Should you believe the Trinity? The Trinity is a Helenistic philosophical idea and pagan belief. Not a Biblical teaching. We know this because of the definitions used to describe it: Essence, substance, nature, homoousios, and persons is all Greek metaphysical terms originating in Helenistic Philosophy going back to Plato and Aristotle. The word hypostatic union comes from hypostasis. It is a philosophical idea from Helenistic Greek Philosophy. The Trinity can only be supported with pagan doctrine. These terms and beliefs are not found in the Bible but in Plato, Aristotle, and Pythagoras. The Trinity can be traced back through old triad gods, Greek Philosophy, and Hindu avatarism.The definitions of the Trinity itself: Essence, substance, nature, homoousios, persons, hypostatic union are from Plato, Aristotle, and Pythagoras all taught these centuries before Jesus was born. Just trace "hypostatic union" on Wikipedia. It goes straight back to Plato, Aristotle and Neoplatonism.Think about this: If I started using word like "Means of Labor," "bourgeoisie," "proletariat," "Base and superstructure" and called myself a Libertarian you'd all cry foul and accuse me of being a Marxist and Communist. Why? Because all my terminology used to describe "Libertarian" ideology is all Marxist in nature. You would all call me a fraud.Why not with the Trinty? That's where the entire definition of the Trinity comes from. None of the terminologies, definitions, and understanding of the Trinity comes from the Bible. It all comes from Greek Philosophy, Stoicism, Hindus, and Pagans.
Perplexed jew here, ask me anything
>>524339188All Christian spammers are jeets.
>>524339188So you're an evangelical. You must really believe in "baptism."Well baptism was also pagan (I cite a source too, A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell). It started with Gaulish tribes bathing infants in calf blood. Christians evolved the practice using the, also evangelical, idea of the "blood of the lamb." They used water symbolic of the blood of the lamb, which used to be a calf (from the Age of Taurus), because the Pure Spirit moved over the face of the waters. This "evolution" or Final Cause is the very essence of the Cross. The Sacred Tradition is guided by the Holy Ghost, who "moved across the face of the waters." In layman's terms, all the pagan rituals are "consummated" in Christ by the Cross. This can be applied to any SACRAMENT of Roman Catholicism, such as Communion being the consummation of Temple of Isis fellatio rituals.
Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!Early in the morning our song shall rise to thee.Holy, holy, holy! merciful and mighty!God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!
>>524339188>Philippians Chapter 2: 9. For this very reason also God EXALTED him to a superior position and kindly GAVE HIM the name that is above every other name....Why does God exalt God? How can God give God a name above every other name?>Hebrews Chapter 4: 8 Although HE WAS A SON, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE from the things he suffered: 9. and after he had BEEN MADE PERFECT he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.Who could teach God a lesson? Who does God have to learn to obey? Who could teach God obedience? How can God be perfected? Isn't he already perfect?>1 Corinthians Chapter 15: 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, THEN THE SON HIMSELF WILL ALSO SUBJECT HIMSELF TO THE ONE WHO SUBJECTED ALL THINGS TO HIM, that God may be all things to everyoneHow can God subject himself to himself? How can God depend on God to subject everything to him? Isn't everything already subjected under him?>(1 Corinthians 15:27) For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ IT IS EVIDENT THAT IT IS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ONE WHO SUBJECTED ALL THINGS TO HIM.So everything is subjected to Jesus except God himself? If Jesus is God what's the point of pointing that out?>(1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.Self-explanatory>(1 Corinthians 15:24) Next, the end, WHEN HE HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM TO HIS GOD AND FATHER, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.God hands over the kingdom to himself?
>>524339676Evangelicals are Trinitarians, Papistbro. Direct your ire at appropriate targets. You would do well to be more ecumenical in a world where Christians are vastly outnumbered.
>>524339676>So you're an evangelical.No
>>524340012>Christians are vastly outnumbered.As of 2025, there are approximately 734 million Christians in Africa.
no, its not fixed at 3. but you should research the trinity because it helps (normies) understand the basic conceptual problem which is necessitated for a god which must create itself. past that, you want to read plato, and S-tier is Parmenides, the one all the neo-platonists and christian philosophers got stuck on.
>>524340225poos in india?chinese atheists?european "raised christian, spiritual, not religious"?
The verse below completely invalidates the belief that God was conscious in Jesus while simultaneously being in heaven himself.>(John 8:17, 18) Also, in YOUR own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ 18I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.”If Jesus and God were the same person, same mind, same consciousness, the Law of Two Witnesses would not apply to Jesus testimony. This law could only apply if TWO DISTINCT INDIVIDUALS exist.Not only that but Jesus makes it very clear that he has his own power of choosing, his own faculty of consciousness, and his own wishfullness and desires SEPARATE and DISTINCT from his father. All that I just said is described in the Bible as "will" and "initiative.">(Mark 14:36) And he went on to say: “Abba, Father, all things are possible to you; remove this cup from me. Yet not what I want, but what you want.”>(Luke 22:42) saying: “Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.”>(Hebrews 10:9) then he actually says: “Look! I am come to do your will.” He does away with what is first that he may establish what is second.>(Matthew 26:39) And going a little way forward, he fell upon his face, praying and saying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”>(John 5:30) I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.>(John 6:38) because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.
>>524339188Christians have no philosophy other than world ending mob rule. They can't even use 80% of Jewish books that have all the Jewish philosophy in them. Christianity is an ancient pamphlet religion used by Jews to spark riots in Roman cities.
>>524339188bump
>>524340537>Christians are vastly outnumbered.As of 2025, there are approximately 734 million Christians in Africa.
>>524340641Why create a whole other religion to cause civil unrest if the Jews were already doing that themselves?>Simon bar Kokhba the Jewish Messiahhttp://www.menorah.org/tragicms.htmlhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revoltFought circa 132–136 AD>"Cochba [bar Kochba] ... tortured and killed the Christians who refused to aid him against the Roman army." - p. 42, Greek Apologists of the Second Century, Robert M. Grant, The Westminster Press, 1988.>" ... Bar Kochba, the leader of the insurrection, ordered Christians alone to be executed if they would not deny and curse Jesus the Messiah." - Justin Martyr Ibid.>"(A.D. 132-135). A pseudo-Messiah, Bar-Cochba (son of the stars, Num. 24:17), afterwards called Bar-Cosiba (son of falsehood), put himself at the head of the rebels, and caused all the Christians who would not join him to be most cruelly murdered." – p. 37, History of the Christian Church, Philip Schaff Vol. II, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1995 reprint.>It was the generation following the destruction of the Temple which brought about a final rupture between Jews and Christians .... In the third rebellion against Rome [132-135 A.D.], when the Christians were unable to accept bar Kochba as their Messiah, they declared that their kingdom was of the other world, and withdrew themselves completely from Judaism and everything Jewish. The alienation process was completed. Judaism and Christianity became strangers to each other ..... [pp. 152, 153, Jews, God and History, Max I. Dimont, A Signet Book, 1962.]>Not everybody agreed to Aqiba's view that Simon [Bar Kochba] was the Messiah. The Jewish Christians refused to accept this claim; the Christian author Justin Martyr tells that Simon commanded Christians 'to be lead away to terrible punishment,' unless they denied Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and cursed the man from Nazareth (First Apology 31.6). -http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/jwar07.html
>>524340969>734 million Christians in Africa.In Name Only. 99% of Christians are not and never were Christian to begin with.
>>524341089>That's not REAL Christcuckery!Ok Rajesh >>524339437
>>524339188Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies of the Messiah and also demonstrate the eternal truths of Neoplatonism. It's a miracle, and you're welcome! Christ is Lord!
>>524341122>All of this was created by Christians. It's like you claiming that Christians don't exist because they're descended from pagans.>(2 Timothy 4:3, 4) For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.>(Matthew 7:21) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.>(Matthew 7:15) “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.>(Acts 20:29) I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness,>(2 Peter 2:1) However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.>(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,Most "Christians" aren't even Christians by Biblical standards. Most people are not aware that Christians are not Christians just because they say so or identify as one. No more than a Transfag is a "woman" because he says so or he identifies as one. There are rules, laws, and specifications one must have to be something.99% of Christians on Earth today are not Christians at all but morons who are unaware of their Un-Christian state. Less than 1% of Christendom on earth today IS THE REAL Christianity. Sects that are involved in worldly affairs are false Sects.
>>524341270>That's not REAL Christcuckery!Ok Rajesh >>524339437
>>524339188
>>524339188matter and spirit create consciousness. water to join the two; water is a dipole antenna.
>>524341747>"... the doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; that it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian scriptures; that it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers."– p. 34, The Church of the First Three Centuries, Alvan Lamson, D.D. (see WT 15 Oct. 1978, p. 32.)>“The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.>"Nor is it only in historical religions that we find God viewed as a trinity. One recalls in particular the Neoplatonic view of the Supreme or Ultimate Reality which was suggested by Plato." - Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Hastings, p. 458, vol. XII.>“The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are Greek philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—John L. McKenzie, S.J., Dictionary of the Bible (New York, 1965), p. 899
>>524341747>>524341946>"All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods. For as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bound by threes, for the end, the middle, and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the trinity." - Aristotle, as quoted in Paganism in our Christianity, Arthur Weigall, p. 198, Putnam, NY. (Weigall is quoting from On the Heavens, Bk I, ch. i., by Aristotle who died 322 B.C.)>"They appear to have regarded Pythagoras as a divine being [founders of religions tend to `develop' into a divinity or deity for that religion after a period of time] a status which he shared with certain numbers also, particularly one, three, and ten." "Neo-Pythagoreanism's importance consists chiefly in its influence on Neoplatonism ... and on Christian [?] Theology by Clement of Alexandria (150-220 A. D.)." The Greek Philosophers, Warner, p. 219, 1958.>"Nor is it only in historical religions that we find God viewed as a trinity. One recalls in particular the Neoplatonic view of the Supreme or Ultimate Reality which was suggested by Plato." - Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Hastings, p. 458, vol. XII
Why are poo jews allowed to spam antichritian threads 24/7 and I got banned for a Christian thread? Jannies are trannies.
>>524342029>Why are poo jews allowed to spam antichritian threads 24/7All Christian spammers are jeets >>524339437
>>524339188God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are different manifestations of the same.Whats so hard to grasp?Also this is teology mainly you are argueing, Jesus or Yawneh did not spoke of the Trinity, Jesus as the "Son of Man", meaning somehow that He is the God of Man, as personified."From now on, only through Me you can reach the Father", it implies many things:1. almost, but not the same = a different manifestation2. A new game, new rules = a new covenant, which is expected from the coming of the Messiah.
>The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” > Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. > Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” > The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” > Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”> So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”Jesus said to them,“Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
>>524340969you said that, maybe ill rephrase:how many poos are there in india?how many chinese atheists?how many european "raised christian, spiritual, not religious"?those are christian numbers btw, christian numbers are jewish numbers. theyre overinflated exaggerations. has been ever since its inception. one guy converts and makes it illegal to be anything else, so overnight christianity has 5 million members? is that how it works, its like a prison?
>>524339188You are by definition not a Christian if you don't believe in the trinity. You worship a different god.
>>524342759ooh look he said the thing! the guy whose name means "yahweh is salvation" said the thing! just like yahweh!
>>524342791>That's not REAL Christcuckery!Ok Rajesh >>524339437
>>524339188(You) are a trinityeach part can be separated. body, mind and souland each part would still be you
>>524342471>Whats so hard to grasp?This >>524339188>>524339994>>524340588>>524341946>>524341975>>524342877Agreed. I worship a different God. I worship Jehovah, the only true God. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel. You worship a nameless "LORD" that exist in confusion and Greek philosophy.
>>524342759I AMActually, God didn't say "I AM" in Ex 3:14. In Greek, he said "Ego ei'mi ho'on" and Jesus said "Ego ei'mi" in John 8:58. Literally, "Ego ei'mi ho'on" means "I am the being" whereas Jesus phrase translates literally to "I am." Those are literal translations though without the meaning in tact. In English, God said "I become whatever I have to become" or "I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be."In John 8:58 Jesus wasn't talking about his identity but of his age. Ego'ei'mi is used to describe an event that happened in the past that continues down to this day. Trinitarians said that Jesus words were in the present tense, on the contrary, they are in the TEMPORAL tense. Ego'ei'mi is used by others in the Bible and do not point to God but to an event that happened in the past and continues down to their present.CONTINUED
>>524342759>>524343196“I HAVE BEEN”[4] - alternate reading in 1960 thru 1973 reference editions of NASB(2) “I HAVE BEEN” - The New Testament, G. R. Noyes(3) “I HAVE BEEN” - “The Four Gospels” According to the Sinaitic Palimpsest, A. S. Lewis(4) “I HAVE ALREADY BEEN” - The Unvarnished New Testament(5) “I HAVE EXISTED” - The Bible, A New Translation, Dr. James Moffatt(6) “I EXISTED” - The New Testament in the Language of Today, 1964 ed., Beck(7) “I EXISTED” - An American Translation, Goodspeed(8) “I EXISTED” - The New Testament in the Language of the People, Williams(9) “I EXISTED” - New Simplified Bible(10) “I WAS IN EXISTENCE” - Living Bible(11) “I WAS ALIVE” - The Simple English Bible(12)“I WAS” - Holy Bible - From the Ancient Eastern Text, Lamsa(13)“I WAS” - Young’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1st ed. (Also see Young’s ConciseCritical Commentary, p. 61 of “The New Covenant.”).(14) “I WAS” - The Syriac New Testament, Jas. Murdock(15) “I WAS” - H. T. Anderson(16) “I WAS” - Twentieth Century New TestamentThe Trinity doctrine is not Biblical. It is only supported through fallacies, spurious verses and incorrect translated verses. This is a good example up above. All the other Trinity "proof text" are also translated under the same bias as well.Continued
>>524342759>>524343196>>524343232Ego'ei'mi is used by others in the Bible and do not point to God but to an event that happened in the past and continues down to their present.>(Luke 2:48) Now when they saw him they were astounded, and his mother said to him: “Child, why did you treat us this way? Here your father and I in mental distress have been(Ego'ei'mi) looking for you.”>(John 5:6) Seeing this man lying down, and being aware that he had already been (Ego'ei'mi) [sick] a long time, Jesus said to him: “Do you want to become sound in health?”>(1 John 3:8) He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been(Ego'ei'mi) sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil.>(Matthew 8:9) For I too am(Ego'ei'mi) a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me, and I say to this one, ‘Be on your way!’ and he is on his way, and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”>(2 Corinthians 12:19) Have YOU been(Ego'ei'mi) thinking all this while that we have been(Ego'ei'mi) making our defense to YOU? It is before God that we are speaking in connection with Christ. But, beloved ones, all things are for YOUR upbuilding.Wherever you see "have been" or "has been" " I been" is literally "I AM." So Jesus in John 8:58 meant to say "I HAVE BEEN existing before Abraham."
>>524339848my homey who was a heroin addict used to sing this hymn. RIP
>>524342759>>524343196>>524343232>>524343262The Sahidic Coptic written 1,700 years ago by the ancient Egyptian Christians of the time during when Sahidic Coptic and Koine Greek were both alive and used at the time. They translated Ex 3:14EX 3:14 anok pe petSoop which is "I AM THE-EXISTING-ONE[BEING] and according to the Sahidic Coptic 1,700 years ago Jesus said in John 8:58:empate abraHam Swpe anok TSoop. "before Abraham became I existed."If you notice, EX3:14 says in Coptic petSoop or THE BEING whereas in John 8:58 in Coptic is Soop for existed. So the Egyptians, 1,700 years ago didn't see Jesus identifying himself as the petSoop(THE BEING) in Ex3:14 rather they had him say Soop for "existed" which from their understanding Jesus meant to say that he just merely existed before Abraham.SAHIDIC COPTIC OF JOHN 8:58>ΜΠΑΤЄ ΑΒΡΑϨΑΜ ϢШΠЄ ΑΝΟΚ ϯϢΟΟΠ.Transliteration>ΜΠΑΤЄ=BEFORE>ΑΒΡΑϨΑΜ=ABRAHAM>ϢШΠЄ=CAME INTO EXISTENCE>ΑΝΟΚ=I>ϯϢΟΟΠ=IN EXISTENCEBEFORE ABRAHAM CAME INTO EXISTENCE I IN EXISTENCE.TranslationBefore Abraham comes into existence, I in existence.It's the same thing as all the other ancient manuscripts and early Bibles. The key is ΑΝΟΚ ϯϢΟΟΠ or I (AM) IN EXISTENCEϢΟΟΠ = "(Is) in existence." -- Ariel Shisah HaLevy, Coptic Grammatical Chrestomathy, p. 248So 1,700 years ago the Egyptian Christians understood John 8:58 the same way JW do today.
>>524343294>talks like a nigger>drug addicted retardsTypical Christians.
>>524340588>(Hebrews 10:9) then he actually sayslook faggot. YOU ADDED THE WORD ACTUALLY AND YOU NEED TO STOP
>>524343042the jew worship shilling chatbot seems to have broken
>>524343232>>524340588I>>524343311
>>524343409Ok Rajesh >>524339437
>>524343405Fine, post a different translation.
>>524339188What on earth are you babbling on about, you loon? The Lord made salvation so simple, whereas a good sign of a bad actor - and man's constant struggle - is the temptation to overcomplicate a concept, for the sake of making it more convoluted, to then appear more intelligent, like you are doing here.Regardless, Jehovah's Witnesses is a FALSE DOCTRINE; the trinity is right through the bible, plain to see - to deny it is to give space for satan to sow further doubt.
>>524343791It's not simple, it's confusion. It prevents people from approaching God and developing a relationship with him. Not only that, but in the Bible Jehovah uses confusion as a weapon against his people's enemies.>Judges 4:15-15Then Jehovah threw Sisʹe·ra and all his war chariots and all the army into confusion before the sword of Baʹrak. Finally Sisʹe·ra got down from his chariot and fled on foot.>Exodus 14:24During the morning watch, Jehovah looked at the camp of the Egyptians from within the pillar of fire and cloud, and he threw the camp of the Egyptians into confusion.>Joshua 10:10Jehovah threw them into confusion before Israel, and they inflicted a great slaughter on them at Gibʹe·on, pursuing them by way of the ascent of Beth-hoʹron and striking them down as far as A·zeʹkah and Mak·keʹdah.>Exodus 23:27-27“I will send the fear of me ahead of you, and I will throw into confusion all the people you encounter, and I will cause all your enemies to flee from you in defeat.Since the Trinity is confusing there are only two possibilities. Either God is confusing his own people OR the Devil is also weaponising confusion as well to prevent people from approaching God.
>>524343791There is plenty of reason to deny the Trinity. >>524339188>>524339994 >>524340588 >>524341946 >>524341975 The Trinity is also upheld through mistranslated. >>524343196>>524343232>>524343262>>524343311
>>524339188>>524339994>>524340184>>524340588Arius getting mighty heretical up in here...
>>524340641Christians in the Roman empire were actually pretty chill, Rome mainly had to adopt it because it created pacifism in the military.
>>524339188My thread got a sequel? Interesting.
>>524342877Yeah, you worship the god of the bible instead the church's made-up bullshit.
>>524344164I don't know much about Jehovah's witnesses but the government and Christians shill so much against you. They act like you guys are worse than Muslims and Mormons.
>>524344434You faggots would probably ban Arianism before Judaism and Islam.
>>524339188Jesus prayed because he was in a mortal temporal form. Doesn't make it not self-talk.Evil beings tried to tempt him because they're arrogant. It might make sense to just skip the effort and not try to tempt literal god, but they didn't see it that way. They thought, "god got nuffin on me." Hence they being evil.
>>524346719I can understand this, but do you justify persecution of Arianism despite it being popular among parts of the empire that hated Jews?
>>524346786Hold up, what are you asking now? That was a massive topic-shift.
>>524339188Not sure what kind of reply you're looking for here
