Behold, the gnostics, esotericists and mystery cults want you to waste 6 gorillion hours of your life online researching boomer-tier conspiracy theories and to read all about their dumb mythos they made up about themselves to seem like their gay cub is thousands of years old and how you should be paranoid and live in fear.And yet I will give you forbidden knowledge freely, because I want what is best for you and have no ulterior motives, other than the complete and absolute humiliation of the demonic host, in anticipation of their inevitable and eternal defeat and damnation to unceasing suffering.Here are a few examples:>there are multiple antichrists>the final antichrist will appear and claim to be "christian" but his spiritual fruits will prove him otherwise, though people will be duped by physical>love, faith, and trust are NOT ideas in your head, they are physical actions that must be manifested in the world otherwise they don't exist>everything real about faith is physically manifested in the world as well - God works primarily in reality, not in your mind - think baptism, the eucharist, Jesus' many physical healings>miracles are just God doing things differently - normally the laws of physics exist to give man a stable reference to the world around him, but God changing things for the better at the supplication of man (i.e. a miracle) is just reality working as intended and humans reclaiming our rightful place as divine stewards of the earth and being made to exist in constant communion with God>purgatory isn't real, it was made up by the vatican>angels and demons have the ability to send you feelings, emotions, and thoughts - whether you continue to listen to good or evil affects how much power they have over you
>>525785328>the purpose of life is to acquire God's grace, which just means His energy>the more grace/energy you acquire, the more healed your disposition is, and the more resistance God gives you to evil tendencies and the sinful passions>the end goal is transfiguration, theosis, the complete healing of human nature and uniting our will with God, sharing in His divinity by way of His grace/energy that He gives as giftsI could go on.
Source?>I just know ok
>>525785460Source is the 2000 year old One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded at Pentecost. You can ask an Orthodox priest about any of this and he will tell you, no need for insane masonic secret ranks of withholding information, you don't even have to become Orthodox, he will answer your questions anyway
>>525785328You're being a little disingenuous, we are a mystery religion even if we are upfront with the basics. The mysticism of hesychasm our dionysian traditions are decidedly esoteric. Just as St. Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexandria espoused, we perfected what the pagans had. There is more to spirituality than the physical.
I dunno, what if everything about life is just a chemical reaction. Like if we were given a big enough system and had the billions of years time we could recreate the creation of entire solar system and eventually observe how the full process of evolution leads to faggots like you claiming God is in control, when if God was in control why are there still muslims and jews? Or the countless other cultures and religions. Like this shit isn't forbidden knowledge or even political, its just bullshit. Unless you're advocating for the forced castration of muslims or something you're literally killing threads for no reason.
>>525785409Let's talk about suffering - why it exists - a little bit.Fundamentally, the reality is that man and the world is fallen because of the ancestral sin, which damaged human nature and severed our communion with God. Ok, most people know this or at least something like it. What they don't realize is that the world as it exists now (with all the suffering and violence and even death) is designed by God for our benefit, given we are immortal beings and He is trying to show us the eternal consequences of evil actions. There is one underlying choice that was made by Adam and Eve; that of disobeying God, wanting to do without Him, wanting to BE without Him, thinking to exist apart from He who is the very essence of existence. Because this is a paradox, an impossibility, God is trying to convince us, who have free will, that we have to be with God or else the alternative is an impossibility and therefore eternal suffering.Part 1/2
>>525785460It's experiential (and as such can be put to the test) and the general consensus of most mystical literature in the first thousand years A.D.
>>525786067Part 2/2Let's read the words of Elder Ephraim(+2019), who labored in America and founded the holy monastery of St Anthony in Arizona, among others. Listen to his words:"How much a person loses when he suffers and forgets his sonship, failing to realize that he is being disciplined as a child of God." (p. 13)"Trials come to teach us to become bearers of hardship, trained fighters, followers of Christ who was crucified for us, brothers of all the saints who walked the thorny path of the Cross… the faithful, through keeping the holy commandments and enduring the trials brought by the world, the devil, and the flesh." (p. 19)"Trials come to bring us closer to God, for tribulations sadden and darken the heart, making it soft, smooth, and humble." (p. 20)"He who bears his sorrows with joy and understanding is freed from his sins and their punishments. A spiritual mark is created within him; he becomes compassionate, humble, meek… But the one who lacks true understanding of his trials falls into sadness and depression when he should rejoice—for he walks the road of Golgotha with the saints." (p. 20)"Trials of every kind purify the person who accepts them with wisdom and understanding. Every trial that befalls a Christian is a divine visitation for his salvation, sent by the sweet right hand of our heavenly Father, even though our nature does not like such things—just as a sick man does not enjoy bitter medicine." (p. 23)"A doctor causes pain to a sick person—through surgery, bitter medicine, even amputation—not out of malice, but for healing. Likewise, God, the Physician of our souls and bodies, heals us through every kind of remedy, trial, and pain, to grant us spiritual health in the highest possible degree." (p. 33)
>>525786067Suffering exists as a biological defense mechanism to avoid death.
>>525785328>And yet I will give you forbidden knowledge freelyI'll do it first. OP is mentally ill KGB shill. And Gnostics were a pissed off sect of Judeans in Alexandria larping as Platonists so they could infiltrate the schools. They were also gay because the Daddyurge deity yahweh was defeated by Jupiter so they switched to worshiping EL's sister wife Ashura... calling her Sophia instead or Isis at times.
>>525786181Be a little hesitant on following the teachings of elders who are not yet saints, elderism can turn into cults of personality.T. Orthodox cleric
>>525785994>we are a mystery religion even if we are upfront with the basicsWe are upfront with everything. Nothing is hidden. By definition we are not a mystery cult. You sell Christianity short brother
If this shit is so forbidden, God should obviously just kill op for giving it away like this.
>>525786229Are you a chad neoplatonist?
The most famous burrito spot in Juarez is called after Chrysostom. Just leaving this little golden nugget of knowledge here.
>>525786229>>525785328Also note that the KGB runs the Orthodoxy of Russia. It is a money scheme and control mechanism or those who murdered the church. The KGB is REALLY into gnostic sex cults. Dugin and his minions flooded 4chan and twitter with these freaks trying to convert anons as another attack vector.
>>525785328Why chose this over Christianity?What does this give ypu Christianity does not?Are you too evil for Christianity?
>>525786340Well... yes and no. When I started seminary I was explicitly told not to read the philokalia as I wasn't ready for it yet. Later. I studied it when I was ready. That's esotericism by definition, and the mystic fathers go into concepts surrounding prayer and God you really won't hear in a normative parish setting.
>>525786229This is the kind of slop that I'm talking about. It makes an inquisitive mind want to spend the next 3 hours googling your word salad to pick apart the individual meanings and names.It's a waste of time, and you can tell it's all just a LARP because it doesn't amount to anything in the world at all. Nobody is better for knowing or espousing this slop mythos and fictional worldview. At best you get a nepotism cult.
>>525786379I'm an enslaved royal Scythian who will teach you the true meaning of neet life and the cowboy way.
>>525785328>you must work >work iniquity because you have the knowledge of good and evil >refuses to simply believe the gospel >he thinks Jesus going to the cross was a joke God pulled on Caiaphas God condemned religion when he allowed himself to be crucified by it. You wear robes, like Pharisee. You talk, like Pharisee. You tell people to keep the commandments, to work, like Pharisee. Religion, and the law are not your friend. It is merely fallen men, pretending to be good. The book at SEVERAL points, states no one is good but god alone, and everyone down here is a sinner. What use is religion, when 1 sin is fatal? You don’t need clergy you need Christ.
>>525785328>>525785409Yep, this is borne out by the philosophers who tell us always to look to reality and not ourselves, although it is easy to get trapped in your own mind/own reference frame, what goes on in your mind is not necessarily the Truth. Too often I get even Christ wrong because I have my own opinion.
>>525785994>we neeeeeed to be mysterious and gayTheres a reason the real warriors of light make fun of you retarded fights in the astral realm , trinkets and rituals and secrets mysteries are all dim candlelight to the bright shining power within your own temple/kingdom
>>525786291If you regularly read the lives of the Saints you'll realize he is just repeating what's been said in every generation across the last 2000 years. There is the generalized "mind of the Saint" that we can study and see that they all share this common outlook, common personality, common wisdom, and common knowledge/teachings. The more you study, and more importantly the more you experience through a successful lived spiritual life, the more you recognize this common thread and can pick out the eternal truths echoed by the sanctified in the same exact way across the ages.
>>525786557They should look up history and philosophy and work hard at dispelling the lies like a fucking detective, then look into occultism/Gnosticism to laugh at how they are a retarded primitive re-run version of historical research and philosophic writings for people who are sex pests.
>>525786067Suffering exsists because you have a brain that's able to put you in that state. Believing anything anything that has to do with religion is retarded imo. I don't understand why people need these institutions to live a moraly good life.
>>525786406Yeah the mkscow patriarchate are schismatic. They're messed up.>>525786426Kek, we are Christian, we are the oroginal, oldest Christians. The problem is that christianity has been so compromised that ypublook bacl at us and don't see yourself anymore. Believe it or not though, Orthodoxy is your original archetype.
Does the antichrist know that he is the antichrist?
>>525786707>>525786707>>525785994**faggotsExcuse my typo. I'm a retard. But at least I'm not a retarded faggot, like the mystery school niggas
If you are not GayYou are not white.Seethe and cope.
>>525786560>You wear robes, like Pharisee. You talk, like Pharisee. You tell people to keep the commandments, to work, like Pharisee.good point
>>525785328Orthodox fags are free to roam the wilderness and disavow life. You should be appointed to show up and speak every now and again, so that we may learn what faggots look like.
>>525786376It's not forbidden, that's my point. "Forbidden knowledge" is a meme to deceive you into being manipulated. In reality, the truth is plainly given. It is not always simple in the details but it is absolutely not hidden if you just ask an Orthodox priest.
This is all a load of horse cock, here's some actual hidden knowledge:>If you say you didn't get three wicked wings in your zinger box at KFC the staff will rarely question this and give you an extra one for free.>Birds make very specific calls for different situations. If you pay attention you can tell what animals are nearby just from listening to birds talk about them.
>>525785573Does this mean I have to convert to Catholicism? I've really been trying to avoid that
>>525786181Why would God create suffering in the first place? It doesn't make sense to me if he is All love. Is this life a test or battleground or like school for young souls to learn and grow? I have so many more questions than answers, and every answer gives me 10 more questions
>>525785409>uniting will with godUmm sweetie why would I want to be gods bitch?
>>525786426This is just normal Christianity
>>525786722Yes, this hollistic method of reading requires discernment that the average lurker on pol won't have.>>525786707I'm just saying that you need to walk before running, it's not like a greco roman mystery school, it's just a process of growth. You don't gove a kindergartener calulus, and you don't give a cstechuman the philokalia
>>525785328>"I'm gonna give you esoteric knowledge!">lists things orthodox christians believeI'm going to bed
>>525786543No... That's pastoral wisdom. Nothing is stopping you from buying the philokalia and reading it. Nothing is stopping you from asking your priest about the proper way to do the Jesus Prayer. Nothing is stopping you from going on a pilgrimage to a monastery and being in the presence of a so-called "mystic". It's not hidden behind masonic ranks and secret handshakes.
>>525786966He's talking about Eastern Orthodox, what he said is the true name of the Church
>>525786966All you need is God and Christ. You don't need a fancy building or fancy ceremonies. YOU are the church. Your body is the temple. Your mind is heaven (or hell) Jesus never said you need to get on your knees in front of a random old guy and let him put a small piece of bread on your tongue. Be a good person, ask for forgiveness, and your reward is above as it is below
>>525787150>>525786966 orthodoxy is better. Also the coptics and even the sufis have a branch in north Egypt that is sinilar to a christian gnosticism. I'd be wary of the catholic church, which has been hijacked. Read about the Whore of Babylon. I've been to the Vatican 5 times , it's FULL of lucifer symbology. The pope's throne is a giant statue of satan rising out of hell followed by his 200 fallen angels. It's wild
>>525786678>what goes on in your mind is not necessarily the Truth. Too often I get even Christ wrong because I have my own opinion.This is a HUGE point that most contemporary self-identified "christians" don't get. I think it is so prevalent because Sola Scriptura is the primary framework that a protestant operates on, and so everything is filtered through "my own interpretation" glasses, that they don't even realize they are wearing those glasses. Orthodoxy explicitly warns us not to have the spiritual pride to think we can understand everything, and to rely on people much wiser than us to teach and guide us.
>>525787185You arent entirely wrong, but 2 points. 1. For a lot of people the discipline and ritual brings them closer to Christ.2. If you read acts and the didache, the Church after Christ's ressurection had ritual and specific places for prayer. Hell, all the churches mentioned in the epistles are stilla round, and they're all Orthodox.
>>525787076What I want is more practical esoteric knowledge, something that'll help us day to day.
>>525787065Your saying your mystery school is used for a slow drip of knowledge so it is more digestible? Excuse me if this is the case, I was rashes and harsh in my assuming it was one of the mystery schools that just leads to butt sex and lucifer worship (unfortunately common in my country currently)
>>525786766Christianity isn't simply a moral code. It is the explanation of reality. You have no answer for how the world exists, why we are how we are, or what the meaning of life is. The best secular scientists can do is the theory of evolution, which is at best an extrapolation based on incredible faith in the model to the point that to accept it you are believing in something akin to a religious dogma.
>>525787065>I'm in a gay cult>Here's why that's a good thing...
give real tangible things, this is bs.
>>525786791... probably. Though some humans genuinely do not know that they are serving demons, they are so deluded. But the final antichrist will be like the sorcerers of old, in knowing communion with the demonic powers and Satan himself giving him power to deceive and work miracles.
>>525787346How about relying on the Holy Spirit instead? We lean on God's understanding, not on human understanding.
>>5257873961) absolutely correct and I agree2) a fair and good point, but if I may retort, as you say yourself, this was AFTER. I am not calling it incorrect , but in my view, all is secondary or tertiary or etcetera AFTER the resurrection and the final command, go and preach to all nations. I am not good at words, I apologize, I am trying to say I don't disagree with you, I'm saying in my view, all is secondary importance after that final command. If that makes sense , so if a specific building or specific ritual is important, I do not disagree, but as far as absolutely required to enter the kingdom of heaven, for my view, all that is needed is Christ, and all else is secondary (I could have worded this better I apologize but I'm close to sleep)
>>525787461Yeah that's the whole point, gotta make sure people don't fall pray to their ego, or bite off more than they can chew. It's not like any of ot is hodden behond rituals or further induction either, you just work woth a spiritual father to go at a pace tailored to you. Sorry to hear that, that's fucked up.
>>525786966Not roman catholicism, but Orthodox Christianity. Completely different than roman catholics, and any similarities are what they have borrowed capital from us originally before they split from the Church. "orthodox" just means "right worship" or "correct glorification" in Greek.
>>525787515Submit to Christ brother, you don't know how awesome is it to suck him off. Just suck him off bro. It's not gay, be the bride of christ that performs fellatio FIRST on the wedding night.
>>525787436Learn breath work, there are multiple ways, but start with a easy one, like the 4 second square. Get up to the golden ratio /fibonaccui sequence breath work. Do this, meditation, and pray, and more will be revealed to you from your own understand and consciousness, thus your truth and spirit will expand
>>525787694This is just a broad platitude that is vague. Orthodox Christians would respond by saying we do rely on God, the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity.
>>525787436Try to spend time in actual silence, learn to still your mind, this is very important for any kind of serious work.
>>525787797Interesting and intriguing and understandable. Thank you for that clear explanation I've heard rumors that the frequency in some of the orthodox chants are very powerful , rumors from multiple trusted sources In regards to your photo, if angels are around us so are demons. In deeper orthodox tradition and understanding, are angels and demons separate entities, or are these spiritual manifestations that are within us, and the spirutal warfare is within? Or outside? Or both? Lol sorry many questions at once but you seem knowledgeable about this subject
>>525785328>>525785409there are two forms of sin, sins against God and sins against man (yourself). The former is not done without the latter, if a son burns down his fathers house he lost a place to sleep also. guilt and shame are both sins, and anything that causes them. That does not mean "if I make myself into such an asshole that I dont feel guilt or shame for being a piece of shit then im golden", thats the kike line of thinking and it is very much in error. What it does mean though is that if youve done something that causes guilt or shame, it needs to be reconciled. i.e. dont go sinning, but if you do all is not lost while you still have time. >who gives a shit about sinyou should, if there is sin on your ledger then you are free game to any demon which wants to fuck with you. >>525786557one of the hardest lessons for me to learn was that it is good that ingrates are blind to the truth. Or, rather, I did not appreciate what that meant. There was a time where I saw it as "if only I could reach them somehow" damned near drove myself insane trying to figure out why it seemed impossible. Then one day, after struggling with that for quite a long time, I woke up and it was revealed to me, it is GOOD that they cant see, God closed their evil eyes for a reason, and striving to reach them is a fools errand that severely deviates from the example set by Christ.
>>525787504The theory of evolution is quite simple to understand and also quite observable in real life. Nothing crazy there. Also, why would there be a meaning to life? I personaly think there's no greater meaning behind it. We all just happen to be here because of a contextual reason that made it happen. As for yourself, if you need a meaning for life, why do you need a 2000 years old religion to give you some answers? Can't you just come up with your own meaning of life based on the lots of years you've been here?
>>525788059>the frequency in some of the orthodox chants are very powerfulYeah they make you bald
>>525786974Let's say you want your son to walk. But to do that, you have to let go of him at some point and let him stand on his own. But you know for certain he is going to fall down in the process of that (multiple times likely) and cry and it might hurt a bit. Same with riding a bike. Same thing comes with disciplining your child. I genuinely believe so many people don't understand that discipline is a loving thing to do because parents don't discipline kids in our generations.picrelated
>>525788122I have my phd in molecular biology. No scientist has believe in the THEORY of evolution in yearsEven Charles Darwin said at the end of origin of species (I'll paraphrase because I'm sleepy) 'I can not prove or disprove the theory of evolution, but it seems as if a DIVINE HAND is pushing along the progress of life and nature'
ORTHODOX KGB
>>525788122if live has no meaning then everything is in vain, whether you die or live means nothing, and everything only comes from and returns to nothing. Point to me where nothing exists that I may look upon this wonder of yours.
>>525788122It is physically impossible to trace it back in an unbroken link to the primordial goo evolutionists posit we all came from. It's a leap of faith. Observable changes in finches across generations does not equate to a gorillion years of evolution theory played out. It's an extrapolation at best, deception intended for midwits at worst.
>>525785328Finally, a real Christian thread
>>525788166I understand that, but your examples are in a world that is already fallen and broken, our world. What prevented God from creating a "perfect and easy world"?Or perhaps, as you can't have light without darkness, you can't have "good and happiness" as experiences without ALSO experiencing "bad and sadness", giving us a reference point? I agree with your last statement. My upbringing was interesting, as I was an orphan. I see friends in my life now fall apart at the slightest inconvenience. They tell me I'm strong because I can handle tougher storms. But I now the truth, as I have a feeling you do too, there have been multiple times in my life I've been brought down to rock bottom where thankfully God was waiting for me to find Him again.
>>525787618The Church is a real and tangible thing. Not roman catholicism (because I see your flag and you will not know what Orthodox Christianity is, only ever being exposed to vatican catholics)
>>525788344Oh, I would agree with that. But it's provable for species in the last thousand years. So, i'd guess if the theory is good for the last milions years let's say, it would be good for the other milions before that wouldn't it? If you're talking about the origin of first life forms on earth, I know there's a few theories but nothing official yes.
>>525786426Brother he is literally just an Orthodox Christian You don't understand Christianity if you think this is weird
>>525788457>What prevented God from creating a "perfect and easy world"?Cannot exist with free will.
>>525788561>So, i'd guess if the theory is good for the last milions years let's say, it would be good for the other milions before that wouldn't it?Subconsciously you're typing question marks because you're starting to see how much of an incredible leap of faith and jumping to conclusions the whole thing is. Not to mention that a thousand years and even a million years is absolutely finite compared to the billions and trillions they talk about, it's inconceivable. Some people will point to this as if it proves that because all that time happened, it was more time for random chance to bump things together until you get where we are now. But really that inconceivable amount of time means the leap is yet more inconceivable.
>>525788457Because the pain is for our good It's actually an extremely easy thing to understand You lift weights? Same principle
>>525788578That actually makes sense..... I'll ponder on that the next few days , thanks for the thoughtIf heaven is perfect, is there free will in heaven?The new testament mentions a new earth AND a new heaven (I only caught this recently) a new heaven? Why is a new heaven needed if the old/current heaven is perfect?
Good thread, good comprehensive answers.Now, we need to be able to explain to people that the faith they have, the churches they were brought up in (non-Orthodox), the ways their parents and grandparents believed are not entirely wrong. I know how it is, a very difficult conversation, not to throw them into despair and neither give them false hope about the question of Salvation outside of Orthodoxy. At the end of the day, it is truly not up to us to decide who will enter His kingdom.
>>525788790I don't know what OP thinks but there's no way that heaven wouldn't have free will, that's just absurd We aren't puppies being trained not to chew on slippers, we are children of God
>>525788344>It is physically impossible to trace it back in an unbroken link to the primordial goo evolutionists posit we all came from.Amino acids form into proteins by doubling up, and protien formed in the ocean as single cells organisms with similar behaviors. See pic>>525788251>Even Charles Darwin said at the end of origin of species (I'll paraphrase because I'm sleepy) 'I can not prove or disprove the theory of evolution, but it seems as if a DIVINE HAND is pushing alongDemocractus discovered evolution thousands of years ago, from sea to man,.,, and Darwin was just one scientists who wrote one part of it, sexual selection. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democritus>>525788409>Finally, a real Christian thread. It's a KGB thread.Real Christians don't hang out on a porn anime degenerate shit hole like this place.
>>525788790Order of heaven changes due to a number of celestial inteligences falling as stated in scripture with us replacing them. Also a double entendre because heavens also refers to the cosmos aside from earth.
>>525788265I live my life by my own set of moral laws. I value my self has someone who's able to dicern what is good and evil by myself. What I said about not thinking there's a meaning behind life, I had more of a general idea of the human presence on our planet. I think im general, people one who arent religious usually find a meaning for their own life. Could be big things or small every day stuff.
>>525788892Correct. Orthodox theology asserts free will within heaven.
>>525788561I think you misunderstand something that a lot of people do without deeper biological and genetic studies. So for example, the finches with the different beaks sizes, and the butterflies that look different because of the pollution from London (2 of the famous examples of the theory of evolution)There is NOT a change in the genetics in these examples. It may seem that way and certainly I believed it so. But what you learn in deeper science studies is that the difference is in the gene expression, the epigenome. To explain it simply, the genes are the same, but the "light switches" are turned on or off on different onesIf that doesn't make sense please tell me and I will try to explain better before I fall asleep Here's a simple proof. If evolution is real, it would have been monetized by now. Everything gets monetized somehow and someway. But why not evolution? Because it doesn't exist. The closest we got is some DNA manipulation via the CRISPIR molecule which helps rich people pick the babies eye color (again GENE EXPRESSION, not gene change or evolution or devolution)
>>525788955Can you kill yourself in heaven?
>>525788936Sounds stupidly subjective. Almsot anyone could justify themselves by that standard.
>>525788915Ah yes, the KGB wants us to be Christian Dumbass And why shouldn't we be here? This place is full of so many fascinating and niche perspectives on any topic you can can think of. Mostly just comedically bad takes, but still.
>>525788770One could argue it would be nice for God to have allowed us to be born jacked and swole then, yet the journey and the experience of finding God and Christ in the chaos of life is perhaps worth it all and more so, just like the pain and sweat of a workout at the gym outweighs the hardship. Like this?
>>525788790>If heaven is perfect, is there free will in heaven?We are enlightened and perfected by union with God. He says all things will be made known at the final judgement, there will be no misunderstanding. We will be illuminated to the full consequences of every single one of our actions. At that point, the only thing that would actually make you choose evil would be having an evil disposition/personality. But if you knew that one wrong word can have infinite awful ripple effects on your social circle, as the smallest example of such a thing as full understanding of consequences, why would any good-oriented person make a choice that harms another? It's enlightened free will, perfected by God's grace, God who is perfect. God also has free will, yet God is perfect, and this is not a contradiction.Go to an Orthodox Church and talk with people, talk with the priest, we actually care about this kind of conversation on deeper meaning of life.
>>525788916Do you happen to know the scriptures that mention us replacing their place? I don't ask out of disbelief, just for my own further research and understanding
>>525787742>but as far as absolutely required to enter the kingdom of heaven, for my view, all that is needed is Christ, and all else is secondary (I could have worded this better I apologize but I'm close to sleep)Of course, but the Catholic Church carries the torch from generation to generation about how to live the life Christ wants us to live. Without the Church’s teachings, Christs teachings become incredibly subjective. Consider the crazy liberal “Christians” who claim gay marriage is ok, abortion, transgenderism, etc. They all claim it’s biblical and that they’re guided by the Holy Spirit. Without the foundation of the Church, the teachings, and the Sacraments, the Bible can be abused and twisted into something totally different. Remember, Jesus left us with a Church, not a Bible.
>>525785328>>525785409i fail to see the difference between this and evangelical and all other christians since it's all mentally inclined towards ''happening'' especially as like it's in linear fashionthe heavenly order, like the earthly one, is itself an illusion
>>525789017Yeah that's (to grossly oversimplify) what a fallen angel would be. Killing yourself is hard when time isnt linear and death doesnt exist, but that would be the equivalent.
Encompass them completely, Pen them in like cattle to slaughter.
>>525788820They may have portions of the truth, just like a muslim and an atheist can acknowledge certain truths of reality. That doesn't make it any less necessary to be physically united to Christ in Baptism, and a member of the Church. What is salvation? It's not a ticket to heaven. Salvation is the transfiguration of the human soul, by a real relationship and connection and communion with the Holy Trinity. Nobody has this outside of the Church. At best you can muddle through and develop a good disposition through your choices according to what you know, but that is fraught with danger, it is so much better in the Church.
>>525789109"And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them."The process of acknowledging your weaknesses and following the right path to overcome them and become strong feeds the soul, it's the method by which we can become perfected.
>>525789013I don't think this is a good line of argument, have we not effectively commoditised evolution through the selective breeding of all the domesticated plants and animals we rely on? Don't some giant evil companies make customised breeds of wheat or other crops that are resistant to their weed killer or whatever? The problems with evolution are mostly around the rate of change and fixation rate of new genes.
>>525789124Tomorrow I actually begin a year long journey in Latin America. And I will lie talking about God and Christ. I will look for a orthodox church to talk to people for advice too. I know catholic churches will be more common in Latin America, but I will journey for an Orthodox community. I am both excited and nervous, because all of my life I have been a 'man of science and drugs and sex and sin', and my next words, I would have laughed and ridiculed me for this, but I want Jesus Christ as my best friend. I want peace and I want to be a good person and I want to help people. Money and sin lead me to ruin. Before I die, it is logical for me to at least try a different path. I have been selfish all my life. When I go to a orthodox church, I will remember you, anon, and my first question will be to ask how do I defeat my selfishness and anger and sadness
>>525789265Interesting, I’m pretty curious whether there is a path to complete nonexistence in this theology. But its hard to wrap your head around once time is nonlinear since you have to exist in some set period
>>525787185This is utterly false. All of it.>>525789087Because everything in this thread is spiritual deception. Nothing in here leads to salvation. It leads people astray and off the path to salvation.
>>525789124>At that point, the only thing that would actually make you choose evil would be having an evil disposition/personalityWhy would God intentionally make some humans to have this very disposition or personality?
>>525789192It's a tradition that actually predates scriptural canon, though certainly it's present in scripture.Luke 20:34-36And Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."1 Corinthians 6:2-3Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!"Hebrews 2:5-9 (quoting Psalm 8:4-6)For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. It has been testified somewhere, "What is man, that you are mindful of him, or the son of man, that you care for him? You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor, putting everything in subjection under his feet." Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.Revelation 3:21The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
>>525789486You're clearly not reading the whole thread
>>525789401Pray to the Holy Trinity, God, for wisdom, enlightenment, to lead you into all truth.https://isidore.co/misc/Res%20pro%20Deo/Prayer%20&%20Missals/orthodox_prayer_book.pdf
>>525786379Geocentric thinking, I like that
>>525785573>You can ask an Orthodox priestorthodox priests marry negros to whites btw
>>525789401*beNot lieWow. That was quite the typo. Maybe it is a sign that I should not talk about God and Christ until I have further understanding and knowledge, so I don't accidenntly led others astray..... very humbling lol>>525789400Good question, and you are clearly intelligent, and the evil company youre talking about is Monsato and they have DESTROYED the agriculture in my country :(((If you will please allow me to help your reasoning be more accurate my brother. Your thought is logical,however it is not a correct line of thinking. Cross species breeding to introduce new genetic combinations is not the same as a theory of evolution Ok here's an example: if I have one jar of peanut butter, and one jar of jelly, and mix these (species cross) I have a "new thing" if I put the jar of peanut butter and jar of jelly on the counter, and wait 1000 years, I mean yeah they'll change, sure, probably grow some mold and shit, but does the base foundation of what a jar of peanut butter is changes? No
>>525789450Yeah, I don't think there's any way to get to complete cessation of consciousness in orthodox theology given how we view time.
>>525789542You make yourself into it. We have free will. If you choose evil things you become more likened to and likely to do evil. If you choose good things you align yourself with good and it becomes easier to do good. Knowledge and experiences compound to shape our will. Can't teach an old dog new tricks, same principle but on the level of eternal immortal human soul
>Credit is a Time Machine
>>525789013I'm not that well versed in biological studies, the general idea of evolution does make sense to me. You can explain further if you're not sleeping and I'll look it up to on internet to give my self a better idea. Look here's a quick example I have that tends to make me believe the theory of evolution is real. Atlantic Salmon on the south shore of Québec can tolerate water temperature up to 18 celsius before dieing from lack of oxygen. Certain populations on the northshore, where rivershores have less trees and thus water being hotter in the summer can tolerate water up to 23 celsius before dieing. Wouldnt that fit the theory of evolution?
>>525789632We (Orthodox clerics in general) try to caution agaisnt it but we can't negate people's free will
>>525789394And the thing is, that is what I needed. Last year, I had "everything i needed and wanted" and man, I was very very close to suicide. I needed to be humbled
>The British caused Nuclear Proliferation
>>525789761There is physical and metaphysical constructs, that we move within.
>>525789486>This is utterly false. All of it.Yup. People who truly follow the comment you’re referring to leave the Bible completely up to interpretation. All of Christianity becomes subjective.
>>525789486You say every thing I said is false. Will you please give a retort on each thing I said and how it is false? If what I said is false, I want to be corrected and I want to know more
>>525789351I do understand that, but it is difficult having to explain to someone that their church is not The Church without sounding "elitist" or dismissive of their faith. Like saying that their Baptism did not count, since it was done outside the Church.I guess I'm just very uneducated.Or maybe sometimes it's easier to show by doing.Oh, that quote of St John Chrysostome is echoed by Isaac the Syrian, that makes sense.
>FDR's last election was 'fortified'. Fake 'isolationist' Wendyll Wilkie visited the USSR pre-war. Cousin Fucker's wife was pen pals with fake British accented Nathan Silvermaster of the eponymous spyring, only surpassed by the Rosenbergs & co., and J Pollard.
>>525789795Indeed
>>525785409Grace can't be "acquired" though. By it's nature grace is a gift that you can't demand
>>525789667Well thats unfortunate
>>525789486>Because everything in this thread is spiritual deception. Nothing in here leads to salvationyou have to understand accountability, and how you interact with moral forces, that in both policy and the person; salvation will come if your willing to accept that.
>>525789866Yeah... Sorry to say, but your baptism didn't count because it was done outside the church. There are things that require the authority of the true priesthood, holding the keys to heaven as were given to Saint Peter.
>>525785328
>>525789866>but it is difficult having to explain to someone that their church is not The Church without sounding "elitist" or dismissive of their faith.Yes, it is easier to show by doing. But I've found that if you have to use words, then try to illuminate what is beautiful instead of denigrate what is false. Remember you have the most beautiful treasure to show this person and you want what is best for them. Think about a kid who just got a new toy for Christmas, he doesn't show his joy by stomping on his friends' toys, instead he shows them his new toy with enthusiasm
>>525785328Where is the Void cult?WHERE IS IT?!?
>>525789038What do you mean exactly.
>>525789795There is form and substance, mind, body, and soul; there a correspondence with that rhythm to consequence.
>>525789922Could be, we'll see.
tl;dr... It's ALL in your mind
>>525789915Grace is acquired by drawing nearer to God. God gives grace to the humble, to those who are struggling to repent and draw nearer to Him. God cannot give grace to someone who doesn't want it, or at the very least is doing things that are apart from and not conducive to spiritual life. There are specific things that trigger God to pour out His grace; prayer is an easy example. But Orthodox Christians have an entire arsenal of ascetic & spiritual life that do this.
>>525788936>I live my life by my own set of moral laws.you have to have objective things, there is subjective things there in proportion to the person.
>>525790224it's not. it's very physical. look up "orthodox incarnational theology"
>>525789742No that's not evolution, no genetic change in the genome , that's adaptation, which is connected to gene expression, muscle growth, fat storage changesA change in tolerance is not genetic change in the genome, only the epigenome of gene expression. A smarter person can explain this better than me but I will try. I'm a nerdy causcian. Africans in Kenya have "better running genetics than me". Eskmos have better tolerance to not being a bitch in the cold than me. If we unraveled our DNA, we would have the same ≈32 billion-ish 4 dna building blocks, GCAT bases. After many thousands of years of breeding and lifestyle, the survivors and ones that produced the most offspring, have a higher gene expression rate for certain survival traits due to those specific environments or lifestyles, and this effect compounds on itself over time, until after many generations, the changes are noticeable. The two salmon you mentioned have the same genes, but perhaps not gene expression as a result of many generations of adaptation. I HAVE the same "running genes" as that one tribe of Kenyan africans that have like 95 of the best 100 long distance runners , but their gene expression of those genes will be way more pronounced than mine.
>>525790117You said you have your own morality based on what you consider right and wrong, and you judge this by your own sense of discerning good and wrong. I'm saying that that is essentially meaningless because someone with completely contradictory morals could justify themselves by the same loose metrics. At best you're reflective of the popular morality of your culture, and at worst you're essentially morally nihilistic
>>525789690Where can I learn more about the orthodox prayer?
>>525790227>that trigger God to pour out His graceYou're disgusting
>>525790261>objective thingseveryone has a heartbeateveryone has to take a breatheveryone sleepseveryone will wake upeveryone makes mistakeseveryone has a fatesome objective thigs I recall
>>525790023Did Jesus say this?
>>525789915It's not about demanding, it's a natural thing occuring. When you sit inside the dark room, by removing the drapes, clearing the windows, slowly and meticulously, more and more light comes it. Our "talents" do not refer to wordly skills, but to the spiritual gifts: patience, charitable kindness, prayer, etc etc, the more you practice something you're already quite good at naturally, the more you will be given. Grace is something that shows you that you're on the right path.
>>525789124>Go to an Orthodox Church and talk with peopleNah, I'm not a Communist.
>>525789591Thank you brother, God bless you>>525789576Thank you for helping me learn more ITT, truly bless you both
>>525790474>patiencepatience and actionvery importantthat something I always try to use
>>525790383Okay yes I understand, that makes it clear.
>>525790445It doesn't matter what anyone says they'll just make it up ad infinitum until it fits their particular level of cope.That's christianity.
>>525785328https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kbkysPTnHcSocial media has primed an environment where this type of degeneracy is not only accepted, it thrives. Social media desensitizes and radicalizes even moderates into believing heinous and abhorrent behavior is acceptable under the correct context. Spend just 5 minutes on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, you will find hordes of these deranged people. They exist among us. The FBI knows about them but never acts until it is far too late. Western society is on a one-way fast track to collapse as long as social media continues to destroy minds and decay the culture.
>>525790474>Grace is something that shows you that you're on the right path.you will in that journey find temptation from the world
>>525789742Also read my comment here about the peanut butter and jelly. That analogy sometimes help people understand a bit better than a lot of science words>>525789659
>>525790553>Twitter, Facebook, Redditthese things make people less accountable, hypersensitive, it causes people to think that social media pulls the weight, but the person does not want to pull their own weight
>>525785328>purgatory isn't real, it was made up by the vaticanBut you believe in the Eucharist?
>>525790414Number 1. Go to an Orthodox Church.Number 2. Here's the incredibly common "little red prayer book" in PDF format:https://isidore.co/misc/Res%20pro%20Deo/Prayer%20&%20Missals/orthodox_prayer_book.pdfNumber 3. Go to an Orthodox Church again, because and I stress this, we cannot do anything alone. More multiple reasons, everything in the Orthodox spiritual life is communal, guided, we need reference and an anchor, we need correction and accountability. So best way is to ask a priest, and talk with real Orthodox Christian people in person. "Nobody is saved alone"
>>525790511You thibk we all follow russia? They're one of 14 autocephalus chirches, and they're in schism woth constantinople. We don't have a central leader (though, shocker, Russia still tries to claim they're the leaders because of course they do)
>>525790474Grace given to the unworthy repentant is heavier and far more jovial than the grace given to the servant that always listens and followed orders.You can treat him like a machine, judge, or a law to follow. Or you can treat him as your father.
>>525790424Do you find my language upsetting? I didn't mean it negatively. God gives us the steps and the tools necessary to help us in our struggle against our fallen nature. It's plain in any self-examination that something draw you nearer to God than others. Unless you suggest that you can be an equivalent Christian drinking at a bar in a casino, as opposed to spending the evening in prayer. God gives grace to who? Obviously we can draw conclusions.
>>525790685Memes have a strange hold over some people. That has caused certain societal problems. Where people cannot interact properly.
>>525785328Shouldn't this be an x thread?
>>525790735>Number 1. Go to an Orthodox Church.>Go find a location to submit to slavery under my lesser deity. You cant make this shit up.
>>525790402>You said you have your own morality based on what you consider right and wrong, and you judge this by your own sense of discerning good and wrong. I'm saying that that is essentially meaningless because someone with completely contradictory morals could justify themselves by the same loose metricsWell, I agree with that. He could justify himself with the same metric I just used. And if he did something let's say wrong, I would adress the situation I guess?I would also agree I'm reflective of the popular morality of my culture more than being morally nihilistic. Arent most people morally reflective of their culture? I'm curious where you're trying to get to with this based on the previous things that I said about not needing religion to give me a sense of what's good and bad.
>>525790424forgot pic, maybe unrelated
>>525789849Sure, mainly for the sake of anybody reading this who's actually interested in salvation.>All you need is God and Christ.False.Baptism is necessary.John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 Being holy and doing good works is necessary.Matt. 7:21, John 15:2, Matt. 16:27>YOU are the church.False. The church is the Mystical Body of Christ.Matt. 16:18-19, Col. 1:18, 1 Cor. 12:27, Rom. 12:4, Col 2:19, Eph 4:15Only those who are validly baptized and in a state of Grace are living members of the Mystical Body of Christ.John 15:1-6>Jesus never said you need to get on your knees in front of a random old guy and let him put a small piece of bread on your tongue.The Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is necessary, biblical and comes directly from Christ himself.>"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever."John 6:48-58Only priests properly ordained in apostolic succession have the power to consecrate the Eucharist and to absolve sin (penance).John 20:21-23also, Acts 6:1-6
>>525790914>>525790866
>>525790532Glory to God
>>525785328is there any books you'd recommend in general or for a dummy to read?
>>525790983>"No You" shall be the whole of the lawIs there anything more based than this folks?
>>525790965Your reply doesn't add any value to the conversation or have any argument, it's just impotent seething. Demons are mad when Church is in forward advance in normal conversation with normal people
>>525790620yeah, this also makes sense.
>>525791040I do not have the energy left tonight to give you the proper reply your post deserves, and im thankful for your thoughtful response. I took a screenshot of the post just in case the thread is gone tomorrow morningIll go over the verses you mentioned and will ponder
>>525791118I do not do that anymore, I do not like the occult, I used to; it destructive to the person. I used to be into that sort of material thelema.
>>525791217I will say the Hermetic axioms, helpful to the person to keep a understanding of the world around them.
>>525791040Everything you said is true, according to Orthodoxy, though I didn't read every Scriptural quote given in support of said statements.
>>525785328Purgatory is the only logical conclusion.
>>525790866how does this contradict what I said in my two earlier posts? It doesn't. Utilizing our experience to draw nearer to God is not treating Him like a machine. Maybe you should humble yourself and practice withholding judgement and not sperg out with "disgust" at another Christian as soon as you hear a few words you don't immediately gel with.
>>525785328WHERES YOUR SUMMA THEOLOGIAE ORTHOBROS
