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>'the left'
All government wants to increase its own size. Illusory "ideology" / ideological categories has nothing to do with it.
Governments today are based on debt, nothing more (not even revenue can begin to even make the Interest Payments on the accrued debt)
Has nothing at all to do with political parties, "left" or "right"
Government exists for government's sake: to expand itself

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>>523981082
The left/right of politics is a false dichotomy, but whatever. Let's speak into this notion of spending more vs less.

First of all, A sovereign government can never run out of money; they create it out of thin air. This is an indisputable fact. The government has the power to create money for whatever it wants.
Second of all, taxes aren't used to fund anything at all. It's purpose is to remove money from circulation as to not cause inflation, and to give money value in the form of a threat to whomever should not pay their taxes. Therefore you need the specific currency that is legal tender and you have to work for that.
So you push money into the economy by government pending and through bank lending.

Now, what the government choose to spend their money on is a political question.
The left usually wants more regulation and more focus on the environment and more equality and fairness, and aesthetics and welfare and social mobility and so on, based on rules and principles. That's not a planned market, that's just a regulated market. Whereas the right usually wants to do deals and remove regulations and create a "free market" and leave people to their own means and do not care about extreme inequality and so on. That creates very bad conditions for the market to thrive or individuals to thrive. Only a small number of people will benefit and control everything. So the Rightist politics is really more of a planned economy than the left one, because in a Rightist economy, you'll end up with capitalist feudalist monopolies controlling everything including politics.
So there you have it.

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>>523984547
If you do not spend into improving market conditions and infrastructure, then it will just crumble, and you'll have all sorts of horrible problems.
It's much better for the government to just pay for public services, infrastructure, and welfare, and catch people before they fall into the ditch, than to do nothing. It's both economically and socially more profitable for the government to spend lots of money into the economy in order to improve it.
The real constraint is productive capacity. If you have too high of a demand on too low of a productive capacity, at some point you'll just inflate the prices instead of getting more for your money.
So the government can never run out of money, but they can inflate prices if they throw too much money on things that increases the demand above a certain point.

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>>523984547
Wrong, because central banks are privately owned and sovereign governments via their treasury are indebted to them.
Interest Payments are real (not imaginary). Spending doesn't 'come from nothing' it is Debt by definition. As posted in my first post on thread, the government exists to grow itself and to spend: That's its only purpose. Belief that the government somehow is 'doing something' (on behalf of __________________ ) is an illusion, and further the notion that the "revenue" or "wealth" is somehow apportioned, or 'used', for some illusory "purpose" is self-deception. Most of government spending goes to Interest Payments on debt.

To understand human life and civilization (and then government/politics/society and all else), you must first understand and comprehend what money is, how it is created.

Every anon itt watch, study these 2 documentaries:

The Money Deluge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6m49vNjEGs

97% Owned — How is money created
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcGh1Dex4Yo


Everyone on Earth, all HNW entities, corporations, sovereign governments, hedge funds are indebted slaves to private central banks that control it all.


>mmt
Denmark flag is a shill. Ignore his posts

>>523985315

I'm not going to use a lot of time on this argument, so here you have the answer from google:

Your opponent is repeating a very common "hard money" or "conspiratorial" view of central banking. While they are partially correct that commercial banks create money via debt (a point MMT actually agrees with regarding private credit), they are fundamentally wrong about the relationship between the government, the Central Bank, and who "owns" the money supply.

Here is a breakdown of where their argument fails, specifically using the MMT framework and operational facts to dismantle it.

1. The Myth of "Private Ownership" of the Central Bank
The Opponent's Claim: "Central banks are privately owned... governments are indebted to them."

The Reality:
While it is technically true that commercial banks "own stock" in the Federal Reserve (in the US system), this is not "ownership" like owning stock in Apple or Tesla.

No Voting Rights on Policy: The "stockholders" (private banks) have no say in monetary policy. The Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) sets policy, and the Board of Governors are public officials appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.
The Profit Remittance: This is the smoking gun that disproves your opponent. If the Fed were truly a private corporation extracting wealth from the government, it would keep the profits. It does not.
By law, after paying its operating expenses and a tiny statutory dividend (6%) to member banks, the Federal Reserve remits all remaining profits back to the US Treasury.
Result: The government is effectively paying interest to itself.
The MMT Rebuttal: The Treasury and the Central Bank are two departments of the same entity: The State. MMT calls this the "Consolidated Government Sector." To say the Treasury is "enslaved" to the Central Bank is like saying your left pocket is enslaved to your right pocket.

>>523986505
>>523985315

2. The Fact-Check on Interest Payments
The Opponent's Claim: "Most of government spending goes to Interest Payments on debt."

The Reality:
This is objectively, mathematically false. You can verify this by looking at the US Federal Budget (or almost any major sovereign nation's budget).

The Data: In the US, interest on the debt usually accounts for roughly 8% to 15% of the federal budget (depending on the year and interest rates).
The Big Spenders: The vast majority of government spending goes to Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Defense, and social safety nets.
The MMT Rebuttal: Your opponent is trying to argue that the government only exists to service debt. The math simply does not support this. The government exists to provision itself (military/infrastructure) and the public welfare.

3. "Spending doesn't come from nothing"
The Opponent's Claim: "Spending doesn't 'come from nothing' it is Debt by definition."

The Reality:
Your opponent is conflating Commercial Bank Money with Sovereign Money.

Commercial Banks (Private): When you take out a mortgage, the bank creates money "out of nothing" but records it as a debt. You must pay it back. This matches your opponent's view (mostly).
The Sovereign (Government): When the US government spends, it creates new High-Powered Money (Reserves). It does not need to "borrow" this money from the private sector first. It issues the currency.
The MMT Rebuttal: MMT agrees that users of the currency (you, me, businesses) are constrained by debt. The issuer of the currency is not. The government issues the currency that allows the private sector to settle its debts. The opponent thinks the government is just another "user" of money, which is the fundamental error.

>>523986560
>>523985315
4. The "Slave to the Bankers" Narrative
The Opponent's Claim: "Everyone... is an indebted slave to private central banks."

The Reality:
The Central Bank operates under laws passed by Congress (The Federal Reserve Act). Congress can amend, alter, or dissolve the Central Bank at any time.

If the Fed were truly the "master," it wouldn't be subject to congressional oversight, and its Chair wouldn't have to testify before Congress.
The Fed exists to manage the payments system and stabilize the economy for the state, not to enslave the state.
The MMT Rebuttal: The government can always afford to pay its debts because the debts are denominated in the currency it creates. You cannot be "enslaved" by a debt you can pay off by pressing a button.

If the government wanted to, it could mint a $100 Trillion Platinum Coin, deposit it at the Fed, and pay off all the bonds tomorrow. The reason they don't is because of inflation risk, not because the "bankers won't let them."
5. Addressing the Documentaries ("97% Owned")
The documentary "97% Owned" makes the point that commercial banks create the vast majority of the money supply (digital bank deposits) through lending.

Where the Opponent is Right: Yes, ~97% of money used in daily transactions is bank credit created by private banks.
Where the Opponent is Wrong: They assume this makes the Government powerless.
The MMT View: The Government/Central Bank controls the "Base Money" (Reserves) that allows those private banks to function. The private banks are franchises of the state's money system. The State guarantees their deposits (FDIC) and regulates their behavior. The tail does not wag the dog.

>>523986617
>>523985315
Summary of the Counter-Argument
Your opponent has fallen for a "category error."

They think the Government is a household (currency user) that must borrow from a bank.
They think the Central Bank is a predatory lender (private business).
The Truth: The Government is the source of the money, and the Central Bank is the operational arm of the Government.
The interest payments they are so worried about are largely paid from the Treasury to the Fed, and then remitted right back to the Treasury. It is an accounting loop, not a slavery system.

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>Central bank is the government
Wrong.
No central bank is 'the government' or part of it,
currency is created from debt
Interest Payments are real and *must* be paid annually (to the central banks)


>Anonymous (ID: 5VqGoxu2) Denmark flag mmt Shill Bot 7 pbtid
Ignore this content.


Here is content to study, take notes on
professor Richard Werner
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/511622826

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTKHskg5Tg


See also the two essential documentaries >>523985315

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>>523989247
You're still talking about PRIVATE banks.
Private banks and central banks are completely different both in purpose and function.
Also, Richard Werner was the guy that pivoted me into MMT around 7 or 8 years ago.
Richard would agree with what I'm saying or the main points at least. I studied this stuff extensively several years ago.
If you have watched or read Princes of the Yen by Richard Werner, then you'd know this. You can watch it for free on Youtube.
Werners argument regarding this is that Central Banks often protect commercial banks too much, not that they're not controlled by the government. It's the government that controls the Central Bank. Politicians just generally don't know a lot about this, so they just let the central bank do central banking stuff without questioning it. That's a real problem; however, it's still under the control of the government.

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>>523990744
(You) have no idea what you're posting about. Absolutely None
(nor have you watched 'Princes of the Yen', read that book, or comprehended any of Werner's work. (You) are a *LIAR*.)

Central banks control all governments, in a totalitarian manner (not just the gov but media, policy messaging, all of the ruling leadership of every nation)
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930540
^watch the interview anons^

>>523991305
What's the evidence for this claim? That central banks control all governments and media and all the ruling leadership of every nation in a totalitarian manner?

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>>523991746
Watch the interview, read the archive.4plebs thread

>>523991849
What interview?

>>523981082
Yes. It's an ironic twist that most mainstream leftist policies end up just putting money into the hands of some business or corporation instead. No one wants to be honest about it, so they just make up a feelsgood sounding excuse that normies eat up.

>>523992218
It's globalism in action. Central banks are the primary enablers and initiators of globalist policy, they are the architects. Governments of the world are their workerbees ('build back better') : this includes open borders, woke/DEI policies, 'green energy' all of it.
Refer to the Liz Truss interview ^^^ archive.4plebs

>What interview


Here >>523991305
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930540
^watch the interview anons^

>>523992483
>>523992660
A lot of claims there.
So is there any evidence supporting this in that interview? (which I can't seem to find probably due to broken links or wrong links)
Please link to the exact video and the timestamp where this is provided. Usually stuff like this is just a bunch of claims and ideology and hearsay without any real evidence.

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let's ask powell before he leaves office kek

>>523992845
>Anonymous (ID: 5VqGoxu2) Denmark flag ELEVEN POSTS BY THIS ID Disinformationalist mmt Shill Bot 'i-i can't find it, give me this "broken" link it's "wrong" waaah probably'
Go fuck (You)rself.
Everything is provided in full on the linked archive.4plebs thread : Interview with U.K. Prime Minister (in OP December 2025, and a 2024 longer interview on U.K. television with her)

>>523992986
hey anon. Help us blow this mmt shill out of here

>>523993040
>>523992483
>>523992845
Dude, yeah an exact link would be helpful. I've got a billion things I'm doing right now. I'll put an interview/show about the Fed on the queue if you can give us a link to it.

That's asking politely, please.

>>523993040
The link is dead. Like I just told you.
You can just say you don't have the evidence. I'm not going to watch a whole interview on your behalf. You make the claims, then you provide the evidence. Your claims are extreme and bold, so you should be able to back them up.
Can you even give one single example? Because I highly doubt it. I don't feel like you're arguing in good faith. It feels like you're here to push an ideology. You're getting angry if I question you and call me names and what not. It seems extremely dishonest. You haven't even addressed the points in my responses.

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>>523993419
>>523993424
>'waAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!1!!1!!1111111" WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAAAAAAHHHHHH111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
>'WAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
The link had a typographical error.
'4' instead of '2'

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930520


https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930520

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930520

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930520


https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930520

>>523991305


*corrected* (single numeral typo) URL for the Central Bank interview:
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930520
^watch the interview anons^

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>>523993424
The NYFed runs the fucking planet, make no mistake about it.
<<<——— the international banking cartel driving humanity into the ground
>private owners of the NYFed, aka shareholders aka primary dealers
>privately-incorporated company
>market makers for US treasuries
>used to be 46, now there are 24
>Five-time felon JPM is the largest
Behold, people! The failures of 2008 on fucking QE steroids.

>24 nation-less financial corporations destroying the planet with national indebtedness, purposeful arbitrage and false scarcity
<<<<----also, NYFed fulfilled its diversity requirement by adding a new Primary Dealer, ASL Capital Markets, owned by an Arab banker (a minority-owned business), been in business three years and now issuing our currency

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>>523994182
The Bank Of International Settlements (BIS) is the head of all debt-based central banks (and founded by JPM) and was created in 1930 under the Versailles Treaty to get money from Germany for all the nasty shit they did in WWI.
The Federal Reserve and the Bank of England existed way before the BIS, the BIS morphed into their central clearing house and check-kiting hub for the first fractional-reserve, fiat, debt-based central banking schemes run in a few countries and then expanded from there to installing its central banks in over sixty countries.
Pic related
Note Iran, Iraq, Cuba, Syria, North Korea, Afghanistan, and Venezuela are NOT on the list lol
Note China IS ON THE LIST
>China begged to be in the basket of currencies under the IMF and BIS in 2015 and the yuan was finally used in 2017
>only took the NYFed four years to get China bent over the table
>Damn
Note Ukraine is NOT on the list, as it was a 2014 freshly-installed regional NYFed bank branch, it was still on probation
Russia is looking to get off the list.

The NYFed is similar to a space ship in sci-fi movies that hovers over nations and sucks up all the resources, slowly orbiting the planet.
Note that the NYFed and the Fed Board of Governors were just added as SEPARATE ENTITIES to the US on this list

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>>523994245
An India anon’s thread on the NYFed’s primary dealers:
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/419352960/
<<<<——this thread shows the SAME primary dealers in all of the debt-based central banks listed in the image in >>523994245, which reads just like the list of the NYFed’s primary dealers as seen in >>523994182

>>523993419
>I've got a billion things I'm doing right now
yeah well I've got a trillion things.
Apologies for the 1-character typo and be sure to check out the interview and materials on that recent thread, anon
Also ignore the Denmark flag mmt shill, anon_s_

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>>523994326
>>523993424
kek and in case there is any fucking doubt this Senate report shows EXACTLY how fucking much foreign primary dealer banks get from the fucking NYFed for each country vs what that country paid in tariffs for Q2 2025

>>523994533
checked, this was (our prior thread) a bombshell

>>523993787
Where's the evidence?
She just claims something without backing it up with evidence.

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i am going to have a thread later today/early evening on rand paul's study in pic rel anon
pic rel is the closest we have ever gotten to auditing the fed

>>523994727
meant for >>523994589

>>523994727
look forward to it

>>523994699
checked, who is more knowledgable and authoritative in matters of national governance and central banks:

>former U.K. prime minister
>Anonymous (ID: 5VqGoxu2) Denmark flag itt

>>523994245
>>523994533
What argument is this the evidence for?
Please state your argument.

>>523994931
Appeal to authority is not evidence. But since you're so smart, I shouldn't have to explain that to you, you'd already know that. That's why I take it as an insult.

>>523995130
>'appeal'
(You) are an mmt shill bot. The former PM has experience with government monetary and fiscal policy implementation (that's what makes her an "authority" on the topic)

>'y-you hurt muh feels' / sympathy card
Nobody cares, concern troll.

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>>523995023
i already did
my posts are clear as fucking day

The Federal Reserve Uniparty, debauching our currencies worldwide and spreading misery, while creating arbitrage:
NYFed is the boss
BIS is the agreement (pic rel)
IMF is the wallet (uses SDRs)

>>523995318
You're objectively an idiot, which is just the formal definition of being anti democratic.

>>523995453
Sorry, that was for >>523995308

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kek
>>523995023
take a good fucking look at picrel, note how fucking similar it is to pic in >>523994182

>>523995318
I'm not sure what you're arguing against?
My argument is that It's the government that has control over the Central bank and its policies.

>>523995453
>(more) ad hominem, holier-than-thou
>muh democracy
is the United Kingdom not a 'democracy'?
as for (You) Denmark flag, you haven't the slightest idea what you're posting about. Learn some things and come back in a few months (or do not, dgaf)

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>>523995453
so you have no retort of substance?
just subjective, worthless drivel?
i am used to that from prior shills, once again illuminating the low caliber of persons that shill for the Fed lol
the only idiot here is you
pic definitely fucking related:
your neighbor kek

>>523995606
What is your argument??
Those are the banks in the market. So what is so special about that?
The central bank deals to those banks. I don't get what you're trying to say.

>>523995865
I said that was not for you here >>523995498
, but for the other guy who keeps making personal attacks instead of keeping to the substance of the dialogue.

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The debt-based Federal Reserve (the Fed) and the IRS were both created in 1913.
The new IRS conveniently forced everyone to use their new Federal Reserve Notes to pay their new US Federal Income Tax.
The Fed was supposed to stabilize the US currency by backing every Federal Reserve Note (FRN) issued (TO BUY US TREASURIES) with 40% gold (40 cents of gold for each $1 FRN issued).
In 1933, everyone’s gold was confiscated by the Treasury (except $100 worth/person) b/c the Fed convinced US Pres FDR that Americans were hoarding gold & they were forced to trade their gold in for $20.67/troy oz. Federal Reserve Notes were also now no longer exchangeable for gold.
In 1934 the Gold Reserve Act allowed FDR to establish the gold value of the dollar solely by proclamation & raised the exchange rate to $35/oz troy, extracting wealth & value once again from the American public.
In 1944, the IMF & the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD) were formed at the Bretton Woods Conference.
In 1958, Bretton Woods pegs all foreign currencies to the dollar, & the dollar pegged to gold at $35/troy oz. Debt-based Central Banks under the BIS pop up all over the world to facilitate the Fed & the BoE in their check kiting, fractional reserve, debt-based central-banking ponzi.
In 1971, Nixon depegs the dollar to gold entirely, making the US currency free-floating fiat, which completely negated the original Federal Reserve Act of 1913, which was to back each Federal Reserve Note issued with gold.
In 1974, Pres Ford legalizes gold ownership again without limitation & gold is NOW valued at $42/ozt.
The NOW BANKRUPT Federal Reserve & its biggest shareholders, the NYFed’s primary dealers, for the last 50 years & up to today, continue to issue our currency out of thin air, while charging us interest to do so. Rewarding insolvent, failing banks & investment firms using QE and taxpayer money over & over again, acquiring assets during crises, while rigging global markets.

>>523996005
he stays on point and sees thru your "the government tells the Fed what to do" bullshit
you don't understand the architecture, he does

debt-based currencies are doomed to fail as they are now

>>523996005
>'m-muh personal attacks'
That (You) Denmark concern troll / mmt shill, started >>523995130

>>523995867
Define what a Primary Dealer is.
we'll wait

>>523996139
I asked him for evidence, but he hasn't given it. He just uses personal attacks and ad hominems like appeal to authority. He assumes that no one can be smarter and know better than Liz Truss because she has been an elected official. That's appeal to authority. In this case a facist tendency and undemocratic in nature of the conversation. Idiocy is formally the definition of being anti democratic. So he's objectively an idiot.
Also, the government can't be in debt to its own issuance. The debt record is a record of how much money is floating in the economy.
It's the commercial banks that are endebted to the central bank, and you are endebted to the commercial banks. The central bank can't be in debt to itself.

>>523996467
That's a bank that has a contractual relationship with the central bank.
Why?

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>>523994809
so, another interesting suggestion by Miran is for the TGA (treasury General Account (TGA) to hold bills instead of cash and to control rates by purchases or sales of their own stock, cutting out the Fed)
this is what is known as an "active lending approach" and the Fed would only be allowed a small amount of treasuries on its SOMA (its balance sheet, for new anons), just to aid the Treasury here and there

the Fed's SOMA (balance sheet) would have these bills on the asset side and the TGA account itself would be the SOMA liability side

i can already hear the reeeeeing from here

>>523996561
>evidence
Of what?
(You) don't even know or comprehend in the smallest manner what you're posting about itt

>Liz Truss
Go to the interview / thread archive.4plebs,
all is explained there, clearly and succinctly (even greentexted)

>"anti democratic"
Define 'democracy'
Now define 'anti democratic'

>'facist'
Learn to spell

>elected official
Who would know better how a nation's budget and fiscal/monetary policies are implemented, than a former Prime Minister?
Better than an (unelected) private bank employee, for mere example

>'no one can know better'
(You) stated that not me.
It's an excellent testimonial (two separate interviews are provided on that thread) of a ranking government leader, in this instance U.K. prime minister, of who runs the country and has the most influence over the nation's policies and governance. All is explained there in the interviews, don't take my words for it and most of all for anyone reading this do not take the Denmark flag 21 pbtid (ID: 5VqGoxu2) shill posts with any veracity.

>>523996892
What kind of bank?

What is the 'contractual relationship' nature, explain it in detail.

>>523996987
The evidence of your claims about the central bank not being controlled by government but that "Central banks control all governments, in a totalitarian manner (not just the gov but media, policy messaging, all of the ruling leadership of every nation)" Whcich is an extremely bold claim you haven't provided any hard evidence for. The closest you've come is, 'Liz Truss says something similar'

>>523997216
Until (You) have watched the interview / consulted the thread with all that information and critique it (You)r posts are worthless
Go there, watch the interview, come back here with your critique. Otherwise gtfoh

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>>523996561
he does not
he actively surveils the central bank landscape and nicely monitors market sentiment and has excellent links to real traders all of the time
he has brought many things that have escaped me to my attention
he is a Fed'anon'-- like the rest of us that despise debt-based central banking and the unbelievable and immeasurable current harm it is inflicting upon the fabric of our society, not to mention its damage to our currency which is the fucking lifeblood of our country

anons are patriots that want to restore the currency to the people of each nation
>party's fucking over

>>523997056
Ok. I'm just going to copy this from google, because I don't have time for this. I don't know what you're after. But here you go:

A Primary Dealer is a bank or financial institution that has a special, contractual relationship with the Federal Reserve (specifically the Federal Reserve Bank of New York).

Think of them as the exclusive wholesalers of government debt.

In the context of your debate regarding MMT and the "private ownership" of the central bank, understanding Primary Dealers is the final puzzle piece that debunks the idea that the government is "enslaved" to private capital.

Here is how they work:

1. The Role: The Middleman
When the US Treasury issues new bonds (to "borrow" money), it does not sell them directly to you, me, or foreign governments on a website. It sells them via an auction.

Primary Dealers are the institutions approved to buy these bonds directly from the Treasury.

The Chain of Custody: US Treasury

Primary Dealers

The Rest of the World (Pension funds, foreign nations, individuals).
2. The Obligation: They Must Buy
This is the most critical point for MMT and government solvency. To be a Primary Dealer, you are required to bid in Treasury auctions.

This ensures that every auction is successful.
There is no scenario where the US government tries to sell debt and "nobody shows up to buy it." The Primary Dealers are contractually obligated to show up.

>>523997056
>>523997724
3. The Financing: Where do they get the money?
This creates a circular reality that supports the MMT view.

If Primary Dealers are low on cash (reserves) but are required to buy Treasury bonds, the Federal Reserve will lend them the money (via the "Repo Market") to buy the bonds.
The Loop: The Fed creates money

Lends to Primary Dealer

Primary Dealer buys Treasury Bond

Treasury spends money into the economy.
This proves that the private sector does not "fund" the government. The government (via the Fed) provides the liquidity that allows the Primary Dealers to "fund" the Treasury.

4. Who are they?
There are usually around 20–25 Primary Dealers. They include the massive household names of banking:

J.P. Morgan Securities
Goldman Sachs
Citigroup
Bank of America
Barclays
Why this matters for your debate
Your opponent argues that the government is "indebted to private banks."

The Primary Dealer system shows that while private banks (Dealers) technically "buy" the debt first, they act merely as pass-through entities. They are effectively a logistics arm of the Federal Reserve, ensuring that government debt is distributed smoothly into the market. They are not the "masters"; they are the "distributors."

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>>523997216
>central bank not being controlled by government
it isn't
the Fed brags about its independence, even though we know they are biased, partisan, greedy loons, too, that raise and lower rates during election cycles
five-time felon JPM is the greatest offender of trying to establish policy by lending:

<<<—JPM, the NYFed’s largest primary dealer and issuer of our currency, just fucked taxpaying American citizens looking for a car, desperate illegal hispanic immigrants and boomer investors all in one FRAUD!

JPM robbing illegal immigrants in the US with super high rate Tricolor loans, while also undercutting American citizens' ability to purchase cars.
JPM and Barclays using ITIN numbers to fleece desperate immigrants.
Then these two NYFed primary dealers are about to fleece investors out of billions, too, b/c they also sold these ridiculous subprime car loans as ABSs (asset-backed securities) kek.
https://www.livemint.com/companies/company-results/jpmorgan-fifth-third-among-banks-facing-losses-tied-to-tricolor-11757470534768.html


>enabling illegal immigration
>NYFed primary dealers
>new Dallas/Texas financial exchange and its 'value chain'
>increased rates for auto loans
>increased car prices
>US fucking government working directly to undermine the American middle class (of every fucking color, too)

I am going to say that JPM is an equal-opportunity fraudster, as the largest dealer of US debt and the bankrupt NYFed's biggest owner, JPM WILL ROB FUCKING ANYONE, it has no DEI preferences. So, in this way, JPM is very equitable.

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>>523998023
><<<—JPM, the NYFed’s largest primary dealer and issuer of our currency, just fucked taxpaying American citizens looking for a car, desperate illegal hispanic immigrants and boomer investors all in one FRAUD!
fucking kek
and these bankrupt scum have the nerve to call these social bonds PICREL
THIS IS THE FED MAKING FUCKING POLICY THROUGH CREDIT ALLOCATION

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>>523997804
>The government (via the Fed)
stop trying to equate a private bankrupt middleman banking franchise with our government
they ARE NOT THE SAME THING
the NYFed is .org lol

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>>523997804
>They are not the "masters"
they are and they are held accountable up to the amount of paid in tier one capital

The now-bankrupt Federal Reserve franchise collateralizes their worthless Federal Reserve Notes with US treasuries (aka securities).
The 12 Fed franchises are now bankrupt and don't have enough collateral to request more fiat. It is being suggested now to take regional Fed shareholder capital or even regional Fed owner’s assets to back their worthless Federal Reserve Notes under Section 2 of the Federal Reserve Act.

Every uncollateralized Federal Reserve Note being issued today is a lien on the assets (and shareholder capital) of the now-bankrupt NYFed's owners, including its largest owner, JPM.
How is JPM making record profits when the NYFed's private franchise ITSELF is ~$145B in the hole?
Why is JPM still being paid dividends when the NYFed is insolvent?

When money replaces actual success, only the sleazy will be rich.

>>523997321
I already did. skimmed through it and read the greentext. It was mostly about obsession with trans people, which is not what this is about, so I assume what was written in the greentext was what you wanted me to watch. You refused to give me a timestamp. I'm not going to make your argument for you, so either you write it out or you provide a timestamp. Also, a video clip is not an argument per se. You have to point out what you mean in the context, what your claim is, and what your evidence for it is. It's specifically the evidence for your claims I'm asking for.

>>523998522
>26 pbtid still refusing to do what he claims to want to do 'muh evidence', 'h-here's what i found on google'
Nobody cares what you post (everything is on the archive thread) and most pathetic of all (You) have no idea what you're even posting about or what this subject matter is. None

>>523998023
The fed is instated by the government. The government can control the fed any way it wants. The fact that they are independent doesn't counter this fact.

>>523998733
Again, just empty fallacies from your part. You're arguing in bad faith.

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>>523998733
i usually use shills/bots like that to bump my posts
kek
stop feeding the trolls
he has nothing to contribute nor defend
this is the pro-Fed shills' only defense:
to obfuscate because they can NOT retort, nor correct
and, lol, if they tried to update the amounts in the charts, they would only be higher and more bankrupt

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>>523998859
>'instated by'
The Federal Reserve was created by an unconstitutional Act of Congress in a concealed holiday vote. Nothing it has ever done has been within the purview of the United States Constitution or the prescription laid down by America's founders for national coinage, monetary policy or banking in this country. In other words it is an illegal rogue entity (and further has during the century of its existence become a template for establishment of other central banks worldwide)

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/451293951

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>>523998859
>The government can control the fed any way it wants.
no, but we can dissolve it
>lazy skimmers dread real price discovery
tick tock

>>523999109
>fallacies, 'bad faith'
Look who is talking, the dictionary example of each himself

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>>523999297
>'instated by'
kek whew
their game isn't getting any better, after all this time

>>523999422
idiot.

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>>523984547
>First of all, A sovereign government can never run out of money; they create it out of thin air. This is an indisputable fact.
holy fuck
this is wrong too
lol that was just the first sentence

>>523999561
>ad hominem
All you gotta do is not use google, not cast insults/ridicule, and post (You)r knowledge, comprehension & expertise here itt
It's simple

>>523999644
checked, his first several posts at top of thread are looney tunes

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>>523984547
>Second of all, taxes aren't used to fund anything at all.
this is also wrong lol
what tax receipts don't cover is the deficit
ok

>>523999883
I can use whatever I want as long as I stand behind the statements I posted.
I have cast no insult/ridicule.
I have posted my knowledge, comprehension and expertise here in this thread.
It's simple.

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First:
US Gold Notes and US Silver Notes are interest-free, metals-backed, NON-fiat notes that could be issued by the US Treasury TODAY.
US Notes are interest-free, fiat notes that could be issued by the US Treasury TODAY, they can also be metals-backed and were intended to be used as a tool for the citizens to trade.
Federal Reserve Notes are DEBT-BASED, fiat notes issued out of thin air by the privately-incorporated, now-BANKRUPT Federal Reserve 12 regional franchises and are currently bankrupting the US Treasury.

All of the above are ALL DENOMINATED IN US DOLLARS (aka $US), which is a fucking UNIT.

And secondly, there are FOUR ways currency is created in the US:
1 Congressionally-approved Public Issues treasuries for deficit spending via the issuance of marketable US treasuries sold by the NYFed’s primary dealers aka Debt Held by the Public (now ~$38 T)
2 Intragovernmental Debt GAS securities (aka ‘Unfunded Liabilities’) that are created/issued for currency to run public agencies (over ~$134 T now) and ARE PURCHASED WITH YOUR PAYROLL TAXES
3 The commercial tier 2 depository banking sector, it makes small loans in which only the interest remains in the banking system after the loan is paid back (the principal and repayments are destroyed when the loan is repaid) —this can remain when the Fed is dissolved
4 QE, this is fucking counterfeiting by the now-insolvent NYFed's primary dealers since 2008 via IOER (now called IORB) and we pay all sorts of interest on this, increasing every day with raising rates pic rel

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>>524000163
>I have posted my knowledge, comprehension and expertise here in this thread.
>It's simple.
kek

>>523999644
Just because something is written in the constitution doesn't mean that the government wont shit and piss all over it.
Do you not use paper money and non-precious metal coined money backed by nothing, to pay your debts?
Get real.

>>523984547
banks print money, governments borrow

>>524000342
corrected post:

just refuting your assertion that sovereign governments CAN'T** run out of money

if 'money' truly represents value to the citizen, like gold, silver and other low-oxidizing metals, its supply is finite and its value is dictated by the market/citizens and the govt can certainly run out of it

mining metals is a limit
congress itself is a limit
hoarding limits the supply
theft limits the supply
taxes limits the supply

>>524000342
i use many things to even up, including barter

>>524000553
If it's value is dictated by the market/citizens, then the government is per definition not sovereign in this regard. So my claim still stands.

>>523981082
There are no businesses and there are no governments. Its just (((their))) stage play.

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>>524000817
>governments borrow
Not only that
they make Interest Payments

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>>524000962
>If it's value is dictated by the market/citizens, then the government is per definition not sovereign in this regard
wut
lol this doesn't even make sense, your posts are idiotic, childish, nonsensical drivel
i will likely not reply to you again

kek
puc rel is the Fed telling hedge funds they better get their hidden debt out of the cayman islands and start reporting it

>>524001279
that is implied in borrow and yes therein lies the scam

>>524001279
that image needs a date/time period

>>524000873
see >>524000962
Also one of the reasons we now use the current system is because of how bad the market cycle was previously and how bank runs completely ruined the economy.

>>524000949
Yeah, sure, but not with debt to the government, like taxes and fines, etc.
We are talking about legal tender.

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ok
been reading all morning
got to rest my eyes
>>524001279
see you later with that rand paul thread

picrel for new anons:
the Federal Reserve franchises have their dream come true, note the right side of the chart, high reserves and high IORB at the same time
the last time they tried to have both, JPM got raided by the FBI for rigging treasury and silver markets which caused the repo spike, all big banks failed again quietly and got bailed out again for trillions in Sept/Oct 2019 and then we had covid, which shut down the economy and conveniently hid their illiquidity lol

>>524001631

FY 2021
https://www.crfb.org/papers/how-high-are-federal-interest-payments

>>524001833
checked, will do

>>524001733
>the government
kek the govt seizes possessions all of the fucking time
houses, cars, jewelry, guns, land, deeds
THIS IS ALSO FUCKING BARTER

>>524001534
It does make sense. We are talking about sovereign money.
The government - if it has a sovereign currency - has the power to print its own currency and buy up its own debt in its own currency, and therefore directly influence its value.

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>>524001642
>one of the reasons we now use the current system is because of how bad the market cycle was previously
>the banks purposely destroyed US Notes

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>>524002089
>if it has a sovereign currency -
it fucking doesn't, though

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>>523981082
Businesses pay both sides. They're not really aligned with either, nor are they opposed to either, business simply wants to keep making money and will pretend to have whatever other values facilitate that. No business has an issue with paying a Republican over here and a Democrat over there as long as those two have power in their respective areas that has some impact on the business.

Lots of people have trouble with this, but any garden variety communist would know the right answer immediately; businesses only pretend to have values other than profit. Young people on both sides got tricked during the BLM, ultra-woke-corp era into thinking the businesses actually meant it, whether they supported or not, and I'd imagine many on both sides are confused now that they're seeing the beginnings of a backslide away from that. But it makes perfect sense, they never really meant it, and they won't really mean whatever they do next either.

Most people only figure it out once they've lived long enough to see the cycle go back and forth two or three times.

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>>524002089
>buy up its own debt
and NOW WE ARE right back to the problem of issuing debt as currency
DEBT IS THE FUCKING DIRECTION OF A TRANSACTION, THAT IS ALL

the currency must not be borrowed, nor issued in the form of debt
the currency must be returned to the citizens if the nation is to survive
we need to nationalize the BANKRUPT-AND-STILL-DRAINING-THE-US 12 regional Federal Reserve private franchises and let the US Treasury resume its role of currency issuer

we are now issuing debt to pay the interest on debt
pic rel from 1791
why we should never have an incorporated debt-based central bank

>>524002149
Nice so 1802 austria Hungary and burnng at the stake

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A reminder, Federal Reserve Notes are what are being issued to worthless oblivion and
>the US dollar is a fucking UNIT

We need to AGAIN issue debt-free, Treasury-issued US Notes like we did before (and during) the bloodsucking, obsolete Federal Reserve. We need to AGAIN issue debt-free US Notes that are pegged to a basket of commonly-used weighted commodities, distributed by a series of state banks.

We can:
1 nationalize Fed banks
OR
2 dissolve Fed and have a series of state banks
OR
3 issue US Notes simultaneously AGAIN and eventually recycle worthless Federal Reserve Notes out of circulation
OR
4 YOU CAN RIGHT NOW: use cash/barter/stack/use credit unions/use cold wallets, these five things IMMEDIATELY transfer power directly to the people

USE CASH, NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY YOU ARE IN, cash IMMEDIATELY puts the power in the hands of the people.

Real paper cash:
>is permissionless
>is private
>is anonymous
>has no transaction fees
>works in power outages
>doesn’t need the internet
>don't need to be a coder to use it
>doesn't depend on another party having a device
>everyone knows exactly how much they have
>has no transaction limits or thresholds for reporting
>money laundering is harder with physical cash, due to transport
>is inclusive, it does not see race
>is harder to use in ransoms
>can’t be hacked
>don’t need to remember a password to use it
>IS the ultimate in payment platforms
>using cash helps people to save money and budget
>puts the power directly in the hands of the people
>keeps the currency near the REAL goods and services
>less paperwork
>is face to face, not face to screen
>makes government theft harder
>using cash forces the debt-based Federal Reserve to serve the citizens

Boycott businesses that do not take cash.
NEVER USE YOUR PHONE TO PAY.
Barter is the real torpedo to these fucking clowns.

>>524002548
>the currency must not be borrowed, nor issued in the form of debt
>the currency must be returned to the citizens if the nation is to survive
why?

>we need to nationalize the BANKRUPT-AND-STILL-DRAINING-THE-US 12 regional Federal Reserve private franchises and let the US Treasury resume its role of currency issuer
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. Could you elaborate a little bit?

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>using cash forces the debt-based Federal Reserve to serve the citizens
the great irony here, is the more cash the public uses, the more it forces the Fed franchises to hold interest-free fiat as liabilities (aka CIC cash in circulation) and thus, making US taxpayers’ dollars less available to be spent paying out the liabilities of IORB to primary dealers and interest on reverse repo transactions to MMFs
pic fucking related, especially the last 20 fucking words

USE FUCKING CASH
NEVER USE YOUR PHONE TO PAY

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>>523981082
I have no problem with the government taxing rich people more, or even myself more, provided that government spending took care of the essentials the middle class spend so much of their income on.

On paper I do like the idea of socialism and governments providing for its people. But the in the modern day implementation of that, they spend so much money on ridiculous shit that it only devalues what money I do keep. And their basic premise is tax the rich who create value and give it to the poor who are net consumers of value. Why would anyone be motivated to work hard or achieve upward mobility when the socialists will just give my hard earned money away to people who don't work? For that reason, I prefer the right's version which is free market, where yea I have to fend for myself, but at least I spend money more wisely than the government does.

PS: I live in NYC and about 500,000 midwestern liberal transplants just voted in our doom.

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>>524003288
>Could you elaborate a little bit?

Notice on the top half of pic rel the NYFed squeezes out the citizens' currency and pays its ilk IORB and RRP instead, while also buying houses and bonds.
The NYFed clearly prioritizes enriching its private owner banks over the citizens having a currency
why doesn't Trump ever mention this?
b/c fucking Trump thinks the NYFed is the house
the FUCKING US TAXPAYER IS THE FUCKING HOUSE

and what FINALLY the US Senate and Homeland Security is now talking about as seen in image in >>523994727

ok i have to go
read a fucking book for christ sake

>>523981082
>Do you think businesses align with the left to support them
The thing you need to understand is that we are in a post-capitalist economy and society. The effect of things like the amount of net profit the company is earning only have small, if any, effect on the perceived value of a company. The perceived value of a company today is based on speculation about the future value of that company.
The reason so many companies started pandering to the Left and leftist causes so much over the past couple of decades started as an unfounded assumption or meme that eventually became accepted conventional wisdom that younger generations of investors (millennials) would care a lot about the environment and diversity and shit, to the extent that it would be a major factor in how they choose which companies that they would invest in.
So then the conventional wisdom evolved into "the companies which have more pro environmental policies, etc will be more appealing to younger investors, and more investors wanting to invest in a company causes the price of shares to increase, therefore being pro-green will cause a company's value to increase."
This evolved into the creation of ESG scores, where companies were basically rated on how much they supported woke lefty stuff like DEIA, LGBT, green, etc.
This allowed large institutional investors and people managing things like what state employee pension plans invested in, to quantify this "go woke, share price go up" assumption. Even if they didn't really believe in woke shit, they basically had a duty to invest more in something that would cause the line to go up.
Then all the Boards and CEOs of every company started thinking that they needed to go all in on the woke shit, because it would increase the value of the company's shares. Meanwhile, they hire some trans black lesbianx Shaniqua consultant who would lecture them about how if they don't go full CRT DEIA BLM LGBT batshit crazy, the company will immediately fail.

>>524003502
You don't personally spend money on vital infrastructure that's of benefit to you and everyone else in society. That's only really the government that can do that.
Even the money that's payed to people that don't work, still goes back into the economy and circulates and goes in to your pocket whenever they buy goods and services in the economy. The ones that sell these goods and services will then receive money that those poor or lazy or sick people would otherwise not have had in their hands to spend into the economy. But such a model would only be truly fair if everyone got free money from the government aka UBI. This way there wouldn't be a sentiment gap between staying on welfare and having a job.
UBI would stimulate the economy like no one can imagine. It would set us all free from oppressive working conditions and toxic dependent relationships, and it would allow people to take a break from stress and so on when they need it, increasing health and wellbeing, and from that comes an increase in productivity and better community and social life. It also creates better social mobility. It's basically 'fuck you money' enabling you to require decent working conditions from your employer.