You cannot claim this with a straight face, give me a fucking breakEmbrace Messianic Judaism, Jesus is Moshiach but he is not God
>>524856987I'm not a Christian but i believe in the trinity.
You have to be a real witlet to not understand the trinity.
>>524857051Nigga what?
>>524856987>My Father is greater than I [Jesus]>To us there is but one God, the Father.”>do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.>I am with you only a little while longer, and then I am going to the One who sent Me.>In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?>Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped>You have heard how I said to you, I go away, and come again to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go to the Father: for my Father is greater than I.>I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.>Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.>I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.>But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins>For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.>and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.>I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.>I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me>Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
>>524857112But what about Mary anon? If you believe in trinity then you must surely believe in quaternity?
>>524856987It's really fucking easy to understand this in the 21st century which explains why all these Jewish roots people are usually uneducated boomers.>1 account>3 heroes>God multi accounting and larping on all 3 at the same time>fully immersed in game>no God behind the in-game GodIf this analogy is wrong, name the error.
>>524857115What did you not understand? Do you have trouble reading English? >>524857237Mary isn't divine.
>>524856987Jews. Jews lie. Don't trust em. That's all.Simplicity is gold.
>>524856987trinity is circumcision of the mindit's not meant to lead you to new insights independently and outside of the authority of the church
>>524856987you are body, soul and spirit too. its not too hard to understand.God is the Father, Jesus (the Word) and the Holy Spirit.
>>524856987The Trinity is a Helenistic philosophical idea and pagan belief. Not a Biblical teaching. We know this because of the definitions used to describe it: Essence, substance, nature, homoousios, and persons is all Greek metaphysical terms originating in Helenistic Philosophy going back to Plato and Aristotle. The word hypostatic union comes from hypostasis. It is a philosophical idea from Helenistic Greek Philosophy. The Trinity can only be supported with pagan doctrine. These terms and beliefs are not found in the Bible but in Plato, Aristotle, and Pythagoras. The Trinity can be traced back through old triad gods, Greek Philosophy, and Hindu avatarism.The definitions of the Trinity itself: Essence, substance, nature, homoousios, persons, hypostatic union are from Plato, Aristotle, and Pythagoras all taught these centuries before Jesus was born. Just trace "hypostatic union" on Wikipedia. It goes straight back to Plato, Aristotle and Neoplatonism.Think about this: If I started using word like "Means of Labor," "bourgeoisie," "proletariat," "Base and superstructure" and called myself a Libertarian you'd all cry foul and accuse me of being a Marxist and Communist. Why? Because all my terminology used to describe "Libertarian" ideology is all Marxist in nature. You would all call me a fraud.Why not with the Trinty? That's where the entire definition of the Trinity comes from. None of the terminologies, definitions, and understanding of the Trinity comes from the Bible. It all comes from Greek Philosophy, Stoicism, Hindus, and Pagans.
>>52485888718 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
>>524857557How about the part you say "I am not a Christian but I believe in the trinity"So like this>>524858887 ? Is exactly my point, Trinity is a pagan barbarian concept of SAVAGESthe greeks had all that bullshit and what? What did they do? NothingJews created "The West"
>>524857557>Carry God in your womb>not divineLike I said, pure cognitive dissonance
>>524857467>modalism how's the ninth circle? Pagan.
>>524856987God can be anything because God is omnipotent. Everyone else has limitation, so they cannot become what they are not.A fish cannot become a monkeyA monkey cannot become a lionA God can become all of them.Get it?
>>524856987It's a bastardization of the natural order. The holy spirit is the feminine current represented by the moon in its reflection. Father being the sun. And the earth being the union cus it's the one with life. Just labels to describe the structure of the psyche that mirrors the cosmos.
>>524859310It's not modalism retard.Modalism would be only playing 1 hero at a time.Try again.
>>524858887The trinity is all over the old and new testament; you follow a FALSE DOCTRINE, stop lying to others and yourself; have eyes to see, in Jesus' mighty name1 Samuel 3:8>A third time the Lord called, “Samuel!” And Samuel got up and went to Eli and said, “Here I am; you called me.”>Then Eli realized that the Lord was calling the boy.
>>524859532God created the sun and the moon. stop worshiping the creation instead of its creator.
>>524859184I have no idea what the guy you're quoting is talking about. I believe in objective morality, incorporated by God. I believe in a God who created the universe and everything in it. I believe that a human on earth did fully submit to God and that all his words and actions follow the objective moral good, which makes him fully divine while still being fully human. I believe God is here on earth everywhere at every time.So there you have it. How's that not that trinity?>>524859251Maybe a little bit divine but not fully divine, so not part of the trinity.
>>524856987>Eddie Murphy as:>Professor Sherman Klump>Buddy Love>Ida Mae Jensen>Anna Pearl Klump>Cletus Klump>Young Cletus Klump>Ernie Klump Sr.>Lance PerkinsDoes this help you understand, simpleton?
Proof that the Bible is the word of God:https://truthischrist.com/seven/fcbaptist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Bible-proof.pdf1 Corin 15:3-4: “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntc1 John 5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."Romans 3:23: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”Jesus Christ is God who has come in the flesh from heaven. He died as a sinless sacrifice for the sins of the whole world to save you from eternal hell, the punishment for your sin. He was buried, then resurrected and then ascended to heaven. John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 10:28: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Rom 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."God wants to forgive you, but you have a choice: Do you choose the righteousness of God by receiving Christ? Your own righteousness can NEVER justify you or keep you saved because of your sin. Rom 5:9: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, in His finished blood atonement. The gift of salvation can't be earned. Confess The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in prayer, that you trust in Him and believe He atoned for your sins on the cross.Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Religions are man-made religious ideas, not historical realities. They have man as authority instead of the infallible word of God. The Bible is from God, so it makes no sense to ignore it and go to the teachings of corruptible men instead. You need salvation.Isaiah 41:21-24: "Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob. Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come. Shew the things that are to come here- after, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together. Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.""If you and your Moslem (and Catholic and Hindu and Buddhist) friends cannot meet THOSE requirements which God gave you in His Book (see Mal. 3:16), then for heaven's sake, don't go around bragging about some fornicating polygamist or some wine-headed politician or cross-legged yogi who as (and is) no more a genuine "prophet" than Goldilocks and the Three Bears (Ezek. 4:9-10)."https://truthischrist.com/elton-anomaly-823543/https://truthischrist.com/70x7-kjb-code-jesus-is-the-son-of-god/www.youtube.com/shorts/qzHWrQ2DHhQ (How to Prove the Power of Christ in 60 Seconds)https://truthischrist.com/seven/www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCsPy4CY6hIwww.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ919YomJjMwww.youtube.com/watch?v=pcvFX5uIRb4www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS78mFJcvhQ
>>524856987It's not even a complicated concept. Furthermore, Christ himself admitted that he is God>Before Abraham was, I amThat is as clear as can be. You can only dispute it by either thinking he was a liar or you think the gospel of John can't be trusted.
>>524859251how can Mary be divine when she had to go through the purification ritual after the birth?
>>524859023>All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.>HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME>HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME Why would God need to be given anything? ESPECIALLY authority! Didn't God always have authority?>>524859707Long story short: When you ask an "educated" Trinitarian to describe and define the Trinity they use educated words like Essence, substance, nature, homoousios, persons, hypostatic union. All those ideas are not from the Bible. They are from Plato, Aristotle, and Pythagoras all taught these centuries before Jesus was born. Just trace "hypostatic union" on Wikipedia. It goes straight back to Plato, Aristotle and Neoplatonism. That's how we know the Trinity doctrine is not Biblical. None of the doctrines used to describe the Trinity are found in the Bible. They are found in Greek philosophy. All "proof text" are misunderstood verses, out-of-context verses, mistranslated verses, and spurious verses
>>524861029because Adam gave the authority over his earth and his heaven to Satan.God became man so that this authority could be given back to the Son of man, the 2nd Adam, Jesus Christ who will rule as king on earth in the second coming.
>>524860722>1 John 5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.">For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7, KJV)This verse is known as the Johannine Comma. This text is not found in any of the early Greek or the best Latin manuscripts of the Bible. It is spurious. It was added, no doubt, to try to support the Trinity. Most modern translations, both Catholic and Protestant, do not include these words in the main body of the text.(RS, NE, TEV, JB, NAB also leave out the Trinitarian passage.)This is a SPURIOUS TEXT, or non-existent text not found in any of the oldest manuscripts. Anyone that presents this text to you is a liar and a fiend.The correct translation of this verse is:>1John5:7 - 7For there are three witness bearers, 8the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement.See? This is the problem with you Trinitarianism. You don't understand Bible translation, Bible history, Biblical linguistics. If you did, you wouldn't believe in the Trinity at all.
It's not a hard concept to get.
>>524856987Billy's eye is not Billy's hand is not Billy's face, but you can point at all three and say this is Billy. What's so hard to understand about that?
>>524861129But that doesn't make sense. You're avoiding my premise. If Jesus is God why would Jesus be given anything if everything already belonged to him? Who could give God anything? Especially Authority. Didn't God always have authority?Jesus said:>All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.>IN HEAVEN >IN HEAVEN Why would God need someone to give him authority in heaven if he always had it?
>>524861219Not a good comparison; God is so gargantuan by nature that His core is unknowable to us, only the three ways in which he had appeared to us - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
>>5248611391 John 5v7 (Phil 2v5-11), John 10v30-33The word Godhead occurs 3x in the Scriptures – Acts 17v29, Rom 1v20, Col 2v9. It is also very interesting that the words Almighty God appear 3x in Scripture – Gen 17v1, Ezek 10v5, Rev 19v15Who raised Jesus from the dead? – The Father did (Gal 1v1), Jesus raised Himself (John 2v19-21) and the Holy Spirit raised Him (Rom 8v11)1 Tim 3v16 – Jesus Christ IS God in the flesh.Jesus Christ IS Jehovah God – note the word LORD in capitals… Zech 12v7-10, note too the words‘I’ and ‘ME’, incredible! Cf. Rev 1v5-7Isa 44v6 – Note the LORD for Father and Son. Cf. Rev 1v17+18Compare these verses regarding the Father and Son as God… Isa 8v13-15, Isa 28v16 – 1 Pet 2v8,Rom 9v33Deut 32v3+4 – 1 Cor 10v4. The LORD is the Father, and the LORD is Jesus Christ, both are God. Godthe Rock is also Jesus Christ.John 20v24-28 – Jesus accepted what Thomas said… “My Lord and my God”Jesus Christ had no beginning – Micah 5v2God the Father is the first and the last – Isa 44v6, Isa 48v12 but so is God the Son – Rev 1v5-7+8+11+17, Rev 2v8, Rev 22v13Who is the I AM? – Exo 3v14, John 8v58 (see also John 8v24+28, John 9v9, John 13v19, John18v5+6+8, Isa 48v12, 44v24, Rev 1v8+11+17) – Jesus is the I AM.1 John 2v22 Who is a liar (JW’s, Mormons, Christadelphians etc.) but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. v23 Whosoever denieth the Son, (all the cults and false religions) the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. The truth is in Jesus – Eph 4v21Who is the Creator? The Father (Gen 1v1, Isa 44v24) yet we read that Jesus is also the Creator –John 1v1-3, Col 1v16-20, Heb 3v4.God the Father even calls His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, God – Heb 1v8-10https://download.timefortruth.co.uk/docs/Christian_Soldiers_Battle_Notes.pdfMatthew 4:7: “Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.”
>>524859848It's a pattern dumbass. Way to out yourself as an unthinking retard. Patterns scale. What that means figure it out yourself numbnuts no one ever helped me.
>>524856987this is jew filioque slop. you are a heretic op.
>>524856987What does "is not" mean? Is that the same thing as "iddn't"?
>>524861382>1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.first sentence in the bible. there are multiple heavens, not just one.2 Cor 12I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.so we know at least about three heavens. the heaven on earth, the 2nd heaven where satan most likely had set up his rival kingdom, and the 3rd heaven, the heaven of God.
Religion is gay, but christcucks and buddistfags are onto something. Also Jesus was against organized religion
>>524860852I AMActually, God didn't say "I AM" in Ex 3:14. In Greek, he said "Ego ei'mi ho'on" and Jesus said "Ego ei'mi" in John 8:58. Literally, "Ego ei'mi ho'on" means "I am the being" whereas Jesus phrase translates literally to "I am." Those are literal translations though without the meaning in tact. In English, God said "I become whatever I have to become" or "I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be."In John 8:58 Jesus wasn't talking about his identity but of his age. Ego'ei'mi is used to describe an event that happened in the past that continues down to this day. Trinitarians said that Jesus words were in the present tense, on the contrary, they are in the TEMPORAL tense. Ego'ei'mi is used by others in the Bible and do not point to God but to an event that happened in the past and continues down to their present.CONTINUED
>>524861520you just look at pagan stuff and want to marry it with christian teachings. doesnt work like that.yes there are patterns, but dont get confused with satanic teachings.the triune nature of man, women, child doesnt translate to the divine of the triune God.
>>524856987I just don't care, if god wants us to have better clarity on it he'd make it so and we wouldn't even be having this conversation, since we're having this conversation he clearly gets off on us murdering each other over this simple fucking retarded bullshit, so he should expect people to just give up as well(but they get to spend eternity suffering just for the keks) riight...I'll make my own god and not share, just to make Jews and christfags seethe. No words, no statues, just thoughts so you can all eat a bag of dicks.
>>524857467There's not a named Trinitarian heresy that aligns with what you've said but it's disanalogous anyway. The doctrine of the Trinity posits that three persons are one being. Your analogy sounds more like there's a supreme person ordering three lesser persons.It also doesn't comply with dyothelitism: that Jesus has two wills owing to his two natures. In your analogy, only one will seems to exist (the player).
>>524860852>>524861752“I HAVE BEEN”[4] - alternate reading in 1960 thru 1973 reference editions of NASB(2) “I HAVE BEEN” - The New Testament, G. R. Noyes(3) “I HAVE BEEN” - “The Four Gospels” According to the Sinaitic Palimpsest, A. S. Lewis(4) “I HAVE ALREADY BEEN” - The Unvarnished New Testament(5) “I HAVE EXISTED” - The Bible, A New Translation, Dr. James Moffatt(6) “I EXISTED” - The New Testament in the Language of Today, 1964 ed., Beck(7) “I EXISTED” - An American Translation, Goodspeed(8) “I EXISTED” - The New Testament in the Language of the People, Williams(9) “I EXISTED” - New Simplified Bible(10) “I WAS IN EXISTENCE” - Living Bible(11) “I WAS ALIVE” - The Simple English Bible(12)“I WAS” - Holy Bible - From the Ancient Eastern Text, Lamsa(13)“I WAS” - Young’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1st ed. (Also see Young’s ConciseCritical Commentary, p. 61 of “The New Covenant.”).(14) “I WAS” - The Syriac New Testament, Jas. Murdock(15) “I WAS” - H. T. Anderson(16) “I WAS” - Twentieth Century New TestamentThe Trinity doctrine is not Biblical. It is only supported through fallacies, spurious verses and incorrect translated verses. This is a good example up above. All the other Trinity "proof text" are also translated under the same bias as well.Continued
>>524856987I don't get it either,What I also don't get is why the name "Jesus" is distorted from it's original form,it's either Aramaic or Hebrew according to the "experts"...It's true that the Christian bible can be/enigmatic/poetic and up for interpretation,however "Jesus" was never "God", nor did he ever claim to be (according to the scriptures).You'd think Christians would come to their senses and leave it be, but here we are...
>>524861752Uh-huh.. And then they wanted to stone Jesus for no reason at all after He said that. They understood what He said. You saying "The Bible doesnt say what it says" doesn't prove your point at all. You're not in some sort of secret club who understands what the Bible really says. God gave the Bible to all humans. And it doesn't say the opposite if what it says. God means what He says. If you think that God is so weak that He can't even give us His Book to read, and everyone actually wrong and only this secret club has the real secret true information, you're not worshipping God.The five works of God are ascribed to Jesus – creation, preservation, forgiveness, raising the dead, and judgment – John 1:3; Hebrews 1:3; Mark 7:48; John 6:39; John 5:22.Isaiah 9:6, 7, “For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given… and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Only the Lord God Himself could be the fulfillment of these names. Wonderful – Only God is truly wonderful. See Luke 18:19, none good save the Lord God. Counsellor – Only the omniscient God could be the perfect Counsellor, Psalms 16:7. The Mighty God – The One prophesied to be the Messiah was to be God Himself. The Everlasting Father – John 10:30, Jesus said, “I and My Father are one.” In this text Jesus as man was born but Jesus as God was “given.” (God always existed.)
>>524860852>>524861752>>524862107Ego'ei'mi is used by others in the Bible and do not point to God but to an event that happened in the past and continues down to their present.>(Luke 2:48) Now when they saw him they were astounded, and his mother said to him: “Child, why did you treat us this way? Here your father and I in mental distress have been(Ego'ei'mi) looking for you.”>(John 5:6) Seeing this man lying down, and being aware that he had already been (Ego'ei'mi) [sick] a long time, Jesus said to him: “Do you want to become sound in health?”>(1 John 3:8) He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been(Ego'ei'mi) sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil.>(Matthew 8:9) For I too am(Ego'ei'mi) a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me, and I say to this one, ‘Be on your way!’ and he is on his way, and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”>(2 Corinthians 12:19) Have YOU been(Ego'ei'mi) thinking all this while that we have been(Ego'ei'mi) making our defense to YOU? It is before God that we are speaking in connection with Christ. But, beloved ones, all things are for YOUR upbuilding.Wherever you see "have been" or "has been" " I been" is literally "I AM." So Jesus in John 8:58 meant to say "I HAVE BEEN existing before Abraham."
>>524860852>>524861752>>524862107>>524862280The Sahidic Coptic written 1,700 years ago by the ancient Egyptian Christians of the time during when Sahidic Coptic and Koine Greek were both alive and used at the time. They translated Ex 3:14EX 3:14 anok pe petSoop which is "I AM THE-EXISTING-ONE[BEING] and according to the Sahidic Coptic 1,700 years ago Jesus said in John 8:58:empate abraHam Swpe anok TSoop. "before Abraham became I existed."If you notice, EX3:14 says in Coptic petSoop or THE BEING whereas in John 8:58 in Coptic is Soop for existed. So the Egyptians, 1,700 years ago didn't see Jesus identifying himself as the petSoop(THE BEING) in Ex3:14 rather they had him say Soop for "existed" which from their understanding Jesus meant to say that he just merely existed before Abraham.SAHIDIC COPTIC OF JOHN 8:58>ΜΠΑΤЄ ΑΒΡΑϨΑΜ ϢШΠЄ ΑΝΟΚ ϯϢΟΟΠ.Transliteration>ΜΠΑΤЄ=BEFORE>ΑΒΡΑϨΑΜ=ABRAHAM>ϢШΠЄ=CAME INTO EXISTENCE>ΑΝΟΚ=I>ϯϢΟΟΠ=IN EXISTENCEBEFORE ABRAHAM CAME INTO EXISTENCE I IN EXISTENCE.TranslationBefore Abraham comes into existence, I in existence.It's the same thing as all the other ancient manuscripts and early Bibles. The key is ΑΝΟΚ ϯϢΟΟΠ or I (AM) IN EXISTENCEϢΟΟΠ = "(Is) in existence." -- Ariel Shisah HaLevy, Coptic Grammatical Chrestomathy, p. 248So 1,700 years ago the Egyptian Christians understood John 8:58 the same way JW do today.
>>524856987>MY RETARDED DESERT RELIGION IS LESS RETARDED THAN YOUR RETARDED DESERT RELIGION
>>5248621748 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
>>524859251Is the manger that carried god divine?
>>524861488>1 John 5v7So you just posted this and are going to ignore >>524861139>John 10:30-I and the Father are one.”In what way?....>(John 17:11) “Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are.>(John 17:21) in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.>(1 Corinthians 3:6-8) I planted, A•pollos watered, but God kept making [it] grow; so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow. 8 Now he that plants and he that waters are one,…>(Galatians 3:28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus.>(Romans 12:5) so we, although many, are one body in union with Christ, but members belonging individually to one another.Regarding John 10:30, John Calvin (who was a Trinitarian) said in the book Commentary on the Gospel According to John: “The ancients made a wrong use of this passage to prove that Christ is . . . of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement which he has with the Father.”Jesus, God, the Apostles, Paul, Apollos, and the Christian Church are one IN AGREEMENT AND GOAL, Not in nature, substance, etc.
>>524861488>Col 2v9>>Colossians 2:9>>For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (KJV)This doesn't mean what you think it means. This is the correct translation.This is the original Greek:οτι εν αυτω kατοιkει παν το πληρωμα της θεοτητος [theotetos, from theotes] σωματιkωςThis word....θεοτητος....is pronounced "theotes" in English. It is where the word "Godhead" is in your translations.Here are other translations and pay attention to how they translate "theotes":NWTbecause it is in him that all the fullness of the DIVINE QUALITY dwells bodilyKJVFor in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.NIVFor in Christ all the fulness of the DEITY lives in bodily formVulgatequia in ipso inhabitat omnis plenitudo DIVINTATIS[1] [divinity] corporaliterWeymouthFor it is in Christ that the fulness of GOD'S NATURE dwells embodied, and in Him you are made completeNETFor in him all the fullness of DEITY lives in bodily formCONTINUED
>>524861488>>524862657In Greek, the suffix -της, -tes is frequently used to make an abstract noun out of an adjective or out of a concrete noun. Thus kainos (new) produces kainotes (newness), adelphos (brother) produces adelphotes (brotherhood) This, -tes can be seen to be similar in certain respects to English suffixes such as -ship, -ness, or -hood.So when you take the word Theos(God), a noun, and add -tes to the end of it is is no longer a concrete noun, but an abstract noun. It goes from being a DEFINITE to a QUALITATIVE. It is the same as marksman is a definite noun, but turn it into marksmanship and it becomes qualitative.So the actual word THEOTES is a QUALTITATIVE WORD. It is describe WHAT Jesus has in him and not WHO. Just like marksmanship is the "nature or state of being a marksman" Theotes is the "nature or state of being godlike."That is why all those other Bibles translate it as "divinity, deity, divine nature, God's nature," Because it is describing a QUALITY Jesus now has inside him and not that he has God inside him. The most literal translation of "theotes" is "Godlikeness, Godhood, Godship, Godliness."As we have seen above, the correct rendering should be describing all God's qualities now in Jesus. Not God himself in Jesus
>>524862174>What I also don't get is why the name "Jesus" is distorted from it's original form,>it's either Aramaic or Hebrew according to the "experts"...It's because the correct translation is Joshua. The problem is there are multiple Joshua's in the Bible, including Jesus.
>>524856987It actually takes a high IQ to truly understand Christianity. The Trinity filters out the shitskins who are too retarded to understand such a basic concept.A Father is not the same as a Son is not the same as a Husband. But one man can be a Father, and a Son, and a Husband.
>>524862716>>524862657It is FIVE Greek texts (Erasmus, Colinaeus, Stephanus, Beza and Elzevir), with each DIFFERENT text going into SEVERAL editions. Not one of these texts match exactly. There is NOoriginal Greek text you can check anything by, as there are NO originals on planet earth, all there are, are copies of copies of copies.You can't just personally decide: "This is what the Bible actually says." Otherwise it's your word, not the word of God.https://truthischrist.com/elton-anomaly-823543/https://truthischrist.com/70x7-kjb-code-jesus-is-the-son-of-god/www.youtube.com/shorts/qzHWrQ2DHhQ (How to Prove the Power of Christ in 60 Seconds)https://truthischrist.com/seven/www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCsPy4CY6hIwww.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ919YomJjMwww.youtube.com/watch?v=pcvFX5uIRb4www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS78mFJcvhQ
>>524859251Jesus is 100% man and 100% God though
I'm going to add something before I leave, not a fan of bible debates...Always remember that humans "assembled" the Christian bible as we know it today.Think about all the texts/book that were rejected.What about those scriptures?Think about everything that was omitted...Also,Rev 2218 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.Why do I post this verse?Because it means the words in the scriptures can be distorted/removed, think about it...Think about other religions referring to "Jesus" and other scriptures (not recognize by the Catholic church)that paint a different picture of "Jesus".
>>524858887>The Trinity is a Hellenistic philosophical idea>Not a Biblical teaching.Jesus was a Hellenistic Platonist. The climax of the story is Jesus literally being the man who walked out of the cave.
>>524857895Nope, that's the Partialism heresy
>>524856987>embrace judaism You mean the one where they suck baby dick as part of the religion? Not surprised you’d endorse that based on your flag
>>524856987nah, how about i just throw all abrahamic trash into the garbage bin where it goes
>>524856987>>524856987God is a programmer who created a simulation - this is The Father. The Father programs a system-level AI to manage mechanics and processes inside this simulation - this is the Holy Spirit. Later, The Father uploads Himself to this simulation, spawning as a fetus and being raised as any other Human would be within the Simulation - this is The Son.Pretty fucking simple, m8. Maybe you're just retarded?
God is male, and is the only one... an incel, if you will.
>>524858887It was explained with Helenistic terms but it does not mean that the idea is originally Helenistic. Just as transubstantiation is a later explanation but it does not mean that the Orthodox do not confess the real presence.
>>524863752So, you are God? You are the universe experiencing itself no? That sounds like God to me
>>524863840No, I am created by God, living inside the simulation He created. He exists beyond this simulation as The Father, I may not, therefore I am not God.
>>524856987god was with him, though. that's what makes him a christ. seethe harder.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPHyR92MQic
>>524856987>Embrace Messianic Judaism, Jesus is Moshiach but he is not GodThat’s seems to be a category error. IF you conclude (wrongly) that Jesus the Christ is not God how does that make Messianic Judaism correct? Why wouldn’t you conclude biblical Unitarianism is correct such as the Christedelphians or Transylvanian Unitary Church?
>>524856987Jesus Christ is God in the flesh; the hypostatic union. He humbled Himself and made Himself a Servant to save humanity. God is One. The trinity is impossible to fully understand because we are finite and the finite cannot grasp the infinite. Christianity is a monotheistic religion.
>>524862953>But one man can be a Father, and a Son, and a Husband.Can be, but not necessarily. Therefore it's not complete in itself, if we're going by your comparison. 'Believing' in trinity means nothing.
>>524856987your face is not your ass , your ass is not your dick.People might identify you from your face, your gf could hopefully identify by your dick and your uncle is probably remembering that ass.those are not equivalent parts of your body but they are all you.Hope this was clear enough, thanks for coming to my talk.
>>524863200>Always remember that humans "assembled" the Christian bible as we know it today.All of the books of the New Testament were all written down sometime between shortly after Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection to ~100 AD. These books were all written by or based on the oral testimonies being given by Jesus's closest disciples and people who knew Jesus and his teachings from direct first hand experience, or Paul who didn't meet Jesus during Jesus's lifetime but spent a lot of time with the disciples learning about Jesus's teachings, or were written as historical accounts by outsiders who based them on the best available contemporaneous sources.By the end of the 1st century, the last of the original first hand direct eyewitnesses to Jesus and his teachings were mostly dead or elderly. These documents then became the primary sources for what Jesus actually did and said. The various early Christian churches had already started deciding which documents were legit and authoritative while there were still people around who actually knew Christ.>Think about all the texts/book that were rejected.>What about those scriptures?They were rejected by the earliest Christian leaders because they weren't legitimate or reliable enough to be included with the official canon. >Think about everything that was omitted...It was omitted for a reason.
>>524864111>The trinity is impossible to fully understand because we are finite and the finite cannot grasp the infinitethen why did we say there's 3 if we dont know anything?
>>524862953Modalism heresy
>>524856987>sees a triangle>”THREE SIDES?!1!?! HOW CAN THERE BE THREE!?¡¡?1 THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!!!!!!!!! IM GOOING INSAAAAAANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”Subhuman brain dread vermin. You are incapable of actually perceiving reality and are incapable of not being a slave to people that are equally retarded and evil. Kill yourself.
>>524857115The trinity is a time tested metaphysical fact, proven long before Christianity was a thing. The first principle of existence is Truth, which necessarily includes Reason, which necessarily includes Life. They're one divinity made up of three principles. It has to be this way. The ancient Egyptians knew it. Plato knew it. Whoever wrote the Vedas knew it. Christians adopted it, because it was self evidently true.
every argument or analogy that tries to explain the trinity always ends up being some sort of heresy>muh modalism!>muh partialism!>muh polytheism!just accept that it's beyond our comprehension and try not to think about it logically
>>524861472>only the three ways in which he had appeared to us - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.I think that’s wrong, and arguably heresy.You are correct that >God is so gargantuan by nature that His core is unknowable to usHowever I disagree on your usage of “unknowable”.God is infinite so he can be known but never fully known because you could spend eternity learning to know God more and you still wouldn’t fully know him. You would objectively know him more than you did on day 1, but it’s an eternal growth in relationship with God. However we don’t know God as 3 persons due to our limited nature. We know God as 3 persons because God IS triune. Minor grip, but that’s my honest critique.
>>524863935So Jesus had the "full memory" and awareness of The Father, how is a mortal sacrifice worth anything when you know you are God?And if you say Jesus didnt had the memory of being The Father, how can you assure you are not also God without memory?
After trying to figure it out for a few tears, I think may finally understand the Trinity. Jesus wasn't joking when he was saying he was the way, the truth, and the life.
>>524864399It is beyond our comprehension, but it's not beyond our apprehension. We can understand small parts of it, at least. One helpful way to look at it is that all three exist prior to time. Therefore, there's no "before" and "after", but there is sequence. Truth exists first, Logos exists as a natural consequence and emanation of Truth, and Soul exists as a consequence of Logos. They exist simultaneously prior to time itself, making them a single divine principle.
>>524864160>Can be, but not necessarily.Completely irrelevant. God IS the Trinity, so it doesn't matter if theoretically God could exist as two persons or 9000 persons instead.
"Yeah crucify me idgas I am God"That sacrifice doesnt seem very meaningful
>>524864263>Modalism heresyNo, the analogy just isn't perfect because God is not the same as a normal mortal man.
>>524856987>be seething OP jew and cry about The Trinity>give no argument against itInto the trash this thread goes
>>524856987This influence it the early Neoplatonist Church father's actually makes Christianity more interesting and less Jewish.
>>524864564>God IS the Trinity>so it doesn't matter if theoretically God could exist as two persons or 9000 persons insteadtrinity means exactly 3
>>524857112But it don't make sense. Why are they different when they are the same? How can there be more than one God? Father is the son and holy spirit and God all at the same time or he's not? How can he be both the same and different people?
>>524864674You're saying that God is one being who puts on different masks/roles depending on the situation, like one man being a husband to a wife, a father to a child, or a son to their parents all at once.That's exactly what modalism is.>the analogy isn't perfect because god isn't a mortal manThen why type it up at all, it's a useless statement
>>524856987>Embrace...JudaismNo. I denounce the Talmud.
>>524864911This is exactly what the image shows: the Father is God, but he is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God, but not the Father or the Holy Spirit etc."God" is a substance, while Father, Son and Holy Spirit are persons. That's what one God, three persons mean.
>>524859251is the Uber that carried the pizza to your house a pizza?
>>524856987What do you think happened before Creation?Who do you think the "God" of the old testament was?Christianity doesn't have me entirely convinced, but the Trinity makes far more sense than Hebrew nonsense, there's plenty of signs Jews were just tricked into worshipping demons
>>524864911>Why are they different when they are the same?Because each one depends on the one that comes prior, ontologically. Truth as a principle has to exist in order for Logos to exist as a principle. And Logos has to exist as a principle before Soul can exist as a principle.>How can there be more than one God?There's only one, but the one is made up of three. Or perhaps a better way of looking at it is that Truth exists necessarily and fundamentally, but its existence automatically gives rise to Logos through natural necessity. It's sort of like if the only thing that existed was 2, but 2 existing would automatically and naturally entail the existence of 1+1. You simply cannot have one without the other.>Father is the son and holy spirit and God all at the same time or he's not?Father isn't the Son, nor is it the Holy Spirit. All three make up one divinity, but they are not identical. Father is explicitly the cause of the Son, and the Son is the cause of the Spirit.>How can he be both the same and different people?They're different, but co-eternal. One way of looking at it that might help, is to imagine that if the Father is perfect Love, then Logos is the perfect love of of the perfect Love. They're united in every way other than that one degree of separation.
>>524865234But God is the Father and the Son. The holy spirit made Mary pregnant which gave birth to Jesus the son who is also God. But the son is the father and the holy spirit. They are all God and the same. You are saying they are different.
>>524863487>Partialism is a heresy that claims the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each only part of God, not fully God individuallythats not what I was saying retard. I wanted to give him an allegory he could understand.your flesh, soul and spirit are each fully human too.
>>524864911All three are fully divine. If you were to put the son in the fathers shoes he'd do exactly like the father does, there'd be no difference. Same if you were to put the father in the holy spirit's shoes or any other permitation. That's how they're the same, they each fully and completely follow the will of God. However, the son didn't create the universe and the holy spirit wasn't crucified, etc.
>>524865006Modalism does not exist in all states simultaneously, God definitionally does as the Ultima of metaphysical existenceThe idea of God you have in your head is so very, very limited if you think He can't be 3 things (or many more) simultaneously and eternally
>>524865495They are different persons, but they are all God. The difference is in person, not in substance.
>>524856987>>524857051>>524857112>believe in a God who is without body, parts, or passions; who sits on the top of a topless throne; whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere; who fills the universe, and yet is so small that he can dwell in your heart; who is surrounded by myriads of beings who have been saved by grace, not for any act of theirs, but by his good pleasure. No thanks I'll take God, the Eternal Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost over some philosophical Greco-Roman cloud of literally nothing.
>>524865827The trinity is a philosophical concept that predates Greece and Rome. Its truth is immutable, which means it has been true forever, and many civilizations were able to recognize that truth just as well as they were able to recognize the existence of triangles, squares and circles as geometric principles.
>>524865827What are you saying? You are mocking the core aspects of Christianity yet saying you are a Christian who believes in Jesus Christ. What are you on about as you would say?
>>524865827>no thanks i'll take the trinity over the trinitywut?
>>524865006>one being who puts onnta but your statement requires "it" can be taken off if "it" is "put on", so your analogy is already invalidJesus has been and always will always be The Son. There was never a starting point when he became The Son. That status was not and never has been "put on">all at once.>That's exactly what modalism isNo, modalism means switching between the three, ergo not all at onceYou cannot have 3 modes in tandem all at once. Your microwave has at least 2 modes: on and off. It cannot be both modes at the same timeYou don't understand modalismIf you accuse a Trinity analogy of being modalism then nothing about the explanation can be temporary, otherwise it is not modalism. Your accusation relies on 2 temporary things. Granted the other anon did make an analogy about a husband (which is temporary) so his analogy is not perfect as you identified, but he admitted it's not perfect. His analogy would work if a being was eternally in the past and eternally in the future a husband, father, and son all at the same time.
>>524865827Where did I say any of this? Not that I disagree tho.
>>524858887So what you are saying is that this part of christianity might be worth preserving because its not jewish nonsense?
>>524863752Except all three of those things existed simultaneously and eternally before the "program" was created
>>524856987My brain is not my heart is not my hand. All are me, however. Discern more; judge less.
I always imagined God looks like a human body with a universe for a head, and he's like a greyish blue almost
>>524864258Impossible to fully understand does not equal inability to know anything. Try actually thinking critically.
>>524856987the trinity doesn't make sense and it makes perfect sense. that's the point. it's mysticism in a nutshell, adapted for a non-mystical age, so simplified that anybody even a peasant or a jew can ponder it and wonder. God is one but also all. think about it. PS: all monotheistic religions just compartmentalize and rationalize the same mysticism and divine aspects of God in different way that makes more sense to them but ultimately is the same.
>>524865827You are surely wiser than the Church Fathers and Paul if you reject the "Greco-Roman thing."
>>524866145Only through symbolism and tradition. Intellectually it creates nothing but retards, like itt.
>>524864399You can absolutely approach it logicallyYou just need to think about what attributes properly describe GodAs a mental exercise consider: Truth is not Love is not Courage, but all three are Eternal
>>524866233God is beyond form, body or shape because he's the cause of form, body and shape. He can't be made of what he made, so he just "is". You have to learn how to cleanse your mind of all concepts, images and shapes if you want to "see" God.
>>524861029Stop being angry. Ponder these things peacefully, or do not ponder them at all.
>>524866330Ok then how did we critically think and decide, if not everything, then just the outlines of reality? Is there any point in acknowledging it?
>>524865559Your body is not you in your entirety, it is a part of what makes up you.Your soul is not you in your entirety, it is a part of what makes up you.Your spirit is not you in your entirety, it is a part of what makes up you.The argument wasn't that the separate parts aren't human, but that individually they aren't YOU in total.Likewise comparing the parts of the Trinity to the aspects making up a human being limits them to just being incomplete bits of God, not a whole God.That is what partialism is, sorry.No need to rage and try to sneakily reword your original statement.Just another person claiming that it's easy to understand before rolling out heresies, then backtracking and saying it's an imperfect analogy when it gets called out.
>>524856987>Jesus is Moshiach but he is not GodANTICHRIST.>[1Jo 2:18, 22 KJV] 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. ... 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.>[1Jo 4:3 KJV] 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.>[2Jo 1:7 KJV] 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
>>524866414>Intellectually it creates nothing but retardsWhy is that in your opinion? I tried to look into this whole trinity thing years ago and thought ok this is just talk of some magic that I cant fully wrap my brain around
Jesus is the visible God. It was the Son who spoke to Moses, and did all things visible, as The Word allowed itself to be seen. A lot of people assume Jesus came later and that it was The Father that did and said everything in the OT, but no.
>>524864600>>524864518Non of you have an answerLike Christianity, all you can come up with is a fractured mess of nonsense, no wonder you have 40000 denominationsAnswer this, is Jesus knew he was God, why would crucifixion be that meaningful of a sacrifice? You know you are God so who cares if some monkeys torture you for a while, you are literally God you can just turn off the pain and scream to mess with them etc etcA roman crucifixion is not worth the sins of all humanity>but but he was innocentSo what, plenty of kids get cancer, are they God?
Let me repeatSo Jesus had the "full memory" and awareness of The Father, how is a mortal sacrifice worth anything when you know you are God?And if you say Jesus didnt had the memory of being The Father, how can you assure you are not also God without memory?
>>524866651First of all, it's not just an idea of reality or a mere symbol. It is demanded that you fully believe it or you're excommunicated. On one side you have church authority and on the other you have something which is eternal and impartial, you dont know how to grasp it and how to feel about it or what does it even mean to believe it. You begin to project church's authority on all the concepts. Everything you then think comes through that lens. It's a clever design to keep you loyal and diligent until death. It was never meant to free the slaves. Protestants kinda rebelled against the church but they couldn't rid themselves of retarded materialistic ideas.
>>524867581Christianity has never taught that Christ died for our sins in a transactional sense. He didn't die to erase or pay for our sins. It has always affirmed that he died for our sins to show us through example how not to sin. He lived in the ideal fashion and died in the ideal fashion, all for the sake of showing us how to imitate that fashion and become ideal ourselves. Whether Logos came down into earth as Jesus or Jesus became Logos through perfect participation is a needless question, because ultimately both mean the same thing.
>>524867581Jesus has a fully human nature. He experienced everything as a human, including death and hell. Divine nature is impassible, but He experienced humanity fully - Agony, despair, doubt, even a fear of abandonment. God embraced human frailty. That's the sacrifice: The Incarnation itself is a sacrifice, and Jesus took that sacrifice to an absolute completion. God became man, suffered, and died - He became man for us, and everything that followed was done selflessly for us. The sacrifice wasn't to pay some fee, it was to bridge the gap that sin created between God and man. He didn't "have" to do it this way, either. He did it this way because it was the most fitting because of that gap.
>>524866607reality is finite. God is infinite.>>524867581There are about 10 denominations plus catholicism and orthodoxy. All branches from the same tree. Jesus wasn't just God, he was fully human as well. The hypostatic union. Kids with cancer can't perform miracles and rise from the dead.
>>524856987No, Jesus is God.
>>524868202>>524868194So nice and sophisticated cope, I appreciate it really
>>524868269You asked a question and you got an answer. You're intentionally choosing not to engage with the answer because you're not interested in it, you've just chosen hate. It's a bummer, but I used to be this way, too.
>>524856987>im too dumb to get itThe post. Here’s a hint. Look up what a Greek “persona” is. That’s the word used for a “person” of the trinity
>>524868194>He experienced everythingHe didn't. In human life you can't experience everything and there's no need to.
>>524866609nobody can understand the triune nature of God until you personally interacted with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit individually.I have, and each are their own person but all are equally God.the Father is total authority, once you met him you know what the fear of the Lord is. you know you are just dust and a sinner in his presence who deserves death.God the Son carries the same gravitas and authority like the Father but with unending love for you so you arent a shivering mess in his presence.God the Holy Spirit is total assurance in having access to the Father by the Son through his atonement on the cross for you.my flesh is sin and needs to be glorified by God in his second coming.my soul deserves death and needs atonement for.my spirit is unclean and I need the Holy Spirit.I hope I made myself clear. dont spin a simple example into accusing me to be a heretic. who are you to judge? leave the judging to God.
>>524866041>>524866080God, the Eternal Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost is not "the trinity". Homoousios is unbiblical.
>>524868498I think this might be a linguistic issue. The takeaway from my sentence is meant to be that everything Jesus experienced He experienced as a human, not that he experienced every possible experience.
>>524867838>you dont know how to grasp it and how to feel about it or what does it even mean to believe itExactly what I remember thinking about the topic but for me it did not lead to project the church authority because if I'm demanded to fully believe in something I atleast want to kind of understand what I'm getting into so I can explain what I'm projecting and what for, in the earlier post you mentioned symbolism and tradition too and implied it could have positives, what would those entail when it comes to trinity? I wish I paid more attention to these things desu, I feel like I should know more about what this whole thing is since I was raised as christian
>>524868453See >>524868514It's almost a fitting analogy, but the Persons of the Trinity are distinct.There is a tempting argument that the Trinity can be compared to water: Steam, water, and ice are all water, similar to how The Father, The Son, and the Spirit are all God. The distinction is deeper than this.
>>524867739Jesus hadn't had "full memory" of the father, as he said himself only the father knows the hour.>how can you assure you are not also God without memory?All of us, we all have the holy spirit with us who guides us. If we follow completely and not deviate from his path then we will know God the same way Jesus knows God - as Jesus said to the Pharisees when asked if he's God, we all get to know God the way he does. But if we deviate and do evil or serve material goods then we can be sure we're not divine like Jesus was.
>>524862970>You can't just personally decide: "This is what the Bible actually says." Otherwise it's your word, not the word of God.I didn't decide that, Greek grammar decided that's. That's why those other Bible's also translated it the correct way. >>524866145I'm glad you brought that up. That's exactly why the early church adopted the Trinity. Because it's not Jewish. No one wanted to worship the same God of the people responsible for the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. The Jews genocided all gentiles in Jerusalem before 70AD. That pissed off the Romans and Greeks. Ever since then everyone hated anything Jewish including the Bible, Jesus and God. So the Council of Nicea wanted to upgrade Christianity to something more palpable for the gentiles to accept. The idea of three gods in one with all that platonic formulas was popular at the time. So they adopted it to make Christianity as non-Jewish as possible.
>>524869093>That's why those other Bible's also translated it the correct way.That is where you are wrong. The modern Bibles are full of errors and contradictions. They are not the pure word of God. Heres just some examples, you can find more in https://kjvcompare.com/:2 Samuel 21:19KJB"And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare–oregim, a Beth–lehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam."NASB"And there was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam."Goliath was beheaded by David over 30 chapters ago in 1 Samuel 17:51. While the underlying Hebrew also says “Goliath”, the correct reading “brother of Goliath” is confirmed by the parallel passage in 1 Chronicles 20:5.-Mark 1:2Mark quotes two prophets, starting with Malachi 3:1 in Mark 1:2 before proceeding to quote Isaiah 40:3 in Mark 1:3. Modern Bibles suggest that Mark identified Malachi’s writing as Isaiah’s, which is an obvious error.-Hebrews 3:16KJBFor some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.NASBFor who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?Modern Bibles suggest all Israel provoked the Lord and were not able to enter the promised land. However, Joshua and Caleb did not provoke the Lord (Numbers 14:22-24), nor did others, according to the KJB, such as Eleazar the priest, who also entered the promised land (Numbers 3:32, Joshua 21:1).-Genesis 27:39In the KJB, Isaac blessed Esau. But in modern translations, he curses him, contradicting the Holy Ghost in Hebrews 11:20, which reads: By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.-I will post more
>>524869093>>524869481Here are more contradictions by the modern translations that according to you are "correct":Hebrews 2:14If the devil “has” power over death (modern versions), then he still has it now- in the present moment which would contradict Revelation 1:18. If the devil “had” power over death (KJB), then the devil’s power over death ended when Jesus was crucified.-Luke 2:33Jesus did not have an earthly father as indicated by modern versions in this verse. This verse is narrated by Luke, and ultimately the Holy Ghost. Some like to point out that Mary calls Joseph the “father” of Jesus in Luke 2:48 when she is speaking to him, but Jesus corrects her on who his Father is in verse 49.-Luke 2:22Modern versions suggest the holy child Jesus had a sin nature and required purification by the law of Moses. This is an error. Only the mother needed purifying according to Leviticus 12:1-8. Moreover, that passage in Leviticus describes an atonement required for this purification. Jesus was sinless and never needed an atonement.-Deuteronomy 22:28In these modern versions, v.29 would imply that God’s law forced a woman to marry her rapist- an abominable conclusion entirely foreign to God and holy scripture. The KJB avoids this by distinguishing the crime of rape (explicitly marked by “force her” in vv.25-26, where the rapist is treated as a murderer and stoned to death) from the consensual situation here in v.28.Galatians 4:1According to modern versions, a child is equal to a slave. -Genesis 22:17The reading in modern versions contradicts Galatians 3:16, which says, “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”-God is not androgynous as some modern versions make him out to be here in Genesis 1:27 as well as Genesis 5:1. Not only is God addressed with masculine pronouns all throughout the Bible, Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 11:7
>>524868677That he 'needed experience' is tabula rasa bs. He could already point us to the kingdom of heaven. That much is enough.>>524868682If you don't understand something, you believe there's someone who does, but if something is supposedly beyond all understanding then you can't turn to anyone. That's the thought I always have in the back of my mind.As a tradition, and I mean imagery, recitals, contemplation, etc. it can diminish some parts that you consider to be the self and those more truthful parts can expand.
>>524869829Again, I think this is a linguistic issue. I said the opposite of what you're saying. I said that Jesus did not need to do it this way, but that God found it the most appropriate way to bridge the gap between God and man due to sin. I'm not sure why you're coming after me for agreeing with you.
>>524856987Arianism was the correct theology but they got bullied out of existence
>>524870190Arianism is a heresy in opposition to the words of Christ.
>>524870085>but that God found it the most appropriate way to bridge the gap between God and manDeath and resurrection is NOT this bridge. We don't agree.
>>524870422That's in reference to the Incarnation. Death is part of being human. The fact is that Jesus died and resurrected.
>>524861029> Why would God need to be given anything? ESPECIALLY authority! Didn't God always have authority?You have authority in your life, just as Jesus has authority(a better term would be dominion) over mankind, God over the heavens.Concepts like blessings, annointing, dominion are really simple to grasp.
>>524862107So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
>>524856987some people are just too dumb to conceptualize, they cannot imagine, cannot do abstract reasoning, logic or asses fallacies.You are just might be too dumb OP, just ask yourself:I am stupid?How stupid am I?If you never questioned yourself with the above two, you are one dumb anon and there is no point in trying to think about the trinity.Maybe the analogy works for you but I doubt it.Body = JesusSpirit = Holy SpiritSoul = God, the FatherAll three = Still YouThis is not about being true, its about grasping the concept -- not its validity.If you cannot understand this, nothing can help you, not even God.
>>524871201The problem still stands that if Jesus is God why would he need anything to be given to him if he already owns everything. Since when did God not have dominion over the earth? If Jesus is God he already had dominion of heaven. Why would Jesus/God say anything was ever given to him?>>524871304>Abraham was, I AM.”That's not the correct translation >>524862360>>524862107
Why did the Jew killed Jesus if he did not claim he is God?
>>524868194God became man, suffered, and died -AND DIED AND DIED >(Habakkuk 1:12) Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.[...]>(Daniel 6:26) ...For he is the living God and One enduring to times indefinite,[...]>(Revelation 4:9) And whenever the living creatures offer glory and honor and thanksgiving to the one seated upon the throne, the one that lives forever and ever,
>>524873531>>524873247Based JW, I am not one myself but I like you guys!
>"... the doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; that it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian scriptures; that it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers."– p. 34, The Church of the First Three Centuries, Alvan Lamson, D.D. (see WT 15 Oct. 1978, p. 32.)>“The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.>"Nor is it only in historical religions that we find God viewed as a trinity. One recalls in particular the Neoplatonic view of the Supreme or Ultimate Reality which was suggested by Plato." - Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Hastings, p. 458, vol. XII.>“The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are Greek philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—John L. McKenzie, S.J., Dictionary of the Bible (New York, 1965), p. 899
>>524873957>"All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods. For as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bound by threes, for the end, the middle, and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the trinity." - Aristotle, as quoted in Paganism in our Christianity, Arthur Weigall, p. 198, Putnam, NY. (Weigall is quoting from On the Heavens, Bk I, ch. i., by Aristotle who died 322 B.C.)>"They appear to have regarded Pythagoras as a divine being [founders of religions tend to `develop' into a divinity or deity for that religion after a period of time] a status which he shared with certain numbers also, particularly one, three, and ten." "Neo-Pythagoreanism's importance consists chiefly in its influence on Neoplatonism ... and on Christian [?] Theology by Clement of Alexandria (150-220 A. D.)." The Greek Philosophers, Warner, p. 219, 1958.>"Nor is it only in historical religions that we find God viewed as a trinity. One recalls in particular the Neoplatonic view of the Supreme or Ultimate Reality which was suggested by Plato." - Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Hastings, p. 458, vol. XII
>>524873687Blessed and bread-pilled
>>524873445Because they accused of breaking the Sabbath and for being superior to Abraham. That was all just an excuse to not lose their power to him.
>>524872487It's not simple, it's confusion. It prevents people from approaching God and developing a relationship with him. Not only that, but in the Bible Jehovah uses confusion as a weapon against his people's enemies.>Judges 4:15-15Then Jehovah threw Sisʹe·ra and all his war chariots and all the army into confusion before the sword of Baʹrak. Finally Sisʹe·ra got down from his chariot and fled on foot.>Exodus 14:24During the morning watch, Jehovah looked at the camp of the Egyptians from within the pillar of fire and cloud, and he threw the camp of the Egyptians into confusion.>Joshua 10:10Jehovah threw them into confusion before Israel, and they inflicted a great slaughter on them at Gibʹe·on, pursuing them by way of the ascent of Beth-hoʹron and striking them down as far as A·zeʹkah and Mak·keʹdah.>Exodus 23:27-27“I will send the fear of me ahead of you, and I will throw into confusion all the people you encounter, and I will cause all your enemies to flee from you in defeat.Since the Trinity is confusing there are only two possibilities. Either God is confusing his own people OR the Devil is also weaponising confusion as well to prevent people from approaching God.
FACT: Trinitarianism is not rooted in faith whatsoever. 1700 years ago, the Christian faith was still relatively new and spread out. There were a lot of denominations as people argued theology. Questions about the nature of God were good thought experiments for the priests and theologians of the day to debate, because they were questions that by their very nature were unknowable and unprovable. You can't know the mind or nature of the Almighty. So whether the Father is the Holy Spirit is the Son or They are separate entities is immaterial and unknowable. Most biblical verses suggest separate entites.Now, Constantine at the time is trying to build up Christianity. And he needs all these little factions to come together and codify their beliefs. This isn't faith, it's pragmatism. Christianity doesn't have a future in his eyes unless they all have the same beliefs - even if they're the wrong ones. And so there's a power struggle between the Trinitarians who followed the Sabellius African view that God and Jesus were the same and Arius who held that Christ was the literal son of God and a separate being. The Trinitarians won the political struggle and adopted the Nicene Creed.Now, you can argue the historical and political merits of adopting Trinitarianism as a burgeoning church trying to establish itself in 300AD. But people that still blindly follow what was just a political coup as their faith? They should be ashamed to call themselves Christians.
>>524865344How dare you speak about your Holy Mother like that??No true Italian would talk shit about Mary. Shame on you nigger
>>524874246>Since the Trinity is confusing there are only two possibilities. Either God is confusing his own people OR the Devil is also weaponising confusion as well to prevent people from approaching God.perhaps the trinity is only confusing to the enemies of God but clear to those who follow God?
>>524857162Stop cherry picking verses>“Before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)>For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)>And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (John 17:3) (1 John 5:20) >in the name (singular) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit">In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1:1)>[Thomas to Jesus] My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)>As soon as the Magi laid eyes on the infant Christ, “they bowed down and worshiped Him” (Matthew 2:11)>Jesus amazed the disciples by walking on water, “those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God’” (Matthew 14:33)>Some of the women (Matthew 28:8-9; Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10) were on their way to tell the disciples of the resurrection when Jesus met them on their way. When they realized it was He, they “came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him” (Matthew 28:9).>In none of these instances do we see Jesus telling those worshiping Him to stop, as did mere men and even angels who were being worshiped wrongly by others (Acts 10:25–26; Revelation 19:9–10).
>>524875871More>The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” (John 10:31-33)>Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:58-59) >But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (John 5:17-18)
>>524876272More. Only God has the power to forgive sins.>“I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins. (Isaiah 43:25)>“He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases.” (Psalm 103:3)>As far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us. (Psalm 103:12)>Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of your name; deliver us, and atone for our sins, for your name's sake! (Psalm 79:9)>A Maskil of David. Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit. For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Selah I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. (Psalm 32:1-11)Jesus’ ability to forgive sins is evidence of His divine nature>When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” But some of the scribes were sitting there and thinking in their hearts, “Why does this man speak like this? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” At once Jesus knew in His spirit that they were thinking this way within themselves. “Why are you thinking these things in your hearts?” He asked. “Which is easier: to say to a paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, pick up your mat, and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...” He said to the paralytic, “I tell you, get up, pick up your mat, and go home.”
>>524876855>To him [Jesus] all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Acts 10:43)>For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. (Matthew 26:28)>And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)>In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, (Ephesians 1:7)>Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, (Acts 13:38)>But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)>Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. (Hebrews 9:22)
>>524875871>>“Before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)You're late>>524861752 >>524862107>>524862280 >>524862360>>524875871>>[Thomas to Jesus] My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)What Thomas did was not PROCLAIM that Jesus was God. What Thomas did was make an expression of astonishment just as we do today. It's the same way we say>"Oh my God! Tim what have you done?!">"Oh my Lord! What are you doing?!?>"My God, Charmaine! What happened?!We can all agree that in those expressions above that none of the speakers are claiming that the subject they are speaking to is God himself or Lord himself. It is an idiom. Even other Trinitarians agree with this.For example, Theodore, Bishop of Mopsuestia (350-428 A.D.) was “an early Christian theologian, the most eminent representative of the so-called school of Antioch. .... he was held in great respect, and took part in several synods, with a reputation for orthodoxy that was never questioned.”This respected Bishop of Mopsuestia was a very early trinitarian and a friend of John Chrysostom and of Cyril of Alexandria. - Encyclopedia Britannica, 14th ed., Vol. 22, p. 58. This highly-respected, very early trinitarian wrote, 1600 years ago, that Thomas’ statement at John 20:28 was “an exclamation of astonishment directed to God.” - p. 535, Vol. 3, Meyer’s Commentary on the New Testament (John), 1983, Hendrickson Publ. [2]Let's look at another verse that is EXACTLY like John 20:28, shall we?>(Matthew 16:23) But, turning his back, he said to Peter: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.”According to Jesus, Peter and Satan are the same person. Right?
>>524873531Uh, Jesus is still alive and reigning right now at the right hand of God. There is a huge difference between a physical and spiritual body. You’ll bend the knee to a LIVING GOD before being judged and then separated eternally from Him if you continue to believe in your cultic heresy. >Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. (Revelation 1:18)
>>524877250>>524876855>>524876272>>524875871>>524862188>>524861488>>524860722>>524877250This is what Trinitarians always do. They bombard you with a long list of "proof text" to overwhelm you and discourage you from analyzing any verses. This way, they can avoid being investigated.
>>524878049The Bible teaches that God cannot die. >>524873531Yet the Bible says Jesus died. Not only that but it states that God resurrected him. How can God die and bring himself back to life while simultaneously can never die?>(John 6:57) Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me.>(John 5:26) For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself.>(Acts 3:15) whereas YOU killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.>(Acts 2:32) This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses.
>>524875447It's not clear to those who "follow God", otherwise they would be able to explain it to others clearly.What we've seen in this thread is that those who claim that it's simple to understand use various heretical positions when presenting their analogies.The fact is that there are no good analogies to explain the trinity unless you're willing to leave orthodox positions and dip into heresy.2000 years of theologians arguing with each other, combing through and cross-referencing the Bible and the best they're come up with after all those years of debate is:>don't think about it, just accept it>it's beyond human comprehension
>>524857051Brother what
>>524878049>>Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. (Revelation 1:18)This verse proves your position wrong. This is Jesus admitting he died while here>>524873531 God cannot die.
>>524878248>HeresyThat's why I said I'm not a Christian.>>don't think about it, just accept itNo, think about it. Leave behind all the baggage that the rest of Christianity brings with it and just ponder on the concept of the trinity itself. >>it's beyond human comprehensionI don't believe that either. I'm not one who believes God "acts in mysterious ways" that we're too puny to ever understand. God has gifted us with mind and reasoning and sat us into a world that follows laws of logic and reason. If he were to act intelligible to us how could we discern that from unreasonableness or randomness?
>>524878058Yes the truth is always overwhelming to someone living in sin. Accept it and let it roll over and through you. Better that than the sword of Christ. >But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’” (Luke 19:27)>This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. / They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9)>The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. (Revelation 19:14-15)
>>524878337I believe in the trinity but some of my core believes may be found heretical by Christians so I don't use that lable as not to give others the false impression that what I say represents those Christian's believes.
>>524878716>intelligible*unintelligible
to be a christcuck, you literally have to be at the "it was real in my mind" holohoax survivor levels of spiritual jewishness. theres no other way to reconcile it. you have to literally buy up the dictionary of your own mind, and then change the definitions of words to mean "truth"/"jesus"/"god" etc. essentially, theyre little jews in training. christians are basically jews from the past, and jews are basically christians, but from the future. not the actual future, christians' future.
>>524878751So explain how I'm wrong. >>524861752>>524862107 >>524862280>>524862360>>524861139If you have the truth and I am lying tell me where I'm wrong. Notice how I didn't give a looong post to discourage anyone from answering. Instead, I focus on one verse at a time.
>>524856987Past present and future are all Time
>>524878716Fair enough.I'm not saying that I agree with those statements either, but only that they are what most mainline trinitarian churches will tell you if you try to dig into the details of the trinity concept
>>524861488>1 Tim 3v16 – Jesus Christ IS God in the flesh.>1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he” (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who” (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), “who,” or “which.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.” All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”).What you need to be aware of is that the KJV was based on a mistranslation of a slip of the pen. You see, God is θεὸς and who is ὃς. What happened was that the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other. As a result of this error the KJV translators mistranslated "who" for "God."That's why all those other Bibles up above replace "God" with "who" or "he who". The correct translation should be "he(Jesus) was manifest in the flesh" or "Who(Jesus) was manifest."
>>524878751Show me where I'm wrong here>>524879194
>>524859251If Jesus is fully God in the womb, then Jesus' fetal stem cells that were inside of Mary until the day she died are God. Doesn't make her part of the triad, though.
>>524856987It's all the same religion to me
>>524879094>guys guys the mouse the keyboard and the monitor are all 3 parts of the computer but non of them are the whole computer>I am so smartYou are just looking for any random 3 things and somehow thinking that makes the trinity makes sense
>It doesn't make sense to you because your definitions of "is" and "isn't" don't apply to god.Okay, then why do you use those words?
>>524879257Exactly, if you claim the trinity is valid quaternity is valid too
And at this rate just claim yourself as God and become a Luciferian
>>524861752>Ego'ei'mi is used by others in the Bible and do not point to God but to an event that happened in the past and continues down to their present.When Jesus says it here he's immediately accused of blasphemy, hence why in the following verse they attempt to stone him.
>>524859184>jews created the westyoure thinking of the greekshews sat idle for 1500 years and were content selling magic foreskins across europe. it was until the fall of Constantinople that allowed the greek classics past the great jewish "christian" firewall and into the hands of europeans again. and then like magic, *poof* instant Renaissance.the greeks have always been our Hyperboreans. and so long as jews exist, they always will be. for the simple fact that there are no other independent white nations without the handicap of jewry to look to.the jews know better than anyone. history has been one long struggle to come to terms with the fact they should have just hellenized and not been so intent on resisting the superior greek culture.
>Philippians Chapter 2: 9. For this very reason also God EXALTED him to a superior position and kindly GAVE HIM the name that is above every other name....Why does God exalt God? How can God give God a name above every other name?>Hebrews Chapter 4: 8 Although HE WAS A SON, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE from the things he suffered: 9. and after he had BEEN MADE PERFECT he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.Who could teach God a lesson? Who does God have to learn to obey? Who could teach God obedience? How can God be perfected? Isn't he already perfect?>1 Corinthians Chapter 15: 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, THEN THE SON HIMSELF WILL ALSO SUBJECT HIMSELF TO THE ONE WHO SUBJECTED ALL THINGS TO HIM, that God may be all things to everyoneHow can God subject himself to himself? How can God depend on God to subject everything to him? Isn't everything already subjected under him?>(1 Corinthians 15:27) For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ IT IS EVIDENT THAT IT IS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ONE WHO SUBJECTED ALL THINGS TO HIM.So everything is subjected to Jesus except God himself? If Jesus is God what's the point of pointing that out?>(1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.Self-explanatory>(1 Corinthians 15:24) Next, the end, WHEN HE HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM TO HIS GOD AND FATHER, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.God hands over the kingdom to himself?
>>524879437John 8:52,53-52The Jews said to him: “Now we do know that you have a demon. Abraham died, also the prophets, but you say, ‘If anyone observes my word, he will never taste death at all.’ 53You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died, are you? The prophets also died. Who do you claim to be?”Look at the context. The argument was whether he was better than Abraham or not. By claiming he existed before Abraham he admitted superiority over Abraham. That's why the Jews wanted to stone him.
>>524856987God is a divine source of everything that is good. It is omnipresent and incomprehensible. It has emanations/aeons which are itself personified so it can experience itself. Among these are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are more, but we don't tend to interact with them.>Blah blah modalismBitch, this is Gnosticism. I don't care if you call me a heretic.
>>524879556Nice fantasy but Greeks were barbaric savages enslaving and buttfucking each other over and over
>>524879593why do you quote jews whose words are meaningless, when you can just quote greeks whose words will be implicitly and universally understood?
>>524879155Yeah I understand. Personally, my believe in the trinity rests on a few simple premises that define my current understanding of the world. That objective morality exists. That there is more good as the universe has been created than there would be if it hadn't. That it's the possibility for humans to do the morally good is with us at any place and time, we just have to seek it out and choose it. And that there has been a human who's lead the way and done and teached nothing but good, to prove it's possible, so to speak.That's how I understand the trinity, this objective morality has a will who inspired the creation of the universe, who is with us everywhere, always and who inspired Jesus Christ. This is how they're all the same, but I also understand that Jesus didn't create the universe because he was still just a human, although fully divine in his actions. And that the father and the holy spirit aren't the same because the former needs to exist outside time and space to be able to create both time and space while the latter exists within time and space since it's everywhere and always, which are spacial and temporal attributes.But yeah I don't think that's how Christians understand or teach the trinity.
>>524879394Athanasius wrote a rather seething letter against raising Mary into a Tetrad, actually.
>>524879808>That it's the possibility*That the possibility
>>524879760youre thinking of jewsnote the kippahshttps://youtu.be/BNAT4ybsz_E
>>524879656No, they were already mad at him for saying.>Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.The "I am" at the end was the twisting of the knife and when they actually reached for their stones, not when he said that Abraham saw him and rejoiced.You're skipping verses to avoid the proper context. But you're someone who thinks the Trinity was invented in 325 at Nicaea I when there are many church fathers who wrote about it before, so it's hard to see you as someone arguing in good faith.
>>524879079>Please explain to me how I am wrongPlease understand you are in a cult. Jesus warns his followers of false prophets who falsely announce His return (Matt. 24:23-34). The Watchtower Society fulfills the criteria of a false prophet, having pointed to 1874 as the date when Christ’s presence began and currently teaching that it began in 1914. It is guilty of repeatedly predicting the end of the age in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1940s, and 1975. All while demanding absolute devotion to its teachings and proclaiming that it alone has “the Truth”, the Watchtower has reversed itself on a number of doctrines. Early Watchtower publications claimed that the Great Pyramid in Giza, Egypt, foretold dates for the end of the world, based on the lengths of its passageways. When these dates failed, the measurements were lengthened to accommodate new dates. Russell’s successor was “Judge” Joseph Rutherford (1869-1942). He moved the date for the world’s end to 1925, proclaimed that “Millions Now Living Will Never Die!” And built a house in San Diego for the anticipated return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and other “ancient worthies”. Rutherford taught that Jehovah “governs his universe” from Alcyone (a star system in the Pleiades cluster) and that black skin is a sign of the biblical curse on Cain.
>>524879079The Watchtower Society claims that ancient Christian leaders rejected the Trinity, however, this is not true. For example, in its pamphlet “Should You Believe In The Trinity?” The Watchtower claims that Clement of Alexandria considered Jesus “not equal” to the Father. Yet Clement actually praised Jesus as “the Divine Word, He that is truly most manifest Deity, He that is made equal to the Lord of the universe.” He further explained, “I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the Third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father….the Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of substance, one with the Father, is eternal and uncreated.” (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, pp. 202, 468, 574).
>>524856987Not a big fan of jew worship.
>>524857051Same here brother. I'm an agnostic atheist but I believe the Trinity, the Bible, and I pray to Jesus.
>>524880481Right on, brother.
>>524861382Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
>>524880094>You're skipping verses to avoid the proper context.No I am not. you are ignoring Greek grammar>>524861752>>524862107>>524862280>>524862360Jesus didn't say "I am." He said "I existed before Abraham down to this day." Look at John 8:57."You are not even 50 years old and you claim to have seen Abraham?" Jesus-"I existed before Abraham." The context shows they were talking about Jesus age, not his identity. Jesus answered accordingly to their statement ABOUT his age by claiming he existed before Abraham. >>524880094>But you're someone who thinks the Trinity was invented in 325 at Nicaea I when there are many church fathers who wrote about it before, so it's hard to see you as someone arguing in good faith.Answered >>524873957>>524873992
>>524880401I think the fundamental problem with a lot of restorationist movements is that they're all built on really shitty latin translations of greek fathers, incomplete sets of writings of church fathers, and just a lack of information in general that was not readily available until the modern era. I found a Church of Christ book claiming that the earliest pope we have evidence of actually existing is "Boniface III" lol. And that was from the 1950's. I think we really don't understand how good we have it today with the internet putting every church father's writings at our finger tips to show what was taught and disputed from the 1st century onward.
>>524859251>Muslim detected>>524859532>The holy spirit is the feminineNT says otherwise>>524873247>Greek text says something different when translated from it's original language. Coptic Christians don't agree with JW.
>>524880626>Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:That's not even the original translation.>Revised Standard Version published in 1952 reads: "... who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.”>The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson published about a hundred years ago reads: “...who, though being in God’s form, yet did not meditate a usurpation to be like God.”>An American Translation published by Smith and Goodspeed reads: “...Though he possessed the nature of God, he did not grasp at equality with God.”>The New Testament in an Improved Version upon the basis of Archbishop Newcome’s new translation published in 1808 reads: "... who, being in the form of God, did not eagerly grasp at the resemblance to God.”>The Emphasised Bible by J. Rotherham reads: “...who in form of God subsisting, not a thing to be seized accounted the being equal with God.”>The Riverside New Testament translated by William G. Ballantine, D.D., reads: “..., who, though he was in the form of God, did not think that equality with God was some thing to be grasped.”>New World Translation -"...who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.Why all the blasphemy?
>>524880626>>524880737Because that's the original translation. The original translation is harpagmon/harpamos. It derives from harpazo which means: to seize by force, to claim for oneself, to snatch out or take away. That word is then used to create harpagmon in Philipians 2:6 which means now THE ACT OF seizing by force or steal away violently. That's the same Greek derivative where the word "harpoon" comes from. A tool used to snatch up something violently or by force away. So the original idea is that Jesus never thought of taking God's sovereignty away from him by force the way Satan did with Adam and Eve. The original translation of that verse, alone, proves not only Jesus is not God but not even Jesus thought of himself as God as well. He never wanted equality with him.>“We cannot find any passage where [har·pazo] or any of its derivatives [including har·pag·mon] has the sense of ‘holding in possession,’ ‘retaining’. It seems invariably to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch violently’. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense ‘grasp at’ into one which is totally different, ‘hold fast.’”—The Expositor’s Greek Testament (Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.
>>524880733>Coptic Christians don't agree with JW.That's because they use the KJV translated into their language. Not the original Sahidic Coptic version from 1,700 years ago before the KJV.
>>524879656Typical of JW’s. You aren’t arguing in good faith a cherry picking verses and ignoring its context. They only moved to stone Jesus when He claimed the Godly “I am” name and claimed to exist before Abraham, equating Himself to God.>Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:58-59)
>>524880737You asked why the Father would Give the Son authority. Philippians 2:7 answers that
>>524880876>>524878058So, I literally just showed you why KJV is the pure word of God, not a "mistranslation". There are no contradictions or errors in the KJV, meanwhile in your modern translations which are corrupted, there are many errors and contradictions, some of them I showcase here:>>524869481>>524869654I've also shown you how the KJV is a miracle mathematically but you just want to ignore that because you would rather believe a lie:https://truthischrist.com/elton-anomaly-823543/https://truthischrist.com/70x7-kjb-code-jesus-is-the-son-of-god/https://truthischrist.com/seven/www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS78mFJcvhQwww.youtube.com/watch?v=pcvFX5uIRb4I really hope you get out of your cult and just accept the truth, not matter how comfortable you may feel in your group.
>>524880668>>524861752>>524862107>>524862280>>524862360>Everyone else’s translations are wrong except mine which just so happen to agree with my new made up doctrinesWasn’t your Bible created by laymen who made egregious errors in interpretation? No wonder you are forced to only read Watchtower material. They literally prey upon your ignorance.
>>524881136Thank you for the links anon
>>524880918You keep ignoring the elephant in the room. >>524861752>>524862107>>524862280>>524862360God said Ego'eimi ho on. Jesus said just Ego'eimi. God said "I am the being" OR "I will prove to be what I will prove" OR "I will become whatever I have to become."Jesus merely said "I existed" or "I have been." That's why those Bible translations are different. Exodus said>"I will be what I will be" meaning: "My nature will become evident from my actions." - JPS Tanakh, Jewish Study Bible, Oxford Edition>‘I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE,’ - p. 1267, Vol.2, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Eerdmans Publ., 1984.>"I WILL BE - Moffatt’s translation>“I WILL BE” - Byington’s translation>"I WILL BECOME - Rotherham’s>"I-SHALL-COME-TO-BE - Concordant Literal Version>"I SHALL BE" - Julia Smith’s>"I WILL BE" Leeser’s>“I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” - New World Translation>"I wyl be what I wyll be" - Miles Coverdale Bible (1535).>"I WILL BE" - The Anchor Bible (William H.C. Propp),>"I WILL BE" - The Five Books of Moses (Everett Fox),>"I WILL BE" - The Stone Tanach (Artscroll/Mesorah),>"I WILL BE" - The Five Books of Moses (Robert Alter),
I was about to say this was another Korantard posting. Never mind OP. You at least know the source material. Carry on. PS. Solomon totally found the Holy Spirt. AKA his wife Asherah. (All over Psalms and Proverbs and the Deuterocanon attested to him.) Al Lot pointers at the Kaaba go lick the black stone you pussies!
>>524857051Hecate?
>>524881136>KJV is the pure word of GodKJV is a kiked translation from the kiked and fake Masoretic text.
>>524881116>7No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human.Then this proves he is not God. If God emptied himself of all his power then he is not God. His power is what makes him "Almighty." Not only that but the end said he "became human." The problem is that you Trinitarians believe he is fully God and fully Man. This verse just says he ONLY became man.
>>524881441Better cover your eyes, you aren’t allowed to read this. Errors in Jehovah's Witness TranslationThe New World Translation (NWT), produced by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, has been criticized for numerous alleged errors that reflect the theological stance of Jehovah’s Witnesses, particularly their rejection of the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus Christ. One of the most frequently cited examples is John 1:1, where the NWT translates the Greek phrase "the Word was God" as "the Word was a god," omitting the definite article before "God" and thereby implying a distinction between Jesus and the Father, contrary to mainstream Christian doctrine This alteration is seen as a deliberate attempt to align the text with the Witnesses' belief that Jesus is a created being, not co-eternal with God Similarly, in Colossians 1:15–17, the NWT inserts the word "other" four times—though it is not present in the original Greek text—to suggest that Jesus was created before other things, thus supporting the doctrine that Jesus is a created entity rather than the uncreated Creator This insertion is considered a significant textual distortion by critics who argue it misrepresents the passage’s intent, which affirms Christ’s role in creation Another notable change occurs in Acts 8:29, where the NWT renders the Holy Spirit’s directive as "the spirit said" instead of "the Spirit said," reflecting the Witnesses’ view that the Holy Spirit is not a person but an active force of God This is consistent with their broader theological framework that denies the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
>>524881495The greek goddess? What about her?
>>524880668Without the context of John 1:1-14 describing the Logos as God and preceding the world, I could see you making this mistake. There's two possible readings>Option 1. The Jews want to stone Jesus for blaspheming that He is God.>Option 2. The Jews want to stone Jesus for blaspheming that He precedes Abraham.Option 2 is ALWAYS true, but in the full context of the Book of John, so is 1 and he's doubly blasphemous.>but he didn't say ho'on! And here's a bunch of examples of OTHER people saying it without ho'on without blasphemingYeah because the word ego eimi is a TRANSLATION of the name in hebrew/aramaic. IN CONTEXT it means the Divine Name is being stated, but otherwise it just means "I am" or "I existed" The Greek Septuagint, which is the version of the Old Testament which the New Testament generally follows, renders these three names as:>Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh: Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν>Ehyeh: Ἐγώ εἰμι>YHVH: ΚύριοςThus either ego eimi ho'on OR ego eimi would have been recognized as the Divine Name in Greek.We even see this used later in John 18:4-6:>"Whom seek ye?" They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazaraean." Jesus saith to them, "I am" [Ἐγώ εἰμι] ... Then when He said to them, "I am," they went backward and fell to the ground
>>524881441The NWT also alters the translation of the Greek word *proskuneo*, meaning "worship," in Hebrews 1:6, rendering it as "do obeisance" rather than "worship," to avoid implying that Jesus is worthy of divine worship, which contradicts the Witnesses’ belief that Jesus is not divine Similarly, in Hebrews 1:8, the NWT translates "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever" as "God is your throne," which critics argue distorts the original meaning and removes the divine title from Jesus The NWT has also been criticized for mistranslating the Greek word *kuriou* (of the Lord) as "Jehovah’s" in numerous passages, inserting the name "Jehovah" where it is not supported by the original text, thereby creating a distinction between Jehovah and Jesus that is not present in the original languages This practice is seen as an effort to reinforce the Witnesses’ belief in a hierarchical Godhead, with Jehovah as the supreme deity and Jesus as a subordinate created being Other changes include the addition of the word "other" in Colossians 1:15–17, the omission of the word "me" in John 14:14 ("ask me anything"), and the use of "taking in knowledge of" instead of "know" in John 17:3, all of which are interpreted as attempts to support the Witnesses’ doctrines on salvation, eternal life, and the nature of God The NWT also translates *kolasis* as "cutting-off" rather than "punishment," aligning with the Witnesses’ belief in annihilationism rather than eternal torment.
>>524881441Critics argue that these changes, among many others, demonstrate a pattern of theological bias, where the translation is shaped to fit pre-existing beliefs rather than being an objective rendering of the original texts The Watchtower Society has not disclosed the identities of the translators, raising concerns about transparency and scholarly oversight As a result, the NWT is widely regarded by many biblical scholars and religious institutions as a flawed and biased translation that should not be used as a primary study Bible.https://carm.org/bad-translations-of-the-jehovahs-witness-bible-the-new-world-translation-nwthttps://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.htmlhttps://mbcpathway.com/2015/12/21/four-examples-of-where-the-new-world-translation-gets-it-wrong/
>>524881542Ah yes, let not go for the faithful copies from Antioch, (Acts 11:26“And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”)but instead go for the pagan texts from alexandria egypt twisted by gnostic psychopaths like origen. What kind of logic is that?>>524881406No problem. I really recommend reading this book btw: https://download.timefortruth.co.uk/docs/Christian_Soldiers_Battle_Notes.pdf
>>524881441Observations, Evaluations, And Criticisms of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION By Noted Greek And New Testament Scholars:- DR. J.R. MANTEY (who is quoted on pages 1158-1159, of the Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation): "A shocking mistranslation". "Obsolete and incorrect". "It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 "The Word was a god."- DR. BRUCE M. METZGER of Princeton University (Professor New Testament Language and Literature): "A frightful mistranslation...", "erroneous...", "pernicious..." "reprehensible...". "If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists."- DR. SAMUEL J. MIKOLASKI of Zurich, Switzerland: "This anarthrous (used without the article) construction does not mean what the indefinite article 'a' means in English. It is monstrous to translate the phrase 'the Word was a god.'"- DR. PAUL L. KAUFFMAN of Portland, Oregon: "The Jehovah's Witnesses [translators] evidence an abysmal ignorance of the basic tenets of Greek grammar in their mistranslation of John 1:1."- DR. CHARLES L. FEINBERG of La Mirada, California: "I can assure you that the rendering which the Jehovah's Witnesses give John 1:1 is not held by any reputable Greek scholar.
>>524881630She is a triple goddess. Not a unique concept. Some pagan gods and goddess have triple forms who carry out different but related functions. Semites are too stupid to understand it. Can barely understand multitasking as. Hints of this all over the Bible for the Son and Holy Spirt along with God the Father.
i read a couple different versions of the bible. most of the stuff i believe after reading it would mark me as a heretic by most of the major churches. it brings to mind a quote from the best supreme court judge when he wrote about the constitution of the usa->it says what it says and it doesn't say what it doesn't say
>>524881136>So, I literally just showed you why KJV is the pure word of God, not a "mistranslation". There are no contradictions or errors in the KJV, meanwhile in your modern translations which are corrupted, there are many errors and contradictions, some of them I showcase here:Why should anyone care about the KJV when there are manuscripts, Scrolls and papyri fragments older then the KJV? Why not just bypass the KJV and go to those older manuscripts who were closer to the original sources?Second, I already proved wrong some of those mistranslated verses here>>524879194>>524862569>>524861139
>>524881874Interesting, thanks for sharing.
>>524881441- DR. JAMES L. BOYER of Winona Lake, Indiana: "I have never heard of, or read of any Greek scholar who would agree to the interpretation of this [John 1:1] verse insisted upon by the Jehovah's Witnesses... I have never encountered one of them [Society member] who had any knowledge of the Greek language."- DR. WALTER MARTIN (who does not teach Greek but has studied the language): "The translation 'a god' instead of 'God' is erroneous and unsupported by any good Greek scholarship, ancient or contemporary, and is a translation rejected by all recognized scholars of the Greek language, many of whom are not even Christians, and cannot fairly be said to be biased in favor of the orthodox contention."- DR. WILLIAM[1] BARCLAY of the University of Glasgow, Scotland: "The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New Testament translations. John 1:1 is translated: 'the Word was a god.' a translation which is grammatically impossible. It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."- DR. F.F. BRUCE of the University of Manchester, England: "Much is made by Arian amateur grammarians of the omission of the definite article with 'God' in the phrase 'and the Word was God.' Such an omission is common with nouns in a predicative construction... 'a god' would be totally indefensible."- (The late Dr. Barclay and Dr. Bruce are generally regarded as Great Britain's leading Greek scholars. Each have New Testament translations in print.)
>>524881441- DR. ERNEST C. COLWELL of the University of Chicago: "A definite predicate nominative has the article when it follows the verb; it does not have the article when it precedes the verb... this statement cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas: 'My Lord and my God.'-John 20:28."- DR. PHILIP B. HARNER of Heidelberg College: "The verb preceding an anarthrous predicate, would probably mean that the LOGOS was 'a god' or a divine being of some kind, belonging to the general category of THEOS but a distinct being from HO THEOS. In the form the John actually uses, the word THEOS is placed at the beginning for emphasis [thus ruling out the 'a god' translation]."- DR. J. JOHNSON of California State University, Long Beach: "No justification whatsoever for translating THEOS EN HO LOGOS as 'the Word was a god.' There is no syntactical parallel to Acts 23:6 where there is a statement in indirect discourse; John 1:1 is direct... I am neither a Christian nor a Trinitarian."- DR. EUGENE A. NIDA, head of Translation Department, American Bible Society: "With regard to John 1:1, there is of course a complication simply because the New World Translation was apparently done by persons who did not take seriously the syntax of the Greek." (Responsible for the Good News Bible - the committee worked under him.)
>>524881441- DR. B.F. WESTCOTT (whose Greek New Testament text - not the English part - is used in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation): "The predicate (God) stands emphatically first, as in John 4:24. It is necessarily without the article... No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by [this] form of expression, which simply affirms the true deity of the Word... in the third clause 'the Word' is declared to be 'God', and so included in the unity of the Godhead."- DR. J.J. GRIESBACH (whose Greek New Testament text - not the English part - is used in the Society's publication The Emphatic Diaglott): "So numerous and clear are the arguments and testimonies of Scriptures in favor of the true Deity of Christ, that I can hardly imagine how, upon the admission of the Divine authority of Scripture, and with regard to fair rules of interpretation, this doctrine can by any man be called in doubt. Especially the passage, John 1:1-3, is so clear and so superior to all exception, that by no daring efforts of either commentators or critics can it be snatched out of the hands of the defenders of the truth."
>>524881932>Why should anyone care about the KJV when there are corrupted manuscripts from satan?I wonder why indeed.. You are going to those Bible with errors and contradictions instead of reading the pure word of God that has no errors or contradictions.Look: >>524869481>>524869654
>>524881711>We even see this used later in John 18:4-6:What about these verses >>524862280
>>524882077>speedreading my postgo back and read it again and read:>Yeah because the word ego eimi is a TRANSLATION of the name in hebrew/aramaic. IN CONTEXT it means the Divine Name is being stated, but otherwise it just means "I am" or "I existed"
>>524856987horseshoe theory!dimwits: *looks at image* makes sensemidwits: but if X is Y and Y is Z then tautologically X is Z!! you're dumb!!topwits: God transcends human logic because he existed before T=0 and resides in his own self-sufficient plane
>>524882068>that has no errors or contradictions.KJV authors added verses into the text that were not found in the original manuscripts. These are from the KJV Here are the verses that are not found in the oldest NT manuscripts:>Matt. 5:23 without a cause>Matt. 6:13 For thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.>Matt. 6:25 or what ye shall drink*>Matt. 16:2 When it is evening, ye say, it will be fair weather: for the sky is red.>Matt. 16:3 This entire verse>Matt.17:21 and fasting>Matt.18:12 into the mountains>Matt. 20:7 and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive>Matt. 22:13 and take him away>Matt. 23:35 son of Barachias*>Matt. 24:10 and shall hate one another*>Matt. 24:31 sound of a*>Matt. 24:41 women shall be>Matt. 25:6 cometh>Matt. 27:52 and the graves were opened*>Matt. 27: 53 and went*>Matt. 28:19 therefore>Mark 4:37 so that it was now full*>Mark 6:51 beyond measure and wondered>Mark 7:8 For as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things as ye do>Mark 7:14 unto me every one of you>Mark 9:24 with tears>Mark 9:29 and fasting>Mark 9:44 This entire verse>Mark 9:45 into the fire that shall never be quenched>Mark 9:46 This entire verse>Mark 9:47 fire>Mark 9:49 and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt>Mark 10:24 for them that trust in riches>Mark 10:30 houses and brethren and sisters and mothers and children and lands with persecutions*>Mark 14:30 twice*>Mark 14:68 and the cock crew>Mark 14:72 the second time*twice*>Mark 16:9-20 All these verses>Luke 2: 40 in spirit>Luke 8:45 and sayest thou, Who touched me? >Luke 16:16 and every man presseth into it>Luke 17:12 which stood afar off*>Luke17:35 women>Luke 18:11 with himself*>Luke 22:43 This entire verse>Luke 22:44 This entire verseCONTINUED
Every single chapter of John affirms the trinity and the divinity of Christ.But I don't see how copy pasting bible verses you ignore is going to make you read them when there's already two other people spamming copy pastes and you're ignoring them by replying to your own posts.So I'll end with this: The JW translation of John 1:3 affirms that Jesus created all things. And if all things are created through Him, how does that include Himself, a created being?
My arm is not my heart and my heart is not my brain. All 3 are me though.
>>524882068>>524882454>Luke 22:68 me, nor let me go>Luke 23:5 teaching*>Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not what they do>Luke 24:42 and of an honeycomb>John 1:25 asked him, and*>John 3:13 which is in heaven>John 4:9 for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans>John 5:3 waiting for the moving of the water>John 5:4 This entire verse>John 5:25 and now is*>John 8:1-11 all these verses>John 8:59 going through the midst of them and so passed by>John 16:16 because I go to the Father>John 19:23 and also his coat*>John 21:25 This entire verse>Acts 6:3 Holy Ghost and (should read "spirit of")>Acts 6:8 faith (should read "grace")>Acts 8:37 This entire verse>Acts 9:31 churches (should read "church") were (should read "was")>Acts 15:32 and confirmed them*>Acts 18:5 pressed in the spirit (should read "earnestly occupied with the Word")>Acts 18:21 I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but>Rom. 3:22 and upon all>Rom. 6:12 it in>Rom. 7:6 that being dead (should read "being dead to that")>Rom. 8:26 for us>Rom. 11:6 But if it be of works, then it is no more grace; otherwise work is no more work>Rom. 14:6 and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it>1 Cor. 2:1 testimony (should read "mystery")>1 Cor. 6:20 and in your spirit, which are God's>1 Cor. 7:5 fasting and>1 Cor. 10:28 for the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof>1 Cor. 15:24 cometh>2 Cor. 4:14 by (should read "with")>Gal. 3:1 that ye should not obey the truth>Gal. 3:17 in Christ>Gal. 5:19 adultery>Gal. 5:21 murders>Eph. 5:9 Spirit (should read "light")>Eph. 5:30 of his flesh, and of his bones>2 Thess. 2:9 Even him>1 Tim. 3:16 God (should read "who")*>1 Tim. 4:12 in spirit*>1 Tim. 6:5 from such withdraw thyself*>2 Tim. 3:3 without natural affection*CONTINUED
>God can do anything>Can't be 3 in 1 though
>>524882068>>524882454>>524882484>Heb. 12:18 mount that might be touched and that burned with fire (should read "fire that might be touched and burned")*>Heb. 12:20 or thrust through with a dart*>James 5:16 Confess your faults (should read "Therefore confess your sins")*>1 Pet. 2:5 spiritual (before the word "sacrifices")>1 Pet. 3:8 courteous (should read "humble")>2 Pet. 1:1 God and our (should read "our Lord and")*>1 John 3:16 of God>1 John 5:7 in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one>1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth>1 John 5:13 and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God>Rev. 1:17 unto me, Fear not*>Rev. 2:22 their (should read "her")*>Rev. 5:3 neither under the earth*>Rev. 5:9 us (omitted by the Alexandrian Ms., one of the three oldest Mss. known)>Rev. 5:10 us (should read "them") we (should read "they")>Rev. 5:13 and under the earth*>Rev. 6:2 to conquer (should read "he conquered")*>Rev. 9:4 neither any green thing*>Rev. 9:13 the four horns of*>Rev. 10:6 and the sea, and the things which are therein*>Rev. 11:17 and art to come*>Rev. 12:12 inhabiters of* of (before the words "the sea")>Rev. 14:5 before the throne of God*>Rev. 14:12 here are they*>Rev. 16:5 and shalt be (should read "the holy")*>Rev. 16:7 another out of*>Rev. 16:11 and their sores* of their deeds*>Rev. 16:17 from the throne*CONTINUED
>>524882068>>524882454>>524882484>>524882503>Rev. 18:22 of whatsoever craft he be* and the stone of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee*>Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished*>Rev. 21:24 of them which are saved* and honor*>Rev. 21:26 and honor*>Rev. 22:3 more** Omitted by the Sinaitic Manuscript. These not thus marked are omitted by both the Sinaitic and Vatican Manuscripts. The Epistles to Timothy, the latter part of Hebrews, and all of Revelation, are missing from the Vatican Manuscript, No. 1209, having been lost during the fifteen or more centuries since it was written. The Sinaitic Manuscript is perfect and complete and is the oldest known copy of the Scriptures, having been written (it is believed) in the year 331 A.D.
>>524882458He is that he is. Before and after are meaningless to something outside of time.
>>524882387Then you end up with all of these "topwits" throughout the ages making wildly different and incompatible claims about God, because now you have license to say anything and everything about God no matter how absurd and contradictory, because if questioned you get to answer:>well he's outside of time and space, it doesnt have to make sense to the lowly human mind
>>524882618Can you explain quantum physics?
>>524856987Notice how the Jehovah’s Witness avoids my comments. They are trained by their cult to teach but not to listen to interlocutors. They are no different than a robot, cutting and pasting the same debunked arguments, some of which they don’t even have a response for. They don’t understand that just because they have an argument they can copy and paste, doesn’t make it a strong one or even a right one; they just accept one that sounds convincing. Being smart makes you more prone to confirmation bias. In retrospect, it shouldn’t be surprising. Confirmation bias is what happens when that little lawyer in your head takes control of your thinking process, and smart people have a very smart little lawyer in there.
>>524882503>>524882484>>524882454>>524882549Yes and when there were to manuscripts that had the words added in order for the verse to grammatically correct in english, they wrote it in italics. God lead the KJV translators in that process, look at pic related of:>>524869654You are sidestepping. Your "Bible" has contradictions, and errors. KJV does not. The pure word of God has to be perfect, otherwise God is not perfect. That is a simple fact.
>>524882618that's why u don't make claims outside of the Bible
>>524877792I debunked this exact argument a couple months ago (search in archive) and yet you are triumphantly copy and pasting it as if it’s still valid.
>>524882938Found it. You’ve been copy pasting this same paragraph since 2015 lol.https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/508290156/#508299994
>>524882068Are you aware that the KJV used a "corrupted" text to translate? The Textus Receptus, Erasmus Text 1516, Complutensian Polyglott (in Greek and Latin), of 1514-1517, Roman Catholic RheimsNew Testamentof 1582, Tyndale, Coverdale, Bishops Bible. A lot of those "corrupted" translations also use those.
>>524882692>God lead the KJV translators in that process, look at pic related of:>>524869654 #So God only lead the KJV translators. What about these translators the KJV was based on?>>524883235
schizos and their imaginary friends. sigh.
>>524862280>Ego'ei'mi is used by others in the Bible and do not point to God but to an event that happened in the past and continues down to their present.What are you talking about? None of your examples actually work. Did you expect that no one would check your claims?
>>524883507don't look under your bed, patrick
>>524883235>>524883352>Heres some random stuff that isnt relevant since I only go with what I "feel" the Bible says by giving my own meaning to the greek words, not what the Bible actually saysAnyways, your "Bible" has errors and contradictions, I showed that to you. The KJV does not. No matter how much you try to sidestep that truth, it's the truth.
>>524883582
>>524862280
>>524862280Did you actually try to check anything you posted?
>>524862280more
>>524862280more.
>>524883181Of course I have been copy/pasting MY OWN WORK. You think I'm going to retype everything?>>524882692A lot of those words were not found in older manuscripts. In fact, the KJV has ENTIRE verses not found in older manuscripts.
>>524879023>essentially, theyre little jews in training. christians are basically jews from the past, and jews are basically christians, but from the future. not the actual future, christians' futureWTF are you even trying to say? Do pajeets really have to put their 70IQ status on display 24/7?
>>524862280Is this the sort of thing where you just copied stuff from a pamphlet?
>>524883927how would u have felt if u hadn't eaten breakfast this morning?
>>524857051God the Father is the One God who from eternity begets not creates the Son and spirates the Spirit, who are not creatures since they share into the same Divine essence.
>>524883917Just because they were not found, doesn't mean the words don't belong there. Like in the example I showed half of the verse of John 2:23 is in italics, because half the verse wasn't in Greek manuscripts, then 200 years later Greek manuscripts were found that had that half of the verse. Anyways, I've showed you many times before how the KJV is a miracle, like from these links for example: >>524881136This is just going around in circles now because you want to stick to your modern translations that have errors and contradictions, because you want to brainwash yourself into thinking they are the "correctly translated Bibles"
i swear this thread and its replies are necro'd from like a month ago.anyways fuck off council fags
>>524883879>>524883823>>524883670>>524883582
>>524885732
>>524862280>>524883934basic /pol/ npc theory dunks all over this 2000 year old jewish satan/sinning bullshitsatan is such a nonsensical concept that christcucks and jews cant even define it. scholars and linguists define it merely as "adversary", which means its interchangably used with "people who dont agree with my batshit jewish nonsense", also known as anti-semitesjews will themselves define satan as the eternal celestial form of anti-semitism. christcucks literally think satan is some copy pasted ahriman/angra mainyupol will tell you satan is what jews label as opposition, but its controlled opposition, designed to lose to jews.but satan as the retconned character is typically the adult in the room who disagrees with the schizophrenic jew who wants unlimited foreskins to gobbleremember folks, jewish things are jewish.go read the greeks. they laid it all out beautifully. women and children are the most prone to "doing what feels good", which is why they need strong men to temper them and lead them to live lives of virtue. telling a child not to do something will only make them want to do it. so christianity, even in the rare cases where there might be an argument that its actually attempting to do something right and not strictly something which benefits jews at your own expense, achieves nothing more than the D.A.R.E. program does, it encourages behaviors that might otherwise never wouldve been considered. and this is something you would have noticed within a single generationthe problem with christianity is its all set in stone. it cannot evolve. it cannot improve. it cannot further its own understanding. it died with jesus christ (who never existed). everything since then has been a series of jews and pedophiles retconning aspects to better serve jews, jewish exigesis. like the deification of jesus, whose name literally means "yahweh is salvation" to better incorporate christcucks as the dhalit caste of noahides under a universal jewish suzerain
>>524856987Sandnigga babble shit.
>>524885732>>524885790
>>524884320Once again, these are the sources used to translate the KJV. >>524883235Are they corrupted too?
>>524885732>>524885790>>524886500You can literally just look at the Greek text and see that what you added in parentheses earlier is pure fabrication
>>524862280The funny thing is, the Jehovah’s Witness begins to run out of arguments. It’s easy in their minds to twist and reinterpret the Greek of singular words or phrases, even LGBT people do that with the New Testament. But then you have Christ in parables performing actions like forgiving sin and accepting worship of Himself in multiple places (which only God can do) and their whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
>>524882480God is not mad of parts, that's heresy.
>>524858887>These terms and beliefs are not found in the Bible but in Plato, Aristotle, and Pythagoras.Please, tell me where I can read about this in Pythagoras.
>>524886710"But in the translation case, critics of the KJVO take those similarities and attempt to make a mountain out of a mole hill and claim that the KJV MUST HAVE borrowed from the Douay or even the Geneva based SOLELY on a coincidence when there was a 50-75% chance in many passages where the renderings would have been the same if both versions would have been translated on entirely different planets."Dont know why im bothering to reply since you so clearly want to believe lies and ignore everything I show you only to sidetrack to make some weird argument no one even understands to make yourself look smart.
>>524887820-EncyclopediaAmericana, 1957 ed., p. 362, v. 23.-The World of Copernicus, Armitage, 1963, p. 27.Men of Mathematics, E. T. Bell, p. 22, 1965.Bullfinch's Mythology, 1948, p. 313.EncyclopediaBritannica, 14th ed., v. 18, p. 803, andAn Encyclopedia of Religion, Ferm, 1945, p. 630.Encyclopedia Britannica, 14th ed., v. 18, p. 804.p. 49,Greece - The Horizon Concise History of Greece, Eliot, 1972.
>>524864911God is everything. You, me, rocks, air, water, flesh, spirit. Nothing is outside of God and all living beings are by definition the children of God.I don't know why more Christians don't come to this logical conclusion and instead view God as some old man who sits on a throne, occasionally attends a workshop where he knocks out new creations with some power tools and has beef with his own soldier creations that he invented to tell him how awesome he is.God = The One.Jesus = Flesh/material.The Holy Spirit = Consciousness. The code isn't particularly difficult to crack.All of the lore like angels, demons and Hell is the capeshit of its day. Stories to make God more exciting for midwits and bring them over from paganism and the Greek/Roman pantheons.
>>524889925In Pythagoras
>>524887820pythagoreans believed the triangle was perfection. it wasnt. it was just novel. interchangable. applicable. modular. but gematria brained schizos can use that 3 sided triangle to mean trinity, as they could with plato's charioteer, with logos, reason and desire, or literally anything with 3 parts. we know this because its what they did, and do. but its merely reducing nuance down to a level a toddler can understand. not everything is affixed to a number. our gods arent children who need to ensure everything is done 7 times either, that was initially a pythagorean fixation, and subsequently, a jewish obsession, with little application in reality. truly, schizo. schizo's can become perceptive to the point that they begin needing to see patterns existing where they might not, and sometimes seek to play god with the gods and project their own beliefs and desire for a pattern to emerge where it wont, and will come to a definitive conclusion despite no such pattern existing, because its a way of reassuring them of their own beliefs, or "powers"this concept is the primary division between the platonist-abrahamist dividing line: which is the ability to discern whether your subjective observation is indicative of that which is innate to reality itself, or is merely a byproduct of it, i.e. a consequence of something else, either memetic or subjective and applicable only to you. it is the inability to distinguish the difference between what is real, and what is imagination.the trinity is a pagan puzzle necessitated by simply asking the question: if a creator exists, who/what created the creator? this trinity formula would be more in line with Parmenides, not Pythagoras. Pythagoras was obsessed with 3, but as far as what the trinity actually is, father, son, legos, that was more specific to the greeks, but they didnt limit themselves to 3 and only 3, but Pythagoras likely would have been the one to do so.its just a whose the clone/pointing spiderman question
>>524889444You think the KJV just fell out of heaven? It was translated from previous Bibles and some manuscripts. The problem is that some of those Bibles like the Textus Receptus are part of your list of "corrupted" text.
>>524890871i like how they deceptively rewrote the ending of Mark to better suit their fourth century universalist noahide political agenda by portraying jesus as being a god, and still to this day, just continue rolling with a completely fake ending.the "perfect word of god" everybody..
How does this off topic sub-garbage get 300 replies
>>524887820
>>524890871>>524891369its almost as cringe as still to this day promoting the shroud of turin, even though the deacon of the church admitted it was fake, that they even caught the forger who made it, and that the church even went so far as to pay people to fake miracles in its presence to better lure in gullible goyim so they could be swindled out of their meager wealth:>"ut subtili ingenio aurum extorqueretur ab eis, inibi confingebatur miracula mendaciter certis hominibus ad hoc precio conductis, qui se sanari fingebant in ostensione dicti sudari, quod domini sudarium ab omnibus credebatur."christianity's jewishness is stamped all over it from its inception. as far as i know, there was never a period of history where christians werent actively jewing people over for jewish benefit. the more you read about its history, the more explicit it becomes. how theyve managed to keep this sinking shit afloat, truly is a wonder. the amount of resources jews put into it just to painstakingly copy famous works by hand one letter at a time just to insert a single fake mention of jesus or christians never ceases to amaze me. the sheer dedication and conscious and deliberate efforts they had to openly lie to peoples face about god/s takes an unprecedented evil who only pol would be able to fully grasp by drawing comparison to talmudic and torah observant jews.
>>524889925>>524890734>>524891369I dont know how my point was repeatedly missed. You dont find anything "in" Pythagoras, we dont have his works. The schizo Millerite is probably just copying phrase from works he doesn't actually understand, and it shows
>>524891926these are the most popular threads on this board, jannies must be asleep. they rarely allow us to criticize abrahamism. remember how fast they shut down zutts, and jesus getting arrested with the naked boy? i would be content talking about those topics all day every day, and i think most anons would too. better than the daily slop of curated asmongold nick fuentes trump tweets and hating women bullshit you see literally every. single. day. nothing ever comes of it. 5 years from now youll wish you had that time back. 5 years from now ill wish i talked to more people about jesus being arrested with a naked boy and how the jew god's commandments are basically 8/10ths anti-anti-semitism
>>524892827>jesus getting arrested with the naked boyYou have to be actually retarded to describe that event that way
>>524892501i said you wouldnt find it tho. but the closest would be pythagoras. and we can surmise his teachings because of all the pythagorean schools that existed well into the christian period.
>>524893040or just learn to koine and read it in the original greek rather than the approved for goyim (((translation))) which cant agree on anything, let alone the simplest of wordsyoud have to be retarded to think a jew worshipper would be giving you a reliable translation and not seek to censor or scrub out the uniquely jewish behavior that would easily disqualify's someone divinity and any absence of (((sin))) that could compromise the entire narrative.
>>524893040>>524893542did you know they copyright "god's word"?tell me, why would anyone need to copyright "god's word" in an attempt to profit off it? seems kind of, counterintuitive doesnt it?the answer is: because its a jewish grift. its fake. whole thing. you will not find a single iota of anything related to divinity as it actually exists irl, in either the old testament or the new testament. its a jewish adventure series. works of fiction set in real world backdrops.you think if god imminated into the world, the entire world wouldnt be immediately drawn to it and stop what theyre doing? that itd be a complete mystery in the heart of the roman empire in one of the most well documented periods of human history? you think itd take 50 years for a secondhand hearsay anonymous account to pop up in an age where it took only 3 days for information to pass from one side of the empire to the other? its absurd. its absurd to think of divinity as something so lame and weak, that it could ever be mistaken for a jewish rabbi. how fucking deprived of spirituality do you have to be to even entertain such a notion? somewhere in the npc tier no doubt.
>>524893542Im naked under my clothes right now
>>524894860jesus' final words to a passing child?
