https://patents.google.com/patent/CN119301758A/en?oq=CN2022097621
>>522569395CIA and DARPA on suicide watch or nah?
>>522569395Worthless chink shill hype GARBAGE. I’ll believe it when I see it
>>522569517it's already been demonstrated.https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/conference-proceedings-of-spie/13429/1342909/A-frontside-power-signal-decoupling-technology--self-aligned-metal/10.1117/12.3051181.short
>>522569511I dunno, I feel like I've been hearing about game-changing Chinese breakthroughs for like 10 years and then I never hear about them again.
>>522569804The miracle chinese breakthrough was in 2000 when big billy clinton sold out the USA and let them into the WTO. They certainly haven't let the opportunity slip.
>>522569395Its still lithographic
>>522569804I am pretty sure they can do 5-7nm right now, honestly I don't think 5 to 2 is such a big jump in terms of performance. Like if you use it in military tech? Do you need that performance?tank? ship? Think this only matters with consumer electronics performance.
>>522569395ITT the same worthless and petty Amerimutt cope as the last 10 yearsReminder the Amerimutt 2nm-5nm fab they recently forced East Chinese to build in muttland is still struggling and not even close to massproduction and they have nothing else in line despite Amerimutts trying to monopolize lithographs Amerimutts have to import from white countries.
>>522569395>chinks patent stolen techMany such cases. Sad!
>>522569395Everything is possible if you want single digit yields. Sticking with a DUV light source means you need more lith masks and exposure steps to etch the same features, and every step introduces more potential for error. N5 with partial EUV in critical layers was down to 30-40 masks. N2 without EUV would be around 100 masks. Not practical for HVM and never will be.>>522570373AZ fab is producing wafers and has been for a while
>>522570279>I am pretty sure they can do 5-7nm right now7nm class has been in massproduction in China for years lol5nm is phasing out of risk productionDid you miss all the Amerimutt cope stories and desperate spins trying to deny it?They are getting mad and ramping up the copium because last week theres been reports about a commercial 5nm release shipping Huawei smartphones with 5nm SMIC chips in Q1 2026. Until now they were only used for industry miners and AI racks. Everyone in the industry already knows this even when petty Amerimutt media tries to contain the news and hide it unter disinformation and flat earth delusion cope headlines.
>>522571015Show flag, pajeetAnd SMIC's N7 and N5 rough equivalents has lower density and worse electrostatic characteristics than Samsung or TSMC 7/5 FinFET nodes
>>522569888>sold out the USAWhat are you talking about? That improved everyone lives massively that's the entire reason computers become affordable in the late 20th century
>>522570530>AZ fab is producingNo it's not that entire thing was a corporate welfare scam
>>522571276I know people that live and work there, and I known when risk production started. They have been HVM for a long time now, and they will be continually expanding. They'll begin producing N2 GAA parts in 2027.
>>52257101I don't respond to subhuman memeflag jeets, kill yourself prakesh mongrel.
>>522569395I have no idea what this is or what it does
>>522569395EUV machines require so many extremely complex and specialised parts throughout heavily specialised companies across the West that even if China steals all company secrets from ASML that i doubt that China could actually build them on their own. Therefore i call BS
>>522572418ASML niggers on suicide watch
>>522569702Yeah and tomorrow china will claim we are breaking trade laws by limiting their access to our high end chips. China a shit
>>522569888You got sold out by finance bros not chinks building all your shit for cheap af.
>>522572418China won, get over it
>>522572418This is the same guy spewing the same tired cope in these threads. give it a rest loser youll soon be nonspecial and all that muttification you thought was necessary to be special will hit very differently
>>522572418>EUV machines require so many extremely complex and specialised parts throughout heavily specialised companies across the West that even if China steals all company secrets from ASML that i doubt that China could actually build them on their own. Yeah, that's why they trying to do it without EUV machines, which is pretty reasonable approach to mass production and cost reduction.
>>522572418all tech will be stolen, just a matter of when
>>522569395mirrions mo LED per nm, papsan
>>522574233Considering that the EU is demanding tech transfers from China they must have stolen it from future Aryans!
>>522570279Energy efficiency and smaller size
>>522575078With scaling you get higher xtor density, lower drive current, improved ppw, higher fmax if everything goes right. You just cross fingers and hope that the improvements are enough to offset the increased wafer cost.
>>522573085>>522573102>>522573524>>522573085Lmao the entire chink brigade pretending to be westerners
why should i care about shaving off some nanometer
>>522575234>be rightmorrhoid from the zionist axis>can't readmany such cases
>>522571276It recently underwent a power outage due to a Bri'sh gas company because of course there need to be subcontractors for everything.They were appropriately pissed off, but they're still turning a profit according to them: Startup costs are an issue, though.https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/tsmc-scrapped-thousands-of-wafers-after-power-outage-caused-september-shutdown/So that settles it, we're abandoning Taiwan and dragging all their best chipmakers to us so that China can take it uncontested.
>>522575078Why are any of those important? Particularly size, who cares, is there a shortage of volume to store computer chips?
>>522571710nanomachines
>>522573524>and cost reductionlol no, EUV is the cost reducing technology. the cope arounds propably involve 5 dozen masks per waver again
>>522570279>hink this only matters withAI
>>522572418still in denial huh
>>522569395If this is a real and practical technology that can be implemented then the entire world has every right to steal it since China stole everything they use in their manufacturing to this date.
>>522569395
>>522569395oh damnso they'll be making an alternative to the ASML lithography machine? neatif it's a better processthey might beable to get faster throughput - i think lithography is the most finicky and expensive part of the production linebranch education has a neat video avout asml euv lithography machines
>>522569702This seems to only apply to the metal layers and doesn't make progress on lithography. It sounds like they are just re-arranging the vias.It would still bring some speed ups and power savings though.
>>522570279Smaller nodes can also be cheaper per chip because you can get more chips on1 wafer.
>>522576992>i think lithography is the most finicky and expensive part of the production linenope that the mask writer
>>522571710>>522575952Not mere nanomachines, but moving into the realm of wave based physics as opposed to particle based.This is the greatest evolution of magick thus far, the art and science of causing change to occur in conformity with will.It is sin because you seek to remold creation in your own image, nit in the image God made for it.But, they won't listen.It will get worse.Then, one day, that God who isn't real will show up to smite us all for things like this.
>>522569395I could’ve drawn that
>>522577423If god didn't want us to create he would have not made us capable of art. What does it matter what I use as my brush?
>>522569804My country awards a trillion dollars to the Pentagon whenever they mention "advances in Chinese technology". We must be scared shitless, idk it just looks like a sweet gaming rig with no backdoors or hexagram-people programming.
>>522577394ehhh really? I thought they'd be easier to make becaue masks are much bigger and the details are only microscopic. Sure the design is costly though. Anyways because the mask is reusable, it doesn't impede you from scaling up the production by, say, 20%. It's the lithography machines which need to scan across each mm of the mask that are the time bottlenecks.For the purposes of building ai datacenters I assume the ability to scale up production of existing chips is more important than being able to make new asics faster. (though tbf I have heard people are shying away from lucrative asics because the field could suddenly move on from transformers)
>>522577423God made us capable of beating our children and stealing from our neighbors as a way of life. Access to anything He didn't give us is evil now, too? Am I just suposed to get shat out onto this planet comprised of trillions of dead bodies of things that came before me and be thankful I was here to writhe in the mire before expiring? Fuck a God who set up this gay, jewish universe. I would do anything to oppose it. Give me back my foreskin and I'll change my tune. Otherwise, we are getting simulated horsecock milf harems on chinese chips clocking billions of watts in orbit, far out of reach of your "God" who only seems to make whores and rape rats down here.
>>522577423This is unironically true to some extent. Plasmonic nano-lithography is the Next Big Thing® because you can get below the diffraction limit.
>>522577423Light sources are chosen because of their wave length, because the wave length determines minimum feature size per exposure.Everything you posted was asspull bloviating.
>>522578411oh so like how electron microscopes can get better fidelity than light micrscopes?guess that's one obstacle down but leakage/tunneling is still a problem
>>522569395Hey asshole, no one even knows what this means.
>>it's over
>>522578631Current leakage and tunneling is a known factor and its why certain xtor topology is used at certain feature sizes. Planar gates cannot scale below a certain feature size, so FinFETs were adopted to address the issues known as the SCE or short channel effect. When FinFETs were no longer adequate GAAs were adopted. Beyond GAAs we have FSFETs and atomic channel CFETs.We have an established pathway to continued area and power scaling for standard CMOS devices into the 2030s right this second.
>>522575868Its probably irrelevant now but won't be a few years from now when there's a serious need. iPhone tech was developed in the 90s but not until Jobs put it all together did it matter
>>522578875pogso we could get a weak revival of dennard/freq scaling?
>>522569395>chinks farming ideas on how to make this workXi Winnie the pooh is a gay faggot.
>>522578946>iPhone tech was developed in the 90s but not until Jobs put it all together did it matterSo Jobs' brilliant idea was to make a slab with rounded corners and a touchscreen? Wow, just like the latest breakthroughs on the iPhone 17! Time to set fire to 2000 of my American dollars to get in line for one!
>>522579553How did China become so powerful, anyway? It's almost as if...they had help!
>>522575868they are improvements. Improvements open the door to new possibilities.
>>522572530SHORT ASML
>>522579413Frequency scaling is an entire textbook until itself. Circuit complexity is a big component to FMAX. there are certain simple circuits that we can make that are in the Thz scale. Super complex CPU cores are just now reliably breaching 6Ghz. When the industry transitioned to FinFET transistors they found that growing taller fins allowed greater channel control at high frequencies. Intel pushed this super hard below their 14nm Trigate, TSMC did the same below 7nm. They now have different transistor libraries for higher clock speed or higher ultimate density and lower power.
>>522569395We can just steal it back from them. Cite their decades of corporate espionage as justification.
>>522575866This is really good, hopefully they learned from what went wrong and will be able to do a bunch more soon.
>>522571195If you think the cost of computer hardware is meaningfully affected by the wages of the workers involved I have a bridge to sell you. There’s a reason the fabs in Arizona are working out.
>>522579986hmm so a frequency-power tradeoff has emerged. Shame.thanks for all the info. didn't catch the jargon but I think I got the gistI suppose reducing power consumption is actually much more desirable than better frequencies, in the ML usecase.
>>522571710I wouldn't worry about it, goy.
>>522580319wowonly DUV thoughgood to have supplhy chain redundabcy ig
>>522575868Size is important for things like phones and drones.Power is important for everything.
>>522575868the smaller the chip, the more chips that can fit on a wafer and thus the cheaper each chip becomes
>>522569702>Simulation results show...Simulations and models show what you tell them to show.
>>522572418Have you Anons ever seen a post and exactly knew in which company given Anon is working? 'Bit creepy
>>522577686>If god didn't want us to create he would have not made us capable of artThat's the point of the Book of Enoch and half the lore of Freemasons, are we supposed to have such free will?
>>522581640I sometimes know when an american flag has been in prison, they use certain wording and alternative use of common slang
>>522570479this is how the bongs must have felt when our empire and industrial base was being dismantled when america came into its ascendency
>>522569395who did they steal it from?
>>522570373>Reminder the Amerimutt 2nm-5nm fab they recently forced East Chinese to build in muttland is still struggling and not even close to massproduction and they have nothing else in line despite Amerimutts trying to monopolize lithographs Amerimutts have to import from white countries.Build super clean water thirsty fab in dusty desertStaff with brown immigrant workforce and low IQ localsFail to deliver anything remotely approaching capacity outputMany such cases
>>522570530>AZ fab is producing wafers and has been for a whilelow quality shit, not the good stuff
>>522582185no one is celebrating here in Dakota oblast
>>522571710Don't worry about it babe.
>>522582368>no one is celebrating here in Dakota oblastyou /k/ niggers should be beaten over the head with bricks
>>522570279Military chips are all 10 years out of date. China could make a CPU with 2015 performance today, and it would be more than enough to run a fighter jet or ballistic missile easy. This is about being commercially competitive. And AI.
>>522569395hope they undercut those kikes from nvdia and amd
>>522569395so many butt hurt yankswhy do you even care?
>>522569395There is no need for Taiwan. No need to defend it either unless you want cattle to die for chinks.
>>522571195>What are you talking about? That improved everyone lives massively that's the entire reason computers become affordable in the late 20th centuryWorker expenses are like 3% of the cost of a CPU. Even if they worked for free, you would still pay 97%.
>>522570279At TSMC, pre-EUV 7nm was crap compared to EUV.
>>522571710It lets you bind demons into computers
>>522584196>There is no need for Taiwan. No need to defend it either unless you want cattle to die for chinks.agreed, which is why taiwan will do everything in its power to sabotage the US-chip fabs, which will end up failing due to brown retardation anyway
>>522584687The Taiwanese won't die to defend their country either. Why bother funding the defense of someone who does not care about themselves? It'll be like Afghanistan. At least the Ukrainians put up a valiant fight.
>>522579592His brilliant idea was to undercut people and market stuff well.Anyone could have done it but he did and he made billions because of it.
>>522580783If it can do 2nm, it could be big
>>522587338
>>522585452>The taiwanese won't die to defend their country either. Why bother funding the defense of someone who does not care about themselves?lmao, its completely and totally meaningless, futile spending for them, thats whyChina is orders of magnitude, like fucking 10-to-the-x-power stronger than taiwan could ever beits like hounding canada into some military build up.it makes categorically no sense, at all, in anyway
>>522580319They only just started "mass" production of these machines last month, so next year is make it or break it. They either need a major fab to build a production line with it, or do it themselves in a joint venture.Until it's proven technology, most fabs aren't going to touch it. If they are allowed to sell to China, the chinks might take the plunge, since they are out of good options and their own shit is a decade out.
>>522588532>and their own shit is a decade out.so next year if youre not /k/ike brained.got it
>>522571710It means we can make way cooler thermal sights now.
>>522571710Magic rock that can do mathAnd show me porn
>>522577332they are cheaper to make, but the cost of designing, debugging and testing goes up exponentially the smaller you go.
>>522569395They keep using the same picture, just changing the nano number.
>>522588803>so next year if youre not /k/ike brained.>got itTwo more weeks for 10 years in a row, just like Putlers clusterfuck.
>>522569395at this level I bet you could argue the individual dots are molecules
>>522579417I care more about tech the will improve our ability to discern truth instead of tribal dick jerking into the stone age
>>522580110Neat, but you forget, the jews sent all chip plants out of the us
>>522589630then you need to get on the jewish problem first. AI chatbots are obviously not letting the truth through, so your dream is already dead, and you need to tribe up to solve the problem.it's time to DESTROY technology if the jew is just going to use it to promote their satanic tribe. i hope this help resolve your cognitive dissonance
>>522589493>"muh Putler"so youre exactly nigger brained /k/ tranny i rightly identified you as!GOT IT!>pic relatedits ukraine 48hrs into "no nato intelligence"
>>522571195>Computers became affordable>India starts digitally shitting up the information superhighway Yeah I'm starting to have second thoughts
>>522589785>surroundDriving in circles and then going back for a WW1 re-enactment for a couple years ...
>>522570279>I am pretty sure they can do 5-7nm right nowThey can't commercially.
>>522589754not letting the truth through sure but what oi one wants to admit they are closer to our ideal than theirs, they cant lie well enough
>>522569395Lol lets see the yield rates
>>522590589>what oi one wants to admit t?
>>522589390oooh interestingmakes sensewonder if at that point you're better off reasoning about poynting vectors or smth to model all the impact of all that complex geometry
>>522590112gunna be hilarious to watch the nationwide collapse of ukraine in 48hrs all over again the moment the US intelligence gets flipped *off* and Trump throws the ukrainian condom in the trash
>>522590820Which would just prove US's dominance. You're proving my point.Chinks are indeed completely dependent on ASML scanners and will be for years, unless Canon helps them out. Just like Putler is completely dependent on US not throwing some money and intel at Ukraine.
>>522591577>"its just a few bux and some old garage sale junk we didnt want anyway!"/k/ nigger pleasea 36+ nation coalition threw the combined GDP of europe, and 50+ years of their state of the art nato-procurements at Russia, got them obliterated in less than 4 years, and have completely demiliatarized and castrated europe rendering it geopolitically irrelevant and subserviant for the next century (minimum)>no refunds!
Mr. Xi please hook me up with a cheap GPU and RAM, I fucking hate njudea, I'll be the biggest fan of the Celestial Kingdom, fuck up the Taipei jews already
>>522569395Let's say this thing being patented is genuine and works. What's stopping any other country from just stealing it and manufacturing it? What's China gonna do? Take another nation state to court for patent infringement? Which court even has jurisdiction? How could they even enforce any judgement? What's stopping the US from manufacturing this "2nm-class patterning without EUV" and telling the chinks to fuck off? Yes this is a rhetorical question. The answer is nothing and nobody. Patent law is made up faggot shit that hasn't been relevant or fit-for-purpose for decades.
>>522592475>What's China gonna do?lmao the same thing they always do you dumb nigger and thats find out how much the other guy is selling it for, *SLAM SUBSIDIZE BUTTON* and sell it for 1/5 the price and twice the speedhow do you not understand this by now?
>>522582268It literally has better yields than the Taiwan plants.
>>522579986how did you learn all of this shit, sounds fascinating but all the monkeys in my country only want to talk about soccer
>>522592893>It literally has better yields than the Taiwan plants.NIGGER PLEASE
>>522589493>putlerlmao you're a little child that just parrots what you hear online
>>522592620Do you have an intellectual disability or are you just pretending to be a disingenuous retard?
>>522570279>>522571015>>522577332>>522589390>>522571098So many computer fags itt and they are still buying the muh smaller node marketing gagReal Resolution: The Tech Behind the NanometersFor today’s chips, “7nm” or “5nm” might only roughly correlate with any real physical length. Extreme Ultraviolet (EUV) lithography enables manufacturers to print incredibly fine patterns, but actual feature sizes depend on multiple factors: patterning techniques, pitch scaling, and device design. For example, “5nm” nodes may have metal pitches in the range of 30-40nm and fin pitches around 20-30nm, which are larger than the marketed “5nm” label implies.https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/understanding-chip-process-nodes-vs-real-resolution-breaking-rammler-x9n0e
>>522582185the pay is garbage too, less than fast food, and it's temp contracts. You don't get a permanent position unless you speak Mandarin pretty much. Fuck em.>>522575866>So that settles it, we're abandoning Taiwan and dragging all their best chipmakers to us so that China can take it uncontested.Gotta be eerie being a bug working in a Taiwan fab that you know is rigged to explode remotely.
>>522593754do you?
>>522570373show flag kike, also lithographs are american technology
>>522594246>do you?Yes. But I'm also faster and stronger than you, and despite my intellectual disability I am apparently smarter than you too.
>>522571195Kill all boomers.
>>522569702A self-aligned metal layer just flew over my house!
>>522594612>But I'm also faster and stronger than youLMAO, DOUBT THAT NIGGER
>>522594373kek keep coping faggot goylem, your dick is mutilated and your chip factories are a scam LOL
>>522569395How many nanometers is this company's 2nm and is that better or worse than other companies 2nm?
May we see the finished product?
>>522594853>>522594612You are both gay faggots
>>522569702Still waiting for that atomic battery that will power my phone for a lifetime while also not giving me cancer or exploding in my ear.
>2nm-class patterning without EUV
>>522593821thisit doesn't function well as a metric to compare between different fabs with different process nodes, because it's entirely a marketing terme.g. the reality is something like>SMIC's 7nm == TSMC's 12nm == Intel's 10nm SuperFinand none of them correspond to anything physically those sizeswithin a given fab's process, a smaller number is just saying "this node is generationally better than our last"it's a stupid systemso when Huawei and SMIC announce something as "2nm class", what the fuck does that mean in terms of yield, or performance, or density?you're just supposed to hear "2nm" and be wowed>"OMG so tiny!"but it's a bullshit con-jobpure marketing fluffdo not be fooled
>>522570279inafter ai seetheImagine what we could do if we hadn't had vibecoding for the last 20 years.
>>522572418sorry man, china numba one. better get used to it. this is the price the west is paying for babysitting women and niggers and pretending like they are equal to white men for 200 years
>>522595732proposed better system: just remove 'nm' altogetherSMIC-7TSMC-12INTEL-10and start counting up instead of counting downnow it's clearer that they're not directly comparable, and that the number doesn't correspond to physical dimensions
We're becoming Chyna's agricultural colonies aren't we?All of this because we had to have free trade as the official state religion.
>>522596642>We're becoming Chyna's agricultural colonies aren't we?>All of this because we had to have free trade as the official state religion.lol yah (((free trade))) was the official state religionADD IT TO THE LIST
So where do I buy the thing?
>>522597447taiwan i think
>>522569395Sick, nothing like a bit of healthy competition to keep the race going.
>>522589512Close, if you take the Si layer its about correct more or less. The copper one is off.
>>522591898do you really believe that?what a delusion lmao.
>>522577266You are responding to a 2pbtid shill who doesn't understand what he is posting
>>522587448Except its going to be the US plus Japan which is why China threw a fit when the Japan PM spoke the obvious. It's always funny seeing little bugmen seethe.
>>522569395>>522581598>Simulation results show...>Simulations and models show what you tell them to show.this.
>>522598867>>522599168lmao /k/ niggers have brain damage
>>522595732>doesn't work for comparisionwtfI knew it didn't correspond to feature size anymore but not that.Yet another thing co-opted by the marketers, like clock speed.
>>522599103eh i had the energy to undermine the post so i did
>>522599454>>Simulation results show...>>Simulations and models show what you tell them to show.>this.hurry, quick what western jet is this copying?
>>522570279In nvidia's next gen (Rubin) iirc they are talking pulling 600kW per rack. 1MW per rack isn't a joke anymore. I've read a paper serious about pulling 12kV 3 phase straight into each rack. Single datacenters pulling 1GW is feasible - this is the output of an entire power plant.This is on top of moving down to modern <= 3nm class semiconductors. China can brute force things for a little while and keep up. But only for a little while.
>>522599670>This is on top of moving down to modern <= 3nm class semiconductors. China can brute force things for a little while and keep up. But only for a little whilelmao, the "brute forcing" is going to increase by orders of magnitudehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medog_Hydropower_Station
>>522599552Ya man it's hilarious seeing bugmen get all riled up. You even have female bugmen throwing temper tantrums in Japan.https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/5263049BTW why are women bugmen so ugly?
>>522599867That's exactly what I mean. Compare 2000's electronics, or even 2010 electronics to today's.Then think about the fundamental problems of scaling at the chip/package/rack level. Pulling racks and chips closer together reduces latency and drops the power required to transmit each bit. Scaling up by just scaling power and size means you fight these other limits too, which makes power demands that much greater and limits performance.Modern datacenter stuff is beyond air-cooling - firmly in water cooling terratory. That is what it requires to cool a rack now. Then comes 2 phase where the chips directly boil something.
>>522599867>3x the size of the three gorges dam>can flood india if it’s destroyed or they feel like itBig win
>>522600183China's strategy will be to throw untold amounts of hydro power at the question, to effective results no doubtmeanwhile, the US strategy will be building a data center on every plot of land it can con out of whoever it can find, and brown-out the grid of whatever city it occupies ad-hoc, while drinking the entire water table for a tri-county area.now THATS ingenuity!>>522600692this I believe, is its net benefit to humanityjeets will absolutely throw the bitch fit of the century about it (but cant do shit)'power move' for sure
>>522602303>meanwhile, the US strategyI think these are memes, except for the power thing which is totally pathetic. How we let the green fags kneecap power generation and production in the US is just sad. High power bills have been a problem for years; only now that it impacts the various tech-jesus's does it have a chance to get fixed.
The chinese are making the best AI open models for gooning so I'm on their side
>>522572418Your irrelevant shithole country is no longer needed to the world
ah yes here's the hourly wumao China Best threadYep oh wow look at all these amazing super technologies from Grorious China! All that tech and they can't stop buildings crumbling or their economy imploding! Its almost like all a bunch of bullshit! But we know China is too great for such deception!
>>522575234China pays an army of shills to pretend to be westerners telling you how amazing grorious China isWho needs jews when you have the PRC?
>>522569395Sinovation
