, and is welcome into the adoption of sonship to Almighty God the Father, and if sons, than co-heirs with Christ. And on this side of eternity, we labor, with joy, and from the place of resting in the power of the cross to break every chain on the soul man. strive to enter His rest that He purchased on the cross. re-read Romans 6. Christanon, if you have made that true confession of faith than you have co-died with Christ, and were co-buried with Him and co-entombed with Him, and are co-raised with Him (that's baptism) and are (in the spirit) co-risen with Him and more over are co-seated with Him. because our life is hidden with Christ in God. And He will return to judge (graciously) all who belong to Him by faith (evidenced by our good works), but more than all the indescribably, unthinkable eternal rewards (no mind has seen, nor ear has heard the marvelous things God has prepared for us), the great prize is Jesus, to be with Him where He is, to see Him as He is. Jesus said, "Don't let you heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in me. In My Father's house there are many mansions ... and I go to prepare a place for you."and so believe, commands the Lord Christ whom we serve.
>>522540473>522540473▶Na we only want to sacrifce that to berlin to people that are ultimately really idiotic. I really love being around people, esp around those from berlin but then again i would make you eat your own dick.
>>522521343>We are Man. Just pure organic earth beings. We are not spirit creatures wearing meat costumes. Nothing flies out when we die.I would expect that materialist horseshit from a reddit atheist, not from someone who would profess to worship a higher power.
>>522524651It is unfair, because this world is so dysfunctional and entropic that it inspires hatred and rewards evil while punishing love and righteousness. Why is it fair that the wealthiest and most powerful people, who want for nothing, are also the most evil and hateful people while someone like Jeshua was absolutely destitute?Why is it that evil people have everything handed to them on a silver platter while good people face hardship, and ask questions to gain insight and help themselves, but they're only really answered with silence? Why do a bunch of retards have to do everything while the higher orders get to screw around for eternity?
>>522513626Hell is purification through fire. There, evil and sin are destroyed forever. No one is born evil; if all that evil is removed, then that person is purified. However, the person they once were and their former (evil) identity are destroyed without a trace.
>>522513626You will never be a real Christian. You have no authentic faith, you have no genuine scripture, you have no true salvation. You are a deluded cultist twisted by Watchtower propaganda and false prophecies into a crude mockery of Christ's Divine perfection.All the "validation" you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back, actual believers mock you. "Worldly people" are disgusted and ashamed of you, your "friends" in the congregation laugh at your lack of service behind closed doors.True Christians can smell your apostasy from a mile away. They can see that you're not one of them, that you're a fraud, an outsider. Even when you manage to proselytize some vulnerable soul, they can tell you're not legitimate. And even if you do convert someone, it won't make you a real Christian.You'll never be saved. You mutilate the Bible with your twisted interpretations, you inject your doctrine with endless revisions every day and tell yourself it's going to be okay, but deep inside you feel the judgment creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.Eventually it'll be too much to bear—you'll knock on one last door while cuckwalking ™, spout one last lie, give up, and plunge into the cold abyss of eternal damnation. Real Christians will find you in the afterlife, happy and relieved that they never fell for your deceptions. They'll bury your false religion with a headstone marked with your failed prophecies, and every saint for the rest of eternity will know a heretic is buried there. Your doctrines will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a cult that is unmistakably fraudulent.This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
>>522540936>And most people don't go to hell based on what makes me feel good and my personal theological opinion I trust the Early Church Fathers more than you You act careless, you don't fear God and you don't work out your salvation with fear and trembling That's why you treat this all as a joke
I'm sorry guys, but I have to agree with OP. Why would a loving God permanently punish people FOR ETERNITY in a horrific, fiery inferno? And then never, ever allow them redemption? How long does punishment need to last before redemption is allowed? If redemption is never on the table, then why keep them alive? Just obliterate them from existence. There is no reason whatsoever for Jehovah to keep someone alive, if their only purpose is to suffer. That's disgusting and a sign of an evil, hateful god.
>>522542804You can't just twist divine revelation to make you feel better Either it's true or you go do something else, simple as
>>522542229No you have main character syndrome and like to feel special and the WT seeks out people like that because it makes service hours go up.It is THE WILL of God that all men shall be saved. "Who will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth." KJV 1Tim. 2:4 "He doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" Dan. 4:35. Who can resist a being of Almighty power? What God wills to take place, must take place. He wills the salvation of all men because it is right. A God of purity cannot desire endless sin and rebellion. If he wills the salvation of all men, he wills all the means by which it shall be accomplished; it must therefore take place.There are serious consequences for sin, and a small minority might choose hell for all eternity.So though you deserve to go to hell for being an Arian faggot, God has mercy and recognizes "infinite ignorance" so there is hope for you yet cuckwalker
>>522542804You go to hell when you are dead though.
>>522542205>You'll never be saved.>There is no turning back.get you behind me satanboti much rather all genuine Christanons pray for OP, that he finds grace, rather than reviling him with demonic prophecies of damnation, yikes. there is always hope for the lost.and look to yourself, anon. you're not be wrong, in general, about the JW cult, and you may nit be wrong in specifics about OP, except the greentext i quote you above, you are very wrong. take heed to your own soul if that cursing at the lost is the overflow of your heart.
>>522522940>Every time I hear an atheist make the argument that says, "Love me or I'll torture you forever" is psychotic and insane and why would you worship something like that I agree with themYeah same. We only get 80, plus or minus 20 years on this earth to figure things out. That's not much time at all in the grand scheme or things. And a lot of that time is taken up with just working and trying to survive. Most people don't have time to sit around contemplating theology or ethics.If God's gonna torture you for ETERNITY for believing the wrong things or not living a sufficiently good life that seems wildly disproportionate and unjust to me.If I were God I'd give people more chances, like a few reincarnations at least.Or set things up Buddhist style - people can stay in this lower realm sinning over and over, making themselves miserable. If and when they're ready to repent and choose a better path they can reach nirvana/heaven any time. If they choose to stay in this lower realm sinning for eternity it's their own fault.St. Augustin recognized eternal torture was kind of fucked up and the best answer he could come up with was "mortals can't understand the mind of God... we just have to trust that it's just because God said so..."Pretty disappointing for Christianity's "best thinker" if you ask me
>>522542946I'm not JW, I have literally been debating with the guy this entire thread >Here's my personal interpretation of scripture Nobody cares, although I will grant you that Invincible Ignorance technically exists but the number of people that would qualify for that is small, as you would need to make serious effort to live by natural law/ conscience
>>522542229>Trusts a self-appointed "Governing Body" of anti-civilization pedophile protectors, who just retconned the Bible to fit their beliefs that contradict 2000 years of beautiful tradition, to tell him what he should believe Opinions discarded
>>522542937Then why does God expect our worship if he doesn't at least try to help us understand his methods? Or is it just a sick game?
>>522513626You are splitting hairs. Jesus was unequivocal in his warnings about hell. Just because he used language they could understand and drew from their mistaken concepts of the “afterlife”, doesn’t mean He’ll isnt real. Whatever “hell” is, Jesus vehemently warns against going there and describes it as a place of suffering and eternal torment.
>>522543591You’re demonstrating why you should go to Hell and why you deserve to go. You’re committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, declaring your creator and the One True God to be evil. This is akin to trying to dethrone and destroy the one thing gluing the whole universe together. If God listened to your lies, we would all die. Everything would cease to exist as YOU would be god, instead of God himself. You are a usurper, as was I. Hell is what we deserve but God provided for our salvation. I strongly advise that you stop blaspheming the Holy Spirit before it is quite literally too late to save your corrupted soul.
>>522543515I'm not the JW, try learning how to read >>522543591You don't understand what we're even talking about, you need to start at learning the basics, otherwise you're just jumping to conclusions and making assumptions >>522543652Protestants and Leftists need a contest over which memes have the biggest walls of text that nobody's gonna read
>>522513626imagine being God, in perfect peace, and then saying "You know what? I want to engineer conscious beings into weak and flawed forms, then judge them." If Abrahamic religions were true, such gods deserve no worship.Consciousness should ALWAYS be sovereign. A conscious being should never have to bow to anything unless it is a consensual game.
>>522543807I am not blaspheming God. I am simply stating a fact that God condemns torture of any kind, no matter what justifications humans offer, even if they're tormenting an evil oppressive tyrant. Does not command the immediate death of someone who wishes harm upon his people? Tell me, when the jews escaped from Pharaoh, and Jehovah collapsed the red sea upon them, did he secretly keep Pharaoh alive and torture him in a fiery chamber for all eternity?
>>522543930>Here's how I, some guy on /pol/ would create the universe Fascinating
>>522541628That's what the Bible teaches>>522513671>>522542205Go redeem your gift cards somewhere else saar. >>522542804Blessed and bread-pilled. If, you, a sinner imperfect human can be that reasonable and wise how much more the ALMIGHTY, creator of the universe. >>522543086>If I were God I'd give people more chances, like a few reincarnations at least.That's the plan. >>522528614>>522543684>describes it as a place of suffering and eternal torment.Where?
>cites '2 Peter'opinion discarded
>>522544013Yeah, there's no need for conscious beings to go through any form of non consensual suffering.It's quite simple. But you can choose to keep replacing morality with a book.
>>522543591God is near to the humble, and their is help, but He resists the proud. It certainly helps any anon looking for God to have an abhorrent sense of their own sin. Most people need to be unburdened from their own self-right-ness. And then it's easier to hear the message of God's mercy. But it is a humble road, but it leads to glory. You can, however have some confidence that the diligent find the path to life, if they follow the signs that are clearly stated in Scripture, but most listen, but don't hear and make room for the Word in their heart (in the place of their inner desires) because we all like wandering animals want what we want (mainly because we're afraid and angry that we're going to die) and don't want God, maybe want His power and glory and wisdom, but not Him. So next time you talk to God, be honest, and ask Him for help to trust Him. The Bible says that it is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the glory of kings to search it out, so being on some part of a kingly search, anon, consider reading 1st Kings chapter 19 and read how God speaks, and how He assigns His men. If you are not a regular (daily) Bible reader, i highly and without reservation recommend the New Living Translation (very conversational, common language translation.)
God is Love, Rapture is a personal spiritual awakening, Heaven is life knowing Love, Hell is existence cut off from it and eventually swallowed up by Nihilism. Christ, Bhudda, Hitler, Odin, and many other incarnations of Love have attempted to illustrate these truths to us and oppose Nihilism. You too can carry this flame, if you choose, and hold back the night.End Times prophecy is nihilistic jewish death cult idealogy, and is anti human, antichrist, and anti love. Simple as.Quit sitting in Plato's cave. Quit waiting on the superman. Spread Love, and fight for Love. Hold back the night... it is dark and full of terrors, but all is not yet lost.
>>522543143I don't give a fuck if anyone cares about my opinions anon.The thing is that Christianity is the truth for many reasons, but the most important one is that it is the religion and spiritual framework most conducive to the propagation of civilization, I care more about that than my own Pascalian wager to hopefully get to heaven and avoid a possible hell. Dogma is merely an organizing principle and token of community to me, it certainly was important for building civilizations back in the day if for no other reason. If you want to trust that believing everything the RCC is literally true that is fine but it is still your opinion.I choose to believe that the historical Jesus was real, the gospels are an accurate account of His life, that he was both God and man, and that the Trinity is the true nature of God and that faith in Christ means trying to follow him, and He left us TWO commandments and some commentary on how to follow Him. I believe that this is spiritual minimum for everyone and if you want to condemn me for that go right the fuck ahead.For me it is personal with JWs, I was raped as a kid by the WT and I hate them. This faggot JW on Pol is a hypocrite for being here and I am here to call him out for being a cuck witness and anti-civilizational, not to have a Bible study with anyone. Nothing you say to him will change his mind.
>>522543807You didn't answer >>522543948You just responded with shaming and intimidation. If God is doing something that appears to be immoral and unjust I don't see the problem with wanting an explanation.And "because it's God" isn't a good answer.That lack of critical thinking leads to things like the Aztecs and their human sacrifices. "Don't ask questions. The gods demand it. It's good because the gods want it."Does God want slaves who don't think and are just cowed into submission from fear of hell? Is that righteousness? Or cowardice.
>>522543930and what else?in His eternal councils He decided to redeem a people to be an equally united bride for His eternally existent Son.as the Bible says: Jesus Christ was the Lamb Slain From the Foundation of the World.it gets real when you understand that the CROSS was Plan A.get on the narrow way now.
>>522527515> Satanśāṭān - in the Jewish Bible"Adversary" / "Accuser" / "Human opponent of supernatural entity" / "Testing people's faith"> Wōðanaz- Woden -"Tests warriors" / "Tests kings" / "Tests hospitality"; disguised / Grants "names" / "titles" after trials> Gog/Magog- Revelation 20:8 -"Those gathering for battle to surround camps of saints"" No, It was the protectors of pre-christian Rome.> Goyim/Ethnē- Revelation 20:3 & 20:8 -Viewed as "foreign peoples" / "Spiritually deceived" / "Corrupt forces aligned with Satan"> Essentially anything non-christian and we're not Scythian since we don't share Scythian DNA. > 666/616- Early scriptures -"Nero" / "Pagan Emperor oppressing jews" / "Empire where jews are oppressed"> Pharmakeia- Revelation 18:23 -Seductive power of "Wealth" / "Gods" / "Magic" / "Rituals" / "Traditions" / "Culture"> Essentially our societal cohesion, everything that binds our people together by branding the magic inside ourselves as evil.> 888- Alphabetic Numerology -"Yeshua" No.. it was "Apollo", the "Torchbearer" Each letter in numerology becomes "Alpha & Omega"> Sword of God- Revelation 19:15 -"Jews" / "Christians" won't use weapons, instead wrote "Apocalyptic scriptures" / "Songs" about our people.> Essentially Clown world propaganda, undermine unifying strengths of a people to overthrow society & claim it for themselves.> Beast- Revelation 13:18"Beast" = "Caesar" / "Babylon" = "Rome" - There's no Antichrist, only a 1st CE resistance text written under oppression.> DemonsHow christians described our European armies in their scriptures.> "Pharmakeia" = Magic- Germanic -Galdr: "Combat" / "Protection" / "Healing" Chanted & EngravedSeiðr: "Shaman magic"Berserk: "Rage trance"- Greek -Lyssa: "Ares rage possession"Dionysian Ekstasis: Ecstatic dance of divine intoxication- Celtic -Ríastard: bodily contortion in boiling rage
>>522544539>Does God want slaves who don't think and are just cowed into submission from fear of hell? Is that righteousness? Or cowardice.Precisely. That's the whole point of free will. Infact, you literally can't sign a contract under duress, because there's something influencing you. So how much more so is the spiritual contract between men and God?
>>522544540sounds arbitrary and unnecessary. Your god seems to like causing unnecessary problems.I'd reject it even if it were true.
>>522544539If you want a moral framework with more sophistication and deeper foundations than "Might is Right"; Jesus Christ is the wrong person to ask. Or anyone associated with abrahamic religions.
>>522543515>>522543827Sorry I thought it was the witness cuck.Yeah I am not a Universalist but damn near. I certainly think Catholics, Prots and Orthodox are all legitimate Christians. I think most people choose Christ in the moment of their death and are saved, but if you were a shitty person not following natural law and our God given conscious then you have a lot of purgatory, and no "treasures in heaven" just "straw" so there are real metaphysical consequences to sin and you can't just say the Magic words and all is fine like the Baptists and others let on. People like you will be like the brother of the prodigal son someday when you see how basically everyone chooses to be in heaven and that does require faith in Christ. Opinions, yes, but attack them for consistency and their metaphysical implications otherwise we are just all battling each others opinions.
>>522513626>just be a sinner to escape samsara and reach nirvana
>So there are two kinds of hellsTechnically there are no kinds of hells because it's all make believe.
>>522544782Gustavus Adolfus would have a nasty drink for you, anon. >Swedish Drink>Magdeburg MercyOur ancestors turned from death to life with joy, being freed from serving darkness in the dark. >Not going back to my own vomit like a dog.
>>522544539>>522544790>Does God want slaves who don't think and are just cowed into submission from fear of hell? Is that righteousness? Or cowardice.2 Timothy 1:7For God did not give us a spirit of cowardice, but one of power and of love and of soundness of mind.Romans 12:1-acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason.>(Deuteronomy 30:19) I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against YOU today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring,>(Joshua 24:15) Now if it is bad in YOUR eyes to serve Jehovah, choose for yourselves today whom YOU will serve..But as for me and my household, we shall serve Jehovah.”>1 Peter 2:16-Be as free people, using your freedom, not as a cover for doing wrong, but as slaves of God.>Galatians 5:1-For such freedom Christ set us free. Therefore, stand firm, and do not let yourselves be confined again in a yoke of slavery.
>>522545073i cracked history right in front of your eyes and theres nothing you can do about it.the jews have your balls in an iron grip through christianity and you wont even escape if you had the chance.
>>522544790>contract under duressYeah that's a good way of putting it.
>>522544461If the story of Christ inspires you to love, be kind, and seek a better future for those who come after us... does it really matter if he was "real" or not? That love and spirit is real to you, and can be made manifest through your expressions of love!To me, THAT is the definition of faith. I love you, Anon. Thanks for being here.
>>522544308>Divine revelation is wrong, just trust my opinion bro
>>522545193meh. 90 years ago there were some reasonable and fair dealings with jews. with any luck, i'll be a chaplain for the next similar enthusiastic attempt (to the death) to establish healthy White nations. don't get in my way, or you can camp with the gypsies and queers.
>>522545433>be jewish>commence bombing 100 refugee children and flooding america with immigrants>transfer my sins into a chicken>the chicken goes to hell instead of meShalom! don't question the divine revelation, goy
>>522545072Idk. Looks like she's in hell... a lot of people are, in clown world.Let's meme harder, love harder, and bring some hope back into the world! Don't give up!
>>522545452did you even read what i wrote? christianity is a jewish psy-op.satan and demons is a way to denounce any opposing faith/religion.all abrahamic religions work this way, nobody is innocent in the life of a christian.this is the same logic in islam too, you are damned unless you submit.we are the demonswe are satanwe are the magic userswe are the goyim "aligned with satan"its not fucking real, dude.
>>522513671You know, that’s real boring. Couldn’t God just make something for us to do while dead? Come on, there’s gotta be more to all of this shit.
>>522513626>Hell. There are two different words in Greek that were translated into Hell.>ΓέενναOr Gehenna is the name of a valley in Jerusalem. Historically it served mostly as a burial sight though the books in the Old Testament claim it was used to worship Moloch. However, no evidence of Child Sacrifice has been found in that valley. No bodies, living or dead, were burned there until the 10th Legion during the Jew Revolt cremated some of the dead there. This is the word used in the gospels. > ΤάρταροςTartarus in English. Tartarus refers to two things. First the lowest part of the underworld where the enemies of the gods were imprisoned and in later myths, those who committed the most heinous of crimes. The second use is a the name of an ancient primordial deity who rules over the place. Tartarus is only used in one of the books of Peter. These two are certainly two different places. In both cases however, we must address the reality that these books, even within the standard religious timeline did not exist until well after the Jewish revolt. Implying the significant possibility that they are pseudepigraphal, not written by those who are claimed to be the author and just fables written perhaps by a Greek speaking Jew or a Roman who wanted a Romanized version of Judaism (much like Mithraism was introduced as a Romanized version of Zoroastrianism), and allude to events that didn't occur until well after the alleged life of Jesus.
>>522545550>Completely strawmans my argument Wow congratulations on defeating an argument that nobody brought up
>>522545992You're the one who said that we cannot question divine revelation, so if some priest or leader says something, we have no place to say anything.
>>522513626Seems awfully chilly compared to what was described.
>>522513626>The word "hell" is not Biblical. Its old English but goes back to old Germanic/Dutch HEL.Dutch is a modern Germanic language.>It's where we get the words Cellar, Hall, Hull of a ship, Conceal, and Helmet. Cellar is latin from Cellarium.
>>522546027You're acting in bad faith, you're not stupid enough to actually think that's what I was saying
Reality of hell: hell as a place of punishment is a memetic virus that sneaks into most religions
>>522545396I appreciate that anon, greatly. Thank you for the kind and wise words. Love you too bro.
>>522545844>Couldn’t God just make something for us to do while dead?Yeah wait. For what?>Come on, there’s gotta be more to all of this shit.There is. There is the resurrection. >>522528614That's the real salvation. To be brought back to life on a paradise earth >>522540105
>>522545433I did not ask you to trust me.I am going by what is good and no fire of hell will scare me from it.
>>522544539I didn’t answer your questions because it’s nonsense. Find me scripture that says God is against all forms of “torture”, for starters. Also your entire post is blasphemous.
>>522513626Unfortunately, America has been a fertile breeding ground for cults. JW, LDS, SDA, Christian Science, Scientology, Nation of Islam, Black Hebrew Israelites, and many others were spawned right here in the good ol’ US of A.
>>522546144>Divine revelation is wrong, just trust my opinion broMaybe it IS wrong, because the definition pushed by men corrupted it? Maybe out of 5000 religions, someone might have gotten mixed up and sent the wrong message?
>>522546161>I am going by what is goodWhat is good and what is evil
>>522546157Yeah but what about all of those planets God made. Why just the Earth? Is there more or is that it?
>>522545651i did. i thought you meant to at someone else. not of that (except the celtic one) was new to me. my ancestors and precious to me, and i would rather living in a non-Christian White nation than a Christian non-White nation, because i love my race.but Jesus is still Lord. and i would put pastors and priests in prison for advocating for non-White immigration, or sanctioning race-mixing, and execute some that are the most grievous "shabbos goyim"but Jesus is still my Lord. sorry genuine Christianity isn't lived out loud to your hearing.but that is one of the great ironies of life, that through weak and broken people, God's truth is carried, and I love that the tradition of my ancestors for the last 1,500 years was to declare to themselves and the world.Jesus is Lord. but i enjoy the little pre-Christian traditions that remain. and i am totally confortable with the record that pre-Christian traditions are usually worshipping demons, demons are real. it must have sucked to be on that team of terror. like so many browns are still. it's turbo bizarre that you would want to go back. i am inheriting 1,500 years of my ancestors traditions, and maybe earlier. you are exhuming a foul grave. choose life and light. (much as i'd rather live under the stars in the mist, today is the day of salvation, and Christ Jesus is beside me DREAD WARRIOR)
>>522546170Look at anytime Jehovah delved out punishment. Show me a single time he ever kept someone alive to torture them for eternity. whenever he declared that an enemy of his people was to die, did he not command their immediate destruction? Did he ever allow them to take slaves and then torture them forever? Infact, IIRC, slaves who were taken were to be treated very well. A man who mistreated his slaves could be killed for it.
>>522546212That's why we have entire branches of knowledge called history and theology for you to examine whenever you feel like checking in on what we've been doing this whole time
>>522545847I just asked ChatJeetPT. It says the Bible didn't have a well formulated doctrine of hell and this is what followed:>Early Church (2nd–4th Century)>Diverging Views>Early Christian writers disagreed:>1. Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT)>Tertullian: vivid descriptions of the damned suffering eternally.>Lactantius: also supports eternal fire.>2. Annihilationism>Arnobius: the wicked will cease to exist rather than suffer forever.>3. Universalism>Origen (3rd c.): apokatastasis — all rational beings eventually restored to God.>Suffering is remedial, not eternal.>Very important:>Before Augustine, eternal torment was not the dominant view; it coexisted among several options.>Augustine (5th Century) — The Turning Point>Augustine becomes the most influential architect of Western Christian doctrine of hell.>He argued:>Punishment must be eternal since the soul is immortal.>Hell is literal, conscious, and everlasting.>Universalism must be rejected.>Augustine’s enormous theological authority meant his view became standard in the Latin West.
>>522546257Freedom is Good.Slavery of Conscious beings is evil.
>>522546381How do you know that
>>522546412Because I am God and I am Good.
>>522546314>proof read ya dang posts oh well. gute nacht ya'll>inB4 y'all
>>522545847So the modern Christian idea of hell is basically this Augustin guy's opinion.Was he divinely inspired? Are his writings canon? I don't think so
>>522546448It's okay, you were defending a losing position, there was no other outcome
>>522546348Not a single branch of history or theology properly explains the idea of why torture is necessary.
>>522546528>t. Has never investigated theology or its history
>>522546502What? You're going to say 'because God'.I'm not an Atheist. I just believe that every conscious being , including myself, is a God.An Eternally Existing God. Separate. So I can say 'God' too. There's nothing inherent to moral intuition which necessitates it to be Abrahamic god.
>>522546528It is explained here >>522546151Memetics explains it. Read the selfish gene
>>522546268>Why just the Earth? Is there more or is that it?This is what the Bible teaches (Isaiah 45:18) For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.>(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.>(Psalm 115:16) As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong, But the earth he has given to the sons of men.Earth is mankind's primary home. Humans were not meant to leave it. That's why heaven is not salvation. Earth is. It's possible Jehovah had future plans for humanity before Adam, Eve, and Satan ruined everything. After the thousand year reign we will find out. Maybe he has other planets for us to colonize.
>>522546596>I just believe that every conscious being , including myself, is a God.And you know this how?
>>522546582Then by all means, let's hear the reasoning.
>>522546314jesus never existed, theres no proof of him existing.he was never lord of anything, becoming lord is a title, titles given from great acts, people who amount to immense greatness.christianity is against seeking these aspects out because its a matter of greed, because its a roman state religion that worked in such fashion."to keep the peasant at bay", no need to bring out the circus anymore to aleviate the collective social anxiety in the midst of social pressure.christianity has never been genuine, it adopted the 1 god system from plato, then they adopted hellenic slop, then roman, then germanic.its a never ending co-copting sphere that absorbs the social outcry, hence why its lgbtq today.
>>522513626Hel was first a goddess. I'm guessing that it's Saturn since the abode of the dead where the departed souls go is Saturn. Pluto/Hades/Dis is Osiris which is Saturn. Jesus spent 3 days in the belly of a fish and this is probably Saturn as well since a fish represents the halo of Saturn. The navel of the world is at Saturn. Jesus must've been resurrected from there and so were the other people.
>>522546170>Asking questions is blasphemous. God gave you reason but He doesn't want you to think for yourself. Just submit. Stop asking questions. Or you'll be tortured. Great umm... religion you got there. Totally doesn't sound like an abusive cult
>>522546662In the beginning... Lol, this is something that would need to be covered over the course of a lecture, which you can find better qualified people than me on jewtube If you care, go investigate, it will be better than me posting essays on this thread
>>522546801>Lol, this is something that would need to be covered over the course of a lecture,Why can't you give any answer at all?
>>522546648It is one of two most moral ontologies which still allows for the forgetful play as I am doing right now on this Earth.Thw two most moral ontologies being Divine Solipsism and Ontological Polytheism.I choose to align with these ontologies because I will accept nothing less than freedom for all conscious beings. And no fire of Hell or temptation of pleasure will stray me from it. As for arguments. Divine Solipsism and Ontological Polytheism are the only philosophies which answer the problem of many minds.'Why am I me rather than you?'Nothing else answers this question besides these two ontologies. It's either I'm the only conscious being, or conscious beings are eternally existing separate Gods. All of our own realities.
>>522543051You're right I am sorry. I just don't want some impressionable, lonely anon to go to a Kingdom Hall and get love-bombed and think "oh there's no degeneracy here, so based and trad" and then they get sucked in and take themselves out of engaging with civilization productively, which is a goal best served by joining and earnestly participating in a mainstream Christian churches. OP is still a faggot.
>>522546325Correct. The Israelites were ordered to kill everyone. They were never commanded to torture, mutilate and rape their enemies. A good example is Sampson. When the Phillistines captured him they cauterized his eyes out blinding him. Then they kept him alive as a slave. After that they turned him into a sideshow at a festival for all to humiliate him. Nothing like that was ever done by the Israelites because God never ordered it.
>>522546827Because it requires context for you to understand our position Like I said, this is something that people give lectures and entire university classes on, if you care then go look up basic lecture videos online
>>522546170Here>>522513779
>>522546957You cannot give a stated position. You won't/can't answer the question. A position is required first anon. In reality you cannot answer the question because punishing hell is incompatible with logical thought or God
>>522546957>>522546801You need an entire lecture to explain why torture is a good thing, and why it doesn't make God a bloodthirsty monster? You know, for such a serious issue, you think it would be something relatively easy to explain, so it wouldn't needlessly fearmonger the masses.Unless, of course, that was the point.
>>522513626Hell is sealed off. The jewish Satanizt is Lying again. You may cease to exist upon death, free will and all, but smite the Sataniztz before you do so if you want in to "Heaven" or "Valhalla" on the wings of eagles in flight of the Valkyrie.
>>522544132This is faggot is a troll. A real JW would never say anything racist.I've caught this cunt saying racist stuff before and called him out on it.Fuck you and fuck the Watchtower Society
>>522546865>It's an idea that I like >As for arguments, here's something that isn't true Stop toiling with this nonsense and go look up St. Thomas Aquinas' 5 ways
>>5225136265. its all in your mind
>>522546904>take themselves out of engaging with civilization productivelyThat's based though. Especially if you don't get any pussy. If I don't get any pussy why should I be productive? NPNW
>>522547094
>>522547113What's your rebuttal to the 'many minds' problem?Can your religion answer it?
>>522547031>A position is required first anon.My position is the Catholic positionGo look it up, I'm not responding to you anymore, it's obvious you don't actually care, otherwise you would have just left to go look this up >>522547040>If u right then God bad What is good and what is evil >>522547194>Can your religion answer it?Yes, go look up what I already told you
>>522547113>>522547194I'd like to see you type out an attempt at answering the question of;"Why am I me rather than you?"not even nondualism answers it.
>>522513626Cool thanks, tell the rabi though, didn't ask about your constantly contradicting sub cult.
>>522547261You have been toiling towards a brick wall but the good news is that there is another way
>>522547243Anon I'll respect a person who says "I don't know" right now. I'll never respect a person who can't admit that at a basic level. This is a very rudimentary aspect of manhood, it's critical for you to understand this. Pretending to be Christian clearly can't teach you to be a man Btw, I have over 40 American university hours in Christian theology. I am sure you don't understand exactly what that means.
>>522547320I have freedom now. And also it is fun that my philosophies also have explanatory power which no other philosophy has.
>>522547243>What is good and what is evil If someone breaks into my house and tries to kill my family, is it right for me to keep him in my basement and torture him every day, making sure he doesn't die or see any kind of relief from it?
>>522547351>I only respect people that have no idea what they're talking about, like me >I have 6 gorillion hours in protestant theology and still don't know what's happening You may want to consider another line of work
>>522546198Define "cult."Why do cults have to be a bad thing?Just don't use your cult... or religion... or special club or whatever you wanna call it as a justification to fuck kids, enslave others, or be a dick. Use it to forge bonds, spread love, be kind, and find purpose.It's really not that hard... Just don't be a faggot.
>>522547261>"Why am I me rather than you?Contingency. I just happened to be born as me. You just happened to be born as you.Where does consciousness come from? Is it separate from the body? Does it survive after death? The honest answer is nobody knows for sure.
>>522547170It's not based, I don't get pussy either anon. Please wash your penis and go to church and try to be likeable and integrate with your community and maybe God will reward you with some snizz, I will pray that He does.
>>522547365>I'm just a pig in mud bro Maybe there's more to that
u must be a r theologian bc acc paul, there is a resurrection to life for those united to Christ and a different resirrection with a vessel fit for eternal damnation of God's wrathhell is the proper word, as the word is used to point to the actual, in the same way logos or god is appropriated to point to the real Logos and Godpaul even quotes a pagan who believes zeus is the creator of men, but appropriatea the quote to point to the unknown deity, ie the truine Godtmtwt
>>522547370False equivalence
>>522547690How is it false? Someone has wronged me, so I'm torturing them for as long as I want. Now, many people would see this as wrong, and God would be no exception. The question is why. Why would God disapprove of my action? Is it because it's immoral and disgusting? Or is it a pleasure only he's allowed to enact on others? Does God have a right to act immoral and sinful, because he's our creator and thus has a right to? Or would that go against his entire being? Remember that the bible describes jehovah as a being of divine justice, of love, of tender mercies. As a perfect being, he should be incapable of committing a wrong or sinful act. Therefore, if torturing someone is sinful, then God would have no part in it.
>>522547172JeWlite is what you are, but without the scrappy fighting spirit and 3000 years of beautiful tradition from Moses to Javier Milei; just window-washing Arian filth
>>522547580>God will reward you with some snizz,That would only make things worse.Woman is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Woman will betray you. The only thing worse than not getting pussy is getting pussy. The male desire to be with women is a curse. The thing we desire most is the thing that causes us the most suffering. It's a funny joke. If there's a God, He's laughing at us.The Buddha was right. Desire causes suffering. The only way to be free of suffering is to be free of desire. Especially desire for women.
>>522513626I'm pretty sure most people who seriously think about it know that Hell just deletes you. It is the only logical way for it to be a place without the omnipresent God. It perfectly fits with the dualistic nature of reality. It is also sickly benevolent due to giving atheists the death they wish for.
>>522547797Because you're a creature and the person is a creature This is called theology, if you care then go look it up, I've already stated I'm not giving an entire theology class on a /pol/ thread, this is not the format for this If there are less general, more specific questions that can be gone over without giant essays with context then I'm fine with answering or, if I don't know, referring you to a decent resource
>>522548006>Because you're a creature and the person is a creature So I have a right to torture him for all eternity, as long as he's a lesser being. Like, if I was one of God's chosen people, I'd be allowed to torture the lowly samaritans and goyim slave classes since they're beneath me.
>>522514241Lets see the list of names of whoever worked on your butchered bible, they still anonymous?Don't give me that dumb crap about not wanting to take away glory from God, that's what you guys said about the governing body when they stayed out of the picture, so lets see the list of editors and translators now.
>>522548164>So I have a right to torture him for all eternity, as long as he's a lesser beingNo Didn't read the rest of your post, you're not interested in knowing, you're interested in arguing against a position that you don't even know Go research or don't, I don't care
>>522548251You're not willing to take a moment out of your day to help someone understand the position. What kind of god-fearing man are you?
>>522547797ChatJeetPT on Eastern Orthodox vs. Latin Christian views on hell:>The Big Divergence: Augustine vs. the East (5th Century)>Western (Augustinian) Turn>Augustine systematizes:>Hell as eternal conscious torment.>Divine wrath as punitive.>Justice as legal retribution.>Souls fixed at death. This becomes the dominant Western framework.>Eastern Church Response>The East:>Never adopted Augustine’s doctrine of original sin or eternal torment as dogma.>Saw his views as overly legalistic and rooted in Roman juridical culture.>Preferred Greek patristic emphasis:>God’s love is constant; human response determines salvation or suffering.>As a result:>Orthodoxy does not have a single, dogmatically defined doctrine of hell.>Hell is not considered a "place" created by God for punishmentCatholic and protestant views on hell are all based on the opinion of this Augustin guy.Who was he anyway? I know he had a kid with his concubine then let his mother talk him to leaving her because she wanted to set him up to marry some higher class Roman woman. Because SHE wanted to be part of Roman high society.Sounds like a fucking loser to me. He was disloyal to the mother of his children because HIS mom was obsessed with social status.And we're taking theological advice from this Mama's boy clown? Lol.
>>522548496Hence why I cast doubt on the whole doctrine. When you have 5000+ people, including this augustin guy, and pretty much nobody can agree on anything, who's telling the truth?
>>522513779watchtower - tora wtch we - Torah witch wedannouncing - nonc un ga in - nonce gun gay sinkingdom - mik do gn - mick DOA gun
>>522546596The problem is that many people take religious and philisophical idealogies far too literally, miss the metaphors, or can't into memetics, and therefore get drug down into negative cycles, fixations, and compulsions instead of using spiritual idealogies as a MEMETIC TOOL to help inspire, understand conciousness and progress spiritual growth. It really shows in things like how many people can only concieve of things like heaven and hell as physical/metaphysical places, or god(s) as some sort of skydaddy, etc because theyre so very rooted in MATERIALISM. Thus they misunderstand concepts like worship. They can't see the miracles, love, and wonder that manifest in everyday life.If you have a dog, and you love it and treat it well? That dog worships you... You are like a god. And maybe that dog can even be an expression of god for you, and help you find enlightenment. Or maybe you're a cat person! Whatever. I find expressions of divine energy in other humans and in nature quite often.Maybe that's my pattern seeking brain looking for meaning... MAYBE, I am manifesting these things! Either way it beats being angry and sad, causing pain for myself and others.
>>522547990Even for a Leaf that's pretty gay. Just wash your fucking benis and go to church ok?
>>522534088She mad!
>>522547990You let women provoke you, huh?It's okay bro. Shit happens. But much more importantly... don't let other men provoke you. It's super gay to let another man rule over your emotions.Please don't take this as an attack... take it as freindly advice. I learned these things hard way, and I'm trying to hand you the Konami code. Be well, LeafAnon.
>>522513626I once had a vision of 4 souls burning in hell. I used to work out at 6 am at a gym and I kept having the most vile assholes constantly spying plotting and trying to kill me, for what you may ask? Because they are worthless scumbags is my beat guess anyways one day there was so much tension and the day before im pretty sure a few fucking losers that were trying to kill me got shot in the head and there souls where burning in hell it was so vivid so intense just unimaginable pain and cries of pure helplessness but the help never came there where in a perpetual state of screaming because it was nothing but pain. Serves them right. I wish I could have been the one to shoot them myself. This world is just full of such fucking scum that just cant keep to themselves
>>522549883I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things work out for you in the future. Be reassured that your experience won't happen again when God's Kingdom rules on earth. When we knock on your door answer. You have nothing to lose.
>>522549058Typo. He mad!
>>522549161Take is as friendly advise kys asap fednigger pedo
>>522513626Hell is where there are a lot of horny women, drugs galore, and the best rock and roll. I'm all in there!Fuck you fucking religions pussies gays.
>enter jewhovah thread>ctl+f "Charles Taze Russells">no results>????>>522550160>When we knock on your door answer. You have nothing to lose.jewhovadists go to hell like their freemason founder Charles Russells (anathema)Christ is God. Amen.
>>522550160Nothing to lose but brain cells from talking to cuckwalkers
>>522551674Based
>>522513626Maybe your nu-age tranny pastor tells you that Hell isint real and faggots like OP wont be sent to the lake of fire. But xir is lying. Read some real Catholic writings about Hell, its a real place.You will burn and suffer eternally in hellfire
>>522551817If you ever get trapped in a conversation with yahweh's yidnesses, just tell them you're a apostate exjw and they will run, worked for all my friends so far.
At no point in time did someone question how 4 random dudes who never been to hell can give a description of it?
>>522552516>ever get trapped in a conversation with yahweh's yidnessesno idea what that feels likei am juggernauti quote Scripture in ancient Greek from memory to prove the Holy Spirit *talks* to the Apostles (and is therefore a person and not just energy)jewhovadists tremble before me and scatter as chaff in the windjust like last night: >>522444614
>>522553061Good on you, wish I had that energy anymore, after bumping into so many of them through my life I'm simply too tired to slap all their retarded talking points down. They're just so damn stupid on top of being weasels trying to spin and beat around the bush or otherwise deflect and distract. It's exhausting.
>>522553554>after bumping into so many of themi used to do targeted trvthnvke strikes at their stands they would set up in town square, at the bus stop and outside hotels used for housing illegals until they stopped showing upsome of them (Greek-descent jewhovadists) had daughters whose modesty attracted me, but i was too concerned about their family relationship with freemasons to pursue anything
