There's no possible way this could've succeeded.Even if the US and UK stayed neutral Germany had no resources or logistics to actually topple the entire Soviet Union. The Soviets would've taken over all of Germany if the Allies didn't split it into half
>>524130551Germany not having 4 engine long range strategic bombers sealed their fate.
Stalin was just biding his time before launching his own attack on Germany anyway. As soon as the Red Army was fully modernized he would have immediately declared war. Germany needed resources from Russia as well.
This isan internet argument as old as the hills. Hitler's campaign (really, Germany's commanders) could have succeeded if:A 13:1 casualty rate caused the khazaks to desert the USSR. It should have. B. The whermacht had taken Volgograd. Which they almost did.C. America hadn't bankrolled the soviets, which was illegal by act of congress (but America did)D. Hitler had developed the bomb. Unlikely, but then the Americans developing it was equally unlikely. E. The SS pulled off some kind of coup in the kafkas, limiting the fuel reserves of the USSR. (Again, debatable)If Hitler had have tried it 5 times, he'd have won 3. But he only got one shot, and he lost.
It wouldnt have succeded because Hitler was out of his mind by that point, he lost the plot, he was too engulfed in emotion instead of reason to keep Germany going.
>>524131191>America hadn't bankrolled the soviets, which was illegal by act of congress (but America did)We didn't just bankroll them dude, this is what so many of history midwits don't get. We literally sent them tanks and planes. We sent them guns and gear. Without American equipment, like half the ruskis the germans would have encountered would have been essentially naked. The soviets had literally zero capability to stop the germans without lend lease.
>>524130551>The Soviets would've taken over all of Germany if the Allies didn't split it into halfWhy do trannies believe this? There wasn’t a single Soviet military operation which succeeded witbout HEAVY indirect Allied aid.
>>524133311Almost all the Soviet divisions facing AGN were equipped with British weapons and vehicles. In the Caucasus in 1942, the entire Soviet transcaucasian force opposing Germany in the mountains was ENTIRELY equipped eith British material. That material was ripped straight from british military units in Iraq and Iran, and hurriedly sent up to arm the Transcaucasus soviet force.Notice I havent even mentioned the US aid yet.Many soviet divisions were equipped by the US, to the point where the armaments of British forces in Italy, and Soviet forces in the Black Sea region, were exactly the same.>ford trucks>sherman tanks>US 9mm ammo for their smgs>US boots>US food cans (insanely important)
>>524131191Ugh
>>524133619>>524133311In Italy and in the USSR, US equipment was very common. In Normandy, the british units there were equipped with their own weapons. Interestingly, soviet units facing AGN were equipped by british gear too.It was simply more efficient to keep normandy and AGN region with english gear, and then for the US to pump its own aid directly up through the med.
>>524130551It would've if Mussolini hadn't fucked up in Greece and Hitler had attacked in march / april instead of june.
Nothing will ever change history but the absence of lend lease would almost certainly result in the downfall of the soviets. As an example, something like 55% of the aluminum the soviets had access to was shipped to them by america and britain, which was integral for many military technologies at the time
>>524131191Hitler didn't need the bomb. Unironically the German war machine had enough deadly chemical weapons and a delivery systems to absolutely annihilate the Allies stockpiled by 1943. Hitler thought it immoral to use them. Contrary to popular belief, Paperclip wasn't so much about muh rockets as it was acquiring Farben's chemical and biological weapons program engineers. The V-2 actually sucked pretty badly, and most of the German "rocket scientists" were just retards that got their position in the German war machine through nepotism. We sent a sizeable fraction of the back to Germany.The real shitty thing is that the US could have literally been the Nazi's in Man in the High Castle. We should have nuked Moscow, Leningrad, and Beijing like LeMay wanted. US legitimately missed it's shot at real global hegemony, especially if we were the only ones on the planet with nuclear weapons.
>>524131191>>524133311most of lend lease didn't arrive until 1943 at least and Hitler was the one who declared war on the USA, pre-emptively. Here's the actual scenarios for a German / Axis victory:>stop before the Polish invasiondebatable exactly when but one of the Anschulss, seizure of Czechoslovakia, or the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Yes the USSR may have still attacked later but that's not guaranteed and a far different diplomatic situation than Germany invading Poland. >take MoscowDecember 1941 is the pivotal moment in our timeline. It's when the Axis are pushed back with fresh siberian troops and Hitler declares war on the USA allowing it to openly oppose Germany. For this one Hitler would need to convince Japan to not sign a non-aggression pact which would keep those Siberian troops in the east. Also to not declare war on America. Why would he? Japan didn't declare war on the USSR to help Germany. Even if they take Moscow it's no guarantee the USSR would surrender, Napoleon took it, and he got there faster, and it didn't matter in the end.>take StalingradBy this time Axis losses are so high that the war is likely lost regardless, but sure, there is some slim chance they could pull it out.
>>524130551The failure to take Astrakhan or get anywhere near Archanglesk or however the fuck that's spelt pretty well sealed it when they bogged down at Moscow. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't though. The USSR was rapidly industrialising and every year that went on the threat was increasing.
>>524134207You are failing to realize that the importance of lend lease didn't come from weight of trucks sent, or grain sent, but came from it's ability to fill critical shortages in important materiel (but the fact that we supplied almost all of their fuel didnt hurt, obviously)
>>524130551Unironically, Hitler would’ve defeated the Soviet Union if he was more willing to work with other Europeans. If he promised the complete uninhibited liberation of the Eastern Europeans as well as gave Petain complete control over all of France, Hitler would’ve won the war. Butler’s biggest failure was his lack of trust of other Europeans, and the one ally he did decided to put all his faith into (Italy) was the worst possible ally to do so in.
>>524130551Literally Stalin himself contradicts you fucking retard.Stalin said verbatim that USSR would have lost without both the UK/USA attacking from the western flank AND providing them the most massive military aid ever seen in the world before or sinceFor comparison to what has been given to ukraine it was over TWO HUNDRED TIMES MORE people don't understand the sheer scale of the Lend-Lease it was something astonishing in fact how the production doesnt exist in same way in the West nowadays even if all of the West combined put all its power to producing weaponry, such massive scale of the Lend Lease couldnt still be matched not even closeOh and who said that Stalin said this? Nikita Krutshev in his meroirs a soviet premier a friend of Stalin and his political progeny, before you start shouting "its all lies" or some bullshitAnd of course Stalin didn't need to say that because every single historian and military strategist also knows this fact, USSR jews absolutely could not have taken over Europe if the USA/UK kikes didn't help them
>>524134605Still just doesn't really matter by December 1941 when the turning point is reached. The Japanese-Soviet non-aggression pact is far more of a factor. Never should have trusted a Nip
>>524134207Germany indeed honored the Tripartite Pact and declared war on USA without any intention to obviously ever actually invade US mainland, but Hitler did want Japan to declare war on the Soviet Union so USSR would be forced too to a two-front war and have to deploy troops to the East but it didnt happen so Germany shoot their own foot there for nothing.That being said Germany had a good reason to believe that first of all the American public wouldn't want to go to war against Europe as polling showed Americans be extremely against it.And secondly, even if the kikes in USA convinced Americans to fight for them, Hitler thought he could just force USA to stay out of the war.How? Simple, by the wonder weapon that was U-boats. They were undisputable invincible gods of the sea at the time, capable of sinking any ship without ever being detected so they were an uncounterable superweapon.So with Germans holding the Atlantic, the Americans couldn't have come over even if they wanted to, all their ships would just be sunk and the men go to bottom of the ocean.But what he didn't anticipate is the very unlucky timing of the invention of radar that changed EVERYTHING.Suddenly, U-boats went from being completely undetectable and invincible to easily be found out by ships and planes, and hunted down and bombed.That turned the situation in the Atlantic around entirely and Germany started losing massive amount of U-boats and lost the control of Atlantic entirely
>>524130551Without American lend lease the USSR would have fallen almost immediately.Also imagine if Japan invaded the East.We're living in the worst timeline.
>>524136031Yeah exactly, the point is that in fact Germany had many different possible timelines to victory and far fewer ones to losing, we got the worst possible outcome.
>>524131285He should have used chemical weapons and killed everybody in Dunkirk.He should have waited for Barbarossa and taken the fuel from the dying British Empire.
>>524136910>we got the worst possible outcome.Well... they still defeated France and conquered Scandinavia, right?They almost conquered Stalingrad and blocked the Volga.It's not the absolute worse but around the bottom of possible timelines.
>>524133957People forget that the liquid-fueled rocket was invented by AN AMERICAN decades before the V2 (Goddard.) And he'd tried to get the military to finance his research into building bigger rockets before and during the war. They said no thanks so he spent the time making smaller "sounding" rockets for the Navy. The V2 was a contribution to rocketry but the German's weren't the only innovators and America had plenty of talent.
>>524134846They really dont make tanks and plains as simple and cheap anymore.
>>524139366Yeah the weapon systems are indeed much much more complex but what I was talking about is that the industrial capacity simply isn't there anymoreAnd also the military gear being less specialized it meant that a factory that made for example auto parts could make tanks instead and a civilian aeroplane plant would pivot to making bombers, and total pivots like some furniture maker would be making grenades, things like that.Its not just that much of the industry has been outsourced overseas but also that the remaining industry is so specialized and modern military hardware so complex that you cant just turn the entire country's factories that were producing something else to producing weapons like they did back in WWII
>>524130551The Nazis were a conspiracy to suicide Germans. Everything they did was retarded and suicidal.
naw, they got pretty close. pure 1v1 would have ended in slaughter
